May 17, 2026 • 43 mins
JJ Reddick of Federal Premium discussed the brand’s 100+ year history with rimfire ammo and the huge variety of loads available across platforms.
Marty Van Der Heiden of Volquartsen Firearms shares the company’s 50-year evolution from custom barrels to premium precision .22 rifles and pistols known for accuracy, lightweight carbon-fiber barrels, and excellent triggers.
The rise in popularity of double-stack 1911 pistols as fun range guns.
Gun Talk 05.17.26 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Marty Van Der Heiden of Volquartsen Firearms shares the company’s 50-year evolution from custom barrels to premium precision .22 rifles and pistols known for accuracy, lightweight carbon-fiber barrels, and excellent triggers.
The rise in popularity of double-stack 1911 pistols as fun range guns.
Gun Talk 05.17.26 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
All right, welcome back to gun Talk. I'm your guest host,
Ryan Gresham filling in for Thomas. Week is on the
road and we are doing the show from gun Talk headquarters,
actually so down here in South Louisiana at Range Ready Studios.
Range Ready Studios is the part of this place that
puts on events. We put on classes that are open
(00:35):
to the public. Classes. Yep, you can come here. You
can train with us. You can learn to shoot pistols
and rifles and a bunch of other stuff and get
real proficient with it with our buddy Chris Serina, who
runs the training program. But we also put on media events.
We put on product launches. Obviously, you guys know, we
work with so many different companies within the world of guns,
(00:57):
and we have a bunch of them here for an
event this week. It's called plink Up Palooza, which really
centers around rim fires. So twenty two's and even seventeen
hm rs and some you know some other stuff. Twenty
two mags. Rim fires is where, for a lot of
us where you start your shooting journey. You learn to
shoot on those rim fires because they're low recoil, they're accurate,
(01:20):
they're fun to shoot, they're low noise. And I think
for a lot of us, is we come back, we
circle back to those rim fires because they're just there's
kind of it's where we started. Since JJ, I'm gonna
bring you in because we've got the man, the myth,
the legend, and you guys listening may not realize, but
you're you're talking to a legend right now, or listen
(01:42):
to a legend. JJ. He is communications with Federal Premium YEP,
which you know. Look, let's be honest. We always say,
if you work for an AMMO company in the in
the world of guns, you're everybody's buddy because you've got
the sauce man you make what makes this stuff happen.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yes, so I am the communications manager of the PR manager.
So I work with all the media folks, editors, writers, influencers,
TV hosts.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And yeah, yeah, whatever the heck we are these days YouTubers. Yes,
Federal Premium one of the bigger AMO companies out there. Yes,
you guys really do it all. I mean you do shotshell,
you do center fire, you do pistol, you do rifle,
and you do a ton of rim fire.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yes, So Federal Ammunition, that's that's our name as far
as our website goes it, it's Federal Premium. But you know,
the premium category of ammunition actually started in the late seventies,
but we've always just been federal, Federal cartridge, sure, and
then Federal ammunition. So we just call ourselves federal, you know. Okay,
(02:52):
But I think one of the biggest things that you
were hitting on with rim fire is just and why
I think rimfires is so popular and also you know,
deserves its own event like plankt Palooza would be just
how many platforms it's on. I sat in the classroom
this morning, you know, and people were bringing out ar
fifteen platforms, pistol platforms. You know, in the past, you
(03:16):
would have rim fire was always either a bolt gun
or you know, mostly a rifle. That's why twenty two
long rifle. But now in the last well ten fifteen years,
how many platforms, how many different platforms there are? Sure
that you can shoot it from and also you can buy,
like for Smith and Wesson, you can buy a handgun
(03:38):
that's in in twenty two long rifle and then a
handgun that's in nine millimeters the same handgun. It's this
chamber of different so you can train, you know, can
train room fire and then and then carry with center fire.
So that's why I think rimfire is so is so popular.
Just how many more platforms there were than when it
first started, one hundred.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Sure in Ammo for really, for rim fire, Ammo is
the heart of this stuff because the variety is wild,
and I think that it's fair to say that you
could do a lot more things with this. Amma. You've
got super Sonic, you've got sub Sonic, you've got shorts,
(04:19):
you've got you know, ratshot, I guess is one little
weird category. But there's something in the performance of rim fire,
and you have to find what your gun likes. Is
that fair to say?
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Ah?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yes, definitely if you look at rim fire as a whole,
That's what's so cool about rimfire is that, well, Ammo,
in general, there's a cartridge, but then there's all the
components of the cartridge. Sure, that's how the cartridge is loaded,
so the different velocities the cartridge is loaded to the
different bullets. You know, you can have flatnose bullets, you
(04:53):
can have hallow point bullets, you can have segmenting hallow
point bullets, you can have coated bullets, and then different
grain weights. With all that, they're all intended for different purposes.
And ammunition as a whole is like that, especially center
fire and handgun, but rim fire, you really see all
those various differences.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Changing them can change what you're really doing with.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
It, right, absolutely, absolutely, and so Federal Ammunition was we
just celebrated, well not just but we celebrated our one
hundredth anniversary four years ago, so we're one hundred and
four now. And rim fire came on right away, like
we started with shotshell and then in nineteen twenty two.
(05:37):
Rimfire came in nineteen twenty three, so we have been
producing it for over one hundred years. And a lot
of those same loads, a lot of the loads like
you referred to the cbs or the shorts, you know,
the longs and then the long rifle, you know, those different cartridges,
those were all there and started in nineteen twenty three
(05:59):
and we are low. Some of the same ones still
for one hundred years, so I mean we still we
still have all those a variety. But but for federal
you really do have you know, your your your base loads,
you're you're champion seven forty five loads in that kind
of thing. If you really want to go into the
(06:19):
huge variety of rim fire and the history of rim fire,
then that CCI is the rim Fire King. Sure you know,
we can talk CCI in a different episode if you want.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. CCI kind of a sister company, yeah,
sister companies. Yes, yeah, I mean you guys are definitely
have the knowledge and the history with rim fire. After
the break, I want to talk about there's a lot
of new things in the way in talking about projectiles
being loaded in rim fires that kind of changes the
(06:51):
way we think about what a rim fire can do.
We're going to talk about that right after this.
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Speaker 2 (09:44):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. I'm your guest host,
Ryan Gresha. I'm filling in for Tom this week, and
we are at an event called Plinkapalooza and we're talking
with a bunch of different companies about rim fires. And
my guest right now is JJ re Reich from Federal JJ.
We were talking before the break about, you know, the
in the old days, even I'm not that old, I guess,
(10:05):
but just going back a couple decades, when you think
about shooting twenty two shoot shooting rim fires, you know,
you go, I'll go grab a brick and go out
there and load it up and shoot it. And I mean, honestly,
you probably didn't think a whole lot about the bullet.
It was like, Okay, we're gonna go shoot soup cans,
or we're gonna go maybe do some hunting, some squirrel hunting
(10:28):
or whatever. But it was kind of like, yeah, I
mean whatever, it's supersonic or hypersonic or whatever the marketing said.
But it was kind of just like loaded up and
go for it. But I feel in the last i
don't know, five or plus years, there's stuff that I'm like, okay,
wait a minute, you guys are loading stuff that's self
defense loads, hunting loads. There's a lot of new changes.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yes, so the self defense, which at this event we're
gonna be shooting ballistic gel blocks. That's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, that's gonna be amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
They can't we see it. Yeah, So there are some
people who want to carry twenty two long rifle or
a twenty two mag and it's either because of strength
limitations in their hands, or you know, wanting something that's
more comfortable to shoot things like that. So we wanted
(11:17):
to give options for that. So our self defense option
is what's called punch. And so the twenty two bullet
on that would be a solid bullet. It's a nickel plated,
solid bullet. It's not going to expand much, but it's
going to get your penetration. So yeah, so you want
for any self defense load, you want something that opens
(11:38):
up or mushroom so to speak, that actually has that
expansion to create a larger wound channel. And then you
also want depth to make sure you get into far
enough into the vitals. You are limited with room fire
obviously with size, sure, so you can have there's two
(12:00):
schools of thought there. You either want the expansion or
you want the penetration depth. So the Federal punch that
is a hard bullet, nickel plated, that's going to give
you the penetration. If you want something more of an expansion,
then you want to go to federal sister company or
affiliate company CCI and they have something called uppercut and
(12:21):
that that's a too long rifle that will do the
expansion on that.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, different bullets, different designs, exactly different and different, two
different schools of thought.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Sure, for what you want a defensive.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Is there any idea of what punch does into gelatin?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Typically, Yeah, it's just going to punch it. It's just
going to get it's just going to give you the
the the penetration depth.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Okay, Okay, So I mean, and people will hear this
if they're into this, if you carry, like, oh my gosh,
twenty two is for carrying. But I mean, the fact
of the matter is it's people say it all the time,
but it is true. Better to have a gun than
not have a gun when you need something, when something
bad is happening. And there are a lot of very
(13:06):
small twenty twos that might be a little pocket gun
that's kind of a maybe it's not your normal, everyday,
every day carry situation, but it's an option. And like
you said, there are people who they're more comfortable with that.
