April 26, 2026 • 43 mins
In This Hour:
-- Jarrod Grove from Calwell reveals the latest in the line of Claycopter launchers for wingshooters.
-- What's the advantage of sticking with just one gun for carrying versus trying different models?
-- Even when you can't get to the shooing range you can still practice. Here's how.
Gun Talk 04.26.26 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Jarrod Grove from Calwell reveals the latest in the line of Claycopter launchers for wingshooters.
-- What's the advantage of sticking with just one gun for carrying versus trying different models?
-- Even when you can't get to the shooing range you can still practice. Here's how.
Gun Talk 04.26.26 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. Tom Gresham here, give
me a holler. Of course, it's easy to call you,
and you know, just call me a Tom Talk gun
We're looking at what's going on getting ready for well
the summer season, because people do a lot of shooting
in the summer. Well, I'm here to tell you it's
not too early to start thinking about fall as well,
because if you got something to get ready for the
fall hunting season, we got to talk about that and
(00:38):
to talk about a lot of that and one of
the coolest products, frankly that came out a shot show
where people are going that is amazing. We're joined by
Jerry Grove, also known as Box. How you doing, my friend?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I am doing great? Tom.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, all right, so you guys at the Shot Show launched, Well,
you had to play copter out and then you had
the hand thrower and the cool different targets. If you would,
Let's back up, don't assume that everybody knows what we're
talking about, because this is like, for I want to say,
for clay target shooters, but it's not clay targets. It's
(01:13):
a it's a flying target that you should let's call
it this. It's a flying target you shoot with the shotgun.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
How's that's that's a pretty pretty good description.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
It's a what we like to say is a new
way to clay.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
A new way to clay. It's a thing spins up.
It's got its own little circle with wings, and you
pull the trigger on it and shoot it like a gun.
And this thing goes firing out there, and I mean,
how far is the farthest you can get this thing?
Speaker 4 (01:40):
To go with the clay copper targets. You're right, Tom,
they're a spinning target, and the fastest speed there's different
speed settings. At fifteen thousand RPMs, we can get about
one hundred yards on one of those there and there again,
like the way we say a new way to clay,
if you haven't seen one, they're kind of hard to describe,
(02:01):
but imagine almost like the toy that kids have where
they pull the string and the helicopter thing spins up
and the problems.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yes, it is very that.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
And uh but we we really wanted to. I mean,
clay pigeons are over one hundred and fifty years old.
You know, they were trying to find something besides the
birds and glass balls to shoot.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
So and uh, you know that's been around a long time.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
But we're kind of trying to think of what's the
next thing, what's something to what to how to answer
the some of the pain points of the durability the
transport of a clay pigeons.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Those cases of clay targets are heavy and shipping those
around is a beast and then you got to store
them and everything else and.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
You get a lot of breakage.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, yeah, good point.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
So we we were like, well, portability with a clay thrower,
the target, the launcher, all that's a concern. Uh, easy use,
like pulling springs and heavy springs and stuff. And so
there's been several attempts at a different type of target
and spending props for nothing new. And you know, if
you're really really deep into into shotguns shooting, like like
(03:11):
I am, you know we've shot heelis or zz bird
or whatever you want to call it for a long
time but that that's really really expensive and you have
to have dedicated basically a dedicated range, and there's no
portability to it in the and you know, talking through
the whole thing, and it's like, guys, if you can't
make a target system that the consumer can go get
(03:35):
the consumable part of it, the target where they currently
buy their clay pigeons, then then it's gonna be a
really hard sell. And luckily we worked through all that.
We came up with a target that's made out of
a biodegradable material. They're there, they appear to be plastic,
but I want to be very very clear, they are
not plastic. They're made out of plant starch with some
(03:56):
mineral ground up mineral in them to give them some weight.
They're biodegradable, they're all independently certified, they're non toxic. Very
good that everybody's concerned about plastics these days. But truth
of the matter is the plastic that goes down range
when we're shooting is from the shotgun waden, not from
our target.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Okay, well, there's no classic in that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
And people want to take a look at this Caldwell
Shooting dot com that can see all they need and
there's lots of videos now, but you know you started
with one launcher. Now you got multiple different types of launchers.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
So two years at SHOT we showed the original with
the handheld with a battery, right huge, man, so cool.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
See how fast it took off. We knew at Shot show.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
That year from everybody's feedback, we already had I had
like a five year roadmap. Our execs for saw the excitement.
Our sales team got all the excitement from the buyers,
and they said, we're gonna do all of it right now,
and we're gonna watch it next year's Shot, which I
was like, I thought was very very aggressive, but we put.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You think it okay, we think we can do this, boss.
Thanks ye.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Taking all the all the consumer feedback, and the consumer
feedback kind of just reaffirmed what we were already thinking.
We came up with two new launchers and three new targets.
This year, we came up with another handheld that's strict,
pure mechanical.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
We call Launcher, no battery, no batteries.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Got like a your pull cord like you would on
the lawnmower.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Exactly exactly yet just a pull cord just like your lawnmower,
and we can throw targets, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Easily sixty to eighty yards with that.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
The great thing about that that's going to be somewhere
under one hundred dollars. I've been seeing some of those
on our MSRPs ninety nine to ninety nine street retail
on that.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Is somewhere around ninety dollars.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
So a great way if you're if you don't shoot
a lot and you don't want to spend the two
hundred dollars that the electric one is, here's a way
to experience it, test it out, see if you really
like it. It's something that you're gonna, you know, stick with,
and then you can upgrade. The thing that has everybody
really excited. And the thing that that I thought was
going to take us years and years to develop is
(06:03):
a launcher. Will call them the surface to air and
it is a battery launcher, but it sits on the
ground and holds fifty targets in a stack and so
that will feed and you can remote launch it.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
With a remote so you can kind of think of
it as like a traditional clay target thrower. The way
you can stack them up and it's over there and
you're over here.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
So one of the cool things is that uses an app,
a free app, and you can bluetooth to your phone
and then you can control up to ten devices. You
can launch them from up to one hundred yards away,
and you can do a cool feature. One of my
favorites is touch to launch, where you take a picture
of the downrange and wherever you tap on the screen
(06:49):
is where it will aim and fire the targets. So
it does really cool stuff like that. And then also
that I don't think that anybody can really do on
their own property is it has a UV light built
into the head and we make a glow in the
dark target and the lights charge it, so you can
go out on your own property and shoot these glue
(07:10):
in the dark plays. It's becoming pretty popular at at
Sporting at Sporting Clays.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Range, right, so you can shoots.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Yeah, that requires special lights, right and all sorts of
like stadium whites basically, and.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
This is a UV light that charges the phosphorescent if
you will, in the target and then it fires and
you can see this thing glowing going across.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
The sky exactly and when you hit them, they explode
like fireworks.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Box you know, I've seen two reactions, and almost always
you get the same two reactions when people see this.
The first time they see a target go, it's like wow,
that's fast.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I mean it's like I better get on my game here.
And then the second reaction is people start giggling. It's
like this, this is insane, this is so much fun.
And then of course you go down to the gun
Talk studio said, you're in the studio there, you're trying
to demo this thing. And I don't know if you
met too or what happened, but you let one go
(08:13):
inside the studio. This target is bouncing off of studio
lights and going all over the place. It was like
a scene out of a movie. Man.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Yeah, we we may or may not.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
That was a genuine reaction.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
We we tried it on the low setting, and I
was like, I don't know, and we'll just say.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
kJ did it. Yeah it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
It wasn't.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Mere Ryan, that'd be typical. He says, go ahead and
said it to high. Let's see what happens.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Right, It might have went one notch too many on
the old speed control of it. Yeah, oh god.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
The camera guys are fast on their feet though, in
their own credit getting out of.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
The way they dodged is pretty good.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Well, it is an amazing technology, and for anybody that
likes to shoot shotguns, I would say, take a look
at it and oh yeah. The main thing is that
they want to get out is Yeah, he announced it
the shot Show. Everybod kept saying, well, where is it?
When can I get it? Well, the answer is they
are shipping right now, and in a week or so
they'll be at dealers. Right.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I was so happy last week to come in and
see shipments coming through the warehouse and receiving in and
processing and going through QC and going out and everything
is going just right according to plants.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
And we're hoping around May first.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
The dealers, the retailers are still start having them in
their shelves on their websites for order. We got them
here for May, just in time for the nice weather.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah exactly. I would just tell people, look, if you're
still trying to figure out what we're talking about, honestly,
the best way to go is to go look at
the videos. There are a lot of videos of them online.
