September 1, 2024 • 43 mins
In This Hour:
-- Changing and adding parts and accessories for AR-15 rifles and pistols. Mark Keller, of B5 Systems, explains what's possible.
-- A Federal District judge in Kansas rules that a ban on machineguns violated the Second Amendment.
-- How to carry a gun concelaed when wearing bib overalls. There are some good options.
Gun Talk 09.01.24 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Changing and adding parts and accessories for AR-15 rifles and pistols. Mark Keller, of B5 Systems, explains what's possible.
-- A Federal District judge in Kansas rules that a ban on machineguns violated the Second Amendment.
-- How to carry a gun concelaed when wearing bib overalls. There are some good options.
Gun Talk 09.01.24 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. Tom Gresham here if
you want to join us, it's pretty darn easy. Eight
sixty six talk gun or Tom Talk Gun. What are
the things that's great about Well, I don't know AR
fifteen particularly, but just guns in general.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
It's tinkering.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
We've been tinkering with guns since people were building them
on the kitchen table, you know, fifty years ago. More
than that wildcatting cartridge.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Is all of that.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
But now with the I call them the erector set
system that we have with ars and a lot of
other guns, it's just fun to play with the stuff.
And joining me right now is Mark Keller. He is
the executive vice president of B five Systems. Mark, welcome,
and what is B five?
Speaker 4 (00:51):
B five Systems were a manufacturer located southwest Ohio. A
lot of people know who we are, and we're very
popular on their there's other people that Hey, B five,
who's that haven't haven't heard of, you guys. So B
five is really kind of the third iteration of a
family business that was historically focused on military spare parts,
(01:12):
government contracts, making all kinds of widgets for our fighting
men and women. So we've transitioned really since twenty ten
twenty eleven and made a big push into the firearm space.
So that said, you know, we've not abandoned our roots
and supplying parts to the military. We continue to do so,
(01:36):
we increasingly continue to do so with our with our
firearm parts. But in addition to that, we supply over
seventy OEMs at this point, so pretty much every major
fire manufacturers using our parts, particularly our furniture stocks, grips,
et cetera, in some form or fashion. And then we
have increasingly a commercial presence, so you know, a few
(01:58):
years ago, you might go in to a gun store
and not see our products. Now I would say majority
of gun stores do have our products. Definitely, the larger
online retailers and major distributors, et cetera are carrying carrying us.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So even if you haven't purchased a B five Systems
product from a store, if you have an AR there's
a decent chance you actually are using B five Systems
stuff on your gun.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Yeah, that's that's absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
So, you know, again we're still relatively new to the
commercial fireing space. But that said, you know, we have
over a million butt stocks in the market between between
all those you know, so we're not we're not exactly
a little guy. We're not the biggest yet, but we're
not we're not exactly small on it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
How does it work in terms of informing what you
do now or helping with your product to have that
background of supplying parts to the military and how you're
supplying them on the commercial market, on the private market,
the stuff we buy when we go into a store.
How do we benefit from your experience with the military.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
The short answer is, as a company, we want to
ensure that we give the best quality parts to our
fighting men and women. Our products are used by every
service branch uh in in the military. We have close
relationships with end users, you know, from from Guys Care
and our guns in the harm you know, our gun
(03:25):
parts into Harm's way up to program offices, and so
we have a really unique insight and look into what
the military wants, both from program side to boots on
the ground. Right if you if you will, and we
design all of our products, you know, even if it's
even you know, most of our products are focused and
originally intended or designed for military use, going on military guns.
(03:49):
But we take that same level of commitment knowing that
our product is going on a gun that's going to
be carried on duty in harm's way to everything that
we do, every product that we that we make. So
you know, we try to instill in our employees that
we have to be write each time every time. And
you know, manufacturing is not always exciting.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Now, you know, but but but there's the heart of
what you do.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
It's exactly right, and it's extremely important that our our
parts are right, that we're putting out the best quality
because guns are getting carried in the harms way, and
you know, have tons of examples, uh, from service members
that have said, hey, man, I carried you know, I
carried in them for with you know, with as mod
on it. You know, I want to I want to
(04:36):
recreate that, I want to build a clone gun what
I carried. And so the same quality goes into all
of our commercial it's it's you know, what we supply
to the military now. So we just got a national
you know stock number for the Bravo stock that's starting
to go on a lot in fors m for a ones,
our collapsible precision stock is going on in one tens.
(04:57):
That same exact product that we're delivering to our military customers.
That's the exact same product, the exact same material, the
exact same design, uh, that you're going that you're going
to buy off the shelf at a at a commercial store.
So we don't we don't cherry pick or those guys
get you know, get something a little bit better.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Or we we weaken or we change.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
The the the commercial product you're you're getting the exact
same the exact same product. Frankly that the only difference is,
you know, it's a different package. It's it's a retail
package versus you know, a military type of type of package.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Okay, all right, we're talking with Mark Keller from B
five Systems B five systems dot com.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
How do you go about deciding what to make next?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
That's a great question. You know, there's there's no shortage
of ideas number number one. So you know, have a
very very long list of items in the queue of
what we what we want to do and it's it's
something that we you know, frankly challenge ourselves a little
bit about hey, what do we want to do?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
So you know, oftentimes in a business there's there's limitations
of time and money. You know, you can't do everything
because those are both finite resources. You have the balance
of you know, the application of hey are we going
to do this for you know, this this program for
the military? Are we going to do this this project
for the commercial? So most of our projects frankly kick
(06:18):
off with a military ask or it's something that we
have wanted to do that may not make sense, you know.
So we may have some ideas on the drawing board
that frankly sit for for a long time and you know,
unlesser until we have an opportunity or a larger customer
to say, hey, we would be really interested in this,
then we would do that. And so again, some of
(06:39):
that stuff comes from comes from direct end users. You know,
we have a machine gun stock that we designed for
the military, so no no commercial application, right right, So
you know, so the.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Military is that we don't want this, Maybe we would
hope fingers crossed.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
You know, I was just on the phone with another
industry guy and I I have a legal background and
I am extremely extremely excited with the ruling out of Kansas.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
So well, we'll see what happens there.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Again, the courts do not move swiftly, so it's going
to take a little time. D O J and a
t F is in a very interesting position right now.
How they respond to that move, Well, let me in
your background.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You're having a legal background and making a gun parts
of being involved in this space. It is and I'm
a switch on you here. We're at a unique place
in time with I mean we are. I would almost
say we're at a tipping point of things changing radically
in favor of the Second Amendment.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Absolutely agree with that. We have a judiciary that are
you know, transitioning back in my opinion, to the you know,
the original tent of our founding fathers of you know,
the two A means this, this is why this is here.
And yes, as a as a citizen, you're allowed to
(07:55):
have this stuff. And I think that's I think that's fantastic.
You know, we are again, you know, we supply a
lot of a lot of a lot of government, but
we supply average the average consumer and love it. You know,
we we were in a unique position to be able
to do both and support both. And I hope, I
hope this case is expounded upon. And you know, SBRs
(08:15):
and suppressors and machine guns we can we can purchase
just like like any any other type on fire Boy.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
That would be terrific.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Now your your stocks and your handguards and accessories and grips,
they're availed in stores, but also you can buy them
directly off your website at B five Systems dot com.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Yeah, that's that's exactly right.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
So you know, everything that we uh, that we we
offer to our resellers, you can you can purchase from
from us, uh, you know, every now and then we'll
do something limited or exclusive either for those customers or hey,
you can only get this item from from B five
Systems dot dot com. So yeah, we we try to
keep everything in stock. We try to ship the same
(08:56):
same day or next day, depending on the time the
order is is play. But yeah, we we've got a
very busy shipping department that does a nice job of
getting our product out.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
All right, final question for you, how is business these
days in terms of people wanting to accessorize or equip
or even just build ours.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Overall, the commercial market is not super strong, as most
people know.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
You know, there's a lot of challenges.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
You know, AMO is expensive, the economy is terrible, as
we all know. For us, we're we're growing. You know,
we're probably one of the few companies that is, you know,
actively growing right now on every channel, our OEMs or
our retail, our military stuff. So very fortunate, very blessed
to be in that position. The nice thing about what
(09:40):
we do, because you know, we don't make guns, we
make accessories. We cater and serve it to a lot
of the industry. The nice thing is that we had
record gun sales the last the last few years. So
you know, what we've seen is people go out because
of twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, you know, the gun
run there. We've seen a a lot of people that, hey,
(10:00):
they just wanted to get an AR, any any kind
of AR and some of those people just.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
Put it in a closet, didn't do anything with it.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
A lot of those a lot of those customers say, hey,
this is my first one, but but I like this.
