Devin Kessler

On this week's episode I sit down with the incredibly talented Devin Kessler. We discuss everything from her work on Godfather of Harlem and the new Crystal Lake TV series to her childhood desires of being "the first at..."

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_06 (00:00):
Alice, can you come in here?

SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
Brad, why do you need me in there?

SPEAKER_06 (00:05):
Chancellor our cat our cat Chancellor has been
pooping all over the the theapartment and look, this is your
cat.
I I don't want to like say it'syour responsibility, but I kind
of feel like it is yourresponsibility to clean up after
Chancellor.

(00:25):
So if you could help with that,that would be great.

SPEAKER_02 (00:30):
Do you think that I would clean up after Chancellor
after I just got my nails done?

SPEAKER_06 (00:38):
Uh uh Yeah.
I would expect that.
I mean, I mean it's Frankly,fuck off.

SPEAKER_02 (00:47):
I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_06 (00:49):
God, that seems very rude to say right now.

SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
Ha ha, kidding.

SPEAKER_05 (00:58):
I believe that.
I believe that's the hardestpart of doing the alphabet.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
Uh yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
Just so you know, I did use your credit card for the
manicure and it cost 200, but Iwill absolutely clean up after
Chancer, our cat, Brad, saidAlice.

SPEAKER_06 (01:25):
Okay.
Um now this is another issue.
You're using my credit card topay for your manicures.

SPEAKER_02 (01:35):
Love.
Yes.

SPEAKER_06 (01:39):
You're right.
I should be more forgiving andmore.
We're a teen.
I need to remember that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
Nascent is a word that I need to remember to use.
I was reading the word of theday dictionary and I have no
idea how to use nascentorganically.
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 (02:00):
You're learning new words.
That's that's great.
That's great.

SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
That is great.
Particularly the word thatstarts with the letter N that is
also something I sort of said.
No.

SPEAKER_06 (02:16):
Quite frankly, I think that's great.
That you're learning new words.

SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Really?

SPEAKER_06 (02:22):
Seriously?

SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
Thanks.

SPEAKER_05 (02:27):
You got it.

SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
Vikings are landing in New Amsterdam.

SPEAKER_06 (02:39):
Whoa, the news has gotten crazy recently.

SPEAKER_00 (02:43):
X.

SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
X marks the spot where the docks once stood in
New Amsterdam since the Vikings.

SPEAKER_06 (02:58):
You okay, Alice?
We could turn the news off ifyou want.

SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
Definitely not.
Definitely not.

SPEAKER_06 (03:04):
Ah.
And that is how you play.
Alphabet gay.
Alice and Brad have some issueswith their cat chancellor.

SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
Yeah, Alice, um Alice has issues, actually.

SPEAKER_06 (03:19):
Well, Brad's a Brad's not very kind to who I
presume is now is his uhpartner.
It felt like partner.

SPEAKER_02 (03:28):
Yeah, I feel like, but I feel like Brad was just
extra patient.
And Alice might have been goingon several trips at once.

SPEAKER_06 (03:35):
Fair enough, fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 (03:36):
You know, I think that Alice manicure trips.
Manicure trips.
I think she also may have eatensomething on the way to the
manicurist and then eatensomething on the way back.

SPEAKER_05 (03:46):
Oh.

SPEAKER_02 (03:47):
And then forgot that she had a cat.
That was her responsibility.

SPEAKER_05 (03:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Um, remembered that she had a goal a long time ago
to be more literate.
There you go.
And and articulate.

SPEAKER_06 (03:59):
So she I love how deeply you are now thinking
about Alice's backstory.

SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because Brad, Brad, you just,you know, you were there.

SPEAKER_06 (04:06):
Brad's a homebody.
He's, you know, he's at home.
He doesn't like the smell of thecat, but I mean This is furthest
from the truth for me.
I love cats.
I and I'm though I'm allergic.

SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
I'm allergic to cats.

SPEAKER_06 (04:17):
Are you allergic too?

SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
I am.
I want to love cats so badly.

SPEAKER_06 (04:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
But I can't.

SPEAKER_06 (04:23):
Oh, but you you don't love them.

SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
I I can't because I'm allergic to them, but I do.

SPEAKER_06 (04:26):
But a hypoallergenic one.
I had a hypoallergenic one.
Here he is.
My sweet boy, Ari.
There he is.
That's a I love that painting.

SPEAKER_02 (04:34):
Ari was in the last apartment.

SPEAKER_06 (04:36):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (04:38):
I actually never had a problem with Ari when I was
over there.

SPEAKER_06 (04:41):
Did you ever you never saw him there?
No, I did.
I never had a problem.
Oh yeah, he's chill.
Yeah, hypoallergenic.
Russian blues.
Welcome to Working Class Acts.

(05:10):
Welcome everyone to the WorkingClass Acts podcast.
I am your host, John Matalone.
I always do a little pause.
I do a jazz hands.
I am joined today by a superbactress.
She's a New York-based artistand a true DMV girly.

(05:31):
She can currently be seen in MGMPlus's award-winning series,
Godfather of Harlem, as a FennyShakur.
And starring in A24 andPeacock's upcoming series,
Crystal Lake, which I believe isa prequel to the Friday the 13th
series.
Oh my God, so exciting.
I am here with Devin Kessler.
There's your phone back.

SPEAKER_02 (05:53):
Devin, how are you doing?
I'm good.
Good.
I'm good.
I'm well rested today, which isfantastic.
Yeah, it is fantastic.
Honestly.
Honestly.

SPEAKER_06 (06:02):
After the years of NYU not sleeping much, it's
great to sleep a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 (06:07):
You know, I think my favorite one of my favorite
memories is one, going to thefloor all the time and having a
specific room.
Like my room was 521, the musicroom.
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
Always in there.
That's because that's the onlyroom where the heater worked and
it worked so well.
I would I love a hot space.
Yeah.
Crank it up and it's my space.
I love it.
Plus, I can do it likeeverything.

(06:28):
Yeah.
Um, but some of my otherclassmates that would work on
the floor after hours would alsohave their assigned rooms.
Sure.
And one day for um bar talk,specifically the bar.
Yeah.
That was a specific project wewere working on.
Um I posted up in 521 to doeverything that I needed to do.

(06:49):
And then one of my classmateswas in the next room.
Uh-huh.
Same study room.
And then one of my cloclassmates was in the circus
room.
And I think it was like 2 a.m.
when I finally emerged.
Oh my goodness.
One of my other classmatesemerged and we looked at each
other and we were like,sleepover?
Sleepover.
And we did you sleep over on thefloor?
We did.
We worked all night.

SPEAKER_06 (07:11):
I always wanted to do that.
It is wait, did security comealong at any point?

unknown (07:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (07:16):
Did they see you?

SPEAKER_02 (07:17):
I don't know if they saw me.
Probably not.
I I guess not.
I mean, effort to hide.

SPEAKER_06 (07:24):
I mean, like you just happen to be walking
everywhere they weren't.

SPEAKER_02 (07:28):
I guess.
Well, I was like, my bar talkmusic was blasting.
So like there's no effort.
And then like halfway through, Iwas like, oh, I gotta work on my
songs.
And then like now I'm so now yougotta sing, yeah.
And then we're going back andforth between the circus room
and the uh music room, justmaking sure that our bar like
we're catching each other'sbeats.
And honestly, I think that wasthe day before the bar talk

(07:51):
presentation.

SPEAKER_06 (07:51):
That's always how bar talk comes together.
That was uh oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 (07:55):
I I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_06 (07:57):
I actually loved Bar Talk.
Like I although I have oh mygod, when we did Bar Talk.
So for those who don't know whatBar Talk is, Bar Talk is this is
something we do at NYU.
It's a part of a a class inwhich you have to sync your
movements to very complicatedmusic by the composer Bar Talk,
and it has to look naturalisticbut sync to the music in rhythm.