We've got them over at our gun Talk website, but
you can go to callwell shooting dot com and look
at the demos there. It's an amazing technology and I
am just excited with what you guys have done.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Yeah, it's been It's been one of my funnest, funnest
things I've ever got to do well.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
And the other thing is that before we go, I
got to say that, Look, we're heading into summer, before
you know it, we're we heading into fall, and a
lot of people wait till the last minute to get
their guns ready to tune things up. And you guys
have products for cleaning guns for reloading and the precision
shooting we were talking about earlier is that everybody's trying
to make better AMMO. I want to say something here
(10:20):
that I haven't mentioned on the air, and I recently
I'm not going to name the company, but I was
recently shooting some AMMO from a brand name company and
it was terrible. I mean, we're talking about some really
lousy accuracy out of what you would normally think it
was really good AMMO. And so what I'm just going
to say that to encourage people to don't assume that
(10:41):
because it is a major brand that you're getting good ammo.
You've got to go out and test it and shoot
it and honestly box. It's the reason that a lot
of people reload their own AMMO.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Yeah yeah, I mean that's kind of seems to be
the natural lifestyle. Right as we start, we start with
factory ammo, you have to buy a bunch of different ones,
as one load doesn't always work in every gun every time.
It's a little but to here, and then you're kind
of at the you're at the mercy of the manufacturer
to say you will shoot this bullet at this with
(11:14):
this set up, with.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
This powder, with this speed. Well what if you don't
want that combo but you like that.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Bullet or you like that that uh, that's not the
accuracy node for your out.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Well that's what I love.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
About reloading tom is that I get to pick and
tune myself, you know, and make all the make the
whole system uh work, not not just try to randomly
fit the pieces into the puzzles.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You get to build the piece, I guess.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, So I just kind of want to put that
be in people's bodies. Look, go out and shoot it
with the AMO that you're going to hunt with, and
make sure that that combo of that AMMO and your
rifle work. Well, if they don't change something, yeah, you
might get into reloading it might even try something else.
And I also want to just drive them to call well,
because you guys make all sorts of stuff for shooting.
And of course you've got your family companies. I guess
(12:05):
you want to run through just the names of some
of the other companies in your family there.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Yeah, so the holding company, we're American outdoor brands, and
so I'll do the marketing for what we call our
shooting brands.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
So Calviell is the big one.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I also have a wheeler which is the fat wrench,
and all the tools, the gunsmithing tools, your optics mounting
and all that tipton which is your cleaning. I say,
good clean rifle, need that to shoot at. And then
frankfort Arsenal, which is the reloading. On the other side
of the business, we have our hunting side, which is bogs,
(12:43):
so the tripods, the bog death grips and those are
really what they're known for. We have Hui Man, which
is like limb sauce spreaders, more of the food plot
land management stuff. We also have several nights brands. We
own a charade old timer. We have the license for
(13:07):
Smith and Weston Cutlery, so we do quite a bit
of cutlery stuff, Uncle Henry. There's several brands on the
culory side. We have a grill company named Grilla Grills
and another one that we started. We started a brand
called Meat several years ago. That's all game processing.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
It is barbecue time right now.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh it's barbecue time. Oh yeah, great time.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Well we also, Man, I'll be in trouble if I
don't mention we got a fishing brand named Bubba, so
file at knife since they do these smart scales.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
And all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Okay, So I say, if there's an outdoor activity, we're
probably in it, and if we're not, we're probably considered.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
We're about to get into it. People have got to
go look at the clay Copera. It's one of the
I mean, seriously, here's one of the coolest, most fun
things I've seen in a while.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Man, everybody's really excited about it.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I think if you go look at it's worth your time.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Box. I appreciate your time, my friend.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Awesome. Always great talking to you, Tom.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And you take care all right? Coming up in handguns,
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Have some fun and stay informed with the gun Talk podcast.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Just think about that interview with Box talking about the
clay copper. We were out Friday. I guess, yeah, a
couple of days ago on the hillside behind the house here,
I say hillside. We got a mountain bind a house
and we were shooting pistols. But we found this area.
We said, you know, we could throw clays here, and
I'm looking at it going actually, we could use a
(17:26):
clay copper here. So this week I'm going to shoot
it out to the Box and say, hey, I need one
of those things, and I need a good supply targets.
We're going to give it a test run out here,
a T and E if you will, so a test
and evaluation. So we're going to be shooting some of
that up here. That's where we were back there, shooting
to different pistols. I took that one commander sized pistol.
(17:48):
I just wanted to run a lot of rounds through it.
To probably put one hundred rounds through it. There is
a real difference in recoil from a lightweight Commander forty
five to a full sized steel. The full sized steel
is just kind of a it's not a pussy cat
like a nine, because a full sized steel nineteen eleven
(18:08):
and nine shoots so sweet and you definitely have more recoil. Well,
think about it this way. In the forty five, I'm
using regular ball AMMO two hundred and thirty grain bullet
in the nine. For typically for practice, AMO, your bullet
is one hundred and fifteen grains. It is half the weight.
(18:29):
The forty five store a bullet that has twice the weight,
So you're going to get a significant increase in recoil,
just no getting around it. And I know going in, yeah,
I'm gonna go shoot this thing at gun site. We're
going to do five days of shooting with these, and
it would be more comfortable and I would have faster
recovery time if I was shooting nine. I get that,
(18:51):
but I'm not in competition and I'm not working a timer,
and you know, yeah, you're always kind of in competition.
You want to do as well or better than other
people in the class. But I also just like the
idea of shooting the forty five. This goes back to
what I was talking about earlier. Sometimes I carry a
gun not necessarily because it's the best, but just because
(19:12):
it's what I want to carry that day. Sometimes it's
a revolver, Well, why would you do that? Well, sometimes
I've got a seven shot three fifty seven magnum three
inch barrel. I just think that'd be a good gun
to carry today, and I could probably solve most problems
with that. There aren't a whole lot of self defense
issues I can't solve with that. So and look, I understand,
(19:35):
I completely admit that my approach to this doesn't make
a whole lot of sense. Sometimes I'm carrying a micro nine.
Sometimes I'm carrying a full size nine. Sometimes it's a
full size or compact forty five nineteen eleven or a
nine milevater of nineteen eleven, or a bigger revolver, or
(19:57):
you're a small revolver. I don't know. It's the thing.
I just I like these different guns, and they're they're fun.
I gotta go check my AMMO and look, I know,
and I gotta look into this. I don't have it.
But there is forty five ACPMO that is has the
(20:20):
lighterweight bullets you can get two hundred grains. You can
give you a one hundred eighty five grain semi wade
cutters if I switch to those, and I gotta go
back and make sure that they will run my gun,
because if you have less recoil less motion of your slide,
if you will slide velosity, there's the possible ability that
your gun won't run reliably. So i'd have to check
(20:41):
that out. So we'll see if I can find some.
I probably would grab some, just because I'm thinking about
five days of shooting full house for two hundred and
thirty green bullets. I mean, I'm ready to do it.
I'm gonna do it. That's the AMMO I have available.
But there you go. So we're gonna have some fun
doing that. I'm gonna drive our way down to Arizona,
stop it along the way and goofing off some friends going.
(21:04):
So that'll be a fun. It's a shooting safari if
you will. What a fun idea. Let's get together. Let's
go drive, stop along the way, do some fun stuff.
Go to a shooting school somewhere and look, it could
be gun side, it could be our place down in Louisiana.
Range Ready, we've got some really good classes coming up
by the way, oh oh oh, and be sure be
(21:27):
sure to go over to range ready Studios dot com
and sign up for the email newsletter because we're going
to have some more of these special classes that usually
sell out in like two or three days. If you
wait a week to go back and look at the website,
it'll probably be full. These are the crazy ones we
do with gun companies, where they may be maybe introducing
(21:49):
a new product, maybe it says happened in the past.
When you sign up for the class, not only do
you get to shoot the new product, you get to
keep the new product. Yeah, just handle some like maybe optics,
maybe holsters. I don't know who knows. I'm not allowed
to talk about it except that I just did. No
Bo's the boss to me. I'm don Gresha. This is
(22:11):
gut Taller. Be a part of it. Give me a
shout those let's hear those range reports eight sixty six
talk guys, all right, it's time for you to be
involved here. We're looking for range reports. What have you
been shooting? What have you been looking at? What do
you think it about? Buying number here is pretty easy.
(22:34):
Just call me a Tom talk gun that'll get you in.