You know, I grew up shooting as a kid, or
or maybe this is my first foray into exercising my
Second Amendment rights. But I have it, and I like it,
and I want to get another one, or I want
to buy a nicer one, or you know, I bought
a pretty decent gun, but let me let me upgrade
(10:28):
it on the spot.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
What they want to do. They want to take her
with it.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
They want to acceptorize, they want to you know, jazz
it up, and you know, and the.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Other part of it is it's easy to do all.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
That absolutely absolutely, you know, from a manufacturing standpoint, a
consumer standpoint. You know, the AR fifteen is standardized, so
you know, for the most part, it's it's plug and play.
You know, you can, you know, pop two pins and
put a new upper on. You can change out a
rail a barrel if you like the tanker guy or
gal uh. You know, if you have the slightest inclination
(10:59):
and mechanic cool aptitude, super easy to do, super super
easy to do. That said, you know, we have a
have a good customer service team that that fields all
kinds of questions and you know, a lot of a
lot of first time buyers and that's okay, Well we'll
walk through, you know, we'll walk people through how to upgrade,
how to, how to you know, take a stock on,
put it off, you know, how to just basic things
(11:20):
that they may not know, and we're happy to happy
to share that information. You know, at the end of
the day, we want our product in the hands of
good guys, whether that's you know, people carrying a gun
professionally for for work, military law enforcement. But we want
you know, our armed citizens, our good citizens, and we're
very proud that people are choosing to use B five
(11:40):
Systems products over some of our competitors.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Hey, Mark, I appreciate your time. Bfive Systems dot com.
Congratulations on the growth and keep us posted on the
new stuff you guys are bringing.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Out absolutely, Tom appreciate the time.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
All right, you take care of eight six six Talk
Gun or Tom Talk Gun Gun Talk.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Will be right back.
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Speaker 2 (14:15):
Alright back with you a little bit later the show,
We're going to have an interview with a lady who
had a horrifying encounter for the murderer and how it
affected her in terms of thinking about carrying a gun
women protecting themselves. But first I want to just tag
onto Mark's comment in the middle of that interview. He
(14:36):
mentioned what had happened in Kansas, and I haven't gotten
to that yet, so I need to get to that.
A federal judge in Kansas this past week throughout a
machine gun possession charge, saying that machine guns are bearable
arms as in keeping bear and they are covered by
(14:57):
the Second Amendment, and bands on the private ownership of
machine guns or restrictions on the likely are unconstitutional that
would apply to block switches.
Speaker 10 (15:11):
Oooo.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
I am sure the US attorney is going to.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Appeal this, but this is a US federal district judge
who decided that machine guns are bearable arms and they
are covered by the Second Amendment. I have no problem
with that. The reality is, oh, look, let's think about this.
Why was the Second Amendment written. We just come out
of this terrible war. We wanted to have a very
(15:38):
small federal government. We wanted the people to have protection
against their own government should to get out of control.
The idea was and should still be that the people
should be able to have any bearable arms that the
military has, yes, including machine guns. We'll see where this
thing ends up. That's going to be fascinating, and sometimes
(16:00):
maybe it's just pushing so far out it stretches that
rubber band out and it ends up coming back and
we don't get that. But in the process it stretched
the rubber band out, so now it's still a little
bit further out. So our rights are a little bit better.
They're a little bit more expansive than they were. All right,
(16:22):
let's go to the phones. Mike's with us out of
Oregon on line four. Mike, this is an interesting question.
Speaker 11 (16:28):
Lay it on me, Yes, sir, I want to pick
your brain just a little bit. I have a Springfield
health cat. I usually carry it ankle holster type thing,
but I wear bib overalls all the time, and I'd
like to carry it around my hip, and any ideas
on what kind of a holster that I could wear
(16:49):
that still be concealable, you know, with bib overall.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Right, okay, Well the cool part is while bib overalls
prevent you from wearing a belt and holster, that actually
provides you with some other options. Obviously. I mean you
figured out the ankle carry. Another one would be one
of those pocket holsters could go on in your right
hip pocket or even right front pocket where you could
(17:14):
slide the gun and a hell cat would fit in
one of those. But there's another one I was gonna
throw at you, the idea of a belly band. Or
there's one called smart carry, and you go to smartcarry
dot com. I've had one of those for twenty plus years,
and think of it is kind of like a pouch,
and you would just simply put it around your waist
(17:36):
over your shirt but under the bib overall, and you
would simply reach inside the bib overall. The gun basically
is hanging I want to say, like almost over your crotch,
but inside the overalls, and if you slid your hand
inside the overall, bang or you got your hand. We
don't want to bang going off. But right there you've
(17:57):
got your hand on the gun and it comes down out.
It is comfortable, and it's in a place that people
don't stare, they don't look. I would offer that's a
very real possibility, a good option for you.
Speaker 11 (18:12):
And you call that Mark Carrie.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
No, no, smart sma art smart Carry, Oh smart Yeah,
if you go.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
To smartcarriy dot com you'll see what I'm talking about.
It's one of those that like ten seconds then you
look at you go, oh, I got it.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I understand that concept. Either it's going to work or not.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
But I would offer that's a real decent option for
you when you're wearing your overalls.
Speaker 11 (18:36):
Well, I do that all the time. So I'll give
that a shot and see what.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
They're well, do this if you if you get smart
Carry or however you end up with it, give me
a call back and let me know how it worked out,
because we'd like to get these follow up range reports.
Speaker 11 (18:49):
Okay, okay, I'll do it, all.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Right, I appreciate that. Good luck with that. All right?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
What's on your mind? What questions do you have about
how to carry?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
What to carry? Are you where to carry?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Here's a question for you when do you carry. I
realize I need to get this out. I realize that
not everybody's gun centric as I am. I mean, I'm
into guns, and a lot of people have a gun
and they carry sometimes and they're not going to buy
(19:23):
a lot of holsters and try different things. They're not
going to go to a gun school and they're not
going you know, it's a lot of stuff they're not
going to do because that's just not their thing.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Okay, I got it.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
But at the same time, can I suggest that maybe
changing your attitude, if that's where you are, changing your
attitude just a little bit. You don't have to become,
you know, all gun crazy like I am. Where I
like different gun I like to try different stuff, but
think of it not so much as a gun, but
as a parachute or as a fire extinguisher or as
(19:55):
a life saving device. And you need to at least
to be conversant with it and competent with it, and
need to master the.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Tool and with a firearm.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
While it is simple on one level, where you pick
it up, you pull the trigger, it goes bang, hopefully
you're pointed it in the right place, there's more to
it than that, and there's a lot to the idea
of having a gun for self defense. You do not
have to go buy a whole bunch of guns and
whole bunch of holsters and all that. But I would
(20:31):
offer that maybe you should make a commitment to say, Okay,
this is an important thing. I have made the commitment
to buy a gun for self defense to protect me
and to protect my family. What is the minimum level?
