March 15, 2022 • 51 mins
It’s Part One of the most dramatic finale in Bachelor history! Ashley called in Kaitlyn Bristowe to help recap this madness, and to hear a unique perspective on how Clayton is handling things as a lead.
Is Clayton in love?... Or just in lust?? Kaitlyn and Ashley try to figure it out.
And, we get a sneak peek at Kaitlyn and Jason’s wedding plans
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with IR Radio. Hello, everyone, welcome to the Almost Famous podcast.
Big episode today. I mean that's a Ben says every week,
but like, seriously, this is the finale, and this finale
is insane and we have the best guests I could
possibly imagine breaking it down with. Today. It is Caitlin Bristow. Hello, Caitlin,
(00:25):
Thank you so much for taking Thank you so much
for taking the time out of your insane schedule. You guys,
just a little preview as to um what Caitlin's past
twenty four hours have been. She was on the live
show and now she's on a bus to San Diego
to do Dancing with the Stars Live show today, and
(00:47):
she did so many interviews and I'm probably probably a
podcast of your own in between then, and somehow she
was able to squeeze in an hour for us. Well,
I'm so sorry that I'm like literally on a bus
bouncing around back here, Like I hope the audio sounds
good for all of your listeners, because I am I
hots it is. It sounds good. It's funny because we
(01:07):
get bios for everybody. Stept that I don't really need
a bio for you. And it's just like these are
the things that Caitlin has going on her life as
a constant. In addition to you know, being the Bachelorette
House for the past few seasons, she has her podcast
Off the Vine or Scrunching Hair accessory company, Do Edit,
her wine label, Spin Sparrows, and the Dancing with the
Stars Live toor so like, yeah, it's this girl just
(01:30):
does it all. And you are an amazing business woman
and I'm so proud of you. Okay, thank you. You're
the most perfect person to have here today. Like I said,
because you said last week in your interview with Clayton
that there are some ways that you can relate to him.
So can we like just hit it off the bat? Um?
(01:51):
You had a little controversion in your season because um,
yeah there was like some outing you sleeping with you
know people, And how do you feel how do you
feel like this season has like it's do you think
it's just always gonna be sloppy? Is it always slobby?
(02:13):
If you sleep with somebody who isn't you're gonna be
your final pick? I keep saying, I'm like like, Okay,
I get that there are people that come on the
show that are virgins who are the leads, and of
course they aren't sleeping with people in the fantasy suite,
but there I would like to know how many bachelor
and bachelorettes go to the fantasy fantasy suite and sleep
with more than one person. It's literally part of the process,
(02:35):
in my opinion, to do that. I don't think it's
right or wrong. I think it depends on each individual
of like what they need from the like to to
figure out what they need in that relationship to move
forward for forever um. So I just think, like I
thought the show and I thought the viewers had come
such a long way because I obviously slept with more
(02:57):
than one person on my season and got so much
BackFlash and shaming and all of that that came with it.
But then kind of Brown sleeps with you know, more
than one person and four times in a windmill, and
everyone was cheering for her, and I was like, yes,
sex positive, here we go, like we're finally coming around,
and like everyone was like he locks fun and I
(03:21):
was like yes, and I like loved that people were
accepting of it. And now Payton does it and because
again it's like I don't know. I don't know why,
but everyone's like shaving him for it, and he I
just think he's like in over his head with falling
in love with people. Like I think he's just he's
just in over his head. That's the best way I
can explain it, Okay, except for my issue, and Ben
(03:45):
and I have made it super clear over the past
few weeks. Was not him sleeping with everyone or two
of them. It was the way he spoke to Susie. Yes,
one thousand percent, And I just don't know if I
could get over that. Um, I totally agree with you.
I and he knows that, like he said to me
(04:08):
watching it back, he was like, I totally handled that poorly,
like he said, he didn't guess light. I'm I agree.
And then some people have told me, like that term
is so overused now that you're using it like me,
like I use it in an interview in the two
general sense, but like if you really look at the
(04:29):
psychological definition of it, maybe he wasn't. And I'm like, okay, sorry.
What I mean then is that it was like manipulative.
It was manipulative. It really was, And and I think
he knows that watching it back, But I always have
to give people the benefit of the doubt. Not that
I think anyone should be excused for talking to anyone
like that, but I will say that when you are
(04:51):
at the end of that journey in that place, especially Clayton,
he is so emotional, He is an absolute train wreck.
He is just like at this point, I feel like
he doesn't even know who he is, where he is,
what he feels. And so I think he was just
like so emotionally drained, and I think and I think
(05:11):
he told me this on my podcast, that he had
this feeling that Susie wanted to be the bachelorette, so
he was told us the same thing, And like, I
can understand. I can understand watching it back with that mentality,
you're literally just questioning everyone and every intention and you're
like do I even know these people? And like who
are you? And like I don't have my family, I
(05:32):
don't have my friends. Like you're just such a mess
at that point that like you probably aren't acting the
way you usually would in real life. Yeah, yeah, I understand.
But at the same time, it was a rough that.
You know, we we left off last week rough and
now we enter this week with another questionable decision. I
(05:55):
suppose well when he asked, you know, and he kind
of like begs boat girl to stay um at the
road ceremony. But first I want to ask you two questions. First,
do you think that he really is in love with
these girls, all three of them? Or is he in
lust with all three of them? Um? Probably lust? I
(06:17):
mean I I just always you know, I've been in
that position, and it's like, how if you love someone
like you know all of their flaws and you love
them for their flaws and their insecurities and their mistakes
and their good times and they're bad times and their
ups and downs, and you don't know someone well enough
to be fully in love with them on that show, um,
(06:40):
but you can definitely fall in love and be in lust. Um.
So I think it's probably lust for all three of them.
Because I don't want to speak for him, but I
don't think he has much life experience, like with like
relationships and seeing the world and going through like you know,
what a lot of people have before they find the
(07:01):
love of their life. So I think he really has
three great women that I like. Don't fault him for
falling for all of them because they seem incredible. Um,
and I think he's just like, what have I Like,
what have I gotten myself into? Because I really I
think he's falling in love with all three of them,
but it's probably lost. Yeah, Okay, that completely leads me
(07:22):
into my next question. He's the second Bachelor we've had
in a row who has had basically no experience with
the franchise. Did not you know, Matt James nubi completely
and then Clayton. I mean what was he there for
two weeks on Michelle season? Like filming wise, probably about
two weeks, so practically no experience, doesn't know how it.
(07:47):
I saw Blake talking on Twitter and Instagram about how
he was like, he has no he doesn't have like
the empathy for these women that a normal quote normal
lead who made it top three would have. Who knows
how difficult being in the top three is. So is
this just like a big learning lesson for ABC that
(08:11):
they need to be casting for like a quote successful season,
be casting some somebody who has experienced or is it
or is this great TV? And and we are and
then like the production and all that doesn't care whether
it leads in happily ever after. Well, I mean it's
in I don't know if great TV would also show
(08:35):
in the numbers the numbers and the rains are down.
So yeah, so it's it's fascinating to think of it
from that point of view, where, um, you know, is
it great TV because the ratings are down or is
that just because everyone is like watching Netflix now or like,
I don't know, but I have thought that this season
wasn't like it was. I always say it's hard to
(08:55):
root for somebody if you don't know that well enough, Like, yeah,
so it's it was hard to root for him because
you're like, well, I don't really know you and I
don't know much about you from the last season. Um,
so it's hard to root for them to find somebody
when you don't know them very well. Um. But I
think every season is a learning lesson for ABC because
(09:16):
they're always gonna like, you know, every season is going
to have something. But I also want to know are
we holding these people to such high standards? Like why
do we expect Clayton to navigate this perfectly and not
make mistakes and not fall for all these incredible women?
Like why are we having these crazy expectations of him? Um,
(09:38):
just because he is the Bachelor. That's true. It's like
people want the lead to just know to follow the formula,
the standard formula, because then they get so annoyed when
they don't, because just look at it like Ari Peter,
that all of them. It's just like people get so
angry when you don't go by the book. But then
(10:01):
then if you went by the book, if you yeah, yeah,
It's it's so interesting, Like it's the world that we
live in is such a like damned if you do,
damned if you don't. World. And like I was even
thinking about when I was reading tweets last night from
being on TV for like what thirty seconds? Um, people
were like, you, what did you do to her face?
(10:22):
And that's like a very common thing I get. But
I'm like, man, if I didn't do anything in my face,
people will be like, oh, I fe looks so old
you've had work done or you're old when you look old.
Oh my god, that's so funny. I mean same here
on the podcast. It's just like, oh, you asked the
hard questions and then people are like, oh if they
were so mean, you don't ask the questions. It's like, oh,
(10:44):
they're terrible interview. They didn't ask, we wanted to know. Yeah,
I've heard. I read one review on my podcast that
I'm too nice to everybody, and I was like, what
now I'm too nice? No, I think you are too nice.
And compare is into like our interviews last week with
yours with Clayton and ours with Clayton, everybody preferred ears. Well,
(11:06):
I mean, I think it's just different perspectives because obviously
I've been in his shoes, and but then I love
you twice. That's so fair. I didn't even think about that.
You guys are like perfect compliments. Yeah, it's so yeah,
I don't know. It's just such a tough world with
(11:27):
um everybody's got an opinion, and like I feel bad
for Clayton just because I do think he handled that
one situation very poorly, and like people take it so
seriously that they're like like they're acting like he like
ran over somebody's puppy. Like they're like, he he he
made mistakes, he didn't like kill somebody, and they're like
(11:48):
he deserves to die, like dramatic. Okay, So that's interesting
that you say that, because last week I have to
admit I was pretty fired up. I really didn't like
the way that he spoke to her. This episode, I
had way more empathy for him. I was feeling kind
of bad because he just seemed so lost, like he
(12:09):
seemed dumb to the process. Do you know what I mean?
