April 17, 2026 • 52 mins
The legendary Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactics joins Ryan Gresham for this episode of Gun Talk Nation. In this wide-ranging discussion, Kyle and Ryan discuss the NRA-ARC matches, where competition shooting and tactical shooting overlap, how to select the right gear - and what gear really matters, tips to combat nervousness, and so much more.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Archon Firearms, Silencer Central, FN Firearms, EOTech, Taurus USA, Vortex Optics, CZ Firearms, and Silent Steel USA.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2026 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 04.17.26
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Archon Firearms, Silencer Central, FN Firearms, EOTech, Taurus USA, Vortex Optics, CZ Firearms, and Silent Steel USA.
About Gun Talk Nation
Gun Talk Media's Gun Talk Nation with Ryan Gresham is a weekly multi-platform podcast that offers a fresh look at all things firearms-related. Featuring notable guests and a lot of laughs. Gun Talk Nation is available as an audio podcast or in video format.
For more content from Gun Talk Media, visit guntalk.com or subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, Facebook, Instagram, and X. Catch First Person Defender on the new Official FPD YouTube channel. Watch Gun Talk Nation on its new YouTube channel. Catch Gun Talk Hunt on the new dedicated YouTube Channel. Listen to all Gun Talk Podcasts with Spreaker, iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find podcasts.
Copyright ©2026 Freefire Media, LLC
Gun Talk Nation 04.17.26
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The problem with the AR is guys buy them and
they get a really nice AR or just an entry
level AR, and they put it in their gun say,
or they put it under the bed or in the
closet and then that's it. And as we said earlier,
you know, competition is a great way to one to
hone your skills, but also just to get confidence in
your gun handling. And for the AR, there's just not
(00:24):
a lot of competitions that are entry level like ARC.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is guntog Nation. Guntog
Nation is brought to you by Arcan Firearms, Silence are Central,
(00:52):
fn Eotech, Taurus, Vortex cz Usa and Silent Steel.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Hey, welcome into gun dog Nation. Today.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
On gun dog Nation, our guest is a guy you
probably have heard of and probably seen.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Kyle Lamb is here with us. Kyle, welcome in man.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Hey, thanks for having me. Man, I'm excited. It's always
good to hang out with you jokers.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, I love it, dude, This was I didn't And
for those I always want to give a little bit
of background because I always say that the gun world
is we have our little world of like we know
everybody and all that but for a lot of people,
you know, they have, you know, real.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Lives and jobs, and they don't. They don't.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
They're not gun nerds like some of us. So just
a little bit a background on Kyle Serve and tell
me what what we got wrong and what you hate
on this description on the bio. Kyle Serve fifteen years
in Delta Force US Armies Elite special operations, a bunch
of missions including Battle of Mogadishu also known as Blackhawk Down.
(01:56):
After retiring, founded Viking Tactics focused on tactical training and gear.
Also an author, has written some books and consults with
a lot of different companies in the world of firearms, optics, Sammo,
all of those things. And you're also a guy who
still trains, still competes, and still is yank and triggers.
(02:18):
So thanks for being with.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Us, man.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I try not to yank the trigger, but that does
happen every now and again.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Oh man, it's awesome. You got everything right there. It's
awesome to be with you, and it is. It's true.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I'm a lifelong learner. I'm a lifelong competitor.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Really, anything I do I try to be competitive at
And I realized many years ago that I often go
away from competition, but I always come back to it,
and I always come back to guns and hunting and
fishing and really any kind of any kind of shooting
that I can do. And I'm I'm shooting a lot
(02:58):
of Annaeil hunter stuff right now. I'm shooting some MINERL
twenty two stuff, shoots a little bit of prs. I
still compete with a pistol. And then of course, you
know this new competition that's out there. Arc is UH
is on a lot of our minds because it's a
good way for us to work with some of the
new shooters that are coming on board.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
You're kind of a guy who likes to you like
all of it.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I mean, there's certainly lots of worlds where somebody could
say I'm a tactical guy, meaning you know, I shoot
semi auto pistols in ars or whatever. And then there's
the and then there's the long range guys, and then
there's the hunting guys. But you seem to kind of
enjoy all of the stuff with guns, anything to do
with guns, Is that right?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
My wife she told she tells people she goes, I
don't want people to find out that he would do
this all for free, because I mean literally, when I
have a day off, I go shooting, you know, and
I take my grandson shooting my granddaughter if I can
convince her, I take my kids shooting. My wife shoots. Now,
they don't shoot as heavily or well, actually, my grandson
(04:03):
he'll shoot. He won't leave the range until either we're
out of am L I say, we gotta go. He was
here a week ago for spring break. We filmed the
TV show while he was here, and he was on
the show and he shot against the host out to
five hundred yards. He's twelve years old, and he tied
with the host. We shot an IDPA match and he
shot his twenty two of SIG three twenty two, and
(04:27):
then that weekend we went and shot an NRL twenty
two match. So the point is not like what I
want to do with my grandson, and I look at
this with me as well.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
I get bored very easily.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I'm always looking for something new to figure out and
to learn. And if he gets bored with shooting his
Ruger ten twenty two, then we're going to shoot his
SIG twenty two pistol and then we're going to shoot
an ar to get him ready for hunting. He's twelve
and he's already killed a couple deer. And then we
started shooting some long rang and the long range stuff
(05:02):
wasn't so much that I wanted him to do competition.
But he has a lot of questions about sniper stuff
and about tanks and artillery and all this stuff. Well,
I can't answer the questions on tanks and artillery, but
dog gone, I can answer the questions on sniper stuff.
So explaining to him mills and it's really fun because
(05:24):
if you get a fresh, a fresh, clean slate to
work with, like a twelve year old boy that wants
to shoot, wants to hang out with his grandpa. Sometimes
I'm not the easiest guy to hang out with until
we get to the range. When we get to the range,
I'm in my element and I can really mentor him
and teach him. I had him shooting with a twenty
(05:46):
two on my range out to two hundred and twenty yards,
which with a twenty two is a pretty big deal.
First we were dialing and he's shooting Mills. He's not
shooting minutes of angle. He's shooting mills. He's using a
loophold scope with mills come ups in it. And then
once he figured that out, then we started doing mill
holdovers and he was able to quickly do that as well.
(06:08):
So yeah, it's just any kind of shooting I can do.
It's just awesome. And if you can take your kids shooting,
take your friends shooting. You know, I always tell people
that if you go out and shoot an AR, if
you don't shoot like shooting an AR, you're mentally jacked up,
because shooting an AR to me is like the.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
That's probably to me.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Now, I'm not saying it's got to be a five
five six AR, but a twenty two AR, five five
six r whatever it happens to be. First of all,
I can make that rifle fit anybody on the planet.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
If you're six foot five, it will fit you.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
If you're four foot eleven, it will fit you. It
doesn't have vicious recoil, so you're gonna want to keep shooting.
It's very inexpensive to shoot. I mean, there's just so
many good things about the AR, And I told you
this before we started the podcast. I think it's the
greatest combat carbing ever ever designed. You know, so it's
(07:06):
just a it's just a great weapon. Of course, that's
what I used in the military, so I'm very fond
of it because of that.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
But it's uh, yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I don't think anyone's gonna argue with you on that one, Kyle. Yeah,
So I have a question because I got I have
a lot of questions. Okay, tactical versus competition. Sometimes the
tactical and competition guys like want to argue with each
other of like competitions not training for for you know,
(07:39):
tactical applications or vice versa or whatever. But I tend
to think shooting shooting, you know, like, I mean, what
are your what's your take when people want to argue
about that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
If you think competition shooting has no application to tactical shooting,
you're probably stupid. I mean, no, not probably stupid, you're
you're you're stupid. I'm telling you, if I can take
I can take the best shooter on the planet and
I can teach him tactics. I can take the best
(08:12):
tactical guy, and if he can't shoot, his tactics aren't
worth a hoot. Yeah, And I'll give you an example,
I've got a good friend, Lynn Ashley, he's retired colonel
SF colonel, and he told me one day we were
we were teaching some guys some low light close quarter
battle type techniques. We weren't teaching them to do military CQB,
(08:34):
but we were teaching them in their house if they
had to and it was dark, how they would use
a flashlight, how they would move safely from room to
room and search those rooms, and if they had to
eliminate that threat. Well, every single person that we had
at that event was a shooter. So I never had
to say put your safety on. I never had to
(08:55):
say take your finger off the trigger. I never had
to say don't point your weapon at me or or
anybody else anything you don't want to destroy. Never had
to say any of that. And that wasn't because they
were good tactical guys. It was because they were good shooters.
So my argument to that is, if if you're not
shooting competition as a law enforcement officer, as a military guy,
(09:17):
you really should look into that.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
The uh.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I don't know, maybe you've heard this story before, but
the most nervous I've ever been with a gun in
my hand was one year, I was shooting the three
Gun Nationals and they did a top They did like
a top eight shoot off, Top eight open, Top eight limited,
and I did not finish in the top eight.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
I was number nine.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So I showed up for this. I was just gonna
show up and watch these jokers shoot. Yeah, And then
they call out the eighth place guy and he didn't
show up, and they go, by chance, is Kyle Lamb here?
And I'm like, I'm here, what And they go, We're
gonna You're gonna be part of the shootoff. So this
shoot off was rifle, shotgun and pistol, and you had
(10:05):
to step up to a table load your weapons, and
then you had to do this shoot off and it
was a timed event. I stepped up to that table
and I could barely load my weapons. I was so nervous.
I was shaken, and I'm like, what is wrong with me?
So then I shoot? I shoot it. I was the
very first shooter. So everybody's watching what I'm doing, to
(10:26):
include all the really good shooters. They're watching me too.
And I had one target I didn't engage because I
didn't honestly, I didn't even know that target was there.
Was a piece of steel. I was supposed to shoot
with my car being and I didn't. I didn't shoot it.
