May 24, 2026 • 44 mins
In This Hour:
-- Kostas Moros, of the Second Amendment Foundation, announces the latest win for gun rights and concealed carry in, of all places, New York.
-- Whether a bear gun or a self defense gun, there's a point where your handgun is too powerful for you to control the recoil.
-- His gun malfunctions with a 15-round magazine. There's a simple solution.
Gun Talk 05.24.26 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Kostas Moros, of the Second Amendment Foundation, announces the latest win for gun rights and concealed carry in, of all places, New York.
-- Whether a bear gun or a self defense gun, there's a point where your handgun is too powerful for you to control the recoil.
-- His gun malfunctions with a 15-round magazine. There's a simple solution.
Gun Talk 05.24.26 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
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(00:24):
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Speaker 3 (00:45):
Welcome back to gun Talk. I'm Tom Gresham. Of course
you can give me a call at anytime at eight
sixty six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun is easier
if you will. Of course, over're on X I am
at gun Talk, and you can take a look at
our videos on Facebook and YouTube. Really anywhere you get
your media, just look for gun talk or gun talk media.
We got a lot of things going on actually got
(01:06):
a brand new article that just came out about Ai
and can Ai change his mind about guns? It is
a fascinating, fascinating article because one of our guys actually
got Ai to go take a look at it and say, hey,
I was wrong about guns. You're right. You got to
go read this thing. It's really interesting. Well, on the
subject of getting things right, we're actually winning a lot
(01:28):
in the court. Now, there's some frustration out there, as
there always is, and joining me to talk about what's
going on and explain. One of the more recent wins
is Coastus Morris from the Second Amendment Foundation coasts I
want to talk about what just happened out of New
York with the Vampire Rule.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yeah, Tom, always great to be on.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
So, yes, yesterday we got a ruling in one of
saff's cases, Christian v.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
James, and it was a win and a loss.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
On the positive side, we have, as they say, driven
a stake through the heart of the so called Vampire rule.
The Second Circuit, which is not favorable to guns, agreed
with us that the Vampire rule is unconstitutional.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
So people know what we're talking about here.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Oh okay, I'm sorry, Yes, I forget that not everyone
is a nerd about this like that.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
So the vampire rule.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
We call it that because after Bruin happened in states
like New York, California, New Jersey had to issue carry
permits for the first time to everyone, not just to
celebrities and famous people. How they responded to undermine it
was they passed a bunch of location restrictions on where
you could carry. And one of those, the most egregious
restriction that they passed, was a rule that says you
can't go you can't carry on private property held open
(02:39):
to the public.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
So that's every private business.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
Grocery stores, you know, banks, movie theaters, et cetera. If
they you can't carry there unless they post a sign
or otherwise give you permission saying carry is okay. So
we nicknamed that the vampire rule because if you if
anyone's read Dracula or seen the movie Sinners, in mythology,
vampires can enter someone's home unless they're invited in affirmatively,
(03:04):
you know, So they're treating people who carry like vampires.
So and the Second Circuit agreed with us that that
is unconstitutional. And that's a big deal, of course, because
the Second Circuit is usually not favorable. So now the
only court in the country that has upheld the vampire
rule is the.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Ninth Circuit in Wolford.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
And of course the Supreme Court is about to decide
that case and likely is going to reverse the Ninth Circuit.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
All right, So, speaking of what's going on with the court,
case is and I would call it the new Department
of Justice because in terms of Second Amendment, it's a
totally new place over there. And they're suing Colorado, and
they're suing DC and basically challenging gun bands.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Yeah, yeah, I mean this is their fifth or sixth
loss that I've lost count. You know, they sued LA
over the long wait times, just like we did in
our lawsuit. They sued the Virgin Islands over their crazy rules,
and now of course they've sued and Colorado and Denver
over assault weapons, band magazine bans. And most interestingly, they
just added to their DC suit they amended to sue
(04:08):
them for banning suppressors.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
And remember DC, like.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
California and a few other states, totally banned suppressors. It
doesn't matter if you're willing to register them under the NFA,
you can't do that. I'm not allowed to have a
suppressor in SBR at all, even with registration, even if
I paid the old tax. So it's great to see
dog at least fight that more egregious violation, even as
we're frustrated with them, of course for defending the NFA.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
And you were explaining to me that DOJ they do
have some restrictions. They can't They have to support what
is current law is passed by Congress, so they can't say, well,
we're going to go after the NFA. They're required to
support that. But when a state or city does a
gun ban, they can go after that.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yes, yes, So the DOJ in rare instances, the DOJ
will refuse to enforce federal law. But that's very rare
because under the Constant, the President has the duty to
see to it that the laws are faithfully executed. So
that generally means for the most part, that DJ, as
long as there's a serious argument they can make to
defend a law, they will generally always defend it, even
(05:13):
if they don't like this. You saw this even under Biden.
Biden hated the PLCAA and yet Merrett Garland defended it
in court. You know that, And that's because that's just
their job. So that's why, you know, you'll see them
defending these federal laws and we get frustrated with them.
But it's pretty normal this DOJ.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Particularly now there's current makeup with Hermie Dellon in charge
of the Civil Rights Division and Todd blanche as the
acting Attorney General of the US. This is a new
group of people and new approach to the Second Amendment,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (05:45):
Absolutely, This is the first time we've seen the federal
government take an active role in defending the Second Amendments,
and it's probably reconstruction.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
I think that's the last time I could.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Think of you know where you saw you know, you
have the Freedmen's Bureau back then making sure that newly
freed slaves wouldn't be disarmed by the Southern States. So
since then, the federal government has done other civil rights lawsuits,
but this is the first time they're finally treating the
Second Amendment as a civil right as well.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh and should we just at least mentioned historically that
was the Democrats who were disarming blacks at the time,
freed blacks.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Yeah, the Jim Crow era Democrats.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yes, correct, exactly right, all right, so as you look
at the landscape out there, take a look, if you would,
and drill down to what's going on with the Supreme Court.
We had one or two cases heard, but we've got
a whole bunch of them sitting there. They're like the
ships ready to try to get through the Strait of Hormuz.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
It's hard to speculate, and I don't want to get
anyone's hopes up after what happened with snowp last year.
But it is true that they have five cases hardware cases,
including one or two SAFF cases up there, two Saff
cases and Duncan and others, and they're all related to
either magazine bans or assault weapons bans. And it's not
clear whether they're going to do something with them or
(07:02):
whether they're going to deny them. And someone's writing a dissent.
I hope that's not the case. But they've relisted. Duncan
and Vermontes have been realisted I think fifteen or sixteen
times now. So if they get granted, they will break
the record for the most realist before grant, because that
record was fourteen with Masterpiece Cake Shop out of Colorado.
So we'll see what happens. I'm hoping they finally grant won.
(07:24):
Kavanaugh said last year when they denied Snope that they
will do one of these cases in the next year
or two. So, well, one year has passed, so we
kind of need a grant now if he's going to
keep his word. So we'll have to see what happens.
I'm hopeful they finally resolve this issue.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Let's talk for a second about one of the more
head scratching cases, and that is Duncan. And how long
this thing has lived. I mean it practically is old
enough to have a driver's license now.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Yeah, So Duncan is actually the Freedom Week ruling. Duncan
started in twenty seventeen and in twenty nineteen we got
the Freedom Week ruling. And that is actually what inspired
me to get into the field. I learned about Michelle
and Associates my old employer till last year, and I
joined them after Duncan, and then I was very excited
to get to work on Duncan. And then six years later,
I'm like, oh my god, how am I still working?
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah? I mean it's been to the Ninth Circuit, to
the Ninth Circuit and back and forth, and this is
the Dunky case. It's magazine ban right.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Yes, correct, it's California's banned on magazines over ten rounds and.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
It still has not been before the Supreme Court. It
has been requested, a cert has been requested, but the
Supreme Court keeps bouncing getting saying, well, maybe next time
we'll take a look at it. Maybe next time we'll
look at it.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Yeah, it got a GVR last time after during Bruin,
So it was pending while Bruin was decided. Then it
got granted, vacated, and remanded. They basically told the Ninth
Circuit to do it again. The Ninth Circuit responded by
sending it all the way back down to Judge Benitez,
who ruled on it again, of course, in our favor
under Bruin, and then the Ninth Circuit unsurprisingly revert him
(09:00):
in a seven to four on Bonk ruling.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
So now it's it's it's it's do or die time.
