May 3, 2026 • 44 mins
-- Pete Brownells takes a team of former special forces warriors to the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro.
-- He went sleep walking with his pistol a year ago and thought he had thrown it away. He found it in the file cabinet drawer where he keeps his tax records!
-- Looking for trouble is a good idea, if you make it part of your "see and avoid" practice.
Gun Talk 05.03.26 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
-- He went sleep walking with his pistol a year ago and thought he had thrown it away. He found it in the file cabinet drawer where he keeps his tax records!
-- Looking for trouble is a good idea, if you make it part of your "see and avoid" practice.
Gun Talk 05.03.26 Hour 3
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gun-talk--6185159/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 3 (00:32):
All right, I'm back Palm Gresham here. Be sure to
follow me over on X. I am at gun Talk
there at the NRAA Annual meetings in Houston a couple
of weeks ago, I had a chance to talk with
about friend Pete brown Now, and one of the things
we talked about was his efforts where he took some
former Special Forces warriors whoden had a need and he
(00:55):
took them to the summit of Mount Kelimanjaro. I think
you're going to enjoy this interview. Always good to get
together with some of your old friends here and then
you get to meet people and see people who are
really the giants of industry. Pete brown Els, the CEO
of Brown Els. Of course, everybody knows brown owls. I
mean we used to get the big catalog. Now we
go to the online site.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, So if you need gunsmithing tools, which is where
it started, right, well, you are third generation. Yeah, third
gen of course, Ryan's third generation. All right, here's the
thought I was thinking about this this morning, thinking we're
going to talk about third generation. Why are all these
companies Nozzler, Hornity, why are we all third generation? It's
(01:35):
because our grandparents started right after World War Two.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
That's right, right, that's exactly right.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
I mean you mean the hodge of all of us,
whether everyone knows, is like we got back, They got
back from service. Most everybody got back and from the service.
And there was a big need for repairing, big need
for men frankly and yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Repairing guns, buying guns, relearning, getting into that. It was
all randwed and you had this mass of people coming
out of World War Two that they had time, right
and with the GiB all they had money. Yeah, and
we were the country was at a good place.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Well that was a time when innovation absolutely took off
as well. Because the United States was now adopted as
a world power of rebuilding. We could we were dependable
because we kind of saved saved the world on that front,
and then everybody came back with a lot more skills
and a lot more like I would say, resilience, and
(02:31):
that's when innovation really took off. And I think one
of the things deal right now we're seeing is good
innovation as well, coming back where.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I would agree. I mean, we had, you know, Fred
Huntington said we're going to do relearning products and bullets,
and yet your dad say, we know people are doing
home gunsmith and they need the tools, they need all
the stuff you had, you know, uh, Joyce Hornity, people
are gonna need bullets, and then you had you know,
Hodgsten say well they're gonna need powder, and it's like boom.
And now we have these big companies. But we are
(02:58):
to your point where third generation even for its generation
in some cases, and we are walking around Inerrat Show
and before we got on here, I'll say, look, it's
been eight years since we had the revolution of the
P three sixty five pistol, which kind of introduced a
new category, and I am feeling we're on the verge
of another thing happening.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Yep, we do see that being in the distribution world first,
and then we hear a lot of what's going on.
A lot of the people that are out there innovating.
This is where I think this pandemic post pandemic. A
lot of people were sitting around dreaming, and a lot
of that has turned itself into product.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Now.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
It's not just the big companies with their own engineering
departments saying this is our this is our one year
dev plan on product. It's a lot of these lot
of these entrepreneurs. This is a great, great industry to
be in if you have an idea.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Garage based is right for people who are just saying,
what if I did this thing? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Oh yeah, and then all of a sudden, bang you're
You're Fitzpatrick and all of a sudden you get MAGPULD.
What wasn't that quick? But you know it was.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
But speaking of Magpole, one of the things I think
we're seeing is different companies getting together and saying, Okay,
we got smart people. You got smart people. Yeah, what
can we do if we put all our smart people together? Right? Right?
Speaker 5 (04:14):
So yeah, that was a great one with with Ruger
and Magpole. This cooperative approach to providing kind of best
of product and best of companies right, And that's what
we're seeing a lot of it's it's and they're working together.
It's not just hey, it's not these silos anymore of
it's got to be me or nobody. It's we need
to be coming together. And they're bringing some young brands
(04:34):
up as well. And that's when you start to get
a good trigger company, you get a good magpool, you
get a major lead brand too, lead brands in that example.
And that's the innovation sparked that we're seeing right now.
And it's coming to market a little bit now, but
there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Say we're seeing some of it on the floor now. Yeah,
but you do the same thing. We all have NDAs
with all these companies. You know things we're hearing but
we can't talk about. But basically, what do you think
next show January of next year, we're going to say
some things blowing up?