I got done with that, and I was I was
embarrassed because I had done poorly. I was also embarrassed
for myself because I was so nervous, Like it's almost
(10:46):
like I lost my hand eye coordination when I stepped
up to do this because I was so jacked up
with adrenaline. The next shooter that stepped up was the
eighth place open shooter.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
And.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
He had an AD and he shot a hole through
the table with his pistol.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
He was nervous too. Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Now the good thing about that is it wasn't me
that had the AD. But the other good thing was
they all forgot about me missing that target. Now they
all thought about him, you know, shooting that hole in
the table there. So what I started doing. I started
going back to my home range, which was a military range.
And every time I stepped up to the line, you know,
little kids like they'll step up with the football and like, oh,
(11:32):
he's throwing the final pass of the championship game, or
you're a hockey player, you're taking that last shot, you know,
in the Stanley.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Cup playoffs or whatever the night.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, exactly, I'm stepping up to the line and I'm
going to shoot in front of a bunch of people.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
I get nervous just thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Right now, I'm going to step up there, I'm gonna
safely load my weapons, take a deep breath, I'm going
to let all that float away, and I'm going to
do what I know I can, which is watch my site,
squeeze the trigger, and hit the target. So every single
practice session that I did, I made that happen. And
(12:09):
a couple of years later, I was shooting out at
Rio Salados out in Arizona, and I qualified for the
shootoff again, and I stepped up there to load my
weapons and I was absolutely calm, and then I shot
really well in the shoot off as well. I didn't
win the shootoff because there were some really good shooters
in the shootoff and I was just a military guy
(12:30):
that was going up there to shoot. But I got
to tell you, I was more nervous. And I've been
more nervous in shooting competitions than I've ever been in combat.
And I say that because those guys that say that
competition doesn't apply to combat, they just don't.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
They don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
The other thing that I the reason I think that
a lot of law enforcement military get squared away from
competition is because if you go to a shooting competition,
you're going to have some civilian who maybe slightly overweight
or maybe very overweight. They're going to crush you in
that competition, and it can be embarrassing. If you're this big,
(13:08):
macho man, tattooed up, tactical dude and you're getting beat by,
You're gonna be like when I first started shooting prs.
I'm getting beat by like fourteen year old girls.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah you can binge press two hundred pounds.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
But who cares? That didn't scare me away.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
That motivated me, like, Okay, I want to beat the
kids the next time I come out shooting. Okay, now
I'm beating some of the you know, fourteen fifteen year
old girls, and there's some of my still can't beat.
I shot against a girl at one match, Kate Estes.
She ended up like third overall in a national competition,
not third women woman, third overall, and she got beat
(13:48):
by her dad, so she had to let her dad wins.
I think she actually gave him a couple of points
just so he didn't feel bad, and then one other guy.
So you know, if you are a tactical guy, get
out and shoot and go to a competition. It can
be a local just a local pistol match. It can
be a local rifle match. It can be the arc
you know matches, which I think are a great way
(14:09):
for you to kind of cut your teeth. And this
doesn't I'm not talking about the twenty five year old
cop either. If you're the sixty year old guy that
owns an AR, are you really confident and competent with
that weapon system? And if the answer is no, if
you don't know the manual of arms for an AR fifteen,
(14:31):
my grandson, when he was eight years old, he knew
the manual of arms for an AR fifteen and knew
the manual of arms for a semi automatic pistol. It's
not hard, but it's something you have to learn, and
you learn that by going and either you have a
grandpa that teaches you, or you have a friend that
teaches you, or you go out and you show up
(14:52):
to a competent and you've done it. You've showed up
to these competitions. You can show up there literally with
You could show up naked, probably not a good idea,
but somebody's gonna give you a pair of pants because
they probably got a extra pair in their truck. Yeah,
they're gonna give you a shirt, but most importantly, they're
going to give you eyes ear protection, and then they're
gonna give you a weapon, and then they're gonna give
(15:13):
you the AMMO and then they're going to show you
how to shoot that competition. I mean, these people are welcoming.
They want more people to get there. I just took
my grandson to a couple matches and everybody, like everybody
wanted to take pictures of him shooting. They wanted to
talk to him, they wanted to help him anyway they
possibly could. I mean, it's a welcoming It's a very
(15:36):
welcoming group. There are some competitions I've been to that
were not welcoming, and I just don't ever go back.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
To those again. I go to the places where what
is kid rock?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Kid Rock in his restaurant in Nashville, I live outside
of Nashville. He has a big, huge mirror in his
bar and it says, go where you're celebrated, not where
you're tolerated. That's like words to live by, and in
the shooting world, you're gonna be celebrated. My grandson shows
(16:11):
up and he shoots, like the last st age he
shot at that IDP match, he only dropped one point man,
there was a line of people showing up to congratulate
him and say, good job, Denver, good shooting. Well, that's
the same as it's going to be if you show
up and Okay, maybe you don't hit as many targets
as you wanted to, maybe you don't shoot his tight
a group, but you're going to learn something and people
are going to be there to help you. So I
(16:33):
was kind of long winded there, but I think that
it kind of drives home the point that tactical shooting
and competition they go hand in hand, and the best
tactical shooters I've ever shot with are also competition shooters
because now they don't have to think about all those
things like we talked about trigger control or trigger discipline,
using the safety finger off the trigger and not point
(16:55):
your weapon of something you don't want to destroy. Rules
that we we live by in competition, but those rules
apply in combat as well, and when you are.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
A proficient shooter, the manual of arms, the handling and
the marksmanship and all those things. Now in training you
can you can progress further. It's like when you're running
that class, Okay, we don't have to worry about these
people understanding how to grip the gun and press the trigger.
We can move quick, you know, into other things.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
And you know, in.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
On the on the streets, you know, you like, you
know how to focus on the front side and press
the trigger, and maybe you know in the battlefield, you
can worry about the other things, the tactics, the communication,
the whatever, because you know how to run the gun
and it's no big deal. I mean, it's great points, Kyle.
We'll be right back after this break. It's never been
(17:49):
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(19:18):
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(19:40):
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(20:02):
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guys have Viking tactics. You do the training thing, you
also develop products, and I think it's interesting because certainly
there's good gear and bad gear. Sometimes I wonder do
(20:22):
people worry too much about the gear. It's like, you know,
it's the Indian, not the Arros. I always say that
Eddie van Halen could pick up pretty much any guitar
and smoke any of us. Right, you know, the really
good shooters good shoot a mill spec out of the box,
(20:43):
basic gun and probably beat ninety percent of the shooters
out there. But good gear matters? How much does it matter?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I think there are certain things that really matter to
make it a good experience. So when it comes to pistols,
you have to have sites that you can see. Okay,
so put a good of sets. Put a good set
of sights on your pistol. Whether that's a red dot
or whether that's just a high viz front site, or
maybe you're a young guy and you can still shoot
just a blade front site. Whatever works for you to
(21:14):
see your sites well. Having a good trigger in your
rifle or your carbinge, I think that's important. I'm not
talking about a super light trigger. I'm just talking about
having a good, reliable, repeatable trigger that is safe now
when it comes to an ar. Now, I'm going to
add a few other things to that. Back when I
first come in the military, there were no free floated
(21:38):
barrels on ars. Well, free floating your barrel. You can
take pretty much any barrel out there, and if you
free float it, the carbing is going to shoot better
with a free floated barrel. The next thing is a
good trigger. Have a once again, just like I said,
a repeatable, consistent poll trigger. If you like a two
stage by all means do that. If you like a
(21:59):
single stage, then put a single stage trigger in your gun.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
If you get a.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Stock rifle and it has a really, really crappy trigger,
that's just gonna make your experience not as good as
if you had a good trigger, and it's also going
to not allow you to shoot as accurately if you
don't have a good trigger.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
So it is.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I'll just chime in and just say I agree that
a trigger on an AR is probably one of the best.
You get the most bang for your buck as an upgrade,
because there can be some pretty terrible triggers on like
out of the box, you know whatever, basic millspac ars,
(22:37):
and it's just you can be a good shooter.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
And I'm gonna argue with.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Myself because I just said good shooters don't it doesn't matter.
But you can only go so far if you have
a really terrible trigger that you're fighting all the time.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yeah, and I agree with you. A good shooter can
pick up anything and shoot pretty well. I shoot shotguns, pistols,
I shoot everything. I've built a couple flint locked rifles.
That's probably the hardest gun for to shoot because you
got that big flash and you got to sit there
and wait until the gun actually goes off. So it
makes you really follow through shooting a twenty two rifle
(23:08):
or pistol is great practice. And what I would say
is some of the guns I practice with and train with,
I intentionally have not as good a trigger as I
do in my other guns because it makes me, it
makes me work harder on consistent trigger pull straight to
the rear, I back to the car being. I like
(23:31):
a free flow tube. I like a good trigger. And
then you need to have an optic that is a
very good optic. If you can't if you have too
big of a dot, like when I was in Somalia,
you know, we had an aim point that had a
dot that was about this.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Big, so one hundred dot.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Yeah, it was huge.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And we had our sites amounted really high because we
had to because they were mounted on a carrying handle
of a COLT seven to twenty three. Yeah, okay, we
took that rifle. And if you look at the guns
that are using the military, now, what did they change?
They lowered the sites. Okay, that's a positive thing because
it helps you with your trajectory, it helps you with
(24:11):
mounting the rifle quicker. We put a site under that
has a smaller dot, or it has a redical and
now you can get a low powered variable optic that
allows you to do that. We put free float tubes
on them. Pretty much everything about that car being is
the same as it was back in the day. And
you go back to you know, go back to the
(24:33):
very first AR fifteens that were developed. And I've actually
shot one of the original AR fifteens, flat sided AR
fifteen before they had a forward assist, and I was
impressed with iron sights.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
At three hundred yards.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
We were shooting pepper poppers like nothing. So there's that's
an original gun. That's nothing. There's there's nothing new under
the sun other than it. You know, that's original. And
it was a lot lightweight gun, where a lot of
guns now are way too heavy. I continue to push
for lightweight guns because I carry my rifle all day
when I'm teaching. When I was the military, we carried
(25:08):
it all the time for a deployment, so I like
a lighter weight gun. So now we have lighter barrels
that shoot just as well. They maybe not maybe not
for sustained fire, because as you heat that barrel up,
it might drift a little bit more than a heavier barrel.
