July 10, 2025 • 15 mins
What really happened the night when Mordecai Black allegedly killed Patrick Heringer? Paula Christian from WCPO checked in to find out what police really knew about Black, and when they knew it.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
My Billy Cunningham, the great American.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Of course, Channel ninety I team under the leadership of
Paula Christian, has done an excellent report on what did
the mayor know and when did he know it? Have
to had purevoll? What did the police department know and
when did they know it? About the information about the
murder of Patrick Herringer and inside his own home. And
you may recall at the time everyone was saying, including
(00:28):
the mayor, that we weren't notified, didn't know about it.
New information seems to Connord Dick the statement made by
Mayor I have to have pureval in the aftermath of
the murder of Patrick Herringer on June fourth, and I
had on Sarah about two weeks later to say she's
devastated would be an understatement to have someone murdered in
cold blood in your own home. But Paula Christian, once again,
(00:51):
welcome to the Bill Cunningham Show. And can you tell
the American people what the IT team has discovered about
reviewing the records and what the city knew and when
they knew it about the release in the activities of
one Mordecai black.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well. Thank you for having me it's always a pleasure. Unfortunately,
I did uncover that Cincinnati police knew about Mordecai blacks
outstanding parole violations two months before the murder happened. They
got the hits while investigating a domestic disturbance. Mordecai's girlfriend
(01:28):
called the police on April sixth in the middle of
the night, and she was reporting that Mordecai had broken
into her place where they apparently lived together, after she
threw him out and they had a fight and he
(01:50):
broke in through a fire escape, climbed through a window,
and when she got home, he was standing there naked
in her home. So she called police. Police came out,
they interviewed her. Mordecai was not there when police got there.
She told police what happened, and she listed Mordecai's address
(02:13):
as her own address, which is a multi family home
on Vine Street, and the police officers on the scene
went out to their cruiser and they ran Mordecai Black's
name through their mobile data computer and they got six
hits for parole violation, which does seem to contradict a
(02:35):
statement made by Mayor Atappuraval.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
You have that in your story in which you relate
that the mayor. I could recall it specifically that the
mayor at the time said, we knew nothing, didn't know
about it, and we got to do better. The Adult
Parole Authority suddenly they got involved and they started talking about, okay,
we put it in the system, and the mayor kind
of pictured this thing is something where the he wasn't involved,
(03:00):
we weren't notified. We got to do better. It's unacceptable.
I don't know what level of violence is acceptable, but
it's certainly unacceptable. But when you talk about the six hits,
you also say in your story that one of the CPD,
sergeant Anthony Mitchell, confirmed to you that the officer has
got six hits on black for par violations when they
(03:21):
entered his name into a mobile computer base on April
sixth during a domestic disturbance. And so you would have
to say that of the six hits, the city knew
at least two months before the murder of Patrick that
this guy was a terrible, terrible risk of committing some
future crime. He'd spent most of his life in jail.
(03:43):
I was told by someone in the state that he
had numerous violations of proper behavior in prison, for the
years he was locked up. He was a terrible, terrible inmate,
and they never pursued that. I had a state official
tell me Paula Christian that when fights and robberies take
place in prison, they generally don't pursue it at all
(04:03):
because there's too much of it going on.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
They simply let it, let it go.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
They should have pursued criminal charges against him while he
was locked up in prison, because you can't commit a
bunch of crimes in prison and not be able accountable
for it. But nonetheless, so when I have to have
Piraval said the city was completely in the dark about this,
was that, shall we say inaccurate?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Well, it was inaccurate that Cincinnati police did know about
the parole violations two months in advance. What they knew
about them, I don't know. My understanding from talking to
the police spokesperson is when you're checking a person's name
through the system and it comes up a parole violation,
(04:48):
it doesn't list details of what that parole violation is.
It could just be a missed parole meeting, so they
don't know. And that's the explanation that that I received.
So the city in the early aftermath of the terrible murder.
They did shift the blame or try to shift the
(05:10):
blame to the Ohio Adult Parole Authority and Ohio Department
of Rehabilitation and Correction, saying you never told us. I mean,
I've got the mayor's statement here. He said when he
cut his ankle monitor, city law enforcement should have been
notified immediately and he should have been tracked down and apprehended.
That this didn't happen is unacceptable. So they tried to
(05:33):
shift the blame to the state. The state pushed back
and said, look, within twenty four hours of him missing
his meeting with his parole officer and cutting off his
ankle monitor, we did file arrest warrants and violations in
the system that should have been spotted by Cincinnati police.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
So after the incident with the so called girlfriend, I
can't imagine being a girlfriend of Mortca Black, but that's
a different issue. After the incident with the girlfriend, the
police went out and they ran immediately through. They found it,
okay that this is a guy that's wanted. We don't
know why he's wanted, but he's wanted. And then you
also indicate that the police did not track down Mordecai
(06:15):
Black after issuing a warren for his arrest because the burglary.
