In This Hour:
-- Federal's announcement of the 6.5 Creedmoor +Peak high velocity ammo excites hunters and long range shooters, but the U.S. military has been experimenting with much higher pressures and velocities. Mike Milhalski of Sons Of Liberty Gun Works shares some of what they have learned, and how this will change rifles, optics, and more.
-- Is there any reason to own a .38 Super handgun?
-- Physics is real, and higher velocity ammunition certainly increases felt recoil
Gun Talk 06.08.26 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Federal's announcement of the 6.5 Creedmoor +Peak high velocity ammo excites hunters and long range shooters, but the U.S. military has been experimenting with much higher pressures and velocities. Mike Milhalski of Sons Of Liberty Gun Works shares some of what they have learned, and how this will change rifles, optics, and more.
-- Is there any reason to own a .38 Super handgun?
-- Physics is real, and higher velocity ammunition certainly increases felt recoil
Gun Talk 06.08.26 Hour 2
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
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Speaker 3 (00:31):
All right, welcome back to gun Talk. I'm Tom Gresham.
Give you a call an eight sixty six talk gun.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I'll get you in here.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Of course, we had the big news we had just
about an hour ago about Federal introducing a six y
five creed more character. They call it the plus peak
using their peak alloy steel alloy steel case eighty thousand
psi three hundred to four hundred baby more than that
psi or rather free per second increase. And a guy
who's been shooting some high pressure ammo for quite some
(00:59):
time because he gets to work with all the secret
squirrel stuff. Mike Howsky from Sons of Liberty Gun Works
joins us right now. Mike, how you doing, partner?
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Doing well? Tom?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Thanks for having me, do you bet? Absolutely so? All right,
just go back up for people that may not know.
Although you're cutting a big white swath these days, sons
of Liberty gun Works, you make some really need high
end in four AR fifteen of course the full auto stuff,
because you're working with a lot of military guys these days.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
We are.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
We've had some we've we've had some big wins and
cool places.
Speaker 7 (01:32):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Yeah, you want to tell us a little bit about
a couple of those.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Well, we were.
Speaker 6 (01:37):
We recently announced in I guess November, uh that our
Mark one which was submitted for the Combat Assault Rifle,
the car that we were awarded for that program. And
there's some other needs stuff out there. We've been in
some competitive downs, like some stuff we have not announced.
We have been playing in some very cool spaces and
(01:59):
we're out for pretty far out front.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
There's stuff I don't there's stuff you can't talk about.
I get it, I get it, okay. But having said that,
you got this federal announcement of this. Of course, last
year we had the seven milimeters back country, so eighty
thousand PSI, and then now we got the six point
five creed more eighty thousand psi. We're getting more pressure
and more velocity. And the question I have the first
(02:24):
question I had for them, and let me ask you
because I know you've been working with this, and they said, yeah,
you could use this in a regular gun because it
doesn't affect the gun. What have you been seeing?
Speaker 5 (02:35):
So there is some truth to that.
Speaker 6 (02:36):
There is some truth that that Keese technology is amazing,
so anybody doesn't understand it. Peak alloy is is like
a steel a steel alloy case, but unlike traditional steel cases,
this case can expand to steal on the internal wall
of that chamber, much like brass.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
That steel can expand.
Speaker 6 (03:00):
That expansion inside the chamber is taking off quite a
bit of bolt thrus so that bolt is not having
to absorb all of that eighty thousand psi as significant
amoma is absorbed by the friction that creates when it
seals inside the chamber. On top of that, that case
is so strong. It's so strong that it contains that
(03:23):
pressure quite well. If you tried doing that with brass,
I would not want to be I would not want
my face near the gun.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Yeah, okay, case is strong.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
All right, So the case is actually carrying a lot
of the pressure. So it's safe to shoot this in
a regular gun at eighty thousand. But that's not the limit,
because I know people have been people like oh, Mike,
who I'm talking to you right now and then playing
with much higher internal pressure cases because the military goes
way out there to kind of stretch the boundaries.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
So what have you been messing with?
Speaker 6 (03:57):
Well, so in the experimental phase, all I can say
is we've pushed ammunition considerably, considerably higher than eighty thousand,
way higher.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
I mean, I have to be.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
Careful when I say there, but let me just tell
you there's a there's a one and other zeros behind that,
you know, so so, But but with a with all
that being said, like now, yes, is that cartridge safe
to fire in a regular gun if there are no
bore obstructions.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
And you have a quality made firearm, you know, is
there a safety concern? No? Now, what kind of groups
will you get out of it?
Speaker 6 (04:34):
Well, we'll tell you that that blood accelerating that pact number,
all of that acceleration is happening almost instant. The way
these cases work and the way this ammunition works, all
of that pressure and all that acceleration is almost instant,
the peak pressure inside the barrel is much more dramatic
up and down than say, you know, most of your
factory loads, so that that pressure is not remaining high
(04:57):
that the powder burns so fast and so so efficient
that the potter's burned out sooner in that boar. And
see on a lot of your other slower powder, slower
like legacy propellants. No, No, With all that said, if
there's a bore obstruction, and then well you're that's a
kind of an issue that the weapons not a quality weapon.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Well that's an issue.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Too, of course that I mean, that's the same no
matter what you're shooting, you've got a more obstruction.
Speaker 6 (05:23):
You got a real problem, right, But the most weapons
are meant to contain or to you know, kind of
correctional because let's say, if you're shooting an AAR fifteen
and you're shooting fifty five thousand psi two two three am,
and you have a bore obstruction, well, it's going to
blow the floor plate out of the gun. You know,
you might break the extractor off or something. If you're
(05:44):
shooting let's say, you know, I don't know, two three
times higher than that or something like that. You have
a bore obstruction, Well you might get excited if the
weapon's not built to you, you know, with with with
that in the right, with someone having thought about that.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
You know, we just we just saw what you did there.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
When you say fifty five thousand, if you're shooting two
or three times, that that gives me you didn't say it,
But I'm just gonna make a guess that there's something
out there that's really smoking.
Speaker 6 (06:12):
I mean, you know, I mean the idea in anything experimental,
some of the stuff that we've played with in the
experimental phase, the idea is truly to push the envelope
and then whatever you see that that is more for
like data discovery, whatever ends up getting fielded or used
will probably be significantly under yielding.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Sure you take it to and then you back off,
then you back.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
It down, right.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
So but I think people would be surprised at how
how impressive this ammunition really is.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
When seven back Country came out, man, I saw a lot.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
Of people discusting in online and dismissing it, and it
was really frustrating because I was already working on some
of these projects back then and I wanted to just
shout out, I mean, you're looking at the future. Yeah,
you're looking at like this when this train leaves the
station and ain't never coming back. This is the future
of what ammunition is.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Okay, And I asked the guy at Faedross said, and
it's kind of rhetorical, but it's kind of not.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
It's like, okay, if you can get more.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Velocity, not just a little bit, but a whole lot
more velocity, shoot it out of the same gun. You
didn't even have to change your gun. The question then becomes,
why would you shoot any other ammo?
Speaker 5 (07:20):
You would? You wouldn't.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Here's the here's what I predict and I'm making a wild,
crazy prediction just from the outside looking at me.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Okay, I predict that if you can.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
Achieve adequate velocities in shorter guns, and then all of
a sudden, that twenty four inch thirty two inch barrel
whatever becomes almost quite unnecessary. If the velocities you're getting
out of a sixteen inch rifle, now remember the majority
of the weight and the weapon's going to be in
the barrel of the.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Barrels was a significant amount.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Right, Let's say you're able to get adequate velocity out
of much shorter barrels.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
Well, you're going to see the entire weapons systems start
to strength.
Speaker 6 (07:58):
Not only are you going to see rifles getting shorter,
but the optics getting shorter. Everything's going to be convincing.
And if I go into like the ar space where
I played in the in the gas gun, you know,
kind of a fighting rifle. You know, if you're getting
twenty inch velocities out of a ten inch gun, and
you know you can take that weapon and fight inside
(08:20):
a house, and you can also use it for you know,
reckie DMR or sniper precision rifle.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
You know, well what even guns are going to look like?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Well, that's an interesting idea, is that through the advent
of this new technology and AMMO, we're going to change
the way rifles look.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Absolutely.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
I think you're going to change the way optics look,
thermals look uh. I mean, everything's enough to get small
putting on a smaller gun and then you know, I
mean the expectation of being able to like your mack
point blank or how far you know, even an untrained
rifleman could just hold on target and pull the trigger.
I mean, this is what we've been talking about when
(08:58):
we're saying we're working on the increased lethality of the platform.