I'd rather you carry that with good amo like punch
than carry nothing. You know, you're thinking about your loved ones,
your your your mom, or your or your wife or
(13:28):
whatever that might be. Like, hey, listen, this is something
they are comfortable shooting. They can put all the shots
on target. Okay, that's great.
Speaker 8 (13:38):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
If it doesn't have the target, it's not going to
matter anyway.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 7 (13:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
So our job isn't to help people make that decision.
Our job is to give them the options and the
products that would work for them in the situation that
they decide to do. So, you know, you'd want a
personal defense bullet for that application. If you're varmin hunting
with a twenty two l R, then you want a
varnment bullet. Now, a varnment bullet is going to be
something that really just kind of blows up. You know,
(14:04):
they say explosive performance. What that means is that bullet
is constructed as soon as it hits it is to
just break apart. Right, So if you are you know,
varmint is prairie dog so to speak, or anything that
you know.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And that's really designed to reduce ricochet, right, Well, it's well,
actually it's it's more designed to to have that deadly
explosion on that.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
See on a small avarm, something that you're not going
to eat right, something that you just want to die quickly.
And you know if you if you're trying to squirrel
hunt then and you want the meat, then you're you're
going to be using more of a small game a
bullet that's going to have the traditional exension.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I told you you got to you got to pick
the right ambo for the job. Yes, so if.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
You so, if you're squirrel hunting and you picked like
a full metal jacket bullet or a target bullet, it's
not it'll hit the squirrel and go right the zip
right through the squirrel, and it's not going to have
it's not going to release any of its ballistic potential.
It's not going to release.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Chances that you might not harvest that game. You might
lose it.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Right, you want something that's going to you know, give
that shock or you know give that Yeah, so it
expands a little bit and kills the squirrel right away,
just zip through it and squirrel runs away and guns
with a hole. You know, find it right, So you
don't want to shoot target ammunition at something that you
want to you know that you're hunting and you want
(15:34):
to eat. You don't want to shoot varm and ammunition
at that because then the whole thing is going to
be kind of basically exploded explosion.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Well, did you there's a trend right now in super
accurate and even sort of long range rim fire, Yes,
long range twenty two?
Speaker 8 (15:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Are you guys doing some loads for that type of stuff?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, so we you know, we do have some competition
ammunition that we for pistol, because pistol is a big
thing for competition. The longer range rifle type of stuff
we always say are green Tag. So, uh, Standard velocity
is a rim fire around that has been very popular
(16:17):
with people who you know, shoot for accuracy, and it's
the standard velocity. I think it's I feel stupid for
not knowing off the top of my head, but I
think it's twelve hundred twelve Okay, your standard velocity. So
that's the muzzle velocity.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
And then green tag.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
The cool thing about green Tag and I'm talking CCI.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
By the way.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Okay, so with green Tag, basically standard velocity came out
and then they do a bunch of when you're loading
it to test to see where it is in that
velocity spec because you have to hit a certain velocity
spec to be Sammy speck to be sure, the right sure,
the right cartridge to be it's out. But anyway, or
(17:01):
you have your own internal velocity spec specs that you
want to meet when you're creating the consistency of the
am what you want.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, you have to have consistency, especially when you're talking
about target shooting in accuracy. I mean because especially in
the accuracy that's expected from a competitor. Changes in velocity,
you know, a big deviation can can make the difference.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Absolutely, absolutely, So Santa velocity is always great. It's got
a really nice uh range of the specifications that it
can hit. But green tags are a lot smaller. So
the specification of hitting green tags is a lot smaller.
And really when they're loading centatard velocity and they're and
they're testing lots and a lot of ammunition is getting
(17:48):
into that smaller range of of of of specifications. Then
they were the olden days. They just took this green
sticker and slapped it on that and then they would
send it out and so then you'd have your standard
velocity and then you'd have your standard velocity with the
green sticker and so then they just started calling a
green green sticker a green tag, and that's that's how
(18:09):
green tag came about. But that would be CCI's best
ammunition for for you know, shooting longer range.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
What about just are there any tips or or or
maybe perhaps product lines when you're talking about accuracy, because
I think people think twenty two is okay, we're plinking,
we're shooting cans or whatever, But like, what if the
accuracy expectations would you really get down to an accurate
gun in a in a a good rest. I mean,
(18:38):
what could somebody expect to shoot and maybe what would
be some good options for them?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I mean everyone's chasing that you know one minute, you
know one m o A or that one inch group,
Like that's even with really non fire too. But rin
fiber has always been kind of like a fifty yard
type of thing, but now one hundred yards not not uncommon,
and even longer it's not uncommon. You know, we talked
(19:05):
about your standard ammunition, federal ammunition, and you talked about
the premium ammunition, so premium ammunition. A difference between standard
and premium is more premium components. So maybe a nickel
plated case you know, a better copper plated bullet, you know,
(19:26):
better more consistent powders. You know, more of the premium
components goes into it goes into the premium line of ammunition.
It's the same with center fires, the same with with
with handgun, and it's the same with rim fire. So
if you are trying to get more accuracy or more consistency,
then you always want to spend a little bit more
to get the more premium component ammunition.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I mean, you think about it. I mean one of
the biggest sports in the Olympics is shooting, and I
mean rim fires. That's something that we think about what's
possible with sure, Yeah, it could be incredibly accurate. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So and Federal's history did help with all of that
twenty two long rifle in the Olympics really, yes, in
the nineties and eighties and nineties, I believe, and that's
how gold medal came about.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So I wanted you to bring that up because that's
one that when we're siting in and we're getting all
this stuff ready. Chris Sarno, who you know, I end
up tasking him with a lot of this. Yes, he says, well,
let me see if this gun really shoots and he
loads that in the gun.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yes, yes, so you know, we we that's the whole
eighties nineties with the in the Olympic gold medals that
we helped to win and that kind of thing. That
really helped get out room fire and improved and upgraded,
and it helped with that premium you know, branding for that.
(20:55):
But again this is for different components, different testing procedures,
different accuracy specifications with the engineering team all that. So
it's really cool to be part of that history too.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
It's amazing JJ. So what's your first memory of shooting
a rim fire?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
First memory of shooting a rim fire? Well, I mean
for me, it's like that's what we all passed our
hunter safety test with. Yeah, and we're true twelve, you know,
so I know, I definitely, I guess. I mean getting
my hunter Safety certificate when I was twelve was a
(21:33):
huge deal for me. I remember having to go into
the classrooms.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
It's like that big first certification. Yeah, you're you know,
I think my dad even dropped me off by myself,
and it's you're in this room full of some kids
and some adults and you've got this this grown up
teacher and you're thinking, I got to pay attention because one,
you know, you want to pass it because you want
to be able to go hunting or whatever. Right, But
it's just it's a whole lot of fun. JJ, thanks
(22:00):
for being with us. Is fun, I mean Plinka Palooza.
We're reinvigorating the fun of rim fires at this event
and we'll be back with more gun Talk more rim
fire talk right after this. Hey, welcome back to gun Talk.
(22:24):
I'm your guest host, Ryan Gresh. I'm filling in for
Tom this week. He is on the road, but kind
of so are we. We're actually recording this show at
the gun Talk headquarters and we're putting on an event
called Plinka Paloosa, all centered around rim fire. So that's
kind of the subject of the day. And we'll be
posting some of these videos online, so make sure you
(22:45):
follow gun Talk on YouTube, Facebook, x Instagram. We're actually
filming this episode of gun Talk and so we'll be
posting some of these interviews and clips. You guys can
go check that out. But they can't keep us down, guys.