And what I mean like like you just said, you
don't have to be perfect of the process, but like wow,
just all over the place, And there's definitely an ego
thing at play. There was an ego thing I played
last week, and there's definitely one here where it's kind
of like it's all about me and my feelings, you know,
(12:32):
and he and he's kind of dragging them on for
the ride. And I think his answer to that, and
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but
like last week, he was big on the whole like compartmentalizing,
where he was like, these are like different relationships for me,
and I was just you know, exploring each of them individually.
I think it's you know, it could be could be
(12:54):
that well that you can do that to a fault,
and I you know, you can literally compartmentalized too well
and hurt people and hurt yourself because you're like, well,
I'm in this moment and I'm going to forget everybody
else right now because I'm gonna, you know, give my
full attention to this person. That's what they deserve. But
when you do that, you're literally hurting so many other people.
(13:17):
I think that was like such a big part of
my relationship with Sean was that that foundation that you
start on is so rocky that you're like, how could
you be telling the other people these things and feeling
these other things when like, I'm your person and it's
so hard for anybody to understand. But when you compartmentalize
(13:38):
too well, it gets you in a lot of trouble
and muddy waters. And that's exactly what Clayton has done.
That leads me into a conversation that I'm really excited
to have with you, and we're going to do that
right after this break. Okay, so we leave, We begin
(14:02):
this episode at the Rose ceremony, and he admits the
teaser that we've seen tease the entire season. We finally
get it. I'm in love with all three of you,
and I slept with both of you, I was intimate
with if he Okay, so, step one, how do you
feel about him doing that in public in front of
(14:24):
both of them? Yeah, that should have been a conversation
that was you know, I think he owed it to
those two women to like take them aside and not
do it at a rose ceremony and be like, hey,
ps while you're both standing here. One favorite part of
the episode is Rachel asking um, Gabby if she was okay?
(14:45):
Like she seemed truly concerned. It was sweet. Oh my god,
it was such a sweet moment because it felt so genuine.
But him, he shouldn't have had that conversation with both
of them, I say, privately, but it's on natural television,
but like not in front of the other person. Now,
in your opinion, having gone through something similar ish, do
(15:09):
you think that he should have even done it in general?
Do you think that he needed to say to tell
them in those moments one the I love you part
and to the sleeping with people a part, because like
eventually they're going to find out. So do you tell
him there during the process or you need to tell
him in the aftermath. And I feel like you like, like,
(15:30):
oh God, like this this affected my life so much.
It's it's so wrong on so many levels to be
intimate with more than one person at the same time
while you're trying to find love. But in the Bachelor world,
it's like I don't know what I want to I
want to say accepted, but it's encouraged or you're like
it's it's just not the real world. It's not in
(15:53):
the real world you would you would stop a relationship
with other people once you were like, oh, I'm in
love with this person. But in this the bad the
world you as as the lead. Part of the process
and part of the um format of the show is
to continue these relationships. So for him to do that,
(16:13):
I don't think it's wrong UM and and I think
the boundaries should all be set before the fantasy suites though.
You should have these conversations with these women, whether they
air it or not, of those boundaries, like are you
going to leave if I am intimate with more than
one person? Like I don't know who goes into I'm
such a different person though, because like I remember being
(16:33):
on Crystal Seas and I was like, I hope he
sleeps with all three and like wants me at the
end of it, Like I wanted that moving moving forward.
I don't know if I would have like still felt
comfortable with that, but at the time so I just
think boundaries need to be set between these for these
relationships before the fantasy suites. UM. I don't know if
it's their business to like know if he did or not. UM.
(16:57):
I just think each situation is so unique, like maybe
some people would want to know, Maybe some people wouldn't
want to know, Like maybe those two women were like,
why did you tell me that? I wouldn't want to know,
Like one of those things where it's like, um, honestly,
I do out of mind. No, what is it Like?
It's what you don't know can't hurt you, And some
people might be like that. So I don't know. It's
just such a tricky situation. I hate how empathetic I am.
(17:20):
I wish I had such a straight answer. I was like, no,
don't do that. No, No, I think I think that's
a totally fair answer. I think what rattled these women
the most, what they kept saying over and over was
he loves us both, he loves us all. I think
they expected I thought they I think they probably thought
(17:41):
there was a really good chance that he'd be sleeping
with all of them, but they didn't expect for him
to be saying I love you to all of them,
But so did he do yes, I don't know. I
think like that I love you is I sometimes like
I think that's more deep than being intimate. I think,
(18:02):
oh yeah, yeah, And so I think he should have Um,
I think he was so easily produced and convinced that
this is how he should do it and this is
what he should do, and that he was just trying
to like make television while also following his heart. And
(18:22):
so I I like the whole thing. I'm like, oh
my gosh, how does he not, like, you know, how
does he bring these two women to meet his family
after he's like, oh, but my heart is still with Susie, Like,
I don't know. But at the same time, it's like
that's he's probably being told this is the format of
the show. You have to at least do this for
(18:42):
them and to see if they want you know. So
I'm just like, God, making television is so hard. Well,
when it's like you're not a character, You're not a character,
you're a real human being going through these emotions and
trying to find love and trying to make television, like,
it's so messy. The other thing about not getting far
on Michelle season is that he is an experience that
(19:03):
it comes to the production element. He probably just had
like no backbone with it, Like he just thought that
you go along with anything that's suggested, because as we
said on this show many times, there's always free will.
You always can make your own decisions, but like you know,
you're encouraged or suggested one way or the other. And
(19:24):
he just went with every suggestion and every suggestion. Is
standing up there at the little iced podium at the
Rose ceremony like and saying I slept with both of
you and I love all of you, like that was
the most produced decision. Yes, he would never and he
has so broken down at this point, like he is
(19:47):
a shell of himself. You can just see it, like
he doesn't know what to do. As he says, I'm
so broken. Yes he is. He's so broken and so
he like and he doesn't on d sand production and
he doesn't you know, you're right, he just doesn't have
the experience. I said to the producers at one point
(20:08):
at the end of my season, just tell me what
you want me to do. I'm so broken, I'm so tired,
I'm so done. I just want to go home. Like
what do you need me to do I'll do it,
So he's probably you know, I just feel so bad because,
like you could tell on these podcast interviews and he's
not okay right now, He's just not okay. Well you
(20:31):
know you you've been really open about your mental health struggles,
and so that probably brings a whole other component of
empathy when you're watching him. I don't want to make
excuses for him, like, um, because I agree like some
of his behavior I do not agree with, so I
don't want to make excuses. But at the same time,
I'm like, he is not okay, So I want to
(20:51):
give him like empathy and compassion for not being okay.
Right I know, because when he showed up to do
our interview lastly, he was in the dumps and I
felt bad. Yeah, okay, uh, let's talk about Gabby. Because
Gabby like had some good hero moments. She was not
(21:13):
going to give into like her feelings of love because
of his behavior. And I think we all, I feel
like we all wanted her to just walk away, right
every I think everyone was gonna be like like rooting
(21:34):
for Gabby and she walked away, and then like we're
all rooted for you, and yeah, and then she came back.
I was surprised that she came back. Uh. We were
at we were doing in a watch party at the
coffee shop and bar Roder's yesterday and everybody started clapping
when she said, I will not accept your rose, and
I was like, wait, is this the first time somebody
(21:55):
hasn't accepted Oh, I can't think, I can't think. I
can't think of one. Um. Yeah, that was like she's
she she handled tough situations like a chap. Like I'm
so jealous of how like articulate she was, and she
was able to explain her feelings so well. Uh me too.
(22:19):
I was like I sometimes I well, I think I'm
getting better that every year and with every therapy session
I have, but I still wouldn't have handled that the
way she did. And I was like, I don't know her,
and I'm so proud of her. Yeah, I agree, I agree.
And then the other side, Rachel just seems so hopelessly devoted. Okay,
(22:40):
she's so in love with him that I'm just like,
can you please marry this girl? She's just gonna love
you forever? And she just she just yeah with without
like it's unconditional seeming. Yeah, she really likes since the
get go. I think she really believe that this was
(23:00):
her person, and then he felt the same way. And
so now this is all just like coming crashing down
in like one episode of her being like, I'm not
his love, like I'm not, and she's trying to process
it in real time, and she also is handling it
so well, but like maybe more of the way I
would handle it. But she's just the poor thing, did
(23:22):
not see any of this coming, and she's just like, Wow,
this is my person, and now I don't know if
I'm his. I definitely related to Rachel Moore in this moment.
While I respected and like wanted to be Gabby, I
knew that I was right. I was like that moment,
you know, it's like, oh God, I hate him, but
(23:45):
I love him so much that I will forgive anything
he does just to be with him. Let's talk about
the girls meeting the families after this break, all right.
(24:07):
I think we can all agree that the Clayton's dad
is awesome and we wish that we could see more
of him, and that we wish that Clayton was had
like the brain of his dad, like his his like
matured brain, his dad is so logical and Clayton is
so emotional. I'm like that Clayton's dad is like he
(24:29):
was just like, yeah, of course they're upset. Yeah. No,
Like it's so like obvious to like a you know,
especially like a father figure. That's what I mean. It
was like the ultimate like twenty something versus dad. Like
his dad is the ultimate dad, Like my dad would
have talked to me the exact same way. But he
also had a warmth about him. While he was like
(24:50):
being real he was, he was just like he felt
warm and like I was like, this man, we needed
more of him. Yeah yeah. Instead, I actually ran into
him in the elevator UM after UM filming the last night,
I was like Clayton's dad and then I was like you,
well his mom was there too, and I said, I
(25:12):
know this is probably so hard on you know, the
family doesn't sign up for this, and it's so hard
on you guys. And I said, but you, but everybody
loves you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, so Gabby comes first.
