@DrWendyWalsh (05/14) Hour 2

We are talking all things Mother's Day! How to cope if Mother's Day is difficult for you. Why Mom's and adult children don't talk! Dr. Sarah Shoppe-Sullivan is talking the difficult relationship between Mother's and their adult children. It's all on KFIAM-640!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you'relistening to kf I Am six forty,
the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on demandon the iHeartRadio app. Kay, bye,
Am six forty. You have doctorWendy Walsh for you. This is
the Doctor Wendy Walls Show. I'mtaking your calls at least one more call
and then I want to get intosome things that you should always say to
keep love alive. But first wehave a caller named Mike on the line.

(00:23):
Hi, Mike, it's doctor Wendy. Doctor Wendy. What's your question?
You're doing? Oh, thank you? What's your question? Love?
Yeah? Question is what you're feelingabout the no contact rule? So a
breakup? Yeah. So there's researchon this, and I can only quote
the research. The problem with socialmedia, the problem with hanging out with

(00:46):
the same people who are hanging outwith that person, the problem with checking
in to see if they're still okay, is it extends the grieving time.
And so by going no contact,it's not like you're mad at the person
and you can't ever you know,eventually be friends. But there has to
be a period where you're not continuallytriggered that means you've got an unfollow defriend

(01:08):
on social If there are friends thatyou have in common, you say,
hey, you know it, justdon't invite me to things where they're going
to be. And you know,if you have to switch gyms and dry
cleaners so you won't run into them, that's just part of the healing process.
It's a gift to yourself. SoI'm a big proponent only because the
research supports it of going no contactfor a period of time until you're feeling

(01:30):
bad, until you get your mojoback. That's what I think, and
then how long you think that oughtto be. It's different for everybody,
isn't it. I you know thereare relationships, Yeah, there are relationships
I've had in my life or twentyyears ago. I would never talk to
that person again. Okay, itwould trigger me too much, right,

(01:51):
But there are other people that Imight have dated for a short period of
time and then after a year orso they become sort of a business contact
friend whatever, because it wasn't that. It depends how much passion there was,
how much emotion there was. Butanyway, thanks for calling my going
on contact toll. You get feelingbetter, alrighty? I've been talking earlier

(02:12):
about phrases that you should never sayin a relationship, especially during the heat
of the moment, because they causemore injury. But there are some things
that research shows that if you sayon the regular, on a regular basis,
actually can keep love alive. Itcan help continue to grow love in
your relationships. So let's go throughsome of my favorite phrases. How about

(02:37):
starting with daily compliments, things likeyou look great, or you look fabulous,
or I love when you do that. Oh, I love your smile.
I always tell my boyfriend, Ilove your smile. That's what I
say, just a little comment herethere. It really does make you feel
better. Granted, I'm single asthe day is long, but i was
having a really bad day the otherday and I'm all crying and feel I

(03:00):
saw you got a great hug.But the guy I would talking to was
like, you know, I knowyou're going through it, but you look
so beautiful while you're crying, andI'm like, yeah, it helps.
It does help, just a littlecompliment. There's also tons of research to
support those simple words of thank you, but not just thank you. If

(03:23):
it's especially important that you thank yourpartner every day, for the little things,
for the tiny little things. Igot to thank my boyfriend today for
the big things. I forgot totell you, Kaylo, you know what
he got me for Mother's Day?Why I'm not even his mother. So
I have a new stove that's aninduction Bernard, you know what that is.
It's done with like magnets or something. I don't know, and only

(03:43):
certain kinds of pots and pans canwork on it. So I had done
some googling, and I said,cast iron does work. So you bought
me a whole set of cast ironpans that are bright blue blueberry color.
They're just gorgeous. They're like worksof art. He is white. Just
you just stumbled upon gold with thatone. It is so sweet, I
did. I'm really lucky, reallylucky. But we work at it,
we do the stuff. But anyway, I thank him not only for the

(04:05):
big things, but the little things, like you know, small things,
giving me a glass of water atnight, doing the sweetest little things.
But the other thing the research saysis not only thank them regularly for the
little things, but tell them howit improves your life, tell them why
it means a lot to you,And then you know, when I say,