You just keep subscribing, keep following, keep ringing that bell.
One of the things that that the YouTubers say these days,
(23:06):
you know, do that and then you'll be able to
stay in touch with us. But our guest up on
the show right now, Marty vander Heyden, did I say
it sort of right?
Speaker 8 (23:15):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
From Voltcourts and Firearms and Volcourts and is for people
who love really nice rim fires. They know you guys
right right yep. But you know it's maybe it's like
it's a smaller company, not maybe the names of like
a Smith and Wesson or some of those other of
those guys out there, but you've kind of become this
(23:38):
name in the gun culture when they say, okay, now
I'm ready to move up to something real special, you're
one of the guys that they think of. So talk
about where did Vulcourtson start and where is it now?
Speaker 9 (23:50):
So it started back in like nineteen seventy four. We've
been in business about fifty two years. Tom Volcourson started
at what he started out as just bluing and tinkering
with guns and stocks and upgrading some things on his
friend's stuff, and then he got into actually, believe it
or not, revolvers and he was doing a lot of
(24:13):
revolvers and if like I said, if you ever see
one or find one, I would grab.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
It of courts and revolver.
Speaker 9 (24:19):
Yes, and uh great, I mean it was they're prestige.
I mean they're they're awesome. Uh So when he got
into that, but then he started messing around with twenty
two's out of just one of his buddies that he
had one and just wasn't working. So he started working
on it.
Speaker 7 (24:35):
He got it.
Speaker 9 (24:36):
Going and they were like, next thing, you know, another
buddy would drop one off, another buddy would drop one off,
and that's how it just started kind of going. And uh,
it's kind of a funny story I know. Scott tells
me all the time about Tom went over to Brown Els,
which is close by us. It's like two and a
half hours from you.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
You guys are in Isoland, Yepka.
Speaker 9 (24:56):
And he told I believe it was Frank Brown.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Owl or yeah, probably Frank.
Speaker 9 (25:03):
Yeah it was either Frank or even Frank's dad or
something back then, and said, this is what I'm going
to do, and this is my barrel I want to
go with. And they're like, there's no way you're going
to be able to sell that.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
For that price.
Speaker 9 (25:14):
He's like, well, we're going to try and we've come
along the ways then, So.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
What was the what was the first barrel for?
Speaker 9 (25:23):
It was just for a ruger, just a standard ten
to twenty two rigger replacement barrel.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, that's what I thought. Yep, So make it started
out making barrels for twenty twos. What was it about
twenty twos? Because you guys are known as this twenty
two rifles and pistols. You guys make these fancy twenty twos.
Why twenty two's.
Speaker 9 (25:42):
Because nobody at that point, nobody really back then, nobody
really dealt with anything with the twenty twos. You just
want to I think it was Sears or Montgomery Wards
or right coast to coast and just picked one up
and you know, on the farm or something like that.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
But it was just a sledgehammer.
Speaker 7 (25:59):
You didn't know.
Speaker 9 (26:00):
Nobody. Yeah, nobody got into those much. And so Tom
was like, well, if nobody's involved in it, we should
get involved in it.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So yeah, find the white space. I like it. So,
you know, fast forward. I mean, you guys over the
years have made a lot of things. What do you
what are you kind of known for these days?
Speaker 9 (26:18):
We're still known for like our accuracy, precision, everything like that. Lightweight.
We were like one of some of the first companies
ever to come out with like a corveron fiber barrel
to lighten everything up. So we're more of like on
target precision accuracy, but we do we have a lot
of people that shoot competition with all of our rifle
rifles and pistols.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Is it more on that the accuracy side or is
it more on the speed side? There is a little bit.
Speaker 9 (26:44):
Majority was all on accuracy and then the speed came
because of the lightweight stuff that we did. We different uppers,
different barrels, lightweight barrels. We have good triggers, polls and accuracy,
you know, stuff like that which helps with accuracy. You know,
two pound, two quarter pound trigger pole, Chris trigger pole.
So I mean that helps with everything with acuracy and speed.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
What type of accuracy should someone expect out of their
twenty two rifle?
Speaker 9 (27:11):
It'd be like subma really something like that yep.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Which was in the past was kind of like unheard of, right, right,
A lot of it back in the past was you know,
two and a half three minute of squirrel sort of yes, yeah,
if he's a big.
Speaker 9 (27:26):
Squirrel, if he's a big squirrel, aim for the.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Body, yeah, center of mass. Yes, yes, Well, Marty, you're
also someone who builds these guns and building this level
of gun. There's a lot that goes into it. There's
a lot of stuff that's kind of behind the scenes
or inside that people maybe can't see. What goes into
(27:49):
building these guns. What are some of the things that
maybe you guys do differently.
Speaker 9 (27:54):
So we're actually and were still a small company I
mean we're just under thirty employees there. So the way
I look at it is every gun I build, I'm
building for that person. I'm not building it for, you know,
to go out on a rack at a store. It's
actually going for our customers. So it takes a lot
of pride, I believe. And you know, we only have
(28:17):
probably I think five builders, So we have two that
do pistols mainly and three that do rifle and so
everyone we're making it for that one person. So we
take a little bit of pride into what we do. So,
I mean we still do some hand polishing of barrels
and stuff like that, so everything looks good. We you know,
(28:41):
laser and grave stuff. So when we're putting it together,
we're putting it together not only for that person, but
we're putting it together for us because we're standing behind it.
We know who makes that gun. So every gun gets
sent out gets a card who built it. That way,
we know exactly everything about that.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
There's a lot of there's a lot of pride that
goes into that.
Speaker 8 (29:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, tell me about the people that work there, because
it seems like that's kind of a specialized piece of
knowledge to know how to build these guns that are
not just like you said, they're not just squirting out
a gun, you know, once a minute or something like that.
These are there's a little bit more care that goes
into these.
Speaker 9 (29:19):
Yeah. And the nice thing about like every gun that
we do build the person that's building them. We're literally
putting the bolt together ourselves. We're putting the trigger guard
together ourselves. We'll put grabbing the barrel, we're posishing the barrel,
assembling everything ourselves. So we have a really good team
out there that puts them together. Courtney Snyder, Dan Overmoll,
Tim Cook, and Chad Huffman, I mean we have a
(29:41):
great team. We work together, so I mean positive attitudes
and I sometimes we bounce things off each other too.
About what we could do better and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
We'll be right back with more gun Talk.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
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Yeah, we talk about that too.
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Speaker 10 (31:28):
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Speaker 2 (32:37):
Hey, welcome back to gun talk you guys brought some
sent some interesting guns to this event for Plinka Palooza.
I was telling you they were shooting a variety of them.
Can you talk about you know, we kind of have
the little bitty car being guy, we have the big
seventeen mars. Talk about those guns specifically.
Speaker 9 (32:57):
So we brought Do you want to talk about the pistols? Yeah,
everything we brought. We brought a four and a half Mamba,
which are four and a half inch barrel with a
compensator on it. The nice thing about it has pick
rail on it, so it has iron sights on it,
but you can always add a red dot onto that.
So we have our lightweight pistol bolt in there now
which works really good with the suppressors and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Okay, so that's kind of tuned for running with expressor yep.
Speaker 9 (33:23):
Okay, yep, but it will run otherwise any other just
normal way of planking or competition or anything like that. So,
like all the internal parts are we use the Mark
four lower which is rubs lower, but we take all
the parts of it and we have all of our
d M parts and all that stuff put in it,
plus our bolt. The uppers are so we kind of
(33:45):
unmask it all and we put all the.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Goods, put your stuff in and customize it. Now, what
about this this little car being.
Speaker 9 (33:54):
Yeah, so we have an envy, which is it's means
it's has a pistol brace and stuff like that on
it's considered a pistol.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Because the barrel, Yeah it's a pistol.
Speaker 9 (34:05):
Yeah, brace with the brace because of the length of
the barrel and stuff like that. The one I have
here today will be a nine inch barrel, but we
do offer a six inch barrel on.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
That that that's the one laying on the table that
caught my eye because it just seems so handy because
is the brace. It's a foldable brace as well. Yeah,
so I mean that becomes a very compact package. It
folds down perfect in a backpack or something like that.