If Duncan's denied, it's over. Like we have to give
up magazines.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
You know, the Californio will start collecting or telling us
to ship them out of state.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
There's no appeal after this. The case is over if
if they don't grant it.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
So it's very important that the Supreme Court either grant
Duncan or, as I said in a meek Is brief
for SAFF, if they're not going to grant it, just
hold it forever until they decide the same issue in
another case and then remand Duncan after that.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Because there are other magazine cases coming from other states.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Oh yeah, so there's a lot of there's there's assault
weapons cases, magazine cases, and then combined cases and the
Illinois New Jersey cases the Seventh and Third Circuit that
are going they're going to rule on are combined. You know,
they deal with both issues at once. So we really
hope that Supreme Court either grants Duncan, Vermontes or just
any of these. Just grant one and decide this issue. Right,
(09:57):
I hope it's a SAFF case. I love, I love
my I love my new employer, but it doesn't matter.
Just grant one and let's finally resolve this issue.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
If the Supreme Court, for instance, then saying Duncan are
one of these, it says, okay, you cannot ban magazines
that hold more than ten rounds or fifteen rounds or whatever.
You can't ban magazines because they are arms and common use.
Would that apply to all the states and and all
of those bands.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Yes, yes, So the Supreme Court, of course, is a
national court. So they struck down a magazine ban, then
that would apply to everyone. Now we have to the
exact wording is going to matter. If Supreme Court just
says okay, ten or fifteen is too low, then I'm
sure California will pass a twenty round limit or an
eighteen round, So they have to be careful to not
(10:45):
invite new restrictions when they do this, But I'm sure
the more likely scenario. After let's hope we win and
this issue gets resolved, I'm sure the next step will
be the all past Colorado style licensing law.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Like, Okay, we can't ban these, but we can make
you get.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
A license and take a training course and pay us
a bunch of fees, and that'll be the next line
of the fight, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
And then we get another five or ten years of
litigation on that. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
I mean, look, this is what I tell people.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
I'm staff and others are happy to litigate for you
in defense of your rights, but really, litigation is the
slowest last resort option, and it's the one that you
are least in control of because you're at the mercy
of judges. If you want to be in control of
your own fate, you have to win elections. That's period,
full stop. Like that's the easiest way to stop these
laws is stop them from passing in the first place.
(11:35):
But you know, in places like California, that's a tall order.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
You know, I live here.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
It's pretty hopeless, but it is.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You know. But it also kind of brings us to
the midterms, which is essential because not only is it
about getting legislation passed, but also it's about getting the
right judges put on the bitches.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Absolutely absolutely, if if we lose the Senate, if the
Democrats take the Senate, Look, I respect I know a
lot of gun owners vote for Democrats due to other issues.
I respect that, But I'm just speaking from a Second
Amendment perspective here. And if the Democrats take the Senate,
they're going to block any good judges. God forbid, there's
a Supreme Court vacancy in that timeframe, they won't see anyone.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
So it's very important that people don't let that happen.
In my opinion and keep the majority.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
As much as the Republicans can frustrate us too, so
at least not as hostile, you know, as totally hostile
as the Democrats are.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
And I hope, by the way, I hope.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
The Democrats change and come to embrace the Second Amendment,
because that would be healthy long term if both parties
truly supported this constitutional right. But until that happens, unfortunately,
there's only one party that, even you know, tries to
defend this right.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I'm with you. I'd love to say, Look, I don't
necessarily need you to support a party because it's a party,
but the way it has come down is that, look,
if you care about the Second Amendment, if you care
about gun rights at all, there really is only one party.
As you say, as frustrating as it can be, sometimes
the Democrats. Not all Democrats opposed the Second Amendment, but
(13:01):
all Democrat party leaders do, and they drive that bus.
And so the Democrats will always, at least under the
current makeup, will always fight to restrict and take away
your Second Amendment rights.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
That's exactly right. I mean, you have this guy. Let
me give an example real quick. This Senate candidate in
Maine Graham Plattner. He has a whole bunch of other
controversies I'm not going to get into. But he has said,
and I'll say, maybe believably, that he doesn't support an
assault weapons ban, and he has some history as a
gun owner to back that up. So maybe he's not lying.
Maybe he really is against an assault weapons ban. The
(13:37):
problem is, if he gets elected, he's going to vote
to put Chuck Schumer as majority leader or whoever else,
and he's going to vote to confirm if you know,
we have a president k Newsom in twenty twenty nine,
he will vote to confirm whatever judge knew some wants.
So at the end of the day, what difference does
it make, even if he personally is against it, If
he's going to vote to empower people who are going
to strip us of our rights.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
You know already that's a problem that does.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, and for more you can go to saf dot
org for the Second Amendment Foundation Coastis. Thank you so much.
I appreciate your explanations of all this. It really helps
us understand.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
It absolutely, Tom anytime, great to be on. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
You bet all right, We'll be right back with more
gun talk.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
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Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, we oft forget the question here of how long
does ammo last? How long is the ammo good for?
I mean, we tackle that one. But during the break
here I was just explained to gem. I said, you know,
I'm not much of a drinker, but I had a
beer this week and I realized that I think this
is beer left over from the Fourth of July from
last year. So help me out here. How long is
(17:20):
beer good for? Now? It's in the refrigerator. But I
kind of got a sneak and suspicion that there's a
life limit on beer even it's in the refrigerator. I
don't know. I mean, like I said, I don't drink
a lot of beer, clearly, but yeah, I was like, okay,
it was a spring day, it was pretty we were
cooking ribs, and I'll have a beer that tastes good.
(17:41):
It's nice. I almost finished one, too. Well, there it goes.
Sometimes you can't do that. Thinking about some of the
guns we have as reading some thoughts from people about
it's kind different. Somebody said, I like the way you
put he said, it's like going land. We are just
(18:07):
the caretaker. We're gonna pass it along to somebody. And
I think that's an interesting way to think about it,
because I mean, do you ever use up a gun?
I mean, yeah, it's possible you could wear one out.
I mean would you what would you do? Would you
throw it away? No, get repaired or something or traded
(18:28):
or whatever. But when you buy a gun, you kind
of expect it to outlast you. So now look, I'm
not saying you're investing, because that's a whole different thing.
You invest to expect things to increase in value. Some
guns will, but few, Honestly not a lot of guns
(18:50):
will increase in value. If you buy high end guns,
they may the top two, three, maybe five percent the
guns could increase in value, especially if you're buying collectible stuff.
That's not my bag. I'm not into that. I do
like pretty guns. I like guns that look good, but
(19:11):
I shoot the heck out of them, you know, Oh yeah,
I made a gun less pretty last week. Generally, I
like pretty guns, I like shooting them. And you know,
I have this forty five nineteen eleven that Bill Lowbridge
at Celder and Slide built. It took him a number
of months and not surprising me. It came in more
(19:34):
expensive because I kept saying yes, yeah, sure, he said,
well what about this, Yes, yes, sure it might as well, right,
might as well. The three most expensive words we say,
that's okay, it's gorgeous. It came in pretty, and then
I put a set of gorgeous cocobola grips on Burrowwood
grips on it from Bobby Tyler and Hotter gun Works. Well,
when I got to gun site, I was shooting in
(19:55):
the Class forty five. It's hot, hands are sweaty, slick grip. Now,
this isn't gonna work. So I thought, you know, I
went to the pro shop. They had everything there. So
I went ahead and got slim grips, aluminum grips that
are really slim grip panels, and I said, you know,
if you're gonna do it, go all the way. And
I picked up a drop safety. Actually it's a little
(20:18):
bit lower safety extended safety, and it had the gun
smith install those. And while you wouldn't think it would
make much difference, it was a huge improvement for me.
I have fairly short fingers and it just made it
possible for me to get a good purchase on the
grip and to get my trigger finger in at a
(20:38):
good ninety degree angle so I could press it straight
back without pushing it to the left, shooting right handed,
and just really like the way it feels now. It
isn't as pretty. I went with pretty much mostly black
aluminum grips, but man, when I picked that gun up,
it feels great now. And the funny part is I
(20:59):
was talking last week last yeah, last week with Phils
Trader at SIG. I mentioned that to him. He says, oh, yeah,
he says, I put slim grips on all my nineteen elevens.
He says, I have huge hands, he says, but I
just like the way that the slim grips feel.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
That's interesting even when a guy with big hands likes
the slim grips. I just kind of throw that out
to say, if you've never tried, if you have nineteen elevens,
and if you are of a mind too, it's something
you could just swap out yourself. You do have to
replace the grip bushings in the frame when you go
to the slim grips, but often you can buy those
(21:36):
as a set. The screws and the grip of the bushings,
you might want to try it, And if you have
anything close to small hands, you might want to try
the drop safety and see what you think about that. Clearly,
you can put them on and try them for a
while and swap them back out if you don't like them.
That's the beauty of the whole thing. And it's like
undoing screws and putting them back in. Even Tom can
(21:59):
do that most of the time. Me because I'm not mechanical,
but I even I could do that most of the time.
