November 30, 2025 • 44 mins
REBROADCAST- In This Hour:
-- Gun ban group Everytown launches a new firearms training effort. Reporter Lee Williams took the course and reveals it to be pure anti-gun messaging.
-- Gun rights supporters infiltrated a meeting of gun banners and were surprised at what they heard.
-- Change the way you carry your gun with different clothes.
Gun Talk 11.30.25 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Gun ban group Everytown launches a new firearms training effort. Reporter Lee Williams took the course and reveals it to be pure anti-gun messaging.
-- Gun rights supporters infiltrated a meeting of gun banners and were surprised at what they heard.
-- Change the way you carry your gun with different clothes.
Gun Talk 11.30.25 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hey, this is Tom Gresham. We hope you enjoyed this
reloaded version. Hey, word, still talk about guns? Well that's
what we do around here. Hey, I'm Tom Gresham. I'm
glad that you could be with me. I am the
host of Gun Talk, and we basically just have a
good time. If there's something on your mind, if you
have a question about a gun, think about buying one,
thinking about selling one. Maybe you wonder why do some
(00:52):
of us, many of us actually have guns for protection,
not only at home, not only in a vehicle, actually
on our person and wearing it on our belt as
we go about our daily activities. If that puzzles you,
or if you think it's a little weird, give me
a call. Look, I'm not going to shout you down.
I'm not going to cut you off. If we have
(01:12):
a pleasant, respectful conversation, we can go a lot of
different places with that number. Here is pretty easy to remember.
I'm Tom, So it is Tom talk gun simple as that.
I am a big proponent of getting training, of taking
classes to become a better shooter, to become better informed
(01:33):
about self defense with guns, to simply just be better
with your firearm. And so I take a lot of
different classes. I go to a lot of different places.
It's fun to take classes, and it's fun to become
better at this. And so it was really a surprise
when a gun control group, every Town for Gun Safety,
(01:55):
decided they're going to become a gun training organization. Well,
we were skeptical, so is Lee Williams. Lee Williams is
known as the gun writer and Lee joined just right now.
And Lee, you actually took this class, didn't you.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah, yes, sir, I did. I took an hour and
a half. And that was an hour and a half
of my life. I wish I could have back.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
No, no, And it's all online, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
None of their courses are live with an instructor. This
was the basic the smart guy to buying a gun.
It was twenty dollars. You can take it live or
on demand. I took it on demand. They have two
additional courses, including a range trip where you sit in
your home and you watch people shoot. No, yeah, you're
(02:45):
not going to the range with every town. Their instructors,
I don't know who they are. Who they were. Their
names were Nellison, Jake. We didn't get there. They didn't
provide their last names on their website. And you know
as well as I do instructors out there, I mean,
you're going to get every course they've ever attended, everything
they've ever trained, in addition to their full names.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So they didn't even tell you who they were. They
just used first names, and you don't even know if
those your real names.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
No, exactly. Well, what I found out too is they
never mentioned where they were trained, you know, who made
them instructor what certifications did they have? Nothing? We got
Nellis and Jake and that's about it.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
Okay, all right?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
So I mean you and I both figure you got
to go into this course. It's not going to be
like real training. But was it maybe like training light?
Was there some value to it?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
What was it like the only value to it? And
I mean the only value to it. They had Colonel
Jeff Cooper's for general firearm safety rules. They never mentioned
his name, never credited him, of course not. It's like
they took credit for coming up with these rules themselves.
But it was scary, brother. I mean some of the
(04:05):
stuff they said, you know, they obviously they had their
bullet points, but then some of the things they would
say were just amazing. And this all occurred after this
massive liability warning that you have to click that you
agree or you can't go any further. Basically, it says,
if you need specific advice or expertise about your use
(04:28):
of guns, go to a qualified professional. Yeah, exactly, I
love it.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Okay, So what's really going on here?
Speaker 5 (04:43):
Why is every.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Day on a gun band group wanting to become a
gun training group.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
They want to scare their viewers so badly that no
one is going to carry one, that you're going to
have your gun disassembled and locked up, and you're a
munition in a different room and your magazine's in a
different room. That was clearly the goal. Guns are dangerous,
they should be unloaded, disassembled and locked up. They were
constantly saying, basically, if you're a gun novice, and you
(05:14):
watch this, you're never going to buy a gun, much
less want to carry one if you believe what they're saying.
That is the problem with this crap.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Huh Okay, you know, actually that's logical and starts to
make some sense because on the front end, you're thinking, Okay,
what are they doing?
Speaker 5 (05:32):
What's going on? So what are they doing?
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Are they spewing all of the anti gun nonsense and
so called research at you.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Yeah, and there's even some more in there. I mean,
they brought up racist police officers, and having been in
law enforcement for ten years, I took a huge issue
with that. Jake said, police interactions may be risky for
black gun owners. We want to acknowledge that, gather more
information about polation your area. They're not. That's complete bs
and it's just wrong to say. I mean, they're these
(06:04):
two instructors. They stressed the benefits of building your home
build a home security system with alarm signs, detals, doorbells,
because that'll keep them out until the bad guy's in there.
Their solution then adopted dog. We have a little Boston
terrior here's she's incredible at barking as strangers. I don't
(06:26):
think she's going to disarm anybody. I may be wrong,
So what.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I mean in Look, you've been to a lot of training,
You've done a lot of this stuff. Love it, I
love it, And you have covered these guys for a
long time.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
What is your takeaway on this thing?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Well, it was interesting that they never even mentioned ars
or showed a photo of an AR or any other
semi auto rifle. That's a huge, huge point. I mean,
my home defense gun is an AR. I think it's
they're trying to load this up to scare folks, so
(07:11):
hoping that people will look at this and be so
scared about the Oh my god, the vagaries of home
defense are just so crazy. I don't know what I'm
going to do rather than understand that, you know, sometimes
you got to do what you need to do. But
the fact that they took Colonel Cooper's rules and didn't
even give him an ounce of credit.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
Who is going to take this class?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
I think you're going to find people on the fringe.
On the fringe all the mentions I got of my story,
the story did okay. There's one guy who took all
three and he was able to invest some pretty good
thoughts on it. But you're still paying them money. You know,
you're talking a hundred bucks for some of these classes,
(08:00):
and that's just crazy. I think it's they came up
with a new way of putting out anti gun propaganda.
And I'll give them this, brother, I mean, it works.
It works. If you're a novice, or you don't have somebody,
or you're not listening to your show, you're going to
watch this and you're going to become scared because they're
(08:22):
parenting these little small doses a real gun safety information. Yeah,
I think that's what they're looking at. Anybody with who's
ever fired around down range is going to laugh their
butt off, trust me.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
But at the same time, you know, these guys are
incredibly well funded. I'm sure it's well researched, and you
know they focus group to this thing, and I say, Okay,
this is a way that we can continue our anti
gun message to people who might be on the fence
and thinking, Okay, well maybe we ought to get a gun, honey,
we ought to look into this and let's go to
(08:57):
the gun safe people from every town for gun safety
because we're scared of him anyway, and we wanted to
go to a safe place, and yeah, they would be
susceptible from coming away from that and going WHOA, I'm
sure glad we took that class. We're never getting a gun.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Yeah, or we had a gun. Let's take it completely
apart and we'll hide all the parts in twelve rooms. Yeah,
holy cow, Hey, yeah, it was it was bad.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Let me ask you, I've got to hit a break
here when we come back, could you give us an
update on.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Tate without any doubt?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Happy to, Okay, this is a big story, a continuing story,
and Li's b at the front of this. Let's take
a quick break. I want to come back and get
that because this is one of the biggest miscarriages of
justice about firearms I've ever heard of and got my
fingers crossed as something good to come from it, but
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
I'm Tom Gresham. We'll be right back with more gun.
