May 31, 2026 • 44 mins
In This Hour:
-- Virginia passed a new ban on common rifles and pistols, but a number of prosecutors have pledged to not enforce the law, saying it is unconstitutional. Philip Van Cleeve of the Virginia Citizen's Defense League explains where this is going.
-- Serious shooters constantly look for the next gun, whether something old and historic or new and innovative. What are some of the options?
-- How old should a daughter be before she can start learning to shoot?
Gun Talk 05.31.26 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- Virginia passed a new ban on common rifles and pistols, but a number of prosecutors have pledged to not enforce the law, saying it is unconstitutional. Philip Van Cleeve of the Virginia Citizen's Defense League explains where this is going.
-- Serious shooters constantly look for the next gun, whether something old and historic or new and innovative. What are some of the options?
-- How old should a daughter be before she can start learning to shoot?
Gun Talk 05.31.26 Hour 1
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 4 (00:48):
He was the first and he's still the best. For
thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
all things mollistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection part
of it. Paul Tom Talk Gun. Now, here's Tom.
Speaker 5 (01:08):
It's that time again. It's time for gun Talk. I'm
Tom Gresham your host. We're gonna be talking about guns
and the Second Amendment and handguns, rifles, pistols.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I don't care what it is.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
If it's a gun or ammo, we will talk about
it here and you can be part of it. Give
me a call it, Tom talk Gun. That's the magic
number here. Now, there's stuff going on everywhere in the
gun rights world, but it seems like at the very moment,
Virginia is the hotbed of that. And a couple of
days ago I was able to grab Philip Vancleeve from
(01:39):
the Virginia Citizens Defense League to bring us up to
date on that. It's hot stuff. Listen to this all right,
A lot of us are watching what's going on in Virginia.
It's been a little bit crazy, the results of an
election gone bat and you've got a band coming forward
on semi automatics and magazine limits and everything else. In
the Virginia Citizens Devents League, it's on top of it,
(02:01):
and there's a lot of stuff going on. Joining me
right now is Philip van Cleeve, the head of the
vcd L. Philip, I caught you in the middle of this.
I think I broke in right between meetings you're having.
But like, as of this moment, you got all sorts
of stuff going on. You want to bring us up
to speed.
Speaker 6 (02:16):
Yeah, it's a real circus here. I think it's interesting
that I think they made a mistake in doing.
Speaker 7 (02:21):
This in Virginia.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Man.
Speaker 6 (02:22):
First of all, it's where vcdl's home is, It's where
the NRA's home is, it's where the goa's home is.
Speaker 7 (02:28):
We have all these states filing lawsuits.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
We and GOA are filing in the state, owners are
filling federally, and Hamid Dylan is going to step in
probably in early July, once it becomes enforceable law.
Speaker 7 (02:41):
Right, Yeah, different angle.
Speaker 6 (02:43):
She's gonna come in I think saying, hey, you're now
that you can enforce this, We're not going to let
you enforce it. So we'll see. It's gonna be it's
gonna be very interesting. But I don't know if you
probably have seen the breaking news. Yes, our state police
along with the Attorney General, just thumb their nose at
at a judge and said, well, we don't care about
your injunction on universal background checks. We're going to start
(03:04):
doing them anyhow. I've never seen that happen before, So
things are really going to get explosive here. We have
filed a suit basically going back to that judge saying,
you know, contemptive court on the State Police here.
Speaker 7 (03:17):
So we'll know about that pretty soon.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
So you and I are talking like on Thursday before
the show here, I just want people to understand because
things may have changed by the time this gets to air.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It's entirely likely that things worth changed.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
And I want everybody to follow what's going on at
VCDL and over on X where I'm posting things as well.
But the idea that the state and the State Police
would say, yeah, I'm sorry, judge, we don't really care
what you say. We're going to ignore your injunction. We're
going to continue to enforce the law that you said
we shouldn't enforce. That's just plumb crazy.
Speaker 7 (03:50):
That is absolutely crazy.
Speaker 6 (03:51):
And then again, these are the same Democrats that knew
that when they tried to redistrict Virginia from a six
to five Democrat republic and representation.
Speaker 7 (04:01):
In the House, that they wanted to make it ten
to one.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
They knew they.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
Didn't do it right, and our Supreme Court in Virginia
struck it down, you know, to the surprise of no one,
but I guess the Democrats.
Speaker 7 (04:14):
They thought they were gonna get away with it and now.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
And then then you had to take it to the
US Supreme Court. The supreme US Supreme Court says not no,
but hell no, because by the way, those are the
you who took civics know that the US Supreme Court
doesn't get involved in those state issues. So when the
state supreme court said it's unconstitutional, that's it.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
Yeah, it's over.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
It's got nothing to do with At that point, that
was just hell and Mary pass I guess by the Democrats.
And not only that, the other thing we've got working
for us now is now we've got seven, at least
seven and this may be going up. We have seven
commonwealth attorneys. Those are our you know, prosecutors in Virginia.
Seven of them are saying we are not going to
prosecute the assault weapon ban or the ban on carrying
(04:58):
assault weapons.
Speaker 7 (04:59):
We're not going to to do it.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
And the General Assembly like and our Attorney General is
a joke.
Speaker 7 (05:07):
He was all said.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
About that, but he didn't care that the common Wealth
attorney in Fairfax wasn't prosecuting illegal.
Speaker 7 (05:14):
Aliens when they were doing things wrong.
Speaker 6 (05:16):
That was okay, but heaven forbid that we protect the
Second Amendment.
Speaker 7 (05:21):
But that's I mean, this is a battle royale. What
really is something to be a part of this?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Just describe it.
Speaker 5 (05:27):
Because those of us on the outside, we're walking here
and thinking, well, wow, this is really interesting and there's
a liberal fight going on. I get the sense that
you are like running through an inferno all the time,
and there's just fires going on, and the people have
awakened and realized what's actually happening.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And the people in Virginia.
Speaker 6 (05:45):
Yes, oh absolutely, and even across the country, their eyes
are on Virginia. Part of it is because we're not
a deep blue state. We're actually mostly red if you
were to look at it from a satellite, but if
nothing else, you could say we're purple. But we're not
deep blue. So all this gun control coming in all
in one year, not spread out over a decade, coming
(06:06):
in all at once. That's went up circuits across the
country on this everybody's watching Virginia because they know if
it can happen.
Speaker 7 (06:13):
Here, it could happen anywhere.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Now, basically, the Democrats weeded out all the non far
left wing wing Democrats. They weeded them out, So now
we've got people our Senate vote had a zero percent
pro gun voting record this year zero not once did
and forty bills not once did any of them vote correctly.
And the Republicans had almost all have one hundred percent.
(06:37):
Some were in the mid nineties. But I mean, it's
like night and day. And keep in mind that back
in ninety five we had the Democrats controlled the House
and the Senate. We had a Republican governor back then,
and that's when we went from.
Speaker 7 (06:50):
Mayasure to shallashing.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
Nowadays, we can't get the mildest gun rights bill passed
any of the Democrats in the Senate and the majority
in the House.
Speaker 7 (07:01):
And he had one in the House that had.
Speaker 6 (07:02):
A forty one percent voting record. What he's all by himself,
floating in the middle.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
So where do you think the populace is now? After
ye had this election? Spenberger got elected by pretending she
was a moderate, which she was a crazy leftist radical
nut job. And now that is out, people are seeing
who she is. What's the mood now?
Speaker 6 (07:26):
Well, it's even her own site is mad at her
for other things she's done. Where she's they felt they've
been stabbed in the back with the other things. But
we call her grab agale Banburger.
Speaker 7 (07:39):
But yeah, no she's not.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
She is tremendously unpopular all the way around. Everybody's got
buyer's remorse. And I think again, I think this would
not have happened if the Red Areas had come out
and voted and we were warning gun owners.
Speaker 7 (07:56):
You know, we need to wake up hunters.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
They're part of the biggest problem here because they rarely
get involved.
Speaker 7 (08:01):
But man, there was no excuse for this.
Speaker 6 (08:03):
We could with all the gun owners in the Red Areas,
we could have stopped this from happening. So if they
sat back, I guess they thought Trump was elected so
they had nothing else to do anyhow, And now they're
learning civics. Oh well, like you said earlier, you know civics.
You got the federal government, but you got state governments,
and most gun control that we all live with are
actually at the state level. You know, I have the
(08:26):
same rights the youth in federally, but if I tried
to open carry in New York State, let's see what
happens to me there.
Speaker 7 (08:33):
It's not federal law.
Speaker 8 (08:34):
It's going to get me new.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
York state law. Right.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
I felt, if you've been at this a long time
and you really understand politics, and you're talking about the
election and the way that the red voters did not
turn out, and now we're looking at the midterms coming up,
and I'm wondering, could this be the warning that awakens
(08:57):
voters around the country to say, Wow, look what you
happened in Virginia, primarily because hunters and gun owners just
sat back and said, well, we're living in the age
of Trump.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Why worry?
Speaker 7 (09:08):
Yeah, I think it will.