So you could try it and see if you like it,
and if you don't, you can squap back. You could
do one or the other or both whatever. But I'm
just saying when I did that, that gun just became
a lot more comfortable to shoot and really enjoyed it.
(22:19):
And yeah, shooting the forty five, I was taking on
more recoil than some of the people in the class
who are shooting nines and it was noticeable, you could
tell the difference. But still had a good time. And
oh yeah, by the way, I still love that gold
bead front site. That was amazing and all types of
light conditions. It may be old school, but the reason
(22:42):
it's still around is because it works. Uh yeah, we're
still talking about guns. We're having fun. I just did
my five days at gun site, three days of backcountry
flying training, learn stuff. I just really enjoy learning. Well
(23:04):
what I think of practical things or fun things. Or
I wasn't a great student in school. It's weird. I mean,
I love studying things now, and I think it was
the case of I just didn't see the value in
it or how it was going to apply, and enough
of a rebel to where I just said, you know,
if I had to understand what it's about, I'm probably
(23:24):
not going to do it. And so yeah, no, it's
it's not true that I wasn't a good student. What's
true is that I was a terrible student. I really was. Okay,
let's go to the phones line for Jerry's with us
out of Greeley, Colorado. Jerry, thank you so much for
your patients and going through that long break.
Speaker 9 (23:42):
Well, thanks for taking my call. Tom. You really kill
took Piece fifteen that it misbehaves when I used the
twelve round magazines as opposed to the I'm sorry, the
fifteen round magazines as opposed to the twelve round magazines.
So the twelve round magazines have a flat metal base plate.
(24:05):
They work flawlessly. The fifteen rounders have sort of like
a plastic plus three extender, I guess, and they're the
best I can see. The magazine base plate acts as
the overtravel stop to prevent the magazine from going too
far in on a reload. So with a full stack
(24:29):
of cartridges, it bumps the slide up off the slide stop,
and the slide springs forward when the magazine goes home.
I called Celtech. They told me they'd be happy to
send new magazines, but it wouldn't help because they're all
the same. So the only thing I can think of
is maybe putting a little dabblebee POxy on top of
(24:50):
the base plate rim so that it stops that overtravel.
But I just thought i'd see if you could could
think of any other factors that maybe I'm failing to consider.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
So the twelve rounders work, and the fifteen rounders, the
problem is when you put them in. If you smack
them in, it closed. The slide closes with that, Am
I getting that right?
Speaker 9 (25:12):
Exactly? That's right?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Okay? Does it do that? If you have downloaded the
fifteen round mag No, so only when it's got the
full fifteen rounds.
Speaker 9 (25:26):
Does it do it exactly? Yes, that's right.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
So what you have is fourteen round magazines.
Speaker 9 (25:34):
Yeah, you're right, Yep.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I don't want to It's like, I hate to cheat
you out of a round, but I think we just
figured out the workaround.
Speaker 9 (25:45):
Yeah, I suppose I'd be smarter than play an amateur gunsmith.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
I kind of hate the idea of messing with if
it's working fine at fourteen, you're going. You know, there's
a lot of guns out there where I would be
fine having fourteen plus one and let it go with
that and trying to mess with everything to get it
to work for the one extra round. I don't know,
it's probably where I would end up. But then again,
(26:10):
people would say, well, you're just lazy. You don't want
to work the problem.
Speaker 9 (26:13):
No I don't.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I want to just work. I just want it to
work and not have the fool with it. So that's
just the way I roll on the thing.
Speaker 9 (26:20):
That sounds like good advice to me. Dom, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Well, all right, good luck with that. I hope that
works for you. Appreciate the call, sir, Oh, let's see
let's go grab. Where are we going here? Oh, we're
gonna get David on line three because we always like
to talk about bear guns. All I got to do
is say bear guns and phonees light up.
Speaker 10 (26:38):
Hey David, how are you doing, sir?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Hey? I am good. You know what. I am free
of bears at the moment, So I'm good.
Speaker 9 (26:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (26:48):
Well, I live in an area where they're pretty prevalent,
you know, spring, summer, fall, and I usually have a
nine millimeter, but they're getting a girl us. And I
was looking at the Smith and Wesson five hundred and
kind of comparing it to the three fifty seven's and
(27:08):
the forty four's that are out there, and I just
wanted your opinion. And I know they're big bears and
they get pretty aggressive, and I'm just looking at a revolver.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, the issue I have And just so you know,
I have five hundred, and I have forty four's and
forty fives and four to fifty four cassoles and nines
and I got them all. I mean, I got everything.
My issue with the five hundred is I think it
is a great hunting revolver. The problem I for me,
(27:46):
I'm not going to put it on you. The problem
for me is that I cannot make fast follow up shots.
The recoil is just too much. That thing is going
to rock back with the musclem going almost word and
there's no way I'm going to make quick follow up shots.
And I personally would rather have probably like a ported
(28:13):
forty four magnum that would keep the muzzle down a
little bit, and that way I could practice with forty
four special loads and do a lot of practice with it,
and then if you actually needed it on bears, with
the forty four magnum full house loads, you'll never feel
the recoil, but the compensation, a little muscle break or
(28:36):
something on there would help hold the muscle down. But
it would work just fine. And you understand, David, the
whole idea is everything we talk about is a compromise.
Even a five hundred is a compromise because you should
be carrying a rifle. But we're not going to carry
a rifle. It's just not what we're going to do.
And so it's somewhere between the nine and a three seven,
(28:58):
five h and h rifle. We've got to find something.
And I am so inconsistent with this. I am ashamed
to even talk about it, because sometimes I'll carry a
three fifty seven, sometimes a forty four Special, sometimes a
forty four magnum. And you know what it ends up
coming down to for me is like which gun do
I want to carry today? More than which one's going
(29:20):
to be effective.
Speaker 9 (29:22):
Right now?
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (29:27):
Did it topped me off the five hundred? So I
I just stout some forty four mags and go from there.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Well, and the beauty of the forty four mag is, Look,
I hate shooting forty four magnums, and I will just
I'll turn in my man card right here and say,
just they kick a lot and hurt, and they're not
much fun at all. And by the time I've gone
through a full cylinder a forty four magnum, I'm done.
(30:00):
That's all I want. But you take that same gun
and you shoot forty four Specials in it, and you
can shoot that for a morning. It's fun. Little light
loads that don't do it. And if you want to
go even further, you can shoot forty four Russian in
the same revolver, same thing, for even lower power. And
the forty four Russian AMMO is usually spectacularly accurate. So
(30:26):
now you've got your big revolver that you carry and
you can shoot these fun little load and go out
and do a lot of shooting a lot of practice
and get real comfortable with the gun. That's what makes
the forty four magnum so versatile for me. It makes
it doable. You know, you carry the full house loads
when you're out with bear, But I mean you're going
(30:47):
to want to go shoot half a dozen of the
full house loads through the gun at some point. But
it doesn't take long for that to be enough.
Speaker 10 (30:57):
Yeah, no, no, I get it. Years ago when we
first moved up here, I had a four point fifty
eight and holy cow, I shot that a couple of times.
And if I had to travel for work, I told
my wife, I said, don't even go out the door.
Just shoot through the door.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Yeah, shoot through all the doors. Yeah. I mean, some
of these guns are really powerful, and they need to
be depending on which you're hunting. But holy cow, it
doesn't take long before you get at the point where
you're thinking, I don't want to do a lot of this.
I got to shoot up was it five or five?
(31:34):
Jeffrey good gravy. It's like, okay, yeah, thank you, very much.
Here you could have the other rounds back. I got
one off that was great. So I don't know. Maybe
I'm just at the point where I don't have anything
to prove anymore. So, but look, I wish you luck.
I if you get a chance, if you've got some
buddies who have a forty four magnum, try to go
(31:55):
shoot one with a forty four special in it and
see what you think. I think you'll like it.
Speaker 10 (32:00):
Thank you for your time, Tom, love your show.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
You bet good luck with that. Appreciate that. Hey, let's
grab Jim online four out of Colorado. Hey, Jim, you
made it onto gun Talk. What's going on? Hello?
Speaker 11 (32:14):
Hey, hey, I just wanted to announce that the Ben
Lowman Gun Club in Rama, Colorado has openings for new
members and you can apply online at www. B as
in Ben hell as in Lowmand. She isn't gun, she
(32:39):
is in club dot Org.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Okay, and I'm looking up where Rama, Colorado is.
Speaker 11 (32:48):
It's east of Colorado Springs about forty forty five miles.
It's south of Denver about forty five miles.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Gotcha, Yeah, I'll be it there now. So tell me
about your range.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
We have.