It's you know, lethality starts being able to hit the
target first, you know, so extending ranges to which there's
not a lot of thinking and calculation going involved. And
then you know, then of course what the bullet does,
you know, upon an impact. But it's a it's a
(09:18):
really neat time to be in the small arms game, you.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Know, like I'm thinking about in my Honting experience, you
go way back to Roy Weatherby and particularly the two
fifty seven weather Be great cartridge. But a lot of
people poop PuO it. They go, well, it's not a
high BC bullet, that said, I tell them.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
I can hold on to four hundred yards and not
even have to think about it. I don't even worry
about it. Just hold on, hit your target. That's really
kind of what you're talking about here.
Speaker 6 (09:42):
Yeah, and if that deer was standing on two legs
and you know, yeah shoo match it, yeah, shooting back
at you. I mean, you know what the idea is
to increase heat, increase hit probability, you know, maintain short
weapons for maneuverability and weights.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
And then this ammunition is significantly lighter than brass.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Right, so the amount of ammunition that you know a
soldier to carry, you know, the equivalent to certain them
is lighter than brass.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
There's a whole lot.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
Of good stuff around this, m Ando. I'm saying that
train has left the station. You were looking at the
future of ammunition technology and has it all right?
Speaker 3 (10:18):
So I could see shorter cartridges because of the efficiency,
which leads to shorter actions, which at leads to smaller
guns and just shorter packages, and as you saying, and
then everything else that gets attached to it. So here's
the question for you. And now we have no tax
on SBRs. What do you see in the world of
just consumers, not militay consumers being interested in SBRs these days?
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Well, so it's it's twofold.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
So you have no tax on there's no more taxamp
trailer tax SAMP on SBRs, and the e forms are
coming back so fast that you know, people are waiting
less than the week. So you've taken off the two
biggest barriers to entry into the NFA game and is
seeing an explosion of short burrow guns suppressors. There's look
how many suppressor options that are now more than ever
(11:08):
in any time in my career. Everybody's kind of getting
into it. Number One, there's some neat technology out there,
but also it's never been easier or faster super to.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Own to own some of this stuff.
Speaker 6 (11:18):
So I mean it is I mean, you know, the
income and use argument is going to be real hard
to yeah pretty soon.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
You know, you got these over barrels, suppressures that basically
kind of go back over the barrel, so you have
not very much sticking out beyond it. So imagine a
twelve or fourteen inch barrel in your hunting gun or
your defensive gun with a can that only goes out
four inches, but you get the effectiveness of a six
raateeds can on it. It's just changing an awful lot
of things in.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
A hurry, Absolutely absolutely, and I think people are just
not kind of scratching the surface. Again when I when
I saw this technology first release out in the sun
back country, it was dismissed. I think now in the
six to five creed more, I think fast where it's
going to hit home Because this isn't some obscure rifle
you have to go.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
You have to buy a rifle for some obscure caliber.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
Now, if you're be able to buy this ammunition, shoot
it out of your existing rifles, and now you'll get
to really see what we were trying to say a
couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
I will tell you this, I.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
Would and sill be.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
I'm curious to see what the field feedback is from
people that are shooting it. But some folks on some
back country had precision issues because you know, they're using
legacy barrel design, legacy barrel calmetry to stabilize some of this, uh,
you know, accelerate and projectile. And we'll see how it looks.
Is out of the six five that's.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Where the creed More because all the Creedmore barrels have
the faster twist and that's going to help there.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
And just so people understand, the six five creed More
in this new technology actually is throwing bullets faster than
the six five PRC. It's actually leaped right over that
one out of that smaller light or short action rifle.
Pretty amazing stuff, right.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
I Remember, if they're releasing this to the commer market
and they're telling you it's safe to put in, to
go buy it off the store and put it in
your rifle at home. You could probably assume that is
because it is significantly way under yield pressure for that case.
I'm not telling you to go load that case to
something crazy.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Don't do that.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
You did not hear that from Mike. I don't want responssibility,
but just assume that that is a little a very
low side of the capability of that case.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Well, I am in just slightss shift there. I am
at the point how where I think, okay, it's fine.
Time for me to get my truck gun. And a
truck gun these days is going to be an SBR
maybe with a folding stock.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I hadn't quite figured all that out. But you know,
the question becomes, you know, you could go at like
eight inch three hundred blackout or you know, twelve inch,
you know, five five six or whatever.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Lots of choices, you guys make all of.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
Those absolutely absolutely and honestly.
Speaker 6 (13:57):
Having a rifle caliber cartridge available in your in your vehicle,
that is, you know, a rifle set up for defensive
use in your vehicle.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Like I do not think as a bad idea.
Speaker 6 (14:09):
I know a lot of folks have rifles at home
to defend their home that's my nightstand is a short
m for I got a mark one by why that's in?
But I mean when you're out and around, I mean,
your probability of running into a defensive scenario away from
home is probably higher than yep, necessarily at home and
having a rifle, uh, having a rifle cartridge capable weapon,
(14:30):
it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It just gives you a lot more options. Hey, Uh,
Soun's alibertygunworks dot com.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Soun's Liberty gunworks dot com.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
There you go, Mike Bihosky, Thank you, sir. I appreciate
you sharing this information. It is an exciting time to
be in our business, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (14:45):
This is we're in a renaissance of We're in a
renaissance of small arms. It's and I'll tell you a
little sneak peak. Look, keep an eye on different rifling techniques,
rifling geometry, barrel materials, uh, plating coding techniques, and mind you,
some of us might have been playing with this stuff
for a long time. So I think people are gonna
be very excited once we can start talking about it.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Man, I wish you still drunk. I get you drunk
and get some stories out of here, but I missed
out on that one man. Take care all right? Next up,
it's your turn. What do you think of the new technology?
Are you excited about being able to get more velocity
out of your existing rifle?
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Speaker 5 (18:11):
All right?
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Back with you here, Tom Gresher. My number here is
the six to six Talk gun or Tom Talk Gun.
Get you in the same thing. Either way. Greg called
in out of Illinois. He's got a question for him.
Hey Greg, you're own gun Talk.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
How can we help?
Speaker 6 (18:25):
Hi?
Speaker 13 (18:25):
Tom? A couple of months ago on X you listed
all the nineteens that you own and what they were
chambered in, ten milimeter, nine milimeter, and of course forty
five ACP. But I was surprised that you didn't have
one chambered in thirty eight super and I just was
(18:48):
curious why. And I was also wondering if maybe you
would talk a little bit about that cartridge. I know
your audience is probably probably well aware of it, but
some few of us might not be. I just thought
it would be interesting.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Let me ask you, do you have a thirty eighth super?
Speaker 13 (19:07):
I do not, only forty five ACP for me so far?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Well why don't you?
Speaker 13 (19:16):
I saw that they had the Cold Commanders on sale
on one of the right big cellars, and yeah, I
should have probably probably should have pulled the.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Char Yeah, I get the I get those males too,
primarily like Prime Medestate, Armory.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
There's a couple of others.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yeah, it's like, look at that. Yeah, and if I
if I put I say, well, I'll get to that
in a minute, and I have a cup of coffee.
By the time I go back, it's already gone. They
sold the wall.
Speaker 13 (19:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking maybe my next one will be
maybe a nine milimeter. I know everybody says there.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
If you, if you like nineteen eleven pistols, a nine
millimeter is wonderful. The thirty eighth super is an interesting one,
and I am you know, I got to get somebody
on that really knows, because I can tell you what
I know, but about half of us is going to
be wrong.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I just don't know which half. That's the problem, right.
Speaker 13 (20:11):
Yeah, I know it's a hot cartridge, isn't it if
it's sloaded, correct?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
It is it is, it's a hot cartridge. It also
is popular in countries where you can't own a military
cartridge fire like a nine milimeter. There are countries where
you can't own a forty five or a nine because
those are military cartridges. So the thirty eighth Super is
popular there, in Mexico being one of those. And then
it became popular because in certain competitions in the US
(20:42):
they have power factor and you have to get over
a certain power factor and its scored a little bit differently,
and the thirty eighth Super was able to get the
power factor on that easier than trying to soup up
a nine milimeter and take it over pressure. So there's
been some there, some there, But then what I'm doing
you now have made me curious. Now I'm going to
(21:04):
go find somebody who really knows his or her way
around the thirty eighth Super and get an expert on
here and we'll both learn something.