Speaker 6 (09:09):
I think a lot of people again, they're looking at
Virginia and go, how did this happen in Virginia? And
here in Virginia, I think people are going, now, we've
had enough of all of this. So yeah, I think
it could could very well have that and the fact
that the Democrats didn't get their way with that ten
to one redistricting, the jerrymandering, they lost on that big time,
(09:30):
and that will also help.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
So all right, so you've got lawsuits against well, let's
back up, let's not assume that people know what just happened.
If you would just run through quickly the laws that
were just signed into effect by Spenberger.
Speaker 7 (09:49):
Okay, effect of July one, most of these if you
ar ars.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
I should say, you know, assault rifles and assault firearms
as we call them there Virginia law have been redefined
and it covers a rifle with one attribute, most of
the ones we're familiar with, you know, a pistol grip
or threaded barrel. For handguns, it's two attributes. And shotguns
have now come in. So this is again where we're
telling the hunters you don't think they're coming after you.
(10:17):
They just did with shotguns. A lot of shotguns are
going to be banned. So what will happen is you
can keep what you got it's been grandfathered, but no
new sault firearms will be available in Virginia. You can't
sell the ones you got except to an FFL, but
you can't sell it to anybody else. You can't buy
any new ones. Magazines are limited to fifteen rounds after
(10:38):
July one.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
If you have them before July.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
One, you can keep them, you can carry them, but
you can't buy new ones that are over fifteen rounds
after July one. You can't carry in a saft firearm
in public on any public road, any public alley, any
public place open to the public of whatever nature. Can't
do that, but you can transport meaning unloaded, locked up
in the trunk where it does the logo. You can transport,
(11:02):
but you can't carry. They just didn't like gunnars showing
up that lobby day and uh, you know, standing on
you you know, and carry goes, oh no, we can't.
There have been zero problems, right, well, you know that's
never been an issue with VCO, No problems all these years.
That doesn't matter, is you and I both know this
is about civilian disarmament. It's not about crime. It's not
(11:23):
about making things safer. We know that they're letting people
out of prison early. No, they don't care about public safety.
That's an excuse to disarm us. That's the end goal.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
And one of the lives they tell when they say, oh, yeah,
well we're gonna let you keep what you have, that's
on me, grandfather. That's until next year, where they say, well,
you know, clearly, if it's too dangerous for you to
be able to buy, it's too dangerous for you to
be able to own, so you're gonna have to turn
them all in.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That will come not only.
Speaker 6 (11:49):
That, not only that, Tom, but who are we to say, okay, good,
my gun's and grandfather.
Speaker 7 (11:53):
It's a lot of good. I'm I'm not gonna worry
about this. That is so an American.
Speaker 6 (11:57):
Who are we to tell the next generation you can't
have the same guns that I have because I'm not
going to stand up and fight for you because I
get to keep my guns.
Speaker 7 (12:05):
That's beloney.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
I'm glad you know they didn't dare come and do
a confestation this year, but you're right, that's where they
would head it. They're given the chance, and we cannot
let this stand. The next generation needs to buy the
same guns that we have, and maybe even better guns.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
You mentioned the lawsuits and you got NRAGA, Second Amendment, Foundation,
Fire's Policy Coalection VCDL. It's one of the reasons I
keep telling people you must belong to these groups because
it takes an enormous amount of money to challenge and
we're challenging it on the state level, challenging on the
federal level. And you got this Partment of Justice that
the moment that these laws become effective July one, then
(12:44):
Harmy Dillon walks in the door and.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Says, cease and desist that DOJ has arrived.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Yes, right, And it's like forty thousand dollars just to
walk in the door on a lossuit, just to walk
in the door. And these things can go on for years.
We have that universal back prod check that they're now defined. Well,
we're going after that. Just a contiguous battle. We had
another women in the city of Winchester. I don't say
we sue Winchester because people were going, why would you
(13:10):
see a gun manufacturer? No, this is the city of Winchester.
Speaker 7 (13:14):
We just fad a.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
But when there they were saying, no guns in our
parking garage is owned by the city.
Speaker 7 (13:21):
Well, that's not a sensitive area. And we won that.
They backed down and blinked and got rid of the band.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Oh before before I let you go here, I want
to remind people that you know, you do not have
to be a citizen of the Commonwealth of Virginia to
belong to and support a bcd L. You can live
anywhere in the country and you can be a member
and you can send money to help with a fight.
That way, you keep the fight of Virginia and keep
it from Uzziah into your state.
Speaker 7 (13:45):
That's fine, we'll do that, We'll fight for you.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
But yeah, we welcome members from out of state absolutely,
because what happens here, will spread it.
Speaker 7 (13:53):
We don't put the brakes on it.
Speaker 6 (13:54):
And those people from Virginia we're talking about leaving going
to another state.
Speaker 7 (13:57):
You don't ever win a war by retreating.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
And our founding fathers would stood on you for leaving
this state just because he didn't like the gun laws
that had changed.
Speaker 7 (14:05):
You should be here fighting with us to get these sticks.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
There you go, Philip Banklay, thank you so much for
doing what you're doing and keeping us posted on what's
going on. All right, don't go far, we'll be right
back with more gun talk.
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Speaker 5 (17:01):
Alrighty, let's do this thing. I'm Tom Gresha, I'm your host.
We're gonna be all over the place today, so just
dive into the middle of it. Didn't really matter because
I don't really have a theme or a plan. Well
I never have a plan. So if there's something you
want to talk about, give you a call. We'll talk
about it. Doesn't matter if it's a rifle of pistol,
a shotgun, a carrying technique, a holster, about sporting stuff,
(17:26):
sporting clay's clay, target shooting, long range rifles. O o
ooh there's something coming. Oh and give me a week,
give me a week. We've got some stuff to talk about.
It's gonna be really cool. Our number here, by the way,
is the eight sixty six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun,
and we're gonna be talking well in the next hour.
(17:49):
Cover the subject that I brought up on X that
start up a lot of people is a tax on
guns unconstitutional. You know, we already have one. We have
for a hundred years. It's an eleven percent excise tax
(18:10):
and long guns, ten percent on handguns, eleven percent on
AMMO that we pay. We'll talk about that a good
bit next hour. Over the last few weeks, we have
had several, I mean like maybe nine or ten instances
of good guys with a gun saving people and sometimes
(18:31):
by shooting them, sometimes by just getting a gun out
and pointed at somebody. We had one just a couple
days ago where good guys guy was shooting at people.
Good guys pointed the guns at the sky and he
just gave up. And not only did you give up,
he shot himself. Yep, that works, that'll work too. We
had an armed marine veteran in Cambridge, Massachusetts a couple
(18:56):
of three weeks ago stopped a guy. This guy with
in a middle traffic and he's shooting a rifle and
he's shooting fifty I think he ended up shooting fifty
to sixty rounds, hit a dozen vehicles, and he was
engaged by a Massachusetts State Police trooper. And then he
(19:17):
was joined by a former marine, just a good guy
with a gun who joins the fight, joins them with
the trooper joins by coming in at a different angle.
And he shooting at this guy. And let me just
tell you, two people shooting back is not twice as good.
(19:41):
It's like ten times as good. The multiplier effect is enormous,
especially if you can cut angles. You can get a
different angle. If you have a chance to work on this,
should you be with somebody you know, or even joining
up with an office or something. If you can get
(20:01):
a little separation and then you're working from different angles,
it makes a big difference.
Speaker 7 (20:07):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
The equation and I'm reading his story says well changed
the equation was a civilian, a marine veteran legally carrying
under a Massachusetts license to carry law, who moved toward
the shooter instead of moving away from him. The marine
engaged the gunman, and according to Middlesex County District Attorney
Mary and Ryan helped to get people out of the
(20:31):
area by drawing the shooter's attention. You know, having two
people shoot back at the bad guy does in fact.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Divert his attention. We see it over and over again.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Basically, when the good guy shows up, the bad guy says, oh,
that's not what I counted on. There's some takeaways from
this instance of the marine joining the officer. I'm reading
a story by Jay Paulson and he said, look, training
is the variable, not the gun.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Says.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
The DA didn't credit the Marines caliber holster or carry methods.
She credited his training. Spend money and time on instruction.
Just position an angle matter as much as marksmanship. I
don't know about that, but it matters. Marksmanship is important.
Movement beats freezing. Yeah, don't just stand there. Most people
don't train for that. Most people shoot on a square
(21:24):
range or an indoor range where they can't move around.
Try to find a place where you can go and train,
where you can shoot and move, or get some training
from a place where you can shoot and move, or
you can shoot and go down on her knee, or
shoot and go down on two knees. Or shoot and
go down prone and continue to shoot, or lay down
and shoot underneath a car. Ooh, never thought of that one,
(21:49):
did you? You lay down and the guys on the
other side of the car, you lay down, shoot underneath
the car and shoot him in the ankle. I think
you just got his attention. Yes, guaranteed. These are the
things you learn when you take these classes. We had
another thing out of a pleasant hill in Missouri just
a few days ago. A guy was starting to shoot
a place up and good guys show up, two of them,
(22:13):
and they approached him, and there are some shots fired,
and all of a sudden, this guy decides he's gonna
take himself out. The police chief credits the two good
guys who have guns. Good guys with guns firing back
are resisting stop mass murders. It's what stops mass murders
(22:34):
faster than anything we know about, and we know it
from the empirical data of this out there. So the
question is are you carrying? What are you carrying? And
how are you prepared mentally for a situation like that?