Speaker 11 (33:06):
Six hundred yard high power range. We have four hundred
yard high power range and the six hundred has burns
at one through six its club steel at four, five
and six. We have small Boer twenty two range where
(33:26):
nurl and venturesque silhouette shooting occurs. We have shotguns, keat
and trap. We have ten competition burms where IDPA and
two gun tactical rifle three gun competitions are calendar on
(33:51):
the website explains all of our sanctioned shoots.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Okay, and you're taking members. Let me give out that website.
It's b l g C, Bravo, Limo Golf Charlie dot org,
b l GC dot org.
Speaker 11 (34:07):
Right, yep, that's correct.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Good.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Well, look, thanks for giving us the heads up and
letting us know because it sounds like a real nice
range and if people are in the area, they ought
to jump on that. Thank you. Thanks for the call.
I appreciate that. Jim, you take care. I like that
long rain shooting out there in Colorader.
Speaker 12 (34:27):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Let's see. Uh, let's go grab Maurice and Lake Charles.
I love that linke on Lane one. Hey, Maurice, thank
you for holding on what's going on in Lake Charles.
Speaker 12 (34:35):
I want to talk about it. I just want to
tell you the only bears we got down here, he bears.
You just throw a piece of boot in, they'll let
you alone.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah, they play they play football too.
Speaker 12 (34:46):
They're good at that.
Speaker 11 (34:47):
That's it.
Speaker 12 (34:48):
They listen. The first thing was they just remind people
who are doing any kind of canting. And I've been
casting for years go A little while back, I picked
up a piece of lead that had been down signs
for a long time, but it been stored inside for
a couple of years. And when I dropped it into
the pot, it exploded. It had some moil. Oh, I
(35:10):
mean it burned a poopoo out of me, fortunately just
in a few places. But you know, hot leads hot, you.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Know, yeah, molten lead is hot. And then you drop
that in it with some water, all of a sudden,
the water just instantly vaporizes and blows up and it sprays.
Speaker 12 (35:29):
Out of a list of explosion. And I've been I've
been casting leads since the seventies. I've never had it happen.
But but the other thing I want to tell you.
A couple of weeks ago, you had talked about how
when business wasn't doing something that you wanted to do,
you know, get on the phone, call your friends, call it. Well.
(35:50):
A number of years ago, I had an occasion to
get into a row with a pizza place. They mistreated
me pretty badly. Now I got to tell you, I
had haired down on my shoulders. I was a musician,
but I was a regular customer, you know, and the
guy called cops home and threw me out. So I
called the district manager and he passed it on up
(36:11):
to the CEO. The CEO called me and said, look,
he said this is important to us because for every
one complaint on a local level, we multiplied times one hundred.
And I was talking to another CEO a few years
later he said, huh, he said, we multiply it by
a thousand. So one letter. Don't think that your one
(36:32):
letters aren't going to do anything, because if it gets
in the right hands, they're going to multiply it. They're
not going to say this is just an isolated incident.
They're going to figure it's whatever you're complaining about's happening
more and more.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
And Maurice to your point with your example, the local
manager may blow it off, but usually the higher up
you go, the more they pay attention to that. That's
really interesting.
Speaker 12 (36:57):
That is and I mean, this is this is what
I got from CEOs. This wasn't just something that.
Speaker 9 (37:03):
Was pulled out there.
Speaker 12 (37:04):
These are the people that managed the pizzas company was
a nation, nationwide chain, you know, and so I was
really surprised. I mean, I got results, and it's not
going to happen every time, but I guarantee you you
got a better chance of people paying attention. So if
a company is that doing something that you're comfortable with,
let them know.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
There you go, there you go. Well, thank you, sir.
I appreciate that call. I wanted that reminds me. I
want to share a story that came out of Florida.
A couple of weeks ago at Hoa Homeowners Association passed
a new rule, no guns in public areas on the
HOA property. Well, that went over like a lead balloon,
(37:46):
as you might imagine in Florida, where you got constitutional carry.
They said, yeah, but it's Hoa, we can do what
we want. Well, you can tell you you can't. And
the Florida Attorney General got involved in it because there
was a uproar online and I was talking about it
a good bit online. The Florida Attorney General came in
and says, yeah, no, you can't do that. We have
(38:08):
pre insion laws here even know, and they have already
changed their mind and pulled it back. So just case
and point, it's like, you do have the ability, especially
if you can put a few people together, you can
make a change in some of these things. Let's see, Jim,
we've got time to get Fred in here. Nope, we don't. Okay, Fred,
(38:30):
don't go anywhere. I'm gonna have to hit the brake here,
but I want to put you back in on the
backside here. I don't want to short change it because
you've only got a minute or so left here. So
all right, let me go out that website again. By
the way, if you're in Colorado, the Ben Loman Gun
Club which is BLGC for Ben Lomangun Club dot org.
We appreciated the call. Some of these clubs, there's a
(38:51):
long waiting list. It's hard to get in on some
of these shooting ranges, so it's nice when you got
it opening to jump right in there. I belong to
two different gun ranges, and I make sure that I
renew every year just so I can get in on them,
one that's local to me and one that's not. But
the local one gets covered up with six to twelve
feet of snow in the winter, so we can't shoot there.
(39:12):
So I got to have a place in lower elevations,
so we go down there and shoot in the winter.
It's a long drive, but it's either that or you
don't shoot at all. So there you go. It's just
one of the beauties or hazards of living where we do.
But we do love it all right. Eight six six
Talk Gun or Tom Talkgun. I'm Tom Greshmer. Check it
out gun talk dot com. We'll be right back. I
(39:42):
was thinking about how to explain why do I keep
going back and taking the same class again at gun
Sight and look, I have been to the cig Academy
and the Smith and Wesson Academy and tac Pro in Texas,
and Firearms Academy of Seattle and Academy and Gunside and
(40:02):
thunder Ranch, and it basically end up going back and
taking essentially the same class everywhere I go because you
need to tune up because I get rusty. I mean,
I found that I was two days into the class
this time before I was starting to really get my
skills back. I haven't practiced enough that. Again, do any
(40:24):
of us really practice enough? I mean, if you're a
competitive shooter, you're out there shooting five hundred rounds a week,
that's good. You're probably tuned up. I don't shoot that much.
I'm gonna try to. I just bought a whole bunch more, ammo.
I'm gona try to get out shoot a good bit
more and work on specific things. But in terms of
what do you get out of something like that, I
(40:46):
think you definitely get skills, physical skills, learn to shoot
and learn to draw. You get mental skills, so I
think psychological skills of getting your brain tuned up. Of Okay,
I can do this, I must do this, I will
do this. This is how I will respond. You're putting
(41:10):
all that stuff in your head. And I do understand
that there's a real commitment of time and money. There is,
and I don't want to make light of that. And
we all are pressed for money, and nobody has an
(41:31):
unlimited budget as far as I know, And I would
just say, try to find some way to get training.
If you can go to top school grade, if you
can't find somebody locally, it's better than nothing. It is
going to be better than nothing. And yeah, they're good
YouTube places. You can go to our place, rains Ready
(41:52):
Studios down Louisiana. We have really good training and it's
not nearly as expensive as some of the big schools,
so it's top dots. It's very good. So you can
check out rains Ready Studios dot com look for the
schedule there. We're always doing fun stuff. Sign up for
the newsletter because a lot of us we'll have a
company that comes down and says, hey, we want to
introduce a new product, and we'd like to have some
(42:13):
of your people come in and we open those up
for people to come in and shoot the brand new product.
And those things sell out within two days, so if
you wait for it to show up on the website,
it probably won't. You got to be on the newsletter list,
so there you go. I like going to this because
it reinforces to me I'm carrying every day I'm looking,
(42:36):
and I'm going to try to avoid a confrontation if
at all possible. You also learn different ways of doing
different things, and that's like with the flying stuff I
was just doing and flying into weird little places in
the middle of nowhere, and we're flying one hundred and
fifty feet off of the ground as we make our approach. Yeah,
one hundred and fifty feet doing really low approaches into
places and landing in places that people would say, you
(42:58):
can't land an airplane there. Yeah, you can if you
have the right technique. Yeah, you can shoot well. If
you have the right technique, you can shoot better than
you shoot now, a lot better. You just you need
a good set of eyes and a trainer who could
explain it to you. So whether you go, it doesn't
matter where you go. Go somewhere and you'll hear Ryan
say the same thing. Congratulations, by the way to Ryan
(43:21):
and the crew of hitting a million followers on Facebook.
The Range Ready crew, the gun Talk Headquarters crew is amazing.
It's a small number of people and they outperform teams
out there that have several times more people. It's really worthwhile.