(08:21):
It's a really i I learned a lotfrom it, but boy howdy was it
the most fucking frustratingthing in the world.
Very frustrating.
Um but I I highly recommendanybody try doing that.
I just look up some Bar Talkmusic and and try and do some
normal stuff to it.

SPEAKER_02 (08:38):
I concur.
I just it was one of thosemoments when I can be such a
perfectionist, yeah, yeah, um,which is hilarious because of
the way that my brain has beenwired and then rewired itself
after grad school.
Um but I just remember Barta, Iwas like so anal about certain

(08:58):
things, and then doing theproject, and literally that
night I was like, I can't catchevery beat.
There's not I'm not gonna catchevery beat.
There's too many things going onat once, too.
And like I know music, so I hadthe score in front of me, and I
had written on the score and Ihad practiced, and then I was
just like, I'm gonna fuck up.

(09:18):
I I am like I know my.
Yeah, and then we did thepresentation, and I know that
Mark was like, Oh, you know, youcould have hit this spot beat
and you miss that.

SPEAKER_06 (09:37):
And is that really You didn't hear that timpany
five miles in the distance.

SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
It's not really.
I remember he goes, it's notreally what you do to your hair.
I don't know, it's notrealistic.
And then we don't scratch yourhair like that.
No, no, I was like puttingpomade or a hair curl in.
And he was like, We don't, Idon't do that.
Well, that's because you havestraight hair, Mark.
You don't have curly hair.
Devin, John.

SPEAKER_06 (10:01):
Where are you originally from?

SPEAKER_02 (10:03):
I'm from the DMV.
I am a DMV girl.
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (10:06):
So wait, I read that and went, what's DMV?

SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
DC, Maryland, and Virginia.
Oh, there you go.
Okay.
I am a DMV girl.

SPEAKER_06 (10:11):
Because you're okay, okay, okay.
Because so you were you grew upin the Washington, D.C.
area, essentially.
So that's the sort of shorthandI've got.
That's a shorthand.

SPEAKER_02 (10:20):
I was born in Virginia.
I was raised in Chevy Chase, butthat's the Rockville, Maryland.
Uh-huh.
And then I went to high schooland spent, I want to say like
four or five years in DC.
But everything is so closetogether.
At least my radius of life wasso close together that I spent a

(10:40):
lot of time in all threesections of the DMV.

SPEAKER_06 (10:44):
So I'm like, that's my move you were moving a lot
then during that time, or justlike same spot but different
activities.

SPEAKER_02 (10:51):
Same spot, different activities.
Like I I was a dancer at theWashington School of Ballet, so
I was in DC for that.
You know, I did the um theacting program at Studio
Theater, so I was in DC for thatwhen I was a kid.
But then I also did like GrotherStrathmore, which is in
Rockville.
And we moved, I think, once whenI was a kid to like upper

(11:14):
Rockville area, which is calledDurwood.
It's such a cute littlecommunity.
And then we moved again to DCfor high school.
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_06 (11:22):
Sounds like you were involved in a lot of like
artistic pursuits when you wereyounger.
Yes.
So did you get the bug prettyyoung or were you?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (11:30):
I think um I I joke all the time that I am host to
someone who has been on thisearth before and also someone
who is experiencing life at thefirst time.
There you go.
And at the same both at the sametime.
So I think when I came toconsciousness as as Devin, I was

(11:51):
like, yeah, I know what I'mdoing.
Yeah.
I'm I'm gonna do this.
Which is what I'd like to think,but actually that's not true.
Um I wanted to be an astronautfirst.
Oh, yeah.
Um, I went because I went to theschool called Sally K Ride.
So I wanted to be the astronautan astronaut and I wanted to be
the first female astronaut,which is actually impossible if
I go to a school called Sally KRide, which is named after the

(12:13):
first female astronaut.
You're like, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 (12:17):
Yeah, it's happened already.

SPEAKER_05 (12:19):
Yeah, actually, that when I found that out, the dream
was literally immediatelykilled.

SPEAKER_02 (12:24):
I was like, oh.
Exactly.
Like, what can I do?
I was like, oh, okay, I'll be awriter.
And then I realized I'll be thefirst writer, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (12:34):
I'll be the first writer.

SPEAKER_02 (12:36):
Boom, boom.

SPEAKER_04 (12:36):
Okay, let me just write this down.
Wait a second, damn it.

SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
Someone's already done this.
And it's like later on when Iwent to Catholic school, I was
like, my one and only goodfriend from Catholic school.
We were like, we're gonna bepresidents of the United States.
And I was like, I'm gonna be thefirst female.
And she was like, I'm a yearolder than you, so I'll be the
first female.
And I was like, you bitch.

SPEAKER_06 (12:59):
Just the first female or the first female
president?

SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
First female president.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
I should I should be veryspecific.

SPEAKER_06 (13:05):
Just first female.
I'm gonna be Eve.

SPEAKER_02 (13:08):
I'm gonna be Eve and go to.

SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
Maybe that was your previous life.

SPEAKER_02 (13:11):
I think, oh, you're Eve.
Then I would like to apologizeon behalf of you've done it.

SPEAKER_06 (13:19):
Maybe that's why you want that you want to be the
first because you're like, I wasthe first back then.

SPEAKER_02 (13:24):
My obsession at a young age for wanting to be the
first is hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 (13:31):
I love it.

SPEAKER_02 (13:32):
It's hilarious, and then the realization that it was
like 2001, 2002 because I wascoming into like actually
understanding that I'm a humanbeing.
Sure.
And realizing, oh wait, we're2001, two, three years into
life.
Like there's no first ofanything.
I'm just hearing existence,which was like a really

(13:55):
wonderful way of like openingmyself up to like, okay, so what
am I gonna do?
Yeah.
And the story goes with myfamily.
I have no remember memory ofthis, but the story goes in my
family that when I was aroundlike six or seven, I sat
everyone down.
And like on like a summer that Iused to be.
Like family meeting.
Family meeting.
Yeah, because I used to spendsome summers between New York
and St.
Louis.
And so, like the summer that Iwas in St.

(14:15):
Louis, I sat everyone down.
Uh-huh.
And I was like, I'm gonna be anactor.
Done.

SPEAKER_06 (14:21):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (14:22):
That was it.
I have no memory of it.
I have no memory.
I have memories of me wanting tobe everything else, but no
memory of the day that I decidedto be there.

SPEAKER_06 (14:31):
You know, it's funny they say that because when I was
a kid and I was like goingthrough that whole thing of
like, what do I want to be?
I was like, I want to be acartoonist, I want to be a
whatever this, this, this.
And then I saw, you know, I Iwent to go see movies a lot, and
then I would like me and mybrother used to make spoofs of
like these movies or whatever.
And then after a while, I wasjust like, I think I want to be
all of these things because Iactually want to just perform

(14:54):
that, you know.
Like I I want to be seen asthose things.
I don't want to actually dothem.
That's way too much work.

SPEAKER_02 (15:02):
The work?

SPEAKER_06 (15:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:03):
Oh my gosh, like, shout out to everybody, like,
shout out to political sciencemajor.

SPEAKER_06 (15:08):
Oh my god, astronauts, doctors, I like I I
it is crazy to me, like theamount of information they need
to keep at their in at theforefront of their mind.

SPEAKER_02 (15:18):
Insane.

SPEAKER_06 (15:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
Insane.

SPEAKER_06 (15:20):
I I'm like, I just give me a script.

SPEAKER_02 (15:21):
I'll remember those words and that in and of itself
is really hard, but I just got amemory where I I remember on
those monkey.
Do you remember those domemonkey bars that you would like
climb up to the top?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and they had just like abunch of mulch at the bottom,
and you never wanted to fallthat way first, which I did
multiple times.
Um, I I just had a memory of mehanging upside down because I

(15:41):
knew that that's what you had todo.
You had to defy gravity beforeAlphaba did it.
I was like, here comes a wickedjoke, it's coming.
I know it.
I know.
Oh, chie girly.
No, I love it.
I love it.
But yeah, I have a memory of mehanging upside down, trying to
be an astronaut.
Oh my god.
Wow, thank you for that.

