In This Hour:
-- Jacob Grey is a new name in firearms, but it's using iexpertise gained in aerospace machining to build top-line double stack 1911 pistols.
-- No, it's not "reasonable" to require waiting periods or background checks.
-- AR15 rifles are great for hunting, but what caliber is best?
Gun Talk 03.02.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Jacob Grey is a new name in firearms, but it's using iexpertise gained in aerospace machining to build top-line double stack 1911 pistols.
-- No, it's not "reasonable" to require waiting periods or background checks.
-- AR15 rifles are great for hunting, but what caliber is best?
Gun Talk 03.02.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:11):
All right, we're back with you, Tom Grasham. Here, it's
gun Talk. Give me a call, pretty easy. Just give
me a call it Tom Talk Gun. That's the number
here of course. All right, And I told you before
Shot Show said this is gonna be the year on
the double Stack nineteen eleven. They've been coming on and
then all of a sudden boom, they're everywhere. And some
names that you know and some names you don't know.
(00:32):
And one of those that may be one of those
you don't know is the firm of Jacob Gray. Well,
who are these guys and what is this cool looking gun? Well,
let's talk to Jay Duncan from Jacob Gray. Jay, all right,
start off with is there actually a person named Jacob Gray.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
There is a person named Jacob Gray, so that is
our founder and CEO. His name is Jacob Gray Bracket.
And he thought that his middle name and his first
name sounded like a cool brand, and it certainly does.
So we've just been going with that. Now Jacob our
owner and founder. He's got a background in aerospace, so
(01:11):
he's had an aerospace business called Jacob Gray Precision Machining
for about twenty years now, where they focus on what
they call blue streak aerospace parts. It's fun business, but
not as much fun as the gun business for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
All Right, So how do you move from doing aerospace stuff?
What's the interest? Was he a shooter and why get
into making pistols? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So his father, So back up just a minute. Jacob
is a third generation machinist. You grew up in a
machine shop, ran a machine shop, and then about twenty
years ago branched out on his own to start his
own machine shop. Throughout that time, even when he was
a kid, his dad was a big nineteen eleven officionado.
(01:54):
And Jake has had his FFL for over twenty years
and was building, you know, five to ten nineteen elevens
a year, just kind of as a passion project and
just had a lot of fun with it.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, I mean, and I know you make ars as well,
but I really want to talk about the double stack
ninety elevens because that's the thing everybody wants to talk about.
There's a real interest in double stack nineteen elevens Now,
I think you're out of this kind of pivot point.
The question is, you know, what is it about the
nineteen eleven double stack that has people interested? And also
why higher end because I mean your pistols are in
(02:31):
the twenty five hundred to thirty five hundred dollars range.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Well, yeah, Toms, you and I spoke before.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I've been in this industry a long time and I
hired on with Jake about two years ago, and he
was only doing AR fifteen's at that point, and that's
a tough road to hoe right now. Supersaturated, there's a
you've got to do a lot of work to really
differentiate yourself in a pretty saturated market. So we had
resources in manufacturing and engineering, and Jake had a couple
(02:57):
of designs for a bolt action gun and he was
doing in nineteen eleven's already. But we just conducted a
full market landscape analysis and said, well, where's the white
space guys, where is their growth?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Where is their opportunity?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
And we came back to Jacobs like, hey man, it
looks like there's an opportunity in this double stack, and
he's like, oh yeah, that's easy. I've already got a
preliminary design for that. Let me dust it off, Like,
holy cow, are you serious? So, like you said, where
we positioned it was at the higher end, right, We
saw that there was plenty of competition at at the
bottom let's call it, you know, fifteen hundred to two
(03:31):
thousand dollars price point, and then there's some guys at
the high end, right, you know, six and eight thousand
dollars double stacks. You know that, guys like Atlas or Infinity,
and these guys they don't build a ton of guns, Tom,
they might build a couple hundred guns.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You have them credit. I mean, they're spectacular. You get
a heck of a gun for that.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
They do, and they've made a great business for themselves
at that volume. But what we wanted to do is
kind of occupy that that messy middle, if you will,
right like looking at you know, good value, but have
enough features in it that had some differentiation. And so
that's when we introduced the original TWC and positioned it
(04:11):
at the twenty price stands for throw back with capacity.
That was one of Jacob's.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Over the higher capacity are they now? Are they all
nine milimeter?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
They are currently we offer three different models of the
TWC and a couple different variants, but all in nine millimeter,
and we're tinkering with some other calibers, but right now
nine millimeters to focus.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
When you talk to somebody, they say, okay, what's look.
We all know all the names out there, and there's
some really nice double stack nineteen eleven's made. And they say, well,
I never heard of Jacob Gray. Why should I pay attention?
Why should I consider spending call it three grand in
the middle for a brand I've never heard of before?
What's special about your pistols?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, a couple couple things. So the biggest thing is
some of the epistols that are at the lower end
price point. You're going to get a grip module that's
injecting plastic injection mold. We're CNC machining from billet, our
grip our frame, and then the slide is C and
C machine from billet are not billet but stainless steel
(05:19):
for sixteen.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
So a lot of.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Machining goes into this, and a lot of tedious handwork
in assembling these guns.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Right, they're not they don't slap together like an AR fifteen.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It takes somebody with experience and understanding how to build
a high quality double stack. So primarily it's you're getting
the experience of the gunsmith that went into assembling it,
and then the the engineering and manufacturing prowess that goes
into making the components.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And of course you've got high ENDC and C machinery
because they've been doing aerospace stuff, so you exactly how
to do real precision machining.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
When we tell some of these machinists, it's like, hey,
that's al tolerance. They're used to holding two tenths of
a foul here, right, So it's like it's I won't
say it's a layup for them, but it's as easy
when you're used to aerospace.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Right, Okay, all right, here's the question for you. It
seems to me that most of the double stack ninety
elevens came from the original double stack nineteen elevens being
made for the forty five. So you got this big,
fat grip. Is there a way to make the grip
smaller since you're designing it around a nine millimeter there is?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Our current grip module is the same thickness as a
nineteen eleven and forty five with grip panels on it.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Exact same thickness.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, we're able to make the wall thickness a little
bit thinner because we're machining it out of aluminum, whereas
some of the guys with the injection plastic their a
little bit thicker. So you know, we're always working to
ways to make it even thinner, playing with more exotic
materials that we could go even thinner with wall thickness.
But yeah, anything we can do to make it as
(06:59):
small as possible with the highest capacity possible, that's the goal.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Describe for someone who's never shot a high end nineteen eleven.
And I talk about this on the show all the time.
I tell people because you know, we've got a whole
generation of maybe two generations of people who have grown
up with striker fired guns. And I love the experience
when you first put a nice nineteen eleven in their
hands and they shoot it. It's kind of like the
light comes on and they go, oh, now, I see
(07:25):
what you guys have been talking about. I keep telling
them it's the trigger man.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Well, I think it's just the overall shooting experience, right,
Like striker fire pistols are great and they serve their purpose.
I always compare it to high end cars or watches, right,
Like a Toyota Corolla is a car and it's got
four wheels, But a Maserati is also a car, and
that's kind of the difference between a striker fired, injection
(07:52):
molded plastic firearm versus a high end double stack nineteen eleven.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
It's just a different shooting experience.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
It's it's super smooth, it feels great in your hand,
it's got some heft to it. You can just feel
the craftsmanship and precision the same way you can in
a high end automobile or a high end watch. It's
just you feel the quality and you just got to
shoot it to feel it.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
But there's more to it than just saying this is
an incredible shooting experience, and it is, but you also
are build again because of the toler just because of everything,
you're doing a really high level of accuracy, aren't.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
You one hundred percent?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, they're easy to shoot because they're not real snappy.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
They're heavier guns, so they shoot pretty flat. And then
we have.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Options that are ported and comped and things like this
to make it even a more enjoyable shooting experience. But
they're super accurate handguns, right, Just the inherent design of
the nineteen eleven has led itself to accuracy, and now
with kind of modern advancements in barrel manufacturing and ammunition
advance since they're super accurate handguns.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Most people think I think of Double Stack nineteen elevens
as competition guns because that's rightly kind of where they
came from. Is you needed the more capacity and all that.
But now I'm seeing people talking about using them as
carry guns. What's going on?
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Yeah, so you're right.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
The original kind of Double Stack world was for competition
and the people building race guns, right, and like we
talked about, it's a great platform to do that with.
