November 23, 2025 • 44 mins
In This Hour:
-- U.S. SOCOM awards a contract for a new rifle. Mike Milhalski explains how a Texas gun company, Sons Of Liberty Gun Works, got this coveted contract and reveals whether those outside the military will be able to buy one.
-- How to survive a road rage attack.
-- Lightweight rifles are popular, but they require special techniques for full accuracy.
Gun Talk 11.23.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- U.S. SOCOM awards a contract for a new rifle. Mike Milhalski explains how a Texas gun company, Sons Of Liberty Gun Works, got this coveted contract and reveals whether those outside the military will be able to buy one.
-- How to survive a road rage attack.
-- Lightweight rifles are popular, but they require special techniques for full accuracy.
Gun Talk 11.23.25 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 3 (00:31):
All right, beckybody here a six six talk gun or
Tom Talkgun. That's the number. You can join me right here.
I'm Tom Gresham and this is gun Talk. We're going
to be talking about, well, some cool stuff going on
in just a few minutes. Were we talk about something
that just happened. A Texas based company just landed a contract.
It's really impressive and there's some things to learn about this.
(00:53):
I got a question earlier. Somebody was saying, I want
to buy my first AR fifteen. What should I get? Well,
we'll talk about just a few minutes. It's an interesting question.
Here's the thought for you, the AR fifteen or the
platform itself. You'll hear the gun banner say, oh yeah,
these new guns are high capacity, fast shooting.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Oh, the AR fifteen platform is it's I think it's
seventy right, that's seventy years old, hardly.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
New, been around a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It really is just a rifle, semi automatic in the
form that we get. You know who used the semi
automatic rifle to hunt with President Teddy Roosevelt.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
A long time ago, so we get that.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
We'll talk about ars in just a few minutes. Also
question for you in the I talk about being prepared
all the time. You know, the drill, and I've always
got a gun at least with me. But one of
the things we talk about a good bit and I'd
like to throw this out and get your take. See
if you do this, assuming you are doing EDC every daycare,
(02:09):
you're carrying a handgun for self protection, do you regularly
or even ever have what we you've missed a recall,
A truck gun, a gun for your vehicle, A long
gun of some sort, could be well, it might be
an AR pistol, but it might be a rifle of
some sort, could be an AR, could be a lever action,
(02:30):
could be something else. Do you ever carry a gun
in your vehicle? A longer gun. You know it's been
to set people joke and say, you know, the handgun
is much to carry, so you can fight your way
back to the long gun. To rifle you shouldn't put
down in the first place. It could be maybe, So
tell you what, take a quick break. Here we come back.
We got some news about an ar and a Texas company.
(02:52):
They're doing huge things. You want to hear this one.
I'm Tom Gresham. This is Gun Talk.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
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(03:58):
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Speaker 7 (04:00):
That's gun talk dot com.
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(04:28):
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Speaker 3 (04:36):
Put all your gear on that you carry and then
roll around on the ground. Now, get up all your
gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not going
to have in a fight.
Speaker 9 (04:43):
Gun Talks should be in your podcast feed. Check out
gun talk Nation.
Speaker 10 (04:47):
What's it like to be blown up?
Speaker 11 (04:49):
You know, if it's like C four, it's almost like.
Speaker 9 (04:51):
A smack hunting. Yeah, we talk about that too.
Speaker 10 (04:55):
On your crosshairs, I like a thin crosshair.
Speaker 9 (04:58):
AJE, you're really dating yourself by calling things cross.
Speaker 10 (05:00):
Hairs eureredical whatever.
Speaker 9 (05:02):
Have some fun and stay informed with the gun Talk podcast.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Hi, y'all, this is aw R. Hawkins from brid Barr News.
Welcome back to gun Talk.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And welcome back to gun Talk. Is exactly correct. I'm
Tom Gresham. The number here is well just call me
a Tom Talk gun Now.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Just got the.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
News this week. This is a big deal. There's a
company in Texas. It's kind of the little company that
could that just got a contract. Well, you know what,
Rather than me tell you about it, let's be again.
Mike Mihawsky is the founder of Sons of Liberty Gun
Works down in Texas. Hey, Mike, how are you, sir?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Hey?
Speaker 12 (05:47):
Good, good, sir. Good to talk to you again.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Man, all right, So got the news here.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Sons of Liberty gun Works is awarded the us SO
COMM contract for the Mark one rifle. So COM being
Special Operations Command. And how did that happen?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
I mean, and what kind.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Of trials do they put you through before they'll accept
your rifle?
Speaker 12 (06:08):
So, to be specific, it's a it's a it's it's
a unit in SOCOM. I cannot say which exact unit
it is, but I can say I believe is probably
one of the most coveted contracts in the world. And
this is a kind of unit that can have anything
in the world they want, uh so to be selected
(06:29):
for that, it's it's just it's surreal. Uh To answer
your question for the trials, I mean, this is a
it's like a two year process. There's operator evil and
then it has to go to the both of the
most sophisticated weapons testing laboratories in the country. Uh So
you're going through Craine, You're going through Army Research Lab
(06:53):
and the testing and validation on those systems is is
there a bit of what you would think it is
that men, that weapon has to work and negative forty degrees,
it has to work, you know, over the beach, it
has to work in you know, incredible environmental conditions with
uh you know, debris and the just incredible round counts,
(07:17):
endurance service, lifelong components. But not only does the gun
have to be reliable, it also has to be very shootable,
it has to be carriable. There's a lot that goes
into making weapons at that level for that end user.
It's not reliability is where you start. Then it just
keeps going from there.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
And just for those who are scratching their heads about
what you just said, and you can't say it, I'm
not gonna say it. But let's just say that this
is a unit that might have a number attached to
it that people might know. I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
How's that.
Speaker 12 (07:50):
I'm not saying I didn't I'm.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Not you didn't say, you didn't say a thing. Fighter,
just just saying that, you know, just there it is,
so all right. Look, they're obvious for those of us
who don't make AR fifteens and you you have been
working with law enforcement and military units for years and years.
That is your thing, man, making the rifles that these
(08:12):
people need to go places, do things to protect themselves
and other people.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
But a lot of us look at an AR. Look
it's an AR.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
They all look alike. How do I know what the
difference is between years and a five hundred dollars one?
Speaker 12 (08:26):
Well, if you're talking specifically about the mark one right
the start there for a second. This is the first
rifle that was really developed from the ground up to
incorporate all of the visual augmentation systems that go on
the rifle. So at this level, you know, there's every
single inch of real estate on that rifle is probably
(08:47):
being used by something to either see at night, aim
at night, thermal magnifiers so on and so forth, and
all the switches and things that control that. So building
the weapon do preemptively incorporate. That was a big deal
because the visual augmentation systems contribute to the lethality of
the system as much as you know, I kind of
(09:09):
joke when you look at the costs of the stuff
that goes on top of the gun, the gun almost
feels like the clip on the rifle.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah electronic, Yeah, they got it or something.
Speaker 12 (09:23):
Yeah, right, right right, So, but you know, the weapon
also has to be extremely shootable, that has to be
very flat tracking while still being very reliable, and that's challenging.
Most of the time. When you seek reliability, you give
up a little bit of shootability. The challenge here was
to maintain both and and do it all under six pounds.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Oh really, Yeah, okay, I mean we should obvious obvious,
but we should say, yours is the select fire, so
it will go full auto.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
So they get to just.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Run, yeah, the version obviously, and they run these things
until they glow.
Speaker 12 (10:06):
For the Yeah. I mean, perhaps not in a real
world scenario, because I mean some of the you know,
some of the people using this rifle, they truly employ
it in a surgical way. But but it's the it's
the tens and tens of thousands of rounds of training
that the weapon must be able to endear for perhaps
(10:27):
those two perfect shots in the real world.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
M M.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
That makes sense because, as we say, they go places
and do things interesting and most of the time they
can't come back and talk about it.
Speaker 13 (10:37):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
The Mark one rifle, uh, is that available in a
civilian version that that I could buy.
Speaker 12 (10:47):
Absolutely everything we've ever developed for any type of government
entity we make available to the commercial market because ultimately
I got into this business to arm the American citizens.
Art trajectory is a company is interesting. I think most
of them, most of the brands that you're familiar with
and associate with military use that is almost their primary
(11:09):
function was going after military contracts. We've always we've always
specifically catered to the commercial civilian market, and I've been
in line with the Second Amendment. And it just so
happens that we were discovered and ultimately were successful and
prevailed at the at the highest levels they are so
like we got there backwards. Most companies go after those
(11:32):
kinds of contracts and then it kind of trickles down
to the commercial market, whereas our trajectory was the exact opposite.
