April 12, 2026 • 44 mins
In This Hour:
-- Violently attacked by a dozen people, a gun store employee shoots in self defense. Michael Cargill describes what happened to his workers.
-- In the world of fine firearms Wilson Combat stands out. Founder Bill Wilson announces a new pistol and explains how they make such good guns.
-- How does it happen that you buy a gun you don't need?
Gun Talk 04.12.26 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Violently attacked by a dozen people, a gun store employee shoots in self defense. Michael Cargill describes what happened to his workers.
-- In the world of fine firearms Wilson Combat stands out. Founder Bill Wilson announces a new pistol and explains how they make such good guns.
-- How does it happen that you buy a gun you don't need?
Gun Talk 04.12.26 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
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Speaker 3 (00:30):
He was the first and he's still the best. For
thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
all things ballistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection, deep
part of it, Paul, Tom Talk Gun. Now here's Tom.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
All right, and let's do this thing. Hey, I'm Tom Gresham.
I'm the host and we're going to be talked about
guns for the next twelve hours, hours and hours. Yeah,
and we'll do it on the show, and then we'll
do it act the show, and then we'll do it
all week low because that's what we do. We talk
about guns all the time. That's why we call this
Gun Talk. And you could be a part of that.
Just give me a call eight six six Talk Gun
or Tom Talk Gun, same number. Just different ways of
(01:10):
finding there. Confession time a little bit later, I'll tell
you I bought another gun that I didn't need. Yeah,
real surprise, right. It was in the gun store and
it was a good price, and so I said, now
I'm not gonna get that. I'm gonna do that. And
then the next week I'm back in there and it's
(01:31):
still there. That's all I needed. So well, we'll get
some details on that. Yeah, I really needed another pistol,
another nineteen eleven, right, like I never had a nineteen eleven.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
A lot of things going on.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
We're gonna have a report of a couple of gun
store employees who got jumped and mugged by several people.
Didn't turn out well for the several people, so we'll
have really some good information on that. A lot of
things going on. Some special guns being offered, some limited runs,
we'll cover that as well. Les some things you could
do to your guns to make them better. A lot
(02:02):
of things going on. But of course, if you have
a range report, did you go shooting this week, did
you go buy a gun, we'd love to hear about that.
Just give you a holler and we will talk about that.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Now.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
I mentioned just a second ago that I bought another
nineteen eleven. Yeah, I got a lot of them because
I like them. It probably is my favorite platform. And
in the world of nineteen eleven's there are names that
stand out.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
There's one out.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
There that you know, if you ever shot much with pistols,
you probably at some point have done what is called
the Bill drill. It's just a simple drill that you
do to test and work on your shooting ability. Well
where'd that come from? Well, it came from our next guests,
Bill Wilson from Wilson Combat joins us right now.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Bill, thanks for being here. I am so glad to
have you.
Speaker 6 (02:46):
Well, thanks for having me on. Tom.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
You bet, I mean you.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
For those who don't know, you really were one of
the pioneers in competitive action pistol shooting. You tinkered with stuff.
You were like one of the very top shooters, and
you know USPSA and ipsick and founded IDPA and in
the process, like a lot of competitive shooters, you said,
you know, I need a better gun, but i'd like
(03:11):
a lot of people, you said, well, I'll just build
it right.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
Yeah, that's pretty much how it happened.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
What made you think that you could build a better gun.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
Well. I grew up in a family that ran a
jewelry store for fifty three years. My dad was a
watchmaker and he wanted me to take the jewelry store over.
So to appease him, I went to watch and jewelry
making school, and a lot of the skills that I learned,
especially making clock parks and things like that and jewelry,
(03:45):
you know, were skills that could easily be transferred over
to working on firearms. So that's kind of why I
figured I had the skill level to do it. So
then I had to learn, you know, I had to
get the knowledge. And I was so fortunate that Jim
Clark Senior and Armon Swinson took me under their wing
and helped me on the knowledge side of it from
(04:08):
the early days.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah, Jim Clark Junior the first civilian to win the
National pistol Championship at Camp Berry and then of course
became the ultimate gunsmith, pistol gunsmith operating out of the
Streeport area. We knew him, knew Jim Junior, and you
know the family and for those who haven't put it
all together, that's part of the family of Jerry Mitchllick
and k Clark Mitchellick. So that dynasty just continues. That's
(04:32):
a pretty good lineage.
Speaker 6 (04:35):
Absolutely, they're great, great people. They're always always very helpful
to me, as was Armon Swinson's who's kind of the
godfather of you know, custom nineteen elevens.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, all right, So what is and a lot of
people know the name Wilson Combat if they don't think
a look at that Wilsoncombat dot com. You make really
really fine pistols primarily. I mean people I know you
for the nineteen eleven. You've got others and we'll talk
about this new and you just introduced through second, What
is it that makes a really good nineteen eleven? Because
(05:09):
I mean you could buy a nineteen eleven from five
hundred dollars up to fifteen thousand dollars years come in,
you know forward, Yeah, what three to six ballpark?
Speaker 5 (05:21):
What is it that makes a really good nineteen eleven?
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Well, the first thing is build it with really high
quality components. You know, every component in the nineteen eleven
that we build is either fully machined from a forging
or fully machine from a piece of barstock. We don't
use a single casting or men part in any of
our guns. So that's one of the big differences right there.
(05:51):
And then you know, holding tight tolerances where you know,
it doesn't take a ton of fitting to fit them
up really really tired and real good because the more
material you have to remove by hand, the more chance
to that there is that you can get something out
of spect. So we we we try to make our
(06:14):
components where there are just a few thousands extra material
so we can you know, get a real perfect fit,
but not not get anything you know, kind of caddywompush.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
You know, you also got to.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Have some really good people that know how to build
these things because they're still handwork involved.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
Oh yeah, a lot of a lot of handwork on
the nineteen eleven side. Uh, and we're fortunate we've got
some extremely talented people, you know, some of them that
that have have been with us, you know, over forty years,
so we've got to we've got really a lot of
depth and experience you know, of our of our gunsmiths,
and uh, they're they're just you know, really good people
(06:58):
just found earth actually just get good old country boys
that's got lots of handskills and got a lot of
knowledge about how to build guns just up there.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
In the Ozarks in northern Arkansas and building guns.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
Yeah, right right in the heart of the Ozarks.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
All right.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
So I got a question for what if you got
against hogs because you kind of like to shoot hogs.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Don't you.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
That's kind of my passionate life is the hog gun.
And there great now that I've been the bullet and
ammo business so heavily, it's it's just a great place
to test product too.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Oh sure, yeah, we're testing product, That's what we're doing.
Ye know, I've been doing that for years. I could
write off guns, so why not. Why wouldn't we test
product on hogs? I like it for those who don't know,
you built some really good ars. But also you got
into the ammo and the bullet business with the Lehigh
and so.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
You're all over the place.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
You got long guns and handguns and suppressors and ammo
and bullets and custom work and you can people can
send their guns to you. But I want to talk
about this new gun that's actually kind of the Experior
Elite double Stack. It's new, but it's kind of a throwback.
Didn't you kind of have something like that before?
Speaker 6 (08:10):
We had the original Experience, which you know we're still making. Uh.
And basically the difference is h you know, the original
experience was pretty much just a fixed site iron sight
gun and they had their standard frame with with no
enlarged magwell and and had a different texture really than
(08:31):
what we do on some of it now. So we
built this what you know in a house. We call
it the white slide that you know, it's basically a
slide that's got our new pin system for mounting a
red dot, which will allow you to mount almost any
red dot on the market directly to the slide, you know,
(08:52):
without a without an interference plate. And uh. And then
the we've got a real tasteful maguell that's very functional,
but it's not too big in my opinion, and it
really gives a good grip for people with larger hands.
You know, my buddy Ken Hacklo has been here the
last few days and uh, he just fell in love
(09:12):
with this gun because the distance between the bottom oftery
guard and the top of the large part of the
magwell just fits his hand perfect. And he said, I've
never had one I get such a good grip on
as is this gun here.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
And this is designed and built as primarily as a
defensive or a carry gun, that'd be right.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Well, I would say it's more of an all around gun.
I mean it's you know, they make it, they're going
to make a great range gun as well as a
carry gun, and and it's large enough to be a
service pistol with it needed needed, you know that that
use that we need to use it for that.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So what's the thinking behind this when you you looked
at the market, looked everything you made, and you said,
there's a hole here we got to fill. What was
the conversation like to come up with this?
Speaker 6 (10:07):
Well, I mean, as you know, you know twenty eleven
you know, design pistols are pretty popular now, and you know,
with twenty elevens based on you know, a platform that
was regally designed to be a forty five auto, so
it uses a long magazine, which is pretty problematic, you
know with a nine millimeter And that's why we did
(10:29):
We designed our Excen platform based on a proven magazine.
We basically built a gun around the magazine, you know,
and so we feel like we have a better mouse trap.