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
And so there's two things I think the industry has
learned is work together, not against each other. And when
you get a product, don't start telling me about it
unless I can go buy it right now.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
So they're doing a lot better planning.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
We're a lot better that I mean they've really really
again it's working together with not just their company, but
the distribution, the retail and the more whole marketing and
create content creators. Now all are coming together. So when
we hear about something or it's ready to go, it's
in the shop, ready to be picked up and used
in the field.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Okay, a lot of fun stuff. Obviously, Brown Els is
not just a supplier of New Dads but also a distributor.
You now sell mo o, you sell guns, you sell
all of it at Brownhills dot com. But I want
to talk about Kilimanjarro, what you went to Killiman Jarrow
and climb that bad boy.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yeah, that was the last actually last time we were
on the air together. It was with a group of
nonprofits that focus on the special ops are military soldiers.
About five of us have got together and it was
a sponsor one of the foundations.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
It was Sole Special Operations.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
Wounded Warrior was the one I was representing, and we
brought somebody that's gone through programs. It was a special
operator wounded. A lot of I don't say PTSD, but
it's a lot of operators. Center which is head issues,
body issues, spiritual issues, alcoholism. I mean just to and
these are individuals that you get twenty two operators or
people in the military a day committing suicide, and that's
(06:31):
just a number that they contract. So it's more than that.
And our job as a group of people were to
inspire both the industry or America or we had someone
from Watchtower out in England. We've got a we've got
a job to do as well to make sure that
these soldiers come back. And it's yeah, that's a good point.
(06:52):
That's a good way to put it. And also to
inspire some of these guys that these are These are
rock hard men that are strong and and they go
from being top of their the pyramid to uh not
off the teams because of some damage. And and these
are examples of people who have been through.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
That journey their model.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
You took them all this, Yeah, how many did you
get up the mountain?
Speaker 4 (07:14):
All of them? And they hold our tales up there really?
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Oh yeah, yeah, these are strong guys and and this
is and they have gone through these journeys. One of
them was actually in jail for being a bad actor,
but he's got a path back to success and he
wants to be and all of them are inspirational to
say hey, this is this is how you can do it.
And these are well known guys inside their communities, and
to open up and say I've had problems and if
you do, you need to step into one of the trows.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
They can go out and carry that message because these
people are used to facing really hard challenges in their
professional lives. That's what they did. Yeah, and now you said, okay,
let's go climb a really freaking hard mountain.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
To gay that was That was it, and their way
of dealing with it is we're going to muscle through this.
This uh tough part. It's physically they can get through it.
They're mentally very tough on that side. But when you're
dealing with some of the stuff inside, you can't muscle
through it. You try to cover it up, and that's
when you start to have this this this circle of
(08:13):
depression that kind of hits us or grabs people. And
these are the guys that say that, yeah, I get it,
come with us, I understand what you're going through.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
I'll tell you what their story was. We had a
documentary about this.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Oh nice.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
Yeah, so it's out right now and it's it's being
used to make sure, we're bringing people to the to
the table and say yeah, I need help. They're not
going to tell their their wives or families or anybody else.
They can only tell the people who have been through it.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, because those people don't understand. We may think we do, yeah,
we hadn't been there. No, so they need to talk
to each other, all right.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
So so killnjar was I mean, it was awesome.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
You don't have to do this. Why do you do this?
Speaker 5 (08:51):
You know, you take a look at the gifts that
you're given or the opportunities that you have in front
of you. I'm an adventure at heart, and I want
to climber.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Let people know me. You climb like the tallest mountains ko.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
We get some good mountains behind this and then add
some might fee on some some pretty good peaks. As
you bring people on the journey, they discover a lot
about themselves. Uh, how to how to work together, especially
if you're doing mountaineering in a case like this, or
you're paddling the canyons. You have to work together as
a team. And that's the thing that I think fills
my bucket more than anything else. It's how do you
take somebody who has never had an experience. I grew
(09:26):
up in small town, Iowa, so you don't become a
mountaineer living in the flat plant of Iowa. As you
go on those adventures, you learn a lot about yourself.
You learn a lot about how where you're strong and
where you're not strong, and how to create a team
around you, which has helped me in the business world
more anything else. How do you create a team where
each person's strengths adds to a greater outcome? And and
(09:46):
and that philosophy that that's what fills my bucket.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
So helping people out that.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
You're not just building a team, you're building the team members. Yeah,
same time.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
Yeah, and they're building me. So I mean, it's these
are these these are things that I'm real. We got
some guys that used to work for us. I'm really
proud of where they've gone. We were part of their
life for a bit. A couple a lot of are magpull.
It's a great feeding ground for Magpul and I love
it because they're great people.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
We've got a lot of people around this industry.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
So talks about that for a second. I've said this before,
and I think if you're in another world, another industry.
You don't really understand. It's like the people here at
the various gun companies, they'll beat each other up all
day long for marketing. Yeah, and then go out to
dinner and drinks together. Because this is a different industry.