But as the platform has evolved a little bit, most
of our offerings are in four and a quarter inch
commander size, you know, so that's a big carry gun,
(09:38):
but certainly can be carried. But then there's plenty of
other competitors making options in three and a half and
three and a quarter, which are just great carry guns.
You know, they've got a little half to them. They're
not as light as a you know, a block forty
three that you're going to be able to conceal.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
In your sock, but still a really very concealable handgun.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It's a commitment, but it's a commitment to people who
say I want to carry a nice gun. I like
having a nice, really nice gun. And also for those
who've thought about it a lot, I want a gun
that I can actually hit a small target at a
little bit more range in that possibly rare but really
critical scenario where I got to defend myself or others.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Well one hundred percent Tom and you you hit the
nail on the head. It's like going back to this.
People've got to train, right and if your gun is
fun to shoot, you're going to train more. Right, So,
having a gun that's enjoyable to shoot and accurate and
you're having good success with you're going to train more
and be more confident if you ever do have to
use it. Not to say that some of these smaller
(10:39):
striker file pistols aren't fun to shoot, but they're not.
It's not the same experience that you get with a
double stack nineteen eleven. So I think it just lends
people to using them more, training with them more, and
then hopefully being more confident with them.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
If they ever do have to defend themselves well.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And speaking of training, I mean in a couple of weeks,
I'm going to be down in or whatever there three
weeks down in Louis Louisiana with you. We're doing an experience,
one of the Range Ready Studios experiences where all of
the shooters, all the people and the students in the
class are shooting Jacob Gray double stack ninety elevens. I
think we're using the TWC black.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, we hoped you guys up with some TWC blacks.
You guys did a great job pulling together this event.
I think it's going to be a really cool experience
for the guys who got signed up. I'll get Traja
Kana on as a partner too for optics. It's going
to be a really neat event. And you guys got
some great trainers that are going to teach folks not
only the finer points of how to use them, but
(11:35):
how to maintain them and keep up with their guns.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
So it's going to be exciting.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I kind of sense you dropped a couple of hints.
You may not have even known it. As we're going along.
You got some other guns and the works, and things
are going to be pretty exciting for people to see.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
It's tough to keep Jake on the reins a little bit.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
He's a tinker by trade and so he's always coming
up with new designs, and sometimes we've.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Got a in a little bit, you know, to kind of.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Let us let's sell the gun we've got right now
before we drop the next model.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
But man, we've only really been in the.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Double Stack world about twenty months and we've dropped three
models with you know, five or six variants for each
one of those, so we've really been at it hard.
And yeah, we're we're working on some other stuff, like
we talked about maybe some alternative calibers, different materials. So
exciting stuff to come from Jacob Gray. All right, and
(12:28):
the website is it's Jacob Grayfirearms dot Com. Pretty pretty easy,
Jake Dirktt.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I appreciate your time, and I look forward to getting
together with you down at Range Ready Studio shooting those
very cool guns.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
No, thank you, Tom, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You bet you all right. Don't go far people. Gun
Talk will be right back with.
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Speaker 9 (14:54):
Hey there, this is Brian Wilson's veteran of fifty five
years in radio. Maybe you've been lucky enough to miss
all of my shows, but the highlight of my career
was being with Tom Gresham when gun Talk hit the
air thirty long hard ruling years ago. Tom Gresham's Gun
Talk one of radio's big success stories. Great show, great guy.
Congratulations Tom. It's a pleasure listening to you.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
All right back with you eight sixty six Talk Gun
or Tom Talk Gun. I got a question for you.
Is the forty five ACP cartridge as in forty five
automatic is that a boomer cartridge. I'm seeing it refer
to as not the forty five ACP, which stands for
Automatic coat Pistol. It's been referred to online as the
(15:42):
forty five aa RP. Of course, the funny part of
it is, you got all this folks that grown up
on nine melimeters. They got the doublestick nines, I got
their slim nines, I got the super nines. I got
the Oh that's fine, and I got them too. And
they hear people talk about forty five, and oh, that's
(16:04):
an old cartridge, except that the nine milimeter cartridge, the
nine milimeter luger cartridge, is actually older than the forty
five ACP. Originally, gotta go back. Originally the forty five
was favored because all anybody used was full metal jacket,
(16:29):
non expanding bullets, and so a forty five calier bullet
makes a bigger hole than a nine milimeter bullet. Nine
millimeter is point three five five, forty five is point
four to five to one bigger hole. Once we got
to using expanding AMMO, which the military can't and doesn't use,
(16:52):
then the difference became not so big. And then of
course we ended up with I guess, starting with maybe
I don't. It was the brownie high power of the
first double stack nine it might have been, so now
we have more ammo. So then the question became more
(17:13):
rounds of nine or fewer rounds of forty five, but
bigger bullets. And then of course there was the nineteen
eleven pistol, which was designed around and primarily chambered in
the forty five ACP and a lot of people pick
your boomers and older people, you know, people at my
age who go up on the forty five really liked it.
(17:35):
And like there was the nineteen eleven shot. And then
of course we got nineteen eleven pistols in nine millimeter,
and I will tell you that it is so sweet,
it's unbelievable. Love love love shooting those things. And of
course the double stacks, for the most part, double stack
nineteen eleven's now are nine milimeter. I have had double
(17:56):
stack forty five, big fat grips about him. So just
an interesting question is like, okay, do you have a
forty five? Do you shoot a forty five? And of
course these days it may be more than anything else.
This may not be a philosophical or an intellectual argument
at all. It may just be what's the cost of them,
(18:19):
because forty five am was simply more expensive? All right,
I mean, it just is you can shoot more than nine.
All right, let's go to the phones line five. Brendan
is with us out of New Hampshire. Hey, Brendan, you're
on gun Talk. What's up?
Speaker 10 (18:32):
Yahoo?
Speaker 11 (18:33):
Hey? How are you doing something?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I'm great?
Speaker 11 (18:36):
So my question for you today. I have an AR fifteen.
It's in two two three wild and I am looking
to build a upper that I can slap bottom my lower.
I'm debating between three fifty Legend and four to fifty Bushmaster,
and I want to use this for hunt and whitetail
up a New Hampshire averagehot about one hundred yards maybe
(18:57):
hundred and fifty at the longest. Want something that's all
purpose that I can just slap an opper on. And
I want your opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
You know this is one of those that there's no
right answer. I mean, and you know this going into it.
It's gonna be a personal preference in this case. Do
you know, do you want the big fat bullet, you
want a little bit not quite a stat bullet, or
I want to throw a curve at you would you
want to go to something like a grendle.
Speaker 11 (19:25):
So you're saying to a six y five grendle instead, potentially.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, there's never an instead. When you're a rifle looney
like us. It becomes in addition to doesn't it.
Speaker 11 (19:38):
Oh yeah, So I guess what would be some benefits to,
or maybe even cons to, you know, a free fifty
or a four fifty against like a six five brendle,
because I have fun about the six five brendle.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Well, the grendle's going to get you a little bit
more range. I mean you're probably looking at a good
two to two hundred and fifty yards. It's ballpark lower,
certainly less recoil than those bigger cartridges. But at the
same time, the big cartridges are just fun. I mean,
you don't want to poke a big hole in a deer.
Either of those are going to work just fine. You know.
(20:15):
The problem here is that the AR fifteen, that's the
problem is that the AR fifteen makes it easy to
do swaps, you know, just swap out you know, uppers,
and then of course the eventually you're gonna end up
with a at AR ten lower. You know that. And
now you're going to start playing with you know, Creed
Moores and other things, and it's you know, you're off
(20:35):
of the races at this point.
Speaker 11 (20:38):
So what I hear you saying, and this is the
impulse buyer in me, what I hear you saying is
I need to have an upper in four to fifty Legend,
three fifty bush Master, sorry for four fifty bush Master,
three fifty Legend and six five Grendel. Just have three
separate uppers and just pick one and go.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I like the way you think. I think you've got
this thing figured out, and that'll get you started. You know.
It's a good start, as we like to say. And
then of course you're going to say, well, why would
I be swapping this out? I need some more luwers,
so we have complete rifles for all of these. There
is no end to this, you'd understand.
Speaker 11 (21:12):
Right, Building is fun.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
There you go, Well, look after you get it built
and after you shoot it, we would love to get
a range report on which one you picked and how
it works for you.