Matt did that? He's in North Dakota. Hey, Matt, what's
going on?
Speaker 9 (22:41):
Yes, sir had a range report for you.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Please okay, alrighty.
Speaker 9 (22:47):
I was shooting one of my ars at outdoor range
that we have here, and I was shooting at fifty
yards and enjoying the peaceful night. But I need some
advice on handling range etiquette. I had a situation where
I was shooting at fifty yards and we have a
(23:12):
fifty excuse me, we have twenty five fifty yard one
hundred and two hundred. I was shooting at fifty and
a new shooter who was excitedly talking about shooting trapped
his first time. We have that on at the club also.
But then he opened a rifle case and was going
(23:36):
to shoot across me. He was on my right. He
was going to shoot across me at the twenty five
yard target. So I politely called cease fire and made
sure he had his ear protection, and I said, would
you please move over to my left so you can
(23:57):
shoot at twenty five and I can continue at fifty.
And I was polite, and he was a young man
and his girlfriend, But how do you handle something like
that as it pops up.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Again top, Well, what was his reaction?
Speaker 9 (24:13):
He was a little bit shocked, I think, and he said, Okay,
I'm just so excited. I'm just so excited that I
didn't know the rules.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
And that's okay. Honestly, it sounds to me like you
handled really well. It's like, okay, I'm not mad and
I'm going to yell at you, just say, hey, if
I stopped for a second, let's get this sort of out.
If you're gonna be shooting at the target on the left,
you need to be to the left of me. So,
I mean, it's probably not a safety issue, but it
(24:44):
doesn't make any sense for him to be shooting across
your line of fire. And he didn't clearly he didn't know.
And I think you did a really good job with it.
I mean, I don't know there's anything I could suggest
to do any better.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Okay, yep.
Speaker 9 (24:57):
I always want to be polite, whether going to the
range or at the range or leaving the range, because
it's a plight. What is it? An armed society is
a plight society? Was that the quote?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
That is the quote?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Now?
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Having said that, and I know you know this, If
it was a true immediate safety issue, then that's the
time to be a good bit more forcefull of you.
Cease fire, stop, stop stop, you know, and so you know,
but it doesn't sound like it was that kind of
a thing. It was just sorting it all out, yes, sir,
Well no, I think you did a great job, and
(25:34):
you know, you were a good ambassador for shooting. And
you got this young person. And the other thing is
he's got his girlfriend. You don't want to embarrass him
in front of his girlfriend. He's prying new at it. Frankly,
it sounds like I went real.
Speaker 9 (25:45):
Well good, that's what I wanted to report, a good
Braine report and just get advice and I'll handle it
that way next time.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
There you go. Well done. Hey, by the way, what
were you shooting? You said? Your ar is it in
two two three?
Speaker 9 (26:00):
Yeah, yep, yep and five five six. I have a
vortex red dot with an extra radical on it. And
it was his turn to leave the safe and go
out and shoot. So it was a great night.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Hit me wait long enough?
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Uh yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I like it all right. Well, look thanks for the
ranging port. Well done, that is great. I appreciate that. Matt.
You know it's an opportunity, and if it's not a
real immediate safety issue, there's a lot of things ways
you go about. You know, he calls these fires sound
like maybe it was just the two of them. If
it was a bunch of people on the line, one
of the things you could do is just stop shooting,
(26:40):
stand up, and step back from the line, and then
when the line goes cold again, then you could have
the conversation and you start off with, hey, if you
wouldn't mind, why don't we switch positions here, because you're
shooting at a target to my left and you're I'm
shooting at one of your right, and let's just switch here,
and you know, we'll sort this thing out. There's usually
(27:03):
a way to have these conversations as long as you
don't have your ego all wrapped up in it. A
lot of times you start off with a question, you
say you wouldn't mind, or you know, or hey, I
was just thinking that we might be better off just
find a way to ease into it, to give them
(27:23):
a chance to buy in. If you get that buy in,
you can usually get it where you needed to be.
And particularly if somebody's new, they don't know but I
think Matt did a great job of not embarrassing him
in front of his girlfriend, and you know, he had
a good experience on the thing we tend to. There's
a thought for you. If you've been shooting a long time,
(27:46):
and a lot of people listening to this have been
shooting for decades, you forget that you were once new
and didn't know all these safety rules, and you were
nervous and didn't know the protocols and wouldn't have appreciated
if somebody barked at you. And so it's our chance,
as the folks who have the experience to help folks
(28:09):
and say, hey, let me explain to you. Let's see
what we can do about this. Yeah, Joe says started
off with hey, jerk face, it is probably not a
good way to go. Thank you, Jim. I appreciate it.
I knew it could counted you on that one. I
did have a situation one time though public range simply
open to the public, you know, rainge masters or therebody shoots,
(28:31):
and I was shooting and I didn't realize some folks
had come in on the far into the line down there.
I stopped and I walked down to change the target
out and they started shooting while I was down range.
That's not a time to be bashful. So I barked
very loudly at them and used four letter words that
(28:56):
I don't usually use and got their attention, and they
were or they stopped immediately. They were mortified. Now the
good news is where they were shooting. Those targets were
probably thirty yards to the side of me, so it
wasn't like the bullets were coming right next to me.
I sort of didn't like being down range when they're
bullets flying down there. But it was one of those
(29:17):
things I thought, Okay, what's my learning takeaway of this?
I mean, I can get mad at them for not
checking to see for somebody downrange, but also I should
have looked up and down the line just to say, okay,
did anybody else come here? While I was shooting and
looking down range and focused and what not paying attention.
So I had honestly let my situation one wearing the slaps,
(29:42):
And so that was one of those HM, Okay, Tom,
let's don't get mad at them. Figure out what you can.
I can't control everybody's actions, and the next people come
along and may do the same thing. So how am
I going to protect myself? So? What do I do
to improve my performance? If you will, It's the way
(30:03):
I like to approach things. What can I get out
of this? How can I do better? I like learning,
I like improving and whatever it is I do. I'm
never going to be a top competitive shooter. I'm not
really a competitive shooter at all. I don't do that.
And there are gazillions of people who shoot better than
I do. They shoot smaller groups, they shoot faster times,
(30:25):
all the rest of it. And that's fine. I'm just
trying to get better at what I do. That's why
I'm going back and taking another class at Gunsight. I'm
going back to Range Ready in a month month and
a half to do another event, another shooting event there,
and I'll get a little training there, and I try
(30:47):
to do that with most things. I have been flying Airpuy.
I've been flying for forty years, forty two years, and
I'm signed up to take a three day class, one
on one with a experienced instructor on that country, flyine,
flying into the wilderness areas. We're going to be doing that.
That's gonna be a bunch of fun as well. Let's wrap.
(31:09):
Jeff Line what out of Meridian, Idaho, just down the
road from me. Hey, Jeff, your own gun talk. What's up?
Speaker 10 (31:16):
Hi?
Speaker 11 (31:16):
I've heard you talk about nineteen elevens and before, and
I know you have a passion for the nineteen elevens,
and so do I. I have had a cult nineteen
eleven since the early eighties, and I've that's what I
shoot mostly. I'm fairly proficient with it. But I keep
(31:39):
hearing the people, mostly younger shooters, say, oh no, you
need something with a greater capacity, holds, more rounds, more
self defense. And I just wanted to get your thoughts
on that, because I say proficiency and shot placement has
to be consider first and foremost.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, I don't think anybody would argue that shot placement
is critical. I mean on the board, you know, size
of the cartridge versus the number of rounds. I can
argue it both ways, and often do it sounds like
you have kind of figured it out. Look, these persons
got to come figure out where they come down on this.
(32:24):
If you can shoot well, let's just say that if
you are carrying a forty five automatic and you've got
well with most forty five, you can carry eight in
a magazine. Plus once you've got nine rounds, there are
not a lot of these social problems you can't solve
with nine rounds. Honestly, Now, I can come up with
(32:44):
scenarios where you say, well, oh but you might need more, Yes,
you might, you might need a hundred, but you're probably
not gonna have them. But that's a very low percentage.
The percentages drop off really fast after about three or
four rounds. At that point, it's kind like, I don't know,
it's what do you like? Don't you find that it's
(33:05):
as much what kind of gun do you like? What
do you shoot well? And what feels good in your hand?
Speaker 11 (33:10):
Exactly? I guess it goes. It ties into debt, never
ending nine m men versus forty five debate that will
go on forever. Yeah, you're right, well I have both.