I'm proud of that.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
You are, in my estimation, one of the most strident
avid Second Amendment supporters I've ever known. Everything about what
you do with your company and personally is about the
Second Amendment and making sure that US citizens have the
right given bear arms, and that kind of permeate your
(12:01):
entire company.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
When did you get started?
Speaker 12 (12:05):
So the concept started in my garage a little over
eleven years. Are going to spend a wild, wild eleven years.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
That's unbelievable that in only eleven years that you just
got this contract, got selected by this unit, and you
made a point. I want to make sure we get
this out there. They can literally buy anything they want,
and not just made in America. They can go anywhere
and get Belgium made or other from any country, and
they do they test everything that's right.
Speaker 12 (12:35):
And what's interesting, because people have asked me this question
or people that are skeptical of this particular rifle's performance
and some of the claims made around it, what they
don't understand is that if this if something that, if
something that did this already existed, they would just go
buy it. We had to take indiuser feedback from the
last twenty years of constant warfare in six a lot
(13:00):
of real problems that were observed from you know, one
thing or another, whether it was a performance thing or
an interface thing or whatever. You know. We had to
design the gun to address all of the problems historically
that they've seen with these weapons systems, and we had
to also preemptively build the gun for where like the
(13:20):
next ten years is going to look like the ammunition
is changing, optics and other types of accessories are changing.
So not only are you having to fix the problems
of the past, you're having to preemptively build the direction
things are going. And I can tell you we are
in our renaissance period right now. For small arms. I'd
say that the next five years are going to be
as significant in my opinion as the invention of rifling
(13:44):
or the invention of the cartridge. Where you see the
lethality leap that's going to happen in the next couple
of years across small arms is very interesting.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Is that going to be because of adopting the high
pressure cartridges that are not just coming, they're already online.
And the correlated to that that add on is will
this rifle platform take these higher pressure cartridges?
Speaker 12 (14:13):
The Mark one was preemptively developed around high pressure ammo
and this and this is not this is open source.
I mean people need to look at the seven. People
can go look at the seven back country and look
at some of the other you know, case technology that's
out there. This is coming. There's no putting the genie
back in the bottle. Once this performance is understood by
(14:34):
the commercial market, it's going to every all ammunition is
going to eventually look like this. And what's going to
happen is when you're getting adequate velocities out of smaller
and smaller guns, it's going to force optics to become smaller,
it's going to become force small thermals to become more powerful.
It's gonna it's going to just change the way you
(14:55):
you use a rifle. I mean, if you're going on
a sheep hunt and you know, maybe you don't need
to twenty eight inch barrel anymore. Maybe you're getting hypervelocities
as something much smaller and lighter. I mean, it's the
way it's going to translate down to the commercial and
hunting markets. It's just this is the future. It's here
and it's just not quite understood yet by the commercial market.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I would agree, because I mean I know that the
backcounts of similarly in the back country operates at eighty
thousand PSI. I have talked to m O and gun companies.
I say, look in research, we're working with cartridges that
run up at one hundred and twenty thousand psi, which
is unbelievable to me.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Man, And I know you.
Speaker 12 (15:33):
Yeah, yeah, I have to yeah, I have to stop
before I get in trouble. But what I will say, well,
I will say that to supplement that is that if
they're selling that cartridge to the commercial market, that's because
it's well well under the yield strength of that case.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, I know that. You know things you can't talk
about because you work in that class of wied world.
Not good bed faaradock, all right, So I help me
with that. Somebody says, I want to buy my fir
ar and I can buy one at five hundred dollars,
or I can buy and you have I mean, this
is what like a twenty five hundred dollars rifle, but
you actually have rifles you make a retail for what
(16:11):
twelve thirteen hundred bucks something like that. Why should somebody,
why should somebody start at that level rather than the
super base level.
Speaker 12 (16:22):
Well, what I would say is you like, I personally
like to buy things that that almost that exceed my
needs because I would imagine that I will outgrow. And
so I mean what I would do is I would
look into I mean, fundamentally, you want a well made,
reliable weapon that has boring predictability of performance, boringly predictable performance, right,
(16:50):
And I don't think that you can achieve that in
an AR under about the thirteen hundred dollars mark. You
just can't. Because under thirteen hundred dollars. And this is
just me being in industry for the last you know,
eleven years, and not just that as an armor teaching
thousands of students across the country, law enforcements and civilian
seeing what's out there. Ninety five percent of the rifles
(17:12):
on the market would not meet the basic minimum for
you know, a work rifle. So one undred, twelve hundred bucks,
thirty hundred bucks, You're you're going to be sacrificing materials
of some kind. You're going to be sacrificing QC. There's
going to be some deficiency. But if you're buying your
first rifle, I mean kind of look at what you
want to achieve with it. If this is a home
defense rifle, then you know there's a certain level, there's
(17:34):
certain parameters that you want to keep with. And if
this is a hunting rifle, then obviously you know you
want to look at that. And if you're needing something
a bit more sophisticated, and look at weapons that are
actually tailored to do those sophisticated things. And I know
that's a very vague, very vague answer, but I would
first start off with what am I trying to achieve
(17:55):
and then kind of work it backwards.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
You know, what you're saying, Mike, is that you need
to become an educated consumer because this is not a
just because they all look alike doesn't mean they all
are alike. And you know, if you've got to get
something that works for you, you better know something.
Speaker 12 (18:10):
About them for absolutely, And unfortunately I can tell you
that you know in certain places on the Internet, they're
they're terrible sources for for uh validated information. You know,
I would I would I would look to like I
would probably look to I would defer to expertise and
(18:31):
not necessarily someone who sells guns. Don't come to me
because if I think I'm biasedes I sell guns. But
go look at what your top instructors are using and recommending.
Go look at what you know the people who shoot
a lot with their recommending. You remember, Sons Liberty grew
to an international company. We're in fourteen countries in eleven years,
(18:52):
and we never spent a dollar in marketing. We grew
through word of mouth. I'm very proud of that. So
to me, like that peer to peer recoon mandation is
what helped us. If you're interested in a good defensive rifle,
talk to people who are actual, you know, recognized instructors
or have some level of expertise, and they put their
(19:12):
real name to their opinions, not you know, colwn Shop
six ninety seven on ready. I'm saying someone that is
willing to sign their actual name to their Yes, they'll
find that person.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
And Sons Celeberty gun works as the name of the company.
You're making them right there in San Antonio, Texas.
Speaker 12 (19:34):
Probably made in San Antonio, Texas homely almost.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
That is so cool, Mike, Mike Pihoski, I am so
proud to know you, and this is just an amazing achievement.
In eleven years, you have gone from zero to hero.
It is unbelievable what you're doing with this whole line.
I can't wait to see what you do next. Man,
can I know you're busy.
Speaker 12 (19:53):
It's going to be a fun couple of years.
Speaker 11 (19:55):
Tom.
Speaker 12 (19:56):
Thanks for the support as always for years. Man, in
anytime you have a slot and you.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Call me, all right, we'll do that, sir. I appreciate it. Congratulates.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I'm going to send people over to Sons of LIBERTYGW
dot com. That's for Gunworks, Sons Lilibery gun Works as
the name of the company. Mike Mahoski, thank you, so.
I appreciate that. You have yourself for a great rest
of the week.
Speaker 12 (20:16):
Take it to you, sir.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
All right, amazing stuff of a great information, great advice
choosing an AR because I mean you really can't. Actually
I see him at three ninety nine. Is it three
ninety nine, three hundred and ninety nine dollars we're talking
about AR? Is that worth buying? Maybe if you say
that's what I can afford, Okay, maybe you get yourself
(20:38):
into it. I think a lot of times, you can't
fully appreciate the higher quality of or really anything until
you get into that world.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
You can get a really.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Cheap nineteen eleven and then you say, yeah, but that's nice,
but wow, these other ones are really nicer. But I
didn't I didn't understand that. I didn't appreciate that until
I got into it. The other, of course, is to say,
you know what, I know the whole buy one, you know,
buy once, cry once deal, pay a little bit more
(21:11):
on the front end, and I'm going to be happy.
I personally know. Every time I try to go cheap,
I'm sorry, just I know how that works. So interesting information.
So if you go over and check it out, then
mark one rifle and they've got some others over there
as well. So what's today are fifteen good for?