But we have better triggers and we've got a free
float to and we've got good sights on them.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
So that's it. That's and of course you got to
put a vtack sling on everyone.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I have you do, I mean, you do have to
have a good sling. It's it's you guys are known
for the vtax sling, which is fantastic. It's one of
those things that the people who know have good slings
on their rs. It's almost it's almost like a mark
of you look at the setup and if they've got
(25:51):
a good sling setup, you go like, Okay, probably this
guy has shot a lot, maybe done a lot of
courses and training, probably knows a thing or two. Like
it's just a little bit of a hint that if
you're running a good sling you you probably have figured
out what works and what doesn't.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, and then the last thing that I would add
is a good light. Okay, and lights have come now,
lights have have They're unbelievable now compared to what we had.
We used to have incandescent bulbs, so we had to
carry spare bulbs or spare lamps in our kit so
that if our light went down we could we could
fix that in combat. Now you have the LED lights.
(26:31):
You know, you look at the SIG makes a really
good light for your concealed carry pistol. I think it's
called the Foxtrot two one. It has one CR one
twenty three, so it's a really really good light. It
also has rechargeables. And then you look at on a
car being I really like the uh the Surefire. I
think it's called the Ultra.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Okay, I believe that's not it.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I think it's called the Ultra. Just unbelievable light and
it's got a focused beam so it gives you penetration
at distance. So lights have come a long ways too.
And for common petition you don't really need a light.
But on my carry gun that I carry every day,
I have.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
A light on it.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
You do the rifle that I have around my house,
I have a light on it. Shotguns, I have a
light on it, you know. And it's I think that's
something that some folks may overlook for competition. You don't
need it, like I said, but don't overlook the fact
that most bad things happen at night and a light
is a huge it's just a huge advantage to be
(27:25):
able to identify a threat. Or non threat. It's just
I just feel like it's it's an advantage.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, and there's an argument to be made for those
who've really given this some thought of actually a light,
even in daytime could be really helpful, like you said,
identifying good guy bad guy. You know what's in their
hands and all that stuff. I mean, in a house
in the daytime, but all the lights are off, it's
(27:55):
still pretty dark.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Oh yeah, yep. It's a big advantage. And it's always
have two lights with me. So I have a light
that I carry in my pocket, and I'll show you
this light because you're gonna.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Laugh at it. It's a.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
It's a small little light. Until it's been carried, it's
pretty much worn out there. But it's just a I
carry this one because it's just enough light that I
can light up something if I need to. And this
allows me if I want to just look in a
dead space or something, I can look with my light.
If I have to fix a flat tire. It's got
(28:30):
a little pocket clip on it and I can clip
it onto my I can clip it onto my.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
My hat to do that.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I use this light, maybe not every day, but I
use this probably three times a week for whatever it
might be. And but this is not a replacement for
having a weapon mounted light.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Okay, you know so.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Well light yeah, well, we all have our lights in
our pockets.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Right.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I chuckled because I've got the I've got the same
clip situation. So you know, when I'm wearing a hat,
you can go hands free and it's so handy.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
It's so you'll be able to do that. And you do.
You use it all the time.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, in our course is when I do the street
fighter or the night fighter course, we teach the guys
to use the light as a decoy as well. So
they take their handheld light, they turn it on, they
leave it in position for the bad guys to shoot at,
and then they move to another position to engage a threat.
So the light's a big I think at night. Obviously
at night that's the best time to have a light.
But like you said, during the day you come into
(29:25):
a house, the other thing is your light. Your eyes
take just a little bit to adjust and it allows
you to light light that up. But I use it
for for all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, absolutely, Kyle.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
There's there is a new competition that is growing, growing, growing.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
People are excited about it.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You're you're, you're big on it, and we're going to
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in our ARC, we've talked a lot about it a
little bit on the show.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
But again, you know, you're a.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Guy who likes to try out a lot of different competitions.
You're obviously an AR guy, So talk about NRAARC and
why are you kind of so excited about this and
why should people you know care and maybe try it out.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
So the reason I was excited about the ARC the
America's Rifle Challenge is what that ARC stands for. It's
not for AR, It's for America's Rifle. And I think,
first of all, the name is very fitting because that
is America's rifle. There's a gazillion ars out there. The
problem with the AR is guys buy them and they
get a really nice AR or just an entry level AR,
(33:16):
and they put it in their gun say, or they
put it under the bed or in the closet and
then that's it. And as we said earlier, you know,
competition is a great way to one to hone your skills,
but also just to get confidence in your gun handling.
And for the AR there's just not a lot of
competitions that are entry level like ARC, and ARC allows
(33:40):
this the joe average shooter just to grab the gun
that they have. You don't have to even put you
can put iron sights. Just leave the iron sights on
the gun. You can shoot that competition with iron sights
and you're gonna be fine. Eventually, you're probably gonna want
to put a red dot or an LPVO on the gun.
You have to have a sling.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
It just makes sense.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And what I like about it is it's not all
it's not one dimensional. You're gonna shoot up close, okay,
So what do you have to worry about?
Speaker 4 (34:08):
There?
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Things that some shooters never ever think about. Mechanical offset. Yep,
if you're at seven yards, you're looking through your red dot,
you're gonna hit low. If you don't know what mechanical
offset is, you're not going to hit the bullseye on
that target. Okay, well there you just learn something. I mean,
you don't even have to shoot really to learn that,
but if you shoot, you'll start to remember it. The
(34:32):
other thing that allows you to do is shoot multiple shots.
It allows you to do reloads, which is something I
think we need to we need to work on as shooters.
It's something that I work on quite a bit. The
reload I don't think is gonna going to be the
deciding factor in winning a competition or especially in ARC,
because the speed is is it. It's more of a
(34:53):
mechanical learning than a speed learning. So there's plenty of
time for you to do that reload. You don't have
to have any special magpower, which is you can load
out of your pocket.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
It's not a big deal.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
The other thing that it teaches you to do is
shoot on the move. I think that's a good skill
set to have. You may never shoot on the move.
You know, for the Joe average person that's defending their house,
you're probably going to go to a good secure location,
get in a position, and then call nine one one
or whatever, you know, whatever your plan happens to be.
But if you have to shoot on the move, you
(35:24):
can build that confidence by shooting the arc program there
and then probably no, not, Probably my favorite is when
you move back to one hundred yards and some guys
are not confident in shooting a good group at one
hundred yards. So now you've done that from the prone,
and then you're going to step up to a barricade
(35:45):
and shoot. I believe it's a twelve inch plate that
you shoot at one hundred and you're going to shoot
that from a supported barricade position. So not only are
going to shoot from a barricade, but it'll teach you
how to put the back knee up so you can
use that back knee for stability with your elbow against
your knee. That's a that's a skill that's not just
for competition, it's also for you know, tactical shooting. You're
(36:08):
gonna have to put your safety on as you're moving
from position to position. You're gonna have to be able
to put that gun quickly in and out of that barricade. Uh,
you're gonna have to learn that. When you shoot over
the top of the barricade, you want to keep both
of your legs straight. You don't want them bent because
if they're bent, you're gonna get that little especially when
you're nervous, you'll get a little bit of movement, but
if you straighten your legs, it takes that movement out.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
I just think.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
That that competition and I almost hate to call it
a competition because to me, it's more of a learning
environment than in it is a competition environment. And then
what you're gonna do is you're gonna go to that range.
You're gonna meet a bunch of people that you you
didn't know at the beginning of the day, and by
the end of the day, they're gonna be your friends.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
You're gonna have.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah AR shooters. I mean, I I promise you if
you go to star Bucks in the morning instead of
going to a shooting competition, you're not going to run
into many AR fifteen fans at Starbucks. Whereas if you
go to that art competition, stop at McDonald's and get
good coffee and then go to the art competition, and
you're you're gonna meet people that will become lifelong friends
(37:17):
and eventually hopefully what happens like for me, this is
what happens. I meet people that might be from a
different walk of life, but we all we were brought
together through shooting. And now that person is going to
be somebody that I can tell them when the competitions are,
They can tell me when they are. We can meet there,
we can hang out when we go shoot the local
(37:37):
IDPA match. After the match, we all go out to
eat together. Well that's fun. You get to you know,
find out like what does this guy do for a living?
Not just hey, this is some tactical dude. This is
a guy that you know. He's a computer programmer, or
he's a doctor, or he's the a plumber or whatever
it might be. But that common bond that you have
(37:57):
is the love of the Second Amendment, the love of shooting,
and the love of the AAR fifteen.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
I love it man.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, And it's funny when you kind of talk, kind
of talk through all of these things that you're going
to do at an NRAAR event or competition. It is
I mean, it does check a lot of boxes as
far as all of these things that you're getting to
do in ways that you're running the gun.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
And I know that the NRA.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Guys who put this together said it is kind of
a combination of a competition event but also a training
opportunity and it's run really efficiently too, which I like.
I mean, I'm a guy who still has you know,
kids in school and they got activities or whatever, so
like you're able to show up and in a few
(38:43):
hours you're able to run through all the courses of
fire in this thing. Now we went we did a
video to help kind of it wasn't really like an
educational video, but just to try to let people know
what to expect when they show up, of showing them
the different types of shooting they're going to do. And
(39:05):
it was funny because when we when we did the video,
we had this whole plan we we did we made
a lot of plans to do it, and it was
kind of like day of, I'm letting cag and Chris
and the guys you know, do their planning, and the
day of they're like, hey, Ryan, we're gonna need you
to be one of the shooters in this.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
On on camera, which.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Uh okay, I think, I think. I I don't know
if it was my gun or Chris's gun, but it
was like, give me a gun that sided in, switched
the sling to the guy who shoots from the left shoulder,
and I'll give it a shot. And it was I
had a I had a blast doing it.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Yeah, in that video.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I was telling you before we started that I've watched
that video, and so I know Chris, I know, I
know you, I know kJ. Of course he wasn't in
the video. The other Ryan and his wife were in
the video. Ryan, Yeah, they were in the video. And
you know there's so there's a couple things I want
to point out there. First of all, if you go
(40:06):
to if you just type in in a search, if
you put level one arc NR, it's going to take
you to the NRA site, it's going to take you
right to that video, and you there'll be no surprises
when you show up.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
If you go and you watch, you watch that video.