So the burglary took place on about April to sixth,
and a warren was an issued for his arrest until
May fifteenth, which is what five six weeks later. Do
you know why it took five or six weeks to
issue a warren for his arrest.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Well, actually those are two different crimes, well multiple. Mordecai
was very active. Police did not charge him for that
domestic disturbance or that break in because they with his girlfriend,
because they said they got conflicting stories and after consulting
with prosecutors, they did not charge him, so they This
(06:53):
is a whole separate other burglary that Mordecai Black is
accused of committing on Straight Street on May fifteenth, in
which he again broke into a home and to a
residents woke up and told them to leave, and he fled.
Police came out. They filed a warrant that day for burglary,
(07:18):
but it was never served, so he was never arrested
until after Patrick Herringer was killed.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So the May fifteenth, and you make the point A
Paula Christian of Channel nine in your story that the
police on May fifteenth, after the second burglary, and I
was told he committed many other offenses that he wasn't
arrested for, but they could couldn't prove it, so they
let it go.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
But on May fifteenth, they.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Knew it was a second burglary, they knew he was
wanted by parole, and they knew where he lived or
supposedly lived.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yes, that's what my reporting has determined. And all of
this is based on police records. So all of this
information came from the Cincinnati Police's own documents.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Why didn't they go out and get them after May fifteenth,
before the June fourth murder of Patrick?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, what's the reason?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I don't know. I asked for an interview with Cincinnati Police,
and I asked for an interview with somebody from the city,
and I did not My request for an interview was
not accepted. So if I had had the opportunity to
speak to them, I would have certainly ask those questions.
So what happens is the public is left to guess
(08:39):
and wonder and speculate, And you know, I would prefer
to ask those questions myself.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
But the city doesn't respond. They don't say no to you,
They simply don't respond at all.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Well, no, I was told the Cincinnati police declined, my
it's my request for an interview, so they said now.
But I think it's important to also point out is
we you know, they knew where he lived on this
Vine at this Vine Street home, and he continued to
(09:18):
return there. So if police wanted to find him, they
really could have just staked out this property because you know,
just an hour or less than an hour before this,
this terrible murder happened, we have on video from a
source a man who looks just like Mordecai Black leaving
(09:42):
that apartment again with a whole bunch of things in
his hand, shoes, clothes, and running out the door. And
around that same time, somebody from that address called nine
to one one and said we had a burglary and
somebody took jim shoes, keys, and other I so, and
the video tracks him directly from that house to right
(10:06):
in the same area of where the Herringers live. And
you know also he was carrying a knife.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Well, one answer to that question might be when I
talked to a state Rep. Stacy Abrams, who spent twenty
years as a cop in Cincinnati, and I spoke to
Ken Cober. It used to be that when cops showed
up for a shift, as it wasn't a lot going on,
they would assigned each police officer two or three warrants
to go find this guy, and then they would spend
(10:34):
time locating him because not much was going on. When
you're down two hundred and fifty street police officers in
the city of Cincinnati, there are many times as one
car for the Central Business District from the Ohio River
up through OTR. Ken Kober told me, there are many
occasions we have one car on duty from between midnight
and seven am one and if that person is in
(10:55):
a traffic situation, violation or whatever, no one's picking up
war Owrance to go look for anybody anymore because they're
overwhelmed and they don't have time. And that's what ken
Kober and State Rep. Stacy Abrams said that this is
a classic example where after May fifteenth, there was an
active warrant for the arrest of Mordecai Black. They knew
(11:17):
where he lived, they knew his dangerous proclivities. They also
had the information from April six burglary that they decided
not to pursue, and they knew this guy was a
vicious criminal. And because of staffing problems, I was told
that we don't take warrants anymore on a shift to
go find somebody.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Does that make sense to you.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Well, you know, these police officers, they are following the
directive of what their boss tells them to do. So,
you know, if their boss is saying, you know, you've
got to go patrol north over the Rhine and that's
what you're gonna do, or you're going to go patrol
Smail Park, or you're going to you know, I'm sure
(12:04):
that their boss is not telling them go deliver these
warrants or go look for these people, these fugitives, and
they're not doing it. They're they're just following the orders
that their bosses are giving them, would be my interpretation.
And you know, maybe maybe it does require more police officers.