And if you get down to Range Ready you'll see
where I'm talking about. Everybody that goes says, that's the
most amazing group of people I've ever been with. Yeah,
(43:43):
they are. Hey, check out the after show. We're going
to move Fred over there. Just because we thought this
stuff was that interesting. So that'll be available on our
podcast in just a few hours after the show. In
the meantime, go out and have yourself a good weekend, Barb.
If you be with your friends, remember why we are
and bring this weekend you. Be careful out there. We'll
see you next week right here on gun Talk.
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Speaker 3 (00:45):
Welcome back to gun Talk. I'm Tom Gresham. Of course
you can give me a call at anytime at eight
sixty six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun is easier
if you will. Of course, over're on X I am
at gun Talk, and you can take a look at
our videos on Facebook and YouTube. Really anywhere you get
your media, just look for gun talk or gun talk media.
We got a lot of things going on actually got
(01:06):
a brand new article that just came out about Ai
and can Ai change his mind about guns? It is
a fascinating, fascinating article because one of our guys actually
got Ai to go take a look at it and say, hey,
I was wrong about guns. You're right. You got to
go read this thing. It's really interesting. Well, on the
subject of getting things right, we're actually winning a lot
(01:28):
in the court. Now, there's some frustration out there, as
there always is, and joining me to talk about what's
going on and explain. One of the more recent wins
is Coastus Morris from the Second Amendment Foundation coasts I
want to talk about what just happened out of New
York with the Vampire Rule.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yeah, Tom, always great to be on.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
So, yes, yesterday we got a ruling in one of
saff's cases, Christian v.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
James, and it was a win and a loss.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
On the positive side, we have, as they say, driven
a stake through the heart of the so called Vampire rule.
The Second Circuit, which is not favorable to guns, agreed
with us that the Vampire rule is unconstitutional.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
So people know what we're talking about here.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Oh okay, I'm sorry, Yes, I forget that not everyone
is a nerd about this like that.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
So the vampire rule.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
We call it that because after Bruin happened in states
like New York, California, New Jersey had to issue carry
permits for the first time to everyone, not just to
celebrities and famous people. How they responded to undermine it
was they passed a bunch of location restrictions on where
you could carry. And one of those, the most egregious
restriction that they passed, was a rule that says you
can't go you can't carry on private property held open
(02:39):
to the public.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
So that's every private business.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
Grocery stores, you know, banks, movie theaters, et cetera. If
they you can't carry there unless they post a sign
or otherwise give you permission saying carry is okay. So
we nicknamed that the vampire rule because if you if
anyone's read Dracula or seen the movie Sinners, in mythology,
vampires can enter someone's home unless they're invited in affirmatively,
(03:04):
you know, So they're treating people who carry like vampires.
So and the Second Circuit agreed with us that that
is unconstitutional. And that's a big deal, of course, because
the Second Circuit is usually not favorable. So now the
only court in the country that has upheld the vampire
rule is the.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Ninth Circuit in Wolford.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
And of course the Supreme Court is about to decide
that case and likely is going to reverse the Ninth Circuit.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
All right, So, speaking of what's going on with the court,
case is and I would call it the new Department
of Justice because in terms of Second Amendment, it's a
totally new place over there. And they're suing Colorado, and
they're suing DC and basically challenging gun bands.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Yeah, yeah, I mean this is their fifth or sixth
loss that I've lost count. You know, they sued LA
over the long wait times, just like we did in
our lawsuit. They sued the Virgin Islands over their crazy rules,
and now of course they've sued and Colorado and Denver
over assault weapons, band magazine bans. And most interestingly, they
just added to their DC suit they amended to sue
(04:08):
them for banning suppressors.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
And remember DC, like.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
California and a few other states, totally banned suppressors. It
doesn't matter if you're willing to register them under the NFA,
you can't do that. I'm not allowed to have a
suppressor in SBR at all, even with registration, even if
I paid the old tax. So it's great to see
dog at least fight that more egregious violation, even as
we're frustrated with them, of course for defending the NFA.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
And you were explaining to me that DOJ they do
have some restrictions. They can't They have to support what
is current law is passed by Congress, so they can't say, well,
we're going to go after the NFA. They're required to
support that. But when a state or city does a
gun ban, they can go after that.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yes, yes, So the DOJ in rare instances, the DOJ
will refuse to enforce federal law. But that's very rare
because under the Constant, the President has the duty to
see to it that the laws are faithfully executed. So
that generally means for the most part, that DJ, as
long as there's a serious argument they can make to
defend a law, they will generally always defend it, even
(05:13):
if they don't like this. You saw this even under Biden.
Biden hated the PLCAA and yet Merrett Garland defended it
in court. You know that, And that's because that's just
their job. So that's why, you know, you'll see them
defending these federal laws and we get frustrated with them.
But it's pretty normal this DOJ.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Particularly now there's current makeup with Hermie Dellon in charge
of the Civil Rights Division and Todd blanche as the
acting Attorney General of the US. This is a new
group of people and new approach to the Second Amendment,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (05:45):
Absolutely, This is the first time we've seen the federal
government take an active role in defending the Second Amendments,
and it's probably reconstruction.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
I think that's the last time I could.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Think of you know where you saw you know, you
have the Freedmen's Bureau back then making sure that newly
freed slaves wouldn't be disarmed by the Southern States. So
since then, the federal government has done other civil rights lawsuits,
but this is the first time they're finally treating the
Second Amendment as a civil right as well.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh and should we just at least mentioned historically that
was the Democrats who were disarming blacks at the time,
freed blacks.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Yeah, the Jim Crow era Democrats.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yes, correct, exactly right, all right, so as you look
at the landscape out there, take a look, if you would,
and drill down to what's going on with the Supreme Court.
We had one or two cases heard, but we've got
a whole bunch of them sitting there. They're like the
ships ready to try to get through the Strait of Hormuz.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
It's hard to speculate, and I don't want to get
anyone's hopes up after what happened with snowp last year.
But it is true that they have five cases hardware cases,
including one or two SAFF cases up there, two Saff
cases and Duncan and others, and they're all related to
either magazine bans or assault weapons bans. And it's not
clear whether they're going to do something with them or
(07:02):
whether they're going to deny them. And someone's writing a dissent.
I hope that's not the case. But they've relisted. Duncan
and Vermontes have been realisted I think fifteen or sixteen
times now. So if they get granted, they will break
the record for the most realist before grant, because that
record was fourteen with Masterpiece Cake Shop out of Colorado.
So we'll see what happens. I'm hoping they finally grant won.
(07:24):
Kavanaugh said last year when they denied Snope that they
will do one of these cases in the next year
or two. So, well, one year has passed, so we
kind of need a grant now if he's going to
keep his word. So we'll have to see what happens.
I'm hopeful they finally resolve this issue.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Let's talk for a second about one of the more
head scratching cases, and that is Duncan. And how long
this thing has lived. I mean it practically is old
enough to have a driver's license now.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Yeah, So Duncan is actually the Freedom Week ruling. Duncan
started in twenty seventeen and in twenty nineteen we got
the Freedom Week ruling. And that is actually what inspired
me to get into the field. I learned about Michelle
and Associates my old employer till last year, and I
joined them after Duncan, and then I was very excited
to get to work on Duncan. And then six years later,
I'm like, oh my god, how am I still working?
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah? I mean it's been to the Ninth Circuit, to
the Ninth Circuit and back and forth, and this is
the Dunky case. It's magazine ban right.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Yes, correct, it's California's banned on magazines over ten rounds and.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
It still has not been before the Supreme Court. It
has been requested, a cert has been requested, but the
Supreme Court keeps bouncing getting saying, well, maybe next time
we'll take a look at it. Maybe next time we'll
look at it.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Yeah, it got a GVR last time after during Bruin,
So it was pending while Bruin was decided. Then it
got granted, vacated, and remanded. They basically told the Ninth
Circuit to do it again. The Ninth Circuit responded by
sending it all the way back down to Judge Benitez,
who ruled on it again, of course, in our favor
under Bruin, and then the Ninth Circuit unsurprisingly revert him
(09:00):
in a seven to four on Bonk ruling.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
So now it's it's it's it's do or die time.
If Duncan's denied, it's over. Like we have to give
up magazines.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
You know, the Californio will start collecting or telling us
to ship them out of state.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
There's no appeal after this. The case is over if
if they don't grant it.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
So it's very important that the Supreme Court either grant
Duncan or, as I said in a meek Is brief
for SAFF, if they're not going to grant it, just
hold it forever until they decide the same issue in
another case and then remand Duncan after that.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Because there are other magazine cases coming from other states.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Oh yeah, so there's a lot of there's there's assault
weapons cases, magazine cases, and then combined cases and the
Illinois New Jersey cases the Seventh and Third Circuit that
are going they're going to rule on are combined. You know,
they deal with both issues at once. So we really
hope that Supreme Court either grants Duncan, Vermontes or just
any of these. Just grant one and decide this issue. Right,
(09:57):
I hope it's a SAFF case. I love, I love
my I love my new employer, but it doesn't matter.