Speaker 6 (09:57):
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Speaker 3 (12:11):
Hi, I'm Kim Roady from California. Welcome back to gun Talk,
the place where we celebrate all things shooting, hunting, and
the Second Amendment.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
We're talking with Lee Williams.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
He's known as the gun writer, and you've been the
guy who has been covering and pushing and keeping this
in front of people. The story about Patrick tait Adamiak
is that the correct way his last name.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
It is sir. Yes, I have and I wish Patrick
was out of jail more than anything right now. He's
just starting his third year of his twenty year prison sentence.
Patrick was a parts dealer. He didn't have an FFL.
He was selling gun parts online and was sentence to
(12:57):
twenty years for items that you can buy legal right
now on a website. They don't even need to see
your ID.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
That sounds ridiculous on the face of it. How did
that happen?
Speaker 4 (13:09):
It is the ATF went to a bad source. The
source contacted Patrick, bought a couple of items. AHF raided
his home, went through all his safe They couldn't find
anything illegal, so they brought They bought in this guy
who used to sell guns, and he basically cut up
(13:31):
stuff and charged him with PPSh body, RPGs of it
hanging on the wall, and a toy sten that he
brought in a real stin parts kid and got to
fire one round. I mean they went to work on
this guy to save ATF some from looking foolish. But
(13:56):
my god, he's serving twenty years.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
They were investigating, They weren't trying to find out if
he had committed a crime. They said, Okay, we're going
to put this guy in jail and don't come You
go into that room and don't come out until you
have made something illegal out of what he had.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
And that was ATF Firearms Enforcement Officer Jeffrey Bodell's job.
I mean, he turned RPGs into destructive devices. One hundred
percent legal semi autos in the machine guns. Tate had
handguns that fire from an open bowl. They're super rare,
super expensive, he called the machine and they're legal. You
(14:34):
can buy them online, they'll ship. You know, Sandell basically
insisted we're illegal, are still sold online.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Bring us up to date now.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Well, I talked to his appell at attorney. I know
I'm not a big fan of attorney's period, but I
got to tell you this, Matt LaRosa L Rosier, he's
based in Orlando, is the real deal. He's a fighter.
Got nice picture of him on my website where he's
shooting France's first semi automatic rifle. He's a gun guy.
(15:06):
He's based in like I said, based in Orlando, and
we're going to have He won an appeal one of
the charges they admitted. The appellate court found that the
trial court had screwed up on They charged him twice
for the same thing. Like le Rozier said, it'd be
like charging someone with murder and manslaughter for a death.
(15:29):
So he gets a hearing on that and hopefully, hopefully
he'll be able to bring up some of these other
charges that are completely wrong.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Well, the thing I want people to understand, I've been
covering the ATF for fifty years and I have seen
this happen. I've heard about this happening. I had a
friend who the atf did a raid on his place.
He was a large machine gun dealer, took his guns,
(15:59):
kept him for a year, never charged him with a crime,
just took his guns. And when he went to them
and said, you know, how do I get my guns back,
they said, if you make a stink about this, we're
going to charge you. He finally filed against them, and
the next day they took away. They revoked his license
and charged him with a crime. They just went and
(16:21):
stole like a quarter of a million or a million
dollars worth of guns from him. I mean, they had helicopters,
they had vans, they had news crews coming in behind them.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
It was like Waco all over again.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
That's how they operate. They they when they do these warrants,
they hit people who would gladly let them into their
home and open their sace and show them nothing illegal, right,
They hit it with swat teams. Like these guys are
such bad oberis. They're not. I mean, look obviously, look
what happened in recently to the gentleman who tried to
(16:56):
defend himself because he thought they were bad guys.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
They killed them in his Yeah, Brian Melanowski, he was
the director of the Little Rock, Arkansas Airport, a respective
member of the community. He went to his office every day,
and instead of going to his office and having a
conversation with him, ATF kicks in the door in the
middle of or like six o'clock in the morning. He
thinks it's a home invasion. He gets his gun and
(17:20):
they shoot him and kill him.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
And you know, the one thing that we're seeing, excuse me,
is that ATF is hitting these good people because they're
convinced if you sell guns or gun parts, you must
be doing something illegal. So they get these terrible, terrible informants.
They pay him thousands of dollars and they get nothing,
but they still go and kick these doors in. And
(17:43):
that is the scary part. Nothing Tate has or had
was illegal. I mean, Tom, they even took his queen collection,
which was worth a lot of money.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
There's something else here, Lee and I have decided, after
watching this for decades, is they really like to do
these big, publicize raids on people they know are not
only not guilty, but people that they know are not
(18:14):
going to resist because it's a lot safer to kick
in the doors of good guys rather than go after
bad guys.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, if the AHF is looking for
something to do, go into the inner city and go
after the guys who are have these blocks which is
on that are running down innocent people. Okay, that is
a vital vital this. I mean not even the Navy
brought in the judge brought up the Navy. How they're
going to go take him and knock him down at
(18:45):
E one he was an six and active duty six
and he's.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Going to go into the seals. He was going to
become a Navy seal.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
He had been accepted in the seal school. Yeah, well,
the Navy thought different. He was allowed to serve out
his enlistment behind bars, and he was paid up until
the day that the Navy gave him an honorable discharge.
That's a lot about it. Maybe, all right, question now
he even gets free college.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Tom Jez all right, question for you anyway, And then
we got to go, you've been covering this, and you
also cover stuff that's going on with the Department of
Justice and the Trump administration. Is there a possibility of
getting the President Trump to come in and say, all right,
knock it off, I'm going to pardon this guy.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
Make it go away.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I've heard that same question from more than one hundred people.
I would say he will do it, but he's got
to wait until I think the legal has finished. Right now,
Matt Lerosary could get him out.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Well, look, I appreciate you covering and keeping us up
to date on this. It's one of those stories. It's like,
I hate that we have to talk about this, but
we have to.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Talk about this.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
We do, I know, we agree.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, thank you, sir. You can check out his writing
at his substack. Place where else can they see what
you're up to?
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Org? Go to saf is in Second Amendments Foundation dot org.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
There you go, late, Thank you for covering that. Thank
you for keeping us up to date.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
And I'm sorry you had to sit through an hour
and a half of every town so called gun training.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Man.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
God, it's okay, thank you, Thank you about sympathy.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
All right, you take care? Yeah you know, yeah, okay,
we know what every town's up to. They're pretty sophisticated.
They got some smart people there, and they got a
lot of money. They got Michael Bloomberg's Look, the guy
is worth I don't know, somewhere between fifty and one
hundred billion dollars, and gun control is his thing, and
(20:41):
taking guns away from people, that's his thing. And so
he created every Town for Gun Safety, and he created
the Traces phony news organization that's nothing more than a
propaganda piece for gun control. And so when they come
up with a firearm training organization and you know that
they researched, you know they've looked at it, that it's
(21:03):
part of an overall plan. And so while it's kind
of fun to make fun of it, at the same time,
it would be foolish to not take it seriously.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Okay, what are they doing there? Isn't really good?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
There are actually several, but there's a really good The
biggest gun training organization, you know what it is, the NRA.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
One hundred and.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Twenty five thousand Certified Firearm Instructors, the largest firearm training
organization in the country, maybe in the world. Certainly train
more people than probably all of the law enforcement organizations
put together. So we do have good training out there,
(21:47):
whether it's the NRA, USCCA, I mean, pick your group.