Speaker 13 (21:12):
Okay, thank you, Tom, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Absolutely, I'll do that. Thank you for the nudge.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And yeah, while I did put something on X about
my nineteen eleven is trust me, I did not put
all of them there.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
But I do have tens, forty five's and nines. You
know what I don't have.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Browning has a nineteen eleven in three eighty and it's
like a I don't know, three quarter seven eighth size
nineteen eleven pistol, and she's the three eighty I don't have. Well,
I never could figure out why to have one. And
then I don't know why because I like to sig
(21:54):
nine thirty eight and they've got a nine thirty eight
and I came in with the other one. But they've
got in three eighties' a little bit of nineteen eleven,
like a super shrunk one. Michelle's over there, yelled at
me what it is. She'll know, she'll feet me under
in the break, But yeah, a little not a thirty eight,
(22:15):
or rather a three eighties.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Why not litil Brownie.
Speaker 5 (22:18):
I don't have that one.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I don't have a thirty eight super, don't have the
four sixty rowe ooh, we got to talk about that
sometimes too.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
That's a forty five.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Them steroids' getting basically forty four magnum velocity of power
out of a nineteen eleven that.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Sounds like fun. Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Big news this week with the introduction of the new
ammunition from Federal Cartridge. They call it the Plus Peak.
They're using a steel alloy for the cases. I keep
trying to say brass cases, but they're not brass. They're
steel alloy steal and the cases are at the higher
pressures so you get higher velocities, which brings a lot
(23:04):
of interesting possibility shorter barrels, shorter rifles, going with short
action rifles and getting magnum velocities out of them.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
It goes on and on.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
There's so many interesting things going on, and a lot
of other ancillary developments going on with barrels, barrel materials,
twist rates, etc. We'll talk about all of that in
just a minute. And Kennon met for dounk anywhere. I'm
gonna get you in just a second, But first I
want to see if I can help out. Doug online
two out of North Carolina. Hey, Doug, what do you
got there?
Speaker 14 (23:36):
Hey?
Speaker 7 (23:37):
I was gifted the eighteen eighty seven one Chester twelve
gage lever action shotgun from my own nice wonderful. Yeah,
it is very nice. It's the little research that I've
done with it. It's chambered in two and five eight shelves,
but naturally everything that I see is two and three quarters, right, mean,
(24:03):
there was guys when I was getting the Gun of Praise,
there were guys saying, oh, you should be fine to
shoot it, and then I'm seen on the internet don't
do it because of and I'm getting torn on both sides.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Okay, I got I got information for you.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
The chamber link, the two and five eighths or two
and three quarter is actually the length of the chamber
with after you fire the shell. And you know how
the crimp go falls outward and so the case is longer.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
After you shoot it.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Well, that's the actual link of the chamber is with
the crimp blown out. Having said that, if you were
to shoot low powered, low pressure two and three quarter
in shells in that, I think it'd be fine. Now,
all right, So that's one box checked. But if you
(25:04):
really want to make sure, there's an outfit where you
can go by two in five eight inch twelve gay
shotgun shells. Okay, it is RST for Romeo Sierra Tango
rstshells dot com. They're out of Pennsylvania and if you
go to r stshells dot com. You will see their
(25:27):
lineup and they have a lot of these different and
you may even decided to go with like a two
and a half inch twelve gay shell.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
That would work just fine in there too, because then.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
It would be a lighter generally just a lighter load.
Then by doing the tour lightload.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
The other thing is the issue is the reason it
would increase pressure is if the shot shell crimp folds
out and goes into the throat if you will, or
the beginning of the barrel and can't open quite enough,
that could cause pressures to spike a little bit. Our
short ershell guarantees that's not going to happen. I think
(26:07):
you're probably okay either way if you're not using magnet loads.
I'm using like lightweight target loads. But you know you're
probably not gonna shoot this gun a lot, but you
would like to shoot it. It's kind of a cool.
Speaker 7 (26:17):
Gun, yes it is. I want I want to at
least have a little couple of videos of it and
give it to show my uncle. My earfault him by
his great uncle or my great uncle that died in
seventy five, and he told me, my uncle told me
that he has never shot it since it was gifted
(26:39):
to him.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Oh wow, that would be cool.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Speaker 7 (26:47):
You got it a praise, Yes, I got it the
praise and they said it was an outstanding condition or
a good excellent can I forget exactly how it was praised,
but he said it was worth about fifteen hundred dollars,
so it was very gift from my uncle.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
All right.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
And Michelle is telling me that Fiochi makes low powered
shells and two and three quarter at shell so if
you can find the Fiochi low powered shells, you could
try that too. But either way you're going to have
fun with it and try RST shells or the fiochis.
Like I said, I think if you're using low power shells,
I think you're fine.
Speaker 7 (27:22):
Okay, Well, I appreciate that. I trust your word. Tom,
I appreciate everything that you do.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Well, thank you very much, and you have fun with
that thing. Tell you what after you shoot it, call
us back and give us the range report.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Okay, I will.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
I will, thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Sounds good, Thanks so much. All right, let's get to Ken.
He's been on home for a little while.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I know he's got something to say out of Metford, Oregon,
Ken you had the floor, sir, Yes.
Speaker 15 (27:47):
I would like to talk about this hypervelocity ammunition that
they're talking about building, or that they've actually made, the
aspects of this that people don't seem to be talking about.
Is it there? It's physics. It's like you have a reaction,
then you have an equal and opposite reaction. Do you
get this great velocity out of these crazy high pressures?
(28:10):
What about the recoil into that barril.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Recoil I've gotta go up.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
If you shoot the thing faster, faster bullet, just like
putting the magnum in there, you're going to have an
increase in recoil. That that's just as you say, that's
just physics. There's no way around that.
Speaker 15 (28:29):
Okay. But when you're talking about tripling the velocity, if
you think about reloading, which I do a lot of
and experimenting with trying to get as much velocity out
of a cartridge as I can, as you increase that velocity,
the recoil becomes substantial.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Well, we're not.
Speaker 15 (28:47):
Talking about significance. Is when you go to what is
real popular right now is a forty five to seventy round.
If you go out to max velocity on the forty
five seventy with basically a maximum load on a large
long barrel rifle, the recoil is pretty substantial. But you
(29:08):
put that into a twenty inch barre gun and it's
gonna knock you on your butt.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I've shot some lighter, shorter forty five seventies and they
do recoil. But let's back up. This load is only
three hundred feet per second faster. It's not triple velocity.
It's three hundred feet per second faster. And the sixty
five creed more. So it's a little faster and you're
gonna get a little bit more recoil, but it's not
gonna be a whole lot.
Speaker 15 (29:36):
Well, when you're talking about raising the pressure by three times, means.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
In the commercial characters that we have access to, it's
only going from like sixty thousand psi to eighty thousand psi.
So it's not a tripling of the pressure or the velocity.
Speaker 15 (30:02):
Well, the gentleman as you were speaking.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
To, oh, okay, oh, he was yeah, okay, he was
talking about the experimental stuff that the military is working with.
They got a whole different system of dealing with everything.
But trust me, we are never going to have access
to that AMO on the commercial civilian side. That's that's
not gonna happen. Probably eighty thousand PSI is going to
(30:26):
be the limit. So you know, you're going to basically
turn a seven mm eight into a seven mag or
thirty six into a three hundred mag which is kind
of cool, out of the same rifle. And yeah, they're
gonna get a little bit more recoil out of it,
but it's not going to be enough to you know,
and I understand what you're saying is that, Yeah, Mike
Malholsky was talking about the experimental stuff he's been working
(30:47):
with with the military. Let me also add this, there's
something else going on and in taming that higher velocity
hypervelocity if you will, Oh, it's not really hyper means
I time is the speech of sound, but it's very
fast higher velocity. They're going with this gain twist so
(31:09):
that when the bullet hits the barrel, there's virtually no
twist in the rifling, and that really helps keep the
pressure down the pressure spike, which also helps reduce the recoil.
But the reality is for the military everybody is shooting
the pressures in those guns, that's pretty much standard issue,
(31:33):
and they're shooting ten inch barrels a lot of these guns,
so you get a ten inch barrel and six inch
can and so yeah, there's more velocity, more pressure, but
it's kind of offset a bit by having the shorter barrels.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
But it's gonna be interesting to watch.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
But I think that's gonna be more of a spectator
sport for us to see what the military is doing
for us. We're gonna get some real nice advantages out
of the commercial side of things. And whether or not
we ever go beyond eighty thousand psi on our side
of things, I don't know. But for right now, in
the seven millimeters backcountry and in the six' five creed
(32:14):
more plus, peak we're looking at eighty thousand psi with
a roughly three hundred feet per second increase in the
same barrel. Length or you can hold the varsity and
cut the barrel off a lot and have a uch shorter,
barrel and that's what a lot of people are going
(32:34):
to be.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Doing So KENT i thank you for the call. Star
it's a it is an.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Issue oh you know what the other issue is everybody's asking,
about AND i have not addressed it, yet can you
reload these character's? Cases and the answer they're telling me
is yes you, can and people have been reloading the
seven millimeter back.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Country there are some things that.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Are quite different about, it and we'll be getting a
lot more information about reloading these as companies like OUR
cbs And hodgeden and others come out, with you, know
the correct dyes and presses and the load.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Data and everything.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Else but AS i understand, it And i'm just scratched
the surface of, this you really what you're really doing
with these is because, yeah the cartridge case will expand
a little, bit but not very. Much you're not really
resizing the whole. Case you essentially are maybe unclear on.