I don't think there's anything like super monumental about either
of these meetings. Is there anything that stood out to you?
(25:35):
It just seemed like they like the families like both girls.
But it wasn't like a lot of other family meeting
times that we've seen where the family was super into
one person or like had a strong opinion. They're just
like I felt like it was very interesting the fact
that they just like blossed over that he almost ruined
(25:55):
both of their lives and now they're meeting their families,
Like it was just like they just showed up and
there like, hey, like remember the other night that was crazy? Huh?
And they like kissed and like when I met their
families and it was like nice and pleasant, and I
was like, what is happening? Yeah? And the did they
even ask did they the Susie thing? How much should
(26:19):
they talk about Susie upfront? Now I'm like just not
remembering did you make a big deal out of Suzie?
Like he was like in Susie's gone, um, And now
I'm moving on to these two. I guess like what
would have been interesting to see is the family question, like,
all right, well are either of these girls like a
(26:40):
consolation prize? They yeah, they did, they did say that. Okay,
they did say that, yeah yeah, And he was like no.
But then he like to me, what would have really
hurt was watching this episode back and feeling like he
was like, I love you too, Gabby, I love you too, Rachel.
I'm in love with these But then Susie a once
(27:01):
in a lifetime woman. I'm like, well, that's exactly when
he started saying all this at the end of both
family meetings, it was just like, okay, well, now like
he he has to dump these other two girls, like
he has to because it just yes, like you cannot
do this. That would be like it would be very
Peter Weber esque, like I know that. Peter was definitely
(27:23):
not as obvious. He didn't say such strong language, but
like all of us viewers were like, Okay, Maddie is
definitely the front runner. And when Maddie left, it was like, oh, really, Hannah,
and you gotta break up with her. And then he
ended up proposing, and we're like, what in the world
He literally told the other girl she was number one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Um.
(27:45):
We missed a huge chunk of conversation from the previous
section of the episode, the I Love You Most, when
Gabby was like, I don't want to be like loved
the most or like I need to be like the
only one that is loved and accepted. What do you
think about that term? It's interesting because when you put
(28:06):
like love the most, it just sounds wrong, Like there's
something about it just sounds wrong. It's it's like calling
whoever he picks the winner. It's like the winner. Right.
It's now like if you were to replace the word
love with like the one that I like the most,
the one on the most compatible with it sounds so
much different, so much different. Yeah, yeah, I was just
(28:29):
on Gabby side for that one because the same. But
I also can articulate why it's so wrong. But it
is either I totally agree with you. I'm like, he
could have put it so differently. I guess it's like choosing.
It's like a child. It's like you don't like tell
a kid like I love you you just like if
(28:50):
I don't. I don't even know. See, I'm trying to
come up with the comparison and it's just not working.
So I'm just gonna leave it as it just doesn't.
It's just not right. It's just not right. It's just
not right. I mean, but what it's such a gray
area in the bachelor world of books, right and wrong. Well,
it's like in the Bachelor world, we say falling in
love versus being in love, and like, how many times
does that actually happen in the real world? Like how
(29:12):
many times is there like a phase where you're like, oh,
what's like date? I really like you, and then it
becomes there's no, there's no real life couple. That's where
the guys like, I'm falling in love with you, and
then a month later he goes, Okay, I've decided now
I am in love with you. That's why I think
that's why the viewers are so hard on the leads
and the bachelor of The Bachelor and all these people,
(29:33):
because they expect it to be like their dating world
and they're watching it because it's so relatable, but but
it's so like not right at the same time, and
they it's like it's such a confusing thing to watch
without getting angry. Well, I think that's why Clayton was
so upset last week at the backlash. He was like,
I was dating as the bachelor in a bachelor world,
(29:56):
with which I thought was totally different in the real world.
But maybe it isn't as different in the real world
because everybody has these problems. But I was told in
the Bachelor World it's okay to do this because they're
giving me three overnight date keys whatever. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
I don't know. I really wish all the Bachelor and
bachelorttes would come forward and be like, Okay, it's love
(30:18):
with this many people in the fantasy suite. And I said,
I love you, but off camera to this, but like
he's so Clayton is so exposed right now. Yeah. He
also like he just doesn't have like a connection like
relationships necessarily with like past, where like I feel like
a lot of Bachelor's they just kind of like they
(30:40):
emerge with the support system from the franchise. And Ben
talked to me about this. He was like, yo, dude,
I wanted to help guide you by like, but you
didn't take it, and this is what happened got And
I think that's why it was so cool to have
myself and taste to there for bachelorettes, because I feel
like we really were able to mentor like these women
(31:05):
and not just be a host role. We were really
able to help in these situations, which I think we
clearly needs. Well. I mean, you could argue that Jesse
was supposed to be that but I do think that
Jesse took on a traditional host role, not a mentor role,
and you guys even had that label of mentor or guide,
(31:25):
and I think we should men. They didn't want to
pay us because they didn't want to pay us for
a host role. But did they do that with Michelle season?
Did you pay you host role? Oh? I thought you
guys got to change title the second season. No, we
were still special guests in in the credits. Oh goodness. Okay, Well,
(31:48):
I have to say that I think that Chris Harrison
was very miss last night, especially, you know. Yeah, I agree.
It's love Jesse. He's great. He's so nice, it's so
fun to talk to, and I think he's done a
great job in host ral. I do think that last
night he was like, dude, I don't know what the
(32:08):
did I tell you? Yeah? I agree, I think um,
First of all, Jesse was Canadian and I love him,
and he's literally one of the nicest. Seriously, every time
he's on here, it's just so fun. I like smile
the entire time we're talking. Yeah, he's so great. It's
just Chris Harriston was able to navigate any situation with
(32:33):
like advice and um, I don't I don't know. I
don't even know. I just think it. Like Jesse was
more like umm, almost like like how insane it was. Yeah,
He's like, hey, I'm a viewer along for this crazy
(32:55):
ride of yours. I cannot tell you what to do
because you're far too far in dude. Okay, So then
let's just get to the conversation that he has with
his family about Susie. Like you already kind of brushed
on it. But he has this realization after both of
these dates family dates, that Susie's the one, and he
(33:22):
he just wants to go and pursue that, even if
it kind of screws up everything else. And I respect this,
Like I'm really into this because, like he says, he
wants to do this, and he wants to risk losing
the other girls because he can't possibly think of a
future in which he's constantly questioning what if what if
(33:44):
I went after Susie? And that's great that I love
that decision. What I don't like well that these women
probably had to go through all of it. Oh that's
where thank you. That's that's the supporting him and being
there for him during these realizations but like it's to
me like, that's gosh, it's so hard because the fantasy
(34:08):
sweets are there for my person. From my personal experience,
the fantasy sweets was to literally like sex is an
important thing to me in a relationship and into the
see and how you know how you feel with that
person in those moments, and and to me, it's like,
you take all these relationships as far as you possibly
(34:29):
can to feel so confident in your decision at the end,
and that is a terrible like I always say, this
is a terrible foundation to start a relationship on, but
that is what the show is and things are there
to do. Meeting the families is part of that. You
take it that far and you introduce to your families
to feel that and be like, wait, I've realized in
(34:53):
this moment that Susie is the person that I want
to be with because I'm still thinking about her and
want to be here with my family. Thank you for
leading my thought in that direction because that's exactly where
I wanted to go when because I knew when Okay,
so Ben and Nick both saw the episode before me,
(35:13):
and they both previewed well, at least Ben did to
me that like he was not going like Clayton was
gonna look even worse. And when I was watching him
make this decision that he was going to go after
Susie after the families, I was like, is this the moment?
Is this what people are going to be annoyed at?
I'm like I can see that because you know, like, yeah,
(35:37):
he strung him along, he begged them to say and
then just decided he didn't want me with either one
of them, right, right? Is I think that it was
There's no other way of doing it like that would
have helped me. I think. I think what people need
to think about if they are judging him for that,
is like, yeah, it's going to hurt these girls even
(35:59):
worse because they were dragged on for a couple other
days and they met the family. But put yourself in
that position, like you really might need that one extra day,
You might need to see that girl with your family
to really know. And that's how we found out. And
that's in my opinion, Okay, yeah, it just sets because
(36:21):
we love these two women so much and they've been
through so much at this point that you're like, please
don't put them through anything else. But at the end
of the day. This is part of the show. This
is part of the format. You do need to see
them with your family. You do need to have those
overnight moments. You do need to have these like take
it as far as you can go times to really
(36:41):
have clarity on what actually you want. Yeah, and guys,
just think about it. That is like a normal season.
Like these people look at the runner up. They get
taken all the way to the altar, really in the altar,
and they get broken up with But you don't get
mad about it because that's the way it goes. That's
the show. Yeah, that's exactly right, and it's it just
(37:04):
sucks because I think we're rooting so hard for these
women at the at this point that that's why everyone's
so mad. But really, this is this is normal for
the show. But probably another thing, going back to Blake's comment,
if if we knew him better going into this and
we were really connected to him as a character, we'd
be rooting for his happiness. But we know these girls
(37:25):
basically just as well as we know him, so we
end up rooting for them even more, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
just it's so true. Okay, we leave this episode off
with Clinton saying that he's going off to get Susie,
and well, we know what happens because we've we've seen
(37:46):
the screenen nurse, But you guys will find out tonight.