SPEAKER_06 (16:03):
You're like, this is part of my training.
Yeah.
Getting all the blood to rest toyour head.
I I think this is what I wasthinking in kindergarten.
Like, you're like, if I can dothis, then I can do space.
You could do that thing thatlike spins in a circle really
fast.
Yeah, yeah.
Like the G Force uh thing.
Yeah, yeah.

unknown (16:17):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (16:17):
Mm-hmm.
Oh yeah, I was a kid.

SPEAKER_06 (16:20):
I would throw up.

SPEAKER_02 (16:20):
But I started as a dancer.
Yeah, you would I didn't knowthat.
I did.
Were you you you said ballet orit I I did ballet, I did tap, um
I did hip hop came later.
I did ballet tap, jazz, and thenmodern flamenco a little bit,
then hip-hop came in, then umthen African, West African dance

(16:43):
specifically, is what theycalled the class West African
dance.
Uh-huh.
Um but that yeah, I I danced forfourteen, fifteen years of my
life.
Whoa, I did not know that.

SPEAKER_06 (16:56):
Yeah, and then I learned something about you
today, Devin.

SPEAKER_02 (16:59):
I was a dance.

SPEAKER_06 (17:00):
And also the DMV.

SPEAKER_02 (17:01):
And then the DMV.
I was a I was a little, youknow, to be ray.

SPEAKER_06 (17:06):
Was that was that something you wanted to pursue
the the dance, or was thatsomething your parents were
like, try this out and you justdid it for a long time?

SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
Or I don't I have no memory of starting dance.
My mom obviously has a memory ofme being asked to leave the
class because I was so enamoredby the tap shoes that I wasn't
focusing.
Um, which I mean, start athree-year-old off with tap
class.

SPEAKER_06 (17:29):
I'm sorry, if you put like metal on the bottom of
a shoe and tippity tap tap tap,yeah, kids are gonna go crazy.

SPEAKER_02 (17:37):
I went crazy, apparently.
I mean, it's tap shoes.
I've never had that before.
Thank you very much.
Are you a good tapper?
I am I was, I am not now.
Oh, okay.
It is it is very much a skillthat you need.

SPEAKER_06 (17:47):
It's you need to keep up with you need to keep up
with.
I tried getting into it a coupleof years ago because I was like,
I think I could be in Book ofMormon, but I need some tap
experience.
I just I'm like, hire me in anyother role that with that
doesn't have tap, but like, goodlord, it's it's very difficult.

SPEAKER_02 (18:03):
The the dexterity that you need, but also the
flexibility that you need inyour ankles.
Your ankles need to really beable to move so loosely.
Like, what is that?
Um I just learned about um whatis it, tenderism, that whole
thing.
I don't I don't know too muchabout social media, but there
was this whole uh thing for thebest.

(18:23):
Trust me.
It's the worst.
Like the the idea of like themeat falling off the bone that's
that's kind of what your ankleshave to be.
They have to be like reallymeat.
They have to be falling off thebone.
Because then you're able to likemove.
It's it's crazy.
But yeah, but it's true.

SPEAKER_06 (18:41):
Like, I have I guess I have a lot of tension in my
ankle because I would try to dowhat they were saying, and I'm
just like, I don't know that Ican do it.

SPEAKER_02 (18:47):
It was hard.
I am a shuffle, changed, girly,and I can get there, but now I
don't think I've tapped inyears.
So now it would take a minute,but I was strictly on ballet and
jazz and modern for so long thatmy whole ankles are.

SPEAKER_06 (19:03):
I was gonna say that's a lot of different types
of movement.
Like ballet in particular is soit's such a it's so hard on the
body.

SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
I mean, I love ballet.

SPEAKER_06 (19:14):
Yeah, she was smiling just then, not not
throwing up.
But it's like it sounds like youdid so many different things.
And so you grew up in the DMV.
You got your driver's licensefrom the DMV.

SPEAKER_02 (19:27):
I didn't get the DMV.
It did get it we don't call itthe DMV.
Oh, I think yeah, I don't knowwhat we call it because I didn't
get my driver's license in DC.
I didn't.

SPEAKER_06 (19:39):
The rest of the country calls it the DMV.
The rest of the country in theDMV.

SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
In the DMV, we don't.
I think we call it like Msomething.
It starts with an M Metro train.
I don't know.
Oh, interesting.
But we do not call it the DMV.
Because we're the DMV.

SPEAKER_05 (19:51):
Yeah, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (19:52):
It when I went to North Carolina, which is where I
got my license, yeah.
Um, shout out to North Carolina,where you have to answer a
question about do cows have theright of way to get your
license?
Really?
Yes.
Do they?
I didn't get that questionright.
You're like, there's a reason Idon't have my driver's license.
I got a 90% on the written test.

(20:14):
That's good enough.

SPEAKER_06 (20:15):
You'll hit a couple cows, but you'll you're good.

SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Move out the way.

SPEAKER_02 (20:19):
That's all I can say.

SPEAKER_06 (20:20):
I love it.

(21:01):
Did you go to school in NorthCarolina?

SPEAKER_02 (21:03):
I did.
I did.

SPEAKER_06 (21:03):
Perfect segue.

SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
I went to North Carolina School of the Arts.

SPEAKER_06 (21:07):
North Carolina School of the Arts is excellent.
It is.
It is a fantastic uh theaterprogram.
Great program.
I saw a really wonderfulproduction of Henry Five there.
Uh really?
Yeah.
Or yeah, Henry, was it HenryFive?
Yeah.
Henry, no, no, no.
Henry Four anyway.
One of the Henries.
Wes Taylor was in it, and heplayed Falstaff.

SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
Yeah.
And he is incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was gonna ask if you saw thatproduction because I think
that's the last time you and CSAhad done um Henry before I
graduated.
Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_06 (21:38):
My my one of my closest friends in high school.
Amazing.
Oh my god, he's such such atalented, such talented human
being.
Um, but uh yeah, I was therebecause my friend's brother went
there as a designer and hedesigned that set, and it was
like a really interesting set.
And now he works for Disney.

SPEAKER_02 (21:56):
Amazing.

SPEAKER_06 (21:57):
He designed Toy Storyland.

SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
No way.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 (22:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
I love it.

SPEAKER_06 (22:03):
Brian Weiniger, that's his name.

SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
Thank you, Ron.

SPEAKER_06 (22:05):
And Garrett was his it was his brother, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 (22:08):
Oh my god.
Toy Storyland is amazing.

SPEAKER_06 (22:10):
I haven't been there yet.
I want to go so badly.
I've heard it's incredible.
Amazing.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
The next the next land I need designed is Monsters
Inc.
Land.
Ooh, that'd be a good one.
Because I mean the rollercoaster for the doors alone.
Hell yeah.
Yeah, needs to be done.
Yeah, that would be very much wewould like that now as a double.

SPEAKER_06 (22:26):
And there'd be so many opportunities to have like
you're just walking along andyou can open doors and it's like
different people's rooms or likedifferent places.
Oh, come on, Disney College.
We got ideas.

SPEAKER_02 (22:35):
We have ideas, please.
Hey yes.
Hey guys.
I'm only asking for a hundred.
We're not set designers in anyway.
Not at all.
No.
We got ideas.
I am 100% down, not the girly tocall to set design, but I do
have great designer friends.
The design program at UNCSA islike stellar.

(22:56):
Yeah.
And I still don't know anyonethat comes out of that program
who was not not only immenselytalented, but immensely gifted
at being able to follow through.