Speaker 11 (21:22):
Okay, all right, it sounds good.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Thanks thanks to call. I appreciate that it is one
of those deals. I mean. The AR fifteen is a
kit gun, and you just you can pull uppers off,
you can swap barrels out, you can change parts out,
and for an awful lot of people, the building the
gun is a big part of the attraction of it.
(21:46):
It's like, yeah, Okay, I don't really need that, but
it'd be fun to build that, and I'll use this buffer,
and I'll use this, and I'll that's fine, and we
end up with all these parts. And the thing is,
once you get used to it and you're good at it,
you can build guns in a hurry. Man less than
an hour put a gun together. So you know, there
you go. Why wouldn't you, right eight six' six talk?
(22:07):
Gun what are you? Shooting what are you? Building, yeah
there's a lot going on out In colorado right. Now of,
course the legislature has been, busy, busy busy with try
to pass maybe passing gun, control, loss gun, bands gun,
(22:30):
restrictions restrictions on, magazines restrictions on, age limits of when
you can own a. Gun michael wants to talk about.
That he's out In, denver right there in the middle
of all of. It, Hey, MICHAEL i appreciate you calling.
In what are you seeing on the ground? There and
what are your questions for?
Speaker 12 (22:44):
Me, Yeah, HI i am in. Progression this is really
a distinct honor to speak with. You i'm a millennial
AND i really appreciate your showing what you. Do so
thank you so, much first of, all and, yeah, no
to answer your. Question you, know SO i wanted to
actually talk a little bit about this bill in The
Colorado senate right now that what it. Does it's requiring
(23:07):
in order for people to buy certain guns with extended,
magazines that you have to take a training course to
be able to purchase those. Guns and, additionally you have
to have a criminal background. Check and you, know certain
proponents of the bill argue the reason basically they're proposing
this is that so people that kind of have this
(23:28):
spur of the moment mental health break cannot just go
on a whim and buy one of these guns with
a high round capacity. Magazine it would slow that process down,
Essentially and OBVIOUSLY i, think you, know people that are
committed to getting their hands on these are going to get,
them but it would slow that process. Down and you,
know just looking at it from a constitutional, STANDPOINT i
(23:51):
was kind of just interested in getting your. Thoughts you
think that this is kind of trampling on the right
to bear, arms like adding these protections or to do
this is kind of a good.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Thing, WELL i wouldn't call them. PROTECTIONS i would call them.
Restrictions so we've got that thing going. On we have
tried a number in THE us at the, local, state
and federal. Level we have tried magazine capacity. Bans we
had a ten year ban nationally in the whole country
(24:22):
on standard capacity. Magazines anything over ten rounds is a
standard capacity, magazine it's not large. Capacity we had absolutely
no impact on. Crime crime did not go down where
we ban the saale. Ofies here's a question for. You
they're saying that you would have to before you could buy,
(24:43):
these you'd have to take a, class you have to take,
training and you're saying that that would slow the process.
Down wouldn't it make sense then if the idea is
that we're going to stop the impulse buy or slow
the process down or have a cooling off. Period wouldn't
it make sense then to, say but that doesn't apply
(25:03):
to anybody who already owns a, gun because that person
doesn't need a cooling off. Periods he or she already
has a. Gun so that person should be able to
just buy them without any kind of restrictions or. Delays
don't you, think, well that's.
Speaker 12 (25:15):
That's a good. POINT i think when you look at
like the majority of mass, SHOOTINGS i think a lot of,
times you, know the majority of, cases they don't already
own they don't already own, guns and so you, know
if they have a spur of the moment, thing they
can go get. One but then you are also look
at you, know we have a situation back in twenty
(25:36):
twelve here In colorado where you, know The aurora movie theater,
shooting where this individual collected these firearms over a period
OF i think it was like four or five, Months
and SO i think it's like kind of a kind
of a weird situation, that you, know we need to
(25:57):
do something about. IT i don't think there's any question about.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, wait we need to
do something. About what.
Speaker 12 (26:06):
About how easily accessible it is to get these Not
i'm not talking about, handguns but you know ars to
have like one hundred round.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Capacities, okay you tell me how how easy is it
to get? Them have you ever bought?
Speaker 12 (26:23):
ONE i have, not BUT i know that they're you
know under the, constitution you know you're able to buy
one the same day you if you want to go get.
One SO i think that do you do you?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Know do you know what's involved in buying? One do
you know.
Speaker 12 (26:41):
That you have me there's a criminal background?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Check do you know that you have to get the
approval of THE fbi to buy?
Speaker 12 (26:48):
ONE i know there's a criminal background, check AND i
think that's what you're referring.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
To but, yes you have to get you, individually have
to get the approval of THE fbi before you can
buy one every single. Time that's current.
Speaker 12 (27:06):
Law, YEAH i haven't ever tried to buy, One but
that's How how is?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
That how is? That how is that easy? Access?
Speaker 12 (27:16):
WELL i DON'T i think. That, well you just look
at the cases where you, know people in these situations
have gotten their hands on these guns kind of, easily
AND i think it kind of speaks for. Itself but, no, no,
no it does.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Not, no, no, no, no it does not speak for.
Itself you have to speak for. It you need to
make the case here Because i'm disagreeing with almost everything you're.
Saying But i'm waiting for you to make a coach
at point, here saying that it speaks for itself is
waving her hand and making it all go away and
saying you're not going to defend your. POSITION i need
for you to tell me what you. Think why you
(27:49):
think any of these people who want to murder people
are going to be dissuaded from doing that because they
have to wait a day or two or.
Speaker 12 (27:55):
Three, well that's a good And i'm not necessarily disagreeing with.
You i'm just SAYING i think that when you, say,
well just in, general to say, okay well you have
to have a training course to buy any AR i
don't think that's a bad thing as far as it
being a. DETERRENT i, mean you, KNOW i think it
(28:15):
could be considered a, deterrent but just in, GENERAL i
don't think that's a.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
NEGATIVE i gotta ask, you would you be in favor
of required government training before you could post something online
to exercise Your First? Amendment?
Speaker 12 (28:31):
RIGHT i think that's a little bit, different how how
than having a gun that's capable.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Felling you, know both of these are guaranteed rights under The,
constitution where The constitution says the government shall not infringe these,
rights and you're saying the government can infringe On Second.
Amendment they require a waiting period or a background. Check
And i'm, saying, well if it's good enough for The Second,
amendment it's good enough for The First. Amendment and you're rejecting,
(28:58):
that And i'm not getting.
Speaker 12 (28:59):
One when The founding fathers were around and wrote these,
rules they didn't have air fifteens that were capable of
taking out one hundred people in ten, minutes you, know five.
MINUTES i, MEAN i don't think they envisioned that when
they wrote these kind of you, know protections in The
constitution for.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
That sure they, Did sure they. Did wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait of course they. Did there were full automatic guns
at the time that they wrote The. Constitution are you
aware of?
Speaker 12 (29:23):
That not to the extent of what's around.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Today, well we didn't have the internet, either so should
we ban the? Internet come, on, Yeah advances and technology
do not negate our constitutional. Rights The Supreme court has
actually said that you cannot, say, well, gee we have
more advanced guns, now and therefore we can ban. Them
they have rejected that out of. Hand so that's completely
(29:50):
off the. Table so you got to go back To,
okay here's a question for. You do you know that
most mass shootings in THE us involve handguns and not a.
Fifteens are you even aware that more people are murdered
with fist and feet than they are with semi automatic.
Speaker 12 (30:06):
Rifles we're talking about The air fifteenth AND i Get.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I'm i'm talking About i'm talking about, Now i'm talking about,
crime and you're talking about, crime And i'm telling you
that more, people according to THE, fbi are murdered with
fist and feet than they are WITH ar. Fifteens, WELL i, mean.
Speaker 12 (30:22):
You can kill someone with a, break you can kill
someone with thank. You BUT i think it's just, like,
then why are.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You focusing on one? Instrumentality that's a good.
Speaker 12 (30:35):
POINT i mean you got?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Me, yeah, okay LOOK i got a run of the break.
HERE i appreciate you you going along with. Me i'm
just going to SUGGEST i think you need to give
this the more thought and find different sources of information
BECAUSE i think you're being fed a lot of crap
from what you're listening to right, now what you're paying attention.
To you need to rethink. This understand that more people
(30:59):
are murdered by with fists and feet than they are
WITH ar. Fifteens you're being fed, propaganda my.