And that's all I can say about that. Yeah, yeah,
it's I mean, it's again another fascinating episode, and I
can't wait to watch the after the final rose because
like I'm also be like, I'm watching this as a viewer,
and I just can't wait to see how he because
(38:07):
he's probably learned so much from this and grown in
the last few months more than he has in his
whole life, and I'm very curious to see how he
handles this situation. Yeah, same, same, Yeah, all right, Well
that's enough of the episode. After this break, we are
going to go into Bachelor headlines, and I'm only going
to do ones that pertain to you, Caitlin. I mean,
(38:31):
look at you, seven years removed from the show, and
most of the headlines pertain to you in one way
or another. You're that much of a rock star. Okay,
see you guys in a second. Okay, Okay, Caitlin, I'm
(38:53):
gonna read the headline. Is he Normally Ben would read
the headline and then I would describe, you know, the
story today. I'm going to read the headline and then
you are going to tell me what it's all about,
because it's about your fiance in this case. Okay, ready,
Jason Tarctic says that Clayton did not handle himself appropriately
(39:17):
with Susie, but everyone makes mistakes. So what's Jason's take
on all of this? Been? Oh my gosh, he's so
funny because I think he forgets he was also on
the show and how hard it was, and like he
watches it now as a you. I'm like, can you
have a little like more compassion for the situation? And um,
(39:38):
so he he was really, I mean he felt the
same way as I did. He's like, you're not gonna
He's like, you're not gonna like the way he talks
to Susie. And I was like, oh, that's so fair. Um,
but he's already been dragged on the internet. So let's like,
let's of course stand up for Susie, and you know,
let's say that that's not right of him just week
(40:00):
that way, but let's not you know, feed into the
hate online for him anymore than an ardience. Do you
think that both of our guys have a certain perspective
on the show that's a little bit different than us
because we were you know, we weren't always perfect and
the two of them, Jason and Jared always perfect. Perfect. Yes,
(40:21):
I say that to Jason all the time. I'm like,
you literally could not have had an easier time on
this show. And like the way that they you know,
of course it's not an edit. They portray you the
way you are, but like they really just highlighted their
perfection or just yes, totally second headline is juicy and
(40:47):
I can't wait to get your your description of it.
Jason Tartik says that he and Caitlin want kids the
second they get married. Are you gonna have a honeymoon
baby proba? Way? I hope? So, I mean I can
only like, um, like, I can only pray that when
I can get pregnant and that it can happen that
(41:09):
easily for us, because I know so many women struggle,
and so I hope that is the case. Um. Last night,
I'm not gonna lie. We were like should we just
should we just do this now? Like what really is
our wedding going to happen? What? Should we just have
a baby? Now was like in November and you said, oh, yeah,
(41:30):
definitely two. I don't know if it's going to be
two unless you do a lope or something. Yeah, I uh,
did we tell you? Um? Actually wait, I'm gonna I'm
gonna tell you that off Okay, Okay, Yeah, yeah, I
figure I think I might know where that's going. Go ahead, okay, Um,
I really want two venues. There's two venues in Nashville
(41:53):
that I'm like so set on, and so really it
will depend on when they're available for when we get married. Okay, alright,
very respectable decision. I am so glad that he chose
the venues that we did, and I would have waited
for them. Jason also talks about the way that he's
going to feel when he sees you in the wedding
(42:15):
dress for the first time. He says, what did he say? Okay? Okay,
so the quote goes like this, uh well, this is
from the Life and Starter style article. Jason explains that
the one thing they won't do is have first look photos.
No offense to Ben and Jess who did first look photos.
(42:36):
I not a fan, don't like them, not traditional enough
for me. I like the groom seeing the bride for
the first time that day in the dress as the
doors open and you see his reaction and he says, um,
he he wants the experience of, you know, seeing you
(42:57):
walk down the aisle, seeing the dress for the first time.
And if it's an inconvenience of a few hours of photos,
you know, in between the ceremony and the reception, We're
just going to have to deal with that because that's
something that no one can take from you. The second
that we close that wedding chapter, then it's time to
have kids. So I I like that your your decision,
your decision on that. I guess that's a joint decision,
(43:19):
right about having photos in between, I have I have
always dreamt of my dad walking me down the file
and my person see me for the first time, like
and getting emotional, because that's one of my favorite parts
to watch. Yeah, and like Seven Dresses moment you know
you have to get the groom at the end of
the aisle. Oh, it's so romantic and I just like
(43:40):
love that And I totally understand why people do first
look and photos like that and stuff, but I, yeah,
we don't want to do that. Tip from the wedding
pro over here, just the one who has gone through it.
Definitely assume that photos are going to take longer than
you schedule for them. Did you know that our wedding
(44:00):
we had to in the moment by the next year
hour at the reception venue because photos took long and
we wanted it to last, Yeah, longer. We were all
like our delayed. Oh interesting, Oh my gosh, I had
the best time at your wedding. I like loved every
second of that. That was so everything was perfect, Like
that's um, that's something that like we talked about as
(44:24):
like what we want our wedding to be like it
would be like yours. Well, thank you. That is the
nicest compliment and we can't hear it enough. Yeah, all right,
So now we have another headline. It's not exactly pertained
to people. I want to know if you got to
talk to him yesterday about this. So Rodney Matthews hopes
(44:45):
to find love on a Bachelor spinoff. Oh so he's
actually referring to Bachelor Live on stage because they're doing
you know, alumni, They're they're finding love like on the stage.
This is like the new way of there are finding
random guys in each city Um, the way that it
was pre COVID, but now they're taking Bachelor alumni and
(45:06):
trying to find love in like a town near them.
But I thought he was going to talk about paradise.
This is this is I don't, I don't, I don't want,
I don't care about who he finds on the stage
on Bachelor. UM live, I'm sorry, but you're not going
to find love. I mean, we don't want you to
find love there because you need to be on Paradise. So, like,
(45:28):
do you think he's gonna be on Paradise? Did you
talk to him about all about that? Um? We honestly,
we were too busy trying to nail a TikTok to
talk about anything else. So no, I didn't, But I
really want him to be on Paradise. Okay, he's very sweet.
Any other behind the scenes scoop that you got from
yesterday because you were there with Michelle Nick Claire Rodney,
(45:50):
is that it? Yeah? Um? Yeah, I'm trying to think
of any scoops that I got. But truly, they kind
of kept us separated because of OVID. Um oh I
heard that. That's still like they were still pretty strict
about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all had to get
like tested three days before, two days before the day
(46:10):
of and like masks, and but then you go in
the room and everybody's there with that. It doesn't make
any sense. But um, what was like? Oh you know
who I met Nick's girlfriend? Who was so she's amazing. Yeah,
she's amazing. We love them together. Isn't he just the
happiest you've ever seen him? Yes? And just so they're
(46:31):
just so great together and supportive and sweet and happy
and it's amazing. I know. It's like, Okay, Nick, let's
just let's just get a ring on it. Yeah, lock
it up. Yeah, did you get anything from Claire? Because
Nick posted something about Claire being single, and the last
time we had a headline about Claire, um, it was
about her maybe hanging out with another guy from our season.
(46:53):
Oh yeah, Okay, from what I gathered, I definitely think
she's single. I don't want to speak for her, but
that's what I gathered and like ready to mingle. So
all right. Not to wrap this up on a sad note,
but I have to. Um. The other bachelor headline we
have is that that clint our our List's death was
(47:16):
revealed as a suicide this week, and um, you know,
he died on January eleven, and it's just so sad,
you know, it's just like there's I don't have any
words for it. I mean, Caitlin obviously, you know, had
him on our season and I met him a couple
of times, and it's just so incredibly sad. It's I
(47:38):
reached out to his sister just to be like, I've
never met her, I don't know that, but I just
wanted to be like, I am so sorry, Like I
cannot imagine going through that, like with a family member. Um,
depression is so real. I wish that, you know. I
wish everybody had the proper resources and and things if
(48:00):
they're going through something to get help like they do,
but like I wish people really used those resources to
help them because I understand depression and mental health problems
and it's just so tragic and I just I have
no words because I'm like, I just can't believe it.
I can't believe it when I when I saw the news,
when I heard about it, when I read about I
(48:22):
was just sick to my stomach because even though obviously
things didn't end great between us, I truly heard really
great things about him from everybody else, like the way
his friends spoke about him, his family, his people in
the wrestling world, the way for him, Like they all
spoke super highly up him. And so I'm it's absolutely tragic. Yeah,
(48:49):
I wish that there was something than that to say.
But exactly what you said, you know, just like seek help.
Don't be afraid to talk about what you're going through, you, Yes,
and like there's hotlines you can call and like when
you're in that moment, Like I just I don't know.
It's so I can't ever like put myself in that
(49:10):
position to like know what that dark of the time
would feel like. But it must be so scary to
reach out for help. But like those those resources are
there for a reason because there are people out there
who can help you. Yes, all right, Well until tomorrow, guys,
then we were going to be here breaking down the
(49:31):
finale with Serene. Have you met Serena yet? Um? Yeah
I did. She was on the date that I hosted
on Clayton season and she is lovely. Okay, Well, can't wait.
I'm sure she's going to have a whole bunch of
insider knowledge on all of these girls. Feelings because I'm
sure she's good friends with the top three being that
she was, you know, top four. All right, Caitlin, you
(49:55):
are the best man, Mike crutch word really is all
right when Ben's not here, alright, alright, alright, have one,
I have one. Two. I always have like if I
can't even listen back to my own podcast because I'm like, oh,
shut up, Caitlin, stop saying the same every time. What's
your word? What do you keep saying? Trying to I'm
trying to think, I feel like I always say, Um,
(50:18):
I don't know. I'm gonna have to get back to
you on that one, because there's I'll be in the moment,
like I'm gonna podcast later with Katie Thurston actually and
I'll figure out what my work is still happen. Okay.
That makes me think about just just all the people
complaining about Clayton and Susie saying like like like and
(50:40):
you know that they say like more in the context
of the show because they're trying to think about the
most careful word. That's the most careful wording, and they're
describing emotions is already awkward. So when you put the
two together, you don't want to get in trouble on TV.
You don't want somebody to hate you. You're trying trying
to describe your feelings. You just say like a lot
(51:02):
and you're nervous, just like that's just what you do.
