Dan Wilson

On this week's episode I sit down with the wonderful and talented, Dan Wilson. We discuss everything from our recent Shakespeare work to our intense nostalgia for Blockbuster.

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You can find more info about my work as an actor and voiceover artist on my website at: www.johnmaddaloni.com

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
This is a cold read of French Without Tears by
Terence Radigan, in which I willbe reading lines from the play,
and Mr.
Dan Wilson will be improvisingaround those lines.
I will be playing Jacqueline.
He'll be a version of Diana.
Yeah.
It will be a Diana.
A Diana.

(00:20):
Here we go.
Hello!

SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
Aren't you aren't you getting dressed?
Of course I am.
Just give me a second.
Oh, do you like it?
Oh, what you're wearing?
It's fantastic.
I mean, that color on you is soflattering.
Oh, I suppose my hair's wrong.
No, no, no, no, no, darling.
It's perfect.
Don't change a thing.
I've got something to say toyou, Diana.

unknown (00:42):
Oh.

SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Do you mind if I say it now?

SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Uh, well, we're kind of in a rush, um, but I guess.
Yeah, go ahead.
We have like two minutes.

SPEAKER_00 (00:50):
If you look in that basket over there, you'll find a
needle and thread.

SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Okay, but what does that have to do with anything?

SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Oh, but you needn't trouble.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
We don't have time for this, but I'm looking in the
basket.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
I've overheard your conversation with the commander
this afternoon.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
Do we have to get into this now?
Because we're supposed to be atbrunch.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09):
I heard you say that you were in love with the
commander.
I and that you didn't love Kit.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
I never okay, what I said was.
What I said was that thecommander has some very fine
qualities.
I I could see him being a greatpartner.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
I I I wanted to know if you were going to tell Kit
that you didn't love him.
I l I do love Kit.
What are you saying?
Yes.
Well you did.
You've known for some time, andyou've had a lot of fun out of
it.
Yeah.
I have.
Thank you.
Ow!

SPEAKER_01 (01:46):
Stop.
Freaking me out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
Are you going to tell him?

SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
I'm I there's nothing to tell.
Why do you keep driving this?

SPEAKER_00 (01:53):
I shall then.

SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
Jacqueline.
Jacqueline, you forced my hand.

SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
Yes, that's true, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
I want to get into this right now because it's
really sensitive for me and wedon't have time.
We're supposed to be at brunch.

SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
Well, thank you so much.
That's splendid.
So you want to leave Kit alone?

SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
You know, Kit's such a sweet guy.
He's just I'm just not feelingthere's no vibes anymore.
I'm just not feeling it.
But you don't.
I have to go with my gut.
But what about the commander?
You know, have you seen Love isBlind?
It's like on Love is Blind.
Sometimes you're vibing withsomebody and you just don't know

(02:34):
what you want, and then somebodyelse just comes in and sweeps
you off your feet from behindthe weird lava wall, and you
just Oh, that's a horrid word.
What, lava wall?
Oh no, I don't deny that at all.
You know, Jacqueline, I actuallythere's a big weight off my
chest now that I've said this.

(02:54):
I I really I was trying to keepit a secret, but it it probably
is better that that we just wejust you know w w rip the
band-aid off, as it were, alittle bit.

SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Well what you call my gifts are at any rate social.
Yours are definitely antisocial.
And that's a reading from FrenchWithout Dears.
I was like that Lionel buttonthis scene, for sure.
For sure.
That was very good, Dan.

(03:25):
Thank you.
That actually worked probablythe best cold read is ever gone.

SPEAKER_01 (03:29):
You know, I I was really waiting for it to go
completely off the rails.
But it actually stuck prettyevenly.
I'm a little disappointed.
You wanted it to be morechaotic.
Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Sometimes you have to improvise the scene you're
in.
Yeah, no.
Sometimes it can just be,sometimes it's just real.
Exactly.
Welcome to Working Class X.

(04:14):
Hello, and welcome to theWorking Class Acts Podcast.
I'm your host.
Dan knows.
You heard him just there, butthis person that I am with right
now is a lovely, lovely humanbeing and a wonderful performer.
And finally, we just got to acttogether for the first time,
like within the past month.

(04:36):
He is an actor, director,writer, and filmmaker living
happily in New York City.
His favorite acting creditsinclude Under the Greenwood
Tree, the Flea Theater, aworkshop of the Backeye, City
Company, Hamlet, ShakespeareTheatre Co.
in the fan uh MFA program, andhis recent short films are Hero
Work and Cool Dad.
Dan is currently directing ashort film about a pregnant art

(04:59):
thief planning her biggestheist, and has been workshopping
a new adaptation of TwelfthNight with Living Room
Productions, which is where wegot to work for the first time.
It's Dan Wilson, everybody.
Hey, Dan is here.
Oh dude, I'm so happy you'rehere.
This is gonna be so fun.
Um, but yeah, we got we got towork for the first time together

(05:19):
on 12th night, which was so fun.
Like the workshop we did theother week was it was really
cool, really, reallyinteresting.
Um, I don't know how much we cantalk about it.
I don't like I don't want togive anything away because it's
a great premise.

SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
But we don't have to go indepth.
Um, but just to say, so I I Iknow I could share that in my
bio because um I asked Ellen,who runs the workshop and is is
uh the founder and artistdirector of Living Room Pro
Productions, um, along with uhLaura and Sue, um, I believe are
her both of her collaborators inthat.

(05:51):
Um and anyway, she was like,Yes, you can mention it.

SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
Um, because I have I just haven't said like a lot
about it because I think thepremise is cool.

SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
It's a really cool premise.
Um Ellen has done an incrediblejob.
Yeah.
Um and uh and hearing a fewdifferent versions of it has
been really cool.
And then finally like getting towork with her as a director has
been really sweet.

SPEAKER_00 (06:12):
Absolutely.
We just last night were we'reboth very tired today.
Uh we were up late doing anotherreading for another play last
night uh through Living RoomProductions, which has been
really it that community hasjust been so fun to get together
with.

SPEAKER_01 (06:27):
It's it's like so fun.
You know, it's really the ideaof getting together for readings
and stuff is really nice, andI've tried to make that happen
in the past more casually.
It's hard to do, and it's alsolike so group dependent, I
think.
Yeah, yeah.
And like you can have people whoindividually are lovely and you
love hanging out with, but itlike the group dynamic may not

(06:48):
quite and I think what um whatEllen and company have kind of
not curated because they're notlike like meticulously selecting
people, but just like the peoplethey know and the people that
they bring in.
Yeah, um, it's been a reallynice energy every time.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
So, Dan, yeah, tell me, bring me back to the
beginning.
Show me where were you when youcame into this world.
Um where were you born is thequestion.
Oh, this the literal world.
Or just like into the world.

SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
Where did you grow up?
Um yeah, short version.
Um a lot of parts, but um, I wasborn um just north of New York
City, actually, uh in inWestchester County, in Mount
Kisko, New York.
Okay.
Um and uh I don't remember it atall.
We moved when I was like most ofus don't remember when we were
born.
Yeah, but like I didn't even geta chance to remember Mount Kisko

(07:39):
because we moved out veryquickly.
Um my my mom's work kind of hadus move around a lot.
Oh um, and so we moved to uh Ithink Washington DC next, which
I barely, barely remember thathouse, and then like kind of
rural New Jersey.
Um and then when I was I thinkfive about to turn six, we moved
to Seattle, which is where Igrew up.

SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
Got you.
Wow.
So you just popped around alittle bit and then all the way
to the other end of the of thecountry.
Yeah, totally.
Exactly.
Did you like Seattle?
I loved Seattle.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
I've never been.
It was so nice.
I mean, um, I think I think it'sprobably changed a lot, as most
cities have, between since the90s, you know.
But like um, we lived in areally cool part of town.
Um, I just have such fondmemories.
Like, we lived off of a main welived off of Broadway.
So if you know Seattle, ifyou're listening, we lived off
of Broadway on Capitol Hill,like very close to the main

(08:33):
strip of Broadway.
Um, and we also lived really,really close then to Volunteer
Park.
Okay.
And we actually had a littlelike back entrance to the park
that like was like a littletrail you can kind of sneak up
into from where our um our housewas.
And so just being able to likewalk to places in a in a city
that like the neighborhoods arewalkable, the city is not

(08:55):
walkable in the same way NewYork is walkable.
Sure.
I think was really, really nice.
Nice.
So I have really fond memoriesof that.
One of one of the highlights Iremember is like um we used to
do like movie nights um as afamily uh when we could on
Friday nights.
Yeah.
And we'd always we would alwaysorder pizza from Paliacchi
Pizza.
Oh, Paliacci.

(09:16):
Which shout out, like, if you'rein Seattle, you know, like it
was at least at the time, it waslike so incredible.
Like you had to get Paliacchi.
Yeah.
And then and then there was aHollywood video store.

SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
Yes! Oh, I miss Hollywood videos so much.

SPEAKER_01 (09:31):
And we could we would I would walk down with my
dad on like a Friday after hegot back from work, and we would
go to pick out a a movietogether, and then we'd walk
back, and my mom would get homefrom work and we'd order pizza,
and and um, and I think that isprobably a good jumping off
point because that is where Ikind of fell in love with
movies.
Yeah, yes, and and the same yearI think, or maybe the next

(09:54):
summer, the Lion King came out.
Oh my god, and um, I dragged mymom to see that in the theater
like I don't know, three, fourtimes that summer.
And um I still have my probablynot my first stuffed animal, but
but um the oldest stuffed animalI still have is a cymbadol.
Oh my god, yes.
Um and um so I I just rememberalways loving like the feeling

(10:17):
of being in a theater and thelights go down, and like just be
f after the previews, but beforethe movie starts, there's like a
moment of calm.
Yeah, yeah, and it's dark, andit like the screen is black, and
it's just this lovely littletransition into like a whole
other world.
Yeah.
That I think you get that intheater too, usually depending
on how the decide to start theshow.

(10:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, but but it just in film forwhatever reason that's just hit
like extra hard for me.

SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
Totally.
No, I totally feel that it'sthat lovely like anticipation of
like what what world am I aboutto go into?
And oh my god, Hollywood video,I miss Hollywood video so much
because uh I had like thesimilar sort of like uh like
that was like my home for likeme and my brother and my just my

(11:05):
family, like we'd go there allthe time.
We would like go to church andthen we'd go and get like a
bunch of movies from Hollywoodvideo, and I miss it so much
because it was like this likethe Hollywood video near where I
lived was like kind of grungyand just sort of like I mean
they're not prettyestablishments.

SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
Like, and this is the thing is is that Blockbuster
was obviously ubiquitous, yeah,yeah.
Nothing wrong with Blockbuster,yeah, but like it always felt a
little bit like um like kind ofslapped together and plastic and
like too clean.
Yeah, yeah.
Even down to like the coloring,like the blue and white was very
sort of clinical almost.
Yeah, it really was.

(11:44):
Whereas Hollywood video was likewhite and black and red.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like I I I might be making thisup, but I remember there being
like a really shitty carpet.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (11:55):
And like it's like people died in in these
Hollywood videos, but no onegave a shit.
They were like, it's like it hadto be movie-related.
Like this person watched a moviethat was too good and died.
But it yeah, there was somethingabout it, it was just so like
there was just it was so filthy,but also like you could find
anything in a Hollywood video,and you just stumble across

(12:16):
things.

SPEAKER_01 (12:17):
And and I miss that more broadly in the streaming
era that like you you can tryand do that digitally through
like going through catalogs, butthen you have an algorithm
that's trying to suggest stuffto you, and it's not the same.
And I just I do kind of misslike in the way that you can
still do it bookstores, yeah.
You can kind of go to likewhatever genre you're interested
in and kind of just fumblethrough the title.

(12:38):
Exactly.
And I think you could do that ata video store in a way that was
really fun, and like I don'tknow, I think we still not to
get too woo-woo.
I'm a little bit woo-woo, butlike I think you you get like an
energy from when you like picksomething up.

SPEAKER_00 (12:52):
Totally.

SPEAKER_01 (12:52):
Um, and or like you you go in person and try on
clothes, and it like it mightlook good, but how does it feel?
Yes, it's like a reallyimportant thing.
And I think you get a little bitthe same thing by going to a
library or a bookstore tryingtrying out how does it feel to
hold this thing.
Yeah.
Um, that carries a certainenergy.
And I think um, yeah, I thinkit's like something that I don't

(13:15):
I'm not nostalgic enough to wantto like buy a DVD player and
like buy like fill up my smallapartment with a ton of DVDs.
So many DVDs.
I mean, good for you.
Like, nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 (13:25):
But I think there's so mad at me right now.
What an idiot.
Trying to cover it, but John.
I just want to open my ownHollywood video, is essentially
what I want to do.
But that's so astute.
I I never really thought aboutit.
Like the the way that you gointo like a bookstore or or like
go to a clothing store and trystuff on it.
Like, yeah, that that was exactit's the same exact premise, but

(13:46):
it was for movies, and it itthat just doesn't exist anymore.
Not really.

SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
No And you don't get um you don't get what one of my
favorite things about DVDs andVHSs was you would get previews
of other movies.
Yes, yes.
And and um, like again, beforelike any sort of algorithm in
Netflix or HBO or whatever, likethat would be how they'd be
like, okay, let's pair thispreview with this movie because

(14:12):
they might, you know, and thestudio could advertise their
other stuff.
And I think um you you justdon't get that same thing.
It's one of the things, again,that I like actually about going
to the movies is the previewskind of like absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (14:27):
But what I loved about that too is like with the
with with DVDs and rentals, likethose previews are then on that
DVD forever.
So they don't they don't updateor anything, obviously.
But it's like it's a little timecapsule though, which I I kind
of love of just like, oh, thesewere the other movies coming out
around this time.

SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
These are the DVD menus and the music that they
choose and the way they chose tolike lay out the menu.
Yeah.
And it like it's such a it'ssuch a thing that um like again,
I'm I'm like we could talk aboutthis for literally hours.

SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
But no, but I'm like, I love it because I think
there's just this one story.
I don't think I've told this onhere, but it's a reason why I
love Hollywood video.
And like uh so one day my dadand I went to go to Hollywood
video, and I wanted to rentAmerican Gangster.
Okay.
It's the Denzel Washington moviefrom a a while back.

(15:24):
They didn't have it, and so mymy dad was like, all right, they
don't have it.
And and then, but the guy behindthe counter was like, you know,
I could suggest something that'slike American Gangster, and I
was like, okay, what?
He's like, you should watchnumber one gangster.
If you've never seen number onegangster, it is like legit one

(15:46):
of the most violent films, likegrotesquely violent films I've
ever seen.
It's got Paul Bettney in it.
Um Paul Bettney.
He's fantastic.
Yeah, like I love Paul Bettney.
Um, but my dad, the I think theonly reason why I was allowed to
rent that movie was because PaulBettney was in it, and my family
were like huge um Knights Talefans.

(16:07):
And that was our first, he's sogood in that movie as Chaucer.
Um but that that just like it'sstill ingrained in my mind, this
movie, like the the violence init.

SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
How old were you at the time?
Oh, I was young.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
I was like, I can't, I couldn't have been more than
14.
Okay.
I was like too too young.

SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
Like kind of just old enough for most people to
like maybe be able to handle it,but also yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
And my parents were chill enough that they were
like, you can watch R-ratedmovies, it's fine.
Like my dad my god, anotherstory.
My dad, when I finally was like,I'd like to watch Saving Private
Ryan, he's like, Okay, you canwatch this.
It's an important film, but justknow they use a lot of bad
language in this movie.
And to this day, um, he net hedidn't say anything about like

(16:55):
the D-Day invasion will behighly graphic and terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 (17:01):
Just that the language was what it's so
interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (17:04):
It's so interesting.
It's such a generational thing,I think.

SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
Because I don't I I've never minded language in
films.
Yeah.
Um I I've already cursed on thispodcast.
I will undoubtedly curse a lotmore.
Oh yeah.
And um it's the but the thingsthat got me were never the
things people thought would getme.
Like the language never botheredme, the the the themes I felt
like I was already not always,but but from early on, pretty
able to like deal with maturethemes.

(17:28):
Sure, sure.
Um the thing that was mostterrifying to me in a film for
years and years was the uhkitchen scene with the
Velociraptors from JurassicPark.

SPEAKER_00 (17:39):
Really?

SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
I mean, it's a great it's a it's a highly suspenseful
scene.
It's so well shot.
I don't know how they did thedinosaurs so well in that film.
And they and I feel like they'vegotten worse in the whole other
conversation we can get into,but like that scene is is
genuinely scary.
Yeah.
And for me at least.

(18:00):
And like the T-Rex in the rainchasing the car was never scary.
It was just awesome for me.
It was just wild.
And and um but that for somereason, like the tension, yeah.
It's not the like the thing ischasing you, it's the thing is
looking for you, yeah.
Highly intelligent and like isit gonna find you and the quiet

(18:21):
of it of it all.
It's like um the way they drawout the tension in that scene, I
think, is really brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
Also just like the way they the the raptors
communicate with each other,with the like with the like the
the talons and stuff, like it'sthe intelligence.
Yeah, it it's and it's suchsmall little things, but they it
it it implies what you'resaying, the intelligence of this
creature.
Uh oh my god, we could talkabout this for ages.
Um so anyway.
Anyway, what where when did youget the bug?

SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
So yeah, so when did you feel like in stages?
I feel like I know a lot ofpeople for whom it was like, I I
went to see this play, or like Idid my first show, and and I was
hooked.
Sure.
And I think for me it was verygradual.
Um, like so the we got the loveof movies, Jurassic Park, Lion
King, etc.
Um, anything also by the waythat John Williams um he's a

(19:11):
genius.
Like and he picks projectsreally, really well.
Yeah, so like chances are it's avery good film and I love it.
Um so but then I actually hadterrible stage fright in
elementary school, um, to thepoint that like I I just I I I
didn't want to be anywhere nearlike being in front of people.
And um in when I was in whatfourth grade, fifth grade?

(19:34):
I we had to be in the schoolplay.
Oh really?
I think I was fifth grade.
It wasn't made you do it?
Yeah, it was because it was lesslike a drama club type thing.
It was more like a classproject.
Sure, sure.
Um and and it was I think partof the like sort of I've always
gone to schools that were notexplicitly art schools, but have
a heavy arts component.
Right.

(19:54):
Which I think has been reallygood um for me.
And so like they did a they dida weird, I don't know why they
changed it because I think it'spublic domain, but they took
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfsand they changed it to Joe
Knight and the Seven Serfs.
I don't know if they were tryingto teach us about medieval like
uh like peasantry or like thefeudal system, maybe they were

(20:16):
Europe or something like that,yeah.
Some commentary about likemedieval Europe feeder and sort
of like politics.
Um I don't know, but that's whatthey did.
Yeah, I was the mirror on thewall.
Oh, classic.
And it's a big part.
It's a big part.
Um well, it's a small part.
So I was actually like, I canhandle this.
Sure, sure.
And I'm only on for like onescene in the beginning.
Yeah.

(20:36):
Um I I sang one song.

SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
Joe White.
Joe Joe Knight.

SPEAKER_01 (20:41):
Oh, Joe Knight.
Um I sang one song to the themeof uh Old McDonald had a farm.
Oh, classic.
Um, and then I was offstage therest of the day.
Anyway, this was something Icould handle.
Um the school, it was like asmall private school, they had
an auction.
Um, and one of the auction itemswas you could go to one of the

(21:02):
parents' houses that had like abigger living room, and there
would be like a sort of buffetdinner, and you could watch the
kids perform the as like anexperience.
Sure.
So like raise money for theschool.
So we did that too.
Um uh there was no backstage inthat space to speak of, of
course.
Because it's someone's livingroom.
So you're just standing off tothe side.
So um my parents came and theywatched it, and they were really

(21:23):
nice.
And after the show, my mompulled me aside and said, Oh my
gosh, honey, you were so great.
I'm so proud of you.
By the way, did you know youwere mouthing every other
person's lines the entire playwhile you were standing off to
the side?
And I had no idea I was doingit.
I had memorized the whole play.

SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
That's so funny.
But that's like uh that's thatthing of like, you know, when
you're young and you're firstgetting into it and stuff, and
you you that's just one of thosethings, yeah, you know, like
that like it hints at like howpassionate you are about it.
Like you knew the whole play.

SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
And I think that was the first so like I tell that
story because.
I think even though it took me alot longer to like fully commit
to I want to do this as a as alifestyle, as a career, I think
that was the first point where Iwas like, oh, I have some
aptitude for this.
Sure.
It's enjoyable.
It's not as scary being on stageas I thought it would be.

SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:14):
Um, so then from then on, I was just like every
year in school, I would do, youknow, I would do a theater class
and I really enjoyed it.
And so then I'd be in the playthe next semester and I really
enjoyed that.
And then um, I think aroundearly high school is when I
started taking classes outsideof school and doing like summer
plays with Seattle Children'sTheater.
Um, shout out to them.
They're an incredible uheducation department.

(22:36):
Um, I think that was a big dealfor me.
And then later in high school, Igot uh into an acting class
there that um I met my firstlike acting teacher.
Yeah, um, our theater teacher atNorth at the Northwest School,
which was my high school, wasincredible.
Um Laura Ferry, and she was suchan incredible teacher.

(22:57):
Um, and then uh Alban Dennis,I'm just gonna name drop people
you don't know.
Do it, do it.
No, I think they're important tome.
Yeah, absolutely.
Alban Dennis was um my teacheroutside of school, and he really
was the first person I think whopushed me really hard.
Um, and then in college, Ididn't even think I was gonna be
a theater major.
Yeah.
I ended up transferring into thetheater major.

(23:17):
Gotcha.
Um, and even then I trieddirecting, I tried scene design,
I tried fight choreography, Itried almost every department.
Wow.
And I just when I wasgraduating, really settled on,
you know, I enjoy all of this.
Um I ended up doing carpentry uhfor theater as like a day job
for a little while.
Oh wow, cool.
But I was like, I really want tofocus on acting.

(23:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Um so it took it it was like aprocess for me.

SPEAKER_00 (23:42):
Yeah.
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
There's this constant debate, right?
Of like, should you focus on onething as an artist or should you
be open to doing multiplethings?
Like you said, like you'reyou're experimenting with
writing and like as well asacting.
And I I think um for whateverreason I was like, I have to
focus on one thing or else I'mnever gonna get anywhere.
And I look, I think it's justdown to whatever works best for

(24:46):
you.

SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
Absolutely.
And I think I it's it'sinteresting.
I think as the years have goneby too, especially over the past
like decade and uh or like thepast two decades in particular,
I think there is something toopening yourself up to all the
different avenues that exist,like being writing or doing
backstage or whatever, likewhatever you're you are

(25:08):
interested in.
It only helps you be a morewell-rounded person and like
artist.
Yeah, I think so.
When you understand like all thedifferent things, all the
different elements that comeinto play, I think it just makes
you also just a better performerbecause you can respect like
okay, I've I've worked inwardrobe or whatever for a
little while.
I understand like why this isn'tuh, you know, like like what

(25:31):
quick changes have to like howthey how they operate and like
all the things that go into it.
It only helps you as an artist.

SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
Yeah, and I think it's like it helps you as an
artist in your own craft, and italso crucially helped me
appreciate other people's work alot more, yeah.
Even when I didn't understandthe nature of that work.
Exactly.
Like I don't I'm I am whollyunskilled with like lighting
design and costumes.
Just things that I've neverreally understood, like how you

(26:02):
even begin to to to come up withan idea.

SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
Lighting in particular, I am like it is it
in both theater and in film,television, like it is such an
art form.

SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
Yeah, yeah, because it's it feels so kind of
nebulous in a way.
Yeah.
Um, but I I think just throughseeing the the things people can
make with light, for example, umI have so much more respect.
Yeah, and so much more patience,I think, like in tech in a in a
play or on set, um, like waitingfor lighting to to get their

(26:33):
thing right because it's such ahuge part.
And I think as a younger actor,I I don't think I was ever like
super selfish, hopefully,fingers crossed.
But I think I was a little moreself-centered.
Oh, sure.
Because I didn't understand likesure you were absolutely.
I meant but I meant that more oflike when you're younger, you
just don't know.
But I think I no, but seriously,I think I just didn't really

(26:54):
have a an appreciation for ohwhat you're doing is just as
vital to the experience of theaudience as what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 (27:03):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
And I think it's easy when you train hard in one
discipline to be like, oh well,what I do is the most important
because it's the most importantto me.

SPEAKER_00 (27:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
And it is like what I should take the most
responsibility for and the mostagency and for sure, but not at
the expense or the detriment ofthe whole experience.
Yeah.
I think that's been sort of ifyou like want to sum up like how
I try to how I try to approachmy work is like it is it is much
more about this project beingsuccessful than it is about how

(27:32):
good I look.

SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:34):
Um, I think that not only is best for the production,
but I think that also when Istop thinking about how well I
can do my job, I end up doing myjob better.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
You know?
Exactly.
And it's like that, it's likealso that thing of like if
you're watching a movie and likesomething is out of place, if
the lighting is off or there'slike a weird like set thing,
like all of these things, likethere's a reason they take so
much time to like position thesethings because when they are out
of place, your eye immediatelygoes to that thing and goes,

(28:06):
what's going on back there?
Or whatever.
It's it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
Although I will say to to go back to something you
said earlier aboutperfectionism, because I'm
working on a short film rightnow, yeah.
Um, that I am writing anddirecting, and I've been
watching movies not only with aneye to the performance, yeah,
but with an eye to like, how dothey like this?
How do they shoot this?
Yeah.
And then I notice so many moreimperfections because I'm

(28:32):
looking for, not looking forthem, but I'm more like opening.
You're more attuned to it nowbecause it's in your head for
your own project.
I just recently pointed out tome.
I've been watching some likeYouTube videos on like how
certain directors do things andhow like if you look at some
incredible movies by incredibledirectors, there are like huge
inconsistencies with the way thelight is, from like shot to shot

(28:53):
in the same scene that I'venever noticed before because it
still works emotionally for whatthe character's going through
for the moment in the movie.
Yeah.
Um, and so I think like it isimportant to get all those
things like technically good,but also if you're if you're
telling a good story and you'resupporting the emotional life of

(29:16):
whatever's happening on screenwith the protagonist or whoever
it is you're watching, it itkind of also doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
Which is something I love about art, is that it can
just like technical skill isvaluable, absolutely, but but
there's something else that'smore important.

SPEAKER_00 (29:34):
Yeah.
It and there's also something tolike the just the mess.
Like, so I think there's likethere is authenticity in a mess,
you know, and and and uh this iswhere I get on my like my little
soapbox here, because like withAI, I don't think it can
necessarily understand that.
Like beautiful mistakes thathappen when you're creating are

(29:56):
like is the creative process,and that is what we find human
about art.
Yeah, and AI can't constructthat, it can't construct you
can't construct a mistake, youknow.
Uh it it so it always feelsplanned, and that's why you can
always kind of tell.

SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
I mean, I I think like obviously there's been a
bunch of talk about AI, but Ithink where I land on it these
days is like it's just like anyother technological advancement,
like when people startedcreating um computer graphics,
we've already talked about withthe dinosaurs in in Jurassic
Park when they stopped, or inStar Wars, when they stopped

(30:34):
using practical costumes andstarted using CGI.
Yeah, um, not that CGI can't bedone well, it definitely can.

SPEAKER_00 (30:40):
I think it but it needs to be like complementing
the story.

SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
My point is that it can still be done super badly.
Oh yeah.
And so like it's like any othertool.
If you use the tool well, it'llbe great.
If you use it badly, it's gonnabe shit.
Yeah.
And and like people are stillmaking practical effects in
movies.
Yeah.
Like 20 something years afterthe advent of computer effects.

SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
I mean, just look at Frankenstein.
Yeah, Del Terra.

SPEAKER_01 (31:06):
Frankenstein.
Um, and um, and more and more prdirectors and and
cinematographers, I think, afterhaving gone hard into the oh, we
can do all these things withgreen screens and and and and
computers, are like, well, youknow, you're still missing
something.
Yeah.
When you do that, I think we'reactually gonna come back more
and more to the effect that thata real live thing can have.

(31:27):
And I think it's been the samewith like when you started being
able to make digital art andlike drawing on your iPad or
whatever, people were like,Well, why would I draw on a
piece of paper or paint?
Yeah, but people still do thatall the time.
Like, I think the same thing iswith AI.
Like, yes, you can get AI tocreate content for you.
Yeah, and I think it has itsuses, even in the creation of
great art.

(31:47):
But I just don't see peoplegiving up on, you know.
I mean, I think people who runbig studios who have their heads
up their asses potentially aregonna be like, oh well, this can
be a replacement.

SPEAKER_00 (32:01):
Because it's all for because they want it's for the
sake of money.
These days, yeah.
And and they're just any toolthat creates that form of
efficiency, they're gonna grabat.
And at a certain point, it justgoes like, well, what's the

(32:22):
product anymore?
Is the product the product, oris it just the notion of getting
something out before some anyoneelse?

SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Exactly.
And I don't think it's againdissimilar to like a
mass-produced print on a I don'tknow.
I don't want to disparage likepeop people that design prints
and and t-shirts and stuffbecause that can be an art form
in itself.

SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
But like No, Dan is coming for you all.

SPEAKER_01 (32:41):
But like uh if it if it's something anything
mass-produced, yeah, that it'sjust a different thing.
I don't think it ends upreplacing art.
I think it is a differentcommodity that you're buying.
Yeah.
So like if you want to buycontent that's created by AI, I
don't think philosophically Iactually have any problem with
that.
Because I think it has its uses.
Um, but I think people-made artis always going to be relevant.

(33:07):
Yeah.
And I do think it's important tolike fight for that and make
sure that that art doesn't getripped off by AI.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, but I think that AI can beused as a useful tool, just like
anything else we've invented inthe history of humanity um to
make great art.
Yeah.
Provided that we don't assumeit's gonna do all the work for

(33:27):
us.

SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
Yeah.
I think that is very astute.
Mike drop.
Who's Mike?
Um I was gonna say that like allart forms that exist can
continue to exist so long aspeople have a passion for them.
Yeah.
You know, like when the pandemichappened, um, I remember
everyone being like, theater'sdead, it's never coming back.

(33:50):
And I was just like, the theaterhas survived the the black
plague and like so many otherthings in television like it's
not going away.
It I think it's if your visionof the future is gonna be bleak
for something, then it will bebleak for that thing.
But if you have a passion forit, it will stay alive.

(34:13):
I mean, we're all back, we'rewe're still making theater now,
albeit like Broadway has becomelike wildly commercial, and I
think it could do with somemore, you know, but it's new
works.

SPEAKER_01 (34:26):
But it's been through wildly commercial phases
before.
Yeah, yeah.
It's also always been commercialtwists, of course.
Of course.
Right.
But like I just I I feel thepain of like as a so as someone
who many actors right now Ithink are feeling like there's
not as many jobs to go around,it feels like.
Definitely.
Um and also numbers-wise, therejust aren't.

(34:46):
Um, it feels more like assomeone who like has no name
recognition at all, like the theroles that I used to maybe be
more considered for are beingfilled by people who now have
more TV credits than I do.
Yeah, and the roles that theyused to get considered for are
now being filled by people wholike have even more of a career,
like it's sort of a trickle-downeffect.
Yeah.
Um, all that's true.

(35:09):
That said, um, I think that ithas been true before and it will
be true again in the future, butthere will be periods where it's
not true.
Yeah, it's all kind of a cycle,and I think we just like you
just said, we have to we have tounderstand that what we do has
value beyond what money you makefrom it.
It has value um always.

(35:31):
Yeah.
And it has value not only toother people when you get to
share it, but it has hadtremendous value for me as a
person.
Yeah.
And whether whoever gets to seeit.
Yeah.
Um, and so I think it's hard tohave patience uh as an actor a
lot of the time.
But I think I try to cultivatethat patience as much as

(35:52):
possible.
And then I also think havingother artistic interests um both
related, like like creatingfilms and doing the workshop we
talked about, um and making workwith other people is one, but
also like having artistichobbies and having other
artistic interests, yeah.
Having it's an old, annoyingthing to say, I think, but like

(36:14):
have a life outside of being anactor.
But it's true, it's true.
But I think I think that the thekey to that is not doing it just
because somebody says you shouldhave a life outside of being an
actor, but just like getting toknow yourself better, I think is
a better way to go about it andsay, okay, like this is an
important part of my life, it'salways gonna be an important
part of my life, but like who amI the rest of the time?

(36:35):
Because even if I'm even if I amlike the busiest working actor
ever, there's still gonna belots of downtime.
Oh, yeah, and I want to be ableto enjoy that time with other
things.

SPEAKER_00 (36:48):
Yeah.
I think that's so true.

SPEAKER_01 (36:52):
Second mic draw.

SPEAKER_00 (36:54):
I think it's interesting.
Going back to what you were justsaying, though, about like the
the sort of cycles of of whatBroadway is going through.
If if you want to hear greatconversation, episode one of
this podcast, season one,Britain Cybert.
Right?
I said your name correctly,right, Britain?
Because I know I fucked it up onthe first episode.
But she she made a really astuteremark of like all of the I

(37:17):
think the pandemic in particularhas really spurred the like this
weird sort of like shift in whois getting cast and what roles
on in theater right now.
And I do think that over time itwill shift back to how it used
to be because theater used to bea space where you could really
start your career.