This maybe you're sizing the neck of the cartridge, case
(33:38):
but maybe that you're just putting a little bit of
a bell expanding the end of the cartridge case so
that you can get a bullet seated in. There in
a way that's a bit similar to how we do
straight wall handgun, cases where we beld the case, out
(33:58):
seat the bullet in and then you resize or you
cramp if you. Will sometimes you're. Cripping sometimes you're just
pushing that back. IN i think that's where we're going
to end, up but that's still to be. Determined AND
i know That, federal with this, technology is working with
the reloading companies to, say, look here's the, system and
(34:21):
here's what we're going to, do and here's how you reload.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Them What i'm not sure on yet.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
Is load.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Data and, frankly If i'm a company that makes powder
or bullets And i'm publishing load, data would it not
make you nervous to publish load data that's an eighty
THOUSAND psi load that people would look at that and, say,
(34:51):
oh that's a six five Creed more load and put
it in their regular six fi Creed more rifle using brass,
cases their regular brass case now exerting a good bit
more pressure to the rifle. ITSELF i don't. Know, well,
look we do know that some handloaders are probably already.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
There there are handloaders who, say, OH i can already
get those kind of velocities out of my. Rifle, yeah
you can by cranking the pressures. Up you're so far
over allowable safe pressures that you can't even see. Them
in in the rearview. Mirror you, know you Got Sammy
specks on all of, these and we don't. Know i'm
(35:33):
sure That federal and everybody's working On Sammy spex on
this new, Technology sammy being the organization that sets the
standards for.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
That what are the pressure? Limitations so many, questions but
so many. Possibilities can you imagine having a.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
A twelve or fourteen inch barrel rifle hunting rifle that
has the same velocity that you were getting with a
twenty inch barrel or twenty two inch barrel short. Light
now there's no reason really not to put a suppressor on, it, because,
FRANKLY i will tell you that's been my primary reason
for not doing it so far IS i don't want
(36:17):
to have a twenty six or a thirty inch barrel
with that can out.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
THERE i Just i'm not going to carry that.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Around but IF i go down to a fourteen inch
barrel and then put a suppressure on, it, going, Yeah
i'm liking that.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Idea so you, know this is all going to be very.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Interesting there's another possibility here, Too and Now i'm in
the world of spitballing with no knowledge, whatsoever Which, Hey
i'm a radio.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Talk show, guy SO i could do. That there's a
possibility That federal may limit.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Their factory loads for this technology to The creedmores and,
prcs that, is the cartridges that have come out in
the last ten years or so or twelve years if
whatever it is For creedmore the idea being that rifles
(37:18):
made for those in the last fifteen years we know
are not old versus say a thirty odd. Six if
you brought this out in an odd, six WHICH i would,
love you'd have a. Magnum but then somebody goes and
puts that inside of A grand or, something and, YEAH
i know they're saying that the cartridge case they're using
(37:41):
contains the pressure and so it's not really affecting the rifle.
ITSELF i don't know what that's going to do to
say an old er semi oto like A. Grand are
you going to have a faster bolt? Velocity don't. Know we,
are LIKE i, say more questions and answers at this,
(38:04):
POINT i do, think and WHEN i talk to people
who really know this, stuff they're in the heart of the.
Industry there's a real possibility we look back ten, fifteen
twenty years from now and, say you know when that
peak alloy technology came along that changed. Everything that means
(38:28):
that you're odd six isn't as good as it has always.
Been in your two seventy works just the same as
it always. Has but it does mean in terms of new,
guns new, rifles new, cartridges.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
This will have to be taken into. Consideration it also
means if.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
You Were for, INSTANCE i had a guy, say, HEY
i was thinking IF i get the sixty FIVE, prc
but why WOULD.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
I i can use this in my existing sixty five
Creed more and it outperforms THE.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Prc it's a magnum cartridge in my non magnum, rifle
which is really what it amounts.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
To it's very. Exciting LIKE i, SAY i don't know
where this is going to lead. US i am anxious
to find.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Out and, yeah it may cause me to go actually
get my first six to five Creed more, rifle BECAUSE
i admit, IT i don't current my own one BECAUSE
i couldn't see the point in.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
It, yeah NOW i.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Can all, right we're going to get more information about
this new federal cartridge and what's going, on and in
a few minutes we're going to have the president AND
ceo of The Kinetic group, here that is the group
(39:42):
that Owns Federal. Cartridge he will be talking about the
development of, it where the idea came, from who did,
it how it, worked and what does it?
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Mean what can you do with?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
This we'll have more in depth information because this is
this is the story of the, week maybe the story
of the heck it, is it's the story of the
year when it comes to the hardware of. Firearms when
we talked about that in just a few minutes with. Him,
obviously you can give us a call. Anytime eight six Six.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
Talk.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Gun jim is In, Medford oregan on. Too Hey, jim
you're On Gun. Talk what's on your, mind?
Speaker 6 (40:11):
Sir?
Speaker 14 (40:12):
Afternoon, mister how are you doing?
Speaker 4 (40:15):
That i'm? Great how can we?
Speaker 14 (40:17):
HELP i bought one of YOUR gt twenty five is
a long time ago when they first came, out AND
i was AND i heard you guys, talking heard you
talking about the cans and all, both and you, KNOW
i just happened to, think Does ruger make a barrel
for that that'll accept the?
Speaker 3 (40:34):
CAN i don't know If ruger, does but there are
a lot of companies that make aftermarket barrels for nineteen,
elevens AND i was just. Looking you, know you can
go To Midway arms Or MIDWAY, usa Or Brown els
or any number of places and you can get a
threaded barrel for a ten milimeters nineteen eleven and it's
(40:55):
generally just a drop, in replace the barrel and you're
good to.
Speaker 14 (40:57):
Go oh, okay CAN i ask you one more?
Speaker 5 (41:01):
Question you?
Speaker 14 (41:02):
BET i sent you a text, earlier BUT i don't
know if you got it to The senate on the
work a, Lot but it Wasn't Harmy dillon on your
show here a few weeks.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Back, Yes i've had herund a couple of.
Speaker 7 (41:15):
Times, YEAH i thought she.
Speaker 14 (41:18):
Was have you ever heard anything about all the gun
stuff she was talking about overturning for trying to.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
Overturn.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Oh, yeah she's working hard on it and going After right.
Now she's telling Our virginia rather that as soon as
your new gun ban goes into Effect july, one The
department Of justice will be suing The state Of virginia
to block their ban ON aar fifteens and standard capacity.
Magazine so she's working on a whole bunch of, stuff
(41:47):
and primarily on the state, level and so, yeah there's
a lot of things going on. There it's an exciting.
Time it's not as much as we would, like but
it's more than we ever had.
Speaker 14 (41:59):
Before, okay if you hear of any news that comes
up from, that which are you're going to put it
on the? Show?
Speaker 4 (42:06):
YEAH i have AND i do.
Speaker 13 (42:07):
So.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, Sorry i'll keep you posted and we'll let you
know what. Happens but, yes she, has for, instance sued
sheriff's departments who are dragging their heels and putting out
the concealed carry permits and gotten them to.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
FOLD a couple of.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Times she's gone in and say you, know you can't
be doing, that and they'll, go, oh, okay, fine now
that you're paying attention to, us you know we're gonna undo.
That so, yeah there are a lot of those. Stories
if you'll follow me over ON x that's one of
the better places BECAUSE i put a lot of stories up.
THERE i linked to. Stories there's just too. MUCH i
can't cover it all in what we do, here and
(42:44):
So i've kind of expanded over TO. X we're putting
a lot of stories out, there and you, know ALL
i do is find the stories and link to, them
so that if you follow me ON, X i'm at
gun talk ON. X you know you used to Be,
twitter you will be very well. Informed so that's kind
of the other way to. Go there's also one other
RESOURCE i would recommend for anybody if you're really into,
(43:07):
this you're really Into Second amendment news and want to
know what's going. On Steve katowski started a service about
three years ago called The. Reload it's thereload dot. Com
it's a subscription based email newsletter AND i can't. REMEMBER
i think it's like ten dollars a, month not a,
lot and you will get these stories of what's going
(43:31):
on with really, good insightful articles and news. Reports SO
i would highly recommend THAT i definitely Use steve's. Service
The reload a good bit When i'm prepping for. HERE
i try to give them credit WHENEVER i think of
it and try to make sure that people know what
a good job they're doing over.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
There The reload Dot. Com all, right don't go.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Far when we come, back we're going to have THE
ceo from The Kinetic group explaining where did this news
technology come from and where is it?