(12:24):
But these are questions for the public. I mean, the
public has to decide what kind of city they want,
what they want their police to do, what is important
to them. These these are questions for them. All I'm
doing is giving them all the information so they can
bring these questions to their elected leaders and their police
(12:47):
chiefs and ask themselves.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And Paul, that's a great comment. The officers will do
what they're told to do. I head on a guest
about a year ago and out of front of Saint
Francis Sarah Church on Central Park in which is open
air drug dealing, open air prostitution, human excrement is deposited
on the alleys and streets around that previously great Catholic church.
(13:11):
The Catholic and priest in charge shut the door and
locked and he couldn't deal with all what was going on.
And police officers in uniform and cars were drove drive
by open air drug dealing and open air prostitution and
do nothing about it. And there were three or four
business owners that said, we can't, we can't live like this.
There's no business being conducted, and they had to close
(13:32):
their businesses. And that event brought little or no action
from the City of Cincinnati other than holding a news
conference which happened yesterday in which the mayor and the
city manager and the police chief dislocated their shoulders, patting
themselves on the back about what a great job they're doing,
how much crime is down, but we know it's not down.
(13:53):
We know it's bad, and now every night there's more murders.
Had on about an hour ago Steve Gooden, in which
there was a street takeover in Clifton that was on
Channel nine in which large numbers of individuals dancing on
city cars, open air drug use, selling beer and drugs
(14:13):
out the back of cars, brandishing firearms the firetruck and
Clifton could not get out of the fire station for
a call the number of people and that has caused
no stir at all. And all you can do is
report the facts as you've said, and we get the
city we deserve. And if they spend their time complimenting
themselves what a great job they've done. Without without referencing
(14:35):
these kinds of events, we're going to end up like
downtown Chicago, New York and Philadelphia. But Paula Christian, thank you,
and you put it out there. And the city had
six hits to pick up Mordecai Black and failed to
do so, resulting June fourth and the murder. Especially after
May fifteenth, it was obvious this guy was a danger
to the community and the city police simply did not respond.
(14:58):
But Paula Christian, thanks, thank you, and good luck to
you and all the folks in Channel nine.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Thank you very much, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Paula Christian, thank you. Oh, let's continue with more. There
you have it. The facts will set us free.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
And when the mayor says we didn't know about it,
six times, they knew about it and did nothing.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Bill Cunningham seven hundred wold
My Billy Cunningham, the great American.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Of course, Channel ninety I team under the leadership of
Paula Christian, has done an excellent report on what did
the mayor know and when did he know it? Have
to had purevoll? What did the police department know and
when did they know it? About the information about the
murder of Patrick Herringer and inside his own home. And
you may recall at the time everyone was saying, including
(00:28):
the mayor, that we weren't notified, didn't know about it.
New information seems to Connord Dick the statement made by
Mayor I have to have pureval in the aftermath of
the murder of Patrick Herringer on June fourth, and I
had on Sarah about two weeks later to say she's
devastated would be an understatement to have someone murdered in
cold blood in your own home. But Paula Christian, once again,
(00:51):
welcome to the Bill Cunningham Show. And can you tell
the American people what the IT team has discovered about
reviewing the records and what the city knew and when
they knew it about the release in the activities of
one Mordecai black.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well. Thank you for having me it's always a pleasure. Unfortunately,
I did uncover that Cincinnati police knew about Mordecai blacks
outstanding parole violations two months before the murder happened. They
got the hits while investigating a domestic disturbance. Mordecai's girlfriend
(01:28):
called the police on April sixth in the middle of
the night, and she was reporting that Mordecai had broken
into her place where they apparently lived together, after she
threw him out and they had a fight and he
(01:50):
broke in through a fire escape, climbed through a window,
and when she got home, he was standing there naked
in her home. So she called police. Police came out,
they interviewed her. Mordecai was not there when police got there.
She told police what happened, and she listed Mordecai's address
(02:13):
as her own address, which is a multi family home
on Vine Street, and the police officers on the scene
went out to their cruiser and they ran Mordecai Black's
name through their mobile data computer and they got six
hits for parole violation, which does seem to contradict a
(02:35):
statement made by Mayor Atappuraval.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
You have that in your story in which you relate
that the mayor. I could recall it specifically that the
mayor at the time said, we knew nothing, didn't know
about it, and we got to do better. The Adult
Parole Authority suddenly they got involved and they started talking about, okay,
we put it in the system, and the mayor kind
of pictured this thing is something where the he wasn't involved,
(03:00):
we weren't notified. We got to do better. It's unacceptable.