SPEAKER_03 (23:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (23:08):
It's crazy.
I yeah, I have so much respectfor the design program.
For all of you in CSA, really.

SPEAKER_06 (23:15):
That's why I went there.
Did you did you like your timethere?

SPEAKER_02 (23:18):
I had a time.

SPEAKER_06 (23:20):
Had a time.

SPEAKER_02 (23:21):
I had a time.

SPEAKER_06 (23:22):
Ah, okay.
So it was it was a little halfand half, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 (23:24):
Yeah, and that was mainly because not that it was
like awful.
No, sure, sure.
I would never not tell someoneto go there.
Um, absolutely go there.
Um I went during a transitionaryperiod, sure, which is why I
needed to go to grad school.
Because I I want to say myfreshman year was when we were
supposed to get text analysisclass.
Yeah.

(23:45):
But the teacher that we had thattaught text analysis for years
was gravely sick.
Oh no.
So then we didn't get textanalysis class.

SPEAKER_06 (23:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (23:54):
And then we got like a little workshop, which is not
a good idea.

SPEAKER_06 (23:57):
But that's not the same as like, yeah, that's not
the same as having yearlyclasses.

SPEAKER_02 (24:01):
Like being able to really learn how to excavate.
Yeah.
I never say that word right, butyou know.

SPEAKER_06 (24:06):
No, I think that's that was perfectly used.
Yeah.
Yes.
Excavate.
Like dig up what's really in thetext.

SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
We don't we didn't get that training.
Um at least I didn't feel likemy class did, or at least I
didn't feel like I did.
Sure.
But yeah, because it was such atransitionary time.
Yeah.
I realized like when I wasgraduating, I was like, I'm
missing some things.
Yeah.
And if I want to be the actorthat I want to be, the artist
that I really want to be, I doneed to get more training

(24:33):
somewhere else, whether that belike HB Studios in New York or
if I actually go to a gradschool program.
Yeah.
I I need more.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (24:41):
Yeah.
Did you end up going to HBStudios at any point?
I did not.

SPEAKER_02 (24:45):
No, no, no.
I came, I graduated in 2018.
Oh, okay.
And then took a year, uh didsome um at UNCSA is not a
musical theater.
I I will say this, it's not amusical theater program.
Sure.
But we have great musicaltheater teachers.
Oh, great.
And therefore we have greatpeople that graduate from UNCSA
who are great at musicaltheaters.

SPEAKER_06 (25:05):
I mean Wes Taylor, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 (25:06):
Wes Taylor, Isaac Powell, Rebecca Naomi Jones.
Nice.
Like they're all amazing.
And I was geared up to be one ofthose people because they were
like, I literally came in,they're like, you sing.
You sing.
Interesting.

SPEAKER_06 (25:19):
So but was musicals like the the the thing you were
looking to do?

SPEAKER_02 (25:23):
No, I noticed that I was in my family can sing.
No I sing.
It's an anomaly.
No one in my family sings.
Yeah.
Oh, interesting.
So I did not think that I couldsing.
Yeah.
And then even then, when I I didchoir in high school, I was just
like, oh, okay.
I didn't really know that I waslike a good singer until I got

(25:47):
to UNCSA.
And the entire we do this thing,you know, like sharings.
Like we do it.
Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.
And we were supposed to do amonologue, which I was like,
okay with.
And then a song, which I sangpretty ambitiously, Don't Raid
on My Parade.
Oh, hell yeah.
Just hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:04):
Because I was a gleek.
Just let I mean God.

SPEAKER_06 (26:08):
I love it.
Yeah, that was a huge song for alittle while.
They sang it on Glee.
Yeah.
So you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_05 (26:15):
Rachel Barry.
She gets it.

SPEAKER_06 (26:16):
But I did the same stuff though.
I did when I was at a Delphiuniversity, my undergrad, I did
the same thing where I was likewhen we had um we we had like uh
a little musical theater classthat they had like sort of
devised for us because there wasa uh a group of us in our class
who were who liked musicaltheater.
And every time Glee came out, Iwas just doing whatever song was

(26:37):
on there because I was justlike, it's in my head.
Yeah, and they do it well.
They do it well.
I want to see what if I can dowith it.

SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
And they gave us a good range of voice ranges,
vocal ranges, yeah, like tonesand such.
So I could listen to someonelike Santana and be like, rest
in peace.
Yeah, my God.
I could listen to Santana andsay, like, oh, I can sing, I can
sing Don't Rain on My Parade inSantana's voice, except I didn't
know um the words to say that.

(27:05):
So I just sang it in theoriginal key, and that is when I
learned via everyone else'sresponse that I could sing Babs.
Kinda.
I dare not even.
Um, but I left UNCSA as amusical theater girly.

(27:27):
I did a year of musical theateraround the country, really.
And then I ended up at a dinnertheater in Indiana.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
Don't sound too excited.
I mean, it was dinner theater istough.
It was the turning point for me,Vida.

(27:48):
It was the moment we weresinging hairspray, and we're in
the middle of I Know Where I'veBeen.

SPEAKER_06 (27:54):
Oh shit, okay.

SPEAKER_02 (27:56):
And we're like deep in it.
And if y'all don't know what thestructure of dinner theater is,
it's you come in as a guest andyou get dinner first.
And then the show starts aboutlike 45 minutes to an hour after
you've had your dinner, right?

SPEAKER_06 (28:10):
Wow, is it really that long after?
I guess I guess the clinking ofstuff might interrupt the show
or something.

SPEAKER_02 (28:15):
I I'm not paying attention, but like you get
dinner first, and then likemaybe about maybe 30 minutes to
an hour after.
I really don't know thetimeline.
Um, but it's not either.

SPEAKER_05 (28:25):
It's not your responsibility.

SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
It's not, it's not my responsibility.
But you the the thing is, thething that I'm trying to drive
is that you don't immediatelystart the show while they're
eating.
There has been some time becausewe're singing I know where I've
been.
Oh, okay.
And I'm I'm literally in themiddle of there's a ruh.
Right.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (28:46):
So it's such a powerful song.
It's like really supposed to hithome.
It is the core theme of themusical.

SPEAKER_02 (28:54):
The core theme of the musical.
And I look out, and there isthis rotund man sitting there
sawing aggressively at hisstake.

SPEAKER_06 (29:05):
Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 (29:06):
If you don't know Hairspray, I know where I've
been is like close to thepenultimate number.
It is deep in the musical.
It is not the first act, it isdeep in the second act.
And so he is sawing aggressivelyat his stake, which I know now
is probably frigid.

SPEAKER_06 (29:21):
I was just gonna say, if you're saying it started
45 minutes, they start the show45 minutes, that means his steak
has just been chilling there.

SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
And he's in the front, like right there.
I can see him, and I can see himlike oh god.

SPEAKER_06 (29:36):
Oh my god, that's one of the sounds I did.
So sorry.
And it's recorded forever.
So sorry.

SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
But he's like chewing, and his kid is kind of
like getting up and runningaround the table, and I
literally am singing, and I go,This can't be my life.

SPEAKER_06 (29:52):
You said that out loud.

SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
I said it to myself.

SPEAKER_06 (29:55):
I would have loved if you just stopped the whole
show.
You're like, this can't be mylife.

SPEAKER_02 (30:01):
No, but I literally I said it to myself and I was
like, We all get that moment.
Yeah, that was it.
And then I very shortly aftergot a vocal hemorrhage and had
to perform on top of it becauseof my contract.
And I I was on a non-et contractat the time, so I had to sing on
top of it.
The worst.
And because I sung on top of ahemorrhage, I damaged my voice.

(30:25):
And then me as a musical theatergirly, the career not ended, but
because of the my voiceliterally changed.