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Speaker 14 (32:12):
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(32:33):
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Speaker 16 (33:13):
Com, hey, Tom my name Is Zach.
Speaker 17 (33:23):
Chase i've been listening for about eight. YEARS i have
gleaned so much information from your Show Amo, guns shooting carrying.
LAWS i build experimental Airplanes. SATURDAYS i listened to you
On iHeartRadio in the shop While i'm. WORKING i hope
thirty years went by, quick AND i hope the next
thirty goes by really.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Slow all?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Right that with, you we're open. Lines if there's something
you want to talk, about by all, means dive. IN
i appreciate our last. CALLER i appreciate them diving. In
we were short on, time And I'M i KNOW i
have to kind of jump into times and, say, look
you got to make your. Point you got to get your.
Point you can't just throw something out there and, say,
well of course we all know that air fifteen is a. Problem,
no we. Don't And i'm not gonna let people just
(34:10):
throw that out and then move on to the next.
Thing i'm going to challenge those kind of. Statements most
people weren't said it's, easy you, know the easy access of.
Guns it's easy to get An air, Fifteen AND i,
said what have you ever bought? One? Well, no do
you know what's? Involved? No do you know that THE
fbi has to okay every single. PURCHASE i did not know.
(34:30):
That and then here's there's an interesting, one the so
called cooling off. Period but we're going to delay the
purchase for a day or a week or ten. Days,
logically that would not apply to anybody who already owns a,
(34:51):
gun would, It because if you've already own a, gun
you don't really need a ruling off period before you
buy your next. Gun as an idea to, say, well you,
know if you would calm, down maybe you won't be
murdering someone with your new, gun it's idiotic on the
(35:14):
face of. It and when you really start diving into.
It if you look at who proposes measures like, that
it's groups and individuals who don't want you or anyone
to own a gun. Period how many barriers can they
put in your? Way how many financial hurdles can they
(35:39):
make you have to leap? Over how many delays in
terms of like a carry, PERMIT i, mean believe or.
Not in some places you're waiting a year or more
before they will process your. Application not because they have,
to not because the system works that, slowly only because
they want. You they wanted to be so difficult that
(36:02):
you don't even apply in the first. Place that's really
all it. Is let's go line. Five jeff's with us
In North. Carolina, Hello, jeff thebe are you doing?
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Today?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
CAPTAIN i am. GOOD i take it to you kind.
Of we're listening to that.
Speaker 10 (36:19):
Conversation oh, MAN i have to assume this guy has
never held a gun in his hand his whole. Life you,
KNOW i grew up on a. Farm we grew, up
we had guns at an early, age and my dad
was the best teacher you could ever, have and if
you didn't listen to, him he tear into. You but
my point about that guy's. Conversation you brought up some
(36:41):
of that about you, know we have A First amendment
of the freedom of, speech AND i, said you, know
does he even realize how many times pedophiles are on the?
Internet dragon for? Children as he realized how many terrorists are,
recruited and how many killings they do off the. Internet
and yet you know everybody wants. It, nah, no we
(37:04):
can't mess with. That we can't mess with. That, right
you have to throw off The Second. Amendment you got
more death off the internet and you do off the
guns in this.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Country, WELL i find you that a lot a lot
of people want to restrict things that don't affect. Them you,
KNOW i don't own one of, these AND i don't
think you should. Either AND i, say, okay, well let's
go to things that you do, own the things that
you do. Use let's have a cooling off period before
you can buy a phone or a, computer because that's
The First amendment. Issue oh, yeah we can't do. That
(37:32):
well why, Not, well we just. Can't and it's, like,
okay you're not making any sense, here and then he
throws out stuff, like, well of, course it's just a
given that you, know a f fifteen is a problem and, go, well, actually,
no when you look at the, numbers a lot more
people are killed with fists and feet than they. Are of,
course handguns are the primary tool used in terms of
firearms to murder, people and yet they want to focus
(37:55):
on one small aspect of firearms out. There so it's
JUST i, mean it's where we, are And, JEFF i
appreciate the call. It UNFORTUNATELY i kind of let him run,
along So i've squeezed us out on being able to
talk a lot about that in this little part of the.
Segment it. Is it is an ongoing, issue and we
still have a lot of states who are passing bans
(38:19):
on commonly owned. Guns and, frankly Tomorrow, monday we will find.
OUT i hope that The Supreme court is going to
take the case out Of maryland where they have banned
commonly owned semi automatic, firearms and with any lot For
Supreme court's going to come back and, say, hey we
(38:40):
really meant. It In heller and In bruin you cannot
ban guns that are in common use for lawful purposes
and put a stop to. This put a stop to.
This if we, don't Then i'm not sure the second
amendment actually means anything at. All just think about that
(39:08):
caller From. Colorado he's not as good idea to have
more strict restrictions on guns and, gunbuying and he. Did
he said it's. EVIDENT i think maybe a couple of,
times you, know and using the argument it's evident and
then throw out things is a way of, saying this
is WHAT i, believe BUT i don't really want to
have to support, it SO i will shut down your
(39:32):
objection to this by saying it's evident or it's. Obvious
it's a. Tactic it may not even know that's what he's,
doing but that's what's going on. There let's go talk
With brady In Big, Spring texas online For, brady talk to.
Speaker 10 (39:44):
Me, hey how's it?
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Going?
Speaker 10 (39:46):
Tom?
Speaker 12 (39:47):
Great good there?
Speaker 18 (39:49):
Here hey, Man i'm actually on my way To colorado
today AND i was wondering as far as carrying in
gun laws In. Colorado AM i enable to carry My?
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Probably BUT i would suggest you make it a point
to go to the website handgun law dot. Us that's
singular handgun law dot us and look up you have
A texas carry? PERMIT i take? It, Yes, OKAY i
think that is AND i don't know for. SURE i
(40:23):
would have to go, check BUT i think that you
Have russell prosty In, colorado but you better. Check THEY
i think have maybe magazine capacity, limits so you may
have to adhere to. That you simply have. To we
have to check on this when we travel state to,
state because you go into a state where you've got
your regular carry gun In, texas and you go in
(40:44):
there and they, go, oh you got seventeen rounds in your. Gun,
oh you're only allowed to have fifteen or twelve or
ten or whatever it is in the, state and you
had no. Idea SO i make it a point to
actually read through the restrictions and the information on Handgun
law DOT. Us every TIME i travel with my pistol ten.
Speaker 18 (41:00):
Four i'll have to hop on there in my next.
Stop AND i just wanted to touch base really fast
on the previous. TOPIC i fully agree with you one hundred.
Speaker 12 (41:10):
Percent and it's.
Speaker 18 (41:12):
Not so much fact of anybody who can go in
a gun storing five. Gun you, know those background checks
are there for a, reason and really it's it's amazing
to me how that's overlooked by today in.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Media, well it's a great. Point we do have the background,
checks and we have restrictions on who can own guns
and who can buy. Guns you, know and if you're
a convicted felon right, now you can't own a. Gun
and there are several other categories where you can't own
or buy a. Gun. Now having said all, that, LOOK
i appreciate the. Call having said all, THAT i would
(41:46):
love to get rid of background checks. Altogether i'd love
to get rid of THE. Atf i'd love to get
rid of the forty four seventy. Three i'd love to
get rid of federal firearm, licenses not gun. Stores but
REMEMBER i grew up in a time before or gun
stores had to have a Federal firem's, license and any hardware,
store any gas station could sell a. Gun and there
(42:07):
is no such thing as a background. Check there's no
such thing as forty four seventy threes and filling out a,
form and we didn't have any problems these restrictions on,
us these, delays this book, keeping all of this bureaucracy
has not made us any. Safer it has simply made
the bureaucracy bigger and has built illegal national registries of gun.
(42:31):
Owners it, is by the, way against the law for
the federal government to have a registry of gun. Owners,
actually there are two different laws that prohibit, that and
yet they do. It we know THE atf is doing.
It maybe Cash buttel can go in there and take
care of. That maybe we'll. See but if you said
(42:53):
what WOULD i want to, Have i'd want to Have
no such thing as a federal farm's, License no such
thing as a background, check no such thing as a
forty four to seventy, three no such thing as waiting,
periods no such thing as carry. Permits because keeping bear
arms means bare means to. Carry it's A Second amendment.