I don't know what level of violence is acceptable, but
it's certainly unacceptable. But when you talk about the six hits,
you also say in your story that one of the CPD,
sergeant Anthony Mitchell, confirmed to you that the officer has
got six hits on black for par violations when they
(03:21):
entered his name into a mobile computer base on April
sixth during a domestic disturbance. And so you would have
to say that of the six hits, the city knew
at least two months before the murder of Patrick that
this guy was a terrible, terrible risk of committing some
future crime. He'd spent most of his life in jail.
(03:43):
I was told by someone in the state that he
had numerous violations of proper behavior in prison, for the
years he was locked up. He was a terrible, terrible inmate,
and they never pursued that. I had a state official
tell me Paula Christian that when fights and robberies take
place in prison, they generally don't pursue it at all
(04:03):
because there's too much of it going on.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
They simply let it, let it go.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
They should have pursued criminal charges against him while he
was locked up in prison, because you can't commit a
bunch of crimes in prison and not be able accountable
for it. But nonetheless, so when I have to have
Piraval said the city was completely in the dark about this,
was that, shall we say inaccurate?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Well, it was inaccurate that Cincinnati police did know about
the parole violations two months in advance. What they knew
about them, I don't know. My understanding from talking to
the police spokesperson is when you're checking a person's name
through the system and it comes up a parole violation,
(04:48):
it doesn't list details of what that parole violation is.
It could just be a missed parole meeting, so they
don't know. And that's the explanation that that I received.
So the city in the early aftermath of the terrible murder.
They did shift the blame or try to shift the
(05:10):
blame to the Ohio Adult Parole Authority and Ohio Department
of Rehabilitation and Correction, saying you never told us. I mean,
I've got the mayor's statement here. He said when he
cut his ankle monitor, city law enforcement should have been
notified immediately and he should have been tracked down and apprehended.
That this didn't happen is unacceptable. So they tried to
(05:33):
shift the blame to the state. The state pushed back
and said, look, within twenty four hours of him missing
his meeting with his parole officer and cutting off his
ankle monitor, we did file arrest warrants and violations in
the system that should have been spotted by Cincinnati police.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
So after the incident with the so called girlfriend, I
can't imagine being a girlfriend of Mortca Black, but that's
a different issue. After the incident with the girlfriend, the
police went out and they ran immediately through. They found it,
okay that this is a guy that's wanted. We don't
know why he's wanted, but he's wanted. And then you
also indicate that the police did not track down Mordecai
(06:15):
Black after issuing a warren for his arrest because the burglary.
So the burglary took place on about April to sixth,
and a warren was an issued for his arrest until
May fifteenth, which is what five six weeks later. Do
you know why it took five or six weeks to
issue a warren for his arrest.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Well, actually those are two different crimes, well multiple. Mordecai
was very active. Police did not charge him for that
domestic disturbance or that break in because they with his girlfriend,
because they said they got conflicting stories and after consulting
with prosecutors, they did not charge him, so they This
(06:53):
is a whole separate other burglary that Mordecai Black is
accused of committing on Straight Street on May fifteenth, in
which he again broke into a home and to a
residents woke up and told them to leave, and he fled.
Police came out. They filed a warrant that day for burglary,
(07:18):
but it was never served, so he was never arrested
until after Patrick Herringer was killed.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So the May fifteenth, and you make the point A
Paula Christian of Channel nine in your story that the
police on May fifteenth, after the second burglary, and I
was told he committed many other offenses that he wasn't
arrested for, but they could couldn't prove it, so they
let it go.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
But on May fifteenth, they.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Knew it was a second burglary, they knew he was
wanted by parole, and they knew where he lived or
supposedly lived.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yes, that's what my reporting has determined. And all of
this is based on police records. So all of this
information came from the Cincinnati Police's own documents.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Why didn't they go out and get them after May fifteenth,
before the June fourth murder of Patrick?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, what's the reason?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I don't know. I asked for an interview with Cincinnati Police,
and I asked for an interview with somebody from the city,
and I did not My request for an interview was
not accepted. So if I had had the opportunity to
speak to them, I would have certainly ask those questions.
So what happens is the public is left to guess
(08:39):
and wonder and speculate, And you know, I would prefer
to ask those questions myself.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
But the city doesn't respond. They don't say no to you,
They simply don't respond at all.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Well, no, I was told the Cincinnati police declined, my
it's my request for an interview, so they said now.