It's an interesting question. What's the minimum level of experience, training, practice,
(20:52):
gear awareness that you should achieve in order to be comfortable,
competent and safe. A one or two day class, I
would suggest, would be very worthwhile, to the point of
probably changing how you think about a lot of things,
also changing your level of comfort, because honestly, and let
(21:17):
me just say this, if you are carrying every day
or occasionally and it makes you uncomfortable to carry, that's
not a good place to be. It needs to be comfortable, like, okay,
it's like carrying a wallet. I just do this all
the time. And you need to get to that place
(21:38):
because until you get there, you're not really competent. You're
not really going to be good on drawing or your
awareness or your situation. You're just kind of uncomfortable with it.
You need to move through that and get to a
different place. And the only way you do that is
to make a firm decision that this is my next
(22:01):
course of action. I will take a class, I will practice,
I will become confident.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
I owe it to myself, I owe it to.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
My family, and then you simply do it if it
really is as easy as that. All right, we're back
with you. I'm Time Gresham and this is gun Talk.
You can check us out over on Twitter now x.
I am at gun talk over there you can follow me.
(22:31):
Of course. All the gun talk media, the cold properties,
everything is available at gun talk dot com. We have
several TV shows we produce all about guns and all
about shooting.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
We do a number of videos.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Working with the various manufacturers, we get to try out
an awful lot of the new guns before they come out,
so on the day they're announced, we have our videos
where we've been out of the range. Speaking of ranges,
we have the Range Ready Studios down in Louisiana, about
halfway between bat Rouge in New Orleans. We don't do
a lot of classes there. We're not really a school,
(23:04):
but we offer some classes throughout the year. They're very
high grade, quite unique some of them, I mean some
of them. You take the class and you end up
working with manufacturers and you come away with the gun
as part of the class. If you go to Rangeready
Studios dot com, you can get a look at the
upcoming classes and they sell out quickly. Really, what you
(23:28):
ought to do, if you're interested seriously is sign up
on the newsletter there. That way you get an advanced
warning on classes that are coming, because in some cases,
by the time it gets posted to the website, they're
already sold out from people who are on the newsletter.
So rains Ready Studios dot com. All right, let's go
(23:49):
to Marian, Idaho. That's just down the road from here.
Kevin's with us online.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Five. Hey Kevin, you're on Gun Talk. What's up? Hey?
Speaker 11 (23:57):
Tom?
Speaker 12 (23:57):
I always listening to your program.
Speaker 11 (23:59):
I love it.
Speaker 12 (24:00):
And I went to dinner last night with a friend
of mine and he's almost seventy and he wants to
go hunting. But he said, you know, in his young
in his early twenties, he got in trouble, got a felony,
was not violent. He bought some stolen equipment and it
turned out to be stolen anyways, it's a felony. And
(24:20):
so he asked me, what is my opinion of him
owning a gun, and I said, I have no problems
with him owning a gun because it's a non violent offense.
And I was kind of wondering what your opinion was.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I think the federal law that prohibits you from owning
a gun because you have a past felony conviction is
unconstitutional and probably will get struck down at some point.
It's already happened in some cases, so I think that's
going to end up going away, and they may draw
fine line and say, okay, it wasn't a violent felony
(24:53):
versus like a tax evasion felaty kind of a thing,
or it got caught with some stolen equipment, or you know,
in some places, you were smoking weed when you were
nineteen years old forty years ago, and now you've got
a felony conviction. There's no reason for you to have
lost your second amm of rights over that. And I
think it's going to go away. I hope it is. Unfortunately,
(25:15):
maybe not in his lifetime, but who knows, it might
be next year.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
But I look, I start from a position that there
should be no gun control laws, none, zero, none, whatsoever.
And so when you work from that, you go, Okay, Now,
explain to me why you should lose your rights because
you were convicted, You served your time, it's over, forget
about it.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Why should you have that.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
It's like the prohibition against being able to own a
gun because you have a misdemeanor conviction for domestic violence.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Why in the world should you lose.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Your constitutional rights over a misdemeanor conviction. And yes, domestic
violence can be terrible, no doubt about it. But some
of those cases way back, a lawyer said, look, just
plead it out. It's a fifty dollars fine, he said.
She said, it's not a big deal. And then after
that happened, they passed the Lautenberg Amendment, and that was
(26:16):
the one that said you lose your rights forever for
a misdemeanor conviction on domestic violence. A lot of police
officers lost their jobs over that because they couldn't carry
a gun anymore. A lot of people lost the ability
to have guns because they just pled it out because
a lawyer said it just make it go away. It's
not a big deal. Just say yes to that thing.
(26:37):
It's just a misdemeanor anyway, r I worried about it.
So No, you should not lose your rights to own
a gun, to carry a gun for these convictions that
are in the past. If you want to draw a
fine line on violent felonies, we could discuss that, but
I don't think and Jim's point out expungement maybe a possibility.
(26:58):
There may be a way for him to get his
rights back. That's just something for him to take a
look at. Let's rab Robert on Too out of Oklahoma. Hey, Robert,
this looks very interesting. Talk to me about trigger control.
Speaker 10 (27:11):
Well, I was listening back at the fourth of July
show as you were talking to Ted Nugents and something
about the bow release or whatever would help improve both
your trigger pull. And I'm in a case where I
want to be able to help use that to help
also build up my strength back. I may never bow hunt,
(27:35):
but I would like to get into police shooting and
also powers. But I'm in a let's just call rehabilitation
process at this point physically so. But it ticked my
interest in which I wanted to find out where's a
good place to start knowing that I'm going to be
(27:58):
weak to start with and build strength, or it is
a good place to start with a bow. That's where
I can in terms of well.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, let me ask you this, Uh, is your real
interest in shooting a bow or is your real interest
in shooting a gun.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
At this point?
Speaker 10 (28:17):
Uh?
Speaker 11 (28:17):
That's it's hard to say because it's both.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Now okay, well all right, I was going to say,
because you could just start with work on trigger control
by shooting a gun, and you could even do that
with an air gun. With an appellate gun, it has
no recoil. If physical strength is and issues for shooting
right now, you could What I'm saying is, if you're
really wanting to get into shooting the gun, I would
(28:42):
probably skip the idea of the bow. If you're saying, okay,
but I want to shoot on to do archery, then yes,
a compound bow with a low pull weight might be
a good way to go. If you're going to do that,
I would very much recommend you find a an archery
specific shop, and there are these small shops that are
(29:04):
set up for archeries where they can get you the
right kind of bow, the right kind of release, and
give you some lessons to get you started. I mean,
archery is great fun. I love shooting archie. I just
don't do it much anymore because I'm kind of focused
on the guns these days. But you know, I bow
hunted a good bit when I was younger, So nothing
wrong with that and nothing wrong with doing both of them.
(29:25):
But I'm just going to say, if you're using the
archery as a way to get into shooting a gun
with trigger control, you could possibly just go ahead and
start with an air gun or something and go that way.
So I don't know if that works for you, but
whichever way you go, let us know what you end
up doing, and.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
We would like to get a callback and a follow
up on that.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I appreciate the call, sir, all right eight six '
six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
That's me Tom.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Check us out at gun talk dot com and over
on Twitter.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
I am at gun Talk.
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Speaker 2 (32:26):
By now you probably have seened the video. If not,
you can go look it up online. But it's been
in the news for the last two or three days.
Video coming out of Aurora, Colorado apartment complex where a
Venezuelan gang, which just sounds weird, a gang of Venezuelan's
(32:47):
illegal immigrants from Venezuela have taken over the whole complex.
They've basically tossed out the people who are running it,
people who are collecting rent, and they are now collecting rent.