(43:14):
Right you shouldn't have to, say, mother MAY i? In
and please MAY i, in do a delay and have
to take a class and pay big money to get
a permit to carry a gun when it's already guaranteed
right under The Second. Amendment it's really as simple as. That,
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Speaker 2 (00:11):
All right, we're back with you, Tom Grasham. Here, it's
gun Talk. Give me a call, pretty easy. Just give
me a call it Tom Talk Gun. That's the number
here of course. All right, And I told you before
Shot Show said this is gonna be the year on
the double Stack nineteen eleven. They've been coming on and
then all of a sudden boom, they're everywhere. And some
names that you know and some names you don't know.
(00:32):
And one of those that may be one of those
you don't know is the firm of Jacob Gray. Well,
who are these guys and what is this cool looking gun? Well,
let's talk to Jay Duncan from Jacob Gray. Jay, all right,
start off with is there actually a person named Jacob Gray.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
There is a person named Jacob Gray, so that is
our founder and CEO. His name is Jacob Gray Bracket.
And he thought that his middle name and his first
name sounded like a cool brand, and it certainly does.
So we've just been going with that. Now Jacob our
owner and founder. He's got a background in aerospace, so
(01:11):
he's had an aerospace business called Jacob Gray Precision Machining
for about twenty years now, where they focus on what
they call blue streak aerospace parts. It's fun business, but
not as much fun as the gun business for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
All Right, So how do you move from doing aerospace stuff?
What's the interest? Was he a shooter and why get
into making pistols? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So his father, So back up just a minute. Jacob
is a third generation machinist. You grew up in a
machine shop, ran a machine shop, and then about twenty
years ago branched out on his own to start his
own machine shop. Throughout that time, even when he was
a kid, his dad was a big nineteen eleven officionado.
(01:54):
And Jake has had his FFL for over twenty years
and was building, you know, five to ten nineteen elevens
a year, just kind of as a passion project and
just had a lot of fun with it.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, I mean, and I know you make ars as well,
but I really want to talk about the double stack
ninety elevens because that's the thing everybody wants to talk about.
There's a real interest in double stack nineteen elevens Now,
I think you're out of this kind of pivot point.
The question is, you know, what is it about the
nineteen eleven double stack that has people interested? And also
why higher end because I mean your pistols are in
(02:31):
the twenty five hundred to thirty five hundred dollars range.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Well, yeah, Toms, you and I spoke before.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I've been in this industry a long time and I
hired on with Jake about two years ago, and he
was only doing AR fifteen's at that point, and that's
a tough road to hoe right now. Supersaturated, there's a
you've got to do a lot of work to really
differentiate yourself in a pretty saturated market. So we had
resources in manufacturing and engineering, and Jake had a couple
(02:57):
of designs for a bolt action gun and he was
doing in nineteen eleven's already. But we just conducted a
full market landscape analysis and said, well, where's the white
space guys, where is their growth?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Where is their opportunity?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
And we came back to Jacobs like, hey man, it
looks like there's an opportunity in this double stack, and
he's like, oh yeah, that's easy. I've already got a
preliminary design for that. Let me dust it off, Like,
holy cow, are you serious? So, like you said, where
we positioned it was at the higher end, right, We
saw that there was plenty of competition at at the
bottom let's call it, you know, fifteen hundred to two
(03:31):
thousand dollars price point, and then there's some guys at
the high end, right, you know, six and eight thousand
dollars double stacks. You know that, guys like Atlas or Infinity,
and these guys they don't build a ton of guns, Tom,
they might build a couple hundred guns.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You have them credit. I mean, they're spectacular. You get
a heck of a gun for that.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
They do, and they've made a great business for themselves
at that volume. But what we wanted to do is
kind of occupy that that messy middle, if you will,
right like looking at you know, good value, but have
enough features in it that had some differentiation. And so
that's when we introduced the original TWC and positioned it
(04:11):
at the twenty price stands for throw back with capacity.
That was one of Jacob's.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Over the higher capacity are they now? Are they all
nine milimeter?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
They are currently we offer three different models of the
TWC and a couple different variants, but all in nine millimeter,
and we're tinkering with some other calibers, but right now
nine millimeters to focus.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
When you talk to somebody, they say, okay, what's look.
We all know all the names out there, and there's
some really nice double stack nineteen eleven's made. And they say, well,
I never heard of Jacob Gray. Why should I pay attention?
Why should I consider spending call it three grand in
the middle for a brand I've never heard of before?
What's special about your pistols?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, a couple couple things. So the biggest thing is
some of the epistols that are at the lower end
price point. You're going to get a grip module that's
injecting plastic injection mold. We're CNC machining from billet, our
grip our frame, and then the slide is C and
C machine from billet are not billet but stainless steel
(05:19):
for sixteen.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
So a lot of.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Machining goes into this, and a lot of tedious handwork
in assembling these guns.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Right, they're not they don't slap together like an AR fifteen.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It takes somebody with experience and understanding how to build
a high quality double stack. So primarily it's you're getting
the experience of the gunsmith that went into assembling it,
and then the the engineering and manufacturing prowess that goes
into making the components.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And of course you've got high ENDC and C machinery
because they've been doing aerospace stuff, so you exactly how
to do real precision machining.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
When we tell some of these machinists, it's like, hey,
that's al tolerance. They're used to holding two tenths of
a foul here, right, So it's like it's I won't
say it's a layup for them, but it's as easy
when you're used to aerospace.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Right, Okay, all right, here's the question for you. It
seems to me that most of the double stack ninety
elevens came from the original double stack nineteen elevens being
made for the forty five. So you got this big,
fat grip. Is there a way to make the grip
smaller since you're designing it around a nine millimeter there is?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Our current grip module is the same thickness as a
nineteen eleven and forty five with grip panels on it.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Exact same thickness.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, we're able to make the wall thickness a little
bit thinner because we're machining it out of aluminum, whereas
some of the guys with the injection plastic their a
little bit thicker. So you know, we're always working to
ways to make it even thinner, playing with more exotic
materials that we could go even thinner with wall thickness.
But yeah, anything we can do to make it as
(06:59):
small as possible with the highest capacity possible, that's the goal.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Describe for someone who's never shot a high end nineteen eleven.
And I talk about this on the show all the time.
I tell people because you know, we've got a whole
generation of maybe two generations of people who have grown
up with striker fired guns. And I love the experience
when you first put a nice nineteen eleven in their
hands and they shoot it. It's kind of like the
light comes on and they go, oh, now, I see
(07:25):
what you guys have been talking about. I keep telling
them it's the trigger man.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Well, I think it's just the overall shooting experience, right,
Like striker fire pistols are great and they serve their purpose.
I always compare it to high end cars or watches, right,
Like a Toyota Corolla is a car and it's got
four wheels, But a Maserati is also a car, and
that's kind of the difference between a striker fired, injection
(07:52):
molded plastic firearm versus a high end double stack nineteen eleven.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
It's just a different shooting experience.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
It's it's super smooth, it feels great in your hand,
it's got some heft to it. You can just feel
the craftsmanship and precision the same way you can in
a high end automobile or a high end watch. It's
just you feel the quality and you just got to
shoot it to feel it.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
But there's more to it than just saying this is
an incredible shooting experience, and it is, but you also
are build again because of the toler just because of everything,
you're doing a really high level of accuracy, aren't.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
You one hundred percent?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, they're easy to shoot because they're not real snappy.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
They're heavier guns, so they shoot pretty flat. And then
we have.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Options that are ported and comped and things like this
to make it even a more enjoyable shooting experience. But
they're super accurate handguns, right, Just the inherent design of
the nineteen eleven has led itself to accuracy, and now
with kind of modern advancements in barrel manufacturing and ammunition
advance since they're super accurate handguns.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Most people think I think of Double Stack nineteen elevens
as competition guns because that's rightly kind of where they
came from. Is you needed the more capacity and all that.
But now I'm seeing people talking about using them as
carry guns. What's going on?
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Yeah, so you're right.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
The original kind of Double Stack world was for competition
and the people building race guns, right, and like we
talked about, it's a great platform to do that with.
But as the platform has evolved a little bit, most
of our offerings are in four and a quarter inch
commander size, you know, so that's a big carry gun,
(09:38):
but certainly can be carried. But then there's plenty of
other competitors making options in three and a half and
three and a quarter, which are just great carry guns.