But I think it's important to also point out is
we you know, they knew where he lived on this
Vine at this Vine Street home, and he continued to
(09:18):
return there. So if police wanted to find him, they
really could have just staked out this property because you know,
just an hour or less than an hour before this,
this terrible murder happened, we have on video from a
source a man who looks just like Mordecai Black leaving
(09:42):
that apartment again with a whole bunch of things in
his hand, shoes, clothes, and running out the door. And
around that same time, somebody from that address called nine
to one one and said we had a burglary and
somebody took jim shoes, keys, and other I so, and
the video tracks him directly from that house to right
(10:06):
in the same area of where the Herringers live. And
you know also he was carrying a knife.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Well, one answer to that question might be when I
talked to a state Rep. Stacy Abrams, who spent twenty
years as a cop in Cincinnati, and I spoke to
Ken Cober. It used to be that when cops showed
up for a shift, as it wasn't a lot going on,
they would assigned each police officer two or three warrants
to go find this guy, and then they would spend
(10:34):
time locating him because not much was going on. When
you're down two hundred and fifty street police officers in
the city of Cincinnati, there are many times as one
car for the Central Business District from the Ohio River
up through OTR. Ken Kober told me, there are many
occasions we have one car on duty from between midnight
and seven am one and if that person is in
(10:55):
a traffic situation, violation or whatever, no one's picking up
war Owrance to go look for anybody anymore because they're
overwhelmed and they don't have time. And that's what ken
Kober and State Rep. Stacy Abrams said that this is
a classic example where after May fifteenth, there was an
active warrant for the arrest of Mordecai Black. They knew
(11:17):
where he lived, they knew his dangerous proclivities. They also
had the information from April six burglary that they decided
not to pursue, and they knew this guy was a
vicious criminal. And because of staffing problems, I was told
that we don't take warrants anymore on a shift to
go find somebody.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Does that make sense to you.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Well, you know, these police officers, they are following the
directive of what their boss tells them to do. So,
you know, if their boss is saying, you know, you've
got to go patrol north over the Rhine and that's
what you're gonna do, or you're going to go patrol
Smail Park, or you're going to you know, I'm sure
(12:04):
that their boss is not telling them go deliver these
warrants or go look for these people, these fugitives, and
they're not doing it. They're they're just following the orders
that their bosses are giving them, would be my interpretation.
And you know, maybe maybe it does require more police officers.
(12:24):
But these are questions for the public. I mean, the
public has to decide what kind of city they want,
what they want their police to do, what is important
to them. These these are questions for them. All I'm
doing is giving them all the information so they can
bring these questions to their elected leaders and their police
(12:47):
chiefs and ask themselves.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And Paul, that's a great comment. The officers will do
what they're told to do. I head on a guest
about a year ago and out of front of Saint
Francis Sarah Church on Central Park in which is open
air drug dealing, open air prostitution, human excrement is deposited
on the alleys and streets around that previously great Catholic church.
(13:11):
The Catholic and priest in charge shut the door and
locked and he couldn't deal with all what was going on.
And police officers in uniform and cars were drove drive
by open air drug dealing and open air prostitution and
do nothing about it. And there were three or four
business owners that said, we can't, we can't live like this.
There's no business being conducted, and they had to close
(13:32):
their businesses. And that event brought little or no action
from the City of Cincinnati other than holding a news
conference which happened yesterday in which the mayor and the
city manager and the police chief dislocated their shoulders, patting
themselves on the back about what a great job they're doing,
how much crime is down, but we know it's not down.
(13:53):
We know it's bad, and now every night there's more murders.
Had on about an hour ago Steve Gooden, in which
there was a street takeover in Clifton that was on
Channel nine in which large numbers of individuals dancing on
city cars, open air drug use, selling beer and drugs
(14:13):
out the back of cars, brandishing firearms the firetruck and
Clifton could not get out of the fire station for
a call the number of people and that has caused
no stir at all. And all you can do is
report the facts as you've said, and we get the
city we deserve. And if they spend their time complimenting
themselves what a great job they've done. Without without referencing
(14:35):
these kinds of events, we're going to end up like
downtown Chicago, New York and Philadelphia. But Paula Christian, thank you,
and you put it out there. And the city had
six hits to pick up Mordecai Black and failed to
do so, resulting June fourth and the murder. Especially after
May fifteenth, it was obvious this guy was a danger
to the community and the city police simply did not respond.
(14:58):
But Paula Christian, thanks, thank you, and good luck to
you and all the folks in Channel nine.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Thank you very much, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Paula Christian, thank you. Oh, let's continue with more. There
you have it. The facts will set us free.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
And when the mayor says we didn't know about it,
six times, they knew about it and did nothing.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Bill Cunningham seven hundred wold
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.