I got to admit a half boasts. I have a
bread in ninety two also, But I feel pretty good
(33:31):
about their ninety eleven. But I keep hearing, oh, no,
you need to have a handgun to hold some more rounds.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Oh yeah, No. What I really like is when they say, yeah,
you know, what if you carry nineteen eleven with only
nine or ten rounds you're gonna die. Well, no, that's
just stupid. Come on, kid, And it's like, well, but
if you don't have a dot on it, you're going
to die, really okay. If you don't have a double stock,
you're gonna die. Okay, can we get past this? This
is sounding really stupid at this point. You know, copstant
Well carried six out revolvers for an awful long time
(34:01):
and everybody else did so. Mainly it's a matter of
mastering the tool. I would say, rather than argue about
nine versus forty five or double stack versus single stack,
go out and take some more classes and do more
shooting and more training and lots of dry fire practice,
and get really good at drawing and shooting and center
(34:23):
punching your target at seven yards. Yeah. I know everybody said,
well you're to be able to hit targets at fifteen
and twenty five. Yes, I understand that. But if you
can put all your shots in a playing card at
seven yards, that's a difficult target at seven yards twenty
one feet for most people. When you can do that,
you are quite proficient.
Speaker 11 (34:45):
I think I could do it. Not every time, but
I think I could do it, and I just always
was of the belief that you can't compensate for a
lack of proficiency with either capacity or power.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Or I like it when they say you can't miss
somebody fast enough to win the gunfight.
Speaker 11 (35:07):
Right, And that's the last thing I'd want to do
is get in the gunfight. My intention would be to
either stop or slow down the threat so I could
take evasive action.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
You bet. Yeah. But at the same time, look, if
you got to shoot, you gotta shoot center of mash.
You know, we're not trying to scare somebody. The only
reason we would pull the trigger is that somebody's just
about to kill us. So we've got to take care
of that. Great call. I appreciate that, Jeff, As you
can imagine, the nine verses forty five and single stack
versus double stack will never go away, and it's always
going to be there. But that's how we sold an
(35:39):
awful lot of gun magazines when I was at Guns
and Ammo and all these other gun magazines through the years.
Uh yeah, do we have time to get Mike in. Oh, okay,
we'll do that. Let's grab Mike on line too out
of Medford organ Hey, right, what's cooking. Uh oh, we're
trying to find Mike. He ran away online. Two Okay,
(36:05):
all right, Mike, put it down. He's getting the sandwich.
We'll see, we'll get you back in here.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
The single stack versus double stack is kind of fun.
On the nineteen eleven side. You got this whole group
of people who discovered the nineteen eleven, but they were
bad about the nineteen eleven. It's only a nineteen eleven
if it's a good one, if it's double stack. If
it's a single stack, it's bad. I don't know why
that is. Un Listen, we got Mike back here. Hey, Mike,
you there.
Speaker 10 (36:30):
Yes, I am all right.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
You had the floor. Go ahead, sir.
Speaker 10 (36:35):
All right, my friend. I've been a concealed carry advocate
and carried for five years. And when I decided I
was going to do that, I just shot for an
affordable weapon, and I picked the Ruger Compact Security nine.
You got good reviews, a great reputation for the company,
(36:55):
and that's what I chose to carry. That's what I
trained with and qualified with. And I just carry the
standard magazine ten plus one. I can put the regular
Security nine capacity in it. So that's fifteen, and so
my thoughts from earlier comments are that I want to
(37:17):
train with that gun so that I'm most familiar with
that gun so when every split second count, so I'm
not you know, my brain isn't tricking me that I'm
carrying in nineteen eleven or a Solimer Striker fire that
sort of thing. That was just my thoughts on the matter.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
No, I'm agreeing with you. I think you're exactly right,
and people should do what you're doing and not do
what I do because I do it to completely wrong.
I switch around all the time, so it's like, do
what they say, not what I do right, But no,
I think you're doing it right. The other only a
thing left for you to do is to shoot more
AMMO and practice like crazy.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
That's true.
Speaker 10 (37:51):
Yeah, I agree, it's hard to carve out time to
do that, but it is part.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Of the discipline. It is. But you know, you can
also do dry firing. Make sure a triple check, make
sure you're unloaded, and practice your draw, your trigger press,
all the rest of that. Dry firing gets you an
awful lot of good training, working your gun, working the slide.
You know, pretend you got a malfunction, crank that slide,
(38:18):
get your trigger presses in. You're not going to be
mastering recoil for your follow up shots. You can't do
that without shooting the gun. But in terms of the
movement to the gun in the holster, drawing it out
from concealment, you need to do this from concealment, put
the target, the gun on target, pressing the trigger without
disturbing the site so that the site stay on the
(38:39):
target after it goes click. You need to do like
one thousand and one while you're holding the sites on
the target. Dry firing is very beneficial. It's not everything,
it's not enough, but you know, none of us gets
to the range as often as we would like. But
we're all home every single day and we can all
do dry firing every single day. And guess what, that's
(39:02):
what we should be doing. Gun talk will be right back.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I wish my friends wouldn't do this too. During the break,
my phone starts ringing. I got it on silent, but
I can hear it over there. It's a buddy, he's
texting me a copy of an ad from a place
that has a left handed ultra light arms rifle.
Speaker 7 (39:30):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Would you I'm supposed to be the one that enables
other people. I don't need any enabling. I can self
enable anytime I want to, So I can buy a gun,
you know, and I can stop anytime I want to.
I swear I can. I really can't. So just where
where's that again? Well, yeah, it's a twenty two empire. No,
I'm not going to do that. Run away, run away. Oh,
(39:57):
it is a great time for looking use guns. A
lot of people are one of the things that's happening
just from a demographic standpoint, because you've got a lot
of people who are easing out of shooting right now,
and you know a lot of older guys are starting
to get rid of their collections. They're selling them, they're
(40:17):
moving them, whether they're doing it locally or through you know,
Jury's Guns or gun Broken. By the way, if you're
wanting to get rid of guns juriesguns dot Com is
a great place to go. They'll buy them outright, make
it easy. And a lot of times they have really
interesting guns. A lot of times they're guns from twenty thirty, forty, fifty,
sixty years ago and they're really good. Sometimes they are
(40:39):
high end guns that you can pick up as a
good price. There can be some smoking deals. Sometimes you go, yeah, yeah,
I do they like to have an older Winchester model seventy,
Yeah they got those. Or you're one of the early
models Smith and Western revolvers, Yeah, those will pop up
as well. Do no matter what you're looking for. I
(41:00):
think right now you got look at the numbers. The
baby boomers are moving out. I mean, they're getting older
where they're not going to be shooting. They're dying. Widows
are getting rid of gun collections. There's some good deals
out there. I've had an opportunity to help a widow
(41:21):
or two with gun collections. It's an interesting situation where
I'm helping them sell them and I'm looking at them
and going, man, I'd love to get that one. But
what I don't do is I don't buy guns that way.
I will help them move them and get them to
the right place, but something about it doesn't feel right
(41:44):
of me, Like doing an appraisal long guns and saying
I think that's what they're worth and then saying I
want to buy it. Also, you shouldn't sell a gun
to somebody who doesn't appraisal for you, because even if
they're trustworthy, and I would startain to be trust where
they to make it fair. It just doesn't feel right
to me.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Maybe I'm maybe I'm goofy about that. Maybe that's silly,
but I just don't like the possibility of it appearing
to be improper. Where I established the price and say no,
by the way, i'll give you that for that, then
they're thinking, well, was it really worth that or did
he just price it like that so he could buy
it cheap. So I don't know, just a thought. I
(42:25):
don't think we got time for al in this segment.
Here we're picking up on the back side. Here we
do that. Also when we come back, we're going to
be talking with Harmi. Dylan so is the Assistant US
Attorney General in charge of the Civil Rights Division at
the US Department of Justice, and they have a Second
Amendment section there. Very interesting conversation. I interviewed her at
(42:46):
shot show, and frankly, she was a little closed off,
a little guarded. She has a lot of interviews and
probably most of them are she's waiting for the gotcha question.
This one was different completely. She was much more open,
maybe more trusting. Maybe she knew a little bit more
about me. We talked about women shooting, about the need
(43:07):
for female FIREMS instructors, about the shooting she's doing, and
of course what she's doing at Department of Justice in
terms of helping preserve and protect and expand Secondmendment rights.
That's a fascinating one. That'll be fun. Then we're going
to pick up Cam Edwards, so we're going to find
out what's going on in Virginia. It is a mess,
what's going on out there with new gun laws being
(43:29):
passed and signed into law by their governor. It's an
object lesson for all of us, the need to get
out and vote, because when you're losing elections, you can
lose big in gun rights.