It's fine. Don't make fun of him for it. I
love you, Caitlin, thanks for being here. I've been Ashley,
and you've been. You've been okay. Thanks bye. Follow the
Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on iHeart Radio,
or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with IR Radio. Hello, everyone, welcome to the Almost Famous podcast.
Big episode today. I mean that's a Ben says every week,
but like, seriously, this is the finale, and this finale
is insane and we have the best guests I could
possibly imagine breaking it down with. Today. It is Caitlin Bristow. Hello, Caitlin,
(00:25):
Thank you so much for taking Thank you so much
for taking the time out of your insane schedule. You guys,
just a little preview as to um what Caitlin's past
twenty four hours have been. She was on the live
show and now she's on a bus to San Diego
to do Dancing with the Stars Live show today, and
(00:47):
she did so many interviews and I'm probably probably a
podcast of your own in between then, and somehow she
was able to squeeze in an hour for us. Well,
I'm so sorry that I'm like literally on a bus
bouncing around back here, Like I hope the audio sounds
good for all of your listeners, because I am I
hots it is. It sounds good. It's funny because we
(01:07):
get bios for everybody. Stept that I don't really need
a bio for you. And it's just like these are
the things that Caitlin has going on her life as
a constant. In addition to you know, being the Bachelorette
House for the past few seasons, she has her podcast
Off the Vine or Scrunching Hair accessory company, Do Edit,
her wine label, Spin Sparrows, and the Dancing with the
Stars Live toor so like, yeah, it's this girl just
(01:30):
does it all. And you are an amazing business woman
and I'm so proud of you. Okay, thank you. You're
the most perfect person to have here today. Like I said,
because you said last week in your interview with Clayton
that there are some ways that you can relate to him.
So can we like just hit it off the bat? Um?
(01:51):
You had a little controversion in your season because um,
yeah there was like some outing you sleeping with you
know people, And how do you feel how do you
feel like this season has like it's do you think
it's just always gonna be sloppy? Is it always slobby?
(02:13):
If you sleep with somebody who isn't you're gonna be
your final pick? I keep saying, I'm like like, Okay,
I get that there are people that come on the
show that are virgins who are the leads, and of
course they aren't sleeping with people in the fantasy suite,
but there I would like to know how many bachelor
and bachelorettes go to the fantasy fantasy suite and sleep
with more than one person. It's literally part of the process,
(02:35):
in my opinion, to do that. I don't think it's
right or wrong. I think it depends on each individual
of like what they need from the like to to
figure out what they need in that relationship to move
forward for forever um. So I just think, like I
thought the show and I thought the viewers had come
such a long way because I obviously slept with more
(02:57):
than one person on my season and got so much
BackFlash and shaming and all of that that came with it.
But then kind of Brown sleeps with you know, more
than one person and four times in a windmill, and
everyone was cheering for her, and I was like, yes,
sex positive, here we go, like we're finally coming around,
and like everyone was like he locks fun and I
(03:21):
was like yes, and I like loved that people were
accepting of it. And now Payton does it and because
again it's like I don't know. I don't know why,
but everyone's like shaving him for it, and he I
just think he's like in over his head with falling
in love with people. Like I think he's just he's
just in over his head. That's the best way I
can explain it, Okay, except for my issue, and Ben
(03:45):
and I have made it super clear over the past
few weeks. Was not him sleeping with everyone or two
of them. It was the way he spoke to Susie. Yes,
one thousand percent, And I just don't know if I
could get over that. Um, I totally agree with you.
I and he knows that, like he said to me
(04:08):
watching it back, he was like, I totally handled that poorly,
like he said, he didn't guess light. I'm I agree.
And then some people have told me, like that term
is so overused now that you're using it like me,
like I use it in an interview in the two
general sense, but like if you really look at the
(04:29):
psychological definition of it, maybe he wasn't. And I'm like, okay, sorry.
What I mean then is that it was like manipulative.
It was manipulative. It really was, And and I think
he knows that watching it back, But I always have
to give people the benefit of the doubt. Not that
I think anyone should be excused for talking to anyone
like that, but I will say that when you are
(04:51):
at the end of that journey in that place, especially Clayton,
he is so emotional, He is an absolute train wreck.
He is just like at this point, I feel like
he doesn't even know who he is, where he is,
what he feels. And so I think he was just
like so emotionally drained, and I think and I think
(05:11):
he told me this on my podcast, that he had
this feeling that Susie wanted to be the bachelorette, so
he was told us the same thing, And like, I
can understand. I can understand watching it back with that mentality,
you're literally just questioning everyone and every intention and you're
like do I even know these people? And like who
are you? And like I don't have my family, I
(05:32):
don't have my friends. Like you're just such a mess
at that point that like you probably aren't acting the
way you usually would in real life. Yeah, yeah, I understand.
But at the same time, it was a rough that.
You know, we we left off last week rough and
now we enter this week with another questionable decision. I
(05:55):
suppose well when he asked, you know, and he kind
of like begs boat girl to stay um at the
road ceremony. But first I want to ask you two questions. First,
do you think that he really is in love with
these girls, all three of them? Or is he in
lust with all three of them? Um? Probably lust? I
(06:17):
mean I I just always you know, I've been in
that position, and it's like, how if you love someone
like you know all of their flaws and you love
them for their flaws and their insecurities and their mistakes
and their good times and they're bad times and their
ups and downs, and you don't know someone well enough
to be fully in love with them on that show, um,
(06:40):
but you can definitely fall in love and be in lust. Um.
So I think it's probably lust for all three of them.
Because I don't want to speak for him, but I
don't think he has much life experience, like with like
relationships and seeing the world and going through like you know,
what a lot of people have before they find the
(07:01):
love of their life. So I think he really has
three great women that I like. Don't fault him for
falling for all of them because they seem incredible. Um,
and I think he's just like, what have I Like,
what have I gotten myself into? Because I really I
think he's falling in love with all three of them,
but it's probably lost. Yeah, Okay, that completely leads me
(07:22):
into my next question. He's the second Bachelor we've had
in a row who has had basically no experience with
the franchise. Did not you know, Matt James nubi completely
and then Clayton. I mean what was he there for
two weeks on Michelle season? Like filming wise, probably about
two weeks, so practically no experience, doesn't know how it.
(07:47):
I saw Blake talking on Twitter and Instagram about how
he was like, he has no he doesn't have like
the empathy for these women that a normal quote normal
lead who made it top three would have. Who knows
how difficult being in the top three is. So is
this just like a big learning lesson for ABC that
(08:11):
they need to be casting for like a quote successful season,
be casting some somebody who has experienced or is it
or is this great TV? And and we are and
then like the production and all that doesn't care whether
it leads in happily ever after. Well, I mean it's
in I don't know if great TV would also show
(08:35):
in the numbers the numbers and the rains are down.
So yeah, so it's it's fascinating to think of it
from that point of view, where, um, you know, is
it great TV because the ratings are down or is
that just because everyone is like watching Netflix now or like,
I don't know, but I have thought that this season
wasn't like it was. I always say it's hard to
(08:55):
root for somebody if you don't know that well enough, Like, yeah,
so it's it was hard to root for him because
you're like, well, I don't really know you and I
don't know much about you from the last season. Um,
so it's hard to root for them to find somebody
when you don't know them very well. Um. But I
think every season is a learning lesson for ABC because
(09:16):
they're always gonna like, you know, every season is going
to have something. But I also want to know are
we holding these people to such high standards? Like why
do we expect Clayton to navigate this perfectly and not
make mistakes and not fall for all these incredible women?
Like why are we having these crazy expectations of him? Um,
(09:38):
just because he is the Bachelor. That's true. It's like
people want the lead to just know to follow the formula,
the standard formula, because then they get so annoyed when
they don't, because just look at it like Ari Peter,
that all of them. It's just like people get so
angry when you don't go by the book. But then
(10:01):
then if you went by the book, if you yeah, yeah,
It's it's so interesting, Like it's the world that we
live in is such a like damned if you do,
damned if you don't. World. And like I was even
thinking about when I was reading tweets last night from
being on TV for like what thirty seconds? Um, people
were like, you, what did you do to her face?
(10:22):
And that's like a very common thing I get. But
I'm like, man, if I didn't do anything in my face,
people will be like, oh, I fe looks so old
you've had work done or you're old when you look old.
Oh my god, that's so funny. I mean same here
on the podcast. It's just like, oh, you asked the
hard questions and then people are like, oh if they
were so mean, you don't ask the questions. It's like, oh,
(10:44):
they're terrible interview. They didn't ask, we wanted to know. Yeah,
I've heard. I read one review on my podcast that
I'm too nice to everybody, and I was like, what
now I'm too nice? No, I think you are too nice.
And compare is into like our interviews last week with
yours with Clayton and ours with Clayton, everybody preferred ears. Well,
(11:06):
I mean, I think it's just different perspectives because obviously
I've been in his shoes, and but then I love
you twice. That's so fair. I didn't even think about that.
You guys are like perfect compliments. Yeah, it's so yeah,
I don't know. It's just such a tough world with
(11:27):
um everybody's got an opinion, and like I feel bad
for Clayton just because I do think he handled that
one situation very poorly, and like people take it so
seriously that they're like like they're acting like he like
ran over somebody's puppy. Like they're like, he he he
made mistakes, he didn't like kill somebody, and they're like
(11:48):
he deserves to die, like dramatic. Okay, So that's interesting
that you say that, because last week I have to
admit I was pretty fired up. I really didn't like
the way that he spoke to her. This episode, I
had way more empathy for him. I was feeling kind
of bad because he just seemed so lost, like he
(12:09):
seemed dumb to the process. Do you know what I mean?