Give you a shout at Tom talk gun.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Ah, Yes, it's spring.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
One of young men's turn to well, no, all of
us actually turns to what's the next gun?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I'm going to buy it? Yeah? I know, And it's.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
An interesting question. There are so many out there and
so many new ones coming out all the time. So
the question is you're thinking about maybe something historical and
cool and old and neat, or looking at some of
the new things that are out double Stack nineteen eleven,
or new cartes or calibers, just wondering. Also, there are,
(23:29):
for lack of a better term, some weird calibers out there,
and I guess weird depends on your perspective, and you know,
it could be something old European, you know, nine three
by sixty two or whatever, or even some of the
US calibers. I mean some people think of two fifty
seven Robberts.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Its weird.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Or some of the new things, the new the Creed
Wars and the others. Would one of those be on
your shopping list? Or are even better? Do you own
something that people keep saying, what is that? Why do
you own that? What's that good for? So I'd love
to know about that, what caliber? What cartridge is your
wife with chamber for? That makes people scratch their heads
(24:08):
and go one world. Our number of course is Tom
Talk Gun Let's go grab Stu out of Georgia. Hey Stu,
your own gun talk. What's cooking?
Speaker 9 (24:17):
Well?
Speaker 12 (24:18):
Hi there, I wanted to give you a big thumbs
up on the Shooting Sport live streaming channel. I've had
a chance to enjoy it for the past week or so.
It captures all of the it captures all the best
of the Wednesday night at the Range outdoor channel programming,
as you might recall as you once had a show
on that evening. Yeah, and I like the way it
(24:41):
highlights the guns and the technologies and the modifications with
this billbox show for example. I'm hoping though that you
all might consider it getting into real world scenarios. A
lot of people are buying subcompact nine millimeters in three eighties.
You're not gun people necessarily, and you know, there's only
(25:04):
so many scenarios where a gun like that is appropriate
for me. It's not so much of fight but a
flight gun, whereas if I had a big, hulking handgun
but with lots of rounds, that would be I want
to see perspectives like that in real world scenarios for
programming on that channel. Other than that, it's all thumbs
(25:25):
up on it. Ryan's great, although that haircut of his
deserves a nice loud electric guitar. Anyway, Well, you know.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
And the funny part is, as you look at this,
you'll realize that some of these shows are from a
few years ago, and the hairstyle will change as you
see different programs. Let me ask you, where did you
Those who don't know, we're talking about Shooting Sports Life.
It's our new full streaming channel. In the old style
of streaming, it's just one show after another, the way
(25:56):
that networks used to be, rather than just clicking and
choosing and you just turn it on and see what's
going to be on. So there are a lot of
different platforms available.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
How did you add it to your TV? How do
you watch it?
Speaker 12 (26:08):
Well, there's something called FREEBTV that I caught it on.
There's some flaws with the Roku set up, but once
I get my smart TV program just right, I can
go straight to the channel. It would be nice to
see it as an independent channel away from the streaming services,
but I understand why it has to be dealt with
(26:30):
that way. Being a former broadcaster myself, I know things
like that have to be done a certain way, but
mostly it was freeb TV where I caught it. I
enjoyed the programming a lot.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
You know, I'm just thinking, if you like scenario based stuff,
are you familiar with our first Person Defender series?
Speaker 12 (26:50):
I will look for it right after I talk to you.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
Okay, we've been doing that for I don't know, probably
fifteen years now. We take regular people and drop them
into a force on force scenario and they get attacked,
something happens, and then we see how they do, and
then we coach them up a little bit and see
how they improve. It is available on our channels, YouTube
channels at all, and I'm sure we'll be included with
the Shooting Sports Life show as we go forward. But
(27:17):
you know, it's brand new, and you being out, you know,
experienced and broadcast, you understand it's like, Okay, we're.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Trying to make this work.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
We're going to put all these pieces in and then
we just keep being able to get a little bit
of a time. And I like where it is now,
but it just gets better month by month.
Speaker 12 (27:33):
Yeah, it reminds me all the fun stuff like with
the Michael Bains shows and of course shooting Usay, I'm
not so much into the sport of target shooting and
that sort of thing. But it's fun to watch that too,
But I really want to know about scenarios and defense
and things like that. And this looks like it's covering
pretty well.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
It is thanks to I appreciate it. I appreciate the
comments on that. And for those who don't know, you
can go to Shootings Shooting SportsLife dot com see what
we're talking about and they'll show you where to go
and how to get the show. Okay, let me find this.
Oh there it is. Okay, remember god, it's got to
(28:12):
be fifteen twenty years ago. Now the video of the
dea cop who's talking in front of a class and he says,
you know, I'm the only one in this room qualified
to have a glock forty that he promptly shoots himself
in the foot.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
We made a lot of fun of that.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Well, now we had kind of a variation on that.
And where was this boardman? I don't know where board
and a fin further out it's a store in Boardman.
I don't have the state on this story. Oh well,
sorry about that. But this guy goes into the store.
(28:47):
He's got a burst of three eighty pistol loaded and
he's wanted to buy a holster and he goes in
and the clerk says, we need to check your gun,
you know, just to make sure it's unloaded. And the
customer says, I'm allowed to carry. So he's already he's
got offended, and Clark says, well, you know, we do
need to check your gun. If you've got to go
(29:08):
buy holster, fort we need to check. And then the
customer proclaims says I'm not stupid, says I know I'm
not going to bring a loaded gun into the store, says.
The story goes on and says the employee said he
took the customer's gun, And this is where it gets
really interesting. He says he charged the slide back twice,
(29:30):
pointing it down into the left, and then the writer
goes into passive voice. A round was discharged from the pistol,
shattering a nearby glass display case. Another employee, standing roughly
twenty feet away was grazed by the gunfire and was
taken to the hospital with a non life threatening injury
(29:51):
to his arm. Well, I would offer that a round
was not discharged. It's not a case passive. Somebody pulled
the trigger on the gun and made it go bang.
And the way they're writing it up, it almost sounds
like the employee had the gun and racked the slide
a couple of times and then pulled the trigger, which
(30:13):
makes it sound like there was a full magazine.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And I don't know what was going on.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
So you got the guy the customer who comes in
and proclaims that he's not stupid, he knows not to
bring a loaded gun in the store, and it's loaded,
of course. And then you got an employee who's racking
the slide, possibly without removing the magazine first. You know,
there's a certain order you have to do this. You
can't rack the slide and then take the magazine out
and pull the trigger and expect it not to go bang,
(30:40):
because that's just how things work. So there's a lot
of questions about this. I would offer that this is
yet another example of why we have the four rules
of gun safety. All guns are always loaded, Never point
a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy, keep
(31:01):
your finger off the trigger until your sites are on
the target. And number four, make sure of your target
and what's behind it. If you screw up on some
of them, but you still are obeying some of them.
You probably won't shoot anybody, especially if you do the whole.
(31:21):
Don't point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy.
What does that mean in real world terms? In real practice,
it means you become like some kind of weird religious
zealot about muscle discipline, even with an unloaded gun, even
(31:45):
when you're being cared, even if you got the slide
locked back. When you need to move a gun from
pointing over there to pointing over there, you don't swing
it past people. He goes down to the floor, points
to the floor, He moves around, so that at any
point along the way, if it goes bang, it's not
gonna hit somebody. At no point along its movement does
(32:07):
it ever point at you or anybody else. You just
become so adamant about it that you would never think
about casually moving the gun. You also, by the way,
no dangling, Okay, when you're out the range, you'll see people,
they'll shoot, and then the bank anyaby bank guns empty,
(32:28):
and then they drop the gun to their side and
it's just dangling down there at the end of their
arm where they're walking around. It's guns just dangling all
over the place. No, it's a firearm. It's always a gun.
Point it with purpose. Yes, I know you shot it.
It's unloaded, slides locked back. Point it somewhere. Don't just
(32:50):
dangle it. For heaven's sakes, be in control of your gun.
Where's the muscle pointed at any given time? Where where
is the muzzle pointed? Simple as that. Let's go talk
to John and Dallas online three. He's got a range
report for us. Hey, John, welcome the gun talk.
Speaker 13 (33:11):
Hey, thanks for having me back. Hey, So here's my
mini range report on that five hundred magnum performance center.
I told you about a couple of weeks. Yes, yeah,
I'll be honest, though I was. I was a little
disappointed in the AMMO. I feel like in the past,
I have a few different five hundred magnums, but my
eight and three eighth inch barrel, the first time I
(33:32):
shot it was with some Winchester silver tips, and man,
when you touched off that round, you can feel the
concussion and it is quite the ride. But that was,
you know, fifteen years ago. Now with this performance center,
with this particular AMMO, this HSM, you know it, it shoots,
(33:52):
But I feel like it was kind of weak sauce.