Speaker 9 (34:28):
If you're going out somewhere and semi auto, semi auto,
what kind of magaz does it use? River ten or
you know, just the River ten twenty two magazines?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Okay, so millions of them out there, and you get
a flat, a flush one or a real long.
Speaker 9 (34:43):
Yeah, you can get the b X twenty five, you know,
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, perfect, very good yeah, and then you're also doing
seventeen HMR guns.
Speaker 9 (34:52):
Right, yeah, seventeen h MAR and twenty two mag and
I believe we brought here is I fluted? Twenty two
mag is the one we brought?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
How was doing the twenty two mag or seventeen HMAR?
How much different is that? And then dealing with twenty
two is it trickier a little bit?
Speaker 5 (35:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (35:09):
Because with the twenty two magnue seventeen h AMAR if
you know, like in the past, River has some issues
with that, Tom found a way around that to make
them reliable and stuff like that. With the bolt, we
have to do a little bit something different with We
have a different hammer for that compared to our ten
twenty two hammer okay and spring, So we have a
(35:30):
few different setups, but otherwise it's pretty much put together
as same as our twenty two's. We just have different
components inside.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
If somebody's looking at Okay, I want to get one
of these, I'm not sure if I want a twenty
two or twenty two mag or seventeen HMR. If they
come to you and say, Marty.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You know, like, how do you choose?
Speaker 9 (35:53):
I look, I'm kind of a twenty two mag guy. Okay,
so I like the twenty two. I don't know, it's
like my first gun that time built me. Okay when
when when I started working there, So I've always liked it.
It's it's gonna knock down what I'm shooting, U Yeah,
raccoon stuff like that, well, especially if it's.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
In a bigger, heavier gun like one of the ones
we have here. I mean that's that sucker doesn't move
at all, right, when you're shooting on a bench. It's
just it's a tack driver.
Speaker 9 (36:20):
Right, Yeah. And the seventeen is nice. I mean that
that bullet's fast. It's just in my opinion, if you
got some wind out there at one hundred and fifty,
it's gonna sure, it's gonna yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I mean the difference in weight of bullet makes a
difference at that point, right, Yes, yeah, I will say also,
you know you don't think of and I wouldn't say
it's any rim fire is necessarily loud, but a twenty
two mag or seventeen it's got a crack to it.
Yes that you go, wow, wait a minute, oh, this
(36:53):
is a rim fire, but it's it's it's moving, right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 9 (36:58):
I mean you can go out and shoot your you know,
twenty two, but you grab that twenty two magrat the
seventeen h mark, there is a difference.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah you notice it? Yes, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, that's fun.
I mean, Marty Welson, you guys been up to over
there local.
Speaker 9 (37:12):
We've got a few things, you know, like the Envy
I was talking about. We're actually looking at doing our
own conversion of the takedown model on that. So we're
going to use that platform to do a takedown model,
make it even smaller, right yeah, yeah, yeah, be able
to take it down and everything like that, something with
the SBR kind of style stuff like that. So yeah,
(37:33):
and like I said, I mentioned our lightweight Bolt that
we the new lightweight Bolt we came out for our
pistols and trying to take off anything else.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
But yeah, always always new things in the works, right yeah.
Speaker 9 (37:46):
Yeah, we always got something in the workst We do
have a new chassis coming out also that's going to
be with included with that Envy.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Okay, so tell me about that you guys are doing.
Speaker 9 (37:56):
Yeah, yeah, we're we're actually doing it right in house.
We kind of outsource that stuff, but we're doing this
one right in house. We have them all machined.
Speaker 7 (38:06):
Ready to go.
Speaker 9 (38:07):
They got sent off to fizing, so when we get back,
hopefully they're they're back.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
And the chassis thing is hot these days. I mean,
everybody's wanting a chassis gun and they look cool. I mean,
and they're probably you're fun to shoot. Marty. Thanks for
being on with us.
Speaker 9 (38:24):
Thank you appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Vulcourts and firearms, if you haven't heard of them, now
you have. This is kind of not your standard twenty two.
I mean, we think of a twenty two as all,
you know, a little you know, cheapy you buy in
some big box store. But if you want to step
up to something that looks different and shoots great, bull
courts and firearms a great one to look at, small
companies right there in the Midwest. Yeah, vulcourts and I
(38:48):
mean a lot of times we think of twenty two's
as budget friendly rifles and pistols. They don't have to
break the bank. But sometimes you want to step up
and get something really nice. We'll be right back. Hey,
(39:08):
welcome back to gun Talk. I'm your guest. It's Ryan Gresha.
I'm filling in for Tom this week. Thanks for hanging
around with us. You've made it to hour three, or
perhaps you're just driving on your car and you're thinking,
what the heck is this? This is the station where
I usually listen to someone like good at radio, like
Dave Ramsey, But you've got gun talk, so you might
as well stick around because we're talking about guns. We've
been doing it for thirty one years on the air.
(39:29):
And just to give you like a little background, like
our approach with this stuff is we love all things guns,
very broad in it. We talk about gun rights, we
talk about what I call the gun nerds side of this,
comparing ballistics and comparing rifles. But then we also talk
about the self defense and that's the reality for a
lot of people. That's why they buy a gun, that's
(39:51):
where they start. Some of you listen to this, you
started because you started as a kid. I mean your
dad hunted or shotguns, your uncle, your grandpa, whoever introduced
you to it, and along those lines. If you're someone
who's into this, there are a lot of people out
there who are not opposed to guns, but they just
don't know anything about it at all. And they don't
(40:14):
maybe they didn't grow up in a household where dad
was a gun guy, and so you could be that safe,
responsible friend who invites people to the range, who shows
them how to do it, do it the right way,
perhaps start with a twenty two and get them comfortable
with it and show them how fun it is, because
you know, if you don't have that person to hold
(40:35):
your hand and show you the way, it's really easy
to not take that step. It's really easy to not
buy that gun or get a little training and get proficient.
So just encourage you. If you're listening to this and
you're the gun enthusiast and your crowd at your work, whatever,
do those things invite people to do it. You know,
we talk about trends and things we're seeing these days.
(40:57):
What are the trends that we keep seeing is double
stack Team Eleven's and nineteen eleven pistol, the forty five auto,
John Browning's John Browning's creation. They're fantastic. And then the
double stacks are really not new. I mean, Pair of
Ordinance brought that out gosh, maybe twenty or thirty years ago,
but they've just become hot again in the last several years.
(41:18):
And it's an interesting trend because I think it's a
trend that's a bigger one for the world of guns,
which is guns as a fun hobby. We talk about
it where it's all serious, what is this gun for?
What is it good for? Is it good for carry?
Is it good for hunting? Is it going to stop
a bear?
Speaker 9 (41:35):
Well?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
That's great, that's the serious side of guns. But there
is a trend, especially I think in the younger crowd,
you know, the under forty under thirty crowd, where guns
as a fun hobby and it's not about whether this
is going to be the right thing for Carrie or
this is going to be it's just about going to
the range shooting things that are fun to shoot. And
(41:58):
a double stack nine to eleven definitely fills that need.
I mean, because they are a joy to shoot. They're heavy,
they have a good trigger, they don't have a lot
of recoil, they hold plenty of ambo. You can trick
them out, and let's be honest, you can kind of
look cool on the gram on social media because with
the right gun, maybe with a muzzle break or a
comp or something, they don't have a lot much muzzle flips,
(42:21):
so they look pretty cool. One of the things that
I don't know, and I would it's an interesting debate
to think about, is people carrying the double stack nineteen eleven,
Because I know people do it. There's got to be somebody.
But man, if you think about an all metal gun
that's a five inch barrel that and I know they
have smaller ones. Toccato has smaller ones, springtiar d memory
(42:44):
has smaller ones, SDS has smaller ones. But it's a
lot of weight. You know, you're talking about thirteen to
twenty rounds of nine in the gun. That adds a
lot of weight to it as well. So is it
something you would really carry? If it is, I would
say it's something you've got to train with, You've got
to really practice with. You're talking about a gun with
a thumb safety. You're talking about a gun that has
a shorter trigger press. That's okay as long as you
(43:07):
are proficient and trained with that gun. But it's just
something to consider because obviously, the quote unquote traditional carry guns,
the striker fire polymer stuff, that's what they're made for.