And what I mean like like you just said, you
don't have to be perfect of the process, but like wow,
just all over the place, And there's definitely an ego
thing at play. There was an ego thing I played
last week, and there's definitely one here where it's kind
of like it's all about me and my feelings, you know,
(12:32):
and he and he's kind of dragging them on for
the ride. And I think his answer to that, and
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but
like last week, he was big on the whole like compartmentalizing,
where he was like, these are like different relationships for me,
and I was just you know, exploring each of them individually.
I think it's you know, it could be could be
(12:54):
that well that you can do that to a fault,
and I you know, you can literally compartmentalized too well
and hurt people and hurt yourself because you're like, well,
I'm in this moment and I'm going to forget everybody
else right now because I'm gonna, you know, give my
full attention to this person. That's what they deserve. But
when you do that, you're literally hurting so many other people.
(13:17):
I think that was like such a big part of
my relationship with Sean was that that foundation that you
start on is so rocky that you're like, how could
you be telling the other people these things and feeling
these other things when like, I'm your person and it's
so hard for anybody to understand. But when you compartmentalize
(13:38):
too well, it gets you in a lot of trouble
and muddy waters. And that's exactly what Clayton has done.
That leads me into a conversation that I'm really excited
to have with you, and we're going to do that
right after this break. Okay, so we leave, We begin
(14:02):
this episode at the Rose ceremony, and he admits the
teaser that we've seen tease the entire season. We finally
get it. I'm in love with all three of you,
and I slept with both of you, I was intimate
with if he Okay, so, step one, how do you
feel about him doing that in public in front of
(14:24):
both of them? Yeah, that should have been a conversation
that was you know, I think he owed it to
those two women to like take them aside and not
do it at a rose ceremony and be like, hey,
ps while you're both standing here. One favorite part of
the episode is Rachel asking um, Gabby if she was okay?
(14:45):
Like she seemed truly concerned. It was sweet. Oh my god,
it was such a sweet moment because it felt so genuine.
But him, he shouldn't have had that conversation with both
of them, I say, privately, but it's on natural television,
but like not in front of the other person. Now,
in your opinion, having gone through something similar ish, do
(15:09):
you think that he should have even done it in general?
Do you think that he needed to say to tell
them in those moments one the I love you part
and to the sleeping with people a part, because like
eventually they're going to find out. So do you tell
him there during the process or you need to tell
him in the aftermath. And I feel like you like, like,
(15:30):
oh God, like this this affected my life so much.
It's it's so wrong on so many levels to be
intimate with more than one person at the same time
while you're trying to find love. But in the Bachelor world,
it's like I don't know what I want to I
want to say accepted, but it's encouraged or you're like
it's it's just not the real world. It's not in
(15:53):
the real world you would you would stop a relationship
with other people once you were like, oh, I'm in
love with this person. But in this the bad the
world you as as the lead. Part of the process
and part of the um format of the show is
to continue these relationships. So for him to do that,
(16:13):
I don't think it's wrong UM and and I think
the boundaries should all be set before the fantasy suites though.
You should have these conversations with these women, whether they
air it or not, of those boundaries, like are you
going to leave if I am intimate with more than
one person? Like I don't know who goes into I'm
such a different person though, because like I remember being
(16:33):
on Crystal Seas and I was like, I hope he
sleeps with all three and like wants me at the
end of it, Like I wanted that moving moving forward.
I don't know if I would have like still felt
comfortable with that, but at the time so I just
think boundaries need to be set between these for these
relationships before the fantasy suites. UM. I don't know if
it's their business to like know if he did or not. UM.
(16:57):
I just think each situation is so unique, like maybe
some people would want to know, Maybe some people wouldn't
want to know, Like maybe those two women were like,
why did you tell me that? I wouldn't want to know,
Like one of those things where it's like, um, honestly,
I do out of mind. No, what is it Like?
It's what you don't know can't hurt you, And some
people might be like that. So I don't know. It's
just such a tricky situation. I hate how empathetic I am.
(17:20):
I wish I had such a straight answer. I was like, no,
don't do that. No, No, I think I think that's
a totally fair answer. I think what rattled these women
the most, what they kept saying over and over was
he loves us both, he loves us all. I think
they expected I thought they I think they probably thought
(17:41):
there was a really good chance that he'd be sleeping
with all of them, but they didn't expect for him
to be saying I love you to all of them,
But so did he do yes, I don't know. I
think like that I love you is I sometimes like
I think that's more deep than being intimate. I think,
(18:02):
oh yeah, yeah, And so I think he should have Um,
I think he was so easily produced and convinced that
this is how he should do it and this is
what he should do, and that he was just trying
to like make television while also following his heart. And
(18:22):
so I I like the whole thing. I'm like, oh
my gosh, how does he not, like, you know, how
does he bring these two women to meet his family
after he's like, oh, but my heart is still with Susie, Like,
I don't know. But at the same time, it's like
that's he's probably being told this is the format of
the show. You have to at least do this for
(18:42):
them and to see if they want you know. So
I'm just like, God, making television is so hard. Well,
when it's like you're not a character, You're not a character,
you're a real human being going through these emotions and
trying to find love and trying to make television, like,
it's so messy. The other thing about not getting far
on Michelle season is that he is an experience that
(19:03):
it comes to the production element. He probably just had
like no backbone with it, Like he just thought that
you go along with anything that's suggested, because as we
said on this show many times, there's always free will.
You always can make your own decisions, but like you know,
you're encouraged or suggested one way or the other. And
(19:24):
he just went with every suggestion and every suggestion. Is
standing up there at the little iced podium at the
Rose ceremony like and saying I slept with both of
you and I love all of you, like that was
the most produced decision. Yes, he would never and he
has so broken down at this point, like he is
(19:47):
a shell of himself. You can just see it, like
he doesn't know what to do. As he says, I'm
so broken. Yes he is. He's so broken and so
he like and he doesn't on d sand production and
he doesn't you know, you're right, he just doesn't have
the experience. I said to the producers at one point
(20:08):
at the end of my season, just tell me what
you want me to do. I'm so broken, I'm so tired,
I'm so done. I just want to go home. Like
what do you need me to do I'll do it,
So he's probably you know, I just feel so bad because,
like you could tell on these podcast interviews and he's
not okay right now, He's just not okay. Well you
(20:31):
know you you've been really open about your mental health struggles,
and so that probably brings a whole other component of
empathy when you're watching him. I don't want to make
excuses for him, like, um, because I agree like some
of his behavior I do not agree with, so I
don't want to make excuses. But at the same time,
I'm like, he is not okay, So I want to
(20:51):
give him like empathy and compassion for not being okay.
Right I know, because when he showed up to do
our interview lastly, he was in the dumps and I
felt bad. Yeah, okay, uh, let's talk about Gabby. Because
Gabby like had some good hero moments. She was not
(21:13):
going to give into like her feelings of love because
of his behavior. And I think we all, I feel
like we all wanted her to just walk away, right
every I think everyone was gonna be like like rooting
(21:34):
for Gabby and she walked away, and then like we're
all rooted for you, and yeah, and then she came back.
I was surprised that she came back. Uh. We were
at we were doing in a watch party at the
coffee shop and bar Roder's yesterday and everybody started clapping
when she said, I will not accept your rose, and
I was like, wait, is this the first time somebody
(21:55):
hasn't accepted Oh, I can't think, I can't think. I
can't think of one. Um. Yeah, that was like she's
she she handled tough situations like a chap. Like I'm
so jealous of how like articulate she was, and she
was able to explain her feelings so well. Uh me too.
(22:19):
I was like I sometimes I well, I think I'm
getting better that every year and with every therapy session
I have, but I still wouldn't have handled that the
way she did. And I was like, I don't know her,
and I'm so proud of her. Yeah, I agree, I agree.
And then the other side, Rachel just seems so hopelessly devoted. Okay,
(22:40):
she's so in love with him that I'm just like,
can you please marry this girl? She's just gonna love
you forever? And she just she just yeah with without
like it's unconditional seeming. Yeah, she really likes since the
get go. I think she really believe that this was
(23:00):
her person, and then he felt the same way. And
so now this is all just like coming crashing down
in like one episode of her being like, I'm not
his love, like I'm not, and she's trying to process
it in real time, and she also is handling it
so well, but like maybe more of the way I
would handle it. But she's just the poor thing, did
(23:22):
not see any of this coming, and she's just like, Wow,
this is my person, and now I don't know if
I'm his. I definitely related to Rachel Moore in this moment.
While I respected and like wanted to be Gabby, I
knew that I was right. I was like that moment,
you know, it's like, oh God, I hate him, but
(23:45):
I love him so much that I will forgive anything
he does just to be with him. Let's talk about
the girls meeting the families after this break, all right.
(24:07):
I think we can all agree that the Clayton's dad
is awesome and we wish that we could see more
of him, and that we wish that Clayton was had
like the brain of his dad, like his his like
matured brain, his dad is so logical and Clayton is
so emotional. I'm like that Clayton's dad is like he
(24:29):
was just like, yeah, of course they're upset. Yeah. No,
Like it's so like obvious to like a you know,
especially like a father figure. That's what I mean. It
was like the ultimate like twenty something versus dad. Like
his dad is the ultimate dad, Like my dad would
have talked to me the exact same way. But he
also had a warmth about him. While he was like
(24:50):
being real he was, he was just like he felt
warm and like I was like, this man, we needed
more of him. Yeah yeah. Instead, I actually ran into
him in the elevator UM after UM filming the last night,
I was like Clayton's dad and then I was like you,
well his mom was there too, and I said, I
(25:12):
know this is probably so hard on you know, the
family doesn't sign up for this, and it's so hard
on you guys. And I said, but you, but everybody
loves you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, so Gabby comes first.
I don't think there's anything like super monumental about either
of these meetings. Is there anything that stood out to you?
(25:35):
It just seemed like they like the families like both girls.