(04:26):
your relationship is a garden, waterwhat you want to grow. Don't
water the weeds by criticizing them.Just literally say thank you for all the
little stuff. Here's a good one. Apparently, when we're in relationships,
we're in relationships with human beings,and apparently human beings make mistakes. And
when they make mistakes, instead ofjumping on it going I can't believe you

(04:48):
did that. Oh my god,why did you do that? How about
simply saying it's all right, baby, I love you anyway, I love
you anyway. You see, weall know when we've messed up. But
having somebody there go is okay.You know, I'm gonna give you a
pass on that one. I loveyou anyway. Another big one, and

(05:10):
this happened recently. I was ina stressful situation about something and I called
my guy and he unfortunately was like, you know how, guys, it's
not their fault. They're really great. This way they try to solve the
problem instead of giving emotional support,well you should do this, you should
call that person, and you shouldwrite that letter, you should do whatever.
And instead I said, I justneed to know that you got my

(05:35):
back, and then he said thosemagic words, We're going to get through
this, baby, We're gonna getthrough this, beautiful. And then the
best phrase, I tell you you'renot alone. Right, We're gonna get
we were the royal we Yeah,we're gonna get through this, right because
this too will pass um or onthe same line, understand you know you

(06:00):
say something and instead of them sayingwhy do you feel that way? Why
did you do that? Why didyou say that? I understand you feel
gotten. You feel heard much betterthan make you feel crazy and unheard.
Yeah, here's another good one.What can I do for you? Or,
as I like it worded, howcan I help you? I say

(06:23):
that all the time to my guy. I say that to my kids,
how can I help? You canwhen they they're going on about how can
I help? We all need tosay that more often to everybody in our
lives, co workers, bosses,our kids, our lovers. How can
I help? That's all we wantto know, how we can help?

(06:43):
All Right? Here's another phrase.I love write this down. You need
to say this when you get hometonight. I believe in you. When
you know we have these moments wherewe're feeling down and our partner is a
little bit our cheerleader, and youneed to know that they believe in you.
And as I've said before, theresearch is very clear, long term

(07:06):
happy couples actually really value their partner. And even when they're fighting, they
don't forget who they fell in lovewith. They still value their partner.
They think they got a good deal. And so when you say I believe
in you, do you know whoyou're reminding not just them, You're reminding
your own brain of why you're therein the first place. How about this

(07:30):
one, I trust you. Ihave said that to my Julio. I've
said I've trust I've trust you tomake a good decision. I've trust you.
I trust you to make a gooddecision. Actually here's another one,
but this was really important. Hesaid it to me because he realized.
So he sometimes hasn't done it ina while, Thank Goodness, goes home

(07:50):
to visit, you know, friends, family, whatever, on the East
Coast, and he will say whenhe's there, every time, he'll say,
you know, back here, Irealize I'm a New Yorker. I
just love New York. I loveAnd he'll go on and on the whole
time, I'm talking about how muchhe loves New York. This terrifies me

(08:11):
because, first of all, I'mnot a New Yorker. And secondly,
I feel like all the time I'vespend in New York, I was living
in a filing cabinet. Sorry,Kayla, I know you're from New York.
I'm from New Jersey, but itreally felt like I was living in
a filing cabinet. Agree about NewYork. So anyway, he can tell
that. I get a little bitinsecure whenever he goes on one of those

(08:31):
bands. Luckily it hasn't been fora while, but anyway, and so
what he does is he comes backand he says to me, I'd rather
be with you than New York.That's what he says. I'd rather be
with you. D rather be withyou. You are more important. No
matter where you are in the world, is where I want to be.
I know. Isn't that great?You know we should all be saying this

(08:54):
to our partner on a regular basis. I'm glad we're together, Appreciate your
relationship, Appreciate that you've got aperson, You've got a buddy to go
through life with. And say itregularly. You know, I say it
over and over, and I'm goingto say it again. Water what you
want to grow, don't water theweeds. Because here's what's happening. When

(09:18):
you say nice things to your partner, your brain is listening and you are
reminding your own brain of why you'rethere. I'm glad we're together. You
know this one I used to sayto my kids when they were little.
I used to say to them,both of them at different times. Privately,
they never knew I said it toboth of them. I said,