They're pretty lightweight. A lot of them are smaller for carry,
and they're easy to shoot, but it's fun. There might
be ones that you want to pick up Double Stack
nineteen eleven, so if you don't have one, take a
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
All right, welcome back to gun Talk. I'm your guest host,
Ryan Gresham filling in for Thomas. Week is on the
road and we are doing the show from gun Talk headquarters,
actually so down here in South Louisiana at Range Ready Studios.
Range Ready Studios is the part of this place that
puts on events. We put on classes that are open
(00:35):
to the public. Classes. Yep, you can come here. You
can train with us. You can learn to shoot pistols
and rifles and a bunch of other stuff and get
real proficient with it with our buddy Chris Serina, who
runs the training program. But we also put on media events.
We put on product launches. Obviously, you guys know, we
work with so many different companies within the world of guns,
(00:57):
and we have a bunch of them here for an
event this week. It's called plink Up Palooza, which really
centers around rim fires. So twenty two's and even seventeen
hm rs and some you know some other stuff. Twenty
two mags. Rim fires is where, for a lot of
us where you start your shooting journey. You learn to
shoot on those rim fires because they're low recoil, they're accurate,
(01:20):
they're fun to shoot, they're low noise. And I think
for a lot of us, is we come back, we
circle back to those rim fires because they're just there's
kind of it's where we started. Since JJ, I'm gonna
bring you in because we've got the man, the myth,
the legend, and you guys listening may not realize, but
you're you're talking to a legend right now, or listen
(01:42):
to a legend. JJ. He is communications with Federal Premium YEP,
which you know. Look, let's be honest. We always say,
if you work for an AMMO company in the in
the world of guns, you're everybody's buddy because you've got
the sauce man you make what makes this stuff happen.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yes, so I am the communications manager of the PR manager.
So I work with all the media folks, editors, writers, influencers,
TV hosts.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And yeah, yeah, whatever the heck we are these days YouTubers. Yes,
Federal Premium one of the bigger AMO companies out there. Yes,
you guys really do it all. I mean you do shotshell,
you do center fire, you do pistol, you do rifle,
and you do a ton of rim fire.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yes, So Federal Ammunition, that's that's our name as far
as our website goes it, it's Federal Premium. But you know,
the premium category of ammunition actually started in the late seventies,
but we've always just been federal, Federal cartridge, sure, and
then Federal ammunition. So we just call ourselves federal, you know. Okay,
(02:52):
But I think one of the biggest things that you
were hitting on with rim fire is just and why
I think rimfires is so popular and also you know,
deserves its own event like plankt Palooza would be just
how many platforms it's on. I sat in the classroom
this morning, you know, and people were bringing out ar
fifteen platforms, pistol platforms. You know, in the past, you
(03:16):
would have rim fire was always either a bolt gun
or you know, mostly a rifle. That's why twenty two
long rifle. But now in the last well ten fifteen years,
how many platforms, how many different platforms there are? Sure
that you can shoot it from and also you can buy,
like for Smith and Wesson, you can buy a handgun
(03:38):
that's in in twenty two long rifle and then a
handgun that's in nine millimeters the same handgun. It's this
chamber of different so you can train, you know, can
train room fire and then and then carry with center fire.
So that's why I think rimfire is so is so popular.
Just how many more platforms there were than when it
first started, one hundred.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Sure in Ammo for really, for rim fire, Ammo is
the heart of this stuff because the variety is wild,
and I think that it's fair to say that you
could do a lot more things with this. Amma. You've
got super Sonic, you've got sub Sonic, you've got shorts,
(04:19):
you've got you know, ratshot, I guess is one little
weird category. But there's something in the performance of rim fire,
and you have to find what your gun likes. Is
that fair to say?
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Ah?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yes, definitely if you look at rim fire as a whole,
That's what's so cool about rimfire is that, well, Ammo,
in general, there's a cartridge, but then there's all the
components of the cartridge. Sure, that's how the cartridge is loaded,
so the different velocities the cartridge is loaded to the
different bullets. You know, you can have flatnose bullets, you
(04:53):
can have hallow point bullets, you can have segmenting hallow
point bullets, you can have coated bullets, and then different
grain weights. With all that, they're all intended for different purposes.
And ammunition as a whole is like that, especially center
fire and handgun, but rim fire, you really see all
those various differences.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Changing them can change what you're really doing with.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
It, right, absolutely, absolutely, and so Federal Ammunition was we
just celebrated, well not just but we celebrated our one
hundredth anniversary four years ago, so we're one hundred and
four now. And rim fire came on right away, like
we started with shotshell and then in nineteen twenty two.
(05:37):
Rimfire came in nineteen twenty three, so we have been
producing it for over one hundred years. And a lot
of those same loads, a lot of the loads like
you referred to the cbs or the shorts, you know,
the longs and then the long rifle, you know, those different cartridges,
those were all there and started in nineteen twenty three
(05:59):
and we are low. Some of the same ones still
for one hundred years, so I mean we still we
still have all those a variety. But but for federal
you really do have you know, your your your base loads,
you're you're champion seven forty five loads in that kind
of thing. If you really want to go into the
(06:19):
huge variety of rim fire and the history of rim fire,
then that CCI is the rim Fire King. Sure you know,
we can talk CCI in a different episode if you want.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. CCI kind of a sister company, yeah,
sister companies. Yes, yeah, I mean you guys are definitely
have the knowledge and the history with rim fire. After
the break, I want to talk about there's a lot
of new things in the way in talking about projectiles
being loaded in rim fires that kind of changes the
(06:51):
way we think about what a rim fire can do.
We're going to talk about that right after this.
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Speaker 2 (08:01):
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Speaker 2 (09:44):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. I'm your guest host,
Ryan Gresha. I'm filling in for Tom this week, and
we are at an event called Plinkapalooza and we're talking
with a bunch of different companies about rim fires. And
my guest right now is JJ re Reich from Federal JJ.
We were talking before the break about, you know, the
in the old days, even I'm not that old, I guess,
(10:05):
but just going back a couple decades, when you think
about shooting twenty two shoot shooting rim fires, you know,
you go, I'll go grab a brick and go out
there and load it up and shoot it. And I mean, honestly,
you probably didn't think a whole lot about the bullet.
It was like, Okay, we're gonna go shoot soup cans,
or we're gonna go maybe do some hunting, some squirrel hunting
(10:28):
or whatever. But it was kind of like, yeah, I
mean whatever, it's supersonic or hypersonic or whatever the marketing said.
But it was kind of just like loaded up and
go for it. But I feel in the last i
don't know, five or plus years, there's stuff that I'm like, okay,
wait a minute, you guys are loading stuff that's self
defense loads, hunting loads. There's a lot of new changes.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yes, so the self defense, which at this event we're
gonna be shooting ballistic gel blocks. That's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, that's gonna be amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
They can't we see it. Yeah, So there are some
people who want to carry twenty two long rifle or
a twenty two mag and it's either because of strength
limitations in their hands, or you know, wanting something that's
more comfortable to shoot things like that. So we wanted
(11:17):
to give options for that. So our self defense option
is what's called punch. And so the twenty two bullet
on that would be a solid bullet. It's a nickel plated,
solid bullet. It's not going to expand much, but it's
going to get your penetration. So yeah, so you want
for any self defense load, you want something that opens
(11:38):
up or mushroom so to speak, that actually has that
expansion to create a larger wound channel. And then you
also want depth to make sure you get into far
enough into the vitals. You are limited with room fire
obviously with size, sure, so you can have there's two
(12:00):
schools of thought there. You either want the expansion or
you want the penetration depth. So the Federal punch that
is a hard bullet, nickel plated, that's going to give
you the penetration. If you want something more of an expansion,
then you want to go to federal sister company or
affiliate company CCI and they have something called uppercut and
(12:21):
that that's a too long rifle that will do the
expansion on that.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, different bullets, different designs, exactly different and different, two
different schools of thought.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Sure, for what you want a defensive.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Is there any idea of what punch does into gelatin?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Typically, Yeah, it's just going to punch it. It's just
going to get it's just going to give you the
the the penetration depth.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Okay, Okay, So I mean, and people will hear this
if they're into this, if you carry, like, oh my gosh,
twenty two is for carrying. But I mean, the fact
of the matter is it's people say it all the time,
but it is true. Better to have a gun than
not have a gun when you need something, when something
bad is happening. And there are a lot of very
(13:06):
small twenty twos that might be a little pocket gun
that's kind of a maybe it's not your normal, everyday,
every day carry situation, but it's an option. And like
you said, there are people who they're more comfortable with that.