I do want to.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Point out something about Ryan. Ryan had a devastating accident
with a motorcycle and because of that he has some
difficulty now with his legs and his back and everything.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
You had a bunch of spinal heat issues, Yeah, he had.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
He had a really, really bad injury. He's a great dude.
He had that super bad injury and he's able to
shoot through this competition. So my point there is, if
you have disabilities, don't let that scare you away from
this because just because you have difficult disabilities doesn't mean you.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Don't need to know how to use your ar FI fifteen.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
So if your eyes aren't what they used to be,
I've got my readers right here. If your eyes aren't
what they used to be, your combat chassis maybe is
a little squeaky. Right now, Just get out there and
do this event. The time limits are are plenty for
you to struggle to get into position from a kneeling
position or whatever it might be. And it's going to
(41:22):
also allow you and the people around you to figure
out what works for you one for your body style,
for any disabilities that you might have. I noticed like
Ryan he shot with both these down for kneeling.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Well that's what he had to do because he couldn't
he can't bring that knee up.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Well there you go. So whatever it is, you're going
to figure that out. It's a great video and I'm
I know Chris as well. I've really enjoyed him as
the you know, he's a guy talking talking you through everything,
and he did a spectacular job as well.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Awesome man. Yeah, well it was funny.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
The two things for me and I don't shoot a
lot of competitions. I've done a little bit of everything.
I'm not a master of any of it. And we
even set it before we started on the close shots. Hey, everybody,
heads up, think about your offset, dude.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
I'm telling you that.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
You go up and my first shot or two whatever
it was, it's like, yep, that's three inches low.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
And I even I wasn't supposed to.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
But I even like looked at the camera kind of
like this, did you see that?
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Crap? I just did that.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
They we just set offset and I just did it.
I knew better, but I then you go, yep, offset.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, And that's something that the tactical shooters. You know,
if you think competition doesn't apply to tactics, offset matters.
When you're in tactical shooting situation, you go under a
vehicle to shoot, and you got your rep weapon on
the side, and you only have a small target to
shoot at. I mean that offset definitely applies. So I
think it's a great competition, you know. And then the
nice thing is if you get comfortable with level one
(42:53):
and their ranges get comfortable with level one, then they
can start to run more dynamic horses of fire. I
would tell the guys that think they're hot rod ar shooters,
go shoot that level one and you're gonna see it's
not a give me I mean to clean that course
of fire, it's it's not easy. And then the other
(43:13):
thing is if you have a range that doesn't have
one hundred yards, they have a reduced target. They make
some really cool little targets that you can get from
NRA to shoot the reduced target portion. And just because
you're shooting closer an indoor range doesn't mean it's going
to be easier.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Yeah, they've they've thought of a lot of things with this.
And I'll say the other part for me that was
it was fun, but I kind of afterwards went, oh,
I probably could have done this differently. Was like shooting
from the barricade and running the barricade up and down
this stairstep barricade they've got they've created. I mean, I
did fine, I was hitting the target, but it was
kind of like going, wait a minute, I should have
(43:50):
done that differently. I should have braced the gun against
the side of the barricade, or I should have maybe,
you know, put my other knee up or whatever it was.
And it wasn't like it wasn't terribly difficult. You know,
it's one hundred yards, you're on a barricade, you got
a rest. But I could probably be a little bit
more accurate, a little faster. So yeah, there definitely were
(44:12):
challenges throughout the whole course of fire. And I think
it I mean, look, I'm not a I'm just saying like,
it's it's kind of a they found a sweet spot
with this thing where it's like, oh yeah, somebody could
show up not ever having shot a competition with an
AR and they could have fun and do it. Somebody
(44:34):
who runs a lot of different competitions with an AR
will find this challenging.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
I think it's a pretty cool event.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
And Kyle, I think they're planning a bunch of stuff
for the summer with a bunch of events, right right
they are.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Yep, Yepkay.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
And I just talked to one of my buddies yesterday
and he's convinced his local range to start running these
matches and he's going to be the match director for it.
And he's a very skilled.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
My buddy's name is John Labella up in Pennsylvania. He
shoots small board, he shoots ipsick, he shot IDPA he's
a really good shooter.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
He shoots flint locks.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I mean, and I actually met him through well, actually
met him at a shooting class, and then he ended
up coming to a class where I was forging. I
think he was at a He's been at a couple
of different classes where we're building flint locks from the
ground up, where we're forging knives and tomahawks. So he's
another guy that former law enforcement officer that we become
(45:30):
buddies through training and now through competition, and then of
course through forging and doing that as well. So one
other thing I was going to bring up there, something
as simple as adjusting the having the correct length of
pull on your butt stock. You know, that's something that
a lot of guys they don't like, They don't even
think about that, and they show up and they're they're like,
I'm having trouble. Well, there's a little button you push
(45:51):
and that stock will extend and now you can have
the rifle. Actually I'm six foot tall and I've got
really long arms. Well that allows me to extend that
butt stock and make it work. My grandson shows up,
we're gonna junst the butt stock the right length for him.
So even if you show up and you only have
one gun and you want to bring your grandson or
your granddaughter to shoot, you both can shoot the same
gun and it's just a matter of adjusting the butt stock.
(46:13):
So the ar is just incredible in this ARC competition.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Chad Barber, who who was the ro that was running
you all through that. He Uh, he's been really the
guy pushing this from behind the scenes at NRA. I've
known him for years, so he's got a military background,
he's got a training background, he's got a shooting background,
so it's perfect for what he's doing at NRA.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Yeah, it's it's really cool, all right, Kyle.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
As we as we kind of wrap up, and you know,
before we wrap up, I should say this if somebody
is interested to find out more about this kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
It's n RA rc ARC.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
As you said, America's Rifle Challenge, So just go go
look it up online. You'll find it and you'll find
some some matches near you. As we wrap this up, Kyle,
I would love We're always hard being on the need
for people to do some training, take a training class.
I know, we get into the fun of buying guns
and all this stuff. But you know, a real life
(47:12):
training class, what's the value. I mean, if you had
a couple minutes and someone says, I've never I mean,
I've got guns, i shoot guns, but I've never done
a class. I mean, if you had a couple of
minutes to convince somebody, what would you say.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
So what I tell them is if you come to
one of our classes and I don't. I don't do
any entry level classes, but I recommend that people start small.
You know, if you don't take a concealed carry class,
that's fine, that's a good place to start. But that's
just the tip of the iceberg. Take take a class,
and it doesn't have to be a competition class, but
just any shooting class that you can get into, you know,
(47:46):
do a search and see if the instructor is actually
a good a good person that you should learn from.
And then you know, once you get to a certain level,
maybe you're going to want to go to the next level,
which you know, when we shoot these when we shoot competitions,
I shoot strong in support side. I don't even think
about shooting from my left side because I do it
so often that it's not even a big deal. That's
(48:07):
something we teach in our classes, we teach how to
draw the pistol with one hand, strong hand or support
hand getting over there to get the pistol out, how
to clear malfunctions and do reloads with only your support hand.
So there's a lot of things that you may not
have even thought about that when you go to an instructor,
they're going to show you things that you would have
never ever thought about unless that person brought that up.
(48:30):
And then the other thing is, you know, if you're
going to go take a class where you're going to
stand at seven yards or five yards and just do updrills,
that might be fun for the first ten minutes, but
then it's going to get kind of boring. Try to
take a class that takes you out of your comfort
zone where you're going to shoot multiple positions, where you're
going to shoot from barricades, where you're going to shoot
(48:50):
from maybe rollover prone underneath of a vehicle or underneath
of a barricade, shooting on the move, doing those reloads
under duress. And then the other thing is if you
come to one of my classes, you're going to do
all of this under a time limit, and everybody's really,
really good and very confident until I say, okay, now
(49:12):
it's a competition. I bring out the timer and I
start timing it. If you're not pushing yourself with trying
to shoot more accurately on your target, which is the
most important thing, but then also putting yourself under a
time limit, and then you're shooting in front of your
buddies and you're going to get embarrassed if you shoot poorly.
So this is going to make you want to get
out and practice more. There's just so many things that
(49:34):
competition will will help you with it. You'll be able
to try other people's equipment, You'll be able to see
how that instructor teaches, and maybe you take a class
from me and you're like, I don't really care for
this guy. Okay, well then go take a class from
another instructor or you know whatever.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
It might be.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
One of the problems we have is that we have
a lot of repeat offenders. I've got guys that have
taken thirty classes from me. Yeah thirty, not at three,
but thirty. So now when we open a class at
SEG I do a lot of classes for SIG Academy.
When they open a class for people to sign up
they fill up literally in like ten minutes.
Speaker 4 (50:13):
The class is full.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
So if you want to get into one of my classes,
you're gonna have to go through a kind of a
stare step process to get to the level of where
I'm going to be teaching at. But you know, come
to SIG or come to any of the classes I'm
teaching around the country. But I'm just one of many
instructors that can can really take you to that next
level and build that confidence.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
It's great, man, Kyle, Thanks for being on, Thanks for talking,
and good to see you.
Speaker 4 (50:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
You know, it's funny kJ come out and shot at
one of the things we did with Loopold and that
joker's hooked.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Now. I just noticed.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
I'm pretty sure next weekend he's shooting with me in Alabama.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah, he told me, he said, tell, Kyle said, high,
I'll see him at the next match.
Speaker 4 (50:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
Well, you know, you create a monster when you go
out there one you meet new people. I'm going to
tell you one more quick story, real quick. In January,
I wanted to shoot a match in New Mexico before
I went to the shot show. So my wife and
I flew into Colorado and drove to ratone to shoot
at the Whittington NRA Winnington Center, and I went online
(51:17):
and I just put my name in a squad. I
didn't know anybody like I just put my name down.
I'm in a squad. A couple days before the match,
I looked at the names in the squad. I did
not know one single person in that squad. I showed up.
At the end of two days, I've got ten new friends.
And the cool thing about that is, not only are
(51:38):
they friends that I made at that match. One of
these guys, Pete, I've seen him at I think three
other NORL Hunter matches since then, so now he's a
friendly face that when I walk by him, we're friends.
He's a guy from Louisiana.