Speaker 7 (21:31):
Ah?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Well, almost anything a rifle would be good for, certainly
hunting target, shooting out to a mile. Yeah, depends on
the cartridge. And you can change them in a lot
of different things. Their modular you can customize them, do
whatever you want to. If you want to build your own,
you can certainly do that, or you could add parts
or do all sorts of stuff to it. And of
course if you just want a home defense gun, man,
(21:54):
I can't think of one that's better than an AAR
fifteen platform. Maybe just throw a red dot on it
and call it good. The main thing is get it
and learn to use it. Mike mentioned they do training
as well, and there are a lot of places you can
go to get a good training with an AR.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
It's not intuitive, and.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
A lot of the stuff you think you would normally
do with it or probably are wrong or at least
not particularly efficient. So a real good carving class with
an AR fifteen not only is fun, but you learn a.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Lot with it. All right, Number here is eight pick six,
Talk gun? What's on your mind?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
We're just having fun sitting around shooting the freeze.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Talk about guns.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Glad you could be here. I'm Tom Gresham. I mean
we really are just talking about this and that, and
we're at the point where we just kind of bounce
around and I drive part of the conversation for part
of the show, and then the rest of the time
you get to drive the conversation wherever you want it
to go. So what's on your mind? What do you
want to talk about? Let's see, Oh John called in,
(23:03):
he said, Reno Nevada, We're gonna talk about suppressors.
Speaker 13 (23:06):
Hey, John, Hey, how's it going well?
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Excellent? So what's on your mind?
Speaker 14 (23:12):
Yeah, just real quick, I just wanted to bring up
the new suppressor laws that are coming out January one,
And I'm wondering, should I pay the two hundred dollars
now and get my suppressor in the next couple of
days or should I wait and save myself to our bucks?
But what kind of timeframes can I expect to wait?
Speaker 12 (23:30):
Is it going to be back to six to eight
months before I can get my suppressor?
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Oh? I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
But there's another factor here, and that is that a
lot of the companies making suppressors are selling suppressors now.
They don't want you to wait, they want you to
buy right now. So what they're doing is they are
paying the two hundred dollars tax for you today so
you don't have to wait until the end of the
year when the tax goes away. And so I mean
(23:57):
basically they're just saying, look, if we don't do this,
people are going to sit here wait till the.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
End of the year. We won't have any sales.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
So they figured it out and whether it's Silence or
Central or other companies everywhere I look. Right now, there's
the pressure. Companies are saying we will pay the tax
for you. I would argue, and you know, I hadn't
really thought about it, but you may be right. We
may get a flood of people after the turn into
twenty twenty six, when the tax officially goes away, the
(24:26):
two hundred dollars tax. We could have get a lot
of people who say, yeah, now's the time, and all
of a sudden the market gets flooded and maybe even
the supply goes down. You can't find one I would
buy it.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Now or me?
Speaker 12 (24:39):
Okay, great, thanks, great.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Good deal, Good luck with it. Let me know what
you end up with. Okay, we'll do all right, sounds good.
Let's go talk to Jim. He is in Louisiana. Hey Jim,
you're on gun Dog. How can we help you?
Speaker 15 (24:54):
Oh? Yeah, sir, miss the Tom Well, me and my
little brother, old guys at a late sixty and all,
and you know, clean records buying guns on our life.
You know what, we're contractors. And little brother got all
beat up in life. He's all broken in pain, and
he got a medical marijuana license. And now he don't
want to buy a gun. He wants me to go
buy a gun for birthday. Hello, No, I don't know
(25:17):
about all this. You know, what should he do? He's
scared now to buy a gun. He didn't realize. He
just does it after work, you know, when he drinks
his alcohol and you know he don't drive or nothing.
Speaker 12 (25:27):
I go shooting range.
Speaker 15 (25:28):
When he's all on it. You know, he's the way
he gets home after work and you know, a responsible
man and he's just wondering what to do now.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Okay, So let me explain with people are saying, what
are we talking about here? According to federal law, now
state law, you can get a medical marijuana card and
you're perfectly illegal. The Fed say that that is still illegal.
Using marijuana is still illegal, and that being the case,
you cannot own a gun if you're a medical old
(25:57):
marijuana card holder or if you're using marijuana. That is
all up in the air right now because there is
a major lawsuit working his way to the Supreme Court
about this, because they're saying, hey, you can't take away
people's second amma, right just because they're using marijuana.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
And yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
A lot of people that get great relief from pain,
but with gummies or marijuana cannabis of some form or another.
So you know that's super popular and quite legal in
a lot of states. I'm sorry to tell you that
I don't know what he should do. He might here's
(26:38):
what you might want to do if if you could say, look,
just hold off for a few months, dude, because if
the Supreme Court takes this case, and I think they're
very well made, and if they rule that it's unconstitutional
to block him from buying or owning a gun, then
he's good to go. But we would be looking at
(26:58):
probably June of next year. If they take the case
and get it argued. It'd be June of next year
before we get that decision. Now, you also brought out
something else. If he says, Okay, can you buy this
gun for me? Ooh, I would be real careful about
that one.
Speaker 12 (27:15):
No.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yeah, because if he's prohibited, and he actually technically is prohibited,
and you buy a gun for him and he's a
prohibited person, that could put you in a world to hurt.
I would just say, look, you already got a bunch
of guns. I know he does because I know you do,
and just say look, just sit on for right now,
let's wait until next summer and see how this all
(27:39):
shakes out. It's not what anybody wants to hear, but
right now it's the best I got with what information
I have. Yeah, right, And those whore say, well, you
can't buy a gun. No, actually, legally you can't own
a gun if you are Americal marijuana user. I mean
(28:00):
it's illegal for you to even own a gun, not
just buy a gun. So just say and understand what
the law is. Okay, So there it is, and I'll
keep you posted if you keep a listening as soon
as we have any information, and I'll put it out
here for you.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Okay.
Speaker 11 (28:14):
I appreciate it, all right, you take care.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
I appreciate the call. It's a mess, that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
And it doesn't make any sense that marijuana use is
legal in a lot of states and yet it's still
a federal crime. And so that's got to get changed.
They got to get that sorted out, to find some
kind of I don't know what you'd say that it's
(28:42):
got to be the same, right, you can't have it
legal under state law and illegal under federal law, which
you're saying, well, okay, but I got the card the
state issues to be the card or it's legal to
do this in this state, but the fat say it's not.
And while you may say, well, I'm okay with that.
(29:02):
I'll take my chances, and then you say, yeah, but
you know what, if you fill out the forty four
to seventy three for them when you're buying a gun
and you say you're not a user of marijuana, you're
falsified that. It's just like I said, it's a mess.
That's what it is. So we'll keep you posted on that.
There are actually several cases. This is the most amazing
(29:25):
year maybe for the Supreme Court. They've already taken two
second amendic cases and they have I think it's thirty
or forty other cases. The second memic cases have been
you know, people are trying to get them to grant
cert on it.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
They're not going to take all those.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
They might take one or two more, but that would
be amazing because most years they don't take any second
a medic cases. If they end up taking three or
maybe even four second amendic cases, it would be astounding
to see what happens. I mean, and I think it's
likely somewhere between possible and likely. If they take at
least one more, we end up with three gun cases
(30:05):
in this Supreme Court. It'd be amazing if they do that.
We'll keep your post on that as well. All right,
our number here eight sixty six Talk gun. I'm Tom
greshould be right back with more gun talk.
Speaker 16 (30:26):
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Speaker 9 (30:29):
Your entry to.
Speaker 16 (30:30):
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Speaker 4 (30:57):
PETERA.
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(31:20):
visiting Timney's website Timney Triggers dot Com.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Put all your gear on that you carry and then
roll around on the ground. Now, get up all your
gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not gonna
have in a fight.
Speaker 9 (31:33):
Gun Talks should be in your podcast feed. Check out
gun talk Nation. What's it like to be blown up?
Speaker 12 (31:38):
You know?
Speaker 9 (31:39):
If it's like C four, it's almost like a smack hunting. Yeah,
we talk about that too.
Speaker 10 (31:44):
On your crosshairs, I like a thin crosshair, Aje.
Speaker 9 (31:48):
You're really dating yourself by calling things cross hairs.
Speaker 10 (31:50):
You'reredical whatever.
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Have some fun and stay informed with the gun Talk podcast.
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(32:19):
at gun talk dot com.
Speaker 7 (32:21):
That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
All right, let's go straight to the phones. Craigs with
us online one out of Kousbe, Oregon. Hey Craig, what
you got there?
Speaker 4 (32:42):
Man?