SPEAKER_02 (37:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
Um, and then move and get then move into film and
television where more you knowthe big bucks are.
Yeah.
But like right now, we are inthis weird little like anomaly
of like you can only be onBroadway or in these things if
you've already done film andtelevision, because I think
producers are are scared aboutyou know getting a return on

(37:58):
their investments and stuff likethat, and fame from certain
actors and actresses like canguarantee quote unquote a
certain return.

SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
There was a recent interview that I only heard
snippets of that Carrie Coon.
Carrie Kuhn, yeah.
I knew you were gonna say it'sso good, everyone look it up,
it's great.
Um, but but I I first of all,Carrie Kuhn, fantastic um actor.

SPEAKER_00 (38:19):
Um Carrie, you want to come on?
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
I mean, you're doing very well.
You you have a lot of people.
I don't know if you're a workingclass actor or anymore, but like
I'd love to meet you.
But so that to the point shemade in that interview, right?
She was like um ta talking aboutbeing in bug, right?
Yeah.
Um, and and how you know she wasbeing very open with the

(38:43):
interviewer saying I know, Iloved it.
I would I would genuinely nothave been considered for this
level of production um had I notdone Gilded Age and White Lotus.
White Lotus, yeah.
Um, and and the interviewer Andno no shade, like was kind of He
seemed kind of flummoxed.
That like that would be thecase, um, because I it sh

(39:06):
necessarily shouldn't be thecase.
Well, I think But I think it is,and I think a lot of people
don't don't realize that um forfor better or for worse or or
just whatever, that is kind ofthe environment that we're in as
actors right now.

SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
Well, also it's like it's the the thing that like
made me go, like, really?
What from the interviewer?
Um, and not trying to be rude oranything, but it was just like
it there seemed to be this senseof like meritocracy involved
with it, yeah.
And where it's just like, but wedon't live in a meritocracy.
Like, I know so many fuckingtalented actors and actresses

(39:38):
and performers, yourselfincluded and myself included.
Yes.
Where it's like we haven'tgotten to have our big break or
whatever yet, even though Ibelieve all of these talented
people that I know, myselfincluded, are are capable of
being at that level ofperformance.
Yeah.
Um, and it's tough because likefame has always been a part of

(40:05):
our industry.
It does have an effect, likestar power, as it's been quoted,
is is a real thing.
It's never not been a thing.
Yeah.
And it is a business at the endof the day, so it's like I get
it.
It's just I go and then likecircling back to the
conversation of like theaterused to be the place where you
could start your career, and itfeels like we're it we for

(40:30):
myself I feel a little lost.
Yeah.
Like, where am I supposed to gonow?
You know, like it's like so theonly place I can think of is
like create my own work and getit out there as much as possible
because it seems like all theseother avenues are kind of being
blocked again where you used tobe able to sort of succeed.

(40:50):
Yeah.
Um, not to put a downer on theconversation, but it's just it's
I think this is a temporarything.

SPEAKER_01 (40:56):
But I think it's important to acknowledge that at
the same time.
Yeah, yeah.
Because I think I think therecan be such a culture to I'm
sure this extends to otherartist communities, but I'll
talk about actors because that'swhat I know most.
That uh you just have to thinkpositive and and like really
like, you know, don't don't makeany excuses and and uh and then

(41:16):
it's easy to kind of bounce backand forth between like yes, I'm
gonna make it happen for myself,yeah, to then severe depression,
frankly, of like oh, it's I I'mtrying so hard and nothing's
working and it's just nevergonna happen for me.
And I think the truth is as asusual, somewhere in the middle.
Yeah.
That like it it's important toacknowledge that like, yeah,

(41:37):
there are industry factors thatare kind of working against us
given where we are in ourcareers at the moment.
Um and also there's enormousopportunity to to collaborate,
to create your own work, yeah umand um and keep doing the thing
in some way.

SPEAKER_00 (41:52):
I mean, that's why this has become like my year of
yes.
I'm just trying to say yes tolike every possible reading that
comes my way.
When people think of me, I'mjust like, I I have had to get
over the sort of egotisticalside of me that's been like, no,
I I deserve to be paid more forthis, or what it's like, no,
just just do the work and havefun and like and and mingle with

(42:38):
other artists because you neverknow when someone might hit
their big break and they'relike, I've been thinking of you
for this part or whatever.
And it's like oh thank god Isaid yes to all these things and
like chose to be a part of thesecommunities, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (42:51):
And also like when you're working on a project
you're developing on your own,like on it works the other way
too.
Exactly.
You then know all these peoplethat you're like, oh, you know,
this this thing I I I want toput together a reading of that
I've written, yeah, this personwould be great, and I wouldn't
have met them had I not said yesto that thing.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (43:14):
This is yes, no, and sometimes why.
This is where I ask a bunch ofrapid fire questions, uh, the
answers to which are either yesor no, and then every so often,
intermittently, when mycuriosity is piqued, I will ask
why, and Sir Dan will answer.
And these questions werecompiled from teambuilding.com.
I always feel an obligation tomention them.

(43:36):
I don't know if that websitestill exists.
That's great.
But they're uh there's some funquestions.
Exactly.
Um and each round the questionsget harder, I guess.
Sort of.
They just get a little morethoughtful, I guess.
Um here we go.
You ready?
No, but go for it.
Do you have a second job?

(43:57):
Yes.
Are you afraid of the dark?

SPEAKER_01 (43:59):
Uh no.
Do you bake?
Uh yeah.
Why?
I mean, I b I I occasion I Icook much more.
I occasionally bake.
Um it's just not as much of athing as cooking.

SPEAKER_00 (44:11):
Yes.
Yes, chef.
Yeah.
Um that's an inside joke, bros.
Have you ever broken a brone?

SPEAKER_01 (44:18):
I have not done that.

SPEAKER_00 (44:20):
Um, do you have a brone?
Do any of us have a brone?

SPEAKER_01 (44:24):
We all have an inner brone.

SPEAKER_00 (44:25):
Um have you ever broken a bone?

SPEAKER_01 (44:28):
Uh yes, but it was like a stress fracture, so not
really.
Oh, okay.
Uh have you ever had stitches?
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
Why?

SPEAKER_01 (44:36):
Uh I I'll try to make this short as possible.
I um I worked in a museum aslike a museum tour guide for a
while.
Really?
There was yeah, ages ago, therewas an exhibit that I had to
sort of prep before people camein every morning, and in the
exhibit was a metal staircasewith like an open bottom.
Oh.
I was underneath it, and I justwas in a rush and I turned, and
the a corner of the metal stairsscratched up my head.