Speaker 4 (51:53):
Great dude.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
I get to see him at every match that we
shoot together. The other thing is some of these guys
they've reached out to me, like, hey, I went on
your website, I bought a couple of your books. You know,
it's just you're meeting people that you can stay in
contact with, that are like minded and also want to learn.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
So yeah, get out and compete.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
ARC is the to me, that's the best entry level
shooting competition that you can get into and it's super
easy to sign up.
Speaker 4 (52:22):
Just go do it.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah, you'll have a blast. You'll have a blast, everybody.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
Kyle, thanks again man, it's been fun.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
Everybody.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Thanks for listening and thanks for watching. We'll see you
next time on gun Dog Nation.
The problem with the AR is guys buy them and
they get a really nice AR or just an entry
level AR, and they put it in their gun say,
or they put it under the bed or in the
closet and then that's it. And as we said earlier,
you know, competition is a great way to one to
hone your skills, but also just to get confidence in
your gun handling. And for the AR, there's just not
(00:24):
a lot of competitions that are entry level like ARC.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm Ryan Gresham and this this is guntog Nation. Guntog
Nation is brought to you by Arcan Firearms, Silence are Central,
(00:52):
fn Eotech, Taurus, Vortex cz Usa and Silent Steel.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Hey, welcome into gun dog Nation. Today.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
On gun dog Nation, our guest is a guy you
probably have heard of and probably seen.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Kyle Lamb is here with us. Kyle, welcome in man.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Hey, thanks for having me. Man, I'm excited. It's always
good to hang out with you jokers.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, I love it, dude, This was I didn't And
for those I always want to give a little bit
of background because I always say that the gun world
is we have our little world of like we know
everybody and all that but for a lot of people,
you know, they have, you know, real.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Lives and jobs, and they don't. They don't.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
They're not gun nerds like some of us. So just
a little bit a background on Kyle Serve and tell
me what what we got wrong and what you hate
on this description on the bio. Kyle Serve fifteen years
in Delta Force US Armies Elite special operations, a bunch
of missions including Battle of Mogadishu also known as Blackhawk Down.
(01:56):
After retiring, founded Viking Tactics focused on tactical training and gear.
Also an author, has written some books and consults with
a lot of different companies in the world of firearms, optics, Sammo,
all of those things. And you're also a guy who
still trains, still competes, and still is yank and triggers.
(02:18):
So thanks for being with.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Us, man.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I try not to yank the trigger, but that does
happen every now and again.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Oh man, it's awesome. You got everything right there. It's
awesome to be with you, and it is. It's true.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I'm a lifelong learner. I'm a lifelong competitor.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Really, anything I do I try to be competitive at
And I realized many years ago that I often go
away from competition, but I always come back to it,
and I always come back to guns and hunting and
fishing and really any kind of any kind of shooting
that I can do. And I'm I'm shooting a lot
(02:58):
of Annaeil hunter stuff right now. I'm shooting some MINERL
twenty two stuff, shoots a little bit of prs. I
still compete with a pistol. And then of course, you
know this new competition that's out there. Arc is UH
is on a lot of our minds because it's a
good way for us to work with some of the
new shooters that are coming on board.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
You're kind of a guy who likes to you like
all of it.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I mean, there's certainly lots of worlds where somebody could
say I'm a tactical guy, meaning you know, I shoot
semi auto pistols in ars or whatever. And then there's
the and then there's the long range guys, and then
there's the hunting guys. But you seem to kind of
enjoy all of the stuff with guns, anything to do
with guns, Is that right?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
My wife she told she tells people she goes, I
don't want people to find out that he would do
this all for free, because I mean literally, when I
have a day off, I go shooting, you know, and
I take my grandson shooting my granddaughter if I can
convince her, I take my kids shooting. My wife shoots. Now,
they don't shoot as heavily or well, actually, my grandson
(04:03):
he'll shoot. He won't leave the range until either we're
out of am L I say, we gotta go. He was
here a week ago for spring break. We filmed the
TV show while he was here, and he was on
the show and he shot against the host out to
five hundred yards. He's twelve years old, and he tied
with the host. We shot an IDPA match and he
shot his twenty two of SIG three twenty two, and
(04:27):
then that weekend we went and shot an NRL twenty
two match. So the point is not like what I
want to do with my grandson, and I look at
this with me as well.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
I get bored very easily.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I'm always looking for something new to figure out and
to learn. And if he gets bored with shooting his
Ruger ten twenty two, then we're going to shoot his
SIG twenty two pistol and then we're going to shoot
an ar to get him ready for hunting. He's twelve
and he's already killed a couple deer. And then we
started shooting some long rang and the long range stuff
(05:02):
wasn't so much that I wanted him to do competition.
But he has a lot of questions about sniper stuff
and about tanks and artillery and all this stuff. Well,
I can't answer the questions on tanks and artillery, but
dog gone, I can answer the questions on sniper stuff.
So explaining to him mills and it's really fun because
(05:24):
if you get a fresh, a fresh, clean slate to
work with, like a twelve year old boy that wants
to shoot, wants to hang out with his grandpa. Sometimes
I'm not the easiest guy to hang out with until
we get to the range. When we get to the range,
I'm in my element and I can really mentor him
and teach him. I had him shooting with a twenty
(05:46):
two on my range out to two hundred and twenty yards,
which with a twenty two is a pretty big deal.
First we were dialing and he's shooting Mills. He's not
shooting minutes of angle. He's shooting mills. He's using a
loophold scope with mills come ups in it. And then
once he figured that out, then we started doing mill
holdovers and he was able to quickly do that as well.
(06:08):
So yeah, it's just any kind of shooting I can do.
It's just awesome. And if you can take your kids shooting,
take your friends shooting. You know, I always tell people
that if you go out and shoot an AR, if
you don't shoot like shooting an AR, you're mentally jacked up,
because shooting an AR to me is like the.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
That's probably to me.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Now, I'm not saying it's got to be a five
five six AR, but a twenty two AR, five five
six r whatever it happens to be. First of all,
I can make that rifle fit anybody on the planet.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
If you're six foot five, it will fit you.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
If you're four foot eleven, it will fit you. It
doesn't have vicious recoil, so you're gonna want to keep shooting.
It's very inexpensive to shoot. I mean, there's just so
many good things about the AR, And I told you
this before we started the podcast. I think it's the
greatest combat carbing ever ever designed. You know, so it's
(07:06):
just a it's just a great weapon. Of course, that's
what I used in the military, so I'm very fond
of it because of that.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
But it's uh, yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I don't think anyone's gonna argue with you on that one, Kyle. Yeah,
So I have a question because I got I have
a lot of questions. Okay, tactical versus competition. Sometimes the
tactical and competition guys like want to argue with each
other of like competitions not training for for you know,
(07:39):
tactical applications or vice versa or whatever. But I tend
to think shooting shooting, you know, like, I mean, what
are your what's your take when people want to argue
about that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
If you think competition shooting has no application to tactical shooting,
you're probably stupid. I mean, no, not probably stupid, you're
you're you're stupid. I'm telling you, if I can take
I can take the best shooter on the planet and
I can teach him tactics. I can take the best
(08:12):
tactical guy, and if he can't shoot, his tactics aren't
worth a hoot. Yeah, And I'll give you an example,
I've got a good friend, Lynn Ashley, he's retired colonel
SF colonel, and he told me one day we were
we were teaching some guys some low light close quarter
battle type techniques. We weren't teaching them to do military CQB,
(08:34):
but we were teaching them in their house if they
had to and it was dark, how they would use
a flashlight, how they would move safely from room to
room and search those rooms, and if they had to
eliminate that threat. Well, every single person that we had
at that event was a shooter. So I never had
to say put your safety on. I never had to
(08:55):
say take your finger off the trigger. I never had
to say don't point your weapon at me or or
anybody else anything you don't want to destroy. Never had
to say any of that. And that wasn't because they
were good tactical guys. It was because they were good shooters.
So my argument to that is, if if you're not
shooting competition as a law enforcement officer, as a military guy,
(09:17):
you really should look into that.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
The uh.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I don't know, maybe you've heard this story before, but
the most nervous I've ever been with a gun in
my hand was one year, I was shooting the three
Gun Nationals and they did a top They did like
a top eight shoot off, Top eight open, Top eight limited,
and I did not finish in the top eight.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
I was number nine.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
So I showed up for this. I was just gonna
show up and watch these jokers shoot. Yeah, And then
they call out the eighth place guy and he didn't
show up, and they go, by chance, is Kyle Lamb here?
And I'm like, I'm here, what And they go, We're
gonna You're gonna be part of the shootoff. So this
shoot off was rifle, shotgun and pistol, and you had
(10:05):
to step up to a table load your weapons, and
then you had to do this shoot off and it
was a timed event. I stepped up to that table
and I could barely load my weapons. I was so nervous.
I was shaken, and I'm like, what is wrong with me?
So then I shoot? I shoot it. I was the
very first shooter. So everybody's watching what I'm doing, to
(10:26):
include all the really good shooters. They're watching me too.
And I had one target I didn't engage because I
didn't honestly, I didn't even know that target was there.
Was a piece of steel. I was supposed to shoot
with my car being and I didn't. I didn't shoot it.
I got done with that, and I was I was
embarrassed because I had done poorly. I was also embarrassed
for myself because I was so nervous, Like it's almost
(10:46):
like I lost my hand eye coordination when I stepped
up to do this because I was so jacked up
with adrenaline. The next shooter that stepped up was the
eighth place open shooter.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
And.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
He had an AD and he shot a hole through
the table with his pistol.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
He was nervous too. Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Now the good thing about that is it wasn't me
that had the AD. But the other good thing was
they all forgot about me missing that target. Now they
all thought about him, you know, shooting that hole in
the table there. So what I started doing. I started
going back to my home range, which was a military range.