Speaker 13 (32:44):
Well, I need a recommendation? Is a sal two pistol
that you know? I can do some plunking with and
got a lot of arments around where I live, so
I can maybe, but I just you know, I just
I remember I had a the smith and lesson that
(33:05):
was kind of framed off was nine to eleven design
many many years ago, and you know it helped with
my with my owner shooting. So right, what do you
what do you think?
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Well, what center fire gun? Are you trying to get
an air gun that's like that?
Speaker 13 (33:25):
All kind of like my Rougar nine or like my
little macrorofs some some along those lines.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Okay, I was There's a website that I would say,
go to because they got everything. It's Pyramid Air. Let
me get you the spelling because the spelling is critical
on this.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
It's p y it's all wise than Pyramid Air.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Uh so yeah, it's uh to p y r a
m y d air Pyramid Air dot com. And you
look at the CO two pistols and I'm looking right now,
and they've got like pretty much everything, SIGs and Bretta's
and smiths and you know, ninety eleven's and revolvers and
(34:09):
god seems like pretty much anybody who ever made a pistol,
they've got an air gun version of it.
Speaker 13 (34:15):
So there we go.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Okay, well, you know, are you going to use it?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
And let me just suggest this too if you haven't
thought about it, if you have it, I don't know
if you carry a gun for self defense, but man,
an air gun is a great way to train because
you can get when it fits your holster and just
you can shoot all you want to and do it safely.
And so you know, I just thought for in addition
to shooting the VIRONM, it's just.
Speaker 13 (34:36):
A way of practicing exactly exactly. That's that was my thought.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
All right, good deal, Well, good luck with you, Greg.
Speaker 13 (34:44):
We'll thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
You bet.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I love the idea of doing some training with the
CO two pistol and air gun pelagun actually bb gun
probably Actually I'm looking on the Pyramid Air website. They've
got a I think they're how to build an indoor
shooting range. DIY do it yourself indoor range. One thing
about BB's I can tell you from experience when I
(35:10):
was a kid. You need something that traps BB's because
they are hard, they're steel, and they bounce. Having had
one come back and smacked me right in the forehead
after it bounced off of a piece of wood aboard.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
I shot that.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Ah, okay, let's be more careful with that. There are
a lot of ways you could do it. You could
do it like with a heavy piece of canvas. That's
your backstop that catches them, and you can actually drape
it so that the BB's hit that and they roll down
and you can collect them at the bottom. We used
to a long time ago, we made a target out
(35:47):
of a large cardboard box and stuffed it full of
wadded up newspapers and then would just tape the target
onto that and we would shoot that in our house
going down the hallway, and both of our kids grew
up knowing that you would yell out, okay, you know,
range is hot. Basically, don't come in the hallway and
(36:08):
we're shooting, and that worked very well. The only problem
with that setup is you got to make sure you
don't miss the box.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Whatever did.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
But obviously if you missed the box, now the BB's
flying down the hallway and hitting the door or something.
So if you don't have an adult type BB gun,
coee you two air gun, let me recommend you know what,
holiday season's here, not just coming, it's here now. It
(36:40):
would be a really good time. Oh, let me do
this too. I'm gonna click ex keep me. I'm shopping
while I'm talking to you. Okay, Holiday gift guy, they
got some Black Friday specials going on Pyramid Air.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Always check that out. I would.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
I would say, go take a look. I think you'd
like it. Oh, let's grab a range report here. Nathan's
on two out of Troy r Nathan, you got a
range report?
Speaker 4 (37:02):
What you shooting?
Speaker 11 (37:04):
I just picked up a how a mini action rifle
in three point fifty legend.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
Oh, and I've been having.
Speaker 11 (37:11):
Yeah, I've been having a time trying to figure out
what am I'm going to shoot through it and took
it out to the range with four different loads, and
I was getting inch and a half to two inch groups.
But it's supposed to have a subam away guarantee, Okay.
So I was trying to figure out what was going
(37:35):
on with it, and eventually I figured out that changing
the shoulder pressure of the stock pressed into my shoulder
could move the point of impact about an inch at
one hundred yards.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Oh, well, you know what's going on.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
You've got a really lightweight.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Rifle and it will bounce around depending on the pressure
like against your shoulder, or also the pressure on the rest,
the rifle rest you've got it on. I find with
lightweight rifles, if you have more padding underneath the rifle
on the rifle rest, maybe even a folded.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Up towel, that helps.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
But yeah, but yeah, if you have different amounts of
pressure on your shoulder or the way you grip the
gun on a lightweight rifle like that, they can really
throw it off and mess up your accuracy.
Speaker 4 (38:25):
But do you like the rifle overall?
Speaker 11 (38:28):
I do like it?
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Yes, I love that.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
How a media rifle, that boltax rifle is just sweet,
available in a lot of different calories and cartridges. But
the three fifty legend, what a great idea. So that's terrific,
But no, thank you of that range report. The different
pressures of how much pressure you're putting on the rifle,
putting against your shoulder, was moving point of impact as
(38:52):
much as an inch, consistency, same pressure whether it's light
or heavy, same pressure as you when you're grabbed in
the grip, same pressure as you're holding the fore end.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
If you're doing that.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
That consistency equates to accuracy.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
The accuracy shooters.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
All know that, and boy, it is even more important
when you have a super lightweight rifle.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
All right, be right back.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah, that's the time of year again, and that it
is time for looking for gifts for everybody, maybe even
for yourself. I was over at my sister's place in
Washington State a few days ago, and in the process
of talking, I happened to pull out a flashlight. She
was amazed. I said, well, that's really something. Oh that's
(39:47):
really bright.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
I mean it was one of the Surefires to let
us and they're incredibly good. I said, yeah, they're really good.
I said they're expensive, and I decided they're for I, like,
I really like flashlights. Right now is the darkest well
up in the Northern Minister anyway. The days are short
in the darkest part of the year, and I find
(40:09):
that I use a flashlight all the time, walking out
to the car, walking through parking lots, whatever. One of
the things I was going to suggest, I just bought
a bunch of these off Amazon for presents for grandkids
and things. Headlamps. Headlamps are so darn handy. I mean, basically,
you put them on now you have your hands free
(40:30):
for stuff. It's amazing how often you can end up
using one. And they had them for like ten dollars
for two of them. It was nuts how cheap they were.
So just in terms of whether they're stocking stuffers or gifts.
Flashlights once and if you don't do this now, get
(40:51):
yourself a small flashlight that's keeping your pocket. You I
think will be surprised at how often you use it.
I use it when I'm looking down in bags trying
to find things, when I'm looking, you know, inside of
a car, looking for stuff that may have fallen behind
a seat whatever. Just it's amazing how many times I
(41:12):
use a flashlight. And it's probably not a gift that
other people are going to be getting. And they're cheap.
I mean, I say, you can get them for five
or ten bucks and horse spin a couple hundred bucks,
doesn't matter. Just find something the other thing I was
thinking about for the shooters in your group. And this
(41:34):
may sound obvious, but people don't do it even though
it sounds obvious. Buy them like a brick of twenty
two ammo, five hundred rounds of twenty two ammo. It's
available now, used to not be available. It's relatively inexpensive,
you know, not like it was fifteen twenty years ago,
but what is And you know, if it's a new shooter,
(41:58):
buying a brick of it and give them some rains, time,
some instruction, and when it comes to instruction, boy, going
to a class with somebody is just a lot more
fun than going by yourself, whether it's a buddy or
you know, your girlfriend. A lot of times you get
(42:19):
two or through women go together and they have a
great time in a class. Maybe you give somebody a
class and say, hey, we're all going to go together,
you know, whether it's a local class, or maybe go
all the way across the country and go to some cool,
well known class. It doesn't really matter as long as
you're going. It recharges your batteries. It makes you think
(42:41):
about things you haven't thought about before. Grip cites trigger.
Let's get back to that basic stuff. The problem is
it's really really hard to coach yourself because you don't
know what you're doing. The recoil covers up most of
the mistakes you're making, so you don't know why your
(43:01):
groups are big, or you don't know why you're shooting
over to the left. You don't know why you're doing
those things, and that's where an instructor looks at you.
He says, Okay, this is what you're doing, this is
what you need to do. Work on this, and I
swear when they do it, it's close to magic. It's like, oh, wow,
that really works. That's cool. And you may even think,
(43:26):
you know, I knew that, but I wasn't doing that. Well,
that's why we go right there. It is okay. When
we come back, I want to talk a little bit
about what's going on in politics, legislation, and in the.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
Courts and where we are.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
I mean, we've got possibility of a new director of
the ATF and the Department of Justice is supporting the
NFA in report supporting restrictions. Great, wait, this is the
Trump THEOJ what's going on here?