And you know, some of the twenty elevens had some
features that some of our X Lins didn't, and so
(10:50):
we've kind of covered our bases on that now. And
you know, I think I think this new Experior Elite
you know, is better, is a better platform than in
the twenty eleven, and I know it is for reliability.
You know, I challenge anybody that makes the twenty eleven
to test their gun against ours with a thousand rounds
(11:10):
of PMC one seven flat point American Eagle and see
see who comes out on top for function.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
You sound like you've done exactly that.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
Well, it's it's the hardest, but you know, factory load
there is out there to feed. I mean, if you're
if your gun will reliably feed Federal one forty seven
flat point American Eagle, you can pretty well be assured
that it'll feed any hallow point in the market or
anything else, because that AMMO is loaded way too short
with a really blunt bullet. You know, I don't know
(11:43):
why Federal loads it to dagum short, because I mean,
if they just linked in the overall link a little bit,
that stuff would feed a whole lot better. But it's
great for testing guns straight for testing guns.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
And if Bill Wilson says that, I believe and this
new one carries your standard accuracy guarantee an inch and
a half to twenty five yards.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
Oh yes, yeah, they'll they'll easily. They'll easily do that
with with quality. Ammo. Wow, they won't they won't. They
won't do that with some of the the especially the
imported one fifteen grain.
Speaker 5 (12:13):
Ye, Jack is now the chief practice. That house is
not that good.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
Yeah, that mean some of that stuff won't shoot three
inches in in the most accurate nineteen eleven they ever built.
Speaker 7 (12:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Wow, Okay, it's Wilsoncombat dot Com. Take a look at
It's called the Experior Elite Double Stack. It is the
latest and greatest from Bill Wilson and Bill we love
to see what comes out of your head. I mean,
we got to get you back on here when we've
got some more time.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
Okay, one one last thing, if you'll get me one
one more minute here, Yeah, go ahead, say thing. We're
we're launching a totally new design handgun on the twenty
sixth of the month, on April twenty six Watch watch
for that. They're going to be You're gonna you're gonna
be surprised what we bring out on on April.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Twenty You're talking about totally new type of handgun for.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
You, totally new design. Thanks, thanks you to pay.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
For gun, all right, Wilsoncombat dot com. Check it out
and you can follow him on Facebook and everywhere else
you can follow us.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
We'll have the news as soon as it breaks. Bill,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
Thank you, appreciate you having it all right.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
You take care, all right, Borton, break the news right there.
Did not know that?
Speaker 7 (13:23):
All right?
Speaker 5 (13:23):
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Speaker 4 (13:24):
We'll get you in here. I'm Tom Gresham. What have
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Speaker 4 (16:19):
Oh I follow up. We just had Bill Wilson on
from Wilson Combat.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
That was fun.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
You talk about an icon and gun making as well
as in competition, I mean early shooter for IPsec shooting
action pistol. He created the IDPA concept, the competition, the organization,
the whole thing. He was right there making it all
happen and of course kind of redefining what a high
level nineteen eleven was it is. But he was talking
(16:48):
about this brand new experior Elite double stack pistol and
I know I didn't get it out there, but on
the website it looks like it's thirty nine ninety nine
call it four grand. And that's about where Wilson Combat
pistols are and it's for a lot of people. His
guns are aspirational. That is one of these days I
would like to have kind of thing. I've always wanted
(17:09):
to have a Wilson combat and then people finally get one,
they go yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Okay, yeah, it's that good. Yeah. It lived up to
its billing.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
He At the very end, he threw out, they're going
to have a new pistol, blank sheet of paper pistol.
They're gonna be announcing April twenty six. He said, yeah,
I know a little bit about it. I'll throw one
hen out. I'm not supposed to talk about it, but
I can just tell you this. You're gonna like the price.
(17:37):
Let's just say it that way. Okay, fair enough, all right,
Speaking of price, I go to the local gun store
and they got a pistol sitting in there and went, WHOA,
what's that? And they have used guns and assignment guns,
and thinking, huh, that's kind of cool looking nineteen eleven.
What does that get out? It's dan Weshon doesn't Dan
Wesson Specialist. And that's a model they have, and it's
(18:02):
the black version. They've got chrome and it got black.
The black is more expensive. I'm looking on their website
right now, nsrp on it is. They've gone up, man,
everything's gone up. Thirty two hundred bucks for a Dan
Weston specialist. And it's in ten millimeter, and I'm looking
at this. I'm like, yeah, okay, well it's one of
(18:24):
those deals to be careful when you shoot your mouth off,
because I looked at it and said, that's nice. You know,
it's look at the prices. That's actually a pretty decent price.
That's a that's an attractive price. But I got ten milimeters.
I don't need another ten millimeters, right, And I have
nineteen eleven, so I don't need another nineteen eleven, right, sure,
So I don't buy it. I don't, you know, that's fine,
(18:44):
thanks guys. So I come back the next week. The
Dame thing is still there, and I'm talking to the
manager and we're talking guns and this and that, and
I'm looking at that and I said, yeah, you know,
we're in a small area, small town, not a lot
of people, probably not a lot of ten millimeter, maybe
not a lot of nineteen eleven guys. You're gonna have
trouble moving that. He said, we think we're too high.
(19:06):
I said, yeah, I think probably. You know, I said, look,
you know I would be interested at blank and named
the number. Well, stupid Tom. He said, well, let's just
get that written up. Huh so yeah, bought it, brought
it home, went out shot it. Holy Cow does nothing
(19:28):
shoot nice? And then I got two more than just
sent in because we're doing some stuff with Dan Wesson.
I got the DWX Compact. Holy Cow is not a
nice pistol. And I also got the what do they
call the Guardian. It's a Commander size nineteen eleven with
(19:48):
the rounded but they don't call it bob tail. I
think they called it rounded, but it's one of those
features that you see on carry guns a lot have
it put a lot of rounds three E the one
so far. So I don't have a full comment on them,
other than to say they both shoot really well. The
(20:09):
uh well, both of them are spectacularly accurate. The DWX
feels different. It's I call it the love child between
a CZ seventy five at a nineteen eleven.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
It's kind of a cool gun.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Double stack nine, the Guardian's double stack nine Commander I am,
and I'd like to get your thoughts on this, if
you have experience with it, what you think about the
rounded butt or bobtail on a nineteen eleven grip. Supposedly
it's done so that it's easier to conceal and does
(20:45):
a print you don't have the little part stick it
out of the butt. I'm not convinced that's such a
big deal. It may be more of a style issue.
I also am unsure whether it affects the grip now
I need to shoot it. Going back and forth between
that another one, I'm still making up my mind on that.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Things use like a house of fire.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
But I only have like four magazines put through each
of them, and I would never trust a carry gun
until I had probably I don't know, three hundred rounds
through it. I mean, I hear people say different things,
but let's just pick a number. Three hundred rounds and
I would like to sure there's a break in period
(21:25):
on guns, but I would like to have like the
last one hundred rounds go through without any issues, no
feeding issues, nothing, just run smooth. And of course I
loopen them both up to get them going. So you know,
that's pretty sweet. But Ben, you know, there's just nothing
like a really good, well built nineteen eleven or a
(21:48):
nineteen eleven Ish gun, which makes me interested in whatever
Bill Wilson's could be coming out with that's gonna be fun,
just a lot of cool things. And the ten, well,
it's the ten, you know, like, what can I tell you?
I like tens?
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Fair enough? All right?
Speaker 4 (22:03):
So this thing happened in Austin, Texas a little bit ago.
Two employees from a gun store get jumped by a
bunch of people. It may have been as many as
a dozen. We'll get the details in a few minutes here.
Didn't end up well for the attackers. But as we
always know, this naftermath to everything that'll be coming up
short and we'll have that report and immediately when we
(22:24):
come back. You can join us right here by calling
eight six' Six Talk. Gun I'm Tom gresham and this
is gun.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Talk.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Hi this is gun talk where we always are asking
the question what have you been? Shooting or maybe you
bought a gun? Recently, YEAH i. DID i bought another
GUN i didn't, need so what big? Deal added to the.
List we talk about self defense with guns a lot
around here because it is always has been the number
one reason that people buy and own, guns and every
(22:57):
survey ever done the answer is always self defense comes
up number. One, well and then we have these examples
And none of us wants to end up using a
gun self. Defense none of us wants to shoot, somebody
but we have it because somebody else made that. Happen
joining me right now Is Michael. Cargill he's been a
(23:17):
guest on the show here a number of. Times he,
is of, course the owner Of Central Texas Gun, works
an army veteran farms, instructor taught more than fifty thousand
people that required information about security material AND ccw down In, Austin.
Texas Hey, michael welcome.
Speaker 7 (23:35):
Back, Awesome thank, you. SIR i appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Today you bet.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Okay so look at this story and, went holy, cow
that's That's, michael this. Thing you just had two of
your employees get involved in a self defense. Shooting why
DON'T i step aside and you could explain what happened
in the.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Circumstances, sure.