Just grant one and let's finally resolve this issue.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
If the Supreme Court, for instance, then saying Duncan are
one of these, it says, okay, you cannot ban magazines
that hold more than ten rounds or fifteen rounds or whatever.
You can't ban magazines because they are arms and common use.
Would that apply to all the states and and all
of those bands.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Yes, yes, So the Supreme Court, of course, is a
national court. So they struck down a magazine ban, then
that would apply to everyone. Now we have to the
exact wording is going to matter. If Supreme Court just
says okay, ten or fifteen is too low, then I'm
sure California will pass a twenty round limit or an
eighteen round, So they have to be careful to not
(10:45):
invite new restrictions when they do this, But I'm sure
the more likely scenario. After let's hope we win and
this issue gets resolved, I'm sure the next step will
be the all past Colorado style licensing law.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Like, Okay, we can't ban these, but we can make
you get.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
A license and take a training course and pay us
a bunch of fees, and that'll be the next line
of the fight, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
And then we get another five or ten years of
litigation on that. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
I mean, look, this is what I tell people.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
I'm staff and others are happy to litigate for you
in defense of your rights, but really, litigation is the
slowest last resort option, and it's the one that you
are least in control of because you're at the mercy
of judges. If you want to be in control of
your own fate, you have to win elections. That's period,
full stop. Like that's the easiest way to stop these
laws is stop them from passing in the first place.
(11:35):
But you know, in places like California, that's a tall order.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
You know, I live here.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
It's pretty hopeless, but it is.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You know. But it also kind of brings us to
the midterms, which is essential because not only is it
about getting legislation passed, but also it's about getting the
right judges put on the bitches.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Absolutely absolutely, if if we lose the Senate, if the
Democrats take the Senate, Look, I respect I know a
lot of gun owners vote for Democrats due to other issues.
I respect that, But I'm just speaking from a Second
Amendment perspective here. And if the Democrats take the Senate,
they're going to block any good judges. God forbid, there's
a Supreme Court vacancy in that timeframe, they won't see anyone.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
So it's very important that people don't let that happen.
In my opinion and keep the majority.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
As much as the Republicans can frustrate us too, so
at least not as hostile, you know, as totally hostile
as the Democrats are.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
And I hope, by the way, I hope.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
The Democrats change and come to embrace the Second Amendment,
because that would be healthy long term if both parties
truly supported this constitutional right. But until that happens, unfortunately,
there's only one party that, even you know, tries to
defend this right.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I'm with you. I'd love to say, Look, I don't
necessarily need you to support a party because it's a party,
but the way it has come down is that, look,
if you care about the Second Amendment, if you care
about gun rights at all, there really is only one party.
As you say, as frustrating as it can be, sometimes
the Democrats. Not all Democrats opposed the Second Amendment, but
(13:01):
all Democrat party leaders do, and they drive that bus.
And so the Democrats will always, at least under the
current makeup, will always fight to restrict and take away
your Second Amendment rights.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
That's exactly right. I mean, you have this guy. Let
me give an example real quick. This Senate candidate in
Maine Graham Plattner. He has a whole bunch of other
controversies I'm not going to get into. But he has said,
and I'll say, maybe believably, that he doesn't support an
assault weapons ban, and he has some history as a
gun owner to back that up. So maybe he's not lying.
Maybe he really is against an assault weapons ban. The
(13:37):
problem is, if he gets elected, he's going to vote
to put Chuck Schumer as majority leader or whoever else,
and he's going to vote to confirm if you know,
we have a president k Newsom in twenty twenty nine,
he will vote to confirm whatever judge knew some wants.
So at the end of the day, what difference does
it make, even if he personally is against it, If
he's going to vote to empower people who are going
to strip us of our rights.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
You know already that's a problem that does.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, and for more you can go to saf dot
org for the Second Amendment Foundation Coastis. Thank you so much.
I appreciate your explanations of all this. It really helps
us understand.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
It absolutely, Tom anytime, great to be on. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
You bet all right, We'll be right back with more
gun talk.
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Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, we oft forget the question here of how long
does ammo last? How long is the ammo good for?
I mean, we tackle that one. But during the break
here I was just explained to gem. I said, you know,
I'm not much of a drinker, but I had a
beer this week and I realized that I think this
is beer left over from the Fourth of July from
last year. So help me out here. How long is
(17:20):
beer good for? Now? It's in the refrigerator. But I
kind of got a sneak and suspicion that there's a
life limit on beer even it's in the refrigerator. I
don't know. I mean, like I said, I don't drink
a lot of beer, clearly, but yeah, I was like, okay,
it was a spring day, it was pretty we were
cooking ribs, and I'll have a beer that tastes good.
(17:41):
It's nice. I almost finished one, too. Well, there it goes.
Sometimes you can't do that. Thinking about some of the
guns we have as reading some thoughts from people about
it's kind different. Somebody said, I like the way you
put he said, it's like going land. We are just
(18:07):
the caretaker. We're gonna pass it along to somebody. And
I think that's an interesting way to think about it,
because I mean, do you ever use up a gun?
I mean, yeah, it's possible you could wear one out.
I mean would you what would you do? Would you
throw it away? No, get repaired or something or traded
(18:28):
or whatever. But when you buy a gun, you kind
of expect it to outlast you. So now look, I'm
not saying you're investing, because that's a whole different thing.
You invest to expect things to increase in value. Some
guns will, but few, Honestly not a lot of guns
(18:50):
will increase in value. If you buy high end guns,
they may the top two, three, maybe five percent the
guns could increase in value, especially if you're buying collectible stuff.
That's not my bag. I'm not into that. I do
like pretty guns. I like guns that look good, but
(19:11):
I shoot the heck out of them, you know, Oh yeah,
I made a gun less pretty last week. Generally, I
like pretty guns, I like shooting them. And you know,
I have this forty five nineteen eleven that Bill Lowbridge
at Celder and Slide built. It took him a number
of months and not surprising me. It came in more
(19:34):
expensive because I kept saying yes, yeah, sure, he said,
well what about this, Yes, yes, sure it might as well, right,
might as well. The three most expensive words we say,
that's okay, it's gorgeous. It came in pretty, and then
I put a set of gorgeous cocobola grips on Burrowwood
grips on it from Bobby Tyler and Hotter gun Works. Well,
when I got to gun site, I was shooting in
(19:55):
the Class forty five. It's hot, hands are sweaty, slick grip. Now,
this isn't gonna work. So I thought, you know, I
went to the pro shop. They had everything there. So
I went ahead and got slim grips, aluminum grips that
are really slim grip panels, and I said, you know,
if you're gonna do it, go all the way. And
I picked up a drop safety. Actually it's a little
(20:18):
bit lower safety extended safety, and it had the gun
smith install those. And while you wouldn't think it would
make much difference, it was a huge improvement for me.
I have fairly short fingers and it just made it
possible for me to get a good purchase on the
grip and to get my trigger finger in at a
(20:38):
good ninety degree angle so I could press it straight
back without pushing it to the left, shooting right handed,
and just really like the way it feels now. It
isn't as pretty. I went with pretty much mostly black
aluminum grips, but man, when I picked that gun up,
it feels great now. And the funny part is I
(20:59):
was talking last week last yeah, last week with Phils
Trader at SIG. I mentioned that to him. He says, oh, yeah,
he says, I put slim grips on all my nineteen elevens.
He says, I have huge hands, he says, but I
just like the way that the slim grips feel.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
That's interesting even when a guy with big hands likes
the slim grips. I just kind of throw that out
to say, if you've never tried, if you have nineteen elevens,
and if you are of a mind too, it's something
you could just swap out yourself. You do have to
replace the grip bushings in the frame when you go
to the slim grips, but often you can buy those
(21:36):
as a set. The screws and the grip of the bushings,
you might want to try it, And if you have
anything close to small hands, you might want to try
the drop safety and see what you think about that. Clearly,
you can put them on and try them for a
while and swap them back out if you don't like them.
That's the beauty of the whole thing. And it's like
undoing screws and putting them back in. Even Tom can
(21:59):
do that most of the time. Me because I'm not mechanical,
but I even I could do that most of the time.
So you could try it and see if you like it,
and if you don't, you can squap back. You could
do one or the other or both whatever. But I'm
just saying when I did that, that gun just became
a lot more comfortable to shoot and really enjoyed it.