There are a lot of those. And then of course
you've got private organizations. You got gun Site and thunder
Ranch and higher Place range reading studios, But there are
good trainers everywhere. I guess maybe the way for me
to put a bow on this little story is that
(22:08):
maybe it's time to make a commitment or a recommitment
for you personally to go take another class somewhere or
take your first class. If you've never taken a class,
you're in for a treat. It's really a lot of
fun and you will learn a lot. And you know,
if you've already done it, how much fun it is
and how much you learn. And guess what you've forgotten
half of what you're learned in that class, because we do.
(22:28):
It's time to go back sign up for a class. Hey,
this is Tom Gresham. We hope you enjoyed this reloaded version.
All right back with you eighty six six tak gun Clark.
I'm going to get to you in just a minute.
I'll have to just got your message. We're going to
(22:49):
get that typed in. Have them give you a shout
because i'd like to get that range report from you.
What just happened? A lot of interesting stuff going on.
It's a change of season. Next week we do the
fallback thing. We're supposed to get about four to six
inches of snow tonight looks clear out here right now,
(23:09):
but you never know. As we've got a change of season,
we have change of clothing, which means possibly change in
the way you carry a firearm. So you knew I
was going to get there eventually. So when you go
to heavier clothes, more clothes, more layers, it can become
(23:31):
easier to conceal a gun, but it can also become
more complicated depending on what you're wearing. One of the
things I guess I would suggest is as you make
a change, if you say, okay, I'm going to have
a sweater, I'm gonna have a vest. And oh, by
the way, I really like vest for cover garments. I
(23:55):
have a number of fleece vests that work really well.
I can carry a full sized pistol and outside the
waistband holster on my belt and a vest will cover
it up and you just never see the pistol. I've
got a magazine and a mag pouch on one side
and a big pistol on the other side, and nobody
(24:17):
ever notices so, and then you can put a coat
over that whatever. But just a if you get somewhere,
you got to take your coat off. You still have
your vest on which you can wear like anywhere in
a restaurant or some other place. So I'm a big
fan of the fleece insulated whatever you want to do it.
Insulated vest as a cover garment doesn't work in the
(24:40):
hot summer, but boy, this time of year, it's a
really good option. So just you know, some thoughts for
you there. Oh, by the way, when we had al
on earlier, he was asking about his grandson's in skeet shitting.
You also wanted to know what gauge do I recommend
The thing is in skeet you have different gauges that
(25:01):
you shoot.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
There's a twelve gage category I guess you'd call it.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
And you shoot twelve, twenty, twenty eight, and four ten.
There's no sixteen gage, so you know, pick one. You're
gonna be competing against other people shooting the same gage.
But you can use a twenty gauge, for instance, in
a twelve gage event.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
It's not a bad idea because you're going to break.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Pretty much the same number of targets with the twenty
gage as you are with a twelve gage. You're gonna
have less recoil. But I would also say that for
ski shooting, definitely go with low recoil loads, go with
lighter charge weights lower basically lighter, less pellets. I guess
(25:47):
this would be the way to put it. And you
might say, well, geek, if you have fewer pellets, can
you break targets? Yeah, you can. Actually, the reduced recoil
really helped people break more targets. So there you go.
Uh yeah, I'll tell you what. If you've got CROCS number,
go ahead and give him a holler. I give him
a call. We'll get him up here and just we'll
(26:09):
bring him in on the back side of this break.
We're doing this live. We're catching the flys that are
coming by, so we'll grab that as well. Let's do this.
Let's grab Alan online three and bring him in right now. Hey, Alan,
what's in your mind?
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Sir? Well, you were.
Speaker 10 (26:28):
Talking about the ATF and how they they trick these
people and take their guns and stuff. This has been
going on forever. They this whole thing up there at
North Idaho where Reggie Weaver, he was baited into sawing
off a shotgun. They wanted him to have paid him money.
(26:50):
Lived on up there in a cab and had no money,
and they paid him money to cut off the shotgun,
and then, of course he said, they soughted off more
and't proved different. But as it worked out, they ended
up shooting his unarmed wife on the porch, killed her,
and they shot the boy because they shot the dog.
And then they ended up the boy shooting at them,
(27:12):
and they ended up killing the boy too, Sammy.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
They shot Sammy in the back, his teenage boy killed him,
shot Vicky, his wife killed her uy she was holding
the infant. And yeah, they set up Randy Weaver by
getting him coercing him to cut a barrel off on
a shotgun.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
Here's the thing. We're talking about a pipe.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
It's a simple pipe, and if it's eighteen inches long,
it's legal. If it's seventeen and three quarter inches long,
it's illegal. And they got him to cut it off.
And then they said, okay, now we got you. We
want you to inform on this group. And he said,
I'm not going to do that. I'm not even a
part of that group of white separatists or whatever they were.
He said, I don't know those guys. I'm not a
(27:55):
part of our group. They said, well, you got to
go and get in there and he said, I'm just
not going to do it. They said, well, then we're
going to have to rest you. And so that's how
that whole thing started. It was from their coercion to
get him to cut a piece of pipe off. When
you think about it, it's just immoral and ridiculous on
the face of it. But that look, this goes way back.
(28:16):
There are so many stories about this is how ATF
is worked. You know, it wasn't here's the thing. It
wasn't Wayne Lapierre the first dubbed the ATF jack booted thugs.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
You know who it was.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
It was John Dingle, a Democrat congressman who originally came
up with the term jack booted thugs for the ATF.
Going way back, so this has been going on for
forty years, fifty years, whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
So look, I appreciate the call.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I appreciate you bringing that up because that's that's something
that we we have to remember. We have to remember
to remind people this is the history the legacy of
a rogue agency. Yeah, John Dingo was the one that
called him a rogue agency and called him jack booted thugs.
Wasn't the NRA that came up with that he was
(29:06):
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tips for the range, or the hot topics everyone's buzzing about,
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Speaker 3 (31:31):
So a few minutes ago, I'm doing the show.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
We're talking with Lee Williams.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
We're talking about this training class from every Time for
gun safety, and I get a text from Clark Opocian,
who of course is a top fires instructor and Second
Amendment activist out in Utah. He says, he says, we
need to talk. I said, well, call Clark, let's find
out what's going on. So Clark, what's going on?
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Hey Tom?
Speaker 12 (31:55):
Tom?
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Tom?
Speaker 12 (31:56):
We infiltrated the Mom's Command Action meeting last week, that's
Wednesday at Salt Lake City, and we intercepted an email. Yeah,
we intercepted an email and found out, well, they're going
to have it as a local library. I checked the
rules and regsit library. They can't kick us out of
even their meeting room that they reserved. So we showed
up in cognito. You know, I'm not wearing my colors
(32:20):
or anything like that, and I went with Rayel Cunningham,
she's the regional director for Women for Gun Rights, and
we just sat in the back and listened. They had
their executive director for Women or for Mom's Demand Action
there and I found I googled it while while she
was there. You know how much she makes. First off,
(32:43):
she spoke for about fifteen minutes and answered three questions
in a litany of basically word salad. If I was
if I was one of their supporters that showed up
and was hoping for some information to you know, go
to the legislature or my representatives with, I would have
felt woefully inadequate with they told just terrible word salad.
This woman goes around, she makes three hundred and fifty
(33:05):
k a year doing this from you know, remember this
is Bloomberg money, the same person that started mayors for
illegal guns and so many of them were indicted and
put in prison for one thing or another. But in fact,
moms demand action. The two main people, the main person
for the state and the regional director that covers Utah.
(33:28):
They're both men, so they and no matter what they say,
they can never be moms. But anyway, how was the turnout?
Twenty three people including us, and so we came with free.