(09:39):
you're the daughter I always wished for. You can say that to your partner.
You're the person I always wished for. You're my dream person. Such
a reminder that that person's not taken, taken for brained exactly, that you're
so special that I went my wholelife and I wish for you, and

(10:00):
you came. And finally, let'snot forget these words have so much value.
I really feel safe with you,or you make me feel safe,
right, If it's true, youdefinitely want to do listen. I know
it's Mother's Day. I know mostof you had your Mother's Day brunch and

(10:22):
you think it's over. But Ido want to talk about something that I
haven't addressed. So much yet,which is those people out there who may
have really complicated feelings about motherhood Ior Mother's Day, either because they've lost
their mother, either because they've hada negative relationship with their mother. Maybe

(10:46):
they've been trying to become a motherand there's just a lot of feeling of
loss around there. Let's talk aboutit when we come back. As well
as I want to pull you offthe guilt train, moms, there are
ways to be a good mom ina hostile world that don't take as much
time as you think. You arelistening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on
kf I AM six forty. We'relive everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're

(11:11):
listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demandfrom kf I AM six forty Am six
forty. You have doctor Wendy Walshwith you. This is the Doctor Wendy
Walsh showing. Mother's Day is awonderful celebration of women who devoted their lives
to raising their children, but forsome people it can be a day they

(11:35):
can be very triggering. Some peoplehave had a mother who let them down,
or a mother who wasn't even there, a mother who gave them up
for adoption, a mother who passedaway early, a mother who was cruel,
a mother who was hurtful. Maybeyou're a woman who's been trying hard

(11:58):
to become a mother and IVF isn'tworking. Maybe you're a mother whose relationship
with your adult children is challenged.This can be a very complicated day.
There's a reason why when you goto therapy often one of the first questions

(12:20):
a therapist might ask is, sotell me about your mother. I know
fathers are super important, and certainlypeople can have daddy issues, and dads
can be hurtful and traumatizing and wonderfuland supportive. But it is our mother
who grows us literally inside her bodyand nurtures us with our body, with

(12:46):
her body. It is the mostprimal relationship, mother and child. I
want you to know if today wasa complicated day for you, you're not
alone. One research hole done byyou GOV revealed that about a thirty percent
of both men and women don't celebrateMother's Day at all. They just ignore

(13:09):
it, just let it past.I want to you know. I lost
my mother to breast cancer when Iwas thirty, and so for me,
I take time to sort of honorher memories. And there are some things
you can do if you've lost yourmother, You can reflect on her and

(13:31):
her memories. You know, whenI became a mother myself, my mother
somehow came back from the dead becauseshe came right out my lips when I
was under stress all of a sudden. You know, I had two brown
eyed kids, and I would say, they say, Mom, where's my?
Where's my? And I go there, right under your two blue eyes.

(13:52):
I have blue eyes. I heardthat over and over again. Just
look. So anyway, maybe youcould even take some time to light a
candle for your lost mother, towrite a letter to her, to tell
her how good you're doing on yourown. Maybe you want to donate to

(14:13):
a charity that she supported, volunteerfor a cause that was really important to
her, plant a tree in hermemory. My mom's favorite flower is a
yellow rose. I actually have alittle tattoo, a memory to memorial tattoo
of a yellow rose. You don'tknow where, Kayla. Even if I

(14:33):
had a bikini on, you wouldn'tsee it. I didn't know you were
a tattooed art. It was amemorial tattoo. But here's the problem that
they don't tell you. The tattooedto artist does not tell you this.
When you're thirty and your mother hasjust died and you go to Sunset Boulevard
and there's that guy leaning over youthat when you get pregnant, it stretches
out big and then it shrinks again. And then you get pregnant and it

(14:56):
stretches out big and then it shrinksagain. Now it's just a blur that
happens. Yes, whoa, thisis a blob and a blur. It
had her name, Frankie, andit had her yellow rose, and that's
just a blur. I'm so scaredfor the future of my tattoos. That's
right. Oh all you young people, wait till you're walking around the pool
when you're eighty. It will bea site anyway. So, since my

(15:22):
mother's flower was a yellow rose,wherever I own or rent, anywhere I
plant a yellow rose, I alwayshave a yellow rose in my garden.
That was beautiful. That's a beautifuldedication and that rose bush. You know,
I have to tell you something reallybad. Can you believe one time
the guy who I want you,who wanted to get back at me,
one time he came in the nightand he dug up my mother's yellow rose

(15:46):
and tore it down. Yeah,I had a man still her ring that
I had hit her obituaries and herpictures like six stuff. Oh my gosh,
oh my god. I will saythis, if you've lost your embrace
your friends, that means you've gota mom whole that you need to fill

(16:06):
and you have to actively do that. You know. Sometimes, you know,
I always recommend people go to atherapists because I'm you know, a
proponent, a beneficiary of good therapy. But I often will say that therapy
is like reparenting. It's like yourtherapist becomes your internal mother in some way.