Speaker 9 (23:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (23:56):
So it Was friday night and my employees decide they
were going to go from a restaurant to another establishment
to enjoy. Themselves so they, were they pulled into the parking,
lot and just before they actually pulled into the parking,
lot there's a group of people apparently got into some
altercation inside this, business this, establishment so they were trespassed
(24:18):
and kicked out of the. Business, so once they were
kicked out of the, business my employees pulled into the
parking lot and ran into that group that was kicked
out of the. Business and so unbeknownst to, them you,
know that there was some type of. Confrontation these people
thought that my employees who were in the parking lot
(24:39):
were part of the group that was responsible for them
getting kicked, out and decided to attack them while they
were in their vehicle in the parking. Lot and so
somehow employees end up out of the vehicle in the
parking lot and it turned into twelve people attacking two
of my. Employees and it was just something that escalate
it really fat and to the point that they got
(25:01):
my employees down on the ground started pouncing on. Them
this lasted for quite a, while about a minute of
them being attacked by twelve people versus two on the.
Ground my employee thought that these guys are trying to kill.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
Us you.
Speaker 7 (25:14):
Know one employee had several fractures in his, face his,
skull he has his eyes, closed he has broken ribs
because it was being pounded on on the. Ground my
employee looked over at him and, thinking, man you, know
they wouldn't, stop he, Said he told, me he, Said,
michael they just would not. Stop you, know it just
kept going and it kept. Going he, SAID i couldn't
(25:36):
get them to, stop and so he had no choice
but to pull out his gun and stop.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Them, so, yeah twelve on two and if this is
one of those happenstances because people, said we, know if
you leave, it lead a good.
Speaker 5 (25:47):
Life you know you're not going to need your.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Gun, well these guys just pulled up into the parking
lot and it was mistaken identity where these other guys
thought that your employees were part of the problem they
just were dealing. With they get jumped out of. Nowhere
so you got a twelve on two. Deal and then
one of your employees pulls a gun and, SHOOTS i
guess killed one of the.
Speaker 7 (26:06):
Attackers, Correct so one person's, dead there's several. Injured and to,
me it's going to be totally justified because you, know
he was in the you, know his mindset was they're
trying to kill, us and it just wouldn't. Stop and
he looked over the one employee he had been knocked
unconscious on the, ground still still being stumped by six
other people while he's on the ground. Unconscious you, know
(26:27):
at some, point you know it's got to.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
Give so this just happened two days.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
Ago, yes that's.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Correct, well what's the situation with your. EMPLOYEES i know
one went to the, hospital the one who ended up.
Shooting what's his status.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Or there with law?
Speaker 7 (26:43):
Enforcement, Right so they both wind up in the hospital that,
night both of my. Employees so they're both out of
the hospital now and one is actually in the county
jail currently because just because the nature of the business of,
things you, know there's a, shooting multiple people are, injured
so you, know with all the, confusion because the, confusion
(27:06):
and the REASON i stepped, in the REASON i made
a statement about this is because everyone was saying that
my employees were inside the, bar and they absolutely were.
Not so we all learned that with security camera footage and.
Everything my guys that never stepped foot in that. Place
my guys were in their. Vehicle that was the. Key
they're in their. Vehicle this started while my employees were
(27:27):
in the vehicle just pulling in the parking. Lot they
never were part of that. Group that was inside the.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Bar, Okay, michael you've taught this stuff for years and
years and. Years you taught The texas law on self
defense with guns and where you can go and where you,
can't and when you can and when you can't shoot
what you should. DO i, mean you know the stuff
forward and, backwards probably as well or better than anybody
in the prosecutor's office over.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
There what does your take on?
Speaker 7 (27:52):
THIS i think if the nature of the business when
you're involved in a self defense, shooting and this is
going to Be Travis, county The liberal, mecca and so you,
know their their thing is, fine we're just gonna charge
this kid with. Murder we're gonna lock them, up take
them the, jail and then you, know and push into
the system and let this go to the grand jury
and let a grand jury decide whether or not to
either invite him or no bill. Him that's just that's what's.
(28:14):
Happened that's what happens in The liberal. City knowing that
he you, know they knew immediately that he worked at
the gun stores because he had you, know he had
on our, shirt the, uniform and so they knew where
he worked and.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Everything so that's.
Speaker 7 (28:27):
And that's WHY i came out and made a, statement
because everybody's gonna. Know and so IF i didn't say,
something then people will, wonder why didn't you say? Something
michael always talks on the. News how come he's not saying.
Anything it's either you, know damn that do or damn that.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Don't, yeah AND i heard people online, saying were, You
i'm not sure i'd want my boss commenting on.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
That, well this is not just your average every day.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Boss you you are a public figure when it comes
to guns and gun rights In texas and self defense
and teaching people to use. Guns, so as you, say
it would have been kind of odd and actually would
have made a.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
Statement if you hadn't made a.
Speaker 7 (28:59):
Statement it would have been a very big. Deal IF
i hadn't said anything about this at, all that people
would be very skeptical and it would be worse. Situation you,
know Because i'm the two. Eight you, Know i'm a
TWO a. Person i'm the person to beat The United
states government in The United States Supreme, court, right the
one who's who's won a case against The Austin Police
department for. Defamation i'm the one who's won a court
(29:19):
case against the, constable a sitting, constable elected constable for
defamation in. Court i'd beat every court case that That
i've ever. Had and so for me not to say
something being a two a person and this person is
a direct employee of, mine would have been a really big.
Deal something is? Up why is he not?
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Talking, okay let me ask a question. Here and there's
not going to surprise. You this is coming your. Way
given everything you just ran out and all the interactions
you've had with local law enforcement ensuing and all the
rest of. It could your employee be taking the broad
of this because of how they feel.
Speaker 7 (29:58):
About, you that that also could be a, possibility you,
Know but he's been treated actually quite, well treated. Great
we have a great legal, team wonderful legal team that
have actually visited. Him we're just waiting on the system
has to work itself. Out so there's a process seventy
two hours you, know before you can see you, know
(30:18):
they have to see a magistrate and stuff like. That
there's a time frame in. There so everything that's happening
is is pretty. Normal AND i told him, that you,
KNOW i told the, employee you're going to be, Arrested
you're going to go to. Jail, yes you're going to
sit in jail for a couple of.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
Days you.
Speaker 7 (30:34):
KNOW i told him, this you, know BECAUSE i was
able to make it to the scene and So i'm you,
Know i'm followed him with all. This this is what's
going to. Happen don't be, surprised you. Know so you,
KNOW i want you to expect. This and so that's
just how the process.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Works, yeah and it's act just a good thing for
everybody to. Understand, look if you are in a self defense,
situation you end up using your gun self. Defense, look
the police roll up and somebody got, shot or maybe
somebody got, killed their natural reaction to that is somebody's
going to get. Arrested and then we're going to let
the prosecutor's, office a DA's office sort it all. Out
(31:08):
but on our side of, things we're going to arrest
somebody on.
Speaker 7 (31:11):
This there's no in the world that you, know one
person's gonna, die four or five people get, injured they
all wind up in the, hospital and someone's not going
to be in handcuffed the.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
People that's not that's not. Reality that's it's.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Just going to.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Happen and you got to know that and you know
it goes to the. Port you talk about having good legal.
REPRESENTATION i have become a strong believer in making sure
you've got some kind of program with one of the
organizations to have some kind of legal.
Speaker 7 (31:37):
Protection where do you, think absolutely you would be crazy
to carry a firearm in this country and not have
some type of legal. Plan you're expected to defend, yourself
to protect, yourself if you're expected to protect your. Family
but when you, do you down nine to one one
and then you hang up that. Phone you call your
attorney and let your attorney to be the one that
(31:57):
talks for you to law, enforcement and you exercise your
right to remain.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Silent, Yeah and that's not saying that you're guilty or anything.
Else it's just saying this is these are my. RIGHTS
i have my, rights And i'm going to exercise my.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
Rights right at exactly Exactly and part of the you,
know part of you not giving them the details that they,
need you, know which you know you're you, know you're
caught up in the in the, moments in the. Hype
your blood pressure is. High you just shot, someone maybe
experience something in their experienced before in your. Life, uh
you really don't want to talk in a time frame like.
(32:30):
That you, know that's not the moment in time to
actually start. Talking you want to shut, up close your,
mouth zip, it you, know and exercise that right that
you know that's written in the.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Constitution are your employees going to be? Okay are they physically?
Speaker 7 (32:44):
Okay, yes they're going to be. Fine you know they're
they're going to. Heal you, KNOW i got one that's
taken you, know quite a few days. Off you, know
he's going to be. Fine we're taking good care of,
him making sure that we're making sure he's eating and you,
know getting the, medicine pain pills and stuff like, that you,
know to be taken care. Of you, know these, GUYS
i love these. Guys these guys take care of, me
(33:05):
and so when they're in, need And i'll make Sure
i'm going to take care.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Of, them all.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Right the story Of Central texas gun works right there In.