(22:19):
And yeah, shooting the forty five, I was taking on
more recoil than some of the people in the class
who are shooting nines and it was noticeable, you could
tell the difference. But still had a good time. And
oh yeah, by the way, I still love that gold
bead front site. That was amazing and all types of
light conditions. It may be old school, but the reason
(22:42):
it's still around is because it works. Uh yeah, we're
still talking about guns. We're having fun. I just did
my five days at gun site, three days of backcountry
flying training, learn stuff. I just really enjoy learning. Well
(23:04):
what I think of practical things or fun things. Or
I wasn't a great student in school. It's weird. I mean,
I love studying things now, and I think it was
the case of I just didn't see the value in
it or how it was going to apply, and enough
of a rebel to where I just said, you know,
if I had to understand what it's about, I'm probably
(23:24):
not going to do it. And so yeah, no, it's
it's not true that I wasn't a good student. What's
true is that I was a terrible student. I really was. Okay,
let's go to the phones line for Jerry's with us
out of Greeley, Colorado. Jerry, thank you so much for
your patients and going through that long break.
Speaker 9 (23:42):
Well, thanks for taking my call. Tom. You really kill
took Piece fifteen that it misbehaves when I used the
twelve round magazines as opposed to the I'm sorry, the
fifteen round magazines as opposed to the twelve round magazines.
So the twelve round magazines have a flat metal base plate.
(24:05):
They work flawlessly. The fifteen rounders have sort of like
a plastic plus three extender, I guess, and they're the
best I can see. The magazine base plate acts as
the overtravel stop to prevent the magazine from going too
far in on a reload. So with a full stack
(24:29):
of cartridges, it bumps the slide up off the slide stop,
and the slide springs forward when the magazine goes home.
I called Celtech. They told me they'd be happy to
send new magazines, but it wouldn't help because they're all
the same. So the only thing I can think of
is maybe putting a little dabblebee POxy on top of
(24:50):
the base plate rim so that it stops that overtravel.
But I just thought i'd see if you could could
think of any other factors that maybe I'm failing to consider.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
So the twelve rounders work, and the fifteen rounders, the
problem is when you put them in. If you smack
them in, it closed. The slide closes with that, Am
I getting that right?
Speaker 9 (25:12):
Exactly? That's right?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Okay? Does it do that? If you have downloaded the
fifteen round mag No, so only when it's got the
full fifteen rounds.
Speaker 9 (25:26):
Does it do it exactly? Yes, that's right.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
So what you have is fourteen round magazines.
Speaker 9 (25:34):
Yeah, you're right, Yep.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I don't want to It's like, I hate to cheat
you out of a round, but I think we just
figured out the workaround.
Speaker 9 (25:45):
Yeah, I suppose I'd be smarter than play an amateur gunsmith.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
I kind of hate the idea of messing with if
it's working fine at fourteen, you're going. You know, there's
a lot of guns out there where I would be
fine having fourteen plus one and let it go with
that and trying to mess with everything to get it
to work for the one extra round. I don't know,
it's probably where I would end up. But then again,
(26:10):
people would say, well, you're just lazy. You don't want
to work the problem.
Speaker 9 (26:13):
No I don't.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I want to just work. I just want it to
work and not have the fool with it. So that's
just the way I roll on the thing.
Speaker 9 (26:20):
That sounds like good advice to me. Dom, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Well, all right, good luck with that. I hope that
works for you. Appreciate the call, sir, Oh, let's see
let's go grab. Where are we going here? Oh, we're
gonna get David on line three because we always like
to talk about bear guns. All I got to do
is say bear guns and phonees light up.
Speaker 10 (26:38):
Hey David, how are you doing, sir?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Hey? I am good. You know what. I am free
of bears at the moment, So I'm good.
Speaker 9 (26:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (26:48):
Well, I live in an area where they're pretty prevalent,
you know, spring, summer, fall, and I usually have a
nine millimeter, but they're getting a girl us. And I
was looking at the Smith and Wesson five hundred and
kind of comparing it to the three fifty seven's and
(27:08):
the forty four's that are out there, and I just
wanted your opinion. And I know they're big bears and
they get pretty aggressive, and I'm just looking at a revolver.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, the issue I have And just so you know,
I have five hundred, and I have forty four's and
forty fives and four to fifty four cassoles and nines
and I got them all. I mean, I got everything.
My issue with the five hundred is I think it
is a great hunting revolver. The problem I for me,
(27:46):
I'm not going to put it on you. The problem
for me is that I cannot make fast follow up shots.
The recoil is just too much. That thing is going
to rock back with the musclem going almost word and
there's no way I'm going to make quick follow up shots.
And I personally would rather have probably like a ported
(28:13):
forty four magnum that would keep the muzzle down a
little bit, and that way I could practice with forty
four special loads and do a lot of practice with it,
and then if you actually needed it on bears, with
the forty four magnum full house loads, you'll never feel
the recoil, but the compensation, a little muscle break or
(28:36):
something on there would help hold the muscle down. But
it would work just fine. And you understand, David, the
whole idea is everything we talk about is a compromise.
Even a five hundred is a compromise because you should
be carrying a rifle. But we're not going to carry
a rifle. It's just not what we're going to do.
And so it's somewhere between the nine and a three seven,
(28:58):
five h and h rifle. We've got to find something.
And I am so inconsistent with this. I am ashamed
to even talk about it, because sometimes I'll carry a
three fifty seven, sometimes a forty four Special, sometimes a
forty four magnum. And you know what it ends up
coming down to for me is like which gun do
I want to carry today? More than which one's going
(29:20):
to be effective.
Speaker 9 (29:22):
Right now?
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (29:27):
Did it topped me off the five hundred? So I
I just stout some forty four mags and go from there.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Well, and the beauty of the forty four mag is, Look,
I hate shooting forty four magnums, and I will just
I'll turn in my man card right here and say,
just they kick a lot and hurt, and they're not
much fun at all. And by the time I've gone
through a full cylinder a forty four magnum, I'm done.
(30:00):
That's all I want. But you take that same gun
and you shoot forty four Specials in it, and you
can shoot that for a morning. It's fun. Little light
loads that don't do it. And if you want to
go even further, you can shoot forty four Russian in
the same revolver, same thing, for even lower power. And
the forty four Russian AMMO is usually spectacularly accurate. So
(30:26):
now you've got your big revolver that you carry and
you can shoot these fun little load and go out
and do a lot of shooting a lot of practice
and get real comfortable with the gun. That's what makes
the forty four magnum so versatile for me. It makes
it doable. You know, you carry the full house loads
when you're out with bear, But I mean you're going
(30:47):
to want to go shoot half a dozen of the
full house loads through the gun at some point. But
it doesn't take long for that to be enough.
Speaker 10 (30:57):
Yeah, no, no, I get it. Years ago when we
first moved up here, I had a four point fifty
eight and holy cow, I shot that a couple of times.
And if I had to travel for work, I told
my wife, I said, don't even go out the door.
Just shoot through the door.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Yeah, shoot through all the doors. Yeah. I mean, some
of these guns are really powerful, and they need to
be depending on which you're hunting. But holy cow, it
doesn't take long before you get at the point where
you're thinking, I don't want to do a lot of this.
I got to shoot up was it five or five?
(31:34):
Jeffrey good gravy. It's like, okay, yeah, thank you, very much.
Here you could have the other rounds back. I got
one off that was great. So I don't know. Maybe
I'm just at the point where I don't have anything
to prove anymore. So, but look, I wish you luck.
I if you get a chance, if you've got some
buddies who have a forty four magnum, try to go
(31:55):
shoot one with a forty four special in it and
see what you think. I think you'll like it.
Speaker 10 (32:00):
Thank you for your time, Tom, love your show.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
You bet good luck with that. Appreciate that. Hey, let's
grab Jim online four out of Colorado. Hey, Jim, you
made it onto gun Talk. What's going on? Hello?
Speaker 11 (32:14):
Hey, hey, I just wanted to announce that the Ben
Lowman Gun Club in Rama, Colorado has openings for new
members and you can apply online at www. B as
in Ben hell as in Lowmand. She isn't gun, she
(32:39):
is in club dot Org.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Okay, and I'm looking up where Rama, Colorado is.
Speaker 11 (32:48):
It's east of Colorado Springs about forty forty five miles.
It's south of Denver about forty five miles.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Gotcha, Yeah, I'll be it there now. So tell me
about your range.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
We have.
Speaker 11 (33:06):
Six hundred yard high power range. We have four hundred
yard high power range and the six hundred has burns
at one through six its club steel at four, five
and six. We have small Boer twenty two range where
(33:26):
nurl and venturesque silhouette shooting occurs. We have shotguns, keat
and trap. We have ten competition burms where IDPA and
two gun tactical rifle three gun competitions are calendar on
(33:51):
the website explains all of our sanctioned shoots.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Okay, and you're taking members. Let me give out that website.