(16:29):
I do want to say that ifyou are somebody who has been trying
to become a mother, this canbe a very tender day if you've been
having challenges, and I just wantyou to know that your emotional responses are
valid. You deserve to feel exactlythe rainbow of crazy emotions you may be
feeling on this day. And Ialso encourage you to do things, find

(16:55):
things that are comforting and nurturing foryou, and talk to your friends about
what you're feeling. You're supportive friendsfor all of us who may have complicated
relationships with our mothers, It's importantthat we focus on positive relationships in our
lives. You know, at theend of the day, we are given

(17:19):
this life. Our childhood may befilled with trauma or big bumps or small
bumps, but how our life endsis up to us. Whether it is
attending to all those dings and dingsthat happened in early childhood, whether it
is doing things differently as a parentyourself. One of the things that I

(17:42):
often say is when I became amother, is that all I hope to
do is make different mistakes than myparent. And that's evolution, that's growth.
Right, you realize that didn't work. What else can I do?
But they often say that friends arethe family we choose, and it is

(18:04):
incumbent on us to reach out andfind that social support. Find those friends,
make those friends. And how doyou make friends? You be a
good friend, You care for others. You'll be curious about their lives,
You ask them questions about themselves.You find ways to slowly become closer and
more intimate. And I think youknow I've talked it last it last week.

(18:26):
The week before I was talking aboutthe loneliness epidemic. I think it
was just last week that it's reallyup to all of us to reach out
and fill that void that we mayhave when we come back. I want
to talk about my experience as amother and a few of the things that
I learned. First of all,I think our culture pathologizes mother motherhood way

(18:49):
too much. I want to pullyou off the guilt train and give you,
especially if you're a mom of smallchildren, or maybe a grandmother and
you've got some small grandkids, comein to visit. I want to give
you a little bit of advice frommy life of what I feel worked,
and a lot of it came fromtextbooks that I put into practice so that
we can all be a good enoughmother when we come back. You're listening

(19:15):
to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show onkf I AM six forty. We're live
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You'relistening to doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from
kf I AM sixty KIM six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.
Motherhood's hard, It's a burden.Our culture doesn't make it any easier.

(19:37):
When I became a mother, Ialso became a feminist, and I'll
tell you why. You know what, women can be men until a mother
walks in the room. All ofa sudden, you realized how disadvantaged and
disabled you are. I mean,I used to complain. I was a
news reporter, right, and weused to go out to cover news stories,
and the information officer from the LAPDwould step out and you wouldn't know

(20:00):
which door he was coming, andyou'd watch your male colleagues take off in
their suit and flat shoes, andI'd be in my high heels and pantyhose
and pencil skirt, trying to chaseafter him, trying to keep my hair
look good while I was trying toget the same sound bite. And I
was already mad about that, okay, But then I became a mother and
realized that every time I step outsidemy door, I have to pay someone

(20:26):
fifteen dollars an hour to replace me. If I want to go to the
gym, if I want to gogrocery shopping, if I want to just
take a walk and take a breath. So when people say, oh,
well, women make like eighty percentor seventy seven cents on a man's dollar,
I go, not mothers. Theyhave to take that seventy seven cents
and split it in half and shareit with another woman in the form of

(20:48):
childcare. I literally, my heartgoes out to women who stand at a
bus stop at six in the morningfeeding their kid Thailand all so they can
drop it at a daycare on timeand not be fined, So they can
get to work on time and punchtheir cart in on time and not be
reprimmanded, not lose money so theycan pay for more formula for their baby.
Blah blah blah. It's a cycle. It's so so hard. More