Speaker 4 (43:57):
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
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Speaker 3 (00:31):
All right, welcome back to gun Talk. I'm Tom Gresham.
Give you a call an eight sixty six talk gun.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I'll get you in here.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Of course, we had the big news we had just
about an hour ago about Federal introducing a six y
five creed more character. They call it the plus peak
using their peak alloy steel alloy steel case eighty thousand
psi three hundred to four hundred baby more than that
psi or rather free per second increase. And a guy
who's been shooting some high pressure ammo for quite some
(00:59):
time because he gets to work with all the secret
squirrel stuff. Mike Howsky from Sons of Liberty Gun Works
joins us right now. Mike, how you doing, partner?
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Doing well? Tom?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Thanks for having me, do you bet? Absolutely so? All right,
just go back up for people that may not know.
Although you're cutting a big white swath these days, sons
of Liberty gun Works, you make some really need high
end in four AR fifteen of course the full auto stuff,
because you're working with a lot of military guys these days.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
We are.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
We've had some we've we've had some big wins and
cool places.
Speaker 7 (01:32):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Yeah, you want to tell us a little bit about
a couple of those.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Well, we were.
Speaker 6 (01:37):
We recently announced in I guess November, uh that our
Mark one which was submitted for the Combat Assault Rifle,
the car that we were awarded for that program. And
there's some other needs stuff out there. We've been in
some competitive downs, like some stuff we have not announced.
We have been playing in some very cool spaces and
(01:59):
we're out for pretty far out front.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
There's stuff I don't there's stuff you can't talk about.
I get it, I get it, okay. But having said that,
you got this federal announcement of this. Of course, last
year we had the seven milimeters back country, so eighty
thousand PSI, and then now we got the six point
five creed more eighty thousand psi. We're getting more pressure
and more velocity. And the question I have the first
(02:24):
question I had for them, and let me ask you
because I know you've been working with this, and they said, yeah,
you could use this in a regular gun because it
doesn't affect the gun. What have you been seeing?
Speaker 5 (02:35):
So there is some truth to that.
Speaker 6 (02:36):
There is some truth that that Keese technology is amazing,
so anybody doesn't understand it. Peak alloy is is like
a steel a steel alloy case, but unlike traditional steel cases,
this case can expand to steal on the internal wall
of that chamber, much like brass.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
That steel can expand.
Speaker 6 (03:00):
That expansion inside the chamber is taking off quite a
bit of bolt thrus so that bolt is not having
to absorb all of that eighty thousand psi as significant
amoma is absorbed by the friction that creates when it
seals inside the chamber. On top of that, that case
is so strong. It's so strong that it contains that
(03:23):
pressure quite well. If you tried doing that with brass,
I would not want to be I would not want
my face near the gun.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Yeah, okay, case is strong.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
All right, So the case is actually carrying a lot
of the pressure. So it's safe to shoot this in
a regular gun at eighty thousand. But that's not the limit,
because I know people have been people like oh, Mike,
who I'm talking to you right now and then playing
with much higher internal pressure cases because the military goes
way out there to kind of stretch the boundaries.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
So what have you been messing with?
Speaker 6 (03:57):
Well, so in the experimental phase, all I can say
is we've pushed ammunition considerably, considerably higher than eighty thousand,
way higher.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
I mean, I have to be.
Speaker 6 (04:08):
Careful when I say there, but let me just tell
you there's a there's a one and other zeros behind that,
you know, so so, But but with a with all
that being said, like now, yes, is that cartridge safe
to fire in a regular gun if there are no
bore obstructions.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
And you have a quality made firearm, you know, is
there a safety concern? No? Now, what kind of groups
will you get out of it?
Speaker 6 (04:34):
Well, we'll tell you that that blood accelerating that pact number,
all of that acceleration is happening almost instant. The way
these cases work and the way this ammunition works, all
of that pressure and all that acceleration is almost instant,
the peak pressure inside the barrel is much more dramatic
up and down than say, you know, most of your
factory loads, so that that pressure is not remaining high
(04:57):
that the powder burns so fast and so so efficient
that the potter's burned out sooner in that boar. And
see on a lot of your other slower powder, slower
like legacy propellants. No, No, With all that said, if
there's a bore obstruction, and then well you're that's a
kind of an issue that the weapons not a quality weapon.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Well that's an issue.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Too, of course that I mean, that's the same no
matter what you're shooting, you've got a more obstruction.
Speaker 6 (05:23):
You got a real problem, right, But the most weapons
are meant to contain or to you know, kind of
correctional because let's say, if you're shooting an AAR fifteen
and you're shooting fifty five thousand psi two two three am,
and you have a bore obstruction, well, it's going to
blow the floor plate out of the gun. You know,
you might break the extractor off or something. If you're
(05:44):
shooting let's say, you know, I don't know, two three
times higher than that or something like that. You have
a bore obstruction, Well you might get excited if the
weapon's not built to you, you know, with with with
that in the right, with someone having thought about that.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
You know, we just we just saw what you did there.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
When you say fifty five thousand, if you're shooting two
or three times, that that gives me you didn't say it,
But I'm just gonna make a guess that there's something
out there that's really smoking.
Speaker 6 (06:12):
I mean, you know, I mean the idea in anything experimental,
some of the stuff that we've played with in the
experimental phase, the idea is truly to push the envelope
and then whatever you see that that is more for
like data discovery, whatever ends up getting fielded or used
will probably be significantly under yielding.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Sure you take it to and then you back off,
then you back.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
It down, right.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
So but I think people would be surprised at how
how impressive this ammunition really is.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
When seven back Country came out, man, I saw a lot.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
Of people discusting in online and dismissing it, and it
was really frustrating because I was already working on some
of these projects back then and I wanted to just
shout out, I mean, you're looking at the future. Yeah,
you're looking at like this when this train leaves the
station and ain't never coming back. This is the future
of what ammunition is.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Okay, And I asked the guy at Faedross said, and
it's kind of rhetorical, but it's kind of not.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
It's like, okay, if you can get more.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Velocity, not just a little bit, but a whole lot
more velocity, shoot it out of the same gun. You
didn't even have to change your gun. The question then becomes,
why would you shoot any other ammo?
Speaker 5 (07:20):
You would? You wouldn't.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Here's the here's what I predict and I'm making a wild,
crazy prediction just from the outside looking at me.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Okay, I predict that if you can.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
Achieve adequate velocities in shorter guns, and then all of
a sudden, that twenty four inch thirty two inch barrel
whatever becomes almost quite unnecessary. If the velocities you're getting
out of a sixteen inch rifle, now remember the majority
of the weight and the weapon's going to be in
the barrel of the.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Barrels was a significant amount.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Right, Let's say you're able to get adequate velocity out
of much shorter barrels.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
Well, you're going to see the entire weapons systems start
to strength.
Speaker 6 (07:58):
Not only are you going to see rifles getting shorter,
but the optics getting shorter. Everything's going to be convincing.
And if I go into like the ar space where
I played in the in the gas gun, you know,
kind of a fighting rifle. You know, if you're getting
twenty inch velocities out of a ten inch gun, and
you know you can take that weapon and fight inside
(08:20):
a house, and you can also use it for you know,
reckie DMR or sniper precision rifle.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
You know, well what even guns are going to look like?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Well, that's an interesting idea, is that through the advent
of this new technology and AMMO, we're going to change
the way rifles look.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Absolutely.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
I think you're going to change the way optics look,
thermals look uh. I mean, everything's enough to get small
putting on a smaller gun and then you know, I
mean the expectation of being able to like your mack
point blank or how far you know, even an untrained
rifleman could just hold on target and pull the trigger.
I mean, this is what we've been talking about when
(08:58):
we're saying we're working on the increased lethality of the platform.
It's you know, lethality starts being able to hit the
target first, you know, so extending ranges to which there's
not a lot of thinking and calculation going involved. And
then you know, then of course what the bullet does,
you know, upon an impact. But it's a it's a
(09:18):
really neat time to be in the small arms game, you.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Know, like I'm thinking about in my Honting experience, you
go way back to Roy Weatherby and particularly the two
fifty seven weather Be great cartridge. But a lot of
people poop PuO it. They go, well, it's not a
high BC bullet, that said, I tell them.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
I can hold on to four hundred yards and not
even have to think about it. I don't even worry
about it. Just hold on, hit your target. That's really
kind of what you're talking about here.