Speaker 4 (43:56):
We'll talk about it.
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Speaker 3 (00:31):
All right, beckybody here a six six talk gun or
Tom Talkgun. That's the number. You can join me right here.
I'm Tom Gresham and this is gun Talk. We're going
to be talking about, well, some cool stuff going on
in just a few minutes. Were we talk about something
that just happened. A Texas based company just landed a contract.
It's really impressive and there's some things to learn about this.
(00:53):
I got a question earlier. Somebody was saying, I want
to buy my first AR fifteen. What should I get? Well,
we'll talk about just a few minutes. It's an interesting question.
Here's the thought for you, the AR fifteen or the
platform itself. You'll hear the gun banner say, oh yeah,
these new guns are high capacity, fast shooting.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Oh, the AR fifteen platform is it's I think it's
seventy right, that's seventy years old, hardly.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
New, been around a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It really is just a rifle, semi automatic in the
form that we get. You know who used the semi
automatic rifle to hunt with President Teddy Roosevelt.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
A long time ago, so we get that.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
We'll talk about ars in just a few minutes. Also
question for you in the I talk about being prepared
all the time. You know, the drill, and I've always
got a gun at least with me. But one of
the things we talk about a good bit and I'd
like to throw this out and get your take. See
if you do this, assuming you are doing EDC every daycare,
(02:09):
you're carrying a handgun for self protection, do you regularly
or even ever have what we you've missed a recall,
A truck gun, a gun for your vehicle, A long
gun of some sort, could be well, it might be
an AR pistol, but it might be a rifle of
some sort, could be an AR, could be a lever action,
(02:30):
could be something else. Do you ever carry a gun
in your vehicle? A longer gun. You know it's been
to set people joke and say, you know, the handgun
is much to carry, so you can fight your way
back to the long gun. To rifle you shouldn't put
down in the first place. It could be maybe, So
tell you what, take a quick break. Here we come back.
We got some news about an ar and a Texas company.
(02:52):
They're doing huge things. You want to hear this one.
I'm Tom Gresham. This is Gun Talk.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
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(03:29):
the RXAM is ready because when it's go time, you
won't have time.
Speaker 6 (03:37):
Want the latest and guns, gear and shooting info straight
into your inbox. Sign up for the Gun Talk newsletter.
Get insider access to reviews, exclusive deals, training tips, and
the hottest stories from the range, delivered every week. Don't
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(03:58):
at gun talk dot com.
Speaker 7 (04:00):
That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 8 (04:06):
Fly settle for what's on the shelf. When guns dot
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(04:28):
businesses nationwide. Guns dot com purveyors of freedom.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Put all your gear on that you carry and then
roll around on the ground. Now, get up all your
gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not going
to have in a fight.
Speaker 9 (04:43):
Gun Talks should be in your podcast feed. Check out
gun talk Nation.
Speaker 10 (04:47):
What's it like to be blown up?
Speaker 11 (04:49):
You know, if it's like C four, it's almost like.
Speaker 9 (04:51):
A smack hunting. Yeah, we talk about that too.
Speaker 10 (04:55):
On your crosshairs, I like a thin crosshair.
Speaker 9 (04:58):
AJE, you're really dating yourself by calling things cross.
Speaker 10 (05:00):
Hairs eureredical whatever.
Speaker 9 (05:02):
Have some fun and stay informed with the gun Talk podcast.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Hi, y'all, this is aw R. Hawkins from brid Barr News.
Welcome back to gun Talk.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And welcome back to gun Talk. Is exactly correct. I'm
Tom Gresham. The number here is well just call me
a Tom Talk gun Now.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Just got the.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
News this week. This is a big deal. There's a
company in Texas. It's kind of the little company that
could that just got a contract. Well, you know what,
Rather than me tell you about it, let's be again.
Mike Mihawsky is the founder of Sons of Liberty Gun
Works down in Texas. Hey, Mike, how are you, sir?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Hey?
Speaker 12 (05:47):
Good, good, sir. Good to talk to you again.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Man, all right, So got the news here.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Sons of Liberty gun Works is awarded the us SO
COMM contract for the Mark one rifle. So COM being
Special Operations Command. And how did that happen?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
I mean, and what kind.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Of trials do they put you through before they'll accept
your rifle?
Speaker 12 (06:08):
So, to be specific, it's a it's a it's it's
a unit in SOCOM. I cannot say which exact unit
it is, but I can say I believe is probably
one of the most coveted contracts in the world. And
this is a kind of unit that can have anything
in the world they want, uh so to be selected
(06:29):
for that, it's it's just it's surreal. Uh To answer
your question for the trials, I mean, this is a
it's like a two year process. There's operator evil and
then it has to go to the both of the
most sophisticated weapons testing laboratories in the country. Uh So
you're going through Craine, You're going through Army Research Lab
(06:53):
and the testing and validation on those systems is is
there a bit of what you would think it is
that men, that weapon has to work and negative forty degrees,
it has to work, you know, over the beach, it
has to work in you know, incredible environmental conditions with
uh you know, debris and the just incredible round counts,
(07:17):
endurance service, lifelong components. But not only does the gun
have to be reliable, it also has to be very shootable,
it has to be carriable. There's a lot that goes
into making weapons at that level for that end user.
It's not reliability is where you start. Then it just
keeps going from there.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
And just for those who are scratching their heads about
what you just said, and you can't say it, I'm
not gonna say it. But let's just say that this
is a unit that might have a number attached to
it that people might know. I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
How's that.
Speaker 12 (07:50):
I'm not saying I didn't I'm.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Not you didn't say, you didn't say a thing. Fighter,
just just saying that, you know, just there it is,
so all right. Look, they're obvious for those of us
who don't make AR fifteens and you you have been
working with law enforcement and military units for years and years.
That is your thing, man, making the rifles that these
(08:12):
people need to go places, do things to protect themselves
and other people.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
But a lot of us look at an AR. Look
it's an AR.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
They all look alike. How do I know what the
difference is between years and a five hundred dollars one?
Speaker 12 (08:26):
Well, if you're talking specifically about the mark one right
the start there for a second. This is the first
rifle that was really developed from the ground up to
incorporate all of the visual augmentation systems that go on
the rifle. So at this level, you know, there's every
single inch of real estate on that rifle is probably
(08:47):
being used by something to either see at night, aim
at night, thermal magnifiers so on and so forth, and
all the switches and things that control that. So building
the weapon do preemptively incorporate. That was a big deal
because the visual augmentation systems contribute to the lethality of
the system as much as you know, I kind of
(09:09):
joke when you look at the costs of the stuff
that goes on top of the gun, the gun almost
feels like the clip on the rifle.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah electronic, Yeah, they got it or something.
Speaker 12 (09:23):
Yeah, right, right right, So, but you know, the weapon
also has to be extremely shootable, that has to be
very flat tracking while still being very reliable, and that's challenging.
Most of the time. When you seek reliability, you give
up a little bit of shootability. The challenge here was
to maintain both and and do it all under six pounds.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Oh really, Yeah, okay, I mean we should obvious obvious,
but we should say, yours is the select fire, so
it will go full auto.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
So they get to just.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Run, yeah, the version obviously, and they run these things
until they glow.
Speaker 12 (10:06):
For the Yeah. I mean, perhaps not in a real
world scenario, because I mean some of the you know,
some of the people using this rifle, they truly employ
it in a surgical way. But but it's the it's
the tens and tens of thousands of rounds of training
that the weapon must be able to endear for perhaps
(10:27):
those two perfect shots in the real world.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
M M.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
That makes sense because, as we say, they go places
and do things interesting and most of the time they
can't come back and talk about it.
Speaker 13 (10:37):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
The Mark one rifle, uh, is that available in a
civilian version that that I could buy.
Speaker 12 (10:47):
Absolutely everything we've ever developed for any type of government
entity we make available to the commercial market because ultimately
I got into this business to arm the American citizens.
Art trajectory is a company is interesting. I think most
of them, most of the brands that you're familiar with
and associate with military use that is almost their primary
(11:09):
function was going after military contracts. We've always we've always
specifically catered to the commercial civilian market, and I've been
in line with the Second Amendment. And it just so
happens that we were discovered and ultimately were successful and
prevailed at the at the highest levels they are so
like we got there backwards. Most companies go after those
(11:32):
kinds of contracts and then it kind of trickles down
to the commercial market, whereas our trajectory was the exact opposite.