I'd rather you carry that with good amo like punch
than carry nothing. You know, you're thinking about your loved ones,
your your your mom, or your or your wife or
(13:28):
whatever that might be. Like, hey, listen, this is something
they are comfortable shooting. They can put all the shots
on target. Okay, that's great.
Speaker 8 (13:38):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
If it doesn't have the target, it's not going to
matter anyway.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 7 (13:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
So our job isn't to help people make that decision.
Our job is to give them the options and the
products that would work for them in the situation that
they decide to do. So, you know, you'd want a
personal defense bullet for that application. If you're varmin hunting
with a twenty two l R, then you want a
varnment bullet. Now, a varnment bullet is going to be
something that really just kind of blows up. You know,
(14:04):
they say explosive performance. What that means is that bullet
is constructed as soon as it hits it is to
just break apart. Right, So if you are you know,
varmint is prairie dog so to speak, or anything that
you know.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And that's really designed to reduce ricochet, right, Well, it's well,
actually it's it's more designed to to have that deadly
explosion on that.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
See on a small avarm, something that you're not going
to eat right, something that you just want to die quickly.
And you know if you if you're trying to squirrel
hunt then and you want the meat, then you're you're
going to be using more of a small game a
bullet that's going to have the traditional exension.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I told you you got to you got to pick
the right ambo for the job. Yes, so if.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
You so, if you're squirrel hunting and you picked like
a full metal jacket bullet or a target bullet, it's
not it'll hit the squirrel and go right the zip
right through the squirrel, and it's not going to have
it's not going to release any of its ballistic potential.
It's not going to release.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Chances that you might not harvest that game. You might
lose it.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Right, you want something that's going to you know, give
that shock or you know give that Yeah, so it
expands a little bit and kills the squirrel right away,
just zip through it and squirrel runs away and guns
with a hole. You know, find it right, So you
don't want to shoot target ammunition at something that you
want to you know that you're hunting and you want
(15:34):
to eat. You don't want to shoot varm and ammunition
at that because then the whole thing is going to
be kind of basically exploded explosion.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Well, did you there's a trend right now in super
accurate and even sort of long range rim fire, Yes,
long range twenty two?
Speaker 8 (15:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Are you guys doing some loads for that type of stuff?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, so we you know, we do have some competition
ammunition that we for pistol, because pistol is a big
thing for competition. The longer range rifle type of stuff
we always say are green Tag. So, uh, Standard velocity
is a rim fire around that has been very popular
(16:17):
with people who you know, shoot for accuracy, and it's
the standard velocity. I think it's I feel stupid for
not knowing off the top of my head, but I
think it's twelve hundred twelve Okay, your standard velocity. So
that's the muzzle velocity.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
And then green tag.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
The cool thing about green Tag and I'm talking CCI.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
By the way.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Okay, so with green Tag, basically standard velocity came out
and then they do a bunch of when you're loading
it to test to see where it is in that
velocity spec because you have to hit a certain velocity
spec to be Sammy speck to be sure, the right sure,
the right cartridge to be it's out. But anyway, or
(17:01):
you have your own internal velocity spec specs that you
want to meet when you're creating the consistency of the
am what you want.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, you have to have consistency, especially when you're talking
about target shooting in accuracy. I mean because especially in
the accuracy that's expected from a competitor. Changes in velocity,
you know, a big deviation can can make the difference.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Absolutely, absolutely, So Santa velocity is always great. It's got
a really nice uh range of the specifications that it
can hit. But green tags are a lot smaller. So
the specification of hitting green tags is a lot smaller.
And really when they're loading centatard velocity and they're and
they're testing lots and a lot of ammunition is getting
(17:48):
into that smaller range of of of of specifications. Then
they were the olden days. They just took this green
sticker and slapped it on that and then they would
send it out and so then you'd have your standard
velocity and then you'd have your standard velocity with the
green sticker and so then they just started calling a
green green sticker a green tag, and that's that's how
(18:09):
green tag came about. But that would be CCI's best
ammunition for for you know, shooting longer range.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
What about just are there any tips or or or
maybe perhaps product lines when you're talking about accuracy, because
I think people think twenty two is okay, we're plinking,
we're shooting cans or whatever, But like, what if the
accuracy expectations would you really get down to an accurate
gun in a in a a good rest. I mean,
(18:38):
what could somebody expect to shoot and maybe what would
be some good options for them?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I mean everyone's chasing that you know one minute, you
know one m o A or that one inch group,
Like that's even with really non fire too. But rin
fiber has always been kind of like a fifty yard
type of thing, but now one hundred yards not not uncommon,
and even longer it's not uncommon. You know, we talked
(19:05):
about your standard ammunition, federal ammunition, and you talked about
the premium ammunition, so premium ammunition. A difference between standard
and premium is more premium components. So maybe a nickel
plated case you know, a better copper plated bullet, you know,
(19:26):
better more consistent powders. You know, more of the premium
components goes into it goes into the premium line of ammunition.
It's the same with center fires, the same with with
with handgun, and it's the same with rim fire. So
if you are trying to get more accuracy or more consistency,
then you always want to spend a little bit more
to get the more premium component ammunition.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I mean, you think about it. I mean one of
the biggest sports in the Olympics is shooting, and I
mean rim fires. That's something that we think about what's
possible with sure, Yeah, it could be incredibly accurate. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So and Federal's history did help with all of that
twenty two long rifle in the Olympics really, yes, in
the nineties and eighties and nineties, I believe, and that's
how gold medal came about.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So I wanted you to bring that up because that's
one that when we're siting in and we're getting all
this stuff ready. Chris Sarno, who you know, I end
up tasking him with a lot of this. Yes, he says, well,
let me see if this gun really shoots and he
loads that in the gun.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yes, yes, so you know, we we that's the whole
eighties nineties with the in the Olympic gold medals that
we helped to win and that kind of thing. That
really helped get out room fire and improved and upgraded,
and it helped with that premium you know, branding for that.
(20:55):
But again this is for different components, different testing procedures,
different accuracy specifications with the engineering team all that. So
it's really cool to be part of that history too.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
It's amazing JJ. So what's your first memory of shooting
a rim fire?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
First memory of shooting a rim fire? Well, I mean
for me, it's like that's what we all passed our
hunter safety test with. Yeah, and we're true twelve, you know,
so I know, I definitely, I guess. I mean getting
my hunter Safety certificate when I was twelve was a
(21:33):
huge deal for me. I remember having to go into
the classrooms.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
It's like that big first certification. Yeah, you're you know,
I think my dad even dropped me off by myself,
and it's you're in this room full of some kids
and some adults and you've got this this grown up
teacher and you're thinking, I got to pay attention because one,
you know, you want to pass it because you want
to be able to go hunting or whatever. Right, But
it's just it's a whole lot of fun. JJ, thanks
(22:00):
for being with us. Is fun, I mean Plinka Palooza.
We're reinvigorating the fun of rim fires at this event
and we'll be back with more gun Talk more rim
fire talk right after this. Hey, welcome back to gun Talk.
(22:24):
I'm your guest host, Ryan Gresh. I'm filling in for
Tom this week. He is on the road, but kind
of so are we. We're actually recording this show at
the gun Talk headquarters and we're putting on an event
called Plinka Paloosa, all centered around rim fire. So that's
kind of the subject of the day. And we'll be
posting some of these videos online, so make sure you
(22:45):
follow gun Talk on YouTube, Facebook, x Instagram. We're actually
filming this episode of gun Talk and so we'll be
posting some of these interviews and clips. You guys can
go check that out. But they can't keep us down, guys.
You just keep subscribing, keep following, keep ringing that bell.
One of the things that that the YouTubers say these days,
(23:06):
you know, do that and then you'll be able to
stay in touch with us. But our guest up on
the show right now, Marty vander Heyden, did I say
it sort of right?