And every time I stepped up to the line, you know,
little kids like they'll step up with the football and like, oh,
(11:32):
he's throwing the final pass of the championship game, or
you're a hockey player, you're taking that last shot, you know,
in the Stanley.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Cup playoffs or whatever the night.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, exactly, I'm stepping up to the line and I'm
going to shoot in front of a bunch of people.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
I get nervous just thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Right now, I'm going to step up there, I'm gonna
safely load my weapons, take a deep breath, I'm going
to let all that float away, and I'm going to
do what I know I can, which is watch my site,
squeeze the trigger, and hit the target. So every single
practice session that I did, I made that happen. And
(12:09):
a couple of years later, I was shooting out at
Rio Salados out in Arizona, and I qualified for the
shootoff again, and I stepped up there to load my
weapons and I was absolutely calm, and then I shot
really well in the shoot off as well. I didn't
win the shootoff because there were some really good shooters
in the shootoff and I was just a military guy
(12:30):
that was going up there to shoot. But I got
to tell you, I was more nervous. And I've been
more nervous in shooting competitions than I've ever been in combat.
And I say that because those guys that say that
competition doesn't apply to combat, they just don't.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
They don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
The other thing that I the reason I think that
a lot of law enforcement military get squared away from
competition is because if you go to a shooting competition,
you're going to have some civilian who maybe slightly overweight
or maybe very overweight. They're going to crush you in
that competition, and it can be embarrassing. If you're this big,
(13:08):
macho man, tattooed up, tactical dude and you're getting beat by,
You're gonna be like when I first started shooting prs.
I'm getting beat by like fourteen year old girls.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah you can binge press two hundred pounds.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
But who cares? That didn't scare me away.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
That motivated me, like, Okay, I want to beat the
kids the next time I come out shooting. Okay, now
I'm beating some of the you know, fourteen fifteen year
old girls, and there's some of my still can't beat.
I shot against a girl at one match, Kate Estes.
She ended up like third overall in a national competition,
not third women woman, third overall, and she got beat
(13:48):
by her dad, so she had to let her dad wins.
I think she actually gave him a couple of points
just so he didn't feel bad, and then one other guy.
So you know, if you are a tactical guy, get
out and shoot and go to a competition. It can
be a local just a local pistol match. It can
be a local rifle match. It can be the arc
you know matches, which I think are a great way
(14:09):
for you to kind of cut your teeth. And this
doesn't I'm not talking about the twenty five year old
cop either. If you're the sixty year old guy that
owns an AR, are you really confident and competent with
that weapon system? And if the answer is no, if
you don't know the manual of arms for an AR fifteen,
(14:31):
my grandson, when he was eight years old, he knew
the manual of arms for an AR fifteen and knew
the manual of arms for a semi automatic pistol. It's
not hard, but it's something you have to learn, and
you learn that by going and either you have a
grandpa that teaches you, or you have a friend that
teaches you, or you go out and you show up
(14:52):
to a competent and you've done it. You've showed up
to these competitions. You can show up there literally with
You could show up naked, probably not a good idea,
but somebody's gonna give you a pair of pants because
they probably got a extra pair in their truck. Yeah,
they're gonna give you a shirt, but most importantly, they're
going to give you eyes ear protection, and then they're
gonna give you a weapon, and then they're gonna give
(15:13):
you the AMMO and then they're going to show you
how to shoot that competition. I mean, these people are welcoming.
They want more people to get there. I just took
my grandson to a couple matches and everybody, like everybody
wanted to take pictures of him shooting. They wanted to
talk to him, they wanted to help him anyway they
possibly could. I mean, it's a welcoming It's a very
(15:36):
welcoming group. There are some competitions I've been to that
were not welcoming, and I just don't ever go back.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
To those again. I go to the places where what
is kid rock?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Kid Rock in his restaurant in Nashville, I live outside
of Nashville. He has a big, huge mirror in his
bar and it says, go where you're celebrated, not where
you're tolerated. That's like words to live by, and in
the shooting world, you're gonna be celebrated. My grandson shows
(16:11):
up and he shoots, like the last st age he
shot at that IDP match, he only dropped one point man,
there was a line of people showing up to congratulate
him and say, good job, Denver, good shooting. Well, that's
the same as it's going to be if you show
up and Okay, maybe you don't hit as many targets
as you wanted to, maybe you don't shoot his tight
a group, but you're going to learn something and people
are going to be there to help you. So I
(16:33):
was kind of long winded there, but I think that
it kind of drives home the point that tactical shooting
and competition they go hand in hand, and the best
tactical shooters I've ever shot with are also competition shooters
because now they don't have to think about all those
things like we talked about trigger control or trigger discipline,
using the safety finger off the trigger and not point
(16:55):
your weapon of something you don't want to destroy. Rules
that we we live by in competition, but those rules
apply in combat as well, and when you are.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
A proficient shooter, the manual of arms, the handling and
the marksmanship and all those things. Now in training you
can you can progress further. It's like when you're running
that class, Okay, we don't have to worry about these
people understanding how to grip the gun and press the trigger.
We can move quick, you know, into other things.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
And you know, in.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
On the on the streets, you know, you like, you
know how to focus on the front side and press
the trigger, and maybe you know in the battlefield, you
can worry about the other things, the tactics, the communication,
the whatever, because you know how to run the gun
and it's no big deal. I mean, it's great points, Kyle.
We'll be right back after this break. It's never been
(17:49):
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(19:18):
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(19:40):
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(20:02):
home defense, or just to do it all pistol, the
TX nine series is worth a look. So, Kyle, you
guys have Viking tactics. You do the training thing, you
also develop products, and I think it's interesting because certainly
there's good gear and bad gear. Sometimes I wonder do
(20:22):
people worry too much about the gear. It's like, you know,
it's the Indian, not the Arros. I always say that
Eddie van Halen could pick up pretty much any guitar
and smoke any of us. Right, you know, the really
good shooters good shoot a mill spec out of the box,
(20:43):
basic gun and probably beat ninety percent of the shooters
out there. But good gear matters? How much does it matter?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I think there are certain things that really matter to
make it a good experience. So when it comes to pistols,
you have to have sites that you can see. Okay,
so put a good of sets. Put a good set
of sights on your pistol. Whether that's a red dot
or whether that's just a high viz front site, or
maybe you're a young guy and you can still shoot
just a blade front site. Whatever works for you to
(21:14):
see your sites well. Having a good trigger in your
rifle or your carbinge, I think that's important. I'm not
talking about a super light trigger. I'm just talking about
having a good, reliable, repeatable trigger that is safe now
when it comes to an ar. Now, I'm going to
add a few other things to that. Back when I
first come in the military, there were no free floated
(21:38):
barrels on ars. Well, free floating your barrel. You can
take pretty much any barrel out there, and if you
free float it, the carbing is going to shoot better
with a free floated barrel. The next thing is a
good trigger. Have a once again, just like I said,
a repeatable, consistent poll trigger. If you like a two
stage by all means do that. If you like a
(21:59):
single stage, then put a single stage trigger in your gun.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
If you get a.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Stock rifle and it has a really, really crappy trigger,
that's just gonna make your experience not as good as
if you had a good trigger, and it's also going
to not allow you to shoot as accurately if you
don't have a good trigger.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
So it is.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I'll just chime in and just say I agree that
a trigger on an AR is probably one of the best.
You get the most bang for your buck as an upgrade,
because there can be some pretty terrible triggers on like
out of the box, you know whatever, basic millspac ars,
(22:37):
and it's just you can be a good shooter.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
And I'm gonna argue with.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Myself because I just said good shooters don't it doesn't matter.
But you can only go so far if you have
a really terrible trigger that you're fighting all the time.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yeah, and I agree with you. A good shooter can
pick up anything and shoot pretty well. I shoot shotguns, pistols,
I shoot everything. I've built a couple flint locked rifles.
That's probably the hardest gun for to shoot because you
got that big flash and you got to sit there
and wait until the gun actually goes off. So it
makes you really follow through shooting a twenty two rifle
(23:08):
or pistol is great practice. And what I would say
is some of the guns I practice with and train with,
I intentionally have not as good a trigger as I
do in my other guns because it makes me, it
makes me work harder on consistent trigger pull straight to
the rear, I back to the car being. I like
(23:31):
a free flow tube. I like a good trigger. And
then you need to have an optic that is a
very good optic. If you can't if you have too
big of a dot, like when I was in Somalia,
you know, we had an aim point that had a
dot that was about this.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Big, so one hundred dot.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Yeah, it was huge.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And we had our sites amounted really high because we
had to because they were mounted on a carrying handle
of a COLT seven to twenty three. Yeah, okay, we
took that rifle. And if you look at the guns
that are using the military, now, what did they change?
They lowered the sites. Okay, that's a positive thing because
it helps you with your trajectory, it helps you with
(24:11):
mounting the rifle quicker. We put a site under that
has a smaller dot, or it has a redical and
now you can get a low powered variable optic that
allows you to do that. We put free float tubes
on them. Pretty much everything about that car being is
the same as it was back in the day. And
you go back to you know, go back to the
(24:33):
very first AR fifteens that were developed. And I've actually
shot one of the original AR fifteens, flat sided AR
fifteen before they had a forward assist, and I was
impressed with iron sights.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
At three hundred yards.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
We were shooting pepper poppers like nothing. So there's that's
an original gun. That's nothing. There's there's nothing new under
the sun other than it. You know, that's original. And
it was a lot lightweight gun, where a lot of
guns now are way too heavy. I continue to push
for lightweight guns because I carry my rifle all day
when I'm teaching. When I was the military, we carried
(25:08):
it all the time for a deployment, so I like
a lighter weight gun. So now we have lighter barrels
that shoot just as well. They maybe not maybe not
for sustained fire, because as you heat that barrel up,
it might drift a little bit more than a heavier barrel.
But we have better triggers and we've got a free
float to and we've got good sights on them.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
So that's it. That's and of course you got to
put a vtack sling on everyone.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I have you do, I mean, you do have to
have a good sling. It's it's you guys are known
for the vtax sling, which is fantastic. It's one of
those things that the people who know have good slings
on their rs. It's almost it's almost like a mark
of you look at the setup and if they've got
(25:51):
a good sling setup, you go like, Okay, probably this
guy has shot a lot, maybe done a lot of
courses and training, probably knows a thing or two. Like
it's just a little bit of a hint that if
you're running a good sling you you probably have figured
out what works and what doesn't.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, and then the last thing that I would add
is a good light. Okay, and lights have come now,
lights have have They're unbelievable now compared to what we had.