SPEAKER_03 (30:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (30:33):
And so I was like, oh, I don't know how to sing the
same anymore.
And so I just kind of put themusical theater dreams to bed
for a little bit.
Sure.
But then was like, I'm gonna goto grad school because no matter
what, there are other ways totell a story.
Yeah.
I can I can write one, I candirect, I can act, I can do
whatever I need to do to makesure that the truth gets out

(30:54):
somehow.
So, grad school, I went toWilliamstown.

SPEAKER_06 (30:59):
You did Williamstown too?
I did you?
I did in 2011.
Oh, really?
I was an apprentice.
Wait, when you did it, me too.
Oh yeah?
So you've been through that's sofunny.
I had Lucas Iverson here uh justa couple of days ago.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh and we were talking aboutWilliamstown.
Oh, so many more people that Ithan I realize have have gone
there and been a part of theapprenticeship.
Uh it was well, they don't havethe apprenticeship.

(31:21):
They don't, rest in peace of theapprenticeship.
Um but that it's a it was aspecial.
I don't want to call it aspecial hell, but but kind of
was there was a lot you had todo as an apprentice.
Yes.
And that's why they don't haveit anymore because it was it was
a lot.

SPEAKER_02 (31:37):
They um I will be very honest and say, God favored
me.
I um I got a full riotscholarship.
Um thank you.
Good for you.
I didn't I didn't have to paythat thing.
Yeah, the apprentices had to pay5,000, I think it was.

SPEAKER_06 (31:52):
I did.

SPEAKER_02 (31:54):
John, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_06 (31:55):
I will say it was worth it.
I did I met a lot of really nicepeople there, and I got to sing
in the cabaret, which was.
Oh, you did cabaret too?
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
That was that was the the savinggrace of it for that makes the
cabaret.
I had a blast with the cabaret.

SPEAKER_02 (32:06):
Yeah.
Um that makes the apprentice,that made the apprenticeship.
If you weren't in the cabaret,it was really fun, then I have
no idea what that was like foryou.

SPEAKER_06 (32:14):
But because the opportunities to perform were
kind of like slim.
Slim.
Yeah.
Like you had to audition foreverything.
Yes.
It wasn't like you you gotclasses and stuff, which were
were good and they were fun, butlike there was without that,
those other things, I was sograteful to have the cabaret
because it was like I get to dothis every week, I'll have

(32:35):
something to do.

SPEAKER_02 (32:36):
Um otherwise, I I won't say that I won't say
cavalierly that I don't knowwhat that was like for them.
I I have friends who areapprentice apprentices who like
I would see going back to backon like overnights, yeah.
Literally laying the overlap.
The fucking overnight.
Yeah.
There's a picture of mesomewhere sleeping on the one

(32:57):
overnight that I did while wewere laying the floor for um
this is actually how I met JesseTyler Ferguson for the play.
We were laying the carpet forthat play, and I fell asleep.
Ah, the one and only overnightthat I'd ever get and and
everyone else around was like,Devin, come on.

(33:18):
We've been on like four or fiveovernights, and I was like, I'm
trying.
But also, you're getting paidfor it.

SPEAKER_06 (33:26):
Or were these the other apprentices?

SPEAKER_02 (33:27):
Oh, I see, so and then the people that were
getting paid were like Devin,come on.
And I was like, I I tried myvery best, but then they it's
hard, and then the next day theyput me on scenic freaking
morning or some crazy literalovernight, yeah, yeah.
And then sometimes the schedulewould have been like overnight
to a 10 a.m.
class.

SPEAKER_06 (33:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (33:46):
And that's insane.

SPEAKER_06 (33:49):
Yeah.
And I never really understoodthe uh the why they did an
overnight.
I think it was just because theylike their schedules were so
packed, yeah, that it was theonly way to get it done.
But I was like, just have a dayin between.
A day, really?
I'm sure that would have beenfine.

SPEAKER_02 (34:04):
Really, just just for them to rest, which made the
parties at Williamstown evenmore crazier because that was
like the only time tourists.

SPEAKER_06 (34:13):
Well, see, there's the thing.
I wasn't a party person backthen, and not really a party
person now, but I wasn'tdrinking or anything.

SPEAKER_03 (34:20):
You're not.

SPEAKER_06 (34:21):
You're like, you're not.
You really aren't.
Uh but it's the truth.
Um, I if I'm not in bed by 11,I'm I'm mad.

SPEAKER_02 (34:29):
And funnily enough, like, I love being inside my
house.
I will only go out for abirthday or like a play.
You have to convince me to goout.
Otherwise, I'm in Sim City.

SPEAKER_06 (34:40):
It's like how worth it.

SPEAKER_02 (34:41):
Sim City?
I'm playing The Sims.
I love it.

SPEAKER_06 (34:44):
You need to talk to Gillian Bolt.
She also loves The Sims.
Really?
Yes.
Oh my god.
We were playing The Sims like inour third year together as like
just like a crappy sorry, Sims,but like there's an app version
of The Sims that we wereplaying.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:59):
No, the computer is much better.

SPEAKER_06 (35:00):
After a while, I was just like, I have to stop this.

SPEAKER_02 (35:02):
Um it is taking away my ability to live my life.
But yeah.
I love that.
You play Sims.
I love it.

SPEAKER_06 (35:09):
I love it.
Um, so so you you went to NYU.
Um, you got some great successesright out of school.
Yeah.
Because you went and did a showwith the public, yes?
Jordan's, correct?
Yes, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
How was that experience?

SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
That was amazing.
And I did, I loved my time atNYU.
I oh yeah, do you want to talkmore about NYU, please?
I mean, I I will say verybriefly because I think Jim was
right.
I know Jim was right when hesaid like sometime Jim called
her.

SPEAKER_06 (35:36):
He's mentioned maybe every single episode, with maybe
the exception of the last one Ijust did.
But because he's amazing.
He's incredible.
And he's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 (35:43):
He's such a gift to the training.
I I wanna I I thank him honestlya lot when I think about the
osmosis that he he mentioned infirst year.
He was like, listen, you're notgonna get it.
Yeah.
And then one day you'll get it.
And so I think around likesecond year, despite what I
think other people might think,I understood other people

(36:04):
meaning the teachers.
I I understood what he meant bylike you're not gonna get it.
And it was like a slow releaseof me trying to be perfect and
trying to be this idea of whatum I needed to be in order to
achieve my dream.

SPEAKER_06 (36:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (36:20):
And that just like that slow release of that into
realizing now in 2026 that's2026.
It's 2026.
That I'm like, oh, now I get it.
Yeah, okay.
Okay.
I'm I'm here, I'm here and I'mpresent, and now I understand
what Mark was talking about withjust observing life, yeah, and

(36:42):
how that teaches you way morethan you know you ever could
think that it would.
And now, like just sitting heregoing, like, oh great, yeah,
yeah, I can just breathe, andthat teaches me a lot.
I can just put a sometimes I'llstill do that Mark exercise
where I'll put a camera up andI'll just record myself doing
something.
Oh nice and just forget that I'mbeing recorded and then I'll

(37:05):
watch it back like months laterwhen I'm gonna do that.
Oh, fascinating.

SPEAKER_06 (37:07):
I don't know that we ever did that.
That that that must be maybesomething he developed through
the pandemic sort of uh teachingthat we had.

SPEAKER_02 (37:15):
It was because it was uh an another way of doing
the um exercise.

SPEAKER_06 (37:19):
Oh, the bar talk?

SPEAKER_02 (37:20):
Not the bar talk, the first thing that we do with
him is.
Oh, the toolbox.
Toolbox, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (37:24):
Toolboxes also.

SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
And how to like toolbox myself, which is
interesting really yeah, becauseyou I I learned so much about
just like observing like themoment that I I realized that I
forgot the camera was there andthen I kind of relaxed versus
like when I was there's a camerain front of me.

SPEAKER_06 (37:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (37:40):
Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (37:41):
But that is something you have to get used
to, uh as especially if you wantto do film and television.
Yeah.
Um, and honestly, we because weboth went through the program
during a time during thepandemic.