Speaker 6 (09:42):
Yeah, and if that deer was standing on two legs
and you know, yeah shoo match it, yeah, shooting back
at you. I mean, you know what the idea is
to increase heat, increase hit probability, you know, maintain short
weapons for maneuverability and weights.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
And then this ammunition is significantly lighter than brass.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Right, so the amount of ammunition that you know a
soldier to carry, you know, the equivalent to certain them
is lighter than brass.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
There's a whole lot.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
Of good stuff around this, m Ando. I'm saying that
train has left the station. You were looking at the
future of ammunition technology and has it all right?
Speaker 3 (10:18):
So I could see shorter cartridges because of the efficiency,
which leads to shorter actions, which at leads to smaller
guns and just shorter packages, and as you saying, and
then everything else that gets attached to it. So here's
the question for you. And now we have no tax
on SBRs. What do you see in the world of
just consumers, not militay consumers being interested in SBRs these days?
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Well, so it's it's twofold.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
So you have no tax on there's no more taxamp
trailer tax SAMP on SBRs, and the e forms are
coming back so fast that you know, people are waiting
less than the week. So you've taken off the two
biggest barriers to entry into the NFA game and is
seeing an explosion of short burrow guns suppressors. There's look
how many suppressor options that are now more than ever
(11:08):
in any time in my career. Everybody's kind of getting
into it. Number One, there's some neat technology out there,
but also it's never been easier or faster super to.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
Own to own some of this stuff.
Speaker 6 (11:18):
So I mean it is I mean, you know, the
income and use argument is going to be real hard
to yeah pretty soon.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
You know, you got these over barrels, suppressures that basically
kind of go back over the barrel, so you have
not very much sticking out beyond it. So imagine a
twelve or fourteen inch barrel in your hunting gun or
your defensive gun with a can that only goes out
four inches, but you get the effectiveness of a six
raateeds can on it. It's just changing an awful lot
of things in.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
A hurry, Absolutely absolutely, and I think people are just
not kind of scratching the surface. Again when I when
I saw this technology first release out in the sun
back country, it was dismissed. I think now in the
six to five creed more, I think fast where it's
going to hit home Because this isn't some obscure rifle
you have to go.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
You have to buy a rifle for some obscure caliber.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
Now, if you're be able to buy this ammunition, shoot
it out of your existing rifles, and now you'll get
to really see what we were trying to say a
couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
I will tell you this, I.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
Would and sill be.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
I'm curious to see what the field feedback is from
people that are shooting it. But some folks on some
back country had precision issues because you know, they're using
legacy barrel design, legacy barrel calmetry to stabilize some of this, uh,
you know, accelerate and projectile. And we'll see how it looks.
Is out of the six five that's.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Where the creed More because all the Creedmore barrels have
the faster twist and that's going to help there.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
And just so people understand, the six five creed More
in this new technology actually is throwing bullets faster than
the six five PRC. It's actually leaped right over that
one out of that smaller light or short action rifle.
Pretty amazing stuff, right.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
I Remember, if they're releasing this to the commer market
and they're telling you it's safe to put in, to
go buy it off the store and put it in
your rifle at home. You could probably assume that is
because it is significantly way under yield pressure for that case.
I'm not telling you to go load that case to
something crazy.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Don't do that.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
You did not hear that from Mike. I don't want responssibility,
but just assume that that is a little a very
low side of the capability of that case.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Well, I am in just slightss shift there. I am
at the point how where I think, okay, it's fine.
Time for me to get my truck gun. And a
truck gun these days is going to be an SBR
maybe with a folding stock.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I hadn't quite figured all that out. But you know,
the question becomes, you know, you could go at like
eight inch three hundred blackout or you know, twelve inch,
you know, five five six or whatever.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Lots of choices, you guys make all of.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
Those absolutely absolutely and honestly.
Speaker 6 (13:57):
Having a rifle caliber cartridge available in your in your vehicle,
that is, you know, a rifle set up for defensive
use in your vehicle.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Like I do not think as a bad idea.
Speaker 6 (14:09):
I know a lot of folks have rifles at home
to defend their home that's my nightstand is a short
m for I got a mark one by why that's in?
But I mean when you're out and around, I mean,
your probability of running into a defensive scenario away from
home is probably higher than yep, necessarily at home and
having a rifle, uh, having a rifle cartridge capable weapon,
(14:30):
it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It just gives you a lot more options. Hey, Uh,
Soun's alibertygunworks dot com.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Soun's Liberty gunworks dot com.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
There you go, Mike Bihosky, Thank you, sir. I appreciate
you sharing this information. It is an exciting time to
be in our business, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (14:45):
This is we're in a renaissance of We're in a
renaissance of small arms. It's and I'll tell you a
little sneak peak. Look, keep an eye on different rifling techniques,
rifling geometry, barrel materials, uh, plating coding techniques, and mind you,
some of us might have been playing with this stuff
for a long time. So I think people are gonna
be very excited once we can start talking about it.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Man, I wish you still drunk. I get you drunk
and get some stories out of here, but I missed
out on that one man. Take care all right? Next up,
it's your turn. What do you think of the new technology?
Are you excited about being able to get more velocity
out of your existing rifle?
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Speaker 10 (16:25):
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Speaker 5 (17:54):
Two.
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Speaker 5 (18:11):
All right?
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Back with you here, Tom Gresher. My number here is
the six to six Talk gun or Tom Talk Gun.
Get you in the same thing. Either way. Greg called
in out of Illinois. He's got a question for him.
Hey Greg, you're own gun Talk.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
How can we help?
Speaker 6 (18:25):
Hi?
Speaker 13 (18:25):
Tom? A couple of months ago on X you listed
all the nineteens that you own and what they were
chambered in, ten milimeter, nine milimeter, and of course forty
five ACP. But I was surprised that you didn't have
one chambered in thirty eight super and I just was
(18:48):
curious why. And I was also wondering if maybe you
would talk a little bit about that cartridge. I know
your audience is probably probably well aware of it, but
some few of us might not be. I just thought
it would be interesting.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Let me ask you, do you have a thirty eighth super?
Speaker 13 (19:07):
I do not, only forty five ACP for me so far?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Well why don't you?
Speaker 13 (19:16):
I saw that they had the Cold Commanders on sale
on one of the right big cellars, and yeah, I
should have probably probably should have pulled the.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Char Yeah, I get the I get those males too,
primarily like Prime Medestate, Armory.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
There's a couple of others.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yeah, it's like, look at that. Yeah, and if I
if I put I say, well, I'll get to that
in a minute, and I have a cup of coffee.
By the time I go back, it's already gone. They
sold the wall.
Speaker 13 (19:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking maybe my next one will be
maybe a nine milimeter. I know everybody says there.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
If you, if you like nineteen eleven pistols, a nine
millimeter is wonderful. The thirty eighth super is an interesting one,
and I am you know, I got to get somebody
on that really knows, because I can tell you what
I know, but about half of us is going to
be wrong.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I just don't know which half. That's the problem, right.
Speaker 13 (20:11):
Yeah, I know it's a hot cartridge, isn't it if
it's sloaded, correct?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
It is it is, it's a hot cartridge. It also
is popular in countries where you can't own a military
cartridge fire like a nine milimeter. There are countries where
you can't own a forty five or a nine because
those are military cartridges. So the thirty eighth Super is
popular there, in Mexico being one of those. And then
it became popular because in certain competitions in the US
(20:42):
they have power factor and you have to get over
a certain power factor and its scored a little bit differently,
and the thirty eighth Super was able to get the
power factor on that easier than trying to soup up
a nine milimeter and take it over pressure. So there's
been some there, some there, But then what I'm doing
you now have made me curious. Now I'm going to
(21:04):
go find somebody who really knows his or her way
around the thirty eighth Super and get an expert on
here and we'll both learn something.
Speaker 13 (21:12):
Okay, thank you, Tom, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Absolutely, I'll do that. Thank you for the nudge.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And yeah, while I did put something on X about
my nineteen eleven is trust me, I did not put
all of them there.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
But I do have tens, forty five's and nines. You
know what I don't have.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Browning has a nineteen eleven in three eighty and it's
like a I don't know, three quarter seven eighth size
nineteen eleven pistol, and she's the three eighty I don't have. Well,
I never could figure out why to have one. And
then I don't know why because I like to sig
(21:54):
nine thirty eight and they've got a nine thirty eight
and I came in with the other one. But they've
got in three eighties' a little bit of nineteen eleven,
like a super shrunk one. Michelle's over there, yelled at
me what it is. She'll know, she'll feet me under
in the break, But yeah, a little not a thirty eight,
(22:15):
or rather a three eighties.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Why not litil Brownie.