You know, they've got a little half to them. They're
not as light as a you know, a block forty
three that you're going to be able to conceal.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
In your sock, but still a really very concealable handgun.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It's a commitment, but it's a commitment to people who
say I want to carry a nice gun. I like
having a nice, really nice gun. And also for those
who've thought about it a lot, I want a gun
that I can actually hit a small target at a
little bit more range in that possibly rare but really
critical scenario where I got to defend myself or others.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Well one hundred percent Tom and you you hit the
nail on the head. It's like going back to this.
People've got to train, right and if your gun is
fun to shoot, you're going to train more. Right, So,
having a gun that's enjoyable to shoot and accurate and
you're having good success with you're going to train more
and be more confident if you ever do have to
use it. Not to say that some of these smaller
(10:39):
striker file pistols aren't fun to shoot, but they're not.
It's not the same experience that you get with a
double stack nineteen eleven. So I think it just lends
people to using them more, training with them more, and
then hopefully being more confident with them.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
If they ever do have to defend themselves well.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And speaking of training, I mean in a couple of weeks,
I'm going to be down in or whatever there three
weeks down in Louis Louisiana with you. We're doing an experience,
one of the Range Ready Studios experiences where all of
the shooters, all the people and the students in the
class are shooting Jacob Gray double stack ninety elevens. I
think we're using the TWC black.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, we hoped you guys up with some TWC blacks.
You guys did a great job pulling together this event.
I think it's going to be a really cool experience
for the guys who got signed up. I'll get Traja
Kana on as a partner too for optics. It's going
to be a really neat event. And you guys got
some great trainers that are going to teach folks not
only the finer points of how to use them, but
(11:35):
how to maintain them and keep up with their guns.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
So it's going to be exciting.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I kind of sense you dropped a couple of hints.
You may not have even known it. As we're going along.
You got some other guns and the works, and things
are going to be pretty exciting for people to see.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
It's tough to keep Jake on the reins a little bit.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
He's a tinker by trade and so he's always coming
up with new designs, and sometimes we've.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Got a in a little bit, you know, to kind of.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Let us let's sell the gun we've got right now
before we drop the next model.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
But man, we've only really been in the.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Double Stack world about twenty months and we've dropped three
models with you know, five or six variants for each
one of those, so we've really been at it hard.
And yeah, we're we're working on some other stuff, like
we talked about maybe some alternative calibers, different materials. So
exciting stuff to come from Jacob Gray. All right, and
(12:28):
the website is it's Jacob Grayfirearms dot Com. Pretty pretty easy,
Jake Dirktt.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I appreciate your time, and I look forward to getting
together with you down at Range Ready Studio shooting those
very cool guns.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
No, thank you, Tom, I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You bet you all right. Don't go far people. Gun
Talk will be right back with.
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Speaker 9 (14:54):
Hey there, this is Brian Wilson's veteran of fifty five
years in radio. Maybe you've been lucky enough to miss
all of my shows, but the highlight of my career
was being with Tom Gresham when gun Talk hit the
air thirty long hard ruling years ago. Tom Gresham's Gun
Talk one of radio's big success stories. Great show, great guy.
Congratulations Tom. It's a pleasure listening to you.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
All right back with you eight sixty six Talk Gun
or Tom Talk Gun. I got a question for you.
Is the forty five ACP cartridge as in forty five
automatic is that a boomer cartridge. I'm seeing it refer
to as not the forty five ACP, which stands for
Automatic coat Pistol. It's been referred to online as the
(15:42):
forty five aa RP. Of course, the funny part of
it is, you got all this folks that grown up
on nine melimeters. They got the doublestick nines, I got
their slim nines, I got the super nines. I got
the Oh that's fine, and I got them too. And
they hear people talk about forty five, and oh, that's
(16:04):
an old cartridge, except that the nine milimeter cartridge, the
nine milimeter luger cartridge, is actually older than the forty
five ACP. Originally, gotta go back. Originally the forty five
was favored because all anybody used was full metal jacket,
(16:29):
non expanding bullets, and so a forty five calier bullet
makes a bigger hole than a nine milimeter bullet. Nine
millimeter is point three five five, forty five is point
four to five to one bigger hole. Once we got
to using expanding AMMO, which the military can't and doesn't use,
(16:52):
then the difference became not so big. And then of
course we ended up with I guess, starting with maybe
I don't. It was the brownie high power of the
first double stack nine it might have been, so now
we have more ammo. So then the question became more
(17:13):
rounds of nine or fewer rounds of forty five, but
bigger bullets. And then of course there was the nineteen
eleven pistol, which was designed around and primarily chambered in
the forty five ACP and a lot of people pick
your boomers and older people, you know, people at my
age who go up on the forty five really liked it.
(17:35):
And like there was the nineteen eleven shot. And then
of course we got nineteen eleven pistols in nine millimeter,
and I will tell you that it is so sweet,
it's unbelievable. Love love love shooting those things. And of
course the double stacks, for the most part, double stack
nineteen eleven's now are nine milimeter. I have had double
(17:56):
stack forty five, big fat grips about him. So just
an interesting question is like, okay, do you have a
forty five? Do you shoot a forty five? And of
course these days it may be more than anything else.
This may not be a philosophical or an intellectual argument
at all. It may just be what's the cost of them,
(18:19):
because forty five am was simply more expensive? All right,
I mean, it just is you can shoot more than nine.
All right, let's go to the phones line five. Brendan
is with us out of New Hampshire. Hey, Brendan, you're
on gun Talk. What's up?
Speaker 10 (18:32):
Yahoo?
Speaker 11 (18:33):
Hey? How are you doing something?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I'm great?
Speaker 11 (18:36):
So my question for you today. I have an AR fifteen.
It's in two two three wild and I am looking
to build a upper that I can slap bottom my lower.
I'm debating between three fifty Legend and four to fifty Bushmaster,
and I want to use this for hunt and whitetail
up a New Hampshire averagehot about one hundred yards maybe
(18:57):
hundred and fifty at the longest. Want something that's all
purpose that I can just slap an opper on. And
I want your opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
You know this is one of those that there's no
right answer. I mean, and you know this going into it.
It's gonna be a personal preference in this case. Do
you know, do you want the big fat bullet, you
want a little bit not quite a stat bullet, or
I want to throw a curve at you would you
want to go to something like a grendle.
Speaker 11 (19:25):
So you're saying to a six y five grendle instead, potentially.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, there's never an instead. When you're a rifle looney
like us. It becomes in addition to doesn't it.
Speaker 11 (19:38):
Oh yeah, So I guess what would be some benefits to,
or maybe even cons to, you know, a free fifty
or a four fifty against like a six five brendle,
because I have fun about the six five brendle.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Well, the grendle's going to get you a little bit
more range. I mean you're probably looking at a good
two to two hundred and fifty yards. It's ballpark lower,
certainly less recoil than those bigger cartridges. But at the
same time, the big cartridges are just fun. I mean,
you don't want to poke a big hole in a deer.
Either of those are going to work just fine. You know.
(20:15):
The problem here is that the AR fifteen, that's the
problem is that the AR fifteen makes it easy to
do swaps, you know, just swap out you know, uppers,
and then of course the eventually you're gonna end up
with a at AR ten lower. You know that. And
now you're going to start playing with you know, Creed
Moores and other things, and it's you know, you're off
(20:35):
of the races at this point.
Speaker 11 (20:38):
So what I hear you saying, and this is the
impulse buyer in me, what I hear you saying is
I need to have an upper in four to fifty Legend,
three fifty bush Master, sorry for four fifty bush Master,
three fifty Legend and six five Grendel. Just have three
separate uppers and just pick one and go.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I like the way you think. I think you've got
this thing figured out, and that'll get you started. You know.
It's a good start, as we like to say. And
then of course you're going to say, well, why would
I be swapping this out? I need some more luwers,
so we have complete rifles for all of these. There
is no end to this, you'd understand.
Speaker 11 (21:12):
Right, Building is fun.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
There you go, Well, look after you get it built
and after you shoot it, we would love to get
a range report on which one you picked and how
it works for you.
Speaker 11 (21:22):
Okay, all right, it sounds good.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Thanks thanks to call. I appreciate that it is one
of those deals. I mean. The AR fifteen is a
kit gun, and you just you can pull uppers off,
you can swap barrels out, you can change parts out,
and for an awful lot of people, the building the
gun is a big part of the attraction of it.