Austin are you like Downtown? Austin where are you look at?
Speaker 7 (33:15):
It not too far from downtown between downtown and the,
airport you, know right On Ben white here Between South
first And.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
CONGRESS i know right where you. ARE i get down
To fluckerville a good.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Bill that's where my daughter, lives SO i know the area.
Speaker 9 (33:28):
Absolutely thank.
Speaker 7 (33:29):
You SO i appreciate. It LIKE i always, say you,
know more guns because less. Crime go out there and
buy yourself a.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Gun there you, Go Michael, cargill thank you so. MUCH
i appreciate, you.
Speaker 7 (33:38):
Sir, yes, yes, sir thank.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
You you have a great, day you.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
Too, well there you.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Go that is about as close to first, person you,
know self defense situations you're going to. Get With michael
running it, down people, say, well why is he, Speaking,
well we just figured it.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
Out that makes.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Sense and, also as she, says he's been, involved he's
One Supreme court. Lawsuits he's one number of. These he
is a guy as well as being a cacealed carry
instructor and a gun. Guy talk about, happenstance wrong, place wrong,
time you could call it. THAT i just, say, look
(34:13):
stuff happens and you don't know where it's gonna, happen
and it always happens. Fast if it didn't happen, fast
you could get away from. It people always, say, well
it happens so. Fast, yeah if it happened, slowly you
would have. Left that's that's just the nature of the.
Beast these folks get kicked out of a. Bar they
got trespassed and, said, okay you got to. Leave you
can't stay. Here they're ticked off at somebody probably got
(34:35):
into some kind of fight or altercation inside the. Bar
go out, there they see these two people roll up
and they think they were part of that earlier.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
Group.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Misidentification it doesn't make any. Difference if they jump, you grab,
you pull you. Out i'm not sure how they ended
up getting out of the, vehicle pull them out or whatever.
Happened when they start beating, you and now we have
the videos of this from all over the, world and
they throw you on the, ground and typically what happens
(35:08):
is they start kicking and. Stomping now you're breaking ribs
and fracturing, skulls which is what happened in this. Case
you are moments away from being killed or suffering life changing.
Injuries that's the very definition of when you, can in,
fact legally use lethal force to protect yourself or someone.
(35:31):
Else and people will, say, well you know they didn't
have a. Gun they're beating, them they're breaking ribs or
stomping on their. Head, now got no problem with. THAT
i don't have any insight information on this other than
What michael told us and what the news story is.
SAYING i think probably this employee is going to be okay.
(35:56):
Legally if you got any thoughts on, this give me a.
Call we can talk about it right. Now eat six
six talk gun Or tom talk. Gun as you put
on your gun each, day AND i hope you. Do
if you, don't it love to know. Why it's, like,
well you KNOW i live in a safe. Area, well
these people lived in a safe. Area well you Know
i'm never out late at. Night this was like a
(36:18):
thirty in the. Evening they'd just gone from a restaurant
going to another, restaurant and maybe they were going to a.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Bar but In.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Texas they've got laws about. THAT i guarantee you these
folks knew what the laws, were and we're going to
take care of, them whether that meant leaving a gun
in the car or. Whatever the Point i'm, MAKING i
guess is that it happens. Everywhere it can happen to,
(36:46):
anybody And i'm always amazed at people, who for whatever
reason shrug it off and, go, yeah But i'm not
going to carry a.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
Gun. OKAY i don't understand. It but, Okay.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
I'm going to depend upon WHAT i, mean, seriously what
are you going to depend upon for your? Safety your? Phone,
really assuming you could even get to your phone if
you get jumped by twelve, people you Won't assuming you
could get your phone and call for, help when's you
going to get there five? Minutes are you willing to
(37:22):
let twelve people beat on you and stomp your head
into the concrete for five, minutes maybe kill, you maybe
blinds you for, life maybe put you in a wheelchair for.
Life because of? Why, seriously because of?
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Why?
Speaker 4 (37:43):
What why did you Decide i'm not going to carry a.
Gun guns are easy to. Carry.
Speaker 5 (37:51):
Now we got a lot of easy to.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
CARRY i, mean even if it's a snubnose, revolver it's,
worthwhile it's. Useful probably want to stop. This generally, speaking
when one or more people attack, somebody as soon as
somebody shoots back at, them they stop, attacking just almost,
always so you don't necessarily need the latest. GREATEST i,
(38:14):
MEAN i like to hea the latest, greatest you, know
forty two mega shot nine plus six whatever it, is millimeter.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
Thing but you know what they, said, well what are the?
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Odds well the odds are, small you're going to get,
Attacked but you know, what they Aren't they aren't. Zero
the odds are never zero that any given day you're
not going to be the victim of a. Crime if
it's not, zero what actions are you taking to, Say,
okay if this low percentage thing, happens and now it's
(38:46):
a very high percentage That i'm going to get hurt or,
killed or maybe my child, is or maybe my spouse, is.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
What are you prepared to?
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Do just you, know it's a philosophical, question but it's
also a very real practical. Question, YEAH i just throw
it out. THERE i, mean, look do you do You
i'm going to do. Me i'm trying to do is
encourage people to give it some thought and go wonder
WHAT i would do it in a situation like that
eight six' six.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
Talk gun i'm. Top gresser this this, Gun, TALK.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Well i just can't face the face with the reality
that you get rusty and, stuff shooting INCLUDING where, i
live we get a lot of snow through a good
bit of, the winter and it's difficult to get out.
To shoot i'm in. THE winter i have a two
hour drive each way from the nearest. Shooting, range yeah
two hours. Each way as, A result i don't get
(39:51):
to shoot a lot in. The winter now the. Snow's
GONE now i get. To shoot and we were out
the other day and shooting several. Different guns it was
a reminder of how rusty you can get With a
now we're talking to lay off of a, few months not.
A lot but imagine if you're a person only shoots
(40:14):
once a year and goes out and shoots a couple
of boxes of ammo in your head and this IS
what i find in. My, head well put it back.
To me i'm as good as. Ever was it's. All
there it's all in. My Head what i'm remembering is
the LAST time i shot and HOW good, i was
or me yocre. Or whatever but, you know whatever the.
(40:35):
Level is and then you get the gun OUT like,
i did, and, go huh there's those old bad. Habits
again look at those shots going low. And left you.
Better concentrate, oh look you're not recovering. Very quickly you
need to grip the pistol a whole. Lot tighter you
(40:56):
have a loose grip on. That gun you've just. GOTTEN
sloppy i just throw it out, and, SAY look i
probably have shot more than a lot. OF people i
certainly shot more guns than a lot, of people different types.
Of guns just the nature of the business of fifty
years of writing. About guns when they, Come out i'd
(41:17):
get a new gun, to try or get invited to
media events we are trying a lot of. Different guns
or FOR the tv PROGRAMS that i had produced and directed,
AND hosted, i mean we would have ended up opening
up a cardboard box full of pistols that have different,
been shot turn the, camera on start pulling, them out
and start. Shooting them and you've got to be able to,
(41:37):
handle it every different kind of gun and try to shoot.
It well and if you're tuned up, in practice you can.
Do that, GOOD boy i. Tell you talk about your. Perishable,
Skill wow and there's just it doesn't take, very much as,
you know only too well to have a bad trigger
press and it throws your. Shots off and, IT'S like
(42:00):
i got to pay attention to the. DETAILS here i
Guess what i'm saying is that take advantage of the
fact that you're not as good as you think.
Speaker 5 (42:12):
You are that, Sounds, Weird tom what do you mean to?
Take advantage you?
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Know what. That means that means you get to. Go
shooting take advantage. Of it because shooting, is fine go
out and do some more. Of, it, yeah, YEAH yeah i.
Know that PEOPLE say ammo. Is, expensive yep. It is
and when you need to make, that shot when you
need it more than anything in, The world, trust me
(42:42):
you're not going to care how much you Spent on
ammo practicing to make sure you can make the shot
you need. To make, people, say well how hard is
it to? Help, ATTACKER well i, don't KNOW because i
don't know what your situation is going. TO be i
don't know if they're gonna be one foot away from
you and, a huge bulking guy are twenty feet away from.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
You and hiding behind a loved one and you've got
to make. A shot i.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
Don't know you. Don't know why not train to be
the best you can, possibly be and, oh yeah by,
the way have a lot of fun, doing it because
remember that. Secret weapon we have the secret that we
tend to not share for some.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
Weird reason the secret is that shooting. GETS fun i love.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Getting out there with my friends and, YOU shoot, I
shoot we'll. Compare groups we'll. Do this maybe maybe offer
thoughts to. Each other maybe sometimes, SHE'S thinking i don't
want to hear anybody else tell Me what i'm. DOING
wrong i gotta work on, this myself or maybe even
go take a.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
Class somewhere our numbers eight Six six talk Gun, or tom.