And the video, and this is the critical part, shows
a number of them. They're probably eight people. Four of
them that I could see in the video are carrying
(33:09):
guns and they're going door to door long guns and handguns,
and they are demanding basically extortion money from people.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
They've taken over completely.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
It's a The amazing part was, even though there's video
of it, the mayor of Aurora, Colorado said, oh, yeah,
that's just misinformation. Well he can only pull that off
for about twenty four hours until the weight of the
evidence and the outcry of the people overwhelmed him and
he said, oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there
(33:42):
actually are doing that and we're working on that.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, quarter a clown.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
All that aside, all of the you know, put aside
the weak prosecutors or prosecutors that let people out of jail,
or in.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
This case, the police.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
People call the police and they say, well, look, you know,
unless there's a serious crime taking place, we're not coming.
Or people call the police, the police have answered them
with have you considered moving? In other words, it's your fault.
Are the only thing that we can do about it
is tell you to move. So here's the question for you,
because I mean, oh, look, this is how I roll.
(34:20):
I see the video for people with guns banging on
this door, and I'm thinking AAR fifteen, open the door
and shoot each of them twice. Bang bang bang bang
bang bank bang bang.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Okay, rock and roll. I'll go back to my sandwich. Now.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yes, I know I'm being bloss a and that's you know,
that's not reality, except it might be for those who say, well,
there's no reason to have a day Are fifteen for
self defense. So day Are fifteen would not work for
self defense. Actually I think it would work very well. Indeed,
that or an extended magazine twelve gage to explain the
(35:01):
situation to those who have taken over criminal gangs who
have taken over and yeah, I get all the aftermath,
I get all the rest of that. But I'm just saying,
if somebody's beaten on my door, and I'm going to
know who's out there before I open the door, right,
I mean we've talked about this. You need a peephole,
you need cameras, you need some way of seeing who's
(35:22):
out there. Otherwise you don't open the door, and probably
you don't open the door at all.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Call the police.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Unfortunately the police aren't coming because nobody's been shot yet
in that situation, tell me a solution, a gun solution
that's better than an AR fifteen for that. I'm seriously,
You've got thirty round magazine, you've got easy to aim,
(35:50):
easy to fire, easy to use. You have more power
at hand stopping power than you would with a handgun.
I'm just I'm just not seeing a downside to the
whole thing.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
People say, well, it's noisy, Yeah it is. It's going
to be messy, Yeah it is. And you got a
lot of explaining to do. Yes, you will, But your
number one goal is to get out of it alive.
And when four people with guns show up at your
front door, the question I would have is what are
you prepared to do? How are you going to handle that?
(36:29):
And this, no, this no longer requires much imagination. Where
for years we've said, well what about this situation? People say, oh,
you guys, I can't imagine anything like that or happened.
What are you talking about? Multiple people with guns?
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Really?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
What got a fantasy world do you people live in?
Except that it's not a fantasy, is it? This is real?
These are people doing it. Right now in the middle
of America, and not just one place or two places,
and I'll a lot of places. You have gangs from
foreign countries that have taken over apartment complexes, sections of
(37:08):
town where the police don't go. And I will tell
you probably don't go because they know the DA is
not going to back them up. They know that they're
going to get grief from the mayor's office. But if
you imagine, you look, that mayor has a swat team
and that police department has good people on it. If
(37:31):
you said, all right, go clean out this apartment complex,
just take care of it.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
They know who the people are, they know where they live,
they know what's going on. Take care of.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
This, do you I think the police would probably do that.
I think swat teams would say, yeah, we know how
to do that, we can take care of that. But
until they do that, because I mean, that only works
if they make it happen. You are, as you always are,
on your own. You are on your own to take
(38:04):
care of yourself. You're on your own to take care
of your family. So what are you prepared to do?
Prepared mentally prepared, emotionally prepared, physically. Do you have the
tools you need. Do you have the competence the ability
(38:24):
to use them? Have you taken any classes? Do you
know how to use an AR fifteen in a short
range situation? Three feet two feet contact range?
Speaker 9 (38:35):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Never thought of that. I thought that was a right
for prolong range. Yeah, well that's where training comes in.
A good AR fifteen class for defensive use. Ought to
have you shoot at two and three feet as well
as at one hundred yards. We'll talk about that at
some point too. Eight six ' six talk gun, What
are your thoughts on these gangs of immigrants taken over apartments?
Speaker 3 (38:58):
I'm Tom Gresham and this is gun talking.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
All right, straight to the phones. Terry is then Farmington,
New Mexico. Kerry, what's going on with your rifles?
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Man?
Speaker 16 (39:14):
Well, I'll tell you Tom. I have got a pair
of thirty ho sixties here from the fifties and sixties.
One's a Winchester Model seventy if the other one is
Browning semi autom both well shoot the first two shots
with both factory and reloads. First two shots come in
within a half bench each other, and then the third
shot is about three inches to four inches out. And
(39:38):
I was learning if anybody, if you or if any
of your listeners never heard of that problem before.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
What happens to shots four and five?
Speaker 16 (39:46):
What happens there? They keep getting worse? Okay, he keeps
moving further out.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
All right. Several quick questions. Are you cleaned the barrels? Yep? Okay? Uh?
Tighten all the action screws.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
God?
Speaker 16 (40:05):
No, no, when I haven't.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Okay, that's definitely an option. Check the action screws. Uh,
could be scope crewise, you know, tighten up the don't
like hunk them down there so you're stripping threats. But
check the scope mounting screws on those. And I gather
you uh, I see that you're you're using a lead
slid right, yes? Can I ask you to stop using that?
(40:33):
And here's why I don't like them. I don't think
you get consistent results out of them in terms of uh,
it doesn't mimic what it's like to shoot off your
shoulder or you fold up a towel and put it
against your shoulder. But shoot off the sand bags with
a good solid w rest so there's absolutely no wobble
when the gun goes off.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Press the trigger.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And one thing I would also throw out is after
the second shot, you may be getting enough recoiled in action.
You're going you're you may be pulling the trigger poorly
to say that, have somebody else load the gun for you,
so that each time you pull the trigger it might
go bang or it might go click. And that way,
(41:13):
when it goes click, if you jerk the trigger, you
can see the movement. And so your goal is to
not embarrass yourself by going, oh, I flinched terribly, and
if somebody else is loading that gun, you don't know
which way it's going to go. I think you may
solve some of the problem with that. Because you've got
(41:34):
two different guns doing similar things. I'm going to reduce
it down to the one common element here, which is
the shooter as opposed to the gun. Makes sense, Yeah, yes, sir, Yeah,
and I would try that. Obviously, you could always have
somebody else shoot those guns and see if it does
the same for them. But I'm going to ask you
to retire the led slid put it away. As I say,
(41:57):
I'm not a real fan. And look, I understand people
say controls recoil. Yeah, just fold up a towel, put
it over your shoulder. Guns don't kick that much. They're
not a big deal, but you can douce a flinch
through that. That's where having the gut either loaded or
not loaded when you're shooting it will reveal whether you're flinching.
And of course having somebody else shoot it. Look if
somebody else shoots it and they're shooting nice little groups, third,
(42:19):
fourth shots, then you're going, okay, I asked for the
second shot. I think I'm probably starting to develop a flinch.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
That is not a character flaw.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
This is a physiological thing that happens to us. We
don't like that big blast, and so developing a flinch
is very common, and you just have to figure out
how am I going to address that? And the primary thing,
and look, we all get flinches occasionally. The primary thing
is to find out that it's going on and then
address it and the like I talk about using dummy
(42:53):
rounds and your pistols so that either's going to go
bang or click. If it goes click and you jerk
the trigger and the sites go off the target, oh wow.