So I was shooting two rounds of three hundred grain
excuse me, three hundred and thirty grain hard cast lead,
and then a four hundred and forty grain barrel load,
also hard cast lad, and it just I don't know,
I've fired a lot of five hundred magnum. To me,
I didn'tchrono it, but it's all kind of like weak sauce.
(34:14):
So I was a bit disappointed.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
Did you check that What does HSM say on their
website about the velocity?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
They should have velocity published.
Speaker 13 (34:23):
The correct So the four hundred and forty grain, it's
supposed to be sixteen hundred feet per second, and they
say it's out of an eight and three eighth inch barrel.
My original smith will listened, but out of this ten
and a half inch barrel. I just felt like, you know,
I fired forty four magnum that had more recoil. Oh,
(34:44):
and secondly, I should mention it was funny. I was
shooting it with my friend yesterday and they kicked this
off the pistol range because people three lanes down had
complained there's too much quash too loud.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Oh, I got a question for you.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Now is the luck you got to Did you say
a ten inch barrel on this one?
Speaker 13 (35:04):
Yeah, it's ten and a half inch the Performance Center model.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
Okay, have you shot other AMMO in it? I'm wondering
if if there's some part of this equation that the
longer barrel is reducing the felt.
Speaker 13 (35:17):
Recoil, Yes, sir, and not only that when it comes
to feeling the recoil in the power, Yes, it's the grant,
the mass of the bullet, the type of powder they use,
the velocity, and also you're right, the length of the barrel,
the weight of the gun, plus the scope. So yeah,
it absorbed a bit of the recoil. But man, I'm
(35:38):
looking back to when I first shot my first five
hundred magneum like, wow, this is surely can take it.
Speaker 12 (35:45):
Out Grizzly Bear.
Speaker 13 (35:45):
But you know, if you want to get that that
jolt and ride that fun recoil that ammos hsm at
least in this platform, wasn't it well as interesting?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
They kicked you off the range because your gun's too loud.
Speaker 13 (36:00):
Yeah, well they moved me over to the rifle range.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Well that's okay. It is almost a rifle around. So
the question is Are you enjoying that revolver?
Speaker 13 (36:11):
I do? I do.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Now.
Speaker 13 (36:12):
We were just shooting an offhand, So I was shooting
at twenty yards and actually with that rifle scope. I
didn't tell you it's a rifle scope, not a pistol scope.
But I used it as a red dot, and just
with using it as a red dot, the illuminated radical,
I was hitting a center mask at twenty yards. So
if it was a charging bear, it'd be okay. But
this type of gun is meant to be shot off
(36:34):
of bipod or sticks, and we were just shooting it
off hands.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, that thing is set up for hunting.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
It wouldn't be your typical gun you would carry for
bear protection, not with a.
Speaker 13 (36:44):
Barrel that long, right right, Well, you couldn't technically carry it.
It's got a slip. You could technically carry it.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
But that's that.
Speaker 13 (36:54):
You know, it's a fun gun. And I would recommend
for those out there who are listening, if you ever
try a big magnum like that X frame, the four
sixty or five hundred, start with one round in the
cylinder first, because there's a phenomenon where a new shooter
if you're not gripping it right, you'll double tap it
and we put up two rounds at one time, and
(37:14):
you won't even know.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Oh you'll know.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
You are do it on purpose, but you'll know the
two went off because that is a lot of recoil.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
What a great writing report.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
I appreciate that, sir, and I would offer if anybody's
interested in that type revolver. The big X frame, the
five hundred is the biggest and it hits the hardest,
but the four sixty Smith and Wesson Magnum is a
heck of a round. It shoots flatter, I think it
has a little bit less recoil. And the other benefit
(37:48):
is it's actually forty five caliber, and in the four
sixty Smith and Wesson revolver, it's kind of like a
three fifty seven magnum where you can shoot thirty eight
specials in it. In the four sixty you can shoot
four to fifty four casoole and forty five Colt. So
if you don't want to shoot the real big heavy
(38:09):
recoiling rounds all the time, you can back all the
way off to like Cowboy Action forty five colt and
those will be pussy catloads in that big heavy revolver.
And now you're talking about a lot of fun to shoot,
because even a four to fifty four cassoole is a
pretty powerful round. But you shoot forty five's in there
(38:29):
and you go, yeah, this is nice. I'm liking that.
So I would just offer that any I know, I know,
I know, you get bragging rights by having the five hundred,
get it. I understand that, and I've shot them, I've
owned them and actually have one, but I don't shoot
it much because it's not a lot of fun to
(38:49):
just go out and shoot. Now, it's a great hunting
rig if you want to hunt with a revolver, that's
a great rig for that.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
But in terms of having a bit more versative.
Speaker 5 (39:00):
Tilloty, I would go with the four sixty and then
have the option of four fifty four cassoole in forty
five cold. You know what the other thing is, you're
liable to find some four or fifty four cassuole ammo
being offered at discount from people who bought one of
those revolvers, shot it for a while and said this
is too much recoil for me. They sold their gun.
(39:22):
Now they got this leftover cassoole AMMO and you might
be able to pick some of that up for a song.
It happens, and you can feed it into that big
revolver and shoot it with.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
No problem at all.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
All Right, the number here eight sixty six Talk gun
or Tom Talk Gun. I'm Tom Gresham. This is gun talk.
So how old or how young is too old or
too young to start? Somebody out? Ryan's got the question.
(39:54):
Hey Ryan in Carson State, Nevada. You're on the air.
Tell me about it.
Speaker 8 (40:00):
Ryan here with my nine year old daughter, Raylan, and
we were listening to your rules of gun safety. And
I think that, by the way, I really love that segment.
Thank you for that. Sitting here with my nine year
old daughter, Raylan though, and talking about when do we
start training her the gun safety laws and learning how
to shoot and going to the range.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
In your opinion, Well, Raylan, what does she want to do?
That's the real question.
Speaker 8 (40:29):
I want to say. Hi, go ahead, Tom.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
I just wonder now, okay, So Ryan, does she want
to does she want to start shooting? Now?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Do?
Speaker 7 (40:42):
I mean?
Speaker 5 (40:42):
Because you know, it's one thing for us to say yeah,
now's the time for you to start. It's another thing
for them to say yeah, I'm ready, or I don't
really want to do it yet.
Speaker 8 (40:52):
I would say. I just asked her after your segment
and she said twelve, because I think maybe we're not
there at the confidence level yet. Do you have any reals?
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Okay, confidence? I love it?
Speaker 5 (41:07):
Okay, here, all right, here's my recommendation. Take her to
the range with you and she doesn't have to shoot,
but make what you're doing fun and not loud, which
means buying a suppressor if you don't already have one.
Shooting rim fires twenty two rim fires with suppressors, it
will take about thirty minutes or less for her to say,
(41:28):
I want to try that because it's fun.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Shoot some reactive targets, steal targets.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
If you have a place where you can do it,
Get you a bunch of ritz crackers and tape them
to a piece of poster board and shoot those. But
the suppressed twenty twos and a gun that is small
enough if it's a rifle to fit her or handguns,
and just make it fun and she'll.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Let you know when she's ready to do it.
Speaker 5 (41:56):
But I think the main thing is to not have
her at the range with you. You're shooting big loud boomers.
That could be a little intimidating, but it'll all come together.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
It's gonna be fine.
Speaker 8 (42:07):
Sounds like a date date afternoon on BLM Land here
in Nevada.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
And yeah, your recommendation, yeah, perfect, I suppressed twenty two,
making a picnic, outing and everything else. And then she'll
let you know when she's ready to try it. Okay,
But you know what, in the meantime, work on those
four rules of gun safety. Everybody in the family ought
to know those and be able to recite them any
given time. They're easy and you can find them. You know,
(42:33):
they're basically everywhere. But it's the rules that's set forth
by Jeff Cooper at gun Site four rules of gun safety,
and I would like for Raylan to be able to
know those and recite them as part of her training.
A great call, Hey, Raylan, thank you for being part
of the call. You guys be careful out there.
Speaker 8 (42:49):
Okay, we will thank you Tom for your time.
Speaker 5 (42:52):
You bet, you guys take care of a great call.
It's it's one thing for an adult to say, hey,
I think you're ready, and that's nothing wrong with that,
but you also have to measure that and put it
against the youngster saying I don't really want to do
that yet, or maybe I don't want to do that
at all, and he or she has a voting this thing.
(43:16):
He's not pushing somebody. You don't want to be doing that.
That's not gonna go. Well, make it fun, make it attractive,
take them to the range, let them have a good time.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I'm a huge believer in.
Speaker 5 (43:31):
Suppressors, and now that they are easy to get and
you don't have the two hundred dollars tax, it's just
not a big deal.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
You can pick them up anywhere.
Speaker 5 (43:39):
You should have suppressors, and a suppressor on a twenty
two rim fire is absolutely the way to get somebody started.
And once you get going on that, here's the deal.