SPEAKER_02 (37:52):
The pandemic classes.

SPEAKER_06 (37:54):
Which yeah, which really changed the curriculum of
the program a lot.
Um, and there were some classesthat we had to do online.
Um my god, the fur when we firstwent into it, it was hell.
It was utter hell.
Um, I hated it.

SPEAKER_02 (38:09):
You all pioneered that.

SPEAKER_06 (38:11):
I don't know if we pioneered more than like we were
just like every day felt likehow do we do the most with the
restrictions we have availableto us?
And each year it got betterbecause the world was learning
to live with COVID.
Yeah.
Um, but I would that's but allthis to say that the amount of

(38:31):
time that we had to spend oncamera did get me into a
headspace of just forgettingthat it was there.
Yeah.
Um this is the perfect segueinto you you did Godfather of
Harlem.
I did Godfather of Harlem.
Oh, wait, I wanted to mentionthis because someone else that
I'm uh I interviewed on here, JJO'Neill.
Yeah, was uh he was I never hadhim as a teacher, but he was one

(38:53):
of the teachers at AdelphiUniversity, and I interviewed
him for the show.
And I know you had severalscenes with him.
He's like a horribly racist cop.
Um and uh how was your time onGodfather?
Yeah, he's such a sweetheart.
That's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 (39:06):
It would go cut, he'd be like, I'm so sorry.
Are you okay?
Yeah.
And I would be like, he's thebest.
It's fine.
Yeah, yeah.
We also had the experience inthe floor, too, and it'd be
like, Can I say this word?
If it says it in the script,please just say it.
Yeah.
I mean we've all read the readthe script.

SPEAKER_06 (39:21):
Um, we've agreed who here.

SPEAKER_02 (39:23):
Yeah, I know you're not a bad person.
Yeah.
I know that you don't regularlygo skipping around going like,
Yes, today I'm gonna be a badperson.
I'm gonna say terrible words.
I'm gonna say terrible words anddo terrible things, and this
makes me happy.
I pray that you're not thatperson when you're entering an
artistic space.
Um, but he's he's so sweet.

(39:44):
And I loved all of my sceneswith him.
Yeah, he's so sweet.

SPEAKER_06 (39:48):
It's speaking of this, because I think this is an
interesting conversation, uh,then that notion of like when
characters have to say racistthings or say things that are,
you know, not sociallyacceptable and difficult.
Um do you do you as an actressneed that other person to come
up like JJ did and be like, I'mso sorry?
Or do you find it's like we'veaccepted that we're doing this

(40:11):
script, so I think just continueprofessionally, or what?

SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
I think for me, and and it was something that I had
to learn through grad school.
I found like at first I gotreally annoyed by it.

SPEAKER_06 (40:22):
People saying I'm so sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (40:24):
Because I was like, well, also to be fair, we were
in the middle of like 2020 posteverything.
And I was in a headspace of likeburn it, burn it all to the
ground.
Yeah.
I I I think we started ourtraining there.
That's yeah, that's where myclass started.
And I think everyone in my classum slowly came to the
realization that I was very mucha burn it all to the ground

(40:47):
person.
Uh-huh.
And it just it just got intensefor me after.
So for a while, I was very muchin that headspace of like, I'm
sorry, I don't need it.
I just I believe in yourhumanity and I believe in your
ability to separate betweencharacter, story, and yourself.
And now I've learned that somepeople need to do that so that

(41:09):
they can ensure the character,so they can begin that
separation process.
So for me as an artist and forme as a person, I've learned
that it's fruitful, but alsosomething I want to make uh uh I
want to allow for the the spaceto be safe for people to do what
they need to do in order to tellthe story as truthfully as I

(41:30):
can.
So like a lot less about me now,which is which is fun, you know?
It's it's a lot less about whatI need in particular to to tell
a very difficult story, and moreabout like okay, what do you
also need?
How what do we need together andhow can we move forward?
Like, I I know what I need.

(41:52):
Yeah, but I don't know thisother person.
Yeah.
And so what we're about to do isvery difficult.
Yeah, it makes us uncomfortable,it might make the audience
divisive, it might causeconversations.
A la shaw when he wrote Mrs.
Warren's Profession and theentire theater got burned down.
Um, I'm like, it might do that.
So how do we protect each other?
Yeah.

(42:12):
Like how do we hold space foreach other?
And so I think, yeah, that isthat's an excellent no, that's
an excellent answer.

SPEAKER_06 (42:19):
I think that's very intriguing.
It's like knowing thyself, andit's like, well, yeah, if this
is what this person needs, thenthat's what they need.
Yeah.
I I But I also understand theother side of it too.
I'm just being like, it feelslike maybe you it's labor on
your part to be like it is fine.

SPEAKER_02 (42:35):
Yeah, it it did at the time, but that's because the
time was so um laborious and itwas charged, and I'm I'm an
empath, and I I wanted to be umwhen I was indecisive about
whether I was gonna actually bean actor um from external forces
and internal forces as well.

(42:56):
I was just like, oh okay, maybeI will follow a law career
because that's what I had beensetting on the side, and yeah, I
was either gonna go intoenvironmental law or civil
rights law or like internationallaw.
It was like one of the three.
And I I it like reinvigoratedthat spirit that I had.

SPEAKER_03 (43:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (43:15):
And I was just doing all this research and I was
going down rabbit holes afterrabbit holes, and I everything
was like awakening for me in anew way.
Yeah.
Because before it was just likestudied, but now I was really
living it.

SPEAKER_03 (43:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (43:29):
And so I was just like, I I don't it's like it's
I'm gonna butcher the quote fromFor Color Girls, but it's like
one thing I don't need isanother apology.
I did not need another apology.
I was like, I get it.
Yeah, I I can I can tell whensomeone and I I do believe this,
I I can tell when someone meansit, when they mean to be mean

(43:49):
spirited and when they just itjust happens.
Yeah.
And and then it's becomes like awhole thing, and then I have to
take care of you, and then I'mlike, no, baby, baby.

SPEAKER_06 (43:58):
Yeah, that's when it's like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 (43:59):
Yeah, and I I didn't have the ability or capacity at
that time to do that.
Yeah.
Now I do.
Nice.
So now I feel like I'm a betterpartner.
I live at 23 years old.

SPEAKER_06 (44:13):
No, no, no.
It's hey, we're all growing andlearning.
I had a camp counselor when Iwas younger that, and I I still
think about this.
This is like so long ago, um,like a solid 20 years ago.
Um, but he would always say ifwe were doing something that he
didn't like uh and we wouldapologize, he would always he
would almost always say, Don'tsay sorry, just do better.

SPEAKER_02 (44:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (44:38):
I'm like fair.

SPEAKER_02 (44:39):
Yeah.
Fair.
I also I also grew up beingtaught that.
Yeah.
Don't say sorry unless you meanit.

SPEAKER_06 (44:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (44:45):
Really.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and so you kind of learn howto either say I'm sorry for
social races.

SPEAKER_03 (44:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (44:52):
Or say I'm sorry with the intent of actually
changing the behavior behind theI'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06 (44:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
And yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (45:00):
And in our instance, it was us continuingly to do the
thing that annoyed him.
And we just kept saying sorry.
And so he was like, I know youdon't mean it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or maybe you do, but you're notlearning from it.

SPEAKER_02 (45:14):
Yeah.
And there's the there's the thelevels of awareness of like, I
know that some people say I'msorry and they genuinely mean
it, but they haven't learned thelesson yet.
So now they're like, because II've been there.
So like I'll say, like, I'msorry, but I haven't learned
that lesson, and then I do itagain.
I'm like, no, but I I am sorry.
You're still sorry.
Like, I'm I'm not less sorry.
Yeah.
It just becomes a cycle untilyou finally get to a point where

(45:35):
like, uh, oh, this oh, theydon't want me to do that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (45:40):
That thing they said 15 times.