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey, welcome back to gun Talk. Tom Gresham here, give
me a holler. Of course, it's easy to call you,
and you know, just call me a Tom Talk gun
We're looking at what's going on getting ready for well
the summer season, because people do a lot of shooting
in the summer. Well, I'm here to tell you it's
not too early to start thinking about fall as well,
because if you got something to get ready for the
fall hunting season, we got to talk about that and
(00:38):
to talk about a lot of that and one of
the coolest products, frankly that came out a shot show
where people are going that is amazing. We're joined by
Jerry Grove, also known as Box. How you doing, my friend?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I am doing great? Tom.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, all right, so you guys at the Shot Show launched, Well,
you had to play copter out and then you had
the hand thrower and the cool different targets. If you would,
Let's back up, don't assume that everybody knows what we're
talking about, because this is like, for I want to say,
for clay target shooters, but it's not clay targets. It's
(01:13):
a it's a flying target that you should let's call
it this. It's a flying target you shoot with the shotgun.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
How's that's that's a pretty pretty good description.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
It's a what we like to say is a new
way to clay.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
A new way to clay. It's a thing spins up.
It's got its own little circle with wings, and you
pull the trigger on it and shoot it like a gun.
And this thing goes firing out there, and I mean,
how far is the farthest you can get this thing?
Speaker 4 (01:40):
To go with the clay copper targets. You're right, Tom,
they're a spinning target, and the fastest speed there's different
speed settings. At fifteen thousand RPMs, we can get about
one hundred yards on one of those there and there again,
like the way we say a new way to clay,
if you haven't seen one, they're kind of hard to describe,
(02:01):
but imagine almost like the toy that kids have where
they pull the string and the helicopter thing spins up
and the problems.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yes, it is very that.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
And uh but we we really wanted to. I mean,
clay pigeons are over one hundred and fifty years old.
You know, they were trying to find something besides the
birds and glass balls to shoot.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
So and uh, you know that's been around a long time.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
But we're kind of trying to think of what's the
next thing, what's something to what to how to answer
the some of the pain points of the durability the
transport of a clay pigeons.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Those cases of clay targets are heavy and shipping those
around is a beast and then you got to store
them and everything else and.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
You get a lot of breakage.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, yeah, good point.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
So we we were like, well, portability with a clay thrower,
the target, the launcher, all that's a concern. Uh, easy use,
like pulling springs and heavy springs and stuff. And so
there's been several attempts at a different type of target
and spending props for nothing new. And you know, if
you're really really deep into into shotguns shooting, like like
(03:11):
I am, you know we've shot heelis or zz bird
or whatever you want to call it for a long
time but that that's really really expensive and you have
to have dedicated basically a dedicated range, and there's no
portability to it in the and you know, talking through
the whole thing, and it's like, guys, if you can't
make a target system that the consumer can go get
(03:35):
the consumable part of it, the target where they currently
buy their clay pigeons, then then it's gonna be a
really hard sell. And luckily we worked through all that.
We came up with a target that's made out of
a biodegradable material. They're there, they appear to be plastic,
but I want to be very very clear, they are
not plastic. They're made out of plant starch with some
(03:56):
mineral ground up mineral in them to give them some weight.
They're biodegradable, they're all independently certified, they're non toxic. Very
good that everybody's concerned about plastics these days. But truth
of the matter is the plastic that goes down range
when we're shooting is from the shotgun waden, not from
our target.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Okay, well, there's no classic in that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
And people want to take a look at this Caldwell
Shooting dot com that can see all they need and
there's lots of videos now, but you know you started
with one launcher. Now you got multiple different types of launchers.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
So two years at SHOT we showed the original with
the handheld with a battery, right huge, man, so cool.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
See how fast it took off. We knew at Shot show.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
That year from everybody's feedback, we already had I had
like a five year roadmap. Our execs for saw the excitement.
Our sales team got all the excitement from the buyers,
and they said, we're gonna do all of it right now,
and we're gonna watch it next year's Shot, which I
was like, I thought was very very aggressive, but we put.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You think it okay, we think we can do this, boss.
Thanks ye.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Taking all the all the consumer feedback, and the consumer
feedback kind of just reaffirmed what we were already thinking.
We came up with two new launchers and three new targets.
This year, we came up with another handheld that's strict,
pure mechanical.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
We call Launcher, no battery, no batteries.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Got like a your pull cord like you would on
the lawnmower.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Exactly exactly yet just a pull cord just like your lawnmower,
and we can throw targets, you know.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Easily sixty to eighty yards with that.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
The great thing about that that's going to be somewhere
under one hundred dollars. I've been seeing some of those
on our MSRPs ninety nine to ninety nine street retail
on that.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Is somewhere around ninety dollars.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
So a great way if you're if you don't shoot
a lot and you don't want to spend the two
hundred dollars that the electric one is, here's a way
to experience it, test it out, see if you really
like it. It's something that you're gonna, you know, stick with,
and then you can upgrade. The thing that has everybody
really excited. And the thing that that I thought was
going to take us years and years to develop is
(06:03):
a launcher. Will call them the surface to air and
it is a battery launcher, but it sits on the
ground and holds fifty targets in a stack and so
that will feed and you can remote launch it.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
With a remote so you can kind of think of
it as like a traditional clay target thrower. The way
you can stack them up and it's over there and
you're over here.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
So one of the cool things is that uses an app,
a free app, and you can bluetooth to your phone
and then you can control up to ten devices. You
can launch them from up to one hundred yards away,
and you can do a cool feature. One of my
favorites is touch to launch, where you take a picture
of the downrange and wherever you tap on the screen
(06:49):
is where it will aim and fire the targets. So
it does really cool stuff like that. And then also
that I don't think that anybody can really do on
their own property is it has a UV light built
into the head and we make a glow in the
dark target and the lights charge it, so you can
go out on your own property and shoot these glue
(07:10):
in the dark plays. It's becoming pretty popular at at
Sporting at Sporting Clays.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Range, right, so you can shoots.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Yeah, that requires special lights, right and all sorts of
like stadium whites basically, and.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
This is a UV light that charges the phosphorescent if
you will, in the target and then it fires and
you can see this thing glowing going across.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
The sky exactly and when you hit them, they explode
like fireworks.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Box you know, I've seen two reactions, and almost always
you get the same two reactions when people see this.
The first time they see a target go, it's like wow,
that's fast.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I mean it's like I better get on my game here.
And then the second reaction is people start giggling. It's
like this, this is insane, this is so much fun.
And then of course you go down to the gun
Talk studio said, you're in the studio there, you're trying
to demo this thing. And I don't know if you
met too or what happened, but you let one go
(08:13):
inside the studio. This target is bouncing off of studio
lights and going all over the place. It was like
a scene out of a movie. Man.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Yeah, we we may or may not.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
That was a genuine reaction.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
We we tried it on the low setting, and I
was like, I don't know, and we'll just say.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
kJ did it. Yeah it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
It wasn't.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Mere Ryan, that'd be typical. He says, go ahead and
said it to high. Let's see what happens.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Right, It might have went one notch too many on
the old speed control of it. Yeah, oh god.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
The camera guys are fast on their feet though, in
their own credit getting out of.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
The way they dodged is pretty good.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Well, it is an amazing technology, and for anybody that
likes to shoot shotguns, I would say, take a look
at it and oh yeah. The main thing is that
they want to get out is Yeah, he announced it
the shot Show. Everybod kept saying, well, where is it?
When can I get it? Well, the answer is they
are shipping right now, and in a week or so
they'll be at dealers. Right.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I was so happy last week to come in and
see shipments coming through the warehouse and receiving in and
processing and going through QC and going out and everything
is going just right according to plants.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
And we're hoping around May first.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
The dealers, the retailers are still start having them in
their shelves on their websites for order. We got them
here for May, just in time for the nice weather.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah exactly. I would just tell people, look, if you're
still trying to figure out what we're talking about, honestly,
the best way to go is to go look at
the videos. There are a lot of videos of them online.