Even on your rifle, you can do the same thing,
Like I said, having somebody else loaded for you time,
and all you're doing now is trying to make sure
that when it goes click, nothing moves so that you say,
oh good, good trigger press on that click and the
(43:17):
crosshairs didn't move on the target.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
If you can do that, I'm guessing those groups are
going to get a lot better.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
All right, eight six sticks talk gun that will sure
get you in here. Let me come back. Let's talk
about holsters. Do you need a retention holster for concealed carry?
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Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. Tom Gresham here if
you want to join us, it's pretty darn easy. Eight
sixty six talk gun or Tom Talk Gun. What are
the things that's great about Well, I don't know AR
fifteen particularly, but just guns in general.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
It's tinkering.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
We've been tinkering with guns since people were building them
on the kitchen table, you know, fifty years ago. More
than that wildcatting cartridge.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Is all of that.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
But now with the I call them the erector set
system that we have with ars and a lot of
other guns, it's just fun to play with the stuff.
And joining me right now is Mark Keller. He is
the executive vice president of B five Systems. Mark, welcome,
and what is B five?
Speaker 4 (00:51):
B five Systems were a manufacturer located southwest Ohio. A
lot of people know who we are, and we're very
popular on their there's other people that Hey, B five,
who's that haven't haven't heard of, you guys. So B
five is really kind of the third iteration of a
family business that was historically focused on military spare parts,
(01:12):
government contracts, making all kinds of widgets for our fighting
men and women. So we've transitioned really since twenty ten
twenty eleven and made a big push into the firearm space.
So that said, you know, we've not abandoned our roots
and supplying parts to the military. We continue to do so,
(01:36):
we increasingly continue to do so with our with our
firearm parts. But in addition to that, we supply over
seventy OEMs at this point, so pretty much every major
fire manufacturers using our parts, particularly our furniture stocks, grips,
et cetera, in some form or fashion. And then we
have increasingly a commercial presence, so you know, a few
(01:58):
years ago, you might go in to a gun store
and not see our products. Now I would say majority
of gun stores do have our products. Definitely, the larger
online retailers and major distributors, et cetera are carrying carrying us.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So even if you haven't purchased a B five Systems
product from a store, if you have an AR there's
a decent chance you actually are using B five Systems
stuff on your gun.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Yeah, that's that's absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
So, you know, again we're still relatively new to the
commercial fireing space. But that said, you know, we have
over a million butt stocks in the market between between
all those you know, so we're not we're not exactly
a little guy. We're not the biggest yet, but we're
not we're not exactly small on it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
How does it work in terms of informing what you
do now or helping with your product to have that
background of supplying parts to the military and how you're
supplying them on the commercial market, on the private market,
the stuff we buy when we go into a store.
How do we benefit from your experience with the military.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
The short answer is, as a company, we want to
ensure that we give the best quality parts to our
fighting men and women. Our products are used by every
service branch uh in in the military. We have close
relationships with end users, you know, from from Guys Care
and our guns in the harm you know, our gun
(03:25):
parts into Harm's way up to program offices, and so
we have a really unique insight and look into what
the military wants, both from program side to boots on
the ground. Right if you if you will, and we
design all of our products, you know, even if it's
even you know, most of our products are focused and
originally intended or designed for military use, going on military guns.
(03:49):
But we take that same level of commitment knowing that
our product is going on a gun that's going to
be carried on duty in harm's way to everything that
we do, every product that we that we make. So
you know, we try to instill in our employees that
we have to be write each time every time. And
you know, manufacturing is not always exciting.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Now, you know, but but but there's the heart of
what you do.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
It's exactly right, and it's extremely important that our our
parts are right, that we're putting out the best quality
because guns are getting carried in the harms way, and
you know, have tons of examples, uh, from service members
that have said, hey, man, I carried you know, I
carried in them for with you know, with as mod
on it. You know, I want to I want to
(04:36):
recreate that, I want to build a clone gun what
I carried. And so the same quality goes into all
of our commercial it's it's you know, what we supply
to the military now. So we just got a national
you know stock number for the Bravo stock that's starting
to go on a lot in fors m for a ones,
our collapsible precision stock is going on in one tens.
(04:57):
That same exact product that we're delivering to our military customers.
That's the exact same product, the exact same material, the
exact same design, uh, that you're going that you're going
to buy off the shelf at a at a commercial store.
So we don't we don't cherry pick or those guys
get you know, get something a little bit better.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Or we we weaken or we change.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
The the the commercial product you're you're getting the exact
same the exact same product. Frankly that the only difference is,
you know, it's a different package. It's it's a retail
package versus you know, a military type of type of package.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Okay, all right, we're talking with Mark Keller from B
five Systems B five systems dot com.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
How do you go about deciding what to make next?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
That's a great question. You know, there's there's no shortage
of ideas number number one. So you know, have a
very very long list of items in the queue of
what we what we want to do and it's it's
something that we you know, frankly challenge ourselves a little
bit about hey, what do we want to do?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
So you know, oftentimes in a business there's there's limitations
of time and money. You know, you can't do everything
because those are both finite resources. You have the balance
of you know, the application of hey are we going
to do this for you know, this this program for
the military? Are we going to do this this project
for the commercial? So most of our projects frankly kick
(06:18):
off with a military ask or it's something that we
have wanted to do that may not make sense, you know.
So we may have some ideas on the drawing board
that frankly sit for for a long time and you know,
unlesser until we have an opportunity or a larger customer
to say, hey, we would be really interested in this,
then we would do that. And so again, some of
(06:39):
that stuff comes from comes from direct end users. You know,
we have a machine gun stock that we designed for
the military, so no no commercial application, right right, So
you know, so the.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Military is that we don't want this, Maybe we would
hope fingers crossed.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
You know, I was just on the phone with another
industry guy and I I have a legal background and
I am extremely extremely excited with the ruling out of Kansas.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
So well, we'll see what happens there.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Again, the courts do not move swiftly, so it's going
to take a little time. D O J and a
t F is in a very interesting position right now.
How they respond to that move, Well, let me in
your background.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You're having a legal background and making a gun parts
of being involved in this space. It is and I'm
a switch on you here. We're at a unique place
in time with I mean we are. I would almost
say we're at a tipping point of things changing radically
in favor of the Second Amendment.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Absolutely agree with that. We have a judiciary that are
you know, transitioning back in my opinion, to the you know,
the original tent of our founding fathers of you know,
the two A means this, this is why this is here.
And yes, as a as a citizen, you're allowed to
(07:55):
have this stuff. And I think that's I think that's fantastic.
You know, we are again, you know, we supply a
lot of a lot of a lot of government, but
we supply average the average consumer and love it. You know,
we we were in a unique position to be able
to do both and support both. And I hope, I
hope this case is expounded upon. And you know, SBRs
(08:15):
and suppressors and machine guns we can we can purchase
just like like any any other type on fire Boy.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
That would be terrific.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Now your your stocks and your handguards and accessories and grips,
they're availed in stores, but also you can buy them
directly off your website at B five Systems dot com.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Yeah, that's that's exactly right.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
So you know, everything that we uh, that we we
offer to our resellers, you can you can purchase from
from us, uh, you know, every now and then we'll
do something limited or exclusive either for those customers or hey,
you can only get this item from from B five
Systems dot dot com. So yeah, we we try to
keep everything in stock. We try to ship the same
(08:56):
same day or next day, depending on the time the
order is is play. But yeah, we we've got a
very busy shipping department that does a nice job of
getting our product out.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
All right, final question for you, how is business these
days in terms of people wanting to accessorize or equip
or even just build ours.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Overall, the commercial market is not super strong, as most
people know.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
You know, there's a lot of challenges.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
You know, AMO is expensive, the economy is terrible, as
we all know. For us, we're we're growing. You know,
we're probably one of the few companies that is, you know,
actively growing right now on every channel, our OEMs or
our retail, our military stuff. So very fortunate, very blessed
to be in that position. The nice thing about what
(09:40):
we do, because you know, we don't make guns, we
make accessories. We cater and serve it to a lot
of the industry. The nice thing is that we had
record gun sales the last the last few years. So
you know, what we've seen is people go out because
of twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, you know, the gun
run there. We've seen a a lot of people that, hey,
(10:00):
they just wanted to get an AR, any any kind
of AR and some of those people just.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
Put it in a closet, didn't do anything with it.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
A lot of those a lot of those customers say, hey,
this is my first one, but but I like this.