SPEAKER_02 (45:42):
Um so sorry, mother.
I get it.

SPEAKER_06 (45:47):
I love it.

SPEAKER_02 (45:47):
You wanted me to thaw the chicken.
I'm so sorry.
I get it.
But yeah, yeah, yeah.
Godfather was a greatexperience.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (45:55):
Please, if you want to let's talk a little about
that before her final segment.

SPEAKER_02 (45:59):
I remembered the segment, uh, the the thing that
got us on the tangent.
Oh, please.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (46:04):
Yeah.
It all started from JJ.
It all started from JJ.
It's still JJ's fault, no.

SPEAKER_02 (46:10):
No, he um he had to punch me in one scene.
Oh shit, did he really?
He did.
It was so funny.
Because one day, like one takerather, um, he punched me in the
back.
Yeah.
And then he was like, oh, did Iactually hit you?

SPEAKER_06 (46:24):
And I was like, no, I'm I'm sure I'm just a great
actress.

SPEAKER_02 (46:28):
I'm I'm good at what I do, I think.
I I like to think that I am, Ihope.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 (46:34):
Was that something on the day that they had to like
that they just put together?
Or did you have like some sortof like on the day, you know.
Really?
Just block it on the day.
There you go.

SPEAKER_02 (46:42):
On the day.
I'm on at least on the TV set itwas like on the day.
Sure.
Same thing actually with CrystalLake as the whole on the day.
Nice.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (46:49):
Oh, and you and you filmed Crystal Lake already?
Can you you can't talk about it?

SPEAKER_02 (46:54):
I can tell you that if you are a horror fan, there
will be rivers of blood.

SPEAKER_06 (46:58):
Oh exclusive.
A WCA exclusive.
Rivers of blood in Crystal Lake.

SPEAKER_02 (47:04):
If you like Friday the 13th, if you love horror, if
that's like your your genre andyou love that, I I believe that
all fans will be pleasantlysurprised.
Oh, I'm excited.
Excited, and I think you'll lovethe series and what Brad and all
the other writers on the teamwere able to do with Pam's
story, because it followed thisspoils nothing, but it follows

(47:25):
Pam's um story before the uhinitial movie.
Gotcha.
So what they've been able to doin terms of expanding Pam's
story and expanding the world ofCrystal Lake is truly amazing
and inventive, and I'm in awe ofwhat they were able to do with
this franchise that people love.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (47:44):
There are so many Friday the 13th movies, yes.

SPEAKER_02 (47:48):
And I I didn't watch any of them because I admittedly
am a I love blood, but I am ascaredy cat.
I am a serial killer down girl.
Like I know all about them, butI am a scaredy cat.
Yeah, yeah.
And so I don't watch all thehorror films that when I was
cast in this, I was like, okay,well, I should go watch some of

(48:09):
this to get a sense of it.
Like I should watch Halloween, Ishould watch Friday the 13th,
just so I can understand thegenre and get a better
appreciation for it.
And I have a huge appreciationfor it.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (48:21):
It's very difficult to make a good horror film.
It is.
That's like ri truly scary.
Yeah.
Because there's so many tropesthat we're used to now that like

(48:53):
sometimes you can sort of uh youcan guess when they're gonna
happen.
Like if a jump scare is gonnahappen or something.

SPEAKER_02 (48:59):
I get jump scared easily, so you're you're gonna,
it's an easy target.

SPEAKER_06 (49:02):
A loud, abrupt thing is always gonna be like god damn
it.

SPEAKER_02 (49:07):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I went in the editor's roombecause the um Brad had Brad is
the showrunner.
He invited me to the editor'sroom and we were just watching.
Cool.
And it was it's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 (49:16):
And um just watching, and there was a jump
scare, and I was like, ah!

SPEAKER_02 (49:21):
Cool, we're gonna keep that.
Yeah, he literally goes, Well,we know that's effective.

SPEAKER_06 (49:30):
I haven't done deeper questions for a while.
I didn't do I don't think I didone all of last season because I
was trying new stuff.
It's guess what, folks?
It's some of the same questionsfrom the first season because I
didn't update anything, but Ithink they are still good
questions.
Pick a number one through eight.

(49:51):
Five.
Five.
This is a classic.
Oh god.
This is a good one.
This is a good one.
I I would say this was this isone of the easier?
No, I don't know.
I'll just say it.
What does making it look like toyou?
And do you fear failure in abusiness where so few make it,
quote unquote, in thetraditional understanding, i.e.

(50:13):
money, fame, yeah, what haveyou.
Yeah, yeah.
So essentially the question iswhat does success in this
industry look like to you?
Or what would it look like toyou?

SPEAKER_02 (50:24):
I had a very clear image of what it looked like
when I was younger.
Yeah.
Um, and then my mom who loveyou, but I will admit did not
always want me to be an actor.
Sure.
Um, I don't know if you rememberthat, but I definitely remember
that mom.
Um anytime I said I wanted to befamous, because that's what my

(50:47):
idea was of making it, uh, she'dbe like, yeah, but famous for
what?
And that was always the thequestion that followed.
And I would always like gobecause I knew that she knew
what I meant.
And when I was younger, Ithought it was her questioning
what I wanted to do with mylife.

SPEAKER_05 (51:08):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (51:08):
And now as I'm older, it I realize it was a
prompt and uh and uh desire forme, an invitation rather for me
to really visualize and definewhat I wanted to do.
Absolutely.
So when I was younger, it waslike Disney Channel, duh.

SPEAKER_06 (51:28):
Yeah, duh.
Who didn't?
I wanted to be on one of thoseDisney Channel shows.
I wanted to be on all that.

SPEAKER_02 (51:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (51:33):
Remember all that?

SPEAKER_02 (51:34):
I do.
I wanted to all that.
I wanted to do that so Raven.
Hell yeah.
That's so Raven's show.
My entire personality was shapedby Raven Simone, um Raven Simone
Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_06 (51:46):
Um you ever watched Smart Guy?

SPEAKER_02 (51:48):
I didn't actually watch it.

SPEAKER_06 (51:49):
Smart Guy was, oh my god, one of my favorites.
It's a good movie now.
I love it.

SPEAKER_02 (51:54):
I I watched it now, but I didn't when I was younger.
Uh, who was the oh um bouquetResidence Lady of the House
speaking of hyphen.
Oh, I've never even heard ofthat one.
Oh, it's keeping up appearances,it's a British television show.
Oh, okay, okay, got you.

SPEAKER_06 (52:08):
I thought it was still Disney.

SPEAKER_02 (52:09):
Oh no, no, you were like, what is this?

SPEAKER_06 (52:11):
I was like, that's a Disney one?

SPEAKER_02 (52:13):
It's a 90s British sitcom.
Oh, keeping up appearances.
Okay, yes, I've definitely heardthat one.
It's it's iconic and I loved it,but I I wanted to do that.
That was my idea of making it.
And then 2018, actually, rightafter I graduated undergrad, I
packed up all my stuff.
This is in June, Tony Sunday.
I had gotten tickets to TonySunday.

(52:34):
Tony Sunday.
Who's Tony Sunday?
Tony, like the Tony's.
It was the Tony Sunday.
No, you don't know who Tony is?
John! Tony Sunday.

SPEAKER_05 (52:44):
Tony! I know who's Tony Sunday.

SPEAKER_06 (52:48):
I was just picturing this hunk.
Oh, Tony Sunday.
You know Tony Sunday?
Yeah, he's a total he's a totalice cream.

SPEAKER_02 (52:57):
Ice cream?
That sounds good.