(21:46):
It's like, yeah, Okay, I don't really need that, but
it'd be fun to build that, and I'll use this buffer,
and I'll use this, and I'll that's fine, and we
end up with all these parts. And the thing is,
once you get used to it and you're good at it,
you can build guns in a hurry. Man less than
an hour put a gun together. So you know, there
you go. Why wouldn't you, right eight six' six talk?
(22:07):
Gun what are you? Shooting what are you? Building, yeah
there's a lot going on out In colorado right. Now of,
course the legislature has been, busy, busy busy with try
to pass maybe passing gun, control, loss gun, bands gun,
(22:30):
restrictions restrictions on, magazines restrictions on, age limits of when
you can own a. Gun michael wants to talk about.
That he's out In, denver right there in the middle
of all of. It, Hey, MICHAEL i appreciate you calling.
In what are you seeing on the ground? There and
what are your questions for?
Speaker 12 (22:44):
Me, Yeah, HI i am in. Progression this is really
a distinct honor to speak with. You i'm a millennial
AND i really appreciate your showing what you. Do so
thank you so, much first of, all and, yeah, no
to answer your. Question you, know SO i wanted to
actually talk a little bit about this bill in The
Colorado senate right now that what it. Does it's requiring
(23:07):
in order for people to buy certain guns with extended,
magazines that you have to take a training course to
be able to purchase those. Guns and, additionally you have
to have a criminal background. Check and you, know certain
proponents of the bill argue the reason basically they're proposing
this is that so people that kind of have this
(23:28):
spur of the moment mental health break cannot just go
on a whim and buy one of these guns with
a high round capacity. Magazine it would slow that process down,
Essentially and OBVIOUSLY i, think you, know people that are
committed to getting their hands on these are going to get,
them but it would slow that process. Down and you,
know just looking at it from a constitutional, STANDPOINT i
(23:51):
was kind of just interested in getting your. Thoughts you
think that this is kind of trampling on the right
to bear, arms like adding these protections or to do
this is kind of a good.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Thing, WELL i wouldn't call them. PROTECTIONS i would call them.
Restrictions so we've got that thing going. On we have
tried a number in THE us at the, local, state
and federal. Level we have tried magazine capacity. Bans we
had a ten year ban nationally in the whole country
(24:22):
on standard capacity. Magazines anything over ten rounds is a
standard capacity, magazine it's not large. Capacity we had absolutely
no impact on. Crime crime did not go down where
we ban the saale. Ofies here's a question for. You
they're saying that you would have to before you could buy,
(24:43):
these you'd have to take a, class you have to take,
training and you're saying that that would slow the process.
Down wouldn't it make sense then if the idea is
that we're going to stop the impulse buy or slow
the process down or have a cooling off. Period wouldn't
it make sense then to, say but that doesn't apply
(25:03):
to anybody who already owns a, gun because that person
doesn't need a cooling off. Periods he or she already
has a. Gun so that person should be able to
just buy them without any kind of restrictions or. Delays
don't you, think, well that's.
Speaker 12 (25:15):
That's a good. POINT i think when you look at
like the majority of mass, SHOOTINGS i think a lot of,
times you, know the majority of, cases they don't already
own they don't already own, guns and so you, know
if they have a spur of the moment, thing they
can go get. One but then you are also look
at you, know we have a situation back in twenty
(25:36):
twelve here In colorado where you, know The aurora movie theater,
shooting where this individual collected these firearms over a period
OF i think it was like four or five, Months
and SO i think it's like kind of a kind
of a weird situation, that you, know we need to
(25:57):
do something about. IT i don't think there's any question about.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, wait we need to
do something. About what.
Speaker 12 (26:06):
About how easily accessible it is to get these Not
i'm not talking about, handguns but you know ars to
have like one hundred round.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Capacities, okay you tell me how how easy is it
to get? Them have you ever bought?
Speaker 12 (26:23):
ONE i have, not BUT i know that they're you
know under the, constitution you know you're able to buy
one the same day you if you want to go get.
One SO i think that do you do you?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Know do you know what's involved in buying? One do
you know.
Speaker 12 (26:41):
That you have me there's a criminal background?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Check do you know that you have to get the
approval of THE fbi to buy?
Speaker 12 (26:48):
ONE i know there's a criminal background, check AND i
think that's what you're referring.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
To but, yes you have to get you, individually have
to get the approval of THE fbi before you can
buy one every single. Time that's current.
Speaker 12 (27:06):
Law, YEAH i haven't ever tried to buy, One but
that's How how is?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
That how is? That how is that easy? Access?
Speaker 12 (27:16):
WELL i DON'T i think. That, well you just look
at the cases where you, know people in these situations
have gotten their hands on these guns kind of, easily
AND i think it kind of speaks for. Itself but, no, no,
no it does.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Not, no, no, no, no it does not speak for.
Itself you have to speak for. It you need to
make the case here Because i'm disagreeing with almost everything you're.
Saying But i'm waiting for you to make a coach
at point, here saying that it speaks for itself is
waving her hand and making it all go away and
saying you're not going to defend your. POSITION i need
for you to tell me what you. Think why you
(27:49):
think any of these people who want to murder people
are going to be dissuaded from doing that because they
have to wait a day or two or.
Speaker 12 (27:55):
Three, well that's a good And i'm not necessarily disagreeing with.
You i'm just SAYING i think that when you, say,
well just in, general to say, okay well you have
to have a training course to buy any AR i
don't think that's a bad thing as far as it
being a. DETERRENT i, mean you, KNOW i think it
(28:15):
could be considered a, deterrent but just in, GENERAL i
don't think that's a.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
NEGATIVE i gotta ask, you would you be in favor
of required government training before you could post something online
to exercise Your First? Amendment?
Speaker 12 (28:31):
RIGHT i think that's a little bit, different how how
than having a gun that's capable.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Felling you, know both of these are guaranteed rights under The,
constitution where The constitution says the government shall not infringe these,
rights and you're saying the government can infringe On Second.
Amendment they require a waiting period or a background. Check
And i'm, saying, well if it's good enough for The Second,
amendment it's good enough for The First. Amendment and you're rejecting,
(28:58):
that And i'm not getting.
Speaker 12 (28:59):
One when The founding fathers were around and wrote these,
rules they didn't have air fifteens that were capable of
taking out one hundred people in ten, minutes you, know five.
MINUTES i, MEAN i don't think they envisioned that when
they wrote these kind of you, know protections in The
constitution for.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
That sure they, Did sure they. Did wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait of course they. Did there were full automatic guns
at the time that they wrote The. Constitution are you
aware of?
Speaker 12 (29:23):
That not to the extent of what's around.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Today, well we didn't have the internet, either so should
we ban the? Internet come, on, Yeah advances and technology
do not negate our constitutional. Rights The Supreme court has
actually said that you cannot, say, well, gee we have
more advanced guns, now and therefore we can ban. Them
they have rejected that out of. Hand so that's completely
(29:50):
off the. Table so you got to go back To,
okay here's a question for. You do you know that
most mass shootings in THE us involve handguns and not a.
Fifteens are you even aware that more people are murdered
with fist and feet than they are with semi automatic.
Speaker 12 (30:06):
Rifles we're talking about The air fifteenth AND i Get.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I'm i'm talking About i'm talking about, Now i'm talking about,
crime and you're talking about, crime And i'm telling you
that more, people according to THE, fbi are murdered with
fist and feet than they are WITH ar. Fifteens, WELL i, mean.
Speaker 12 (30:22):
You can kill someone with a, break you can kill
someone with thank. You BUT i think it's just, like,
then why are.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You focusing on one? Instrumentality that's a good.
Speaker 12 (30:35):
POINT i mean you got?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Me, yeah, okay LOOK i got a run of the break.
HERE i appreciate you you going along with. Me i'm
just going to SUGGEST i think you need to give
this the more thought and find different sources of information
BECAUSE i think you're being fed a lot of crap
from what you're listening to right, now what you're paying attention.
To you need to rethink. This understand that more people
(30:59):
are murdered by with fists and feet than they are
WITH ar. Fifteens you're being fed, propaganda my.
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Realize your entry to our world is a. Clickaway at
gun talk dot, com stay informed and entertained on the
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(32:33):
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all visit gun talk dot. Com that's gun talk dot.
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Speaker 16 (33:13):
Com, hey, Tom my name Is Zach.
Speaker 17 (33:23):
Chase i've been listening for about eight. YEARS i have
gleaned so much information from your Show Amo, guns shooting carrying.