I came with one of my directors, and so eighteen
people decides or no, yeah, eighteen or nineteen people then
(33:49):
plus us so and it lasted about an hour and
a half and they had snacks. But essentially I had
my director who flies under the radar, and he asked
the question, well, well, what kind of what kind of
we need some stats on? You know, this and that
and this. They kept saying every time we wanted data,
(34:09):
every time we wanted stats or facts or something to
look up, they said, no, no, no, no, no, we
don't do stats. We do storytelling. That was their words.
We do storytelling. We influenced via storytelling. So so anyway,
and we know that another very interesting thing they started
talking about safe storage. You know, NFSF has been doing
(34:31):
safe storage for years and years and years. Their mantra
was exactly the same as nssf's, Yet they thought this
was a unique and novel approach. Then with suicide, Utah
is number seven or number eight right now in suicide,
So we're high, they literally said. The regional director literally
(34:51):
said the LDS Church, the Church of Jesus Christ Laraday Saints,
is to blame for the high suicide rate. He said
that part out. We actually have it recorded. So anyway,
they blame, they blame Missouri's crime rate. And they literally said,
you know, thousands of black men are being killed in
(35:13):
Missouri and they said it's because of bad gun laws.
And we said, and I actually had to stop my
director from raising his hands, thing who's killing them? And
why isn't it happening next door? But they literally blamed,
they literally blamed the gun laws. And we have much
(35:34):
more permissive laws in Utahn where third and third list
and homicide.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Quite question for you, were the people who were sitting
in on this were they buying it?
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Were they just soaking all this up and believing it.
Speaker 12 (35:47):
Well, it's hard to tell. They didn't you know, when
you do that, you ask a lot of questions, you
get a lot of audience involvement. There were probably five
questions over this hour and a half and that is it.
So I mean, and you know what, we accounted for
two of those questions too.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
So anyway, call to actions.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
So I kind of like, therefore we're all going to
go out and do this thing.
Speaker 12 (36:13):
Nope, Nope, there was go to the website, sign up
and their their mantra would sign up and show up.
Oh the other thing is they literally said the quiet
part out loud. They said, are red shirts and sometimes
moms command actions are not being received well even among
(36:34):
they didn't say democrats, but even among our people. And
so now they've switched to the same exact mantra. But
now they're doing this be smart, their training program, be smart,
and they're wearing green shirts. So that so that when
they see the red shirts, they don't you know, they
don't get people running from them. But you know they're
(36:56):
going to use They set out loud that they want
to use the Michigan shooting as a way to influence churches, uh,
get into what they do, and that.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Yeah, they take a tragedy and they use that for
political gain. I mean that is how they work. And
like you say, and they don't really care about the
actual numbers. Are is crime going up? Is crime going down?
Doesn't matter, Just tell a story that makes people feel
bad and then say, if you don't want to feel
bad about that kind of thing, you need to have
more gun control loss.
Speaker 12 (37:27):
Yep, somebody did ask about They actually brought up the
NRA and other pro gun training organizations. This was, you know,
one of their followers, and the regional director said, oh no,
the NRA's idea of safe storage is just hide it
under a mattress. And their idea of firearm training is
just shoot everybody. And we have that on recording to.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Oh jeez, I said that, I'm not surprised. Look that
they lie for a living. That's what they do. I'm
glad that you got to get in there. You slipped
in and got I'm sure you recorded the whole thing. Fascinating,
but it's also interesting that they had so few people.
It's like there's really nobody there. There's no impact. I
think they are quickly becoming irrelevant.
Speaker 12 (38:11):
Yeah, yeah, and the key thing is irrelevant even among
their own people, their own people are running from them,
and you know, and the legislators are so yeah, there
you go.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Clark Aposha, thank you for bringing us up to date
on that. Well done. You guys are doing great work
out there.
Speaker 12 (38:33):
Thanks Tom.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Alrighty, you take care. Yeah wow.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Kind of not surprised that even among the Democrats they're
not paying attention to the rabbit anti gunners, the gun banners.
I mean, look, they're gun banners, and they'll say that,
they'll actually come out with that, and the fact that
they're saying, well, you know they are already. They just say,
shoot everybody that's been their whole dealers, been raised those
(39:00):
us for everybody.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
No, never said that, never said to you to everybody, and.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Certainly never said to store your gun under a mattress
for safe storage.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
For heaven's sakes, you know, it's the case like, okay.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
If you're in control of your gun, that's one thing,
and if you're not, you're not there.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
Yeah, you need to have it stored safely.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
N NSSF have both said that for many years. Just
thinking about that last report we had from Clark epotion,
they infiltrated a meeting of the gun banners. The Mom's
(39:41):
Demand Action Group. They're the ones who show up at
legislators legislatures and they have their red shirts on and
they sit there and yeah, look it makes an impact
that it's good effect for the cameras.
Speaker 5 (39:58):
I like the idea.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I've been filtrating these groups and you know, and you
can join those groups I have. I've joined every town
and Mom's Demand and get their newsletters and get the
email and find out when they're going to have a meeting,
and go to the meeting. Take a couple of your friends,
don't sit together, and maybe spread out and maybe each
of you you limit yourself to one question each so
(40:22):
it doesn't look like you're gaging it up on them.
And you're sitting in different places, and you ask a
question very innocently, you know, well, what are women supposed
to do when they're vulnerable and they're out on the
street and there's nobody there to take care of them?
(40:42):
What do we recommend? And just throw questions like that
out there, basically just tossing monkey wrenches into the whole thing.
I get it that you're thinking, well, that's not going
to be effective, that's not going to do anything. You
know what we would do it'd be entertaining and it
(41:03):
would eventually, probably quickly, cause them to make a change
in what they do. I don't know if this meeting
is like a fundraiser. I don't know if they even
care about fundraising that much. Honestly, when they've got Bloomberg
Bucks behind them, maybe they don't need the money. You
even wonder why are you even having a meeting, And
(41:24):
maybe it's just because we got to, you know, feed
the folks out there, keep them interested so that when
we want them to show up at the legislature they will.
But I kind of like the idea, you and two
of your buddies, particularly women, if you can wives, girlfriends, whatever, sisters,
(41:45):
bring them with you and filtrate the meeting, sit at
different places. Oh, that would be a good range report
for gun talk. If you do that, you get some
serious out of boys and added girls on that one
we can I like this idea. This is getting to
be kind of a fun Would it be too much
(42:08):
to say this is enemy action? Of course it is.
They want to stomp out our constitutional rights. They want
to stomp out the rights that are God given. Because
the Second Amendment is not a right granted to us
by the Constitution.
Speaker 5 (42:25):
It's a right.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
There's guaranteed by the Constitution. The Second Amendment simply tells Congress,
you have to keep your hands off of our guns.
The right to keep in bear arms shall not be infringed.
It doesn't grant us a right. It simply tells the government,
(42:48):
we already have this right, and you've got to leave
it alone. These people want to eliminate this right. They
want to eliminate your ability to protect yourself and your family.
They openly say it should be all be illegal for
you to protect yourself and your family. And they make
(43:12):
pretty good strides in some places to get people prosecuted
when they do, in fact protect themselves. So I have
no problem in filtrating their meetings and finding out what
they're doing.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
That's just smart.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
If you want to talk about that, or you want
to talk about your guns, give me a holler right now.
We'll blow it right into the after show. Ete six'
six talk gun in the meantime this. Week check it.