We used to have incandescent bulbs, so we had to
carry spare bulbs or spare lamps in our kit so
that if our light went down we could we could
fix that in combat. Now you have the LED lights.
(26:31):
You know, you look at the SIG makes a really
good light for your concealed carry pistol. I think it's
called the Foxtrot two one. It has one CR one
twenty three, so it's a really really good light. It
also has rechargeables. And then you look at on a
car being I really like the uh the Surefire. I
think it's called the Ultra.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Okay, I believe that's not it.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I think it's called the Ultra. Just unbelievable light and
it's got a focused beam so it gives you penetration
at distance. So lights have come a long ways too.
And for common petition you don't really need a light.
But on my carry gun that I carry every day,
I have.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
A light on it.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
You do the rifle that I have around my house,
I have a light on it. Shotguns, I have a
light on it, you know. And it's I think that's
something that some folks may overlook for competition. You don't
need it, like I said, but don't overlook the fact
that most bad things happen at night and a light
is a huge it's just a huge advantage to be
(27:25):
able to identify a threat. Or non threat. It's just
I just feel like it's it's an advantage.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, and there's an argument to be made for those
who've really given this some thought of actually a light,
even in daytime could be really helpful, like you said,
identifying good guy bad guy. You know what's in their
hands and all that stuff. I mean, in a house
in the daytime, but all the lights are off, it's
(27:55):
still pretty dark.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Oh yeah, yep. It's a big advantage. And it's always
have two lights with me. So I have a light
that I carry in my pocket, and I'll show you
this light because you're gonna.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Laugh at it. It's a.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
It's a small little light. Until it's been carried, it's
pretty much worn out there. But it's just a I
carry this one because it's just enough light that I
can light up something if I need to. And this
allows me if I want to just look in a
dead space or something, I can look with my light.
If I have to fix a flat tire. It's got
(28:30):
a little pocket clip on it and I can clip
it onto my I can clip it onto my.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
My hat to do that.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I use this light, maybe not every day, but I
use this probably three times a week for whatever it
might be. And but this is not a replacement for
having a weapon mounted light.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Okay, you know so.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Well light yeah, well, we all have our lights in
our pockets.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Right.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
It's funny.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I chuckled because I've got the I've got the same
clip situation. So you know, when I'm wearing a hat,
you can go hands free and it's so handy.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
It's so you'll be able to do that. And you do.
You use it all the time.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, in our course is when I do the street
fighter or the night fighter course, we teach the guys
to use the light as a decoy as well. So
they take their handheld light, they turn it on, they
leave it in position for the bad guys to shoot at,
and then they move to another position to engage a threat.
So the light's a big I think at night. Obviously
at night that's the best time to have a light.
But like you said, during the day you come into
(29:25):
a house, the other thing is your light. Your eyes
take just a little bit to adjust and it allows
you to light light that up. But I use it
for for all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, absolutely, Kyle.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
There's there is a new competition that is growing, growing, growing.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
People are excited about it.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You're you're, you're big on it, and we're going to
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in our ARC, we've talked a lot about it a
little bit on the show.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
But again, you know, you're a.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Guy who likes to try out a lot of different competitions.
You're obviously an AR guy, So talk about NRAARC and
why are you kind of so excited about this and
why should people you know care and maybe try it out.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
So the reason I was excited about the ARC the
America's Rifle Challenge is what that ARC stands for. It's
not for AR, It's for America's Rifle. And I think,
first of all, the name is very fitting because that
is America's rifle. There's a gazillion ars out there. The
problem with the AR is guys buy them and they
get a really nice AR or just an entry level AR,
(33:16):
and they put it in their gun say, or they
put it under the bed or in the closet and
then that's it. And as we said earlier, you know,
competition is a great way to one to hone your skills,
but also just to get confidence in your gun handling.
And for the AR there's just not a lot of
competitions that are entry level like ARC, and ARC allows
(33:40):
this the joe average shooter just to grab the gun
that they have. You don't have to even put you
can put iron sights. Just leave the iron sights on
the gun. You can shoot that competition with iron sights
and you're gonna be fine. Eventually, you're probably gonna want
to put a red dot or an LPVO on the gun.
You have to have a sling.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
It just makes sense.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And what I like about it is it's not all
it's not one dimensional. You're gonna shoot up close, okay,
So what do you have to worry about?
Speaker 4 (34:08):
There?
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Things that some shooters never ever think about. Mechanical offset. Yep,
if you're at seven yards, you're looking through your red dot,
you're gonna hit low. If you don't know what mechanical
offset is, you're not going to hit the bullseye on
that target. Okay, well there you just learn something. I mean,
you don't even have to shoot really to learn that,
but if you shoot, you'll start to remember it. The
(34:32):
other thing that allows you to do is shoot multiple shots.
It allows you to do reloads, which is something I
think we need to we need to work on as shooters.
It's something that I work on quite a bit. The
reload I don't think is gonna going to be the
deciding factor in winning a competition or especially in ARC,
because the speed is is it. It's more of a
(34:53):
mechanical learning than a speed learning. So there's plenty of
time for you to do that reload. You don't have
to have any special magpower, which is you can load
out of your pocket.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
It's not a big deal.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
The other thing that it teaches you to do is
shoot on the move. I think that's a good skill
set to have. You may never shoot on the move.
You know, for the Joe average person that's defending their house,
you're probably going to go to a good secure location,
get in a position, and then call nine one one
or whatever, you know, whatever your plan happens to be.
But if you have to shoot on the move, you
(35:24):
can build that confidence by shooting the arc program there
and then probably no, not, Probably my favorite is when
you move back to one hundred yards and some guys
are not confident in shooting a good group at one
hundred yards. So now you've done that from the prone,
and then you're going to step up to a barricade
(35:45):
and shoot. I believe it's a twelve inch plate that
you shoot at one hundred and you're going to shoot
that from a supported barricade position. So not only are
going to shoot from a barricade, but it'll teach you
how to put the back knee up so you can
use that back knee for stability with your elbow against
your knee. That's a that's a skill that's not just
for competition, it's also for you know, tactical shooting. You're
(36:08):
gonna have to put your safety on as you're moving
from position to position. You're gonna have to be able
to put that gun quickly in and out of that barricade. Uh,
you're gonna have to learn that. When you shoot over
the top of the barricade, you want to keep both
of your legs straight. You don't want them bent because
if they're bent, you're gonna get that little especially when
you're nervous, you'll get a little bit of movement, but
if you straighten your legs, it takes that movement out.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
I just think.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
That that competition and I almost hate to call it
a competition because to me, it's more of a learning
environment than in it is a competition environment. And then
what you're gonna do is you're gonna go to that range.
You're gonna meet a bunch of people that you you
didn't know at the beginning of the day, and by
the end of the day, they're gonna be your friends.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
You're gonna have.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah AR shooters. I mean, I I promise you if
you go to star Bucks in the morning instead of
going to a shooting competition, you're not going to run
into many AR fifteen fans at Starbucks. Whereas if you
go to that art competition, stop at McDonald's and get
good coffee and then go to the art competition, and
you're you're gonna meet people that will become lifelong friends
(37:17):
and eventually hopefully what happens like for me, this is
what happens. I meet people that might be from a
different walk of life, but we all we were brought
together through shooting. And now that person is going to
be somebody that I can tell them when the competitions are,
They can tell me when they are. We can meet there,
we can hang out when we go shoot the local
(37:37):
IDPA match. After the match, we all go out to
eat together. Well that's fun. You get to you know,
find out like what does this guy do for a living?
Not just hey, this is some tactical dude. This is
a guy that you know. He's a computer programmer, or
he's a doctor, or he's the a plumber or whatever
it might be. But that common bond that you have
(37:57):
is the love of the Second Amendment, the love of shooting,
and the love of the AAR fifteen.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
I love it man.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, And it's funny when you kind of talk, kind
of talk through all of these things that you're going
to do at an NRAAR event or competition. It is
I mean, it does check a lot of boxes as
far as all of these things that you're getting to
do in ways that you're running the gun.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
And I know that the NRA.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Guys who put this together said it is kind of
a combination of a competition event but also a training
opportunity and it's run really efficiently too, which I like.
I mean, I'm a guy who still has you know,
kids in school and they got activities or whatever, so
like you're able to show up and in a few
(38:43):
hours you're able to run through all the courses of
fire in this thing. Now we went we did a
video to help kind of it wasn't really like an
educational video, but just to try to let people know
what to expect when they show up, of showing them
the different types of shooting they're going to do. And
(39:05):
it was funny because when we when we did the video,
we had this whole plan we we did we made
a lot of plans to do it, and it was
kind of like day of, I'm letting cag and Chris
and the guys you know, do their planning, and the
day of they're like, hey, Ryan, we're gonna need you
to be one of the shooters in this.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
On on camera, which.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Uh okay, I think, I think. I I don't know
if it was my gun or Chris's gun, but it
was like, give me a gun that sided in, switched
the sling to the guy who shoots from the left shoulder,
and I'll give it a shot. And it was I
had a I had a blast doing it.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Yeah, in that video.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I was telling you before we started that I've watched
that video, and so I know Chris, I know, I
know you, I know kJ. Of course he wasn't in
the video. The other Ryan and his wife were in
the video. Ryan, Yeah, they were in the video. And
you know there's so there's a couple things I want
to point out there. First of all, if you go
(40:06):
to if you just type in in a search, if
you put level one arc NR, it's going to take
you to the NRA site, it's going to take you
right to that video, and you there'll be no surprises
when you show up.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
If you go and you watch, you watch that video.
I do want to.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Point out something about Ryan. Ryan had a devastating accident
with a motorcycle and because of that he has some
difficulty now with his legs and his back and everything.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
You had a bunch of spinal heat issues, Yeah, he had.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
He had a really, really bad injury. He's a great dude.