But it wasn't like a lot of other family meeting
times that we've seen where the family was super into
one person or like had a strong opinion. They're just
like I felt like it was very interesting the fact
that they just like blossed over that he almost ruined
(25:55):
both of their lives and now they're meeting their families,
Like it was just like they just showed up and
there like, hey, like remember the other night that was crazy? Huh?
And they like kissed and like when I met their
families and it was like nice and pleasant, and I
was like, what is happening? Yeah? And the did they
even ask did they the Susie thing? How much should
(26:19):
they talk about Susie upfront? Now I'm like just not
remembering did you make a big deal out of Suzie?
Like he was like in Susie's gone, um, And now
I'm moving on to these two. I guess like what
would have been interesting to see is the family question, like,
all right, well are either of these girls like a
(26:40):
consolation prize? They yeah, they did, they did say that. Okay,
they did say that, yeah yeah, And he was like no.
But then he like to me, what would have really
hurt was watching this episode back and feeling like he
was like, I love you too, Gabby, I love you too, Rachel.
I'm in love with these But then Susie a once
(27:01):
in a lifetime woman. I'm like, well, that's exactly when
he started saying all this at the end of both
family meetings, it was just like, okay, well, now like
he he has to dump these other two girls, like
he has to because it just yes, like you cannot
do this. That would be like it would be very
Peter Weber esque, like I know that. Peter was definitely
(27:23):
not as obvious. He didn't say such strong language, but
like all of us viewers were like, Okay, Maddie is
definitely the front runner. And when Maddie left, it was like, oh, really, Hannah,
and you gotta break up with her. And then he
ended up proposing, and we're like, what in the world
He literally told the other girl she was number one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Um.
(27:45):
We missed a huge chunk of conversation from the previous
section of the episode, the I Love You Most, when
Gabby was like, I don't want to be like loved
the most or like I need to be like the
only one that is loved and accepted. What do you
think about that term? It's interesting because when you put
(28:06):
like love the most, it just sounds wrong, Like there's
something about it just sounds wrong. It's it's like calling
whoever he picks the winner. It's like the winner. Right.
It's now like if you were to replace the word
love with like the one that I like the most,
the one on the most compatible with it sounds so
much different, so much different. Yeah, yeah, I was just
(28:29):
on Gabby side for that one because the same. But
I also can articulate why it's so wrong. But it
is either I totally agree with you. I'm like, he
could have put it so differently. I guess it's like choosing.
It's like a child. It's like you don't like tell
a kid like I love you you just like if
(28:50):
I don't. I don't even know. See, I'm trying to
come up with the comparison and it's just not working.
So I'm just gonna leave it as it just doesn't.
It's just not right. It's just not right. It's just
not right. I mean, but what it's such a gray
area in the bachelor world of books, right and wrong. Well,
it's like in the Bachelor world, we say falling in
love versus being in love, and like, how many times
does that actually happen in the real world? Like how
(29:12):
many times is there like a phase where you're like, oh,
what's like date? I really like you, and then it
becomes there's no, there's no real life couple. That's where
the guys like, I'm falling in love with you, and
then a month later he goes, Okay, I've decided now
I am in love with you. That's why I think
that's why the viewers are so hard on the leads
and the bachelor of The Bachelor and all these people,
(29:33):
because they expect it to be like their dating world
and they're watching it because it's so relatable, but but
it's so like not right at the same time, and
they it's like it's such a confusing thing to watch
without getting angry. Well, I think that's why Clayton was
so upset last week at the backlash. He was like,
I was dating as the bachelor in a bachelor world,
(29:56):
with which I thought was totally different in the real world.
But maybe it isn't as different in the real world
because everybody has these problems. But I was told in
the Bachelor World it's okay to do this because they're
giving me three overnight date keys whatever. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
I don't know. I really wish all the Bachelor and
bachelorttes would come forward and be like, Okay, it's love
(30:18):
with this many people in the fantasy suite. And I said,
I love you, but off camera to this, but like
he's so Clayton is so exposed right now. Yeah. He
also like he just doesn't have like a connection like
relationships necessarily with like past, where like I feel like
a lot of Bachelor's they just kind of like they
(30:40):
emerge with the support system from the franchise. And Ben
talked to me about this. He was like, yo, dude,
I wanted to help guide you by like, but you
didn't take it, and this is what happened got And
I think that's why it was so cool to have
myself and taste to there for bachelorettes, because I feel
like we really were able to mentor like these women
(31:05):
and not just be a host role. We were really
able to help in these situations, which I think we
clearly needs. Well. I mean, you could argue that Jesse
was supposed to be that but I do think that
Jesse took on a traditional host role, not a mentor role,
and you guys even had that label of mentor or guide,
(31:25):
and I think we should men. They didn't want to
pay us because they didn't want to pay us for
a host role. But did they do that with Michelle season?
Did you pay you host role? Oh? I thought you
guys got to change title the second season. No, we
were still special guests in in the credits. Oh goodness. Okay, Well,
(31:48):
I have to say that I think that Chris Harrison
was very miss last night, especially, you know. Yeah, I agree.
It's love Jesse. He's great. He's so nice, it's so
fun to talk to, and I think he's done a
great job in host ral. I do think that last
night he was like, dude, I don't know what the
(32:08):
did I tell you? Yeah? I agree, I think um,
First of all, Jesse was Canadian and I love him,
and he's literally one of the nicest. Seriously, every time
he's on here, it's just so fun. I like smile
the entire time we're talking. Yeah, he's so great. It's
just Chris Harriston was able to navigate any situation with
(32:33):
like advice and um, I don't I don't know. I
don't even know. I just think it. Like Jesse was
more like umm, almost like like how insane it was. Yeah,
He's like, hey, I'm a viewer along for this crazy
(32:55):
ride of yours. I cannot tell you what to do
because you're far too far in dude. Okay, So then
let's just get to the conversation that he has with
his family about Susie. Like you already kind of brushed
on it. But he has this realization after both of
these dates family dates, that Susie's the one, and he
(33:22):
he just wants to go and pursue that, even if
it kind of screws up everything else. And I respect this,
Like I'm really into this because, like he says, he
wants to do this, and he wants to risk losing
the other girls because he can't possibly think of a
future in which he's constantly questioning what if what if
(33:44):
I went after Susie? And that's great that I love
that decision. What I don't like well that these women
probably had to go through all of it. Oh that's
where thank you. That's that's the supporting him and being
there for him during these realizations but like it's to
me like, that's gosh, it's so hard because the fantasy
(34:08):
sweets are there for my person. From my personal experience,
the fantasy sweets was to literally like sex is an
important thing to me in a relationship and into the
see and how you know how you feel with that
person in those moments, and and to me, it's like,
you take all these relationships as far as you possibly
(34:29):
can to feel so confident in your decision at the end,
and that is a terrible like I always say, this
is a terrible foundation to start a relationship on, but
that is what the show is and things are there
to do. Meeting the families is part of that. You
take it that far and you introduce to your families
to feel that and be like, wait, I've realized in
(34:53):
this moment that Susie is the person that I want
to be with because I'm still thinking about her and
want to be here with my family. Thank you for
leading my thought in that direction because that's exactly where
I wanted to go when because I knew when Okay,
so Ben and Nick both saw the episode before me,
(35:13):
and they both previewed well, at least Ben did to
me that like he was not going like Clayton was
gonna look even worse. And when I was watching him
make this decision that he was going to go after
Susie after the families, I was like, is this the moment?
Is this what people are going to be annoyed at?
I'm like I can see that because you know, like, yeah,
(35:37):
he strung him along, he begged them to say and
then just decided he didn't want me with either one
of them, right, right? Is I think that it was
There's no other way of doing it like that would
have helped me. I think. I think what people need
to think about if they are judging him for that,
is like, yeah, it's going to hurt these girls even
(35:59):
worse because they were dragged on for a couple other
days and they met the family. But put yourself in
that position, like you really might need that one extra day,
You might need to see that girl with your family
to really know. And that's how we found out. And
that's in my opinion, Okay, yeah, it just sets because
(36:21):
we love these two women so much and they've been
through so much at this point that you're like, please
don't put them through anything else. But at the end
of the day. This is part of the show. This
is part of the format. You do need to see
them with your family. You do need to have those
overnight moments. You do need to have these like take
it as far as you can go times to really
(36:41):
have clarity on what actually you want. Yeah, and guys,
just think about it. That is like a normal season.
Like these people look at the runner up. They get
taken all the way to the altar, really in the altar,
and they get broken up with But you don't get
mad about it because that's the way it goes. That's
the show. Yeah, that's exactly right, and it's it just
(37:04):
sucks because I think we're rooting so hard for these
women at the at this point that that's why everyone's
so mad. But really, this is this is normal for
the show. But probably another thing, going back to Blake's comment,
if if we knew him better going into this and
we were really connected to him as a character, we'd
be rooting for his happiness. But we know these girls
(37:25):
basically just as well as we know him, so we
end up rooting for them even more, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
just it's so true. Okay, we leave this episode off
with Clinton saying that he's going off to get Susie,
and well, we know what happens because we've we've seen
(37:46):
the screenen nurse, But you guys will find out tonight.