We've got them over at our gun Talk website, but
you can go to callwell shooting dot com and look
at the demos there. It's an amazing technology and I
am just excited with what you guys have done.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Yeah, it's been It's been one of my funnest, funnest
things I've ever got to do well.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
And the other thing is that before we go, I
got to say that, Look, we're heading into summer, before
you know it, we're we heading into fall, and a
lot of people wait till the last minute to get
their guns ready to tune things up. And you guys
have products for cleaning guns for reloading and the precision
shooting we were talking about earlier is that everybody's trying
to make better AMMO. I want to say something here
(10:20):
that I haven't mentioned on the air, and I recently
I'm not going to name the company, but I was
recently shooting some AMMO from a brand name company and
it was terrible. I mean, we're talking about some really
lousy accuracy out of what you would normally think it
was really good AMMO. And so what I'm just going
to say that to encourage people to don't assume that
(10:41):
because it is a major brand that you're getting good ammo.
You've got to go out and test it and shoot
it and honestly box. It's the reason that a lot
of people reload their own AMMO.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Yeah yeah, I mean that's kind of seems to be
the natural lifestyle. Right as we start, we start with
factory ammo, you have to buy a bunch of different ones,
as one load doesn't always work in every gun every time.
It's a little but to here, and then you're kind
of at the you're at the mercy of the manufacturer
to say you will shoot this bullet at this with
(11:14):
this set up, with.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
This powder, with this speed. Well what if you don't
want that combo but you like that.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Bullet or you like that that uh, that's not the
accuracy node for your out.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Well that's what I love.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
About reloading tom is that I get to pick and
tune myself, you know, and make all the make the
whole system uh work, not not just try to randomly
fit the pieces into the puzzles.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You get to build the piece, I guess.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, So I just kind of want to put that
be in people's bodies. Look, go out and shoot it
with the AMO that you're going to hunt with, and
make sure that that combo of that AMMO and your
rifle work. Well, if they don't change something, yeah, you
might get into reloading it might even try something else.
And I also want to just drive them to call well,
because you guys make all sorts of stuff for shooting.
And of course you've got your family companies. I guess
(12:05):
you want to run through just the names of some
of the other companies in your family there.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Yeah, so the holding company, we're American outdoor brands, and
so I'll do the marketing for what we call our
shooting brands.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
So Calviell is the big one.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I also have a wheeler which is the fat wrench,
and all the tools, the gunsmithing tools, your optics mounting
and all that tipton which is your cleaning. I say,
good clean rifle, need that to shoot at. And then
frankfort Arsenal, which is the reloading. On the other side
of the business, we have our hunting side, which is bogs,
(12:43):
so the tripods, the bog death grips and those are
really what they're known for. We have Hui Man, which
is like limb sauce spreaders, more of the food plot
land management stuff. We also have several nights brands. We
own a charade old timer. We have the license for
(13:07):
Smith and Weston Cutlery, so we do quite a bit
of cutlery stuff, Uncle Henry. There's several brands on the
culory side. We have a grill company named Grilla Grills
and another one that we started. We started a brand
called Meat several years ago. That's all game processing.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
It is barbecue time right now.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh it's barbecue time. Oh yeah, great time.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Well we also, Man, I'll be in trouble if I
don't mention we got a fishing brand named Bubba, so
file at knife since they do these smart scales.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
And all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Okay, So I say, if there's an outdoor activity, we're
probably in it, and if we're not, we're probably considered.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
We're about to get into it. People have got to
go look at the clay Copera. It's one of the
I mean, seriously, here's one of the coolest, most fun
things I've seen in a while.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Man, everybody's really excited about it.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I think if you go look at it's worth your time.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Box. I appreciate your time, my friend.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Awesome. Always great talking to you, Tom.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And you take care all right? Coming up in handguns,
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Speaker 2 (16:31):
What's it like to be blown up?
Speaker 7 (16:32):
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a smack hunting.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Yeah, we talk about that too on your crosshairs.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I like a thin crosshair. A.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
You're really dating yourself by calling things crosshairs. You're redical.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Whatever.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
Have some fun and stay informed with the gun Talk podcast.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Just think about that interview with Box talking about the
clay copper. We were out Friday. I guess, yeah, a
couple of days ago on the hillside behind the house here,
I say hillside. We got a mountain bind a house
and we were shooting pistols. But we found this area.
We said, you know, we could throw clays here, and
I'm looking at it going actually, we could use a
(17:26):
clay copper here. So this week I'm going to shoot
it out to the Box and say, hey, I need one
of those things, and I need a good supply targets.
We're going to give it a test run out here,
a T and E if you will, so a test
and evaluation. So we're going to be shooting some of
that up here. That's where we were back there, shooting
to different pistols. I took that one commander sized pistol.
(17:48):
I just wanted to run a lot of rounds through it.
To probably put one hundred rounds through it. There is
a real difference in recoil from a lightweight Commander forty
five to a full sized steel. The full sized steel
is just kind of a it's not a pussy cat
like a nine, because a full sized steel nineteen eleven
(18:08):
and nine shoots so sweet and you definitely have more recoil. Well,
think about it this way. In the forty five, I'm
using regular ball AMMO two hundred and thirty grain bullet
in the nine. For typically for practice, AMO, your bullet
is one hundred and fifteen grains. It is half the weight.
(18:29):
The forty five store a bullet that has twice the weight,
So you're going to get a significant increase in recoil,
just no getting around it. And I know going in, yeah,
I'm gonna go shoot this thing at gun site. We're
going to do five days of shooting with these, and
it would be more comfortable and I would have faster
recovery time if I was shooting nine. I get that,
(18:51):
but I'm not in competition and I'm not working a timer,
and you know, yeah, you're always kind of in competition.
You want to do as well or better than other
people in the class. But I also just like the
idea of shooting the forty five. This goes back to
what I was talking about earlier. Sometimes I carry a
gun not necessarily because it's the best, but just because
(19:12):
it's what I want to carry that day. Sometimes it's
a revolver, Well, why would you do that? Well, sometimes
I've got a seven shot three fifty seven magnum three
inch barrel. I just think that'd be a good gun
to carry today, and I could probably solve most problems
with that. There aren't a whole lot of self defense
issues I can't solve with that. So and look, I understand,
(19:35):
I completely admit that my approach to this doesn't make
a whole lot of sense. Sometimes I'm carrying a micro nine.
Sometimes I'm carrying a full size nine. Sometimes it's a
full size or compact forty five nineteen eleven or a
nine milevater of nineteen eleven, or a bigger revolver, or
(19:57):
you're a small revolver. I don't know. It's the thing.
I just I like these different guns, and they're they're fun.
I gotta go check my AMMO and look, I know,
and I gotta look into this. I don't have it.
But there is forty five ACPMO that is has the
(20:20):
lighterweight bullets you can get two hundred grains. You can
give you a one hundred eighty five grain semi wade
cutters if I switch to those, and I gotta go
back and make sure that they will run my gun,
because if you have less recoil less motion of your slide,
if you will slide velosity, there's the possible ability that
your gun won't run reliably. So i'd have to check
(20:41):
that out. So we'll see if I can find some.
I probably would grab some, just because I'm thinking about
five days of shooting full house for two hundred and
thirty green bullets. I mean, I'm ready to do it.
I'm gonna do it. That's the AMMO I have available.
But there you go. So we're gonna have some fun
doing that. I'm gonna drive our way down to Arizona,
stop it along the way and goofing off some friends going.
(21:04):
So that'll be a fun. It's a shooting safari if
you will. What a fun idea. Let's get together. Let's
go drive, stop along the way, do some fun stuff.
Go to a shooting school somewhere and look, it could
be gun side, it could be our place down in Louisiana.
Range Ready, we've got some really good classes coming up
by the way, oh oh oh, and be sure be
(21:27):
sure to go over to range ready Studios dot com
and sign up for the email newsletter because we're going
to have some more of these special classes that usually
sell out in like two or three days. If you
wait a week to go back and look at the website,
it'll probably be full. These are the crazy ones we
do with gun companies, where they may be maybe introducing
(21:49):
a new product, maybe it says happened in the past.
When you sign up for the class, not only do
you get to shoot the new product, you get to
keep the new product. Yeah, just handle some like maybe optics,
maybe holsters. I don't know who knows. I'm not allowed
to talk about it except that I just did. No
Bo's the boss to me. I'm don Gresha. This is
(22:11):
gut Taller. Be a part of it. Give me a
shout those let's hear those range reports eight sixty six
talk guys, all right, it's time for you to be
involved here. We're looking for range reports. What have you
been shooting? What have you been looking at? What do
you think it about? Buying number here is pretty easy.
(22:34):
Just call me a Tom talk gun that'll get you in.
Matt did that? He's in North Dakota. Hey, Matt, what's
going on?
Speaker 9 (22:41):
Yes, sir had a range report for you.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Please okay, alrighty.