He had that super bad injury and he's able to
shoot through this competition. So my point there is, if
you have disabilities, don't let that scare you away from
this because just because you have difficult disabilities doesn't mean you.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Don't need to know how to use your ar FI fifteen.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
So if your eyes aren't what they used to be,
I've got my readers right here. If your eyes aren't
what they used to be, your combat chassis maybe is
a little squeaky. Right now, Just get out there and
do this event. The time limits are are plenty for
you to struggle to get into position from a kneeling
position or whatever it might be. And it's going to
(41:22):
also allow you and the people around you to figure
out what works for you one for your body style,
for any disabilities that you might have. I noticed like
Ryan he shot with both these down for kneeling.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Well that's what he had to do because he couldn't
he can't bring that knee up.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Well there you go. So whatever it is, you're going
to figure that out. It's a great video and I'm
I know Chris as well. I've really enjoyed him as
the you know, he's a guy talking talking you through everything,
and he did a spectacular job as well.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Awesome man. Yeah, well it was funny.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
The two things for me and I don't shoot a
lot of competitions. I've done a little bit of everything.
I'm not a master of any of it. And we
even set it before we started on the close shots. Hey, everybody,
heads up, think about your offset, dude.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
I'm telling you that.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
You go up and my first shot or two whatever
it was, it's like, yep, that's three inches low.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
And I even I wasn't supposed to.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
But I even like looked at the camera kind of
like this, did you see that?
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Crap? I just did that.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
They we just set offset and I just did it.
I knew better, but I then you go, yep, offset.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, And that's something that the tactical shooters. You know,
if you think competition doesn't apply to tactics, offset matters.
When you're in tactical shooting situation, you go under a
vehicle to shoot, and you got your rep weapon on
the side, and you only have a small target to
shoot at. I mean that offset definitely applies. So I
think it's a great competition, you know. And then the
nice thing is if you get comfortable with level one
(42:53):
and their ranges get comfortable with level one, then they
can start to run more dynamic horses of fire. I
would tell the guys that think they're hot rod ar shooters,
go shoot that level one and you're gonna see it's
not a give me I mean to clean that course
of fire, it's it's not easy. And then the other
(43:13):
thing is if you have a range that doesn't have
one hundred yards, they have a reduced target. They make
some really cool little targets that you can get from
NRA to shoot the reduced target portion. And just because
you're shooting closer an indoor range doesn't mean it's going
to be easier.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Yeah, they've they've thought of a lot of things with this.
And I'll say the other part for me that was
it was fun, but I kind of afterwards went, oh,
I probably could have done this differently. Was like shooting
from the barricade and running the barricade up and down
this stairstep barricade they've got they've created. I mean, I
did fine, I was hitting the target, but it was
kind of like going, wait a minute, I should have
(43:50):
done that differently. I should have braced the gun against
the side of the barricade, or I should have maybe,
you know, put my other knee up or whatever it was.
And it wasn't like it wasn't terribly difficult. You know,
it's one hundred yards, you're on a barricade, you got
a rest. But I could probably be a little bit
more accurate, a little faster. So yeah, there definitely were
(44:12):
challenges throughout the whole course of fire. And I think
it I mean, look, I'm not a I'm just saying like,
it's it's kind of a they found a sweet spot
with this thing where it's like, oh yeah, somebody could
show up not ever having shot a competition with an
AR and they could have fun and do it. Somebody
(44:34):
who runs a lot of different competitions with an AR
will find this challenging.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
I think it's a pretty cool event.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
And Kyle, I think they're planning a bunch of stuff
for the summer with a bunch of events, right right
they are.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Yep, Yepkay.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
And I just talked to one of my buddies yesterday
and he's convinced his local range to start running these
matches and he's going to be the match director for it.
And he's a very skilled.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
My buddy's name is John Labella up in Pennsylvania. He
shoots small board, he shoots ipsick, he shot IDPA he's
a really good shooter.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
He shoots flint locks.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I mean, and I actually met him through well, actually
met him at a shooting class, and then he ended
up coming to a class where I was forging. I
think he was at a He's been at a couple
of different classes where we're building flint locks from the
ground up, where we're forging knives and tomahawks. So he's
another guy that former law enforcement officer that we become
(45:30):
buddies through training and now through competition, and then of
course through forging and doing that as well. So one
other thing I was going to bring up there, something
as simple as adjusting the having the correct length of
pull on your butt stock. You know, that's something that
a lot of guys they don't like, They don't even
think about that, and they show up and they're they're like,
I'm having trouble. Well, there's a little button you push
(45:51):
and that stock will extend and now you can have
the rifle. Actually I'm six foot tall and I've got
really long arms. Well that allows me to extend that
butt stock and make it work. My grandson shows up,
we're gonna junst the butt stock the right length for him.
So even if you show up and you only have
one gun and you want to bring your grandson or
your granddaughter to shoot, you both can shoot the same
gun and it's just a matter of adjusting the butt stock.
(46:13):
So the ar is just incredible in this ARC competition.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Chad Barber, who who was the ro that was running
you all through that. He Uh, he's been really the
guy pushing this from behind the scenes at NRA. I've
known him for years, so he's got a military background,
he's got a training background, he's got a shooting background,
so it's perfect for what he's doing at NRA.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Yeah, it's it's really cool, all right, Kyle.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
As we as we kind of wrap up, and you know,
before we wrap up, I should say this if somebody
is interested to find out more about this kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
It's n RA rc ARC.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
As you said, America's Rifle Challenge, So just go go
look it up online. You'll find it and you'll find
some some matches near you. As we wrap this up, Kyle,
I would love We're always hard being on the need
for people to do some training, take a training class.
I know, we get into the fun of buying guns
and all this stuff. But you know, a real life
(47:12):
training class, what's the value. I mean, if you had
a couple minutes and someone says, I've never I mean,
I've got guns, i shoot guns, but I've never done
a class. I mean, if you had a couple of
minutes to convince somebody, what would you say.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
So what I tell them is if you come to
one of our classes and I don't. I don't do
any entry level classes, but I recommend that people start small.
You know, if you don't take a concealed carry class,
that's fine, that's a good place to start. But that's
just the tip of the iceberg. Take take a class,
and it doesn't have to be a competition class, but
just any shooting class that you can get into, you know,
(47:46):
do a search and see if the instructor is actually
a good a good person that you should learn from.
And then you know, once you get to a certain level,
maybe you're going to want to go to the next level,
which you know, when we shoot these when we shoot competitions,
I shoot strong in support side. I don't even think
about shooting from my left side because I do it
so often that it's not even a big deal. That's
(48:07):
something we teach in our classes, we teach how to
draw the pistol with one hand, strong hand or support
hand getting over there to get the pistol out, how
to clear malfunctions and do reloads with only your support hand.
So there's a lot of things that you may not
have even thought about that when you go to an instructor,
they're going to show you things that you would have
never ever thought about unless that person brought that up.
(48:30):
And then the other thing is, you know, if you're
going to go take a class where you're going to
stand at seven yards or five yards and just do updrills,
that might be fun for the first ten minutes, but
then it's going to get kind of boring. Try to
take a class that takes you out of your comfort
zone where you're going to shoot multiple positions, where you're
going to shoot from barricades, where you're going to shoot
(48:50):
from maybe rollover prone underneath of a vehicle or underneath
of a barricade, shooting on the move, doing those reloads
under duress. And then the other thing is if you
come to one of my classes, you're going to do
all of this under a time limit, and everybody's really,
really good and very confident until I say, okay, now
(49:12):
it's a competition. I bring out the timer and I
start timing it. If you're not pushing yourself with trying
to shoot more accurately on your target, which is the
most important thing, but then also putting yourself under a
time limit, and then you're shooting in front of your
buddies and you're going to get embarrassed if you shoot poorly.
So this is going to make you want to get
out and practice more. There's just so many things that
(49:34):
competition will will help you with it. You'll be able
to try other people's equipment, You'll be able to see
how that instructor teaches, and maybe you take a class
from me and you're like, I don't really care for
this guy. Okay, well then go take a class from
another instructor or you know whatever.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
It might be.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
One of the problems we have is that we have
a lot of repeat offenders. I've got guys that have
taken thirty classes from me. Yeah thirty, not at three,
but thirty. So now when we open a class at
SEG I do a lot of classes for SIG Academy.
When they open a class for people to sign up
they fill up literally in like ten minutes.
Speaker 4 (50:13):
The class is full.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
So if you want to get into one of my classes,
you're gonna have to go through a kind of a
stare step process to get to the level of where
I'm going to be teaching at. But you know, come
to SIG or come to any of the classes I'm
teaching around the country. But I'm just one of many
instructors that can can really take you to that next
level and build that confidence.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
It's great, man, Kyle, Thanks for being on, Thanks for talking,
and good to see you.
Speaker 4 (50:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
You know, it's funny kJ come out and shot at
one of the things we did with Loopold and that
joker's hooked.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Now. I just noticed.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
I'm pretty sure next weekend he's shooting with me in Alabama.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah, he told me, he said, tell, Kyle said, high,
I'll see him at the next match.
Speaker 4 (50:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
Well, you know, you create a monster when you go
out there one you meet new people. I'm going to
tell you one more quick story, real quick. In January,
I wanted to shoot a match in New Mexico before
I went to the shot show. So my wife and
I flew into Colorado and drove to ratone to shoot
at the Whittington NRA Winnington Center, and I went online
(51:17):
and I just put my name in a squad. I
didn't know anybody like I just put my name down.
I'm in a squad. A couple days before the match,
I looked at the names in the squad. I did
not know one single person in that squad. I showed up.
At the end of two days, I've got ten new friends.
And the cool thing about that is, not only are
(51:38):
they friends that I made at that match. One of
these guys, Pete, I've seen him at I think three
other NORL Hunter matches since then, so now he's a
friendly face that when I walk by him, we're friends.
He's a guy from Louisiana.
Speaker 4 (51:53):
Great dude.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
I get to see him at every match that we
shoot together. The other thing is some of these guys
they've reached out to me, like, hey, I went on
your website, I bought a couple of your books. You know,
it's just you're meeting people that you can stay in
contact with, that are like minded and also want to learn.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
So yeah, get out and compete.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
ARC is the to me, that's the best entry level
shooting competition that you can get into and it's super
easy to sign up.
Speaker 4 (52:22):
Just go do it.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah, you'll have a blast. You'll have a blast, everybody.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
Kyle, thanks again man, it's been fun.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
Everybody.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Thanks for listening and thanks for watching. We'll see you
next time on gun Dog Nation.
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