(21:14):
than twenty five percent of children inAmerica are raised by single mothers. I
was a single mother for eighteen years. I'm going to tell you a story
where I first learned the term pathologizemotherhood, making motherhood pathological. Let me
explain. So we lived at thebeach. My three year old loved to

(21:36):
run in the waves. I wouldchase after her and pull her a little
curly head out of the foaming waves, and she would come up sputtering and
coughing, and I thought, well, this is no way to learn how
to swim, and you are goingto drown. But she needs to learn
how to swim. So I askedaround the mom world and they sent me
to a woman who in her backyardswimming pool teaches toddlers how to swim.
So we go and my daughter hasher first little swimming and it went very

(22:00):
well. And then the woman gotout of the pool, got the kid
out of the pool. I hadmy back turned and I was getting a
towel. And what do you thinkmy three year old did. No,
did a running leap and jumped rightback in the pool. No. So
of course the woman actually was closer, so she jumped in and grabbed her
and pulled her up and got herto the stairs. And like, the

(22:22):
woman could not get my kid.I don't know, if you know.
I have a really strong willed daughterand she's twenty five now and save in
the world. She's fine. Butand so the woman couldn't get her out
of the pool. So I wasusing a technique that I had been taught
at preschool, because I'm learning motherhoodfrom everybody around me. At the preschool,
they said, give kids some autonomy, give them a choice. So

(22:44):
I say, Carrington, would youlike the blue towel the red towel?
We're getting out now. Which towelwould you like? Because we're getting out
of the pool now, right,And this woman lost her whatever and started
saying to me, you need tojust grab your child and get her out
of that pool. And then shecalled me later that night and just read
me the Riot Act, told meI was a terrible mother, told me

(23:07):
that she'd asked around and there wasanother public school or public pool where I
also didn't keep an eye on mydaughter, which really like, now she's
like shaming me in the village thepool instructor girls. So I obviously she
was triggered from something that happened toher in her life and I had nothing
to do with me. So Igo to therapy with tears down in my
chin, saying, oh my god, I'm a bad mother, and I

(23:29):
can't believe she said I'm bad mother. And my therapist said, don't let
this woman pathologize motherhood. Mothers arenot at fault for everything that happens to
a child. It used to bean entire village that helped raise a child,
and now we put everything on themother, so much pressure. You

(23:51):
know, back in the nineteen I'mgonna say forties fifties fifties, I think
a psychotherapist named Donald Winnicott came upwith this eerie of parenthood called the good
enough mother. And Donald Winnicott believedthat the best kind of mother was the
mother who wasn't too doting and solvedkids problems for them and was so overprotective

(24:15):
that the kid became disabled. Right. And it also wasn't the neglectful parent
who let the kids stumble and falland hurt themselves too much. It was
the good enough mother that allowed,because she was a human being, our
children to grow in our gaps,to grow in those moments when we couldn't
be there from them. One ofthe things I learned from the director of

(24:37):
our preschool, Mary Hartzel, who'sstill who's passed away now, but gave
me so much wisdom. She said, all kids need our twenty minutes a
day of undivided attention from a parent. That means no other kids, no
technology. Literally, she said,call it you know, mommy, and
the kid's name, my case wasCarrington or Jones moumming care in special time.

(25:00):
Have them make a little sign ontheir door that says do not come
in mommy and Carrington special time,and you do anything the child wants to
do in that twenty minutes. Youdon't have deep conversations, just what do
you want to do? Can't involvetechnology though, you can't sit and watch
a video together. Do something thatis child led for twenty minutes a day.
If you have three kids, that'sin an hour, right? Is

(25:23):
that right? Three times twenty sixty'sright? I do? Okay, And
so that's all you have to doto be the good enough mother is listen
to your child. Also, Ido want to say this from experience,
allow as much father as possible,whether you're married or whether you're single.
Do not push that father away.I don't care if you don't like the

(25:45):
way he parents. You know what, they're that child and that man are
going to form their own relationship intheir own way, and it's not up
to you to get involved in that. Okay, So let fatherhood happen.
Don't be such a perfectionist mother thatyou criticize his parenting and then he gives
up, throws up his hands inthe air and go okay, you do