It's b l g C, Bravo, Limo Golf Charlie dot org,
b l GC dot org.
Speaker 11 (34:07):
Right, yep, that's correct.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Good.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Well, look, thanks for giving us the heads up and
letting us know because it sounds like a real nice
range and if people are in the area, they ought
to jump on that. Thank you. Thanks for the call.
I appreciate that. Jim, you take care. I like that
long rain shooting out there in Colorader.
Speaker 12 (34:27):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Let's see. Uh, let's go grab Maurice and Lake Charles.
I love that linke on Lane one. Hey, Maurice, thank
you for holding on what's going on in Lake Charles.
Speaker 12 (34:35):
I want to talk about it. I just want to
tell you the only bears we got down here, he bears.
You just throw a piece of boot in, they'll let
you alone.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah, they play they play football too.
Speaker 12 (34:46):
They're good at that.
Speaker 11 (34:47):
That's it.
Speaker 12 (34:48):
They listen. The first thing was they just remind people
who are doing any kind of canting. And I've been
casting for years go A little while back, I picked
up a piece of lead that had been down signs
for a long time, but it been stored inside for
a couple of years. And when I dropped it into
the pot, it exploded. It had some moil. Oh, I
(35:10):
mean it burned a poopoo out of me, fortunately just
in a few places. But you know, hot leads hot, you.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Know, yeah, molten lead is hot. And then you drop
that in it with some water, all of a sudden,
the water just instantly vaporizes and blows up and it sprays.
Speaker 12 (35:29):
Out of a list of explosion. And I've been I've
been casting leads since the seventies. I've never had it happen.
But but the other thing I want to tell you.
A couple of weeks ago, you had talked about how
when business wasn't doing something that you wanted to do,
you know, get on the phone, call your friends, call it. Well.
(35:50):
A number of years ago, I had an occasion to
get into a row with a pizza place. They mistreated
me pretty badly. Now I got to tell you, I
had haired down on my shoulders. I was a musician,
but I was a regular customer, you know, and the
guy called cops home and threw me out. So I
called the district manager and he passed it on up
(36:11):
to the CEO. The CEO called me and said, look,
he said this is important to us because for every
one complaint on a local level, we multiplied times one hundred.
And I was talking to another CEO a few years
later he said, huh, he said, we multiply it by
a thousand. So one letter. Don't think that your one
(36:32):
letters aren't going to do anything, because if it gets
in the right hands, they're going to multiply it. They're
not going to say this is just an isolated incident.
They're going to figure it's whatever you're complaining about's happening
more and more.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
And Maurice to your point with your example, the local
manager may blow it off, but usually the higher up
you go, the more they pay attention to that. That's
really interesting.
Speaker 12 (36:57):
That is and I mean, this is this is what
I got from CEOs. This wasn't just something that.
Speaker 9 (37:03):
Was pulled out there.
Speaker 12 (37:04):
These are the people that managed the pizzas company was
a nation, nationwide chain, you know, and so I was
really surprised. I mean, I got results, and it's not
going to happen every time, but I guarantee you you
got a better chance of people paying attention. So if
a company is that doing something that you're comfortable with,
let them know.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
There you go, there you go. Well, thank you, sir.
I appreciate that call. I wanted that reminds me. I
want to share a story that came out of Florida.
A couple of weeks ago at Hoa Homeowners Association passed
a new rule, no guns in public areas on the
HOA property. Well, that went over like a lead balloon,
(37:46):
as you might imagine in Florida, where you got constitutional carry.
They said, yeah, but it's Hoa, we can do what
we want. Well, you can tell you you can't. And
the Florida Attorney General got involved in it because there
was a uproar online and I was talking about it
a good bit online. The Florida Attorney General came in
and says, yeah, no, you can't do that. We have
(38:08):
pre insion laws here even know, and they have already
changed their mind and pulled it back. So just case
and point, it's like, you do have the ability, especially
if you can put a few people together, you can
make a change in some of these things. Let's see, Jim,
we've got time to get Fred in here. Nope, we don't. Okay, Fred,
(38:30):
don't go anywhere. I'm gonna have to hit the brake here,
but I want to put you back in on the
backside here. I don't want to short change it because
you've only got a minute or so left here. So
all right, let me go out that website again. By
the way, if you're in Colorado, the Ben Loman Gun
Club which is BLGC for Ben Lomangun Club dot org.
We appreciated the call. Some of these clubs, there's a
(38:51):
long waiting list. It's hard to get in on some
of these shooting ranges, so it's nice when you got
it opening to jump right in there. I belong to
two different gun ranges, and I make sure that I
renew every year just so I can get in on them,
one that's local to me and one that's not. But
the local one gets covered up with six to twelve
feet of snow in the winter, so we can't shoot there.
(39:12):
So I got to have a place in lower elevations,
so we go down there and shoot in the winter.
It's a long drive, but it's either that or you
don't shoot at all. So there you go. It's just
one of the beauties or hazards of living where we do.
But we do love it all right. Eight six six
Talk Gun or Tom Talkgun. I'm Tom Greshmer. Check it
out gun talk dot com. We'll be right back. I
(39:42):
was thinking about how to explain why do I keep
going back and taking the same class again at gun
Sight and look, I have been to the cig Academy
and the Smith and Wesson Academy and tac Pro in Texas,
and Firearms Academy of Seattle and Academy and Gunside and
(40:02):
thunder Ranch, and it basically end up going back and
taking essentially the same class everywhere I go because you
need to tune up because I get rusty. I mean,
I found that I was two days into the class
this time before I was starting to really get my
skills back. I haven't practiced enough that. Again, do any
(40:24):
of us really practice enough? I mean, if you're a
competitive shooter, you're out there shooting five hundred rounds a week,
that's good. You're probably tuned up. I don't shoot that much.
I'm gonna try to. I just bought a whole bunch more, ammo.
I'm gona try to get out shoot a good bit
more and work on specific things. But in terms of
what do you get out of something like that, I
(40:46):
think you definitely get skills, physical skills, learn to shoot
and learn to draw. You get mental skills, so I
think psychological skills of getting your brain tuned up. Of Okay,
I can do this, I must do this, I will
do this. This is how I will respond. You're putting
(41:10):
all that stuff in your head. And I do understand
that there's a real commitment of time and money. There is,
and I don't want to make light of that. And
we all are pressed for money, and nobody has an
(41:31):
unlimited budget as far as I know, And I would
just say, try to find some way to get training.
If you can go to top school grade, if you
can't find somebody locally, it's better than nothing. It is
going to be better than nothing. And yeah, they're good
YouTube places. You can go to our place, rains Ready
(41:52):
Studios down Louisiana. We have really good training and it's
not nearly as expensive as some of the big schools,
so it's top dots. It's very good. So you can
check out rains Ready Studios dot com look for the
schedule there. We're always doing fun stuff. Sign up for
the newsletter because a lot of us we'll have a
company that comes down and says, hey, we want to
introduce a new product, and we'd like to have some
(42:13):
of your people come in and we open those up
for people to come in and shoot the brand new product.
And those things sell out within two days, so if
you wait for it to show up on the website,
it probably won't. You got to be on the newsletter list,
so there you go. I like going to this because
it reinforces to me I'm carrying every day I'm looking,
(42:36):
and I'm going to try to avoid a confrontation if
at all possible. You also learn different ways of doing
different things, and that's like with the flying stuff I
was just doing and flying into weird little places in
the middle of nowhere, and we're flying one hundred and
fifty feet off of the ground as we make our approach. Yeah,
one hundred and fifty feet doing really low approaches into
places and landing in places that people would say, you
(42:58):
can't land an airplane there. Yeah, you can if you
have the right technique. Yeah, you can shoot well. If
you have the right technique, you can shoot better than
you shoot now, a lot better. You just you need
a good set of eyes and a trainer who could
explain it to you. So whether you go, it doesn't
matter where you go. Go somewhere and you'll hear Ryan
say the same thing. Congratulations, by the way to Ryan
(43:21):
and the crew of hitting a million followers on Facebook.
The Range Ready crew, the gun Talk Headquarters crew is amazing.
It's a small number of people and they outperform teams
out there that have several times more people. It's really worthwhile.
And if you get down to Range Ready you'll see
where I'm talking about. Everybody that goes says, that's the
most amazing group of people I've ever been with. Yeah,
(43:43):
they are. Hey, check out the after show. We're going
to move Fred over there. Just because we thought this
stuff was that interesting. So that'll be available on our
podcast in just a few hours after the show. In
the meantime, go out and have yourself a good weekend, Barb.
If you be with your friends, remember why we are
and bring this weekend you. Be careful out there. We'll
see you next week right here on gun Talk.
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