I'm proud of that.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
You are, in my estimation, one of the most strident
avid Second Amendment supporters I've ever known. Everything about what
you do with your company and personally is about the
Second Amendment and making sure that US citizens have the
right given bear arms, and that kind of permeate your
(12:01):
entire company.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
When did you get started?
Speaker 12 (12:05):
So the concept started in my garage a little over
eleven years. Are going to spend a wild, wild eleven years.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
That's unbelievable that in only eleven years that you just
got this contract, got selected by this unit, and you
made a point. I want to make sure we get
this out there. They can literally buy anything they want,
and not just made in America. They can go anywhere
and get Belgium made or other from any country, and
they do they test everything that's right.
Speaker 12 (12:35):
And what's interesting, because people have asked me this question
or people that are skeptical of this particular rifle's performance
and some of the claims made around it, what they
don't understand is that if this if something that, if
something that did this already existed, they would just go
buy it. We had to take indiuser feedback from the
last twenty years of constant warfare in six a lot
(13:00):
of real problems that were observed from you know, one
thing or another, whether it was a performance thing or
an interface thing or whatever. You know. We had to
design the gun to address all of the problems historically
that they've seen with these weapons systems, and we had
to also preemptively build the gun for where like the
(13:20):
next ten years is going to look like the ammunition
is changing, optics and other types of accessories are changing.
So not only are you having to fix the problems
of the past, you're having to preemptively build the direction
things are going. And I can tell you we are
in our renaissance period right now. For small arms. I'd
say that the next five years are going to be
as significant in my opinion as the invention of rifling
(13:44):
or the invention of the cartridge. Where you see the
lethality leap that's going to happen in the next couple
of years across small arms is very interesting.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Is that going to be because of adopting the high
pressure cartridges that are not just coming, they're already online.
And the correlated to that that add on is will
this rifle platform take these higher pressure cartridges?
Speaker 12 (14:13):
The Mark one was preemptively developed around high pressure ammo
and this and this is not this is open source.
I mean people need to look at the seven. People
can go look at the seven back country and look
at some of the other you know, case technology that's
out there. This is coming. There's no putting the genie
back in the bottle. Once this performance is understood by
(14:34):
the commercial market, it's going to every all ammunition is
going to eventually look like this. And what's going to
happen is when you're getting adequate velocities out of smaller
and smaller guns, it's going to force optics to become smaller,
it's going to become force small thermals to become more powerful.
It's gonna it's going to just change the way you
(14:55):
you use a rifle. I mean, if you're going on
a sheep hunt and you know, maybe you don't need
to twenty eight inch barrel anymore. Maybe you're getting hypervelocities
as something much smaller and lighter. I mean, it's the
way it's going to translate down to the commercial and
hunting markets. It's just this is the future. It's here
and it's just not quite understood yet by the commercial market.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I would agree, because I mean I know that the
backcounts of similarly in the back country operates at eighty
thousand PSI. I have talked to m O and gun companies.
I say, look in research, we're working with cartridges that
run up at one hundred and twenty thousand psi, which
is unbelievable to me.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Man, And I know you.
Speaker 12 (15:33):
Yeah, yeah, I have to yeah, I have to stop
before I get in trouble. But what I will say, well,
I will say that to supplement that is that if
they're selling that cartridge to the commercial market, that's because
it's well well under the yield strength of that case.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, I know that. You know things you can't talk
about because you work in that class of wied world.
Not good bed faaradock, all right, So I help me
with that. Somebody says, I want to buy my fir
ar and I can buy one at five hundred dollars,
or I can buy and you have I mean, this
is what like a twenty five hundred dollars rifle, but
you actually have rifles you make a retail for what
(16:11):
twelve thirteen hundred bucks something like that. Why should somebody,
why should somebody start at that level rather than the
super base level.
Speaker 12 (16:22):
Well, what I would say is you like, I personally
like to buy things that that almost that exceed my
needs because I would imagine that I will outgrow. And
so I mean what I would do is I would
look into I mean, fundamentally, you want a well made,
reliable weapon that has boring predictability of performance, boringly predictable performance, right,
(16:50):
And I don't think that you can achieve that in
an AR under about the thirteen hundred dollars mark. You
just can't. Because under thirteen hundred dollars. And this is
just me being in industry for the last you know,
eleven years, and not just that as an armor teaching
thousands of students across the country, law enforcements and civilian
seeing what's out there. Ninety five percent of the rifles
(17:12):
on the market would not meet the basic minimum for
you know, a work rifle. So one undred, twelve hundred bucks,
thirty hundred bucks, You're you're going to be sacrificing materials
of some kind. You're going to be sacrificing QC. There's
going to be some deficiency. But if you're buying your
first rifle, I mean kind of look at what you
want to achieve with it. If this is a home
defense rifle, then you know there's a certain level, there's
(17:34):
certain parameters that you want to keep with. And if
this is a hunting rifle, then obviously you know you
want to look at that. And if you're needing something
a bit more sophisticated, and look at weapons that are
actually tailored to do those sophisticated things. And I know
that's a very vague, very vague answer, but I would
first start off with what am I trying to achieve
(17:55):
and then kind of work it backwards.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
You know, what you're saying, Mike, is that you need
to become an educated consumer because this is not a
just because they all look alike doesn't mean they all
are alike. And you know, if you've got to get
something that works for you, you better know something.
Speaker 12 (18:10):
About them for absolutely, And unfortunately I can tell you
that you know in certain places on the Internet, they're
they're terrible sources for for uh validated information. You know,
I would I would I would look to like I
would probably look to I would defer to expertise and
(18:31):
not necessarily someone who sells guns. Don't come to me
because if I think I'm biasedes I sell guns. But
go look at what your top instructors are using and recommending.
Go look at what you know the people who shoot
a lot with their recommending. You remember, Sons Liberty grew
to an international company. We're in fourteen countries in eleven years,
(18:52):
and we never spent a dollar in marketing. We grew
through word of mouth. I'm very proud of that. So
to me, like that peer to peer recoon mandation is
what helped us. If you're interested in a good defensive rifle,
talk to people who are actual, you know, recognized instructors
or have some level of expertise, and they put their
(19:12):
real name to their opinions, not you know, colwn Shop
six ninety seven on ready. I'm saying someone that is
willing to sign their actual name to their Yes, they'll
find that person.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
And Sons Celeberty gun works as the name of the company.
You're making them right there in San Antonio, Texas.
Speaker 12 (19:34):
Probably made in San Antonio, Texas homely almost.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
That is so cool, Mike, Mike Pihoski, I am so
proud to know you, and this is just an amazing achievement.
In eleven years, you have gone from zero to hero.
It is unbelievable what you're doing with this whole line.
I can't wait to see what you do next. Man,
can I know you're busy.
Speaker 12 (19:53):
It's going to be a fun couple of years.
Speaker 11 (19:55):
Tom.
Speaker 12 (19:56):
Thanks for the support as always for years. Man, in
anytime you have a slot and you.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Call me, all right, we'll do that, sir. I appreciate it. Congratulates.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I'm going to send people over to Sons of LIBERTYGW
dot com. That's for Gunworks, Sons Lilibery gun Works as
the name of the company. Mike Mahoski, thank you, so.
I appreciate that. You have yourself for a great rest
of the week.
Speaker 12 (20:16):
Take it to you, sir.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
All right, amazing stuff of a great information, great advice
choosing an AR because I mean you really can't. Actually
I see him at three ninety nine. Is it three
ninety nine, three hundred and ninety nine dollars we're talking
about AR? Is that worth buying? Maybe if you say
that's what I can afford, Okay, maybe you get yourself
(20:38):
into it. I think a lot of times, you can't
fully appreciate the higher quality of or really anything until
you get into that world.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
You can get a really.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Cheap nineteen eleven and then you say, yeah, but that's nice,
but wow, these other ones are really nicer. But I
didn't I didn't understand that. I didn't appreciate that until
I got into it. The other, of course, is to say,
you know what, I know the whole buy one, you know,
buy once, cry once deal, pay a little bit more
(21:11):
on the front end, and I'm going to be happy.
I personally know. Every time I try to go cheap,
I'm sorry, just I know how that works. So interesting information.
So if you go over and check it out, then
mark one rifle and they've got some others over there
as well. So what's today are fifteen good for?