Speaker 9 (22:47):
I was shooting one of my ars at outdoor range
that we have here, and I was shooting at fifty
yards and enjoying the peaceful night. But I need some
advice on handling range etiquette. I had a situation where
I was shooting at fifty yards and we have a
(23:12):
fifty excuse me, we have twenty five fifty yard one
hundred and two hundred. I was shooting at fifty and
a new shooter who was excitedly talking about shooting trapped
his first time. We have that on at the club also.
But then he opened a rifle case and was going
(23:36):
to shoot across me. He was on my right. He
was going to shoot across me at the twenty five
yard target. So I politely called cease fire and made
sure he had his ear protection, and I said, would
you please move over to my left so you can
(23:57):
shoot at twenty five and I can continue at fifty.
And I was polite, and he was a young man
and his girlfriend, But how do you handle something like
that as it pops up.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Again top, Well, what was his reaction?
Speaker 9 (24:13):
He was a little bit shocked, I think, and he said, Okay,
I'm just so excited. I'm just so excited that I
didn't know the rules.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
And that's okay. Honestly, it sounds to me like you
handled really well. It's like, okay, I'm not mad and
I'm going to yell at you, just say, hey, if
I stopped for a second, let's get this sort of out.
If you're gonna be shooting at the target on the left,
you need to be to the left of me. So,
I mean, it's probably not a safety issue, but it
(24:44):
doesn't make any sense for him to be shooting across
your line of fire. And he didn't clearly he didn't know.
And I think you did a really good job with it.
I mean, I don't know there's anything I could suggest
to do any better.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Okay, yep.
Speaker 9 (24:57):
I always want to be polite, whether going to the
range or at the range or leaving the range, because
it's a plight. What is it? An armed society is
a plight society? Was that the quote?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
That is the quote?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Now?
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Having said that, and I know you know this, If
it was a true immediate safety issue, then that's the
time to be a good bit more forcefull of you.
Cease fire, stop, stop stop, you know, and so you know,
but it doesn't sound like it was that kind of
a thing. It was just sorting it all out, yes, sir,
Well no, I think you did a great job, and
(25:34):
you know, you were a good ambassador for shooting. And
you got this young person. And the other thing is
he's got his girlfriend. You don't want to embarrass him
in front of his girlfriend. He's prying new at it. Frankly,
it sounds like I went real.
Speaker 9 (25:45):
Well good, that's what I wanted to report, a good
Braine report and just get advice and I'll handle it
that way next time.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
There you go. Well done. Hey, by the way, what
were you shooting? You said? Your ar is it in
two two three?
Speaker 9 (26:00):
Yeah, yep, yep and five five six. I have a
vortex red dot with an extra radical on it. And
it was his turn to leave the safe and go
out and shoot. So it was a great night.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Hit me wait long enough?
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Uh yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I like it all right. Well, look thanks for the
ranging port. Well done, that is great. I appreciate that. Matt.
You know it's an opportunity, and if it's not a
real immediate safety issue, there's a lot of things ways
you go about. You know, he calls these fires sound
like maybe it was just the two of them. If
it was a bunch of people on the line, one
of the things you could do is just stop shooting,
(26:40):
stand up, and step back from the line, and then
when the line goes cold again, then you could have
the conversation and you start off with, hey, if you
wouldn't mind, why don't we switch positions here, because you're
shooting at a target to my left and you're I'm
shooting at one of your right, and let's just switch here,
and you know, we'll sort this thing out. There's usually
(27:03):
a way to have these conversations as long as you
don't have your ego all wrapped up in it. A
lot of times you start off with a question, you
say you wouldn't mind, or you know, or hey, I
was just thinking that we might be better off just
find a way to ease into it, to give them
(27:23):
a chance to buy in. If you get that buy in,
you can usually get it where you needed to be.
And particularly if somebody's new, they don't know but I
think Matt did a great job of not embarrassing him
in front of his girlfriend, and you know, he had
a good experience on the thing we tend to. There's
a thought for you. If you've been shooting a long time,
(27:46):
and a lot of people listening to this have been
shooting for decades, you forget that you were once new
and didn't know all these safety rules, and you were
nervous and didn't know the protocols and wouldn't have appreciated
if somebody barked at you. And so it's our chance,
as the folks who have the experience to help folks
(28:09):
and say, hey, let me explain to you. Let's see
what we can do about this. Yeah, Joe says started
off with hey, jerk face, it is probably not a
good way to go. Thank you, Jim. I appreciate it.
I knew it could counted you on that one. I
did have a situation one time though public range simply
open to the public, you know, rainge masters or therebody shoots,
(28:31):
and I was shooting and I didn't realize some folks
had come in on the far into the line down there.
I stopped and I walked down to change the target
out and they started shooting while I was down range.
That's not a time to be bashful. So I barked
very loudly at them and used four letter words that
(28:56):
I don't usually use and got their attention, and they
were or they stopped immediately. They were mortified. Now the
good news is where they were shooting. Those targets were
probably thirty yards to the side of me, so it
wasn't like the bullets were coming right next to me.
I sort of didn't like being down range when they're
bullets flying down there. But it was one of those
(29:17):
things I thought, Okay, what's my learning takeaway of this?
I mean, I can get mad at them for not
checking to see for somebody downrange, but also I should
have looked up and down the line just to say, okay,
did anybody else come here? While I was shooting and
looking down range and focused and what not paying attention.
So I had honestly let my situation one wearing the slaps,
(29:42):
And so that was one of those HM, Okay, Tom,
let's don't get mad at them. Figure out what you can.
I can't control everybody's actions, and the next people come
along and may do the same thing. So how am
I going to protect myself? So? What do I do
to improve my performance? If you will, It's the way
(30:03):
I like to approach things. What can I get out
of this? How can I do better? I like learning,
I like improving and whatever it is I do. I'm
never going to be a top competitive shooter. I'm not
really a competitive shooter at all. I don't do that.
And there are gazillions of people who shoot better than
I do. They shoot smaller groups, they shoot faster times,
(30:25):
all the rest of it. And that's fine. I'm just
trying to get better at what I do. That's why
I'm going back and taking another class at Gunsight. I'm
going back to Range Ready in a month month and
a half to do another event, another shooting event there,
and I'll get a little training there, and I try
(30:47):
to do that with most things. I have been flying Airpuy.
I've been flying for forty years, forty two years, and
I'm signed up to take a three day class, one
on one with a experienced instructor on that country, flyine,
flying into the wilderness areas. We're going to be doing that.
That's gonna be a bunch of fun as well. Let's wrap.
(31:09):
Jeff Line what out of Meridian, Idaho, just down the
road from me. Hey, Jeff, your own gun talk. What's up?
Speaker 10 (31:16):
Hi?
Speaker 11 (31:16):
I've heard you talk about nineteen elevens and before, and
I know you have a passion for the nineteen elevens,
and so do I. I have had a cult nineteen
eleven since the early eighties, and I've that's what I
shoot mostly. I'm fairly proficient with it. But I keep
(31:39):
hearing the people, mostly younger shooters, say, oh no, you
need something with a greater capacity, holds, more rounds, more
self defense. And I just wanted to get your thoughts
on that, because I say proficiency and shot placement has
to be consider first and foremost.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, I don't think anybody would argue that shot placement
is critical. I mean on the board, you know, size
of the cartridge versus the number of rounds. I can
argue it both ways, and often do it sounds like
you have kind of figured it out. Look, these persons
got to come figure out where they come down on this.
(32:24):
If you can shoot well, let's just say that if
you are carrying a forty five automatic and you've got
well with most forty five, you can carry eight in
a magazine. Plus once you've got nine rounds, there are
not a lot of these social problems you can't solve
with nine rounds. Honestly, Now, I can come up with
(32:44):
scenarios where you say, well, oh but you might need more, Yes,
you might, you might need a hundred, but you're probably
not gonna have them. But that's a very low percentage.
The percentages drop off really fast after about three or
four rounds. At that point, it's kind like, I don't know,
it's what do you like? Don't you find that it's
(33:05):
as much what kind of gun do you like? What
do you shoot well? And what feels good in your hand?
Speaker 11 (33:10):
Exactly? I guess it goes. It ties into debt, never
ending nine m men versus forty five debate that will
go on forever. Yeah, you're right, well I have both.