Speaker 8 (23:15):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
From Voltcourts and Firearms and Volcourts and is for people
who love really nice rim fires. They know you guys
right right yep. But you know it's maybe it's like
it's a smaller company, not maybe the names of like
a Smith and Wesson or some of those other of
those guys out there, but you've kind of become this
(23:38):
name in the gun culture when they say, okay, now
I'm ready to move up to something real special, you're
one of the guys that they think of. So talk
about where did Vulcourtson start and where is it now?
Speaker 9 (23:50):
So it started back in like nineteen seventy four. We've
been in business about fifty two years. Tom Volcourson started
at what he started out as just bluing and tinkering
with guns and stocks and upgrading some things on his
friend's stuff, and then he got into actually, believe it
or not, revolvers and he was doing a lot of
(24:13):
revolvers and if like I said, if you ever see
one or find one, I would grab.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
It of courts and revolver.
Speaker 9 (24:19):
Yes, and uh great, I mean it was they're prestige.
I mean they're they're awesome. Uh So when he got
into that, but then he started messing around with twenty
two's out of just one of his buddies that he
had one and just wasn't working. So he started working
on it.
Speaker 7 (24:35):
He got it.
Speaker 9 (24:36):
Going and they were like, next thing, you know, another
buddy would drop one off, another buddy would drop one off,
and that's how it just started kind of going. And uh,
it's kind of a funny story I know. Scott tells
me all the time about Tom went over to Brown Els,
which is close by us. It's like two and a
half hours from you.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
You guys are in Isoland, Yepka.
Speaker 9 (24:56):
And he told I believe it was Frank Brown.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Owl or yeah, probably Frank.
Speaker 9 (25:03):
Yeah it was either Frank or even Frank's dad or
something back then, and said, this is what I'm going
to do, and this is my barrel I want to
go with. And they're like, there's no way you're going
to be able to sell that.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
For that price.
Speaker 9 (25:14):
He's like, well, we're going to try and we've come
along the ways then, So.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
What was the what was the first barrel for?
Speaker 9 (25:23):
It was just for a ruger, just a standard ten
to twenty two rigger replacement barrel.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, that's what I thought. Yep, So make it started
out making barrels for twenty twos. What was it about
twenty twos? Because you guys are known as this twenty
two rifles and pistols. You guys make these fancy twenty twos.
Why twenty two's.
Speaker 9 (25:42):
Because nobody at that point, nobody really back then, nobody
really dealt with anything with the twenty twos. You just
want to I think it was Sears or Montgomery Wards
or right coast to coast and just picked one up
and you know, on the farm or something like that.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
But it was just a sledgehammer.
Speaker 7 (25:59):
You didn't know.
Speaker 9 (26:00):
Nobody. Yeah, nobody got into those much. And so Tom
was like, well, if nobody's involved in it, we should
get involved in it.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So yeah, find the white space. I like it. So,
you know, fast forward. I mean, you guys over the
years have made a lot of things. What do you
what are you kind of known for these days?
Speaker 9 (26:18):
We're still known for like our accuracy, precision, everything like that. Lightweight.
We were like one of some of the first companies
ever to come out with like a corveron fiber barrel
to lighten everything up. So we're more of like on
target precision accuracy, but we do we have a lot
of people that shoot competition with all of our rifle
rifles and pistols.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Is it more on that the accuracy side or is
it more on the speed side? There is a little bit.
Speaker 9 (26:44):
Majority was all on accuracy and then the speed came
because of the lightweight stuff that we did. We different uppers,
different barrels, lightweight barrels. We have good triggers, polls and accuracy,
you know, stuff like that which helps with accuracy. You know,
two pound, two quarter pound trigger pole, Chris trigger pole.
So I mean that helps with everything with acuracy and speed.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
What type of accuracy should someone expect out of their
twenty two rifle?
Speaker 9 (27:11):
It'd be like subma really something like that yep.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Which was in the past was kind of like unheard of, right, right,
A lot of it back in the past was you know,
two and a half three minute of squirrel sort of yes, yeah,
if he's a big.
Speaker 9 (27:26):
Squirrel, if he's a big squirrel, aim for the.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Body, yeah, center of mass. Yes, yes, Well, Marty, you're
also someone who builds these guns and building this level
of gun. There's a lot that goes into it. There's
a lot of stuff that's kind of behind the scenes
or inside that people maybe can't see. What goes into
(27:49):
building these guns. What are some of the things that
maybe you guys do differently.
Speaker 9 (27:54):
So we're actually and were still a small company I
mean we're just under thirty employees there. So the way
I look at it is every gun I build, I'm
building for that person. I'm not building it for, you know,
to go out on a rack at a store. It's
actually going for our customers. So it takes a lot
of pride, I believe. And you know, we only have
(28:17):
probably I think five builders, So we have two that
do pistols mainly and three that do rifle and so
everyone we're making it for that one person. So we
take a little bit of pride into what we do. So,
I mean we still do some hand polishing of barrels
and stuff like that, so everything looks good. We you know,
(28:41):
laser and grave stuff. So when we're putting it together,
we're putting it together not only for that person, but
we're putting it together for us because we're standing behind it.
We know who makes that gun. So every gun gets
sent out gets a card who built it. That way,
we know exactly everything about that.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
There's a lot of there's a lot of pride that
goes into that.
Speaker 8 (29:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, tell me about the people that work there, because
it seems like that's kind of a specialized piece of
knowledge to know how to build these guns that are
not just like you said, they're not just squirting out
a gun, you know, once a minute or something like that.
These are there's a little bit more care that goes
into these.
Speaker 9 (29:19):
Yeah. And the nice thing about like every gun that
we do build the person that's building them. We're literally
putting the bolt together ourselves. We're putting the trigger guard
together ourselves. We'll put grabbing the barrel, we're posishing the barrel,
assembling everything ourselves. So we have a really good team
out there that puts them together. Courtney Snyder, Dan Overmoll,
Tim Cook, and Chad Huffman, I mean we have a
(29:41):
great team. We work together, so I mean positive attitudes
and I sometimes we bounce things off each other too.
About what we could do better and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
We'll be right back with more gun Talk.
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Speaker 8 (30:31):
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Yeah, we talk about that too.
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Speaker 10 (31:28):
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(31:49):
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Speaker 2 (32:37):
Hey, welcome back to gun talk you guys brought some
sent some interesting guns to this event for Plinka Palooza.
I was telling you they were shooting a variety of them.
Can you talk about you know, we kind of have
the little bitty car being guy, we have the big
seventeen mars. Talk about those guns specifically.
Speaker 9 (32:57):
So we brought Do you want to talk about the pistols? Yeah,
everything we brought. We brought a four and a half Mamba,
which are four and a half inch barrel with a
compensator on it. The nice thing about it has pick
rail on it, so it has iron sights on it,
but you can always add a red dot onto that.
So we have our lightweight pistol bolt in there now
which works really good with the suppressors and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Okay, so that's kind of tuned for running with expressor yep.
Speaker 9 (33:23):
Okay, yep, but it will run otherwise any other just
normal way of planking or competition or anything like that. So,
like all the internal parts are we use the Mark
four lower which is rubs lower, but we take all
the parts of it and we have all of our
d M parts and all that stuff put in it,
plus our bolt. The uppers are so we kind of
(33:45):
unmask it all and we put all the.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Goods, put your stuff in and customize it. Now, what
about this this little car being.
Speaker 9 (33:54):
Yeah, so we have an envy, which is it's means
it's has a pistol brace and stuff like that on
it's considered a pistol.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Because the barrel, Yeah it's a pistol.
Speaker 9 (34:05):
Yeah, brace with the brace because of the length of
the barrel and stuff like that. The one I have
here today will be a nine inch barrel, but we
do offer a six inch barrel on.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
That that that's the one laying on the table that
caught my eye because it just seems so handy because
is the brace. It's a foldable brace as well. Yeah,
so I mean that becomes a very compact package. It
folds down perfect in a backpack or something like that.
Speaker 9 (34:28):
If you're going out somewhere and semi auto, semi auto,
what kind of magaz does it use? River ten or
you know, just the River ten twenty two magazines?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Okay, so millions of them out there, and you get
a flat, a flush one or a real long.