LAWS i build experimental Airplanes. SATURDAYS i listened to you
On iHeartRadio in the shop While i'm. WORKING i hope
thirty years went by, quick AND i hope the next
thirty goes by really.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Slow all?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Right that with, you we're open. Lines if there's something
you want to talk, about by all, means dive. IN
i appreciate our last. CALLER i appreciate them diving. In
we were short on, time And I'M i KNOW i
have to kind of jump into times and, say, look
you got to make your. Point you got to get your.
Point you can't just throw something out there and, say,
well of course we all know that air fifteen is a. Problem,
no we. Don't And i'm not gonna let people just
(34:10):
throw that out and then move on to the next.
Thing i'm going to challenge those kind of. Statements most
people weren't said it's, easy you, know the easy access of.
Guns it's easy to get An air, Fifteen AND i,
said what have you ever bought? One? Well, no do
you know what's? Involved? No do you know that THE
fbi has to okay every single. PURCHASE i did not know.
(34:30):
That and then here's there's an interesting, one the so
called cooling off. Period but we're going to delay the
purchase for a day or a week or ten. Days,
logically that would not apply to anybody who already owns a,
(34:51):
gun would, It because if you've already own a, gun
you don't really need a ruling off period before you
buy your next. Gun as an idea to, say, well you,
know if you would calm, down maybe you won't be
murdering someone with your new, gun it's idiotic on the
(35:14):
face of. It and when you really start diving into.
It if you look at who proposes measures like, that
it's groups and individuals who don't want you or anyone
to own a gun. Period how many barriers can they
put in your? Way how many financial hurdles can they
(35:39):
make you have to leap? Over how many delays in
terms of like a carry, PERMIT i, mean believe or.
Not in some places you're waiting a year or more
before they will process your. Application not because they have,
to not because the system works that, slowly only because
they want. You they wanted to be so difficult that
(36:02):
you don't even apply in the first. Place that's really
all it. Is let's go line. Five jeff's with us
In North. Carolina, Hello, jeff thebe are you doing?
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Today?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
CAPTAIN i am. GOOD i take it to you kind.
Of we're listening to that.
Speaker 10 (36:19):
Conversation oh, MAN i have to assume this guy has
never held a gun in his hand his whole. Life you,
KNOW i grew up on a. Farm we grew, up
we had guns at an early, age and my dad
was the best teacher you could ever, have and if
you didn't listen to, him he tear into. You but
my point about that guy's. Conversation you brought up some
(36:41):
of that about you, know we have A First amendment
of the freedom of, speech AND i, said you, know
does he even realize how many times pedophiles are on the?
Internet dragon for? Children as he realized how many terrorists are,
recruited and how many killings they do off the. Internet
and yet you know everybody wants. It, nah, no we
(37:04):
can't mess with. That we can't mess with. That, right
you have to throw off The Second. Amendment you got
more death off the internet and you do off the
guns in this.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Country, WELL i find you that a lot a lot
of people want to restrict things that don't affect. Them you,
KNOW i don't own one of, these AND i don't
think you should. Either AND i, say, okay, well let's
go to things that you do, own the things that
you do. Use let's have a cooling off period before
you can buy a phone or a, computer because that's
The First amendment. Issue oh, yeah we can't do. That
(37:32):
well why, Not, well we just. Can't and it's, like,
okay you're not making any sense, here and then he
throws out stuff, like, well of, course it's just a
given that you, know a f fifteen is a problem and, go, well, actually,
no when you look at the, numbers a lot more
people are killed with fists and feet than they. Are of,
course handguns are the primary tool used in terms of
firearms to murder, people and yet they want to focus
(37:55):
on one small aspect of firearms out. There so it's
JUST i, mean it's where we, are And, JEFF i
appreciate the call. It UNFORTUNATELY i kind of let him run,
along So i've squeezed us out on being able to
talk a lot about that in this little part of the.
Segment it. Is it is an ongoing, issue and we
still have a lot of states who are passing bans
(38:19):
on commonly owned. Guns and, frankly Tomorrow, monday we will find.
OUT i hope that The Supreme court is going to
take the case out Of maryland where they have banned
commonly owned semi automatic, firearms and with any lot For
Supreme court's going to come back and, say, hey we
(38:40):
really meant. It In heller and In bruin you cannot
ban guns that are in common use for lawful purposes
and put a stop to. This put a stop to.
This if we, don't Then i'm not sure the second
amendment actually means anything at. All just think about that
(39:08):
caller From. Colorado he's not as good idea to have
more strict restrictions on guns and, gunbuying and he. Did
he said it's. EVIDENT i think maybe a couple of,
times you, know and using the argument it's evident and
then throw out things is a way of, saying this
is WHAT i, believe BUT i don't really want to
have to support, it SO i will shut down your
(39:32):
objection to this by saying it's evident or it's. Obvious
it's a. Tactic it may not even know that's what he's,
doing but that's what's going on. There let's go talk
With brady In Big, Spring texas online For, brady talk to.
Speaker 10 (39:44):
Me, hey how's it?
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Going?
Speaker 10 (39:46):
Tom?
Speaker 12 (39:47):
Great good there?
Speaker 18 (39:49):
Here hey, Man i'm actually on my way To colorado
today AND i was wondering as far as carrying in
gun laws In. Colorado AM i enable to carry My?
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Probably BUT i would suggest you make it a point
to go to the website handgun law dot. Us that's
singular handgun law dot us and look up you have
A texas carry? PERMIT i take? It, Yes, OKAY i
think that is AND i don't know for. SURE i
(40:23):
would have to go, check BUT i think that you
Have russell prosty In, colorado but you better. Check THEY
i think have maybe magazine capacity, limits so you may
have to adhere to. That you simply have. To we
have to check on this when we travel state to,
state because you go into a state where you've got
your regular carry gun In, texas and you go in
(40:44):
there and they, go, oh you got seventeen rounds in your. Gun,
oh you're only allowed to have fifteen or twelve or
ten or whatever it is in the, state and you
had no. Idea SO i make it a point to
actually read through the restrictions and the information on Handgun
law DOT. Us every TIME i travel with my pistol ten.
Speaker 18 (41:00):
Four i'll have to hop on there in my next.
Stop AND i just wanted to touch base really fast
on the previous. TOPIC i fully agree with you one hundred.
Speaker 12 (41:10):
Percent and it's.
Speaker 18 (41:12):
Not so much fact of anybody who can go in
a gun storing five. Gun you, know those background checks
are there for a, reason and really it's it's amazing
to me how that's overlooked by today in.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Media, well it's a great. Point we do have the background,
checks and we have restrictions on who can own guns
and who can buy. Guns you, know and if you're
a convicted felon right, now you can't own a. Gun
and there are several other categories where you can't own
or buy a. Gun. Now having said all, that, LOOK
i appreciate the. Call having said all, THAT i would
(41:46):
love to get rid of background checks. Altogether i'd love
to get rid of THE. Atf i'd love to get
rid of the forty four seventy. Three i'd love to
get rid of federal firearm, licenses not gun. Stores but
REMEMBER i grew up in a time before or gun
stores had to have a Federal firem's, license and any hardware,
store any gas station could sell a. Gun and there
(42:07):
is no such thing as a background. Check there's no
such thing as forty four seventy threes and filling out a,
form and we didn't have any problems these restrictions on,
us these, delays this book, keeping all of this bureaucracy
has not made us any. Safer it has simply made
the bureaucracy bigger and has built illegal national registries of gun.
(42:31):
Owners it, is by the, way against the law for
the federal government to have a registry of gun. Owners,
actually there are two different laws that prohibit, that and
yet they do. It we know THE atf is doing.
It maybe Cash buttel can go in there and take
care of. That maybe we'll. See but if you said
(42:53):
what WOULD i want to, Have i'd want to Have
no such thing as a federal farm's, License no such
thing as a background, check no such thing as a
forty four to seventy, three no such thing as waiting,
periods no such thing as carry. Permits because keeping bear
arms means bare means to. Carry it's A Second amendment.
(43:14):
Right you shouldn't have to, say, mother MAY i? In
and please MAY i, in do a delay and have
to take a class and pay big money to get
a permit to carry a gun when it's already guaranteed
right under The Second. Amendment it's really as simple as. That,
hey when we come, back a big gun company is
making cool guns and getting even bigger
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