You're not going to want to shoot them any other
way either. You're gonna say, why was I shoot without
a cad all these years? This just makes sense? That
makes so much fun. It's just great. It's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
You know.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
Now, we just got to get rid of the whole
registration thing on them, and I think that may be coming.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
But in the meantime, there's no tax.
Speaker 5 (44:11):
On suppressures and you can get all your paperwork back
in a week or so eight six' six Talk gun Or,
Tom Talk, gun be right.
Speaker 7 (44:18):
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Speaker 4 (00:48):
He was the first and he's still the best. For
thirty years, Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
all things mollistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection part
of it. Paul Tom Talk Gun. Now, here's Tom.
Speaker 5 (01:08):
It's that time again. It's time for gun Talk. I'm
Tom Gresham your host. We're gonna be talking about guns
and the Second Amendment and handguns, rifles, pistols.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I don't care what it is.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
If it's a gun or ammo, we will talk about
it here and you can be part of it. Give
me a call it, Tom talk Gun. That's the magic
number here. Now, there's stuff going on everywhere in the
gun rights world, but it seems like at the very moment,
Virginia is the hotbed of that. And a couple of
days ago I was able to grab Philip Vancleeve from
(01:39):
the Virginia Citizens Defense League to bring us up to
date on that. It's hot stuff. Listen to this all right,
A lot of us are watching what's going on in Virginia.
It's been a little bit crazy, the results of an
election gone bat and you've got a band coming forward
on semi automatics and magazine limits and everything else. In
the Virginia Citizens Devents League, it's on top of it,
(02:01):
and there's a lot of stuff going on. Joining me
right now is Philip van Cleeve, the head of the
vcd L. Philip, I caught you in the middle of this.
I think I broke in right between meetings you're having.
But like, as of this moment, you got all sorts
of stuff going on. You want to bring us up
to speed.
Speaker 6 (02:16):
Yeah, it's a real circus here. I think it's interesting
that I think they made a mistake in doing.
Speaker 7 (02:21):
This in Virginia.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Man.
Speaker 6 (02:22):
First of all, it's where vcdl's home is, It's where
the NRA's home is, it's where the goa's home is.
Speaker 7 (02:28):
We have all these states filing lawsuits.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
We and GOA are filing in the state, owners are
filling federally, and Hamid Dylan is going to step in
probably in early July, once it becomes enforceable law.
Speaker 7 (02:41):
Right, Yeah, different angle.
Speaker 6 (02:43):
She's gonna come in I think saying, hey, you're now
that you can enforce this, We're not going to let
you enforce it. So we'll see. It's gonna be it's
gonna be very interesting. But I don't know if you
probably have seen the breaking news. Yes, our state police
along with the Attorney General, just thumb their nose at
at a judge and said, well, we don't care about
your injunction on universal background checks. We're going to start
(03:04):
doing them anyhow. I've never seen that happen before, So
things are really going to get explosive here. We have
filed a suit basically going back to that judge saying,
you know, contemptive court on the State Police here.
Speaker 7 (03:17):
So we'll know about that pretty soon.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
So you and I are talking like on Thursday before
the show here, I just want people to understand because
things may have changed by the time this gets to air.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It's entirely likely that things worth changed.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
And I want everybody to follow what's going on at
VCDL and over on X where I'm posting things as well.
But the idea that the state and the State Police
would say, yeah, I'm sorry, judge, we don't really care
what you say. We're going to ignore your injunction. We're
going to continue to enforce the law that you said
we shouldn't enforce. That's just plumb crazy.
Speaker 7 (03:50):
That is absolutely crazy.
Speaker 6 (03:51):
And then again, these are the same Democrats that knew
that when they tried to redistrict Virginia from a six
to five Democrat republic and representation.
Speaker 7 (04:01):
In the House, that they wanted to make it ten
to one.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
They knew they.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
Didn't do it right, and our Supreme Court in Virginia
struck it down, you know, to the surprise of no one,
but I guess the Democrats.
Speaker 7 (04:14):
They thought they were gonna get away with it and now.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
And then then you had to take it to the
US Supreme Court. The supreme US Supreme Court says not no,
but hell no, because by the way, those are the
you who took civics know that the US Supreme Court
doesn't get involved in those state issues. So when the
state supreme court said it's unconstitutional, that's it.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
Yeah, it's over.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
It's got nothing to do with At that point, that
was just hell and Mary pass I guess by the Democrats.
And not only that, the other thing we've got working
for us now is now we've got seven, at least
seven and this may be going up. We have seven
commonwealth attorneys. Those are our you know, prosecutors in Virginia.
Seven of them are saying we are not going to
prosecute the assault weapon ban or the ban on carrying
(04:58):
assault weapons.
Speaker 7 (04:59):
We're not going to to do it.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
And the General Assembly like and our Attorney General is
a joke.
Speaker 7 (05:07):
He was all said.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
About that, but he didn't care that the common Wealth
attorney in Fairfax wasn't prosecuting illegal.
Speaker 7 (05:14):
Aliens when they were doing things wrong.
Speaker 6 (05:16):
That was okay, but heaven forbid that we protect the
Second Amendment.
Speaker 7 (05:21):
But that's I mean, this is a battle royale. What
really is something to be a part of this?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Just describe it.
Speaker 5 (05:27):
Because those of us on the outside, we're walking here
and thinking, well, wow, this is really interesting and there's
a liberal fight going on. I get the sense that
you are like running through an inferno all the time,
and there's just fires going on, and the people have
awakened and realized what's actually happening.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And the people in Virginia.
Speaker 6 (05:45):
Yes, oh absolutely, and even across the country, their eyes
are on Virginia. Part of it is because we're not
a deep blue state. We're actually mostly red if you
were to look at it from a satellite, but if
nothing else, you could say we're purple. But we're not
deep blue. So all this gun control coming in all
in one year, not spread out over a decade, coming
(06:06):
in all at once. That's went up circuits across the
country on this everybody's watching Virginia because they know if
it can happen.
Speaker 7 (06:13):
Here, it could happen anywhere.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Now, basically, the Democrats weeded out all the non far
left wing wing Democrats. They weeded them out, So now
we've got people our Senate vote had a zero percent
pro gun voting record this year zero not once did
and forty bills not once did any of them vote correctly.
And the Republicans had almost all have one hundred percent.
(06:37):
Some were in the mid nineties. But I mean, it's
like night and day. And keep in mind that back
in ninety five we had the Democrats controlled the House
and the Senate. We had a Republican governor back then,
and that's when we went from.
Speaker 7 (06:50):
Mayasure to shallashing.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
Nowadays, we can't get the mildest gun rights bill passed
any of the Democrats in the Senate and the majority
in the House.
Speaker 7 (07:01):
And he had one in the House that had.
Speaker 6 (07:02):
A forty one percent voting record. What he's all by himself,
floating in the middle.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
So where do you think the populace is now? After
ye had this election? Spenberger got elected by pretending she
was a moderate, which she was a crazy leftist radical
nut job. And now that is out, people are seeing
who she is. What's the mood now?
Speaker 6 (07:26):
Well, it's even her own site is mad at her
for other things she's done. Where she's they felt they've
been stabbed in the back with the other things. But
we call her grab agale Banburger.
Speaker 7 (07:39):
But yeah, no she's not.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
She is tremendously unpopular all the way around. Everybody's got
buyer's remorse. And I think again, I think this would
not have happened if the Red Areas had come out
and voted and we were warning gun owners.
Speaker 7 (07:56):
You know, we need to wake up hunters.
Speaker 6 (07:57):
They're part of the biggest problem here because they rarely
get involved.
Speaker 7 (08:01):
But man, there was no excuse for this.
Speaker 6 (08:03):
We could with all the gun owners in the Red Areas,
we could have stopped this from happening. So if they
sat back, I guess they thought Trump was elected so
they had nothing else to do anyhow, And now they're
learning civics. Oh well, like you said earlier, you know civics.
You got the federal government, but you got state governments,
and most gun control that we all live with are
actually at the state level. You know, I have the
(08:26):
same rights the youth in federally, but if I tried
to open carry in New York State, let's see what
happens to me there.
Speaker 7 (08:33):
It's not federal law.
Speaker 8 (08:34):
It's going to get me new.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
York state law. Right.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
I felt, if you've been at this a long time
and you really understand politics, and you're talking about the
election and the way that the red voters did not
turn out, and now we're looking at the midterms coming up,
and I'm wondering, could this be the warning that awakens
(08:57):
voters around the country to say, Wow, look what you
happened in Virginia, primarily because hunters and gun owners just
sat back and said, well, we're living in the age
of Trump.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Why worry?
Speaker 7 (09:08):
Yeah, I think it will.
Speaker 6 (09:09):
I think a lot of people again, they're looking at
Virginia and go, how did this happen in Virginia? And
here in Virginia, I think people are going, now, we've
had enough of all of this. So yeah, I think
it could could very well have that and the fact
that the Democrats didn't get their way with that ten
to one redistricting, the jerrymandering, they lost on that big time,
(09:30):
and that will also help.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
So all right, so you've got lawsuits against well, let's
back up, let's not assume that people know what just happened.