Speaker 5 (22:18):
I don't have that one.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I don't have a thirty eight super, don't have the
four sixty rowe ooh, we got to talk about that
sometimes too.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
That's a forty five.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Them steroids' getting basically forty four magnum velocity of power
out of a nineteen eleven that.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Sounds like fun. Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Big news this week with the introduction of the new
ammunition from Federal Cartridge. They call it the Plus Peak.
They're using a steel alloy for the cases. I keep
trying to say brass cases, but they're not brass. They're
steel alloy steal and the cases are at the higher
pressures so you get higher velocities, which brings a lot
(23:04):
of interesting possibility shorter barrels, shorter rifles, going with short
action rifles and getting magnum velocities out of them.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
It goes on and on.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
There's so many interesting things going on, and a lot
of other ancillary developments going on with barrels, barrel materials,
twist rates, etc. We'll talk about all of that in
just a minute. And Kennon met for dounk anywhere. I'm
gonna get you in just a second, But first I
want to see if I can help out. Doug online
two out of North Carolina. Hey, Doug, what do you
got there?
Speaker 14 (23:36):
Hey?
Speaker 7 (23:37):
I was gifted the eighteen eighty seven one Chester twelve
gage lever action shotgun from my own nice wonderful. Yeah,
it is very nice. It's the little research that I've
done with it. It's chambered in two and five eight shelves,
but naturally everything that I see is two and three quarters, right, mean,
(24:03):
there was guys when I was getting the Gun of Praise,
there were guys saying, oh, you should be fine to
shoot it, and then I'm seen on the internet don't
do it because of and I'm getting torn on both sides.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Okay, I got I got information for you.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
The chamber link, the two and five eighths or two
and three quarter is actually the length of the chamber
with after you fire the shell. And you know how
the crimp go falls outward and so the case is longer.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
After you shoot it.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Well, that's the actual link of the chamber is with
the crimp blown out. Having said that, if you were
to shoot low powered, low pressure two and three quarter
in shells in that, I think it'd be fine. Now,
all right, So that's one box checked. But if you
(25:04):
really want to make sure, there's an outfit where you
can go by two in five eight inch twelve gay
shotgun shells. Okay, it is RST for Romeo Sierra Tango
rstshells dot com. They're out of Pennsylvania and if you
go to r stshells dot com. You will see their
(25:27):
lineup and they have a lot of these different and
you may even decided to go with like a two
and a half inch twelve gay shell.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
That would work just fine in there too, because then.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
It would be a lighter generally just a lighter load.
Then by doing the tour lightload.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
The other thing is the issue is the reason it
would increase pressure is if the shot shell crimp folds
out and goes into the throat if you will, or
the beginning of the barrel and can't open quite enough,
that could cause pressures to spike a little bit. Our
short ershell guarantees that's not going to happen. I think
(26:07):
you're probably okay either way if you're not using magnet loads.
I'm using like lightweight target loads. But you know you're
probably not gonna shoot this gun a lot, but you
would like to shoot it. It's kind of a cool.
Speaker 7 (26:17):
Gun, yes it is. I want I want to at
least have a little couple of videos of it and
give it to show my uncle. My earfault him by
his great uncle or my great uncle that died in
seventy five, and he told me, my uncle told me
that he has never shot it since it was gifted
(26:39):
to him.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Oh wow, that would be cool.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Speaker 7 (26:47):
You got it a praise, Yes, I got it the
praise and they said it was an outstanding condition or
a good excellent can I forget exactly how it was praised,
but he said it was worth about fifteen hundred dollars,
so it was very gift from my uncle.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
All right.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
And Michelle is telling me that Fiochi makes low powered
shells and two and three quarter at shell so if
you can find the Fiochi low powered shells, you could
try that too. But either way you're going to have
fun with it and try RST shells or the fiochis.
Like I said, I think if you're using low power shells,
I think you're fine.
Speaker 7 (27:22):
Okay, Well, I appreciate that. I trust your word. Tom,
I appreciate everything that you do.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Well, thank you very much, and you have fun with
that thing. Tell you what after you shoot it, call
us back and give us the range report.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Okay, I will.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
I will, thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Sounds good, Thanks so much. All right, let's get to Ken.
He's been on home for a little while.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I know he's got something to say out of Metford, Oregon,
Ken you had the floor, sir, Yes.
Speaker 15 (27:47):
I would like to talk about this hypervelocity ammunition that
they're talking about building, or that they've actually made, the
aspects of this that people don't seem to be talking about.
Is it there? It's physics. It's like you have a reaction,
then you have an equal and opposite reaction. Do you
get this great velocity out of these crazy high pressures?
(28:10):
What about the recoil into that barril.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Recoil I've gotta go up.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
If you shoot the thing faster, faster bullet, just like
putting the magnum in there, you're going to have an
increase in recoil. That that's just as you say, that's
just physics. There's no way around that.
Speaker 15 (28:29):
Okay. But when you're talking about tripling the velocity, if
you think about reloading, which I do a lot of
and experimenting with trying to get as much velocity out
of a cartridge as I can, as you increase that velocity,
the recoil becomes substantial.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Well, we're not.
Speaker 15 (28:47):
Talking about significance. Is when you go to what is
real popular right now is a forty five to seventy round.
If you go out to max velocity on the forty
five seventy with basically a maximum load on a large
long barrel rifle, the recoil is pretty substantial. But you
(29:08):
put that into a twenty inch barre gun and it's
gonna knock you on your butt.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
I've shot some lighter, shorter forty five seventies and they
do recoil. But let's back up. This load is only
three hundred feet per second faster. It's not triple velocity.
It's three hundred feet per second faster. And the sixty
five creed more. So it's a little faster and you're
gonna get a little bit more recoil, but it's not
gonna be a whole lot.
Speaker 15 (29:36):
Well, when you're talking about raising the pressure by three times, means.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
In the commercial characters that we have access to, it's
only going from like sixty thousand psi to eighty thousand psi.
So it's not a tripling of the pressure or the velocity.
Speaker 15 (30:02):
Well, the gentleman as you were speaking.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
To, oh, okay, oh, he was yeah, okay, he was
talking about the experimental stuff that the military is working with.
They got a whole different system of dealing with everything.
But trust me, we are never going to have access
to that AMO on the commercial civilian side. That's that's
not gonna happen. Probably eighty thousand PSI is going to
(30:26):
be the limit. So you know, you're going to basically
turn a seven mm eight into a seven mag or
thirty six into a three hundred mag which is kind
of cool, out of the same rifle. And yeah, they're
gonna get a little bit more recoil out of it,
but it's not going to be enough to you know,
and I understand what you're saying is that, Yeah, Mike
Malholsky was talking about the experimental stuff he's been working
(30:47):
with with the military. Let me also add this, there's
something else going on and in taming that higher velocity
hypervelocity if you will, Oh, it's not really hyper means
I time is the speech of sound, but it's very
fast higher velocity. They're going with this gain twist so
(31:09):
that when the bullet hits the barrel, there's virtually no
twist in the rifling, and that really helps keep the
pressure down the pressure spike, which also helps reduce the recoil.
But the reality is for the military everybody is shooting
the pressures in those guns, that's pretty much standard issue,
(31:33):
and they're shooting ten inch barrels a lot of these guns,
so you get a ten inch barrel and six inch
can and so yeah, there's more velocity, more pressure, but
it's kind of offset a bit by having the shorter barrels.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
But it's gonna be interesting to watch.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
But I think that's gonna be more of a spectator
sport for us to see what the military is doing
for us. We're gonna get some real nice advantages out
of the commercial side of things. And whether or not
we ever go beyond eighty thousand psi on our side
of things, I don't know. But for right now, in
the seven millimeters backcountry and in the six' five creed
(32:14):
more plus, peak we're looking at eighty thousand psi with
a roughly three hundred feet per second increase in the
same barrel. Length or you can hold the varsity and
cut the barrel off a lot and have a uch shorter,
barrel and that's what a lot of people are going
(32:34):
to be.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Doing So KENT i thank you for the call. Star
it's a it is an.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Issue oh you know what the other issue is everybody's asking,
about AND i have not addressed it, yet can you
reload these character's? Cases and the answer they're telling me
is yes you, can and people have been reloading the
seven millimeter back.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Country there are some things that.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Are quite different about, it and we'll be getting a
lot more information about reloading these as companies like OUR
cbs And hodgeden and others come out, with you, know
the correct dyes and presses and the load.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Data and everything.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Else but AS i understand, it And i'm just scratched
the surface of, this you really what you're really doing
with these is because, yeah the cartridge case will expand
a little, bit but not very. Much you're not really
resizing the whole. Case you essentially are maybe unclear on.