(26:07):
it right. Also, and thisis vital. Build a village. You
know. One of the things Iwould do is I would use my house
as the play date house, andI would as many kids over as possible,
because in my mind, I wasbanking childcare. I was banking free
childcare because I knew who I couldreach out to when I needed them.
We actually, when the kids werelittle, did a unique thing. We

(26:30):
did a playgroup with toddlers where onemother always got to leave, so it
was free time for a mother togo to the gym or shopping or do
whatever. And then every week itwould rotate a different mother would leave,
but say there were four or fivelittle toddlers there. I also want to
say this, give your kids yourtime, not the stuff. I remember

(26:51):
going to therapy when my kids werelittle and crying because my kids didn't have
a yard. They're being raised inapartments, and I felt this was a
travesty that they needed some help,playground equipment, a jungle gym in the
backyard, and they needed a yardto play in. And she said,
a baby's home is his mother's body, and if you have to leave to
go make money so they can havea jungle gym, they're not going to

(27:14):
care about that jingle gym. Achild's home is its parent's body, hold
them close and help them leave whenthey hit middle school or older. Teacher
eighth graders how to rise city buses. Pack them with summer programs that enrich
them. Help them build a resumefor college. Help them in high school

(27:36):
get part time jobs, get adriver's license, help them launch. The
favorite bit of wisdom that I evergot from the director of our preschool is,
if you do your job well,you work yourself out of a job.
And that's what parento it is.When we come back, a special
guest, a researcher who studies whysome mothers and adult children are no longer

(28:00):
talking. You're listening to the DoctorWendy Walsh Show and KFI AM six forty.
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh
on demand from KFI AM six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walsh
Show on KFI AM six forty.We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Okay, we have been talking aboutmothers. We have been talking about motherhood,

(28:23):
and I know for many people,as I've said, coping with Mother's
Day is sometimes difficult, especially ifyou have a difficult relationship with your mother
or a difficult relationship with your adultchild. So I was going through the
research today and I found this reallyinteresting study called mother's attributions for estrangement from

(28:48):
their adult children. So that's abunch of psychobabble to basically mean why mothers
and children aren't talking? And Iwas able to score the lead researcher on
the show. I'd like to welcomefrom the Ohio State University doctor Sarah Shoppy
Sullivan. Hi. How are you, doctor Sarah. I'm doing well.

(29:08):
Thanks for inviting me on Happy Mother'sDay. Yes, Happy Mother's Day to
all the moms out there. Somy first question is what compelled you to
want to study this particular subject matter. Well, most of my research has
actually focused on parent child relationships whenchildren are young. But I partnered in

(29:30):
this study with a clinical psychologist whoworks with adults who are estranged from their
their children, and I've got reallyinterested in the topic because it really hadn't
much occurred to me. I thinkwe so often think of parent child relationships
is a lasting and permanent and soI got really interested in the idea that

(29:52):
that's not necessarily the case, andthat there are some adult children who aren't
on good terms with their parents,and that perhaps some people think this is
perhaps increasing in terms of its prevalence. Well, we're going to get into
the reasons why in a minute,but I want to just tell people the
jaw dropping statistic that I read whenI read your study that freaked me out.

(30:15):
What your study found, and itwas a study of more than a
thousand mothers that fifty two fifty twopercent of the mother's surveyed were estranged from
a daughter, and more than halfof those moms revealed that they've gone for
more than a year without aiding contactwith their children. WHOA, what is

(30:38):
going on? Yeah? Well,one thing you have to keep in mind
is that this study was of overa thousand moms, but these were moms
who were interested in the topic ofestrangement. Okay, so this is likely
going to be a sample of momsthat are more likely to report estrangement from
their adult children than other moms.So other study don't suggest the prevalence is

(31:00):
that high, which is good.Yeah, but there are some other there's
some other research coming out of somecolleagues labs at O'hao State that suggests that
it's about like between six and tenpercent of aum adult children report being estranged
for moms. But actually, what'sinteresting to me is, and it's Mother's

(31:23):
Day, so we don't necessarily needto focus on this, but about a
quarter of adults report being estranged fromfathers. So this is not an insignificant
phenomenon even for mother child relationships.But thankfully it's not quite as high in
the general population as it was inour particular study, So well, that's