If you would just run through quickly the laws that
were just signed into effect by Spenberger.
Speaker 7 (09:49):
Okay, effect of July one, most of these if you
ar ars.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
I should say, you know, assault rifles and assault firearms
as we call them there Virginia law have been redefined
and it covers a rifle with one attribute, most of
the ones we're familiar with, you know, a pistol grip
or threaded barrel. For handguns, it's two attributes. And shotguns
have now come in. So this is again where we're
telling the hunters you don't think they're coming after you.
(10:17):
They just did with shotguns. A lot of shotguns are
going to be banned. So what will happen is you
can keep what you got it's been grandfathered, but no
new sault firearms will be available in Virginia. You can't
sell the ones you got except to an FFL, but
you can't sell it to anybody else. You can't buy
any new ones. Magazines are limited to fifteen rounds after
(10:38):
July one.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
If you have them before July.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
One, you can keep them, you can carry them, but
you can't buy new ones that are over fifteen rounds
after July one. You can't carry in a saft firearm
in public on any public road, any public alley, any
public place open to the public of whatever nature. Can't
do that, but you can transport meaning unloaded, locked up
in the trunk where it does the logo. You can transport,
(11:02):
but you can't carry. They just didn't like gunnars showing
up that lobby day and uh, you know, standing on
you you know, and carry goes, oh no, we can't.
There have been zero problems, right, well, you know that's
never been an issue with VCO, No problems all these years.
That doesn't matter, is you and I both know this
is about civilian disarmament. It's not about crime. It's not
(11:23):
about making things safer. We know that they're letting people
out of prison early. No, they don't care about public safety.
That's an excuse to disarm us. That's the end goal.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
And one of the lives they tell when they say, oh, yeah,
well we're gonna let you keep what you have, that's
on me, grandfather. That's until next year, where they say, well,
you know, clearly, if it's too dangerous for you to
be able to buy, it's too dangerous for you to
be able to own, so you're gonna have to turn
them all in.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That will come not only.
Speaker 6 (11:49):
That, not only that, Tom, but who are we to say, okay, good,
my gun's and grandfather.
Speaker 7 (11:53):
It's a lot of good. I'm I'm not gonna worry
about this. That is so an American.
Speaker 6 (11:57):
Who are we to tell the next generation you can't
have the same guns that I have because I'm not
going to stand up and fight for you because I
get to keep my guns.
Speaker 7 (12:05):
That's beloney.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
I'm glad you know they didn't dare come and do
a confestation this year, but you're right, that's where they
would head it. They're given the chance, and we cannot
let this stand. The next generation needs to buy the
same guns that we have, and maybe even better guns.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
You mentioned the lawsuits and you got NRAGA, Second Amendment, Foundation,
Fire's Policy Coalection VCDL. It's one of the reasons I
keep telling people you must belong to these groups because
it takes an enormous amount of money to challenge and
we're challenging it on the state level, challenging on the
federal level. And you got this Partment of Justice that
the moment that these laws become effective July one, then
(12:44):
Harmy Dillon walks in the door and.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Says, cease and desist that DOJ has arrived.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Yes, right, And it's like forty thousand dollars just to
walk in the door on a lossuit, just to walk
in the door. And these things can go on for years.
We have that universal back prod check that they're now defined. Well,
we're going after that. Just a contiguous battle. We had
another women in the city of Winchester. I don't say
we sue Winchester because people were going, why would you
(13:10):
see a gun manufacturer? No, this is the city of Winchester.
Speaker 7 (13:14):
We just fad a.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
But when there they were saying, no guns in our
parking garage is owned by the city.
Speaker 7 (13:21):
Well, that's not a sensitive area. And we won that.
They backed down and blinked and got rid of the band.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Oh before before I let you go here, I want
to remind people that you know, you do not have
to be a citizen of the Commonwealth of Virginia to
belong to and support a bcd L. You can live
anywhere in the country and you can be a member
and you can send money to help with a fight.
That way, you keep the fight of Virginia and keep
it from Uzziah into your state.
Speaker 7 (13:45):
That's fine, we'll do that, We'll fight for you.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
But yeah, we welcome members from out of state absolutely,
because what happens here, will spread it.
Speaker 7 (13:53):
We don't put the brakes on it.
Speaker 6 (13:54):
And those people from Virginia we're talking about leaving going
to another state.
Speaker 7 (13:57):
You don't ever win a war by retreating.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
And our founding fathers would stood on you for leaving
this state just because he didn't like the gun laws
that had changed.
Speaker 7 (14:05):
You should be here fighting with us to get these sticks.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
There you go, Philip Banklay, thank you so much for
doing what you're doing and keeping us posted on what's
going on. All right, don't go far, we'll be right
back with more gun talk.
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Speaker 5 (17:01):
Alrighty, let's do this thing. I'm Tom Gresha, I'm your host.
We're gonna be all over the place today, so just
dive into the middle of it. Didn't really matter because
I don't really have a theme or a plan. Well
I never have a plan. So if there's something you
want to talk about, give you a call. We'll talk
about it. Doesn't matter if it's a rifle of pistol,
a shotgun, a carrying technique, a holster, about sporting stuff,
(17:26):
sporting clay's clay, target shooting, long range rifles. O o
ooh there's something coming. Oh and give me a week,
give me a week. We've got some stuff to talk about.
It's gonna be really cool. Our number here, by the way,
is the eight sixty six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun,
and we're gonna be talking well in the next hour.
(17:49):
Cover the subject that I brought up on X that
start up a lot of people is a tax on
guns unconstitutional. You know, we already have one. We have
for a hundred years. It's an eleven percent excise tax
(18:10):
and long guns, ten percent on handguns, eleven percent on
AMMO that we pay. We'll talk about that a good
bit next hour. Over the last few weeks, we have
had several, I mean like maybe nine or ten instances
of good guys with a gun saving people and sometimes
(18:31):
by shooting them, sometimes by just getting a gun out
and pointed at somebody. We had one just a couple
days ago where good guys guy was shooting at people.
Good guys pointed the guns at the sky and he
just gave up. And not only did you give up,
he shot himself. Yep, that works, that'll work too. We
had an armed marine veteran in Cambridge, Massachusetts a couple
(18:56):
of three weeks ago stopped a guy. This guy with
in a middle traffic and he's shooting a rifle and
he's shooting fifty I think he ended up shooting fifty
to sixty rounds, hit a dozen vehicles, and he was
engaged by a Massachusetts State Police trooper. And then he
(19:17):
was joined by a former marine, just a good guy
with a gun who joins the fight, joins them with
the trooper joins by coming in at a different angle.
And he shooting at this guy. And let me just
tell you, two people shooting back is not twice as good.
(19:41):
It's like ten times as good. The multiplier effect is enormous,
especially if you can cut angles. You can get a
different angle. If you have a chance to work on this,
should you be with somebody you know, or even joining
up with an office or something. If you can get
(20:01):
a little separation and then you're working from different angles,
it makes a big difference.
Speaker 7 (20:07):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
The equation and I'm reading his story says well changed
the equation was a civilian, a marine veteran legally carrying
under a Massachusetts license to carry law, who moved toward
the shooter instead of moving away from him. The marine
engaged the gunman, and according to Middlesex County District Attorney
Mary and Ryan helped to get people out of the
(20:31):
area by drawing the shooter's attention. You know, having two
people shoot back at the bad guy does in fact.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Divert his attention. We see it over and over again.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Basically, when the good guy shows up, the bad guy says, oh,
that's not what I counted on. There's some takeaways from
this instance of the marine joining the officer. I'm reading
a story by Jay Paulson and he said, look, training
is the variable, not the gun.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Says.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
The DA didn't credit the Marines caliber holster or carry methods.
She credited his training. Spend money and time on instruction.
Just position an angle matter as much as marksmanship. I
don't know about that, but it matters. Marksmanship is important.
Movement beats freezing. Yeah, don't just stand there. Most people
don't train for that. Most people shoot on a square
(21:24):
range or an indoor range where they can't move around.
Try to find a place where you can go and train,
where you can shoot and move, or get some training
from a place where you can shoot and move, or
you can shoot and go down on her knee, or
shoot and go down on two knees. Or shoot and
go down prone and continue to shoot, or lay down
and shoot underneath a car. Ooh, never thought of that one,
(21:49):
did you? You lay down and the guys on the
other side of the car, you lay down, shoot underneath
the car and shoot him in the ankle. I think
you just got his attention. Yes, guaranteed. These are the
things you learn when you take these classes. We had
another thing out of a pleasant hill in Missouri just
a few days ago. A guy was starting to shoot
a place up and good guys show up, two of them,
(22:13):
and they approached him, and there are some shots fired,
and all of a sudden, this guy decides he's gonna
take himself out. The police chief credits the two good
guys who have guns. Good guys with guns firing back
are resisting stop mass murders. It's what stops mass murders
(22:34):
faster than anything we know about, and we know it
from the empirical data of this out there. So the
question is are you carrying? What are you carrying? And
how are you prepared mentally for a situation like that?