And that's all I can say about that. Yeah, yeah,
it's I mean, it's again another fascinating episode, and I
can't wait to watch the after the final rose because
like I'm also be like, I'm watching this as a viewer,
and I just can't wait to see how he because
(38:07):
he's probably learned so much from this and grown in
the last few months more than he has in his
whole life, and I'm very curious to see how he
handles this situation. Yeah, same, same, Yeah, all right, Well
that's enough of the episode. After this break, we are
going to go into Bachelor headlines, and I'm only going
to do ones that pertain to you, Caitlin. I mean,
(38:31):
look at you, seven years removed from the show, and
most of the headlines pertain to you in one way
or another. You're that much of a rock star. Okay,
see you guys in a second. Okay, Okay, Caitlin, I'm
(38:53):
gonna read the headline. Is he Normally Ben would read
the headline and then I would describe, you know, the
story today. I'm going to read the headline and then
you are going to tell me what it's all about,
because it's about your fiance in this case. Okay, ready,
Jason Tarctic says that Clayton did not handle himself appropriately
(39:17):
with Susie, but everyone makes mistakes. So what's Jason's take
on all of this? Been? Oh my gosh, he's so
funny because I think he forgets he was also on
the show and how hard it was, and like he
watches it now as a you. I'm like, can you
have a little like more compassion for the situation? And um,
(39:38):
so he he was really, I mean he felt the
same way as I did. He's like, you're not gonna
He's like, you're not gonna like the way he talks
to Susie. And I was like, oh, that's so fair. Um,
but he's already been dragged on the internet. So let's like,
let's of course stand up for Susie, and you know,
let's say that that's not right of him just week
(40:00):
that way, but let's not you know, feed into the
hate online for him anymore than an ardience. Do you
think that both of our guys have a certain perspective
on the show that's a little bit different than us
because we were you know, we weren't always perfect and
the two of them, Jason and Jared always perfect. Perfect. Yes,
(40:21):
I say that to Jason all the time. I'm like,
you literally could not have had an easier time on
this show. And like the way that they you know,
of course it's not an edit. They portray you the
way you are, but like they really just highlighted their
perfection or just yes, totally second headline is juicy and
(40:47):
I can't wait to get your your description of it.
Jason Tartik says that he and Caitlin want kids the
second they get married. Are you gonna have a honeymoon
baby proba? Way? I hope? So, I mean I can
only like, um, like, I can only pray that when
I can get pregnant and that it can happen that
(41:09):
easily for us, because I know so many women struggle,
and so I hope that is the case. Um. Last night,
I'm not gonna lie. We were like should we just
should we just do this now? Like what really is
our wedding going to happen? What? Should we just have
a baby? Now was like in November and you said, oh, yeah,
(41:30):
definitely two. I don't know if it's going to be
two unless you do a lope or something. Yeah, I uh,
did we tell you? Um? Actually wait, I'm gonna I'm
gonna tell you that off Okay, Okay, Yeah, yeah, I
figure I think I might know where that's going. Go ahead, okay, Um,
I really want two venues. There's two venues in Nashville
(41:53):
that I'm like so set on, and so really it
will depend on when they're available for when we get married. Okay, alright,
very respectable decision. I am so glad that he chose
the venues that we did, and I would have waited
for them. Jason also talks about the way that he's
going to feel when he sees you in the wedding
(42:15):
dress for the first time. He says, what did he say? Okay? Okay,
so the quote goes like this, uh well, this is
from the Life and Starter style article. Jason explains that
the one thing they won't do is have first look photos.
No offense to Ben and Jess who did first look photos.
(42:36):
I not a fan, don't like them, not traditional enough
for me. I like the groom seeing the bride for
the first time that day in the dress as the
doors open and you see his reaction and he says, um,
he he wants the experience of, you know, seeing you
(42:57):
walk down the aisle, seeing the dress for the first time.
And if it's an inconvenience of a few hours of photos,
you know, in between the ceremony and the reception, We're
just going to have to deal with that because that's
something that no one can take from you. The second
that we close that wedding chapter, then it's time to
have kids. So I I like that your your decision,
your decision on that. I guess that's a joint decision,
(43:19):
right about having photos in between, I have I have
always dreamt of my dad walking me down the file
and my person see me for the first time, like
and getting emotional, because that's one of my favorite parts
to watch. Yeah, and like Seven Dresses moment you know
you have to get the groom at the end of
the aisle. Oh, it's so romantic and I just like
(43:40):
love that And I totally understand why people do first
look and photos like that and stuff, but I, yeah,
we don't want to do that. Tip from the wedding
pro over here, just the one who has gone through it.
Definitely assume that photos are going to take longer than
you schedule for them. Did you know that our wedding
(44:00):
we had to in the moment by the next year
hour at the reception venue because photos took long and
we wanted it to last, Yeah, longer. We were all
like our delayed. Oh interesting, Oh my gosh, I had
the best time at your wedding. I like loved every
second of that. That was so everything was perfect, Like
that's um, that's something that like we talked about as
(44:24):
like what we want our wedding to be like it
would be like yours. Well, thank you. That is the
nicest compliment and we can't hear it enough. Yeah, all right,
So now we have another headline. It's not exactly pertained
to people. I want to know if you got to
talk to him yesterday about this. So Rodney Matthews hopes
(44:45):
to find love on a Bachelor spinoff. Oh so he's
actually referring to Bachelor Live on stage because they're doing
you know, alumni, They're they're finding love like on the stage.
This is like the new way of there are finding
random guys in each city Um, the way that it
was pre COVID, but now they're taking Bachelor alumni and
(45:06):
trying to find love in like a town near them.
But I thought he was going to talk about paradise.
This is this is I don't, I don't, I don't want,
I don't care about who he finds on the stage
on Bachelor. UM live, I'm sorry, but you're not going
to find love. I mean, we don't want you to
find love there because you need to be on Paradise. So, like,
(45:28):
do you think he's gonna be on Paradise? Did you
talk to him about all about that? Um? We honestly,
we were too busy trying to nail a TikTok to
talk about anything else. So no, I didn't, But I
really want him to be on Paradise. Okay, he's very sweet.
Any other behind the scenes scoop that you got from
yesterday because you were there with Michelle Nick Claire Rodney,
(45:50):
is that it? Yeah? Um? Yeah, I'm trying to think
of any scoops that I got. But truly, they kind
of kept us separated because of OVID. Um oh I
heard that. That's still like they were still pretty strict
about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all had to get
like tested three days before, two days before the day
(46:10):
of and like masks, and but then you go in
the room and everybody's there with that. It doesn't make
any sense. But um, what was like? Oh you know
who I met Nick's girlfriend? Who was so she's amazing. Yeah,
she's amazing. We love them together. Isn't he just the
happiest you've ever seen him? Yes? And just so they're
(46:31):
just so great together and supportive and sweet and happy
and it's amazing. I know. It's like, Okay, Nick, let's
just let's just get a ring on it. Yeah, lock
it up. Yeah, did you get anything from Claire? Because
Nick posted something about Claire being single, and the last
time we had a headline about Claire, um, it was
about her maybe hanging out with another guy from our season.
(46:53):
Oh yeah, Okay, from what I gathered, I definitely think
she's single. I don't want to speak for her, but
that's what I gathered and like ready to mingle. So
all right. Not to wrap this up on a sad note,
but I have to. Um. The other bachelor headline we
have is that that clint our our List's death was
(47:16):
revealed as a suicide this week, and um, you know,
he died on January eleven, and it's just so sad,
you know, it's just like there's I don't have any
words for it. I mean, Caitlin obviously, you know, had
him on our season and I met him a couple
of times, and it's just so incredibly sad. It's I
(47:38):
reached out to his sister just to be like, I've
never met her, I don't know that, but I just
wanted to be like, I am so sorry, Like I
cannot imagine going through that, like with a family member. Um,
depression is so real. I wish that, you know. I
wish everybody had the proper resources and and things if
(48:00):
they're going through something to get help like they do,
but like I wish people really used those resources to
help them because I understand depression and mental health problems
and it's just so tragic and I just I have
no words because I'm like, I just can't believe it.
I can't believe it when I when I saw the news,
when I heard about it, when I read about I
(48:22):
was just sick to my stomach because even though obviously
things didn't end great between us, I truly heard really
great things about him from everybody else, like the way
his friends spoke about him, his family, his people in
the wrestling world, the way for him, Like they all
spoke super highly up him. And so I'm it's absolutely tragic. Yeah,
(48:49):
I wish that there was something than that to say.
But exactly what you said, you know, just like seek help.
Don't be afraid to talk about what you're going through, you, Yes,
and like there's hotlines you can call and like when
you're in that moment, Like I just I don't know.
It's so I can't ever like put myself in that
(49:10):
position to like know what that dark of the time
would feel like. But it must be so scary to
reach out for help. But like those those resources are
there for a reason because there are people out there
who can help you. Yes, all right, Well until tomorrow, guys,
then we were going to be here breaking down the
(49:31):
finale with Serene. Have you met Serena yet? Um? Yeah
I did. She was on the date that I hosted
on Clayton season and she is lovely. Okay, Well, can't wait.
I'm sure she's going to have a whole bunch of
insider knowledge on all of these girls. Feelings because I'm
sure she's good friends with the top three being that
she was, you know, top four. All right, Caitlin, you
(49:55):
are the best man, Mike crutch word really is all
right when Ben's not here, alright, alright, alright, have one,
I have one. Two. I always have like if I
can't even listen back to my own podcast because I'm like, oh,
shut up, Caitlin, stop saying the same every time. What's
your word? What do you keep saying? Trying to I'm
trying to think, I feel like I always say, Um,
(50:18):
I don't know. I'm gonna have to get back to
you on that one, because there's I'll be in the moment,
like I'm gonna podcast later with Katie Thurston actually and
I'll figure out what my work is still happen. Okay.
That makes me think about just just all the people
complaining about Clayton and Susie saying like like like and
(50:40):
you know that they say like more in the context
of the show because they're trying to think about the
most careful word. That's the most careful wording, and they're
describing emotions is already awkward. So when you put the
two together, you don't want to get in trouble on TV.
You don't want somebody to hate you. You're trying trying
to describe your feelings. You just say like a lot
(51:02):
and you're nervous, just like that's just what you do.
It's fine. Don't make fun of him for it. I
love you, Caitlin, thanks for being here. I've been Ashley,
and you've been. You've been okay. Thanks bye. Follow the
Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on iHeart Radio,
or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts
Hosts And Creators
Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
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