Talk gun we're. Open lines give me, a holler we'll.
Talk guns
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to perform when it counts. Known for accuracy, durability, and reliability,
CZ stands apart. CZ built for those who demand more.
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
Upgrade your optic with Hollison where innovation meets precision. With
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are Holosen confidence in every shot.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
He was the first and he's still the best. For
thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
all things ballistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection, deep
part of it, Paul, Tom Talk Gun. Now here's Tom.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
All right, and let's do this thing. Hey, I'm Tom Gresham.
I'm the host and we're going to be talked about
guns for the next twelve hours, hours and hours. Yeah,
and we'll do it on the show, and then we'll
do it act the show, and then we'll do it
all week low because that's what we do. We talk
about guns all the time. That's why we call this
Gun Talk. And you could be a part of that.
Just give me a call eight six six Talk Gun
or Tom Talk Gun, same number. Just different ways of
(01:10):
finding there. Confession time a little bit later, I'll tell
you I bought another gun that I didn't need. Yeah,
real surprise, right. It was in the gun store and
it was a good price, and so I said, now
I'm not gonna get that. I'm gonna do that. And
then the next week I'm back in there and it's
(01:31):
still there. That's all I needed. So well, we'll get
some details on that. Yeah, I really needed another pistol,
another nineteen eleven, right, like I never had a nineteen eleven.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
A lot of things going on.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
We're gonna have a report of a couple of gun
store employees who got jumped and mugged by several people.
Didn't turn out well for the several people, so we'll
have really some good information on that. A lot of
things going on. Some special guns being offered, some limited runs,
we'll cover that as well. Les some things you could
do to your guns to make them better. A lot
(02:02):
of things going on. But of course, if you have
a range report, did you go shooting this week, did
you go buy a gun, we'd love to hear about that.
Just give you a holler and we will talk about that.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Now.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
I mentioned just a second ago that I bought another
nineteen eleven. Yeah, I got a lot of them because
I like them. It probably is my favorite platform. And
in the world of nineteen eleven's there are names that
stand out.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
There's one out.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
There that you know, if you ever shot much with pistols,
you probably at some point have done what is called
the Bill drill. It's just a simple drill that you
do to test and work on your shooting ability. Well
where'd that come from? Well, it came from our next guests,
Bill Wilson from Wilson Combat joins us right now.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Bill, thanks for being here. I am so glad to
have you.
Speaker 6 (02:46):
Well, thanks for having me on. Tom.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
You bet, I mean you.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
For those who don't know, you really were one of
the pioneers in competitive action pistol shooting. You tinkered with stuff.
You were like one of the very top shooters, and
you know USPSA and ipsick and founded IDPA and in
the process, like a lot of competitive shooters, you said,
you know, I need a better gun, but i'd like
(03:11):
a lot of people, you said, well, I'll just build
it right.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
Yeah, that's pretty much how it happened.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
What made you think that you could build a better gun.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
Well. I grew up in a family that ran a
jewelry store for fifty three years. My dad was a
watchmaker and he wanted me to take the jewelry store over.
So to appease him, I went to watch and jewelry
making school, and a lot of the skills that I learned,
especially making clock parks and things like that and jewelry,
(03:45):
you know, were skills that could easily be transferred over
to working on firearms. So that's kind of why I
figured I had the skill level to do it. So
then I had to learn, you know, I had to
get the knowledge. And I was so fortunate that Jim
Clark Senior and Armon Swinson took me under their wing
and helped me on the knowledge side of it from
(04:08):
the early days.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah, Jim Clark Junior the first civilian to win the
National pistol Championship at Camp Berry and then of course
became the ultimate gunsmith, pistol gunsmith operating out of the
Streeport area. We knew him, knew Jim Junior, and you
know the family and for those who haven't put it
all together, that's part of the family of Jerry Mitchllick
and k Clark Mitchellick. So that dynasty just continues. That's
(04:32):
a pretty good lineage.
Speaker 6 (04:35):
Absolutely, they're great, great people. They're always always very helpful
to me, as was Armon Swinson's who's kind of the
godfather of you know, custom nineteen elevens.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, all right, So what is and a lot of
people know the name Wilson Combat if they don't think
a look at that Wilsoncombat dot com. You make really
really fine pistols primarily. I mean people I know you
for the nineteen eleven. You've got others and we'll talk
about this new and you just introduced through second, What
is it that makes a really good nineteen eleven? Because
(05:09):
I mean you could buy a nineteen eleven from five
hundred dollars up to fifteen thousand dollars years come in,
you know forward, Yeah, what three to six ballpark?
Speaker 5 (05:21):
What is it that makes a really good nineteen eleven?
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Well, the first thing is build it with really high
quality components. You know, every component in the nineteen eleven
that we build is either fully machined from a forging
or fully machine from a piece of barstock. We don't
use a single casting or men part in any of
our guns. So that's one of the big differences right there.
(05:51):
And then you know, holding tight tolerances where you know,
it doesn't take a ton of fitting to fit them
up really really tired and real good because the more
material you have to remove by hand, the more chance
to that there is that you can get something out
of spect. So we we we try to make our
(06:14):
components where there are just a few thousands extra material
so we can you know, get a real perfect fit,
but not not get anything you know, kind of caddywompush.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
You know, you also got to.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Have some really good people that know how to build
these things because they're still handwork involved.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
Oh yeah, a lot of a lot of handwork on
the nineteen eleven side. Uh, and we're fortunate we've got
some extremely talented people, you know, some of them that
that have have been with us, you know, over forty years,
so we've got to we've got really a lot of
depth and experience you know, of our of our gunsmiths,
and uh, they're they're just you know, really good people
(06:58):
just found earth actually just get good old country boys
that's got lots of handskills and got a lot of
knowledge about how to build guns just up there.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
In the Ozarks in northern Arkansas and building guns.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
Yeah, right right in the heart of the Ozarks.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
All right.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
So I got a question for what if you got
against hogs because you kind of like to shoot hogs.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Don't you.
Speaker 6 (07:20):
That's kind of my passionate life is the hog gun.
And there great now that I've been the bullet and
ammo business so heavily, it's it's just a great place
to test product too.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Oh sure, yeah, we're testing product, That's what we're doing.
Ye know, I've been doing that for years. I could
write off guns, so why not. Why wouldn't we test
product on hogs? I like it for those who don't know,
you built some really good ars. But also you got
into the ammo and the bullet business with the Lehigh
and so.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
You're all over the place.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
You got long guns and handguns and suppressors and ammo
and bullets and custom work and you can people can
send their guns to you. But I want to talk
about this new gun that's actually kind of the Experior
Elite double Stack. It's new, but it's kind of a throwback.
Didn't you kind of have something like that before?
Speaker 6 (08:10):
We had the original Experience, which you know we're still making. Uh.
And basically the difference is h you know, the original
experience was pretty much just a fixed site iron sight
gun and they had their standard frame with with no
enlarged magwell and and had a different texture really than
(08:31):
what we do on some of it now. So we
built this what you know in a house. We call
it the white slide that you know, it's basically a
slide that's got our new pin system for mounting a
red dot, which will allow you to mount almost any
red dot on the market directly to the slide, you know,
(08:52):
without a without an interference plate. And uh. And then
the we've got a real tasteful maguell that's very functional,
but it's not too big in my opinion, and it
really gives a good grip for people with larger hands.
You know, my buddy Ken Hacklo has been here the
last few days and uh, he just fell in love
(09:12):
with this gun because the distance between the bottom oftery
guard and the top of the large part of the
magwell just fits his hand perfect. And he said, I've
never had one I get such a good grip on
as is this gun here.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
And this is designed and built as primarily as a
defensive or a carry gun, that'd be right.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Well, I would say it's more of an all around gun.
I mean it's you know, they make it, they're going
to make a great range gun as well as a
carry gun, and and it's large enough to be a
service pistol with it needed needed, you know that that
use that we need to use it for that.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
So what's the thinking behind this when you you looked
at the market, looked everything you made, and you said,
there's a hole here we got to fill. What was
the conversation like to come up with this?
Speaker 6 (10:07):
Well, I mean, as you know, you know twenty eleven
you know, design pistols are pretty popular now, and you know,
with twenty elevens based on you know, a platform that
was regally designed to be a forty five auto, so
it uses a long magazine, which is pretty problematic, you
know with a nine millimeter And that's why we did
(10:29):
We designed our Excen platform based on a proven magazine.
We basically built a gun around the magazine, you know,
and so we feel like we have a better mouse trap.
And you know, some of the twenty elevens had some
features that some of our X Lins didn't, and so
(10:50):
we've kind of covered our bases on that now. And
you know, I think I think this new Experior Elite
you know, is better, is a better platform than in
the twenty eleven, and I know it is for reliability.