SPEAKER_06 (52:59):
Um Tony Sunday.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 (53:01):
I yeah, it was Tony's Sun, Tony's Sunday.
And long story short, I I tellthe story to to sh answer the
question, but long story short,I had packed up my stuff from
North Carolina.
My mom was in one car, I was inmy my car.
Okay.
Um, that I loved ever so much,and we were in Virginia driving

(53:22):
up to New York so that I couldbecause I had to move out that
day.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, so that I can make it to theTony's by that night.
And everything was fine, butlike very, very randomly, um, I
was driving and someone cut meoff, and I ended up in a like a
near fatal car accident.
Like it was very bad.
Holy shit.

(53:43):
Um, like the car wrapped arounda tree.
The engine was a- It wasn't yourcar.
Oh my god.
The engine was touching thetrunk, and I remember waking,
kind of waking up to that.
Wait, I'm sorry, I'm justprocessing what you just said.

SPEAKER_06 (53:56):
Engine was touching the trunk.

SPEAKER_02 (53:58):
Yeah, like like the car was literally wrapped around
it.

SPEAKER_06 (54:01):
Yeah, I know.
That's whoa, that is terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 (54:03):
I had my Tony's dress, I had two dresses for the
Tony's in the backseat.
I had like all my precious, likethe things that mattered most to
me in the car, and then my momhad her the other stuff.
And she was exits ahead.
Exits ahead.
Because she's a fast driver, andI am a very much speed limit
driver.
Because you are one thing I knowabout Virginia, you are not

(54:23):
gonna give me a ticket inVirginia.
They love to give tickets, andyou are not gonna give me one.
So I was driving very much speedlimit, and I just remember
waking up in that moment andgoing through the initial scan
of like, okay, can I move myappendages?
Can I move my like my fingers,my toes, that or the night?
And then I realized, like, ohokay, I am alive, I just gotta

(54:44):
get out of here.
Yeah.
And then there was a thoughtthat came across that like maybe
I'm not, and that that was it.

SPEAKER_06 (54:52):
And you were in some sort of like limbo of just like
watching, some sort of etherealspace.

SPEAKER_02 (54:57):
Yeah, I literally was like, Well, that's if that
was my life, and this was when Iwas 21.
So like yeah, 21.
So if I was like, if that was mylife, I didn't do anything that
I wanted to do when I wasyounger, slash I didn't like

(55:18):
what I did do.
So then obviously, end of thatstory, I am physically fine.
That's also why I stoppeddancing.

SPEAKER_06 (55:26):
Or I'm talking to a ghost.

SPEAKER_02 (55:28):
Oh shit.
That's the horror story.

SPEAKER_06 (55:30):
That's actually across the lake.

SPEAKER_02 (55:32):
She merged too.
No, but I like that's actuallywhy I had to stop dancing
because I had to relearn how towalk and everything was a whole
thing.
Oh goodness.
But when I came to and Irealized, like, okay, other
tangent.
I did make it to the Tonies thatnight.
Did you?
I did.
Oh my god.
I did.
I did.
Um, I got to the hospital and Iwas like, I'm trying to get to

(55:55):
the Tonies.
And I think they thought I wasnominated.

SPEAKER_06 (55:57):
This is not the Tonies.
This is the hospital.

SPEAKER_02 (55:59):
They were like, you're not okay.
And I think one of the doctorsthought I was nominated for the
Tonies.
So they put me up and theybumped me ahead of every other
thing that was happening, andthey rushed me through to then
get me.
I somebody, I don't know.
I think it was either my mom orlike someone, somebody paid for
me to get on a flight fromVirginia to New York, and then I

(56:19):
got ready in the car.
All of this is adrenaline.
It's one hell of a natural drugshit because the next day I
could not walk.

SPEAKER_06 (56:26):
I was gonna say, wait, I'm like, you had the we
learned to walk, but you werefine there.
I was fine.

SPEAKER_02 (56:31):
Yeah.
I mean, they did wheelchair mearound, sure, but the next day I
couldn't walk.
Oh my god.
Couldn't walk.
All of it was adrenaline.
It is one hell of a thing.
If do like absolutely believeit.
But um, I then realized, like,oh I just want to be honest.
That's what making it would befor me.
Yeah.
I just wanna I just wanna likewhat I've done.

(56:54):
Yeah.
That's it.
I want to like the stories thatI put out.
I want those stories and the thecharacters that I embody to move
the needle forward.
Um, it doesn't, I don't have tobe the first anymore.
Sure.
I don't have the first to haveto be the first to do anything.
Well, you know what?
I just have to be.
Yeah.

(57:15):
And that's what making it becamefor me.
Um I am I do like materialisticthings, so I do want money.
Yeah.
Um but I I no longer need to belike a billionaire.
I just want to have money to beable to live comfortably here,
um, be able to provide a lifefor my family, not be burdened

(57:39):
down by the lack of money or theabundance of it.
I just want to have enough thatI'm fine, that my children are
fine, that my grandchildchildren will be fine.
I want to be able to like be apart of integral pieces of
theater and film.
Um I want to make people laugh.

(57:59):
I want to make people leave atheater and go like, oh that
that touched me here.
I just that that's what makingit means.
Like if somebody ten years afterI pass away goes, Oh, do you s
did you see that film that Devindid where she did X, Y, and Z
and and I really like she reallyhelped me change the way that I

(58:22):
approach myself.
Yeah, then I'm fine.

SPEAKER_06 (58:24):
That's what matters.

SPEAKER_02 (58:25):
That is literally the only thing that matters.
Yeah, yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
But also, if I end up on DisneyChannel, little Devin would be
very happy.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.
She'd be ecstatic.
She'd be like, You saw themouse?
What?

SPEAKER_06 (58:41):
That's that's wonderful, Devin.
But you know what?
You are the first person toprobably get in a car crash and
then go to a hospital and sayyou need to be at the Tony's,
someone bought you a ticket,then you got to the Tony's that
night.
John, I'm actually crazy.
You might be the first personever where that has happened.

SPEAKER_02 (59:04):
Yeah, I'm actually crazy.
I've I've I've come to yes.
And then I will say that we allhave our own special brand of
crazy, and mine is highlyambitious with very little
understanding of the limitationsthat I should be working in,

(59:24):
such as maybe go through the CATscan again.
Maybe just let them look at yourbrain to make sure you're fine.
Um, maybe just sit down, breathefor a second.
Yeah.
I see if you can walk.
See see if you can walk.

SPEAKER_06 (59:41):
Like truly walk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, Devin, thank you so muchfor coming on to this show.
This was so much fun.
It was so lovely to get to knowyou better.
It's a weird thing on the floor.
You don't really get I know.
It was such a good on the butwhen you're on the floor, you
don't really get the time toreally get to know everybody.

(01:00:01):
Like in other classes.
Yeah.
It's a lot harder to get to knowpeople.
Yeah.
Um, because you just go, go, goall the time.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:07):
And we we went to school at a time when we
literally weren't allowed tohave a class, like multiple on
the floor.

SPEAKER_06 (01:00:12):
Yeah, exactly.
We weren't even on the samefloor at the same time.
Never.
Um, but this is so lovely,Devin.
Uh, what do you want to plug?
Anything else?

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:20):
I mean, we've um oh yeah.
Uh yeah.
If tune in to not even if, tunein to Crystal Lake.
When does it come out?

SPEAKER_06 (01:00:27):
Oh tune in.
Oh, you don't know yet?

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:30):
I have no idea.
Oh I have no idea.
It is coming out.
It will be coming out.
Yeah, later in 2026.
There you go.
It is coming out, and you allwill love it.
It's a fantastic job.
I'm I'm obsessed with the castand obsessed with the writers,
the editor.
Like everyone did a fantasticjob on the show, and it's it's
great.
I'm so excited, Devin.
Really is great.

SPEAKER_06 (01:00:51):
Oh my god.
Thank you so much again, Devin.
Thank you.
All right, y'all.
That's this week's episode.
We'll catch you next week.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:59):
Bye.
Bye.