(44:58):
Oh, Jesus.
I mean, heads Yeah, they bleedlike.
Crazy gross you out, but like soit was it was um gushing
everywhere, it was reallyuncomfortable.
And yeah, they had to take me tothe ER.
I mean it was fine, it wasn'tthat deep, but I had several
stitches, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
Oh my god, I almost got a stitch.
I'm not sure if you can see it.
We'll do a zoom in.
I have a tiny little bit of ascar.
I I got this 12.
Um, I fell off the back of mycouch.
This was Christmas Day.
I fell off the back of my couchonto a Hot Wheel set and um a
garage, and it just like burstwith blood.
And my dad drove me to thehospital and we got there, and

(45:34):
he's like, Yeah, you're probablygonna have to get stitches.
And he was like, Let me see itagain, and we like took off the
thing, and he was like, eh, no,it's fine, let's go home.
And so I did I almost gotstitches.
Never got stitches.
Do you know how to swim?
Yes.
Do you like spiders?

SPEAKER_01 (45:48):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (45:49):
Have you ever been to summer camp?
Yes.
Do you have any imaginary do youhave an imaginary friend?
No.
Have you ever caught a fish?

SPEAKER_01 (45:56):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (45:57):
Why?

SPEAKER_01 (45:57):
Uh, because I was made to go fishing once, and I
despite despite having caughtthe biggest fish that we ended
up eating that night for dinner,and it was delicious.
The the time spent on thefucking boat did not justify.
I I if you like fishing, the I'mso happy for you.
I'm sure there's a great Ipieces out there in the side.
I don't like being on the water.

(46:18):
Yeah.
I get kind of seasick.
You're trapped, which I don'tlike.
The feeling of being trapped.
Um, I know like drinking andfishing can be a thing, but I'm
not that big of a drinker.
So like I just was like, this isdelicious, and I would much
rather have bought it from thestore.

SPEAKER_00 (46:33):
It would have been much faster.
Yeah.
Let someone who enjoys it do it.
Uh fantastic.
That's round one.
How are we feeling?
Uh great.
Feeling good?
Yeah.
Ready to get back in the ring?
You make me feel like Ishouldn't feel as good as I
feel, but yeah, sure, let's doit.
No, you're doing great.
Round two, here we go.
Okay.
Do you like riding motorcycles?
Never done it.

SPEAKER_01 (46:53):
Would always have would like to, but never.

SPEAKER_00 (46:55):
Really?
Yeah.
I I think I'd like it to try ittoo, but I don't know that I
would ever stick with the issue.

SPEAKER_01 (47:01):
I just like I've I've seen too I've driven by too
many motorcycle crashes wheresomeone just is on the ground
not moving.
Just lost their head.
Um, and um, I just I would loveto like take a course in it
maybe and learn.
Sure.
Put it on my resume, maybe.
Oh yeah.
But um, no, I don't uh Do youhave any hobbies?
Yeah, so many.

SPEAKER_00 (47:19):
Do you believe in ghosts?
No.
Are you watching any new TVshows at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 (47:22):
Yes.
Why?
Uh because that's what you do asa person in 2026.
Um, it's true.
You just watch TV.
Uh yeah.
Short short answer, we'rewatching uh The Traders.
Oh shit, yeah, we were talkingabout this last time.
Taskmaster always.
Taskmaster so good.
Uh I'm kind of half watchingBridgerton along with Kylila.
How is that?

(47:43):
I mean, I know it's got a hugefollowing.
Like uh like I don't think I'dsit down to watch it.
Um but uh but it it it has anappeal for sure.
Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 (47:52):
I've never I've I just haven't gotten into it, but
I know a lot of people love it.
Yeah.
Um have you ever gotten aspeeding ticket?
Yes.
Have you ever lived in anothercountry?

SPEAKER_01 (48:01):
Uh no.
I mean you can't study abroad,sure, but no.
Do you speak more than onelanguage?
Yeah, I guess.
Really?
Why?
Yeah, I I speak Spanish.
I did not as well as I used to.
I used to be like not quitefluent, but but actually pretty
close.
Yeah.
I've just I've just been out ofpractice for the last like two
decades.
Yeah.
I've been meaning to pick itback up again because I learned
it in high school.
I use it once in a while and itkind of comes in handy, but not

(48:23):
that much.

SPEAKER_00 (48:23):
I feel like I live in this uh I well, I shouldn't
say where I live, it's just incase.
Fuck it.
I live in Washington Heights.
Yeah, find me.
Um a lot of Spanish speakershere and a lot of Spanish
speaking people in my building,and I'm like, I should learn
because everyone is so lovely inmy building.
Um and I would just like to getthem.
Uh are your brothers and sistersannoying?

(48:44):
I have none.
So no.
Do your parents ever embarrassyou?

SPEAKER_01 (48:48):
Uh not really.
Why?
Um, they're not like I haveissues with my parents, as
anybody does.
Sure, sure.
Um, but I love them dearly.
And um and they're just they'renot like super loud, um, like
super outspoken people.
I just don't think they havevery many opportunities to be
embarrassing.
Sure.

(49:08):
Um Fair enough.
Yeah, they're great.
Have you read any good bookslately?
Yes.
Why and what?
Um well I wasn't even gonna waitfor you to ask.
I know you're just gonna goright into it.
Some of these, like at the end,are not really yes and no.
Um yeah, fair enough.
I um just finished Gideon theNinth by Tamson Weir.
I hope I'm pronouncing your nameright.
Um, because I know you'relistening to this podcast.

(49:29):
Absolutely, he's a huge fan.
She, John.
She, she.
I was testing him.
Uh from New Zealand.
Um it's a it's a sci-fi fantasybook about necromancers
exploring a haunted Gothiccastle in space.
Fuck yes.
I need to read this.
And they're queer and it'sgreat.

(49:49):
Fuck them.
And um it's it's not only superfun, which is why I picked it up
off of a recommendation, but thethe prose is actually, I think,
maybe the best prose, like thewriting itself is so gorgeous
and so unique of like any sci-fibook I've read.
Yeah.
Genuinely, like, I think it'sbrilliant.

(50:10):
And I'm halfway through thesecond book in the series, and
it is it is messing with my mindin the most satisfying way.

SPEAKER_00 (50:16):
Oh my god.
Yeah, you've sold me.
I gotta, I gotta read that one.
Highly recommend.
Alright, that was round two.
How you feeling, Dan?
I think I'm How you feeling?
I I think I'm crushing it, butI'm not sure.
Like, when am I gonna startreally fucking?

SPEAKER_01 (50:29):
Round three is very uh it can get existential.
They are existential.
It just feels like the endgamestages of hot ones right now.
I'm like I'm like getting to thethe debom section.

SPEAKER_00 (50:40):
Yeah, I'm like there's some hot sauce over
there you should drink, and uhyou can answer the questions.
Alright, ready?
Yeah, let's do it.
Do you believe in an afterlife?
Yeah.
Why?

SPEAKER_01 (50:50):
Um, instinct.
Um, but I don't I have no ideawhat form that afterlife takes.
Sure.
I'm also fully aware that thatmight just be a comfort thing
and it might not exist.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 (51:02):
Would you ever start a romantic relationship if you
knew for sure you were bound topart ways in three years?