You know, I grew up shooting as a kid, or
or maybe this is my first foray into exercising my
Second Amendment rights. But I have it, and I like it,
and I want to get another one, or I want
to buy a nicer one, or you know, I bought
a pretty decent gun, but let me let me upgrade
(10:28):
it on the spot.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
What they want to do. They want to take her
with it.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
They want to acceptorize, they want to you know, jazz
it up, and you know, and the.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Other part of it is it's easy to do all.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
That absolutely absolutely, you know, from a manufacturing standpoint, a
consumer standpoint. You know, the AR fifteen is standardized, so
you know, for the most part, it's it's plug and play.
You know, you can, you know, pop two pins and
put a new upper on. You can change out a
rail a barrel if you like the tanker guy or
gal uh. You know, if you have the slightest inclination
(10:59):
and mechanic cool aptitude, super easy to do, super super
easy to do. That said, you know, we have a
have a good customer service team that that fields all
kinds of questions and you know, a lot of a
lot of first time buyers and that's okay, Well we'll
walk through, you know, we'll walk people through how to upgrade,
how to, how to you know, take a stock on,
put it off, you know, how to just basic things
(11:20):
that they may not know, and we're happy to happy
to share that information. You know, at the end of
the day, we want our product in the hands of
good guys, whether that's you know, people carrying a gun
professionally for for work, military law enforcement. But we want
you know, our armed citizens, our good citizens, and we're
very proud that people are choosing to use B five
(11:40):
Systems products over some of our competitors.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Hey, Mark, I appreciate your time. Bfive Systems dot com.
Congratulations on the growth and keep us posted on the
new stuff you guys are bringing.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Out absolutely, Tom appreciate the time.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
All right, you take care of eight six six Talk
Gun or Tom Talk Gun Gun Talk.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Will be right back.
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Speaker 2 (14:15):
Alright back with you a little bit later the show,
We're going to have an interview with a lady who
had a horrifying encounter for the murderer and how it
affected her in terms of thinking about carrying a gun
women protecting themselves. But first I want to just tag
onto Mark's comment in the middle of that interview. He
(14:36):
mentioned what had happened in Kansas, and I haven't gotten
to that yet, so I need to get to that.
A federal judge in Kansas this past week throughout a
machine gun possession charge, saying that machine guns are bearable
arms as in keeping bear and they are covered by
(14:57):
the Second Amendment, and bands on the private ownership of
machine guns or restrictions on the likely are unconstitutional that
would apply to block switches.
Speaker 10 (15:11):
Oooo.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
I am sure the US attorney is going to.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Appeal this, but this is a US federal district judge
who decided that machine guns are bearable arms and they
are covered by the Second Amendment. I have no problem
with that. The reality is, oh, look, let's think about this.
Why was the Second Amendment written. We just come out
of this terrible war. We wanted to have a very
(15:38):
small federal government. We wanted the people to have protection
against their own government should to get out of control.
The idea was and should still be that the people
should be able to have any bearable arms that the
military has, yes, including machine guns. We'll see where this
thing ends up. That's going to be fascinating, and sometimes
(16:00):
maybe it's just pushing so far out it stretches that
rubber band out and it ends up coming back and
we don't get that. But in the process it stretched
the rubber band out, so now it's still a little
bit further out. So our rights are a little bit better.
They're a little bit more expansive than they were. All right,
(16:22):
let's go to the phones. Mike's with us out of
Oregon on line four. Mike, this is an interesting question.
Speaker 11 (16:28):
Lay it on me, Yes, sir, I want to pick
your brain just a little bit. I have a Springfield
health cat. I usually carry it ankle holster type thing,
but I wear bib overalls all the time, and I'd
like to carry it around my hip, and any ideas
on what kind of a holster that I could wear
(16:49):
that still be concealable, you know, with bib overall.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Right, okay, Well the cool part is while bib overalls
prevent you from wearing a belt and holster, that actually
provides you with some other options. Obviously. I mean you
figured out the ankle carry. Another one would be one
of those pocket holsters could go on in your right
hip pocket or even right front pocket where you could
(17:14):
slide the gun and a hell cat would fit in
one of those. But there's another one I was gonna
throw at you, the idea of a belly band. Or
there's one called smart carry, and you go to smartcarry
dot com. I've had one of those for twenty plus years,
and think of it is kind of like a pouch,
and you would just simply put it around your waist
(17:36):
over your shirt but under the bib overall, and you
would simply reach inside the bib overall. The gun basically
is hanging I want to say, like almost over your crotch,
but inside the overalls, and if you slid your hand
inside the overall, bang or you got your hand. We
don't want to bang going off. But right there you've
(17:57):
got your hand on the gun and it comes down out.
It is comfortable, and it's in a place that people
don't stare, they don't look. I would offer that's a
very real possibility, a good option for you.
Speaker 11 (18:12):
And you call that Mark Carrie.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
No, no, smart sma art smart Carry, Oh smart Yeah,
if you go.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
To smartcarriy dot com you'll see what I'm talking about.
It's one of those that like ten seconds then you
look at you go, oh, I got it.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I understand that concept. Either it's going to work or not.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
But I would offer that's a real decent option for
you when you're wearing your overalls.
Speaker 11 (18:36):
Well, I do that all the time. So I'll give
that a shot and see what.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
They're well, do this if you if you get smart
Carry or however you end up with it, give me
a call back and let me know how it worked out,
because we'd like to get these follow up range reports.
Speaker 11 (18:49):
Okay, okay, I'll do it, all.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Right, I appreciate that. Good luck with that. All right?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
What's on your mind? What questions do you have about
how to carry?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
What to carry? Are you where to carry?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Here's a question for you when do you carry. I
realize I need to get this out. I realize that
not everybody's gun centric as I am. I mean, I'm
into guns, and a lot of people have a gun
and they carry sometimes and they're not going to buy
(19:23):
a lot of holsters and try different things. They're not
going to go to a gun school and they're not
going you know, it's a lot of stuff they're not
going to do because that's just not their thing.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Okay, I got it.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
But at the same time, can I suggest that maybe
changing your attitude, if that's where you are, changing your
attitude just a little bit. You don't have to become,
you know, all gun crazy like I am. Where I
like different gun I like to try different stuff, but
think of it not so much as a gun, but
as a parachute or as a fire extinguisher or as
(19:55):
a life saving device. And you need to at least
to be conversant with it and competent with it, and
need to master the.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Tool and with a firearm.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
While it is simple on one level, where you pick
it up, you pull the trigger, it goes bang, hopefully
you're pointed it in the right place, there's more to
it than that, and there's a lot to the idea
of having a gun for self defense. You do not
have to go buy a whole bunch of guns and
whole bunch of holsters and all that. But I would
(20:31):
offer that maybe you should make a commitment to say, Okay,
this is an important thing. I have made the commitment
to buy a gun for self defense to protect me
and to protect my family. What is the minimum level?