Out go to xSex dot. Com that's The Elon musk
thing Formerly. TWITTER i am at Gun talk over. There
i'll be posting a number of things with updates to
the stories that we're talking about, Here so if you
(43:49):
want to keep, up you want to know what's going,
on follow me over on, next and follow us on
all the social media platforms because gun talk is everywhere
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Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hey, this is Tom Gresham. We hope you enjoyed this
reloaded version. Hey, word, still talk about guns? Well that's
what we do around here. Hey, I'm Tom Gresham. I'm
glad that you could be with me. I am the
host of Gun Talk, and we basically just have a
good time. If there's something on your mind, if you
have a question about a gun, think about buying one,
thinking about selling one. Maybe you wonder why do some
(00:52):
of us, many of us actually have guns for protection,
not only at home, not only in a vehicle, actually
on our person and wearing it on our belt as
we go about our daily activities. If that puzzles you,
or if you think it's a little weird, give me
a call. Look, I'm not going to shout you down.
I'm not going to cut you off. If we have
(01:12):
a pleasant, respectful conversation, we can go a lot of
different places with that number. Here is pretty easy to remember.
I'm Tom, So it is Tom talk gun simple as that.
I am a big proponent of getting training, of taking
classes to become a better shooter, to become better informed
(01:33):
about self defense with guns, to simply just be better
with your firearm. And so I take a lot of
different classes. I go to a lot of different places.
It's fun to take classes, and it's fun to become
better at this. And so it was really a surprise
when a gun control group, every Town for Gun Safety,
(01:55):
decided they're going to become a gun training organization. Well,
we were skeptical, so is Lee Williams. Lee Williams is
known as the gun writer and Lee joined just right now.
And Lee, you actually took this class, didn't you.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah, yes, sir, I did. I took an hour and
a half. And that was an hour and a half
of my life. I wish I could have back.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
No, no, And it's all online, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
None of their courses are live with an instructor. This
was the basic the smart guy to buying a gun.
It was twenty dollars. You can take it live or
on demand. I took it on demand. They have two
additional courses, including a range trip where you sit in
your home and you watch people shoot. No, yeah, you're
(02:45):
not going to the range with every town. Their instructors,
I don't know who they are. Who they were. Their
names were Nellison, Jake. We didn't get there. They didn't
provide their last names on their website. And you know
as well as I do instructors out there, I mean,
you're going to get every course they've ever attended, everything
they've ever trained, in addition to their full names.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So they didn't even tell you who they were. They
just used first names, and you don't even know if
those your real names.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
No, exactly. Well, what I found out too is they
never mentioned where they were trained, you know, who made
them instructor what certifications did they have? Nothing? We got
Nellis and Jake and that's about it.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
Okay, all right?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
So I mean you and I both figure you got
to go into this course. It's not going to be
like real training. But was it maybe like training light?
Was there some value to it?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
What was it like the only value to it? And
I mean the only value to it. They had Colonel
Jeff Cooper's for general firearm safety rules. They never mentioned
his name, never credited him, of course not. It's like
they took credit for coming up with these rules themselves.
But it was scary, brother. I mean some of the
(04:05):
stuff they said, you know, they obviously they had their
bullet points, but then some of the things they would
say were just amazing. And this all occurred after this
massive liability warning that you have to click that you
agree or you can't go any further. Basically, it says,
if you need specific advice or expertise about your use
(04:28):
of guns, go to a qualified professional. Yeah, exactly, I
love it.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Okay, So what's really going on here?
Speaker 5 (04:43):
Why is every.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Day on a gun band group wanting to become a
gun training group.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
They want to scare their viewers so badly that no
one is going to carry one, that you're going to
have your gun disassembled and locked up, and you're a
munition in a different room and your magazine's in a
different room. That was clearly the goal. Guns are dangerous,
they should be unloaded, disassembled and locked up. They were
constantly saying, basically, if you're a gun novice, and you
(05:14):
watch this, you're never going to buy a gun, much
less want to carry one if you believe what they're saying.
That is the problem with this crap.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Huh Okay, you know, actually that's logical and starts to
make some sense because on the front end, you're thinking, Okay,
what are they doing?
Speaker 5 (05:32):
What's going on? So what are they doing?
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Are they spewing all of the anti gun nonsense and
so called research at you.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Yeah, and there's even some more in there. I mean,
they brought up racist police officers, and having been in
law enforcement for ten years, I took a huge issue
with that. Jake said, police interactions may be risky for
black gun owners. We want to acknowledge that, gather more
information about polation your area. They're not. That's complete bs
and it's just wrong to say. I mean, they're these
(06:04):
two instructors. They stressed the benefits of building your home
build a home security system with alarm signs, detals, doorbells,
because that'll keep them out until the bad guy's in there.
Their solution then adopted dog. We have a little Boston
terrior here's she's incredible at barking as strangers. I don't
(06:26):
think she's going to disarm anybody. I may be wrong,
So what.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I mean in Look, you've been to a lot of training,
You've done a lot of this stuff. Love it, I
love it, And you have covered these guys for a
long time.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
What is your takeaway on this thing?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Well, it was interesting that they never even mentioned ars
or showed a photo of an AR or any other
semi auto rifle. That's a huge, huge point. I mean,
my home defense gun is an AR. I think it's
they're trying to load this up to scare folks, so
(07:11):
hoping that people will look at this and be so
scared about the Oh my god, the vagaries of home
defense are just so crazy. I don't know what I'm
going to do rather than understand that, you know, sometimes
you got to do what you need to do. But
the fact that they took Colonel Cooper's rules and didn't
even give him an ounce of credit.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
Who is going to take this class?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
I think you're going to find people on the fringe.
On the fringe all the mentions I got of my story,
the story did okay. There's one guy who took all
three and he was able to invest some pretty good
thoughts on it. But you're still paying them money. You know,
you're talking a hundred bucks for some of these classes,
(08:00):
and that's just crazy. I think it's they came up
with a new way of putting out anti gun propaganda.
And I'll give them this, brother, I mean, it works.
It works. If you're a novice, or you don't have somebody,
or you're not listening to your show, you're going to
watch this and you're going to become scared because they're
(08:22):
parenting these little small doses a real gun safety information. Yeah,
I think that's what they're looking at. Anybody with who's
ever fired around down range is going to laugh their
butt off, trust me.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
But at the same time, you know, these guys are
incredibly well funded. I'm sure it's well researched, and you
know they focus group to this thing, and I say, Okay,
this is a way that we can continue our anti
gun message to people who might be on the fence
and thinking, Okay, well maybe we ought to get a gun, honey,
we ought to look into this and let's go to
(08:57):
the gun safe people from every town for gun safety
because we're scared of him anyway, and we wanted to
go to a safe place, and yeah, they would be
susceptible from coming away from that and going WHOA, I'm
sure glad we took that class. We're never getting a gun.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Yeah, or we had a gun. Let's take it completely
apart and we'll hide all the parts in twelve rooms. Yeah,
holy cow, Hey, yeah, it was it was bad.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Let me ask you, I've got to hit a break
here when we come back, could you give us an
update on.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Tate without any doubt?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Happy to, Okay, this is a big story, a continuing story,
and Li's b at the front of this. Let's take
a quick break. I want to come back and get
that because this is one of the biggest miscarriages of
justice about firearms I've ever heard of and got my
fingers crossed as something good to come from it, but
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
I'm Tom Gresham. We'll be right back with more gun.
Speaker 6 (09:57):
Talking, looking for real talk about guns, gear and the
shooting lifestyle. Then tune into Gun Talk Nation. Each week,
your host, me Ryan Gresham, sits down with industry insiders, trainers,
and everyday shooters to bring you the stories, news insights
(10:21):
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pro tips for the range, or the hot topics everyone's
buzzing about. You'll find it here. Subscribe now to gun
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Speaker 9 (11:38):
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prepare you to use your gun and win the fight.