I got to admit a half boasts. I have a
bread in ninety two also, But I feel pretty good
(33:31):
about their ninety eleven. But I keep hearing, oh, no,
you need to have a handgun to hold some more rounds.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Oh yeah, No. What I really like is when they say, yeah,
you know, what if you carry nineteen eleven with only
nine or ten rounds you're gonna die. Well, no, that's
just stupid. Come on, kid, And it's like, well, but
if you don't have a dot on it, you're going
to die, really okay. If you don't have a double stock,
you're gonna die. Okay, can we get past this? This
is sounding really stupid at this point. You know, copstant
Well carried six out revolvers for an awful long time
(34:01):
and everybody else did so. Mainly it's a matter of
mastering the tool. I would say, rather than argue about
nine versus forty five or double stack versus single stack,
go out and take some more classes and do more
shooting and more training and lots of dry fire practice,
and get really good at drawing and shooting and center
(34:23):
punching your target at seven yards. Yeah. I know everybody said,
well you're to be able to hit targets at fifteen
and twenty five. Yes, I understand that. But if you
can put all your shots in a playing card at
seven yards, that's a difficult target at seven yards twenty
one feet for most people. When you can do that,
you are quite proficient.
Speaker 11 (34:45):
I think I could do it. Not every time, but
I think I could do it, and I just always
was of the belief that you can't compensate for a
lack of proficiency with either capacity or power.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Or I like it when they say you can't miss
somebody fast enough to win the gunfight.
Speaker 11 (35:07):
Right, And that's the last thing I'd want to do
is get in the gunfight. My intention would be to
either stop or slow down the threat so I could
take evasive action.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
You bet. Yeah. But at the same time, look, if
you got to shoot, you gotta shoot center of mash.
You know, we're not trying to scare somebody. The only
reason we would pull the trigger is that somebody's just
about to kill us. So we've got to take care
of that. Great call. I appreciate that, Jeff, As you
can imagine, the nine verses forty five and single stack
versus double stack will never go away, and it's always
going to be there. But that's how we sold an
(35:39):
awful lot of gun magazines when I was at Guns
and Ammo and all these other gun magazines through the years.
Uh yeah, do we have time to get Mike in. Oh, okay,
we'll do that. Let's grab Mike on line too out
of Medford organ Hey, right, what's cooking. Uh oh, we're
trying to find Mike. He ran away online. Two Okay,
(36:05):
all right, Mike, put it down. He's getting the sandwich.
We'll see, we'll get you back in here.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
The single stack versus double stack is kind of fun.
On the nineteen eleven side. You got this whole group
of people who discovered the nineteen eleven, but they were
bad about the nineteen eleven. It's only a nineteen eleven
if it's a good one, if it's double stack. If
it's a single stack, it's bad. I don't know why
that is. Un Listen, we got Mike back here. Hey, Mike,
you there.
Speaker 10 (36:30):
Yes, I am all right.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
You had the floor. Go ahead, sir.
Speaker 10 (36:35):
All right, my friend. I've been a concealed carry advocate
and carried for five years. And when I decided I
was going to do that, I just shot for an
affordable weapon, and I picked the Ruger Compact Security nine.
You got good reviews, a great reputation for the company,
(36:55):
and that's what I chose to carry. That's what I
trained with and qualified with. And I just carry the
standard magazine ten plus one. I can put the regular
Security nine capacity in it. So that's fifteen, and so
my thoughts from earlier comments are that I want to
(37:17):
train with that gun so that I'm most familiar with
that gun so when every split second count, so I'm
not you know, my brain isn't tricking me that I'm
carrying in nineteen eleven or a Solimer Striker fire that
sort of thing. That was just my thoughts on the matter.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
No, I'm agreeing with you. I think you're exactly right,
and people should do what you're doing and not do
what I do because I do it to completely wrong.
I switch around all the time, so it's like, do
what they say, not what I do right, But no,
I think you're doing it right. The other only a
thing left for you to do is to shoot more
AMMO and practice like crazy.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
That's true.
Speaker 10 (37:51):
Yeah, I agree, it's hard to carve out time to
do that, but it is part.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Of the discipline. It is. But you know, you can
also do dry firing. Make sure a triple check, make
sure you're unloaded, and practice your draw, your trigger press,
all the rest of that. Dry firing gets you an
awful lot of good training, working your gun, working the slide.
You know, pretend you got a malfunction, crank that slide,
(38:18):
get your trigger presses in. You're not going to be
mastering recoil for your follow up shots. You can't do
that without shooting the gun. But in terms of the
movement to the gun in the holster, drawing it out
from concealment, you need to do this from concealment, put
the target, the gun on target, pressing the trigger without
disturbing the site so that the site stay on the
(38:39):
target after it goes click. You need to do like
one thousand and one while you're holding the sites on
the target. Dry firing is very beneficial. It's not everything,
it's not enough, but you know, none of us gets
to the range as often as we would like. But
we're all home every single day and we can all
do dry firing every single day. And guess what, that's
(39:02):
what we should be doing. Gun talk will be right back.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I wish my friends wouldn't do this too. During the break,
my phone starts ringing. I got it on silent, but
I can hear it over there. It's a buddy, he's
texting me a copy of an ad from a place
that has a left handed ultra light arms rifle.
Speaker 7 (39:30):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Would you I'm supposed to be the one that enables
other people. I don't need any enabling. I can self
enable anytime I want to, So I can buy a gun,
you know, and I can stop anytime I want to.
I swear I can. I really can't. So just where
where's that again? Well, yeah, it's a twenty two empire. No,
I'm not going to do that. Run away, run away. Oh,
(39:57):
it is a great time for looking use guns. A
lot of people are one of the things that's happening
just from a demographic standpoint, because you've got a lot
of people who are easing out of shooting right now,
and you know a lot of older guys are starting
to get rid of their collections. They're selling them, they're
(40:17):
moving them, whether they're doing it locally or through you know,
Jury's Guns or gun Broken. By the way, if you're
wanting to get rid of guns juriesguns dot Com is
a great place to go. They'll buy them outright, make
it easy. And a lot of times they have really
interesting guns. A lot of times they're guns from twenty thirty, forty, fifty,
sixty years ago and they're really good. Sometimes they are
(40:39):
high end guns that you can pick up as a
good price. There can be some smoking deals. Sometimes you go, yeah, yeah,
I do they like to have an older Winchester model seventy,
Yeah they got those. Or you're one of the early
models Smith and Western revolvers, Yeah, those will pop up
as well. Do no matter what you're looking for. I
(41:00):
think right now you got look at the numbers. The
baby boomers are moving out. I mean, they're getting older
where they're not going to be shooting. They're dying. Widows
are getting rid of gun collections. There's some good deals
out there. I've had an opportunity to help a widow
(41:21):
or two with gun collections. It's an interesting situation where
I'm helping them sell them and I'm looking at them
and going, man, I'd love to get that one. But
what I don't do is I don't buy guns that way.
I will help them move them and get them to
the right place, but something about it doesn't feel right
(41:44):
of me, Like doing an appraisal long guns and saying
I think that's what they're worth and then saying I
want to buy it. Also, you shouldn't sell a gun
to somebody who doesn't appraisal for you, because even if
they're trustworthy, and I would startain to be trust where
they to make it fair. It just doesn't feel right
to me.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Maybe I'm maybe I'm goofy about that. Maybe that's silly,
but I just don't like the possibility of it appearing
to be improper. Where I established the price and say no,
by the way, i'll give you that for that, then
they're thinking, well, was it really worth that or did
he just price it like that so he could buy
it cheap. So I don't know, just a thought. I
(42:25):
don't think we got time for al in this segment.
Here we're picking up on the back side. Here we
do that. Also when we come back, we're going to
be talking with Harmi. Dylan so is the Assistant US
Attorney General in charge of the Civil Rights Division at
the US Department of Justice, and they have a Second
Amendment section there. Very interesting conversation. I interviewed her at
(42:46):
shot show, and frankly, she was a little closed off,
a little guarded. She has a lot of interviews and
probably most of them are she's waiting for the gotcha question.
This one was different completely. She was much more open,
maybe more trusting. Maybe she knew a little bit more
about me. We talked about women shooting, about the need
(43:07):
for female FIREMS instructors, about the shooting she's doing, and
of course what she's doing at Department of Justice in
terms of helping preserve and protect and expand Secondmendment rights.
That's a fascinating one. That'll be fun. Then we're going
to pick up Cam Edwards, so we're going to find
out what's going on in Virginia. It is a mess,
what's going on out there with new gun laws being
(43:29):
passed and signed into law by their governor. It's an
object lesson for all of us, the need to get
out and vote, because when you're losing elections, you can
lose big in gun rights.
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