Speaker 7 (21:31):
Ah?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Well, almost anything a rifle would be good for, certainly
hunting target, shooting out to a mile. Yeah, depends on
the cartridge. And you can change them in a lot
of different things. Their modular you can customize them, do
whatever you want to. If you want to build your own,
you can certainly do that, or you could add parts
or do all sorts of stuff to it. And of
course if you just want a home defense gun, man,
(21:54):
I can't think of one that's better than an AAR
fifteen platform. Maybe just throw a red dot on it
and call it good. The main thing is get it
and learn to use it. Mike mentioned they do training
as well, and there are a lot of places you can
go to get a good training with an AR.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
It's not intuitive, and.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
A lot of the stuff you think you would normally
do with it or probably are wrong or at least
not particularly efficient. So a real good carving class with
an AR fifteen not only is fun, but you learn a.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Lot with it. All right, Number here is eight pick six,
Talk gun? What's on your mind?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
We're just having fun sitting around shooting the freeze.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Talk about guns.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Glad you could be here. I'm Tom Gresham. I mean
we really are just talking about this and that, and
we're at the point where we just kind of bounce
around and I drive part of the conversation for part
of the show, and then the rest of the time
you get to drive the conversation wherever you want it
to go. So what's on your mind? What do you
want to talk about? Let's see, Oh John called in,
(23:03):
he said, Reno Nevada, We're gonna talk about suppressors.
Speaker 13 (23:06):
Hey, John, Hey, how's it going well?
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Excellent? So what's on your mind?
Speaker 14 (23:12):
Yeah, just real quick, I just wanted to bring up
the new suppressor laws that are coming out January one,
And I'm wondering, should I pay the two hundred dollars
now and get my suppressor in the next couple of
days or should I wait and save myself to our bucks?
But what kind of timeframes can I expect to wait?
Speaker 12 (23:30):
Is it going to be back to six to eight
months before I can get my suppressor?
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Oh? I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
But there's another factor here, and that is that a
lot of the companies making suppressors are selling suppressors now.
They don't want you to wait, they want you to
buy right now. So what they're doing is they are
paying the two hundred dollars tax for you today so
you don't have to wait until the end of the
year when the tax goes away. And so I mean
(23:57):
basically they're just saying, look, if we don't do this,
people are going to sit here wait till the.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
End of the year. We won't have any sales.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
So they figured it out and whether it's Silence or
Central or other companies everywhere I look. Right now, there's
the pressure. Companies are saying we will pay the tax
for you. I would argue, and you know, I hadn't
really thought about it, but you may be right. We
may get a flood of people after the turn into
twenty twenty six, when the tax officially goes away, the
(24:26):
two hundred dollars tax. We could have get a lot
of people who say, yeah, now's the time, and all
of a sudden the market gets flooded and maybe even
the supply goes down. You can't find one I would
buy it.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Now or me?
Speaker 12 (24:39):
Okay, great, thanks, great.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Good deal, Good luck with it. Let me know what
you end up with. Okay, we'll do all right, sounds good.
Let's go talk to Jim. He is in Louisiana. Hey Jim,
you're on gun Dog. How can we help you?
Speaker 15 (24:54):
Oh? Yeah, sir, miss the Tom Well, me and my
little brother, old guys at a late sixty and all,
and you know, clean records buying guns on our life.
You know what, we're contractors. And little brother got all
beat up in life. He's all broken in pain, and
he got a medical marijuana license. And now he don't
want to buy a gun. He wants me to go
buy a gun for birthday. Hello, No, I don't know
(25:17):
about all this. You know, what should he do? He's
scared now to buy a gun. He didn't realize. He
just does it after work, you know, when he drinks
his alcohol and you know he don't drive or nothing.
Speaker 12 (25:27):
I go shooting range.
Speaker 15 (25:28):
When he's all on it. You know, he's the way
he gets home after work and you know, a responsible
man and he's just wondering what to do now.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Okay, So let me explain with people are saying, what
are we talking about here? According to federal law, now
state law, you can get a medical marijuana card and
you're perfectly illegal. The Fed say that that is still illegal.
Using marijuana is still illegal, and that being the case,
you cannot own a gun if you're a medical old
(25:57):
marijuana card holder or if you're using marijuana. That is
all up in the air right now because there is
a major lawsuit working his way to the Supreme Court
about this, because they're saying, hey, you can't take away
people's second amma, right just because they're using marijuana.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
And yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
A lot of people that get great relief from pain,
but with gummies or marijuana cannabis of some form or another.
So you know that's super popular and quite legal in
a lot of states. I'm sorry to tell you that
I don't know what he should do. He might here's
(26:38):
what you might want to do if if you could say, look,
just hold off for a few months, dude, because if
the Supreme Court takes this case, and I think they're
very well made, and if they rule that it's unconstitutional
to block him from buying or owning a gun, then
he's good to go. But we would be looking at
(26:58):
probably June of next year. If they take the case
and get it argued. It'd be June of next year
before we get that decision. Now, you also brought out
something else. If he says, Okay, can you buy this
gun for me? Ooh, I would be real careful about
that one.
Speaker 12 (27:15):
No.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yeah, because if he's prohibited, and he actually technically is prohibited,
and you buy a gun for him and he's a
prohibited person, that could put you in a world to hurt.
I would just say, look, you already got a bunch
of guns. I know he does because I know you do,
and just say look, just sit on for right now,
let's wait until next summer and see how this all
(27:39):
shakes out. It's not what anybody wants to hear, but
right now it's the best I got with what information
I have. Yeah, right, And those whore say, well, you
can't buy a gun. No, actually, legally you can't own
a gun if you are Americal marijuana user. I mean
(28:00):
it's illegal for you to even own a gun, not
just buy a gun. So just say and understand what
the law is. Okay, So there it is, and I'll
keep you posted if you keep a listening as soon
as we have any information, and I'll put it out
here for you.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Okay.
Speaker 11 (28:14):
I appreciate it, all right, you take care.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
I appreciate the call. It's a mess, that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
And it doesn't make any sense that marijuana use is
legal in a lot of states and yet it's still
a federal crime. And so that's got to get changed.
They got to get that sorted out, to find some
kind of I don't know what you'd say that it's
(28:42):
got to be the same, right, you can't have it
legal under state law and illegal under federal law, which
you're saying, well, okay, but I got the card the
state issues to be the card or it's legal to
do this in this state, but the fat say it's not.
And while you may say, well, I'm okay with that.
(29:02):
I'll take my chances, and then you say, yeah, but
you know what, if you fill out the forty four
to seventy three for them when you're buying a gun
and you say you're not a user of marijuana, you're
falsified that. It's just like I said, it's a mess.
That's what it is. So we'll keep you posted on that.
There are actually several cases. This is the most amazing
(29:25):
year maybe for the Supreme Court. They've already taken two
second amendic cases and they have I think it's thirty
or forty other cases. The second memic cases have been
you know, people are trying to get them to grant
cert on it.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
They're not going to take all those.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
They might take one or two more, but that would
be amazing because most years they don't take any second
a medic cases. If they end up taking three or
maybe even four second amendic cases, it would be astounding
to see what happens. I mean, and I think it's
likely somewhere between possible and likely. If they take at
least one more, we end up with three gun cases
(30:05):
in this Supreme Court. It'd be amazing if they do that.
We'll keep your post on that as well. All right,
our number here eight sixty six Talk gun. I'm Tom
greshould be right back with more gun talk.
Speaker 16 (30:26):
There's more to this world of guns than you realize.
Speaker 9 (30:29):
Your entry to.
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Our world is a clickaway at gun talk dot com.
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Speaker 4 (30:57):
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(31:20):
visiting Timney's website Timney Triggers dot Com.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Put all your gear on that you carry and then
roll around on the ground. Now, get up all your
gear that's on the ground. That's what you're not gonna
have in a fight.
Speaker 9 (31:33):
Gun Talks should be in your podcast feed. Check out
gun talk Nation. What's it like to be blown up?
Speaker 12 (31:38):
You know?
Speaker 9 (31:39):
If it's like C four, it's almost like a smack hunting. Yeah,
we talk about that too.
Speaker 10 (31:44):
On your crosshairs, I like a thin crosshair, Aje.
Speaker 9 (31:48):
You're really dating yourself by calling things cross hairs.
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You'reredical whatever.
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(32:19):
at gun talk dot com.
Speaker 7 (32:21):
That's gun talk dot com.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
All right, let's go straight to the phones. Craigs with
us online one out of Kousbe, Oregon. Hey Craig, what
you got there?
Speaker 4 (32:42):
Man?
Speaker 13 (32:44):
Well, I need a recommendation? Is a sal two pistol
that you know? I can do some plunking with and
got a lot of arments around where I live, so
I can maybe, but I just you know, I just
I remember I had a the smith and lesson that
(33:05):
was kind of framed off was nine to eleven design
many many years ago, and you know it helped with
my with my owner shooting. So right, what do you
what do you think?