Give you a shout at Tom talk gun.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Ah, Yes, it's spring.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
One of young men's turn to well, no, all of
us actually turns to what's the next gun?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I'm going to buy it? Yeah? I know, And it's.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
An interesting question. There are so many out there and
so many new ones coming out all the time. So
the question is you're thinking about maybe something historical and
cool and old and neat, or looking at some of
the new things that are out double Stack nineteen eleven,
or new cartes or calibers, just wondering. Also, there are,
(23:29):
for lack of a better term, some weird calibers out there,
and I guess weird depends on your perspective, and you know,
it could be something old European, you know, nine three
by sixty two or whatever, or even some of the
US calibers. I mean some people think of two fifty
seven Robberts.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Its weird.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Or some of the new things, the new the Creed
Wars and the others. Would one of those be on
your shopping list? Or are even better? Do you own
something that people keep saying, what is that? Why do
you own that? What's that good for? So I'd love
to know about that, what caliber? What cartridge is your
wife with chamber for? That makes people scratch their heads
(24:08):
and go one world. Our number of course is Tom
Talk Gun Let's go grab Stu out of Georgia. Hey Stu,
your own gun talk. What's cooking?
Speaker 9 (24:17):
Well?
Speaker 12 (24:18):
Hi there, I wanted to give you a big thumbs
up on the Shooting Sport live streaming channel. I've had
a chance to enjoy it for the past week or so.
It captures all of the it captures all the best
of the Wednesday night at the Range outdoor channel programming,
as you might recall as you once had a show
on that evening. Yeah, and I like the way it
(24:41):
highlights the guns and the technologies and the modifications with
this billbox show for example. I'm hoping though that you
all might consider it getting into real world scenarios. A
lot of people are buying subcompact nine millimeters in three eighties.
You're not gun people necessarily, and you know, there's only
(25:04):
so many scenarios where a gun like that is appropriate
for me. It's not so much of fight but a
flight gun, whereas if I had a big, hulking handgun
but with lots of rounds, that would be I want
to see perspectives like that in real world scenarios for
programming on that channel. Other than that, it's all thumbs
(25:25):
up on it. Ryan's great, although that haircut of his
deserves a nice loud electric guitar. Anyway, Well, you know.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
And the funny part is, as you look at this,
you'll realize that some of these shows are from a
few years ago, and the hairstyle will change as you
see different programs. Let me ask you, where did you
Those who don't know, we're talking about Shooting Sports Life.
It's our new full streaming channel. In the old style
of streaming, it's just one show after another, the way
(25:56):
that networks used to be, rather than just clicking and
choosing and you just turn it on and see what's
going to be on. So there are a lot of
different platforms available.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
How did you add it to your TV? How do
you watch it?
Speaker 12 (26:08):
Well, there's something called FREEBTV that I caught it on.
There's some flaws with the Roku set up, but once
I get my smart TV program just right, I can
go straight to the channel. It would be nice to
see it as an independent channel away from the streaming services,
but I understand why it has to be dealt with
(26:30):
that way. Being a former broadcaster myself, I know things
like that have to be done a certain way, but
mostly it was freeb TV where I caught it. I
enjoyed the programming a lot.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
You know, I'm just thinking, if you like scenario based stuff,
are you familiar with our first Person Defender series?
Speaker 12 (26:50):
I will look for it right after I talk to you.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
Okay, we've been doing that for I don't know, probably
fifteen years now. We take regular people and drop them
into a force on force scenario and they get attacked,
something happens, and then we see how they do, and
then we coach them up a little bit and see
how they improve. It is available on our channels, YouTube
channels at all, and I'm sure we'll be included with
the Shooting Sports Life show as we go forward. But
(27:17):
you know, it's brand new, and you being out, you know,
experienced and broadcast, you understand it's like, Okay, we're.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Trying to make this work.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
We're going to put all these pieces in and then
we just keep being able to get a little bit
of a time. And I like where it is now,
but it just gets better month by month.
Speaker 12 (27:33):
Yeah, it reminds me all the fun stuff like with
the Michael Bains shows and of course shooting Usay, I'm
not so much into the sport of target shooting and
that sort of thing. But it's fun to watch that too,
But I really want to know about scenarios and defense
and things like that. And this looks like it's covering
pretty well.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
It is thanks to I appreciate it. I appreciate the
comments on that. And for those who don't know, you
can go to Shootings Shooting SportsLife dot com see what
we're talking about and they'll show you where to go
and how to get the show. Okay, let me find this.
Oh there it is. Okay, remember god, it's got to
(28:12):
be fifteen twenty years ago. Now the video of the
dea cop who's talking in front of a class and he says,
you know, I'm the only one in this room qualified
to have a glock forty that he promptly shoots himself
in the foot.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
We made a lot of fun of that.
Speaker 5 (28:26):
Well, now we had kind of a variation on that.
And where was this boardman? I don't know where board
and a fin further out it's a store in Boardman.
I don't have the state on this story. Oh well,
sorry about that. But this guy goes into the store.
(28:47):
He's got a burst of three eighty pistol loaded and
he's wanted to buy a holster and he goes in
and the clerk says, we need to check your gun,
you know, just to make sure it's unloaded. And the
customer says, I'm allowed to carry. So he's already he's
got offended, and Clark says, well, you know, we do
need to check your gun. If you've got to go
(29:08):
buy holster, fort we need to check. And then the
customer proclaims says I'm not stupid, says I know I'm
not going to bring a loaded gun into the store, says.
The story goes on and says the employee said he
took the customer's gun, And this is where it gets
really interesting. He says he charged the slide back twice,
(29:30):
pointing it down into the left, and then the writer
goes into passive voice. A round was discharged from the pistol,
shattering a nearby glass display case. Another employee, standing roughly
twenty feet away was grazed by the gunfire and was
taken to the hospital with a non life threatening injury
(29:51):
to his arm. Well, I would offer that a round
was not discharged. It's not a case passive. Somebody pulled
the trigger on the gun and made it go bang.
And the way they're writing it up, it almost sounds
like the employee had the gun and racked the slide
a couple of times and then pulled the trigger, which
(30:13):
makes it sound like there was a full magazine.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And I don't know what was going on.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
So you got the guy the customer who comes in
and proclaims that he's not stupid, he knows not to
bring a loaded gun in the store, and it's loaded,
of course. And then you got an employee who's racking
the slide, possibly without removing the magazine first. You know,
there's a certain order you have to do this. You
can't rack the slide and then take the magazine out
and pull the trigger and expect it not to go bang,
(30:40):
because that's just how things work. So there's a lot
of questions about this. I would offer that this is
yet another example of why we have the four rules
of gun safety. All guns are always loaded, Never point
a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy, keep
(31:01):
your finger off the trigger until your sites are on
the target. And number four, make sure of your target
and what's behind it. If you screw up on some
of them, but you still are obeying some of them.
You probably won't shoot anybody, especially if you do the whole.
(31:21):
Don't point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy.
What does that mean in real world terms? In real practice,
it means you become like some kind of weird religious
zealot about muscle discipline, even with an unloaded gun, even
(31:45):
when you're being cared, even if you got the slide
locked back. When you need to move a gun from
pointing over there to pointing over there, you don't swing
it past people. He goes down to the floor, points
to the floor, He moves around, so that at any
point along the way, if it goes bang, it's not
gonna hit somebody. At no point along its movement does
(32:07):
it ever point at you or anybody else. You just
become so adamant about it that you would never think
about casually moving the gun. You also, by the way,
no dangling, Okay, when you're out the range, you'll see people,
they'll shoot, and then the bank anyaby bank guns empty,
(32:28):
and then they drop the gun to their side and
it's just dangling down there at the end of their
arm where they're walking around. It's guns just dangling all
over the place. No, it's a firearm. It's always a gun.
Point it with purpose. Yes, I know you shot it.
It's unloaded, slides locked back. Point it somewhere. Don't just
(32:50):
dangle it. For heaven's sakes, be in control of your gun.
Where's the muscle pointed at any given time? Where where
is the muzzle pointed? Simple as that. Let's go talk
to John and Dallas online three. He's got a range
report for us. Hey, John, welcome the gun talk.
Speaker 13 (33:11):
Hey, thanks for having me back. Hey, So here's my
mini range report on that five hundred magnum performance center.
I told you about a couple of weeks. Yes, yeah,
I'll be honest, though I was. I was a little
disappointed in the AMMO. I feel like in the past,
I have a few different five hundred magnums, but my
eight and three eighth inch barrel, the first time I
(33:32):
shot it was with some Winchester silver tips, and man,
when you touched off that round, you can feel the
concussion and it is quite the ride. But that was,
you know, fifteen years ago. Now with this performance center,
with this particular AMMO, this HSM, you know it, it shoots,
(33:52):
But I feel like it was kind of weak sauce.
So I was shooting two rounds of three hundred grain
excuse me, three hundred and thirty grain hard cast lead,
and then a four hundred and forty grain barrel load,
also hard cast lad, and it just I don't know,
I've fired a lot of five hundred magnum. To me,
I didn'tchrono it, but it's all kind of like weak sauce.