SPEAKER_01 (51:09):
I don't know.
It's hard to say because I'm ina relationship and it's just so
hard to imagine startinganything.
Yeah.
Because I've already done it.
Thank you very much.
Yeah.
Um if I knew I want to sayprobably yes.
Yeah.
And I probably at this stage,like if I'm trying to imagine,
um, would know that I'd be sogutted when it ended, but I'd

(51:31):
probably do it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (51:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I'd say yes too.
If you could find out how youwere going to die, would you
want to know?
No.
No.
Thank you.
You're the th I feel like I'veasked that one a couple of
times, and people have said yesalmost every time.
Because here's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 (51:49):
I'm like, what?
Here's the thing.
It'll be very comforting if itis like a quick way or like a
peaceful way.
Sure.
But if if it just on the offchance that it turns out you're
gonna die, I don't I don't wantto describe anything horrible,
um, but just like something sopainful and slow and
excruciating.
It's just like I I I'm justgonna be worried about that for
the rest of my life.
Like, when is that gonna happen?

(52:09):
And yeah and how bad is it gonnabe really?
I don't want to know.

SPEAKER_00 (52:12):
Yeah.
Agree.
Do you think you will have anyregrets when you're 90?

SPEAKER_01 (52:20):
Uh I think so, but I'm going to and why myself.
Um I think regret is perfectlyhealthy.
Why myself?
Why?
This is important to me,actually.
Like I why all of these.
I I think um regret is perfectlyhealthy and natural.
Yeah.
And I think this narrative oflike you should never have any
regrets is ridiculous.
If if we weren't supposed tofeel regret, if we weren't

(52:42):
supposed to feel regret, wewouldn't be able to feel regret.
Yeah.
Um and so I hope that I hope Idon't have any like massive
regrets when I die, but I thinkI think I probably will have a
few.
I already have a few that I knowI'm not gonna be able to go back
and change.
Yeah.
But the fact that I regret thosethings, ha once I've kind of

(53:03):
accepted that, has helped me toappreciate the things I have
more.
Yeah.
And I think has contributed tomy growth as a human being.
So um so I think I will, and I'mokay with that.

SPEAKER_00 (53:12):
I love that answer.
And with that, that is roundthree of yes, no, and sometimes
why.
Sir Dan.
This was so fun, dude.
I'm so glad you could come onthe pod.
Um anything you'd like topromote?
Anything you're working on thatyou you want to put out there?

SPEAKER_01 (53:29):
Um, yeah, I'd love to.
Um Thanks, John.
Um take it away.
So um this is I'm gonna startkind of gross, I guess.
But um, this isn't evenpromotion.
I just want to shout out uh mymy wife and partner, Kylila
Hobby, who you've had on thepodcast.
She's amazing.
Um, she's amazing.
Uh I'm so happy to be with her,and she's an incredible artist.

(53:50):
Um beautiful.
So I feel like I have to shoutout the most important person in
my life.

SPEAKER_00 (53:55):
Um and she is the pregnant woman in your short
film that you were gonna.
Yes.
Which sounds like that.

SPEAKER_01 (54:01):
So I should definitely talk about that.
So, yes, Kylila.
Um we're expecting a baby.
We're really excited.
Um I'm so excited.
I'm gonna be an uncle guys.
Uh crazy Uncle John.
Um, but uh yeah, so the shortfilm um that I'm uh preparing to
shoot is called Heist Film.
Heist film.
Um Kylila is starring as apregnant art thief.

(54:23):
I love it.
Um who wants to pull like herdream heist before she gives
birth.
I love it.
Um and we have a wonderful, asalways with great heist films, a
collection of characters who areher team.
And it's all people that I knowand we've worked together
before.
And um uh it's my directorialdebut.
It's the first script I've everfinished.

(54:44):
Love it.
Uh and I've written severaldrafts of.
Um I will be directing andshooting it with a small crew,
um, and they'll all be in it.
And um I'm really psyched forthat.
Uh so I will hopefully maybe Ican like send you some stuff to
put in the show notes.
Please.
Um, but we will have anInstagram live um soon.
It's um heist film production.

(55:06):
There you go.
Um we have a we'll have acrowdfunding page which you want
to donate.
I would love that.
But uh also if you just want tocheck out the promo video and
see and see what it's about, umthat would be great as well.
Um so definitely shout out that.
Um that's been really satisfyingand fun to work on, by the way.
I'm super excited to be gettingback to like film.
Um and then yeah, I mean, youalready mentioned it, the 12th

(55:28):
night workshop that we've donewith Alan in the living room has
been really spectacular.
Um I'm gonna be in a reading inuh western Massachusetts.
Oh, fantastic.
With Sarah Wolf, um, who's in uhwent to grad school with her.
She introduced me to Kylila andis an incredible artist.
Um, she is directing a readingof King Lear.
Oh, great.
Which we're gonna do just forone night in Northampton.

(55:50):
Nice.
Um her company is called CadentShakespeare.
Cadent.
Mm-hmm.
Nice.
Um and it's a collaboration withJunkyard Shakespeare.
Um, and uh they're all amazingpeople, and King Lear is my
favorite Shakespeare play.

SPEAKER_00 (56:03):
Love it.

SPEAKER_01 (56:04):
Oh my god, Dan, thank you so much for coming on
to the podcast.
It's so fun.
Thank you, John.
Always fun to spend, man.
I also should just say on an endnote, John interviews all these
amazing people, but John ishimself an incredible person.
I'm gonna lean into the camerafor this one.
John Mattalone.
I know John Mattalone throughKylila because they went to NYU
together.

SPEAKER_00 (56:23):
I I'm just not even I'm getting this camera.
Your profile while I'm just likegiddy.
Let's frame this intentionally.
I'm sure it'll be perfect.

SPEAKER_01 (56:33):
And um John is not only an incredible human, as I'm
sure you've been able to tell,but an incredible performer.
Oh, thanks.
A great actor, an incrediblesinger.
Oh, thanks.
Oh my god.
Um and um so like fun andtransformative, and it's been a
delight getting to work with youum on uh several things
recently.
Um I'm so happy.

SPEAKER_00 (56:56):
I'm so it's really satisfying.
It is so satisfying.
Shout out to Ellen Heald uh atLiving Room Productions.
Thank you for like bringing meon to your TV.
I feel like you're gonna have tohave her on the podcast now.
Oh, I tweeted about her so much.
I'm pretty sure I have sent heran invite too.
Um, but thank you.
It's been such a blast doingthese readings and and
workshops.
Totally.
Um, but that's it, y'all.

(57:17):
This is the that's the end ofthe episode.
So we'll see you next week.
Yeah, bye for now.
Bye bye.
Bye bye, bye bye.
Bye.