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Speaker 3 (12:11):
Hi, I'm Kim Roady from California. Welcome back to gun Talk,
the place where we celebrate all things shooting, hunting, and
the Second Amendment.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
We're talking with Lee Williams.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
He's known as the gun writer, and you've been the
guy who has been covering and pushing and keeping this
in front of people. The story about Patrick tait Adamiak
is that the correct way his last name.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
It is sir. Yes, I have and I wish Patrick
was out of jail more than anything right now. He's
just starting his third year of his twenty year prison sentence.
Patrick was a parts dealer. He didn't have an FFL.
He was selling gun parts online and was sentence to
(12:57):
twenty years for items that you can buy legal right
now on a website. They don't even need to see
your ID.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
That sounds ridiculous on the face of it. How did
that happen?
Speaker 4 (13:09):
It is the ATF went to a bad source. The
source contacted Patrick, bought a couple of items. AHF raided
his home, went through all his safe They couldn't find
anything illegal, so they brought They bought in this guy
who used to sell guns, and he basically cut up
(13:31):
stuff and charged him with PPSh body, RPGs of it
hanging on the wall, and a toy sten that he
brought in a real stin parts kid and got to
fire one round. I mean they went to work on
this guy to save ATF some from looking foolish. But
(13:56):
my god, he's serving twenty years.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
They were investigating, They weren't trying to find out if
he had committed a crime. They said, Okay, we're going
to put this guy in jail and don't come You
go into that room and don't come out until you
have made something illegal out of what he had.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
And that was ATF Firearms Enforcement Officer Jeffrey Bodell's job.
I mean, he turned RPGs into destructive devices. One hundred
percent legal semi autos in the machine guns. Tate had
handguns that fire from an open bowl. They're super rare,
super expensive, he called the machine and they're legal. You
(14:34):
can buy them online, they'll ship. You know, Sandell basically
insisted we're illegal, are still sold online.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Bring us up to date now.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Well, I talked to his appell at attorney. I know
I'm not a big fan of attorney's period, but I
got to tell you this, Matt LaRosa L Rosier, he's
based in Orlando, is the real deal. He's a fighter.
Got nice picture of him on my website where he's
shooting France's first semi automatic rifle. He's a gun guy.
(15:06):
He's based in like I said, based in Orlando, and
we're going to have He won an appeal one of
the charges they admitted. The appellate court found that the
trial court had screwed up on They charged him twice
for the same thing. Like le Rozier said, it'd be
like charging someone with murder and manslaughter for a death.
(15:29):
So he gets a hearing on that and hopefully, hopefully
he'll be able to bring up some of these other
charges that are completely wrong.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Well, the thing I want people to understand, I've been
covering the ATF for fifty years and I have seen
this happen. I've heard about this happening. I had a
friend who the atf did a raid on his place.
He was a large machine gun dealer, took his guns,
(15:59):
kept him for a year, never charged him with a crime,
just took his guns. And when he went to them
and said, you know, how do I get my guns back,
they said, if you make a stink about this, we're
going to charge you. He finally filed against them, and
the next day they took away. They revoked his license
and charged him with a crime. They just went and
(16:21):
stole like a quarter of a million or a million
dollars worth of guns from him. I mean, they had helicopters,
they had vans, they had news crews coming in behind them.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
It was like Waco all over again.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
That's how they operate. They they when they do these warrants,
they hit people who would gladly let them into their
home and open their sace and show them nothing illegal, right,
They hit it with swat teams. Like these guys are
such bad oberis. They're not. I mean, look obviously, look
what happened in recently to the gentleman who tried to
(16:56):
defend himself because he thought they were bad guys.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
They killed them in his Yeah, Brian Melanowski, he was
the director of the Little Rock, Arkansas Airport, a respective
member of the community. He went to his office every day,
and instead of going to his office and having a
conversation with him, ATF kicks in the door in the
middle of or like six o'clock in the morning. He
thinks it's a home invasion. He gets his gun and
(17:20):
they shoot him and kill him.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
And you know, the one thing that we're seeing, excuse me,
is that ATF is hitting these good people because they're
convinced if you sell guns or gun parts, you must
be doing something illegal. So they get these terrible, terrible informants.
They pay him thousands of dollars and they get nothing,
but they still go and kick these doors in. And
(17:43):
that is the scary part. Nothing Tate has or had
was illegal. I mean, Tom, they even took his queen collection,
which was worth a lot of money.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
There's something else here, Lee and I have decided, after
watching this for decades, is they really like to do
these big, publicize raids on people they know are not
only not guilty, but people that they know are not
(18:14):
going to resist because it's a lot safer to kick
in the doors of good guys rather than go after
bad guys.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, if the AHF is looking for
something to do, go into the inner city and go
after the guys who are have these blocks which is
on that are running down innocent people. Okay, that is
a vital vital this. I mean not even the Navy
brought in the judge brought up the Navy. How they're
going to go take him and knock him down at
(18:45):
E one he was an six and active duty six
and he's.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Going to go into the seals. He was going to
become a Navy seal.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
He had been accepted in the seal school. Yeah, well,
the Navy thought different. He was allowed to serve out
his enlistment behind bars, and he was paid up until
the day that the Navy gave him an honorable discharge.
That's a lot about it. Maybe, all right, question now
he even gets free college.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Tom Jez all right, question for you anyway, And then
we got to go, you've been covering this, and you
also cover stuff that's going on with the Department of
Justice and the Trump administration. Is there a possibility of
getting the President Trump to come in and say, all right,
knock it off, I'm going to pardon this guy.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
Make it go away.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I've heard that same question from more than one hundred people.
I would say he will do it, but he's got
to wait until I think the legal has finished. Right now,
Matt Lerosary could get him out.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Well, look, I appreciate you covering and keeping us up
to date on this. It's one of those stories. It's like,
I hate that we have to talk about this, but
we have to.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Talk about this.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
We do, I know, we agree.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, thank you, sir. You can check out his writing
at his substack. Place where else can they see what
you're up to?
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Org? Go to saf is in Second Amendments Foundation dot org.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
There you go, late, Thank you for covering that. Thank
you for keeping us up to date.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
And I'm sorry you had to sit through an hour
and a half of every town so called gun training.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Man.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
God, it's okay, thank you, Thank you about sympathy.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
All right, you take care? Yeah you know, yeah, okay,
we know what every town's up to. They're pretty sophisticated.
They got some smart people there, and they got a
lot of money. They got Michael Bloomberg's Look, the guy
is worth I don't know, somewhere between fifty and one
hundred billion dollars, and gun control is his thing, and
(20:41):
taking guns away from people, that's his thing. And so
he created every Town for Gun Safety, and he created
the Traces phony news organization that's nothing more than a
propaganda piece for gun control. And so when they come
up with a firearm training organization and you know that
they researched, you know they've looked at it, that it's
(21:03):
part of an overall plan. And so while it's kind
of fun to make fun of it, at the same time,
it would be foolish to not take it seriously.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Okay, what are they doing there? Isn't really good?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
There are actually several, but there's a really good The
biggest gun training organization, you know what it is, the NRA.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
One hundred and.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Twenty five thousand Certified Firearm Instructors, the largest firearm training
organization in the country, maybe in the world. Certainly train
more people than probably all of the law enforcement organizations
put together. So we do have good training out there,
(21:47):
whether it's the NRA, USCCA, I mean, pick your group.