(34:14):
So I was a bit disappointed.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
Did you check that What does HSM say on their
website about the velocity?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
They should have velocity published.
Speaker 13 (34:23):
The correct So the four hundred and forty grain, it's
supposed to be sixteen hundred feet per second, and they
say it's out of an eight and three eighth inch barrel.
My original smith will listened, but out of this ten
and a half inch barrel. I just felt like, you know,
I fired forty four magnum that had more recoil. Oh,
(34:44):
and secondly, I should mention it was funny. I was
shooting it with my friend yesterday and they kicked this
off the pistol range because people three lanes down had
complained there's too much quash too loud.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Oh, I got a question for you.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Now is the luck you got to Did you say
a ten inch barrel on this one?
Speaker 13 (35:04):
Yeah, it's ten and a half inch the Performance Center model.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
Okay, have you shot other AMMO in it? I'm wondering
if if there's some part of this equation that the
longer barrel is reducing the felt.
Speaker 13 (35:17):
Recoil, Yes, sir, and not only that when it comes
to feeling the recoil in the power, Yes, it's the grant,
the mass of the bullet, the type of powder they use,
the velocity, and also you're right, the length of the barrel,
the weight of the gun, plus the scope. So yeah,
it absorbed a bit of the recoil. But man, I'm
(35:38):
looking back to when I first shot my first five
hundred magneum like, wow, this is surely can take it.
Speaker 12 (35:45):
Out Grizzly Bear.
Speaker 13 (35:45):
But you know, if you want to get that that
jolt and ride that fun recoil that ammos hsm at
least in this platform, wasn't it well as interesting?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
They kicked you off the range because your gun's too loud.
Speaker 13 (36:00):
Yeah, well they moved me over to the rifle range.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Well that's okay. It is almost a rifle around. So
the question is Are you enjoying that revolver?
Speaker 13 (36:11):
I do? I do.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Now.
Speaker 13 (36:12):
We were just shooting an offhand, So I was shooting
at twenty yards and actually with that rifle scope. I
didn't tell you it's a rifle scope, not a pistol scope.
But I used it as a red dot, and just
with using it as a red dot, the illuminated radical,
I was hitting a center mask at twenty yards. So
if it was a charging bear, it'd be okay. But
this type of gun is meant to be shot off
(36:34):
of bipod or sticks, and we were just shooting it
off hands.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, that thing is set up for hunting.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
It wouldn't be your typical gun you would carry for
bear protection, not with a.
Speaker 13 (36:44):
Barrel that long, right right, Well, you couldn't technically carry it.
It's got a slip. You could technically carry it.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
But that's that.
Speaker 13 (36:54):
You know, it's a fun gun. And I would recommend
for those out there who are listening, if you ever
try a big magnum like that X frame, the four
sixty or five hundred, start with one round in the
cylinder first, because there's a phenomenon where a new shooter
if you're not gripping it right, you'll double tap it
and we put up two rounds at one time, and
(37:14):
you won't even know.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Oh you'll know.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
You are do it on purpose, but you'll know the
two went off because that is a lot of recoil.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
What a great writing report.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
I appreciate that, sir, and I would offer if anybody's
interested in that type revolver. The big X frame, the
five hundred is the biggest and it hits the hardest,
but the four sixty Smith and Wesson Magnum is a
heck of a round. It shoots flatter, I think it
has a little bit less recoil. And the other benefit
(37:48):
is it's actually forty five caliber, and in the four
sixty Smith and Wesson revolver, it's kind of like a
three fifty seven magnum where you can shoot thirty eight
specials in it. In the four sixty you can shoot
four to fifty four casoole and forty five Colt. So
if you don't want to shoot the real big heavy
(38:09):
recoiling rounds all the time, you can back all the
way off to like Cowboy Action forty five colt and
those will be pussy catloads in that big heavy revolver.
And now you're talking about a lot of fun to shoot,
because even a four to fifty four cassoole is a
pretty powerful round. But you shoot forty five's in there
(38:29):
and you go, yeah, this is nice. I'm liking that.
So I would just offer that any I know, I know,
I know, you get bragging rights by having the five hundred,
get it. I understand that, and I've shot them, I've
owned them and actually have one, but I don't shoot
it much because it's not a lot of fun to
(38:49):
just go out and shoot. Now, it's a great hunting
rig if you want to hunt with a revolver, that's
a great rig for that.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
But in terms of having a bit more versative.
Speaker 5 (39:00):
Tilloty, I would go with the four sixty and then
have the option of four fifty four cassoole in forty
five cold. You know what the other thing is, you're
liable to find some four or fifty four cassuole ammo
being offered at discount from people who bought one of
those revolvers, shot it for a while and said this
is too much recoil for me. They sold their gun.
(39:22):
Now they got this leftover cassoole AMMO and you might
be able to pick some of that up for a song.
It happens, and you can feed it into that big
revolver and shoot it with.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
No problem at all.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
All Right, the number here eight sixty six Talk gun
or Tom Talk Gun. I'm Tom Gresham. This is gun talk.
So how old or how young is too old or
too young to start? Somebody out? Ryan's got the question.
(39:54):
Hey Ryan in Carson State, Nevada. You're on the air.
Tell me about it.
Speaker 8 (40:00):
Ryan here with my nine year old daughter, Raylan, and
we were listening to your rules of gun safety. And
I think that, by the way, I really love that segment.
Thank you for that. Sitting here with my nine year
old daughter, Raylan though, and talking about when do we
start training her the gun safety laws and learning how
to shoot and going to the range.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
In your opinion, Well, Raylan, what does she want to do?
That's the real question.
Speaker 8 (40:29):
I want to say. Hi, go ahead, Tom.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
I just wonder now, okay, So Ryan, does she want
to does she want to start shooting? Now?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Do?
Speaker 7 (40:42):
I mean?
Speaker 5 (40:42):
Because you know, it's one thing for us to say yeah,
now's the time for you to start. It's another thing
for them to say yeah, I'm ready, or I don't
really want to do it yet.
Speaker 8 (40:52):
I would say. I just asked her after your segment
and she said twelve, because I think maybe we're not
there at the confidence level yet. Do you have any reals?
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Okay, confidence? I love it?
Speaker 5 (41:07):
Okay, here, all right, here's my recommendation. Take her to
the range with you and she doesn't have to shoot,
but make what you're doing fun and not loud, which
means buying a suppressor if you don't already have one.
Shooting rim fires twenty two rim fires with suppressors, it
will take about thirty minutes or less for her to say,
(41:28):
I want to try that because it's fun.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Shoot some reactive targets, steal targets.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
If you have a place where you can do it,
Get you a bunch of ritz crackers and tape them
to a piece of poster board and shoot those. But
the suppressed twenty twos and a gun that is small
enough if it's a rifle to fit her or handguns,
and just make it fun and she'll.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Let you know when she's ready to do it.
Speaker 5 (41:56):
But I think the main thing is to not have
her at the range with you. You're shooting big loud boomers.
That could be a little intimidating, but it'll all come together.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
It's gonna be fine.
Speaker 8 (42:07):
Sounds like a date date afternoon on BLM Land here
in Nevada.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
And yeah, your recommendation, yeah, perfect, I suppressed twenty two,
making a picnic, outing and everything else. And then she'll
let you know when she's ready to try it. Okay,
But you know what, in the meantime, work on those
four rules of gun safety. Everybody in the family ought
to know those and be able to recite them any
given time. They're easy and you can find them. You know,
(42:33):
they're basically everywhere. But it's the rules that's set forth
by Jeff Cooper at gun Site four rules of gun safety,
and I would like for Raylan to be able to
know those and recite them as part of her training.
A great call, Hey, Raylan, thank you for being part
of the call. You guys be careful out there.
Speaker 8 (42:49):
Okay, we will thank you Tom for your time.
Speaker 5 (42:52):
You bet, you guys take care of a great call.
It's it's one thing for an adult to say, hey,
I think you're ready, and that's nothing wrong with that,
but you also have to measure that and put it
against the youngster saying I don't really want to do
that yet, or maybe I don't want to do that
at all, and he or she has a voting this thing.
(43:16):
He's not pushing somebody. You don't want to be doing that.
That's not gonna go. Well, make it fun, make it attractive,
take them to the range, let them have a good time.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I'm a huge believer in.
Speaker 5 (43:31):
Suppressors, and now that they are easy to get and
you don't have the two hundred dollars tax, it's just
not a big deal.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
You can pick them up anywhere.
Speaker 5 (43:39):
You should have suppressors, and a suppressor on a twenty
two rim fire is absolutely the way to get somebody started.
And once you get going on that, here's the deal.
You're not going to want to shoot them any other
way either. You're gonna say, why was I shoot without
a cad all these years? This just makes sense? That
makes so much fun. It's just great. It's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
You know.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
Now, we just got to get rid of the whole
registration thing on them, and I think that may be coming.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
But in the meantime, there's no tax.
Speaker 5 (44:11):
On suppressures and you can get all your paperwork back
in a week or so eight six' six Talk gun Or,
Tom Talk, gun be right.
Speaker 7 (44:18):
Back
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