It's an interesting question. What's the minimum level of experience, training, practice,
(20:52):
gear awareness that you should achieve in order to be comfortable,
competent and safe. A one or two day class, I
would suggest, would be very worthwhile, to the point of
probably changing how you think about a lot of things,
also changing your level of comfort, because honestly, and let
(21:17):
me just say this, if you are carrying every day
or occasionally and it makes you uncomfortable to carry, that's
not a good place to be. It needs to be comfortable, like, okay,
it's like carrying a wallet. I just do this all
the time. And you need to get to that place
(21:38):
because until you get there, you're not really competent. You're
not really going to be good on drawing or your
awareness or your situation. You're just kind of uncomfortable with it.
You need to move through that and get to a
different place. And the only way you do that is
to make a firm decision that this is my next
(22:01):
course of action. I will take a class, I will practice,
I will become confident.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
I owe it to myself, I owe it to.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
My family, and then you simply do it if it
really is as easy as that. All right, we're back
with you. I'm Time Gresham and this is gun Talk.
You can check us out over on Twitter now x.
I am at gun talk over there you can follow me.
(22:31):
Of course. All the gun talk media, the cold properties,
everything is available at gun talk dot com. We have
several TV shows we produce all about guns and all
about shooting.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
We do a number of videos.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Working with the various manufacturers, we get to try out
an awful lot of the new guns before they come out,
so on the day they're announced, we have our videos
where we've been out of the range. Speaking of ranges,
we have the Range Ready Studios down in Louisiana, about
halfway between bat Rouge in New Orleans. We don't do
a lot of classes there. We're not really a school,
(23:04):
but we offer some classes throughout the year. They're very
high grade, quite unique some of them, I mean some
of them. You take the class and you end up
working with manufacturers and you come away with the gun
as part of the class. If you go to Rangeready
Studios dot com, you can get a look at the
upcoming classes and they sell out quickly. Really, what you
(23:28):
ought to do, if you're interested seriously is sign up
on the newsletter there. That way you get an advanced
warning on classes that are coming, because in some cases,
by the time it gets posted to the website, they're
already sold out from people who are on the newsletter.
So rains Ready Studios dot com. All right, let's go
(23:49):
to Marian, Idaho. That's just down the road from here.
Kevin's with us online.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Five. Hey Kevin, you're on Gun Talk. What's up? Hey?
Speaker 11 (23:57):
Tom?
Speaker 12 (23:57):
I always listening to your program.
Speaker 11 (23:59):
I love it.
Speaker 12 (24:00):
And I went to dinner last night with a friend
of mine and he's almost seventy and he wants to
go hunting. But he said, you know, in his young
in his early twenties, he got in trouble, got a felony,
was not violent. He bought some stolen equipment and it
turned out to be stolen anyways, it's a felony. And
(24:20):
so he asked me, what is my opinion of him
owning a gun, and I said, I have no problems
with him owning a gun because it's a non violent offense.
And I was kind of wondering what your opinion was.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I think the federal law that prohibits you from owning
a gun because you have a past felony conviction is
unconstitutional and probably will get struck down at some point.
It's already happened in some cases, so I think that's
going to end up going away, and they may draw
fine line and say, okay, it wasn't a violent felony
(24:53):
versus like a tax evasion felaty kind of a thing,
or it got caught with some stolen equipment, or you know,
in some places, you were smoking weed when you were
nineteen years old forty years ago, and now you've got
a felony conviction. There's no reason for you to have
lost your second amm of rights over that. And I
think it's going to go away. I hope it is. Unfortunately,
(25:15):
maybe not in his lifetime, but who knows, it might
be next year.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
But I look, I start from a position that there
should be no gun control laws, none, zero, none, whatsoever.
And so when you work from that, you go, Okay, Now,
explain to me why you should lose your rights because
you were convicted, You served your time, it's over, forget
about it.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Why should you have that.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
It's like the prohibition against being able to own a
gun because you have a misdemeanor conviction for domestic violence.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Why in the world should you lose.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Your constitutional rights over a misdemeanor conviction. And yes, domestic
violence can be terrible, no doubt about it. But some
of those cases way back, a lawyer said, look, just
plead it out. It's a fifty dollars fine, he said.
She said, it's not a big deal. And then after
that happened, they passed the Lautenberg Amendment, and that was
(26:16):
the one that said you lose your rights forever for
a misdemeanor conviction on domestic violence. A lot of police
officers lost their jobs over that because they couldn't carry
a gun anymore. A lot of people lost the ability
to have guns because they just pled it out because
a lawyer said it just make it go away. It's
not a big deal. Just say yes to that thing.
(26:37):
It's just a misdemeanor anyway, r I worried about it.
So No, you should not lose your rights to own
a gun, to carry a gun for these convictions that
are in the past. If you want to draw a
fine line on violent felonies, we could discuss that, but
I don't think and Jim's point out expungement maybe a possibility.
(26:58):
There may be a way for him to get his
rights back. That's just something for him to take a
look at. Let's rab Robert on Too out of Oklahoma. Hey, Robert,
this looks very interesting. Talk to me about trigger control.
Speaker 10 (27:11):
Well, I was listening back at the fourth of July
show as you were talking to Ted Nugents and something
about the bow release or whatever would help improve both
your trigger pull. And I'm in a case where I
want to be able to help use that to help
also build up my strength back. I may never bow hunt,
(27:35):
but I would like to get into police shooting and
also powers. But I'm in a let's just call rehabilitation
process at this point physically so. But it ticked my
interest in which I wanted to find out where's a
good place to start knowing that I'm going to be
(27:58):
weak to start with and build strength, or it is
a good place to start with a bow. That's where
I can in terms of well.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, let me ask you this, Uh, is your real
interest in shooting a bow or is your real interest
in shooting a gun.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
At this point?
Speaker 10 (28:17):
Uh?
Speaker 11 (28:17):
That's it's hard to say because it's both.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Now okay, well all right, I was going to say,
because you could just start with work on trigger control
by shooting a gun, and you could even do that
with an air gun. With an appellate gun, it has
no recoil. If physical strength is and issues for shooting
right now, you could What I'm saying is, if you're
really wanting to get into shooting the gun, I would
(28:42):
probably skip the idea of the bow. If you're saying, okay,
but I want to shoot on to do archery, then yes,
a compound bow with a low pull weight might be
a good way to go. If you're going to do that,
I would very much recommend you find a an archery
specific shop, and there are these small shops that are
(29:04):
set up for archeries where they can get you the
right kind of bow, the right kind of release, and
give you some lessons to get you started. I mean,
archery is great fun. I love shooting archie. I just
don't do it much anymore because I'm kind of focused
on the guns these days. But you know, I bow
hunted a good bit when I was younger, So nothing
wrong with that and nothing wrong with doing both of them.
(29:25):
But I'm just going to say, if you're using the
archery as a way to get into shooting a gun
with trigger control, you could possibly just go ahead and
start with an air gun or something and go that way.
So I don't know if that works for you, but
whichever way you go, let us know what you end
up doing, and.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
We would like to get a callback and a follow
up on that.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I appreciate the call, sir, all right eight six '
six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
That's me Tom.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Check us out at gun talk dot com and over
on Twitter.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
I am at gun Talk.
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Speaker 2 (32:26):
By now you probably have seened the video. If not,
you can go look it up online. But it's been
in the news for the last two or three days.
Video coming out of Aurora, Colorado apartment complex where a
Venezuelan gang, which just sounds weird, a gang of Venezuelan's
(32:47):
illegal immigrants from Venezuela have taken over the whole complex.
They've basically tossed out the people who are running it,
people who are collecting rent, and they are now collecting rent.
And the video, and this is the critical part, shows
a number of them. They're probably eight people. Four of
them that I could see in the video are carrying
(33:09):
guns and they're going door to door long guns and handguns,
and they are demanding basically extortion money from people.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
They've taken over completely.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
It's a The amazing part was, even though there's video
of it, the mayor of Aurora, Colorado said, oh, yeah,
that's just misinformation. Well he can only pull that off
for about twenty four hours until the weight of the
evidence and the outcry of the people overwhelmed him and
he said, oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there
(33:42):
actually are doing that and we're working on that.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, quarter a clown.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
All that aside, all of the you know, put aside
the weak prosecutors or prosecutors that let people out of jail,
or in.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
This case, the police.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
People call the police and they say, well, look, you know,
unless there's a serious crime taking place, we're not coming.