There are a lot of those. And then of course
you've got private organizations. You got gun Site and thunder
Ranch and higher Place range reading studios, But there are
good trainers everywhere. I guess maybe the way for me
to put a bow on this little story is that
(22:08):
maybe it's time to make a commitment or a recommitment
for you personally to go take another class somewhere or
take your first class. If you've never taken a class,
you're in for a treat. It's really a lot of
fun and you will learn a lot. And you know,
if you've already done it, how much fun it is
and how much you learn. And guess what you've forgotten
half of what you're learned in that class, because we do.
(22:28):
It's time to go back sign up for a class. Hey,
this is Tom Gresham. We hope you enjoyed this reloaded version.
All right back with you eighty six six tak gun Clark.
I'm going to get to you in just a minute.
I'll have to just got your message. We're going to
(22:49):
get that typed in. Have them give you a shout
because i'd like to get that range report from you.
What just happened? A lot of interesting stuff going on.
It's a change of season. Next week we do the
fallback thing. We're supposed to get about four to six
inches of snow tonight looks clear out here right now,
(23:09):
but you never know. As we've got a change of season,
we have change of clothing, which means possibly change in
the way you carry a firearm. So you knew I
was going to get there eventually. So when you go
to heavier clothes, more clothes, more layers, it can become
(23:31):
easier to conceal a gun, but it can also become
more complicated depending on what you're wearing. One of the
things I guess I would suggest is as you make
a change, if you say, okay, I'm going to have
a sweater, I'm gonna have a vest. And oh, by
the way, I really like vest for cover garments. I
(23:55):
have a number of fleece vests that work really well.
I can carry a full sized pistol and outside the
waistband holster on my belt and a vest will cover
it up and you just never see the pistol. I've
got a magazine and a mag pouch on one side
and a big pistol on the other side, and nobody
(24:17):
ever notices so, and then you can put a coat
over that whatever. But just a if you get somewhere,
you got to take your coat off. You still have
your vest on which you can wear like anywhere in
a restaurant or some other place. So I'm a big
fan of the fleece insulated whatever you want to do it.
Insulated vest as a cover garment doesn't work in the
(24:40):
hot summer, but boy, this time of year, it's a
really good option. So just you know, some thoughts for
you there. Oh, by the way, when we had al
on earlier, he was asking about his grandson's in skeet shitting.
You also wanted to know what gauge do I recommend
The thing is in skeet you have different gauges that
(25:01):
you shoot.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
There's a twelve gage category I guess you'd call it.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
And you shoot twelve, twenty, twenty eight, and four ten.
There's no sixteen gage, so you know, pick one. You're
gonna be competing against other people shooting the same gage.
But you can use a twenty gauge, for instance, in
a twelve gage event.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
It's not a bad idea because you're going to break.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Pretty much the same number of targets with the twenty
gage as you are with a twelve gage. You're gonna
have less recoil. But I would also say that for
ski shooting, definitely go with low recoil loads, go with
lighter charge weights lower basically lighter, less pellets. I guess
(25:47):
this would be the way to put it. And you
might say, well, geek, if you have fewer pellets, can
you break targets? Yeah, you can. Actually, the reduced recoil
really helped people break more targets. So there you go.
Uh yeah, I'll tell you what. If you've got CROCS number,
go ahead and give him a holler. I give him
a call. We'll get him up here and just we'll
(26:09):
bring him in on the back side of this break.
We're doing this live. We're catching the flys that are
coming by, so we'll grab that as well. Let's do this.
Let's grab Alan online three and bring him in right now. Hey, Alan,
what's in your mind?
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Sir? Well, you were.
Speaker 10 (26:28):
Talking about the ATF and how they they trick these
people and take their guns and stuff. This has been
going on forever. They this whole thing up there at
North Idaho where Reggie Weaver, he was baited into sawing
off a shotgun. They wanted him to have paid him money.
(26:50):
Lived on up there in a cab and had no money,
and they paid him money to cut off the shotgun,
and then, of course he said, they soughted off more
and't proved different. But as it worked out, they ended
up shooting his unarmed wife on the porch, killed her,
and they shot the boy because they shot the dog.
And then they ended up the boy shooting at them,
(27:12):
and they ended up killing the boy too, Sammy.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
They shot Sammy in the back, his teenage boy killed him,
shot Vicky, his wife killed her uy she was holding
the infant. And yeah, they set up Randy Weaver by
getting him coercing him to cut a barrel off on
a shotgun.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
Here's the thing. We're talking about a pipe.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
It's a simple pipe, and if it's eighteen inches long,
it's legal. If it's seventeen and three quarter inches long,
it's illegal. And they got him to cut it off.
And then they said, okay, now we got you. We
want you to inform on this group. And he said,
I'm not going to do that. I'm not even a
part of that group of white separatists or whatever they were.
He said, I don't know those guys. I'm not a
(27:55):
part of our group. They said, well, you got to
go and get in there and he said, I'm just
not going to do it. They said, well, then we're
going to have to rest you. And so that's how
that whole thing started. It was from their coercion to
get him to cut a piece of pipe off. When
you think about it, it's just immoral and ridiculous on
the face of it. But that look, this goes way back.
(28:16):
There are so many stories about this is how ATF
is worked. You know, it wasn't here's the thing. It
wasn't Wayne Lapierre the first dubbed the ATF jack booted thugs.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
You know who it was.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
It was John Dingle, a Democrat congressman who originally came
up with the term jack booted thugs for the ATF.
Going way back, so this has been going on for
forty years, fifty years, whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
So look, I appreciate the call.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I appreciate you bringing that up because that's that's something
that we we have to remember. We have to remember
to remind people this is the history the legacy of
a rogue agency. Yeah, John Dingo was the one that
called him a rogue agency and called him jack booted thugs.
Wasn't the NRA that came up with that he was
(29:06):
a Democrat eight six six talk Gun be right Back.
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Speaker 3 (31:31):
So a few minutes ago, I'm doing the show.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
We're talking with Lee Williams.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
We're talking about this training class from every Time for
gun safety, and I get a text from Clark Opocian,
who of course is a top fires instructor and Second
Amendment activist out in Utah. He says, he says, we
need to talk. I said, well, call Clark, let's find
out what's going on. So Clark, what's going on?
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Hey Tom?
Speaker 12 (31:55):
Tom?
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Tom?
Speaker 12 (31:56):
We infiltrated the Mom's Command Action meeting last week, that's
Wednesday at Salt Lake City, and we intercepted an email. Yeah,
we intercepted an email and found out, well, they're going
to have it as a local library. I checked the
rules and regsit library. They can't kick us out of
even their meeting room that they reserved. So we showed
up in cognito. You know, I'm not wearing my colors
(32:20):
or anything like that, and I went with Rayel Cunningham,
she's the regional director for Women for Gun Rights, and
we just sat in the back and listened. They had
their executive director for Women or for Mom's Demand Action
there and I found I googled it while while she
was there. You know how much she makes. First off,
(32:43):
she spoke for about fifteen minutes and answered three questions
in a litany of basically word salad. If I was
if I was one of their supporters that showed up
and was hoping for some information to you know, go
to the legislature or my representatives with, I would have
felt woefully inadequate with they told just terrible word salad.
This woman goes around, she makes three hundred and fifty
(33:05):
k a year doing this from you know, remember this
is Bloomberg money, the same person that started mayors for
illegal guns and so many of them were indicted and
put in prison for one thing or another. But in fact,
moms demand action. The two main people, the main person
for the state and the regional director that covers Utah.
(33:28):
They're both men, so they and no matter what they say,
they can never be moms. But anyway, how was the turnout?
Twenty three people including us, and so we came with free.