Speaker 9 (34:43):
Yeah, you can get the b X twenty five, you know,
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, perfect, very good yeah, and then you're also doing
seventeen HMR guns.
Speaker 9 (34:52):
Right, yeah, seventeen h MAR and twenty two mag and
I believe we brought here is I fluted? Twenty two
mag is the one we brought?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
How was doing the twenty two mag or seventeen HMAR?
How much different is that? And then dealing with twenty
two is it trickier a little bit?
Speaker 5 (35:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (35:09):
Because with the twenty two magnue seventeen h AMAR if
you know, like in the past, River has some issues
with that, Tom found a way around that to make
them reliable and stuff like that. With the bolt, we
have to do a little bit something different with We
have a different hammer for that compared to our ten
twenty two hammer okay and spring, So we have a
(35:30):
few different setups, but otherwise it's pretty much put together
as same as our twenty two's. We just have different
components inside.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
If somebody's looking at Okay, I want to get one
of these, I'm not sure if I want a twenty
two or twenty two mag or seventeen HMR. If they
come to you and say, Marty.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You know, like, how do you choose?
Speaker 9 (35:53):
I look, I'm kind of a twenty two mag guy. Okay,
so I like the twenty two. I don't know, it's
like my first gun that time built me. Okay when
when when I started working there, So I've always liked it.
It's it's gonna knock down what I'm shooting, U Yeah,
raccoon stuff like that, well, especially if it's.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
In a bigger, heavier gun like one of the ones
we have here. I mean that's that sucker doesn't move
at all, right, when you're shooting on a bench. It's
just it's a tack driver.
Speaker 9 (36:20):
Right, Yeah. And the seventeen is nice. I mean that
that bullet's fast. It's just in my opinion, if you
got some wind out there at one hundred and fifty,
it's gonna sure, it's gonna yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I mean the difference in weight of bullet makes a
difference at that point, right, Yes, yeah, I will say also,
you know you don't think of and I wouldn't say
it's any rim fire is necessarily loud, but a twenty
two mag or seventeen it's got a crack to it.
Yes that you go, wow, wait a minute, oh, this
(36:53):
is a rim fire, but it's it's it's moving, right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 9 (36:58):
I mean you can go out and shoot your you know,
twenty two, but you grab that twenty two magrat the
seventeen h mark, there is a difference.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah you notice it? Yes, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, that's fun.
I mean, Marty Welson, you guys been up to over
there local.
Speaker 9 (37:12):
We've got a few things, you know, like the Envy
I was talking about. We're actually looking at doing our
own conversion of the takedown model on that. So we're
going to use that platform to do a takedown model,
make it even smaller, right yeah, yeah, yeah, be able
to take it down and everything like that, something with
the SBR kind of style stuff like that. So yeah,
(37:33):
and like I said, I mentioned our lightweight Bolt that
we the new lightweight Bolt we came out for our
pistols and trying to take off anything else.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
But yeah, always always new things in the works, right yeah.
Speaker 9 (37:46):
Yeah, we always got something in the workst We do
have a new chassis coming out also that's going to
be with included with that Envy.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Okay, so tell me about that you guys are doing.
Speaker 9 (37:56):
Yeah, yeah, we're we're actually doing it right in house.
We kind of outsource that stuff, but we're doing this
one right in house. We have them all machined.
Speaker 7 (38:06):
Ready to go.
Speaker 9 (38:07):
They got sent off to fizing, so when we get back,
hopefully they're they're back.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
And the chassis thing is hot these days. I mean,
everybody's wanting a chassis gun and they look cool. I mean,
and they're probably you're fun to shoot. Marty. Thanks for
being on with us.
Speaker 9 (38:24):
Thank you appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Vulcourts and firearms, if you haven't heard of them, now
you have. This is kind of not your standard twenty two.
I mean, we think of a twenty two as all,
you know, a little you know, cheapy you buy in
some big box store. But if you want to step
up to something that looks different and shoots great, bull
courts and firearms a great one to look at, small
companies right there in the Midwest. Yeah, vulcourts and I
(38:48):
mean a lot of times we think of twenty two's
as budget friendly rifles and pistols. They don't have to
break the bank. But sometimes you want to step up
and get something really nice. We'll be right back. Hey,
(39:08):
welcome back to gun Talk. I'm your guest. It's Ryan Gresha.
I'm filling in for Tom this week. Thanks for hanging
around with us. You've made it to hour three, or
perhaps you're just driving on your car and you're thinking,
what the heck is this? This is the station where
I usually listen to someone like good at radio, like
Dave Ramsey, But you've got gun talk, so you might
as well stick around because we're talking about guns. We've
been doing it for thirty one years on the air.
(39:29):
And just to give you like a little background, like
our approach with this stuff is we love all things guns,
very broad in it. We talk about gun rights, we
talk about what I call the gun nerds side of this,
comparing ballistics and comparing rifles. But then we also talk
about the self defense and that's the reality for a
lot of people. That's why they buy a gun, that's
(39:51):
where they start. Some of you listen to this, you
started because you started as a kid. I mean your
dad hunted or shotguns, your uncle, your grandpa, whoever introduced
you to it, and along those lines. If you're someone
who's into this, there are a lot of people out
there who are not opposed to guns, but they just
don't know anything about it at all. And they don't
(40:14):
maybe they didn't grow up in a household where dad
was a gun guy, and so you could be that safe,
responsible friend who invites people to the range, who shows
them how to do it, do it the right way,
perhaps start with a twenty two and get them comfortable
with it and show them how fun it is, because
you know, if you don't have that person to hold
(40:35):
your hand and show you the way, it's really easy
to not take that step. It's really easy to not
buy that gun or get a little training and get proficient.
So just encourage you. If you're listening to this and
you're the gun enthusiast and your crowd at your work, whatever,
do those things invite people to do it. You know,
we talk about trends and things we're seeing these days.
(40:57):
What are the trends that we keep seeing is double
stack Team Eleven's and nineteen eleven pistol, the forty five auto,
John Browning's John Browning's creation. They're fantastic. And then the
double stacks are really not new. I mean, Pair of
Ordinance brought that out gosh, maybe twenty or thirty years ago,
but they've just become hot again in the last several years.
(41:18):
And it's an interesting trend because I think it's a
trend that's a bigger one for the world of guns,
which is guns as a fun hobby. We talk about
it where it's all serious, what is this gun for?
What is it good for? Is it good for carry?
Is it good for hunting? Is it going to stop
a bear?
Speaker 9 (41:35):
Well?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
That's great, that's the serious side of guns. But there
is a trend, especially I think in the younger crowd,
you know, the under forty under thirty crowd, where guns
as a fun hobby and it's not about whether this
is going to be the right thing for Carrie or
this is going to be it's just about going to
the range shooting things that are fun to shoot. And
(41:58):
a double stack nine to eleven definitely fills that need.
I mean, because they are a joy to shoot. They're heavy,
they have a good trigger, they don't have a lot
of recoil, they hold plenty of ambo. You can trick
them out, and let's be honest, you can kind of
look cool on the gram on social media because with
the right gun, maybe with a muzzle break or a
comp or something, they don't have a lot much muzzle flips,
(42:21):
so they look pretty cool. One of the things that
I don't know, and I would it's an interesting debate
to think about, is people carrying the double stack nineteen eleven,
Because I know people do it. There's got to be somebody.
But man, if you think about an all metal gun
that's a five inch barrel that and I know they
have smaller ones. Toccato has smaller ones, springtiar d memory
(42:44):
has smaller ones, SDS has smaller ones. But it's a
lot of weight. You know, you're talking about thirteen to
twenty rounds of nine in the gun. That adds a
lot of weight to it as well. So is it
something you would really carry? If it is, I would
say it's something you've got to train with, You've got
to really practice with. You're talking about a gun with
a thumb safety. You're talking about a gun that has
a shorter trigger press. That's okay as long as you
(43:07):
are proficient and trained with that gun. But it's just
something to consider because obviously, the quote unquote traditional carry guns,
the striker fire polymer stuff, that's what they're made for.
They're pretty lightweight. A lot of them are smaller for carry,
and they're easy to shoot, but it's fun. There might
be ones that you want to pick up Double Stack
nineteen eleven, so if you don't have one, take a
look
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