Or people call the police, the police have answered them
with have you considered moving? In other words, it's your fault.
Are the only thing that we can do about it
is tell you to move. So here's the question for you,
because I mean, oh, look, this is how I roll.
(34:20):
I see the video for people with guns banging on
this door, and I'm thinking AAR fifteen, open the door
and shoot each of them twice. Bang bang bang bang
bang bank bang bang.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Okay, rock and roll. I'll go back to my sandwich. Now.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yes, I know I'm being bloss a and that's you know,
that's not reality, except it might be for those who say, well,
there's no reason to have a day Are fifteen for
self defense. So day Are fifteen would not work for
self defense. Actually I think it would work very well. Indeed,
that or an extended magazine twelve gage to explain the
(35:01):
situation to those who have taken over criminal gangs who
have taken over and yeah, I get all the aftermath,
I get all the rest of that. But I'm just saying,
if somebody's beaten on my door, and I'm going to
know who's out there before I open the door, right,
I mean we've talked about this. You need a peephole,
you need cameras, you need some way of seeing who's
(35:22):
out there. Otherwise you don't open the door, and probably
you don't open the door at all.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Call the police.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Unfortunately the police aren't coming because nobody's been shot yet
in that situation, tell me a solution, a gun solution
that's better than an AR fifteen for that. I'm seriously,
You've got thirty round magazine, you've got easy to aim,
(35:50):
easy to fire, easy to use. You have more power
at hand stopping power than you would with a handgun.
I'm just I'm just not seeing a downside to the
whole thing.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
People say, well, it's noisy, Yeah it is. It's going
to be messy, Yeah it is. And you got a
lot of explaining to do. Yes, you will, But your
number one goal is to get out of it alive.
And when four people with guns show up at your
front door, the question I would have is what are
you prepared to do? How are you going to handle that?
(36:29):
And this, no, this no longer requires much imagination. Where
for years we've said, well what about this situation? People say, oh,
you guys, I can't imagine anything like that or happened.
What are you talking about? Multiple people with guns?
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Really?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
What got a fantasy world do you people live in?
Except that it's not a fantasy, is it? This is real?
These are people doing it. Right now in the middle
of America, and not just one place or two places,
and I'll a lot of places. You have gangs from
foreign countries that have taken over apartment complexes, sections of
(37:08):
town where the police don't go. And I will tell
you probably don't go because they know the DA is
not going to back them up. They know that they're
going to get grief from the mayor's office. But if
you imagine, you look, that mayor has a swat team
and that police department has good people on it. If
(37:31):
you said, all right, go clean out this apartment complex,
just take care of it.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
They know who the people are, they know where they live,
they know what's going on. Take care of.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
This, do you I think the police would probably do that.
I think swat teams would say, yeah, we know how
to do that, we can take care of that. But
until they do that, because I mean, that only works
if they make it happen. You are, as you always are,
on your own. You are on your own to take
(38:04):
care of yourself. You're on your own to take care
of your family. So what are you prepared to do?
Prepared mentally prepared, emotionally prepared, physically. Do you have the
tools you need. Do you have the competence the ability
(38:24):
to use them? Have you taken any classes? Do you
know how to use an AR fifteen in a short
range situation? Three feet two feet contact range?
Speaker 9 (38:35):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Never thought of that. I thought that was a right
for prolong range. Yeah, well that's where training comes in.
A good AR fifteen class for defensive use. Ought to
have you shoot at two and three feet as well
as at one hundred yards. We'll talk about that at
some point too. Eight six ' six talk gun, What
are your thoughts on these gangs of immigrants taken over apartments?
Speaker 3 (38:58):
I'm Tom Gresham and this is gun talking.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
All right, straight to the phones. Terry is then Farmington,
New Mexico. Kerry, what's going on with your rifles?
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Man?
Speaker 16 (39:14):
Well, I'll tell you Tom. I have got a pair
of thirty ho sixties here from the fifties and sixties.
One's a Winchester Model seventy if the other one is
Browning semi autom both well shoot the first two shots
with both factory and reloads. First two shots come in
within a half bench each other, and then the third
shot is about three inches to four inches out. And
(39:38):
I was learning if anybody, if you or if any
of your listeners never heard of that problem before.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
What happens to shots four and five?
Speaker 16 (39:46):
What happens there? They keep getting worse? Okay, he keeps
moving further out.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
All right. Several quick questions. Are you cleaned the barrels? Yep? Okay? Uh?
Tighten all the action screws.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
God?
Speaker 16 (40:05):
No, no, when I haven't.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Okay, that's definitely an option. Check the action screws. Uh,
could be scope crewise, you know, tighten up the don't
like hunk them down there so you're stripping threats. But
check the scope mounting screws on those. And I gather
you uh, I see that you're you're using a lead
slid right, yes? Can I ask you to stop using that?
(40:33):
And here's why I don't like them. I don't think
you get consistent results out of them in terms of uh,
it doesn't mimic what it's like to shoot off your
shoulder or you fold up a towel and put it
against your shoulder. But shoot off the sand bags with
a good solid w rest so there's absolutely no wobble
when the gun goes off.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Press the trigger.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And one thing I would also throw out is after
the second shot, you may be getting enough recoiled in action.
You're going you're you may be pulling the trigger poorly
to say that, have somebody else load the gun for you,
so that each time you pull the trigger it might
go bang or it might go click. And that way,
(41:13):
when it goes click, if you jerk the trigger, you
can see the movement. And so your goal is to
not embarrass yourself by going, oh, I flinched terribly, and
if somebody else is loading that gun, you don't know
which way it's going to go. I think you may
solve some of the problem with that. Because you've got
(41:34):
two different guns doing similar things. I'm going to reduce
it down to the one common element here, which is
the shooter as opposed to the gun. Makes sense, Yeah, yes, sir, Yeah,
and I would try that. Obviously, you could always have
somebody else shoot those guns and see if it does
the same for them. But I'm going to ask you
to retire the led slid put it away. As I say,
(41:57):
I'm not a real fan. And look, I understand people
say controls recoil. Yeah, just fold up a towel, put
it over your shoulder. Guns don't kick that much. They're
not a big deal, but you can douce a flinch
through that. That's where having the gut either loaded or
not loaded when you're shooting it will reveal whether you're flinching.
And of course having somebody else shoot it. Look if
somebody else shoots it and they're shooting nice little groups, third,
(42:19):
fourth shots, then you're going, okay, I asked for the
second shot. I think I'm probably starting to develop a flinch.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
That is not a character flaw.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
This is a physiological thing that happens to us. We
don't like that big blast, and so developing a flinch
is very common, and you just have to figure out
how am I going to address that? And the primary thing,
and look, we all get flinches occasionally. The primary thing
is to find out that it's going on and then
address it and the like I talk about using dummy
(42:53):
rounds and your pistols so that either's going to go
bang or click. If it goes click and you jerk
the trigger and the sites go off the target, oh wow.
Even on your rifle, you can do the same thing,
Like I said, having somebody else loaded for you time,
and all you're doing now is trying to make sure
that when it goes click, nothing moves so that you say,
oh good, good trigger press on that click and the
(43:17):
crosshairs didn't move on the target.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
If you can do that, I'm guessing those groups are
going to get a lot better.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
All right, eight six sticks talk gun that will sure
get you in here. Let me come back. Let's talk
about holsters. Do you need a retention holster for concealed carry?
Maybe so, but not for the reason you're thinking
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