I came with one of my directors, and so eighteen
people decides or no, yeah, eighteen or nineteen people then
(33:49):
plus us so and it lasted about an hour and
a half and they had snacks. But essentially I had
my director who flies under the radar, and he asked
the question, well, well, what kind of what kind of
we need some stats on? You know, this and that
and this. They kept saying every time we wanted data,
(34:09):
every time we wanted stats or facts or something to
look up, they said, no, no, no, no, no, we
don't do stats. We do storytelling. That was their words.
We do storytelling. We influenced via storytelling. So so anyway,
and we know that another very interesting thing they started
talking about safe storage. You know, NFSF has been doing
(34:31):
safe storage for years and years and years. Their mantra
was exactly the same as nssf's, Yet they thought this
was a unique and novel approach. Then with suicide, Utah
is number seven or number eight right now in suicide,
So we're high, they literally said. The regional director literally
(34:51):
said the LDS Church, the Church of Jesus Christ Laraday Saints,
is to blame for the high suicide rate. He said
that part out. We actually have it recorded. So anyway,
they blame, they blame Missouri's crime rate. And they literally said,
you know, thousands of black men are being killed in
(35:13):
Missouri and they said it's because of bad gun laws.
And we said, and I actually had to stop my
director from raising his hands, thing who's killing them? And
why isn't it happening next door? But they literally blamed,
they literally blamed the gun laws. And we have much
(35:34):
more permissive laws in Utahn where third and third list
and homicide.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Quite question for you, were the people who were sitting
in on this were they buying it?
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Were they just soaking all this up and believing it.
Speaker 12 (35:47):
Well, it's hard to tell. They didn't you know, when
you do that, you ask a lot of questions, you
get a lot of audience involvement. There were probably five
questions over this hour and a half and that is it.
So I mean, and you know what, we accounted for
two of those questions too.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
So anyway, call to actions.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
So I kind of like, therefore we're all going to
go out and do this thing.
Speaker 12 (36:13):
Nope, Nope, there was go to the website, sign up
and their their mantra would sign up and show up.
Oh the other thing is they literally said the quiet
part out loud. They said, are red shirts and sometimes
moms command actions are not being received well even among
(36:34):
they didn't say democrats, but even among our people. And
so now they've switched to the same exact mantra. But
now they're doing this be smart, their training program, be smart,
and they're wearing green shirts. So that so that when
they see the red shirts, they don't you know, they
don't get people running from them. But you know they're
(36:56):
going to use They set out loud that they want
to use the Michigan shooting as a way to influence churches, uh,
get into what they do, and that.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Yeah, they take a tragedy and they use that for
political gain. I mean that is how they work. And
like you say, and they don't really care about the
actual numbers. Are is crime going up? Is crime going down?
Doesn't matter, Just tell a story that makes people feel
bad and then say, if you don't want to feel
bad about that kind of thing, you need to have
more gun control loss.
Speaker 12 (37:27):
Yep, somebody did ask about They actually brought up the
NRA and other pro gun training organizations. This was, you know,
one of their followers, and the regional director said, oh no,
the NRA's idea of safe storage is just hide it
under a mattress. And their idea of firearm training is
just shoot everybody. And we have that on recording to.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Oh jeez, I said that, I'm not surprised. Look that
they lie for a living. That's what they do. I'm
glad that you got to get in there. You slipped
in and got I'm sure you recorded the whole thing. Fascinating,
but it's also interesting that they had so few people.
It's like there's really nobody there. There's no impact. I
think they are quickly becoming irrelevant.
Speaker 12 (38:11):
Yeah, yeah, and the key thing is irrelevant even among
their own people, their own people are running from them,
and you know, and the legislators are so yeah, there
you go.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Clark Aposha, thank you for bringing us up to date
on that. Well done. You guys are doing great work
out there.
Speaker 12 (38:33):
Thanks Tom.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Alrighty, you take care. Yeah wow.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Kind of not surprised that even among the Democrats they're
not paying attention to the rabbit anti gunners, the gun banners.
I mean, look, they're gun banners, and they'll say that,
they'll actually come out with that, and the fact that
they're saying, well, you know they are already. They just say,
shoot everybody that's been their whole dealers, been raised those
(39:00):
us for everybody.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
No, never said that, never said to you to everybody, and.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Certainly never said to store your gun under a mattress
for safe storage.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
For heaven's sakes, you know, it's the case like, okay.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
If you're in control of your gun, that's one thing,
and if you're not, you're not there.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
Yeah, you need to have it stored safely.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
N NSSF have both said that for many years. Just
thinking about that last report we had from Clark epotion,
they infiltrated a meeting of the gun banners. The Mom's
(39:41):
Demand Action Group. They're the ones who show up at
legislators legislatures and they have their red shirts on and
they sit there and yeah, look it makes an impact
that it's good effect for the cameras.
Speaker 5 (39:58):
I like the idea.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I've been filtrating these groups and you know, and you
can join those groups I have. I've joined every town
and Mom's Demand and get their newsletters and get the
email and find out when they're going to have a meeting,
and go to the meeting. Take a couple of your friends,
don't sit together, and maybe spread out and maybe each
of you you limit yourself to one question each so
(40:22):
it doesn't look like you're gaging it up on them.
And you're sitting in different places, and you ask a
question very innocently, you know, well, what are women supposed
to do when they're vulnerable and they're out on the
street and there's nobody there to take care of them?
(40:42):
What do we recommend? And just throw questions like that
out there, basically just tossing monkey wrenches into the whole thing.
I get it that you're thinking, well, that's not going
to be effective, that's not going to do anything. You
know what we would do it'd be entertaining and it
(41:03):
would eventually, probably quickly, cause them to make a change
in what they do. I don't know if this meeting
is like a fundraiser. I don't know if they even
care about fundraising that much. Honestly, when they've got Bloomberg
Bucks behind them, maybe they don't need the money. You
even wonder why are you even having a meeting, And
(41:24):
maybe it's just because we got to, you know, feed
the folks out there, keep them interested so that when
we want them to show up at the legislature they will.
But I kind of like the idea, you and two
of your buddies, particularly women, if you can wives, girlfriends, whatever, sisters,
(41:45):
bring them with you and filtrate the meeting, sit at
different places. Oh, that would be a good range report
for gun talk. If you do that, you get some
serious out of boys and added girls on that one
we can I like this idea. This is getting to
be kind of a fun Would it be too much
(42:08):
to say this is enemy action? Of course it is.
They want to stomp out our constitutional rights. They want
to stomp out the rights that are God given. Because
the Second Amendment is not a right granted to us
by the Constitution.
Speaker 5 (42:25):
It's a right.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
There's guaranteed by the Constitution. The Second Amendment simply tells Congress,
you have to keep your hands off of our guns.
The right to keep in bear arms shall not be infringed.
It doesn't grant us a right. It simply tells the government,
(42:48):
we already have this right, and you've got to leave
it alone. These people want to eliminate this right. They
want to eliminate your ability to protect yourself and your family.
They openly say it should be all be illegal for
you to protect yourself and your family. And they make
(43:12):
pretty good strides in some places to get people prosecuted
when they do, in fact protect themselves. So I have
no problem in filtrating their meetings and finding out what
they're doing.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
That's just smart.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
If you want to talk about that, or you want
to talk about your guns, give me a holler right now.
We'll blow it right into the after show. Ete six'
six talk gun in the meantime this. Week check it.
Out go to xSex dot. Com that's The Elon musk
thing Formerly. TWITTER i am at Gun talk over. There
i'll be posting a number of things with updates to
the stories that we're talking about, Here so if you
(43:49):
want to keep, up you want to know what's going,
on follow me over on, next and follow us on
all the social media platforms because gun talk is everywhere
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