(31:45):
a relief. But you ask peoplebasically why and what were the most kind
answers? Why are people as strainedfrom a strange from there? Yeah,
and our study was kind of uniquebecause a lot of the research, which
makes little sense, has focused onthe adult child's perspective on estrangement, right,
and we focused on the mother's perspectiveson why their kids were, you

(32:07):
know, out of contact or invery infrequent contact with them. And what
the mothers thought really was that alot of it had to do with somebody
else turning their child against them,for example, an ex spouse or an
adult child's spouse or partner, Sothat was one reason they gave. They
also talked about their adult child's struggleswith mental health problems or with addiction,

(32:31):
and they so those were some ofthe top reasons that they talked about,
which are so different from other researchwhich has focused on, you know,
the children, the adult children's viewson why they're estranged from their parents.
Yeah, you know, we don'twant to blame the moms here it is
Mother's Day, but in some sense, I do believe that we reap what

(32:53):
we saw in some cases. Andagain again the pressure to be we've talked
about is how hard it is tobe a good mother in a hostile environment
like modern American capitalism that doesn't necessarilysupport motherhood and all the pressures on mothers
that are out there. So wewant to pull moms off the guilt train

(33:13):
as much as possible. But doyou think we're seeing a rising number of
you know, attachment disorders, insecureattachment style bonding issues early in life.
Do you think that could be contributingit to it? I certainly think it's
possible. I think you're absolutely rightto point out that our country doesn't do

(33:34):
a good job of supporting mothers orparents in general. And you know,
with the increasing pressure on parents,there are norms of intensive parenting. You
know, that suggests that parents needto do all these things for their kids.
The role of parents has really changedover time, and so has been
children's idea of what parent child relationshipsshould be, and the idea that children,

(33:58):
you know, can grow up andthink I didn't get what I needed
for my parents. You know,they're they're my parents, but that doesn't
mean I have to have He doesn'tmean I'm obligated to have a relationship with
them if I don't think it's inmy best interests. So I think there
have been some changes over time thathad contributed to this. And also I
do think that expectations for a parents, no matter the fact that we don't

(34:21):
give them a lot of support,the expectations for a parents seem to keep
going up and up and up,and especially for there's a lot of pressure
on others. And so something elsewe found in our study that sometimes mothers
would say, you know, Idid the best that I could. You
know, I was, you know, divorced mom. Maybe they were single
for a while and I was tryingto read my child, and some mothers

(34:42):
would even acknowledge, you know,I don't think I did the best job
I possibly could, but you know, this is what I was dealing with
at the time. So I thinkthat there are these different sort of perspectives
on what you know a mother shouldbe. We have these idealized versions of
what you know a good mother is. But then you know, we make
it very, very difficult for anyoneto meet those you know, we used

(35:04):
to have a village and a tribeand neighbors and cousins and aunties and grandmothers,
and now we put it all onvery often single mothers. I myself
was a single mother for eighteen years, and let me tell you, it
is no easy walk. So Iwill say that as far as the general
population before we go, if youhad to guestimate it's not fifty percent of

(35:27):
adult children not talking to their mothers, what would you guess it might be.
I think it's more like six toten percent of the general population.
I feel it. Yeah, itjust depends on you know, what sample
you're using. But the best sampleis out there of just the general population
of adults suggests that it's a smallernumber. It doesn't mean it's any less

(35:47):
significant for the adult children or themoms who are experiencing it, obviously,
but it's not um you know,it's prevalent. It is fifty percent.
Thankfully, yes, well, thankyou so much for being with us.
I want to remind everybody that's listeningif you have a difficult, challenging relationship
with a parent, there's always roomfor healing. And also there are other

(36:09):
surrogate people you can choose in yourlife, and it may even be a
good clinical therapist who can help youget to a point of learning to love
yourself. Doctor Sarah Shappy Sullivan atthe Ohio State University, thank you so
much for being with us. Thankyou, and thank you for listening to
the Doctor Wendy Walls show here onKFI AM six forty. Reminder, you

(36:31):
can follow me on my social mediaanywhere. The handle is at doctor Wendy
Walsh. But I'm always here foryou on iHeartRadio and KFI every Sunday from
seven to nine pm. We'll seeyou next week. You've been listening to
doctor Wendy Walsh. You can alwayshear us live on kf I AM six
forty from seven to nine pm onSunday and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.