You know, I challenge anybody that makes the twenty eleven
to test their gun against ours with a thousand rounds
(11:10):
of PMC one seven flat point American Eagle and see
see who comes out on top for function.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
You sound like you've done exactly that.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
Well, it's it's the hardest, but you know, factory load
there is out there to feed. I mean, if you're
if your gun will reliably feed Federal one forty seven
flat point American Eagle, you can pretty well be assured
that it'll feed any hallow point in the market or
anything else, because that AMMO is loaded way too short
with a really blunt bullet. You know, I don't know
(11:43):
why Federal loads it to dagum short, because I mean,
if they just linked in the overall link a little bit,
that stuff would feed a whole lot better. But it's
great for testing guns straight for testing guns.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
And if Bill Wilson says that, I believe and this
new one carries your standard accuracy guarantee an inch and
a half to twenty five yards.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
Oh yes, yeah, they'll they'll easily. They'll easily do that
with with quality. Ammo. Wow, they won't they won't. They
won't do that with some of the the especially the
imported one fifteen grain.
Speaker 5 (12:13):
Ye, Jack is now the chief practice. That house is
not that good.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
Yeah, that mean some of that stuff won't shoot three
inches in in the most accurate nineteen eleven they ever built.
Speaker 7 (12:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Wow, Okay, it's Wilsoncombat dot Com. Take a look at
It's called the Experior Elite Double Stack. It is the
latest and greatest from Bill Wilson and Bill we love
to see what comes out of your head. I mean,
we got to get you back on here when we've
got some more time.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
Okay, one one last thing, if you'll get me one
one more minute here, Yeah, go ahead, say thing. We're
we're launching a totally new design handgun on the twenty
sixth of the month, on April twenty six Watch watch
for that. They're going to be You're gonna you're gonna
be surprised what we bring out on on April.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Twenty You're talking about totally new type of handgun for.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
You, totally new design. Thanks, thanks you to pay.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
For gun, all right, Wilsoncombat dot com. Check it out
and you can follow him on Facebook and everywhere else
you can follow us.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
We'll have the news as soon as it breaks. Bill,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
Thank you, appreciate you having it all right.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
You take care, all right, Borton, break the news right there.
Did not know that?
Speaker 7 (13:23):
All right?
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Eighty six to six, talk gun.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
We'll get you in here. I'm Tom Gresham. What have
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Speaker 4 (16:19):
Oh I follow up. We just had Bill Wilson on
from Wilson Combat.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
That was fun.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
You talk about an icon and gun making as well
as in competition, I mean early shooter for IPsec shooting
action pistol. He created the IDPA concept, the competition, the organization,
the whole thing. He was right there making it all
happen and of course kind of redefining what a high
level nineteen eleven was it is. But he was talking
(16:48):
about this brand new experior Elite double stack pistol and
I know I didn't get it out there, but on
the website it looks like it's thirty nine ninety nine
call it four grand. And that's about where Wilson Combat
pistols are and it's for a lot of people. His
guns are aspirational. That is one of these days I
would like to have kind of thing. I've always wanted
(17:09):
to have a Wilson combat and then people finally get one,
they go yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Okay, yeah, it's that good. Yeah. It lived up to
its billing.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
He At the very end, he threw out, they're going
to have a new pistol, blank sheet of paper pistol.
They're gonna be announcing April twenty six. He said, yeah,
I know a little bit about it. I'll throw one
hen out. I'm not supposed to talk about it, but
I can just tell you this. You're gonna like the price.
(17:37):
Let's just say it that way. Okay, fair enough, all right,
Speaking of price, I go to the local gun store
and they got a pistol sitting in there and went, WHOA,
what's that? And they have used guns and assignment guns,
and thinking, huh, that's kind of cool looking nineteen eleven.
What does that get out? It's dan Weshon doesn't Dan
Wesson Specialist. And that's a model they have, and it's
(18:02):
the black version. They've got chrome and it got black.
The black is more expensive. I'm looking on their website
right now, nsrp on it is. They've gone up, man,
everything's gone up. Thirty two hundred bucks for a Dan
Weston specialist. And it's in ten millimeter, and I'm looking
at this. I'm like, yeah, okay, well it's one of
(18:24):
those deals to be careful when you shoot your mouth off,
because I looked at it and said, that's nice. You know,
it's look at the prices. That's actually a pretty decent price.
That's a that's an attractive price. But I got ten milimeters.
I don't need another ten millimeters, right, And I have
nineteen eleven, so I don't need another nineteen eleven, right, sure,
So I don't buy it. I don't, you know, that's fine,
(18:44):
thanks guys. So I come back the next week. The
Dame thing is still there, and I'm talking to the
manager and we're talking guns and this and that, and
I'm looking at that and I said, yeah, you know,
we're in a small area, small town, not a lot
of people, probably not a lot of ten millimeter, maybe
not a lot of nineteen eleven guys. You're gonna have
trouble moving that. He said, we think we're too high.
(19:06):
I said, yeah, I think probably. You know, I said, look,
you know I would be interested at blank and named
the number. Well, stupid Tom. He said, well, let's just
get that written up. Huh so yeah, bought it, brought
it home, went out shot it. Holy Cow does nothing
(19:28):
shoot nice? And then I got two more than just
sent in because we're doing some stuff with Dan Wesson.
I got the DWX Compact. Holy Cow is not a
nice pistol. And I also got the what do they
call the Guardian. It's a Commander size nineteen eleven with
(19:48):
the rounded but they don't call it bob tail. I
think they called it rounded, but it's one of those
features that you see on carry guns a lot have
it put a lot of rounds three E the one
so far. So I don't have a full comment on them,
other than to say they both shoot really well. The
(20:09):
uh well, both of them are spectacularly accurate. The DWX
feels different. It's I call it the love child between
a CZ seventy five at a nineteen eleven.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
It's kind of a cool gun.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Double stack nine, the Guardian's double stack nine Commander I am,
and I'd like to get your thoughts on this, if
you have experience with it, what you think about the
rounded butt or bobtail on a nineteen eleven grip. Supposedly
it's done so that it's easier to conceal and does
(20:45):
a print you don't have the little part stick it
out of the butt. I'm not convinced that's such a
big deal. It may be more of a style issue.
I also am unsure whether it affects the grip now
I need to shoot it. Going back and forth between
that another one, I'm still making up my mind on that.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Things use like a house of fire.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
But I only have like four magazines put through each
of them, and I would never trust a carry gun
until I had probably I don't know, three hundred rounds
through it. I mean, I hear people say different things,
but let's just pick a number. Three hundred rounds and
I would like to sure there's a break in period
(21:25):
on guns, but I would like to have like the
last one hundred rounds go through without any issues, no
feeding issues, nothing, just run smooth. And of course I
loopen them both up to get them going. So you know,
that's pretty sweet. But Ben, you know, there's just nothing
like a really good, well built nineteen eleven or a
(21:48):
nineteen eleven Ish gun, which makes me interested in whatever
Bill Wilson's could be coming out with that's gonna be fun,
just a lot of cool things. And the ten, well,
it's the ten, you know, like, what can I tell you?
I like tens?
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Fair enough? All right?
Speaker 4 (22:03):
So this thing happened in Austin, Texas a little bit ago.
Two employees from a gun store get jumped by a
bunch of people. It may have been as many as
a dozen. We'll get the details in a few minutes here.
Didn't end up well for the attackers. But as we
always know, this naftermath to everything that'll be coming up
short and we'll have that report and immediately when we
(22:24):
come back. You can join us right here by calling
eight six' Six Talk. Gun I'm Tom gresham and this
is gun.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Talk.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Hi this is gun talk where we always are asking
the question what have you been? Shooting or maybe you
bought a gun? Recently, YEAH i. DID i bought another
GUN i didn't, need so what big? Deal added to the.
List we talk about self defense with guns a lot
around here because it is always has been the number
one reason that people buy and own, guns and every
(22:57):
survey ever done the answer is always self defense comes
up number. One, well and then we have these examples
And none of us wants to end up using a
gun self. Defense none of us wants to shoot, somebody
but we have it because somebody else made that. Happen
joining me right now Is Michael. Cargill he's been a
(23:17):
guest on the show here a number of. Times he,
is of, course the owner Of Central Texas Gun, works
an army veteran farms, instructor taught more than fifty thousand
people that required information about security material AND ccw down In, Austin.
Texas Hey, michael welcome.
Speaker 7 (23:35):
Back, Awesome thank, you. SIR i appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Today you bet.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Okay so look at this story and, went holy, cow
that's That's, michael this. Thing you just had two of
your employees get involved in a self defense. Shooting why
DON'T i step aside and you could explain what happened
in the.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Circumstances, sure.