This maybe you're sizing the neck of the cartridge, case
(33:38):
but maybe that you're just putting a little bit of
a bell expanding the end of the cartridge case so
that you can get a bullet seated in. There in
a way that's a bit similar to how we do
straight wall handgun, cases where we beld the case, out
(33:58):
seat the bullet in and then you resize or you
cramp if you. Will sometimes you're. Cripping sometimes you're just
pushing that back. IN i think that's where we're going
to end, up but that's still to be. Determined AND
i know That, federal with this, technology is working with
the reloading companies to, say, look here's the, system and
(34:21):
here's what we're going to, do and here's how you reload.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Them What i'm not sure on yet.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
Is load.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Data and, frankly If i'm a company that makes powder
or bullets And i'm publishing load, data would it not
make you nervous to publish load data that's an eighty
THOUSAND psi load that people would look at that and, say,
(34:51):
oh that's a six five Creed more load and put
it in their regular six fi Creed more rifle using brass,
cases their regular brass case now exerting a good bit
more pressure to the rifle. ITSELF i don't. Know, well,
look we do know that some handloaders are probably already.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
There there are handloaders who, say, OH i can already
get those kind of velocities out of my. Rifle, yeah
you can by cranking the pressures. Up you're so far
over allowable safe pressures that you can't even see. Them
in in the rearview. Mirror you, know you Got Sammy
specks on all of, these and we don't. Know i'm
(35:33):
sure That federal and everybody's working On Sammy spex on
this new, Technology sammy being the organization that sets the
standards for.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
That what are the pressure? Limitations so many, questions but
so many. Possibilities can you imagine having a.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
A twelve or fourteen inch barrel rifle hunting rifle that
has the same velocity that you were getting with a
twenty inch barrel or twenty two inch barrel short. Light
now there's no reason really not to put a suppressor on, it, because,
FRANKLY i will tell you that's been my primary reason
for not doing it so far IS i don't want
(36:17):
to have a twenty six or a thirty inch barrel
with that can out.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
THERE i Just i'm not going to carry that.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Around but IF i go down to a fourteen inch
barrel and then put a suppressure on, it, going, Yeah
i'm liking that.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Idea so you, know this is all going to be very.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Interesting there's another possibility here, Too and Now i'm in
the world of spitballing with no knowledge, whatsoever Which, Hey
i'm a radio.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Talk show, guy SO i could do. That there's a
possibility That federal may limit.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Their factory loads for this technology to The creedmores and,
prcs that, is the cartridges that have come out in
the last ten years or so or twelve years if
whatever it is For creedmore the idea being that rifles
(37:18):
made for those in the last fifteen years we know
are not old versus say a thirty odd. Six if
you brought this out in an odd, six WHICH i would,
love you'd have a. Magnum but then somebody goes and
puts that inside of A grand or, something and, YEAH
i know they're saying that the cartridge case they're using
(37:41):
contains the pressure and so it's not really affecting the rifle.
ITSELF i don't know what that's going to do to
say an old er semi oto like A. Grand are
you going to have a faster bolt? Velocity don't. Know we,
are LIKE i, say more questions and answers at this,
(38:04):
POINT i do, think and WHEN i talk to people
who really know this, stuff they're in the heart of the.
Industry there's a real possibility we look back ten, fifteen
twenty years from now and, say you know when that
peak alloy technology came along that changed. Everything that means
(38:28):
that you're odd six isn't as good as it has always.
Been in your two seventy works just the same as
it always. Has but it does mean in terms of new,
guns new, rifles new, cartridges.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
This will have to be taken into. Consideration it also
means if.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
You Were for, INSTANCE i had a guy, say, HEY
i was thinking IF i get the sixty FIVE, prc
but why WOULD.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
I i can use this in my existing sixty five
Creed more and it outperforms THE.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Prc it's a magnum cartridge in my non magnum, rifle
which is really what it amounts.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
To it's very. Exciting LIKE i, SAY i don't know
where this is going to lead. US i am anxious
to find.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Out and, yeah it may cause me to go actually
get my first six to five Creed more, rifle BECAUSE
i admit, IT i don't current my own one BECAUSE
i couldn't see the point in.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
It, yeah NOW i.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Can all, right we're going to get more information about
this new federal cartridge and what's going, on and in
a few minutes we're going to have the president AND
ceo of The Kinetic group, here that is the group
(39:42):
that Owns Federal. Cartridge he will be talking about the
development of, it where the idea came, from who did,
it how it, worked and what does it?
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Mean what can you do with?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
This we'll have more in depth information because this is
this is the story of the, week maybe the story
of the heck it, is it's the story of the
year when it comes to the hardware of. Firearms when
we talked about that in just a few minutes with. Him,
obviously you can give us a call. Anytime eight six Six.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
Talk.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Gun jim is In, Medford oregan on. Too Hey, jim
you're On Gun. Talk what's on your, mind?
Speaker 6 (40:11):
Sir?
Speaker 14 (40:12):
Afternoon, mister how are you doing?
Speaker 4 (40:15):
That i'm? Great how can we?
Speaker 14 (40:17):
HELP i bought one of YOUR gt twenty five is
a long time ago when they first came, out AND
i was AND i heard you guys, talking heard you
talking about the cans and all, both and you, KNOW
i just happened to, think Does ruger make a barrel
for that that'll accept the?
Speaker 3 (40:34):
CAN i don't know If ruger, does but there are
a lot of companies that make aftermarket barrels for nineteen,
elevens AND i was just. Looking you, know you can
go To Midway arms Or MIDWAY, usa Or Brown els
or any number of places and you can get a
threaded barrel for a ten milimeters nineteen eleven and it's
(40:55):
generally just a drop, in replace the barrel and you're
good to.
Speaker 14 (40:57):
Go oh, okay CAN i ask you one more?
Speaker 5 (41:01):
Question you?
Speaker 14 (41:02):
BET i sent you a text, earlier BUT i don't
know if you got it to The senate on the
work a, Lot but it Wasn't Harmy dillon on your
show here a few weeks.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
Back, Yes i've had herund a couple of.
Speaker 7 (41:15):
Times, YEAH i thought she.
Speaker 14 (41:18):
Was have you ever heard anything about all the gun
stuff she was talking about overturning for trying to.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
Overturn.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Oh, yeah she's working hard on it and going After right.
Now she's telling Our virginia rather that as soon as
your new gun ban goes into Effect july, one The
department Of justice will be suing The state Of virginia
to block their ban ON aar fifteens and standard capacity.
Magazine so she's working on a whole bunch of, stuff
(41:47):
and primarily on the state, level and so, yeah there's
a lot of things going on. There it's an exciting.
Time it's not as much as we would, like but
it's more than we ever had.
Speaker 14 (41:59):
Before, okay if you hear of any news that comes
up from, that which are you're going to put it
on the? Show?
Speaker 4 (42:06):
YEAH i have AND i do.
Speaker 13 (42:07):
So.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, Sorry i'll keep you posted and we'll let you
know what. Happens but, yes she, has for, instance sued
sheriff's departments who are dragging their heels and putting out
the concealed carry permits and gotten them to.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
FOLD a couple of.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Times she's gone in and say you, know you can't
be doing, that and they'll, go, oh, okay, fine now
that you're paying attention to, us you know we're gonna undo.
That so, yeah there are a lot of those. Stories
if you'll follow me over ON x that's one of
the better places BECAUSE i put a lot of stories up.
THERE i linked to. Stories there's just too. MUCH i
can't cover it all in what we do, here and
(42:44):
So i've kind of expanded over TO. X we're putting
a lot of stories out, there and you, know ALL
i do is find the stories and link to, them
so that if you follow me ON, X i'm at
gun talk ON. X you know you used to Be,
twitter you will be very well. Informed so that's kind
of the other way to. Go there's also one other
RESOURCE i would recommend for anybody if you're really into,
(43:07):
this you're really Into Second amendment news and want to
know what's going. On Steve katowski started a service about
three years ago called The. Reload it's thereload dot. Com
it's a subscription based email newsletter AND i can't. REMEMBER
i think it's like ten dollars a, month not a,
lot and you will get these stories of what's going
(43:31):
on with really, good insightful articles and news. Reports SO
i would highly recommend THAT i definitely Use steve's. Service
The reload a good bit When i'm prepping for. HERE
i try to give them credit WHENEVER i think of
it and try to make sure that people know what
a good job they're doing over.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
There The reload Dot. Com all, right don't go.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Far when we come, back we're going to have THE
ceo from The Kinetic group explaining where did this news
technology come from and where is it?
Speaker 4 (43:57):
Going exciting stuff
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