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Well, what center fire gun? Are you trying to get
an air gun that's like that?
Speaker 13 (33:25):
All kind of like my Rougar nine or like my
little macrorofs some some along those lines.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Okay, I was There's a website that I would say,
go to because they got everything. It's Pyramid Air. Let
me get you the spelling because the spelling is critical
on this.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
It's p y it's all wise than Pyramid Air.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Uh so yeah, it's uh to p y r a
m y d air Pyramid Air dot com. And you
look at the CO two pistols and I'm looking right now,
and they've got like pretty much everything, SIGs and Bretta's
and smiths and you know, ninety eleven's and revolvers and
(34:09):
god seems like pretty much anybody who ever made a pistol,
they've got an air gun version of it.
Speaker 13 (34:15):
So there we go.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Okay, well, you know, are you going to use it?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
And let me just suggest this too if you haven't
thought about it, if you have it, I don't know
if you carry a gun for self defense, but man,
an air gun is a great way to train because
you can get when it fits your holster and just
you can shoot all you want to and do it safely.
And so you know, I just thought for in addition
to shooting the VIRONM, it's just.
Speaker 13 (34:36):
A way of practicing exactly exactly. That's that was my thought.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
All right, good deal, Well, good luck with you, Greg.
Speaker 13 (34:44):
We'll thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
You bet.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I love the idea of doing some training with the
CO two pistol and air gun pelagun actually bb gun
probably Actually I'm looking on the Pyramid Air website. They've
got a I think they're how to build an indoor
shooting range. DIY do it yourself indoor range. One thing
about BB's I can tell you from experience when I
(35:10):
was a kid. You need something that traps BB's because
they are hard, they're steel, and they bounce. Having had
one come back and smacked me right in the forehead
after it bounced off of a piece of wood aboard.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
I shot that.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Ah, okay, let's be more careful with that. There are
a lot of ways you could do it. You could
do it like with a heavy piece of canvas. That's
your backstop that catches them, and you can actually drape
it so that the BB's hit that and they roll down
and you can collect them at the bottom. We used
to a long time ago, we made a target out
(35:47):
of a large cardboard box and stuffed it full of
wadded up newspapers and then would just tape the target
onto that and we would shoot that in our house
going down the hallway, and both of our kids grew
up knowing that you would yell out, okay, you know,
range is hot. Basically, don't come in the hallway and
(36:08):
we're shooting, and that worked very well. The only problem
with that setup is you got to make sure you
don't miss the box.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Whatever did.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
But obviously if you missed the box, now the BB's
flying down the hallway and hitting the door or something.
So if you don't have an adult type BB gun,
coee you two air gun, let me recommend you know what,
holiday season's here, not just coming, it's here now. It
(36:40):
would be a really good time. Oh, let me do
this too. I'm gonna click ex keep me. I'm shopping
while I'm talking to you. Okay, Holiday gift guy, they
got some Black Friday specials going on Pyramid Air.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Always check that out. I would.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
I would say, go take a look. I think you'd
like it. Oh, let's grab a range report here. Nathan's
on two out of Troy r Nathan, you got a
range report?
Speaker 4 (37:02):
What you shooting?
Speaker 11 (37:04):
I just picked up a how a mini action rifle
in three point fifty legend.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
Oh, and I've been having.
Speaker 11 (37:11):
Yeah, I've been having a time trying to figure out
what am I'm going to shoot through it and took
it out to the range with four different loads, and
I was getting inch and a half to two inch groups.
But it's supposed to have a subam away guarantee, Okay.
So I was trying to figure out what was going
(37:35):
on with it, and eventually I figured out that changing
the shoulder pressure of the stock pressed into my shoulder
could move the point of impact about an inch at
one hundred yards.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Oh, well, you know what's going on.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
You've got a really lightweight.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Rifle and it will bounce around depending on the pressure
like against your shoulder, or also the pressure on the rest,
the rifle rest you've got it on. I find with
lightweight rifles, if you have more padding underneath the rifle
on the rifle rest, maybe even a folded.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Up towel, that helps.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
But yeah, but yeah, if you have different amounts of
pressure on your shoulder or the way you grip the
gun on a lightweight rifle like that, they can really
throw it off and mess up your accuracy.
Speaker 4 (38:25):
But do you like the rifle overall?
Speaker 11 (38:28):
I do like it?
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Yes, I love that.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
How a media rifle, that boltax rifle is just sweet,
available in a lot of different calories and cartridges. But
the three fifty legend, what a great idea. So that's terrific,
But no, thank you of that range report. The different
pressures of how much pressure you're putting on the rifle,
putting against your shoulder, was moving point of impact as
(38:52):
much as an inch, consistency, same pressure whether it's light
or heavy, same pressure as you when you're grabbed in
the grip, same pressure as you're holding the fore end.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
If you're doing that.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
That consistency equates to accuracy.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
The accuracy shooters.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
All know that, and boy, it is even more important
when you have a super lightweight rifle.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
All right, be right back.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah, that's the time of year again, and that it
is time for looking for gifts for everybody, maybe even
for yourself. I was over at my sister's place in
Washington State a few days ago, and in the process
of talking, I happened to pull out a flashlight. She
was amazed. I said, well, that's really something. Oh that's
(39:47):
really bright.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
I mean it was one of the Surefires to let
us and they're incredibly good. I said, yeah, they're really good.
I said they're expensive, and I decided they're for I, like,
I really like flashlights. Right now is the darkest well
up in the Northern Minister anyway. The days are short
in the darkest part of the year, and I find
(40:09):
that I use a flashlight all the time, walking out
to the car, walking through parking lots, whatever. One of
the things I was going to suggest, I just bought
a bunch of these off Amazon for presents for grandkids
and things. Headlamps. Headlamps are so darn handy. I mean, basically,
you put them on now you have your hands free
(40:30):
for stuff. It's amazing how often you can end up
using one. And they had them for like ten dollars
for two of them. It was nuts how cheap they were.
So just in terms of whether they're stocking stuffers or gifts.
Flashlights once and if you don't do this now, get
(40:51):
yourself a small flashlight that's keeping your pocket. You I
think will be surprised at how often you use it.
I use it when I'm looking down in bags trying
to find things, when I'm looking, you know, inside of
a car, looking for stuff that may have fallen behind
a seat whatever. Just it's amazing how many times I
(41:12):
use a flashlight. And it's probably not a gift that
other people are going to be getting. And they're cheap.
I mean, I say, you can get them for five
or ten bucks and horse spin a couple hundred bucks,
doesn't matter. Just find something the other thing I was
thinking about for the shooters in your group. And this
(41:34):
may sound obvious, but people don't do it even though
it sounds obvious. Buy them like a brick of twenty
two ammo, five hundred rounds of twenty two ammo. It's
available now, used to not be available. It's relatively inexpensive,
you know, not like it was fifteen twenty years ago,
but what is And you know, if it's a new shooter,
(41:58):
buying a brick of it and give them some rains, time,
some instruction, and when it comes to instruction, boy, going
to a class with somebody is just a lot more
fun than going by yourself, whether it's a buddy or
you know, your girlfriend. A lot of times you get
(42:19):
two or through women go together and they have a
great time in a class. Maybe you give somebody a
class and say, hey, we're all going to go together,
you know, whether it's a local class, or maybe go
all the way across the country and go to some cool,
well known class. It doesn't really matter as long as
you're going. It recharges your batteries. It makes you think
(42:41):
about things you haven't thought about before. Grip cites trigger.
Let's get back to that basic stuff. The problem is
it's really really hard to coach yourself because you don't
know what you're doing. The recoil covers up most of
the mistakes you're making, so you don't know why your
(43:01):
groups are big, or you don't know why you're shooting
over to the left. You don't know why you're doing
those things, and that's where an instructor looks at you.
He says, Okay, this is what you're doing, this is
what you need to do. Work on this, and I
swear when they do it, it's close to magic. It's like, oh, wow,
that really works. That's cool. And you may even think,
(43:26):
you know, I knew that, but I wasn't doing that. Well,
that's why we go right there. It is okay. When
we come back, I want to talk a little bit
about what's going on in politics, legislation, and in the.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
Courts and where we are.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
I mean, we've got possibility of a new director of
the ATF and the Department of Justice is supporting the
NFA in report supporting restrictions. Great, wait, this is the
Trump THEOJ what's going on here?
Speaker 4 (43:56):
We'll talk about it.
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