Speaker 9 (23:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (23:56):
So it Was friday night and my employees decide they
were going to go from a restaurant to another establishment
to enjoy. Themselves so they, were they pulled into the parking,
lot and just before they actually pulled into the parking,
lot there's a group of people apparently got into some
altercation inside this, business this, establishment so they were trespassed
(24:18):
and kicked out of the. Business, so once they were
kicked out of the, business my employees pulled into the
parking lot and ran into that group that was kicked
out of the. Business and so unbeknownst to, them you,
know that there was some type of. Confrontation these people
thought that my employees who were in the parking lot
(24:39):
were part of the group that was responsible for them
getting kicked, out and decided to attack them while they
were in their vehicle in the parking. Lot and so
somehow employees end up out of the vehicle in the
parking lot and it turned into twelve people attacking two
of my. Employees and it was just something that escalate
it really fat and to the point that they got
(25:01):
my employees down on the ground started pouncing on. Them
this lasted for quite a, while about a minute of
them being attacked by twelve people versus two on the.
Ground my employee thought that these guys are trying to kill.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
Us you.
Speaker 7 (25:14):
Know one employee had several fractures in his, face his,
skull he has his eyes, closed he has broken ribs
because it was being pounded on on the. Ground my
employee looked over at him and, thinking, man you, know
they wouldn't, stop he, Said he told, me he, Said,
michael they just would not. Stop you, know it just
kept going and it kept. Going he, SAID i couldn't
(25:36):
get them to, stop and so he had no choice
but to pull out his gun and stop.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Them, so, yeah twelve on two and if this is
one of those happenstances because people, said we, know if
you leave, it lead a good.
Speaker 5 (25:47):
Life you know you're not going to need your.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Gun, well these guys just pulled up into the parking
lot and it was mistaken identity where these other guys
thought that your employees were part of the problem they
just were dealing. With they get jumped out of. Nowhere
so you got a twelve on two. Deal and then
one of your employees pulls a gun and, SHOOTS i
guess killed one of the.
Speaker 7 (26:06):
Attackers, Correct so one person's, dead there's several. Injured and to,
me it's going to be totally justified because you, know
he was in the you, know his mindset was they're
trying to kill, us and it just wouldn't. Stop and
he looked over the one employee he had been knocked
unconscious on the, ground still still being stumped by six
other people while he's on the ground. Unconscious you, know
(26:27):
at some, point you know it's got to.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
Give so this just happened two days.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
Ago, yes that's.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Correct, well what's the situation with your. EMPLOYEES i know
one went to the, hospital the one who ended up.
Shooting what's his status.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Or there with law?
Speaker 7 (26:43):
Enforcement, Right so they both wind up in the hospital that,
night both of my. Employees so they're both out of
the hospital now and one is actually in the county
jail currently because just because the nature of the business of,
things you, know there's a, shooting multiple people are, injured
so you, know with all the, confusion because the, confusion
(27:06):
and the REASON i stepped, in the REASON i made
a statement about this is because everyone was saying that
my employees were inside the, bar and they absolutely were.
Not so we all learned that with security camera footage and.
Everything my guys that never stepped foot in that. Place
my guys were in their. Vehicle that was the. Key
they're in their. Vehicle this started while my employees were
(27:27):
in the vehicle just pulling in the parking. Lot they
never were part of that. Group that was inside the.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Bar, Okay, michael you've taught this stuff for years and
years and. Years you taught The texas law on self
defense with guns and where you can go and where you,
can't and when you can and when you can't shoot
what you should. DO i, mean you know the stuff
forward and, backwards probably as well or better than anybody
in the prosecutor's office over.
Speaker 5 (27:50):
There what does your take on?
Speaker 7 (27:52):
THIS i think if the nature of the business when
you're involved in a self defense, shooting and this is
going to Be Travis, county The liberal, mecca and so you,
know their their thing is, fine we're just gonna charge
this kid with. Murder we're gonna lock them, up take
them the, jail and then you, know and push into
the system and let this go to the grand jury
and let a grand jury decide whether or not to
either invite him or no bill. Him that's just that's what's.
(28:14):
Happened that's what happens in The liberal. City knowing that
he you, know they knew immediately that he worked at
the gun stores because he had you, know he had
on our, shirt the, uniform and so they knew where
he worked and.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Everything so that's.
Speaker 7 (28:27):
And that's WHY i came out and made a, statement
because everybody's gonna. Know and so IF i didn't say,
something then people will, wonder why didn't you say? Something
michael always talks on the. News how come he's not saying.
Anything it's either you, know damn that do or damn that.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Don't, yeah AND i heard people online, saying were, You
i'm not sure i'd want my boss commenting on.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
That, well this is not just your average every day.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Boss you you are a public figure when it comes
to guns and gun rights In texas and self defense
and teaching people to use. Guns, so as you, say
it would have been kind of odd and actually would
have made a.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
Statement if you hadn't made a.
Speaker 7 (28:59):
Statement it would have been a very big. Deal IF
i hadn't said anything about this at, all that people
would be very skeptical and it would be worse. Situation you,
know Because i'm the two. Eight you, Know i'm a
TWO a. Person i'm the person to beat The United
states government in The United States Supreme, court, right the
one who's who's won a case against The Austin Police
department for. Defamation i'm the one who's won a court
(29:19):
case against the, constable a sitting, constable elected constable for
defamation in. Court i'd beat every court case that That
i've ever. Had and so for me not to say
something being a two a person and this person is
a direct employee of, mine would have been a really big.
Deal something is? Up why is he not?
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Talking, okay let me ask a question. Here and there's
not going to surprise. You this is coming your. Way
given everything you just ran out and all the interactions
you've had with local law enforcement ensuing and all the
rest of. It could your employee be taking the broad
of this because of how they feel.
Speaker 7 (29:58):
About, you that that also could be a, possibility you,
Know but he's been treated actually quite, well treated. Great
we have a great legal, team wonderful legal team that
have actually visited. Him we're just waiting on the system
has to work itself. Out so there's a process seventy
two hours you, know before you can see you, know
(30:18):
they have to see a magistrate and stuff like. That
there's a time frame in. There so everything that's happening
is is pretty. Normal AND i told him, that you,
KNOW i told the, employee you're going to be, Arrested
you're going to go to. Jail, yes you're going to
sit in jail for a couple of.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
Days you.
Speaker 7 (30:34):
KNOW i told him, this you, know BECAUSE i was
able to make it to the scene and So i'm you,
Know i'm followed him with all. This this is what's
going to. Happen don't be, surprised you. Know so you,
KNOW i want you to expect. This and so that's
just how the process.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Works, yeah and it's act just a good thing for
everybody to. Understand, look if you are in a self defense,
situation you end up using your gun self. Defense, look
the police roll up and somebody got, shot or maybe
somebody got, killed their natural reaction to that is somebody's
going to get. Arrested and then we're going to let
the prosecutor's, office a DA's office sort it all. Out
(31:08):
but on our side of, things we're going to arrest
somebody on.
Speaker 7 (31:11):
This there's no in the world that you, know one
person's gonna, die four or five people get, injured they
all wind up in the, hospital and someone's not going
to be in handcuffed the.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
People that's not that's not. Reality that's it's.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Just going to.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Happen and you got to know that and you know
it goes to the. Port you talk about having good legal.
REPRESENTATION i have become a strong believer in making sure
you've got some kind of program with one of the
organizations to have some kind of legal.
Speaker 7 (31:37):
Protection where do you, think absolutely you would be crazy
to carry a firearm in this country and not have
some type of legal. Plan you're expected to defend, yourself
to protect, yourself if you're expected to protect your. Family
but when you, do you down nine to one one
and then you hang up that. Phone you call your
attorney and let your attorney to be the one that
(31:57):
talks for you to law, enforcement and you exercise your
right to remain.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Silent, Yeah and that's not saying that you're guilty or anything.
Else it's just saying this is these are my. RIGHTS
i have my, rights And i'm going to exercise my.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
Rights right at exactly Exactly and part of the you,
know part of you not giving them the details that they,
need you, know which you know you're you, know you're
caught up in the in the, moments in the. Hype
your blood pressure is. High you just shot, someone maybe
experience something in their experienced before in your. Life, uh
you really don't want to talk in a time frame like.
(32:30):
That you, know that's not the moment in time to
actually start. Talking you want to shut, up close your,
mouth zip, it you, know and exercise that right that
you know that's written in the.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Constitution are your employees going to be? Okay are they physically?
Speaker 7 (32:44):
Okay, yes they're going to be. Fine you know they're
they're going to. Heal you, KNOW i got one that's
taken you, know quite a few days. Off you, know
he's going to be. Fine we're taking good care of,
him making sure that we're making sure he's eating and you,
know getting the, medicine pain pills and stuff like, that you,
know to be taken care. Of you, know these, GUYS
i love these. Guys these guys take care of, me
(33:05):
and so when they're in, need And i'll make Sure
i'm going to take care.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Of, them all.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Right the story Of Central texas gun works right there In.
Austin are you like Downtown? Austin where are you look at?
Speaker 7 (33:15):
It not too far from downtown between downtown and the,
airport you, know right On Ben white here Between South
first And.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
CONGRESS i know right where you. ARE i get down
To fluckerville a good.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Bill that's where my daughter, lives SO i know the area.
Speaker 9 (33:28):
Absolutely thank.
Speaker 7 (33:29):
You SO i appreciate. It LIKE i always, say you,
know more guns because less. Crime go out there and
buy yourself a.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Gun there you, Go Michael, cargill thank you so. MUCH
i appreciate, you.
Speaker 7 (33:38):
Sir, yes, yes, sir thank.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
You you have a great, day you.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
Too, well there you.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Go that is about as close to first, person you,
know self defense situations you're going to. Get With michael
running it, down people, say, well why is he, Speaking,
well we just figured it.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
Out that makes.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Sense and, also as she, says he's been, involved he's
One Supreme court. Lawsuits he's one number of. These he
is a guy as well as being a cacealed carry
instructor and a gun. Guy talk about, happenstance wrong, place wrong,
time you could call it. THAT i just, say, look
(34:13):
stuff happens and you don't know where it's gonna, happen
and it always happens. Fast if it didn't happen, fast
you could get away from. It people always, say, well
it happens so. Fast, yeah if it happened, slowly you
would have. Left that's that's just the nature of the.
Beast these folks get kicked out of a. Bar they
got trespassed and, said, okay you got to. Leave you
can't stay. Here they're ticked off at somebody probably got
(34:35):
into some kind of fight or altercation inside the. Bar
go out, there they see these two people roll up
and they think they were part of that earlier.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
Group.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Misidentification it doesn't make any. Difference if they jump, you grab,
you pull you. Out i'm not sure how they ended
up getting out of the, vehicle pull them out or whatever.
Happened when they start beating, you and now we have
the videos of this from all over the, world and
they throw you on the, ground and typically what happens
(35:08):
is they start kicking and. Stomping now you're breaking ribs
and fracturing, skulls which is what happened in this. Case
you are moments away from being killed or suffering life changing.
Injuries that's the very definition of when you, can in,
fact legally use lethal force to protect yourself or someone.
(35:31):
Else and people will, say, well you know they didn't
have a. Gun they're beating, them they're breaking ribs or
stomping on their. Head, now got no problem with. THAT
i don't have any insight information on this other than
What michael told us and what the news story is.
SAYING i think probably this employee is going to be okay.
(35:56):
Legally if you got any thoughts on, this give me a.
Call we can talk about it right. Now eat six
six talk gun Or tom talk. Gun as you put
on your gun each, day AND i hope you. Do
if you, don't it love to know. Why it's, like,
well you KNOW i live in a safe. Area, well
these people lived in a safe. Area well you Know
i'm never out late at. Night this was like a
(36:18):
thirty in the. Evening they'd just gone from a restaurant
going to another, restaurant and maybe they were going to a.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Bar but In.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Texas they've got laws about. THAT i guarantee you these
folks knew what the laws, were and we're going to
take care of, them whether that meant leaving a gun
in the car or. Whatever the Point i'm, MAKING i
guess is that it happens. Everywhere it can happen to,
(36:46):
anybody And i'm always amazed at people, who for whatever
reason shrug it off and, go, yeah But i'm not
going to carry a.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
Gun. OKAY i don't understand. It but, Okay.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
I'm going to depend upon WHAT i, mean, seriously what
are you going to depend upon for your? Safety your? Phone,
really assuming you could even get to your phone if
you get jumped by twelve, people you Won't assuming you
could get your phone and call for, help when's you
going to get there five? Minutes are you willing to
(37:22):
let twelve people beat on you and stomp your head
into the concrete for five, minutes maybe kill, you maybe
blinds you for, life maybe put you in a wheelchair for.
Life because of? Why, seriously because of?
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Why?
Speaker 4 (37:43):
What why did you Decide i'm not going to carry a.
Gun guns are easy to. Carry.
Speaker 5 (37:51):
Now we got a lot of easy to.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
CARRY i, mean even if it's a snubnose, revolver it's,
worthwhile it's. Useful probably want to stop. This generally, speaking
when one or more people attack, somebody as soon as
somebody shoots back at, them they stop, attacking just almost,
always so you don't necessarily need the latest. GREATEST i,
(38:14):
MEAN i like to hea the latest, greatest you, know
forty two mega shot nine plus six whatever it, is millimeter.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
Thing but you know what they, said, well what are the?
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Odds well the odds are, small you're going to get,
Attacked but you know, what they Aren't they aren't. Zero
the odds are never zero that any given day you're
not going to be the victim of a. Crime if
it's not, zero what actions are you taking to, Say,
okay if this low percentage thing, happens and now it's
(38:46):
a very high percentage That i'm going to get hurt or,
killed or maybe my child, is or maybe my spouse, is.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
What are you prepared to?
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Do just you, know it's a philosophical, question but it's
also a very real practical. Question, YEAH i just throw
it out. THERE i, mean, look do you do You
i'm going to do. Me i'm trying to do is
encourage people to give it some thought and go wonder
WHAT i would do it in a situation like that
eight six' six.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
Talk gun i'm. Top gresser this this, Gun, TALK.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Well i just can't face the face with the reality
that you get rusty and, stuff shooting INCLUDING where, i
live we get a lot of snow through a good
bit of, the winter and it's difficult to get out.
To shoot i'm in. THE winter i have a two
hour drive each way from the nearest. Shooting, range yeah
two hours. Each way as, A result i don't get
(39:51):
to shoot a lot in. The winter now the. Snow's
GONE now i get. To shoot and we were out
the other day and shooting several. Different guns it was
a reminder of how rusty you can get With a
now we're talking to lay off of a, few months not.
A lot but imagine if you're a person only shoots
(40:14):
once a year and goes out and shoots a couple
of boxes of ammo in your head and this IS
what i find in. My, head well put it back.
To me i'm as good as. Ever was it's. All
there it's all in. My Head what i'm remembering is
the LAST time i shot and HOW good, i was
or me yocre. Or whatever but, you know whatever the.
(40:35):
Level is and then you get the gun OUT like,
i did, and, go huh there's those old bad. Habits
again look at those shots going low. And left you.
Better concentrate, oh look you're not recovering. Very quickly you
need to grip the pistol a whole. Lot tighter you
(40:56):
have a loose grip on. That gun you've just. GOTTEN
sloppy i just throw it out, and, SAY look i
probably have shot more than a lot. OF people i
certainly shot more guns than a lot, of people different types.
Of guns just the nature of the business of fifty
years of writing. About guns when they, Come out i'd
(41:17):
get a new gun, to try or get invited to
media events we are trying a lot of. Different guns
or FOR the tv PROGRAMS that i had produced and directed,
AND hosted, i mean we would have ended up opening
up a cardboard box full of pistols that have different,
been shot turn the, camera on start pulling, them out
and start. Shooting them and you've got to be able to,
(41:37):
handle it every different kind of gun and try to shoot.
It well and if you're tuned up, in practice you can.
Do that, GOOD boy i. Tell you talk about your. Perishable,
Skill wow and there's just it doesn't take, very much as,
you know only too well to have a bad trigger
press and it throws your. Shots off and, IT'S like
(42:00):
i got to pay attention to the. DETAILS here i
Guess what i'm saying is that take advantage of the
fact that you're not as good as you think.
Speaker 5 (42:12):
You are that, Sounds, Weird tom what do you mean to?
Take advantage you?
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Know what. That means that means you get to. Go
shooting take advantage. Of it because shooting, is fine go
out and do some more. Of, it, yeah, YEAH yeah i.
Know that PEOPLE say ammo. Is, expensive yep. It is
and when you need to make, that shot when you
need it more than anything in, The world, trust me
(42:42):
you're not going to care how much you Spent on
ammo practicing to make sure you can make the shot
you need. To make, people, say well how hard is
it to? Help, ATTACKER well i, don't KNOW because i
don't know what your situation is going. TO be i
don't know if they're gonna be one foot away from
you and, a huge bulking guy are twenty feet away from.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
You and hiding behind a loved one and you've got
to make. A shot i.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
Don't know you. Don't know why not train to be
the best you can, possibly be and, oh yeah by,
the way have a lot of fun, doing it because
remember that. Secret weapon we have the secret that we
tend to not share for some.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
Weird reason the secret is that shooting. GETS fun i love.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Getting out there with my friends and, YOU shoot, I
shoot we'll. Compare groups we'll. Do this maybe maybe offer
thoughts to. Each other maybe sometimes, SHE'S thinking i don't
want to hear anybody else tell Me what i'm. DOING
wrong i gotta work on, this myself or maybe even
go take a.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
Class somewhere our numbers eight Six six talk Gun, or tom.
Talk gun we're. Open lines give me, a holler we'll.
Talk guns
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