It's a community, it's a family. It's based on culture
(10:37):
and beliefs and a strong passion for the Second Amendment.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Yeah, so it's you never well, nobody ever wants to
burn a bridge, but here you want to continue to
build those bridges and build those relationships and welcome this
next generation. We're the old guys in the industry right now,
so bring this next generation in and make sure that
we have a perpetuation of this industry friendship because you're
helping each other out and we're seeing it right now
(11:03):
with the new products they're coming out. These these friends
are working together. They may have been a different company
or the same company. Now they're on their own product
or their own company. Now they're working together. It's great.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
It is setting over a drink over the cocktail on
laphan and say, well, what if we did this thing right? Yeah, okay,
so the last thing I would say would tag onto that.
And you are an industry leader here is if somebody's
out there thinking that sounds cool, there are companies everywhere
in this industry that are hiring right now.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Oh yeah, they're looking for your Absolutely, yeah we are.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
So this industry is coming out of right after Like
every peak, there's a trough and that's when you kind
of consolidate and make sure your systems are really lean
and a lot of good companies have leaned up and
gotten their stuff right. And just like the innovations coming
at Shoto next year, which is January, people need to
be ramping up right now and there's a lot of
(11:54):
tailwind that we're starting to feel behind it. So they're
gonna have to be how do you get in this industry?
I'll start looking at take a look at the air
fifteen dot com. There's some Reddit stuff that's out there
in our space. Call these companies up. See if there's
engineering operations, there's a lot communications. There's a lot of
good stuff coming to this industry and we're gonna see
I think a breakout coming.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And we are in a better place politically. I just
we're going to be in a better political landscape, which
is going to help everybody in this industry and everybody
who's a two a person and it's a great time
to get into this. So if you are interested in this,
find a company, start checking out because everybody's looking for everybody.
Talk to here sus. We're hiring. Yeah, we just need
people to come on in.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
Right, that's good, that's a good position to be in
his industry. Thank god, as was, we're coming out of this.
We've seen it over eating.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
We've seen the slumps and you know the trough say,
and now we're headed back up. Pete Brown outro Browneils
dot com. Happy to call your friend and then you
guys do good stuff. You personally do good Tom, Thank
you so much, Pete. All right, now it's a good
time for you to call in with your range reports
that Tom Talk.
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Speaker 3 (15:42):
Here. We're all over the place today. You can be
a part of that too. Used to give me a
called an eight to sixty six talk gun or tom
talk gun. Rifles, pistol shotguns, doesn't matter, different kinds of AMMO.
I was just figuring out there's loaded up the forty
five stuff going down to gunsight forty five ACP. You know,
I have had knowledgeable people tell me people I really
(16:04):
respect that with a forty five you might as well
just shoot FMJ for your defensive loads. I know that
goes against everything we're told about what's good AMMO for
defensive stuff. Expanding AMO or like the black Hell's mo
their honey badger stuff. I don't know starts off with
(16:24):
a great, big old bullet though, forty five caliber. What
do you think for forty five FMJ I'm and maybe
not for nine oh man, I don't know where I
follow on that one. I don't know enough about it.
I would have to do some shooting into gel and
see what it all looks like. There you go. Let's
go talk to Let's say John is in Dallas on four. John,
(16:46):
thank you for your Patience's glad we got you back
in here. How can we help?
Speaker 10 (16:50):
Hey, good afternoon, Tom, Hey, thanks for having Jack carhonally.
I really like that interview, so we appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Oh he's the heck of a author. If you haven't
read books, you really ought to.
Speaker 10 (17:02):
Oh, I will, I will, I will.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Hey.
Speaker 10 (17:04):
I was gonna say, if you're talking about forty five,
you like that big two hundred and thirty bullet forty five,
you should try a four hundred and forty grain bullet
out of a five hundred smith and wasn't magnum. That'll
that'll get your blood going.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yes, it will that they hold on and see what happens.
Kind of a rig, isn't.
Speaker 10 (17:24):
It, Yes, sir, yes, sir. So to the question, I
have a five hundred Smith and Wiston Magnum ten and
a half inch barrel the Performance Center, and I learned
a lesson, so when you mount the scope, you have
to have good I relief. So the four text I
put on there is a one to eight. It has
terrible IE relief. And there's no way you want to
put your face close to the end of that gun
(17:46):
if it doesn't have good I relief. So if anybody
listening out there, make sure you get good I relief.
You put a ship on that bone.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Well, let me jump in. Was this an extended I
relief handgun scope or was it a rifle scope?
Speaker 10 (18:01):
That's what I learned. I didn't know there's a difference.
I bought a Vortex rifle scope and I figured that yeah, no, no.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
No, no, no no no, because yeah, you're looking at
like a three inch I relief on that one three
to four inches, and what you really need is something like,
you know, twenty inch I relief, right.
Speaker 10 (18:20):
Right, And I learned that the hard way. But here's
here's the big question. Though, if you look at any
manufacturer's scope, whether schmidten Bender, Vortex or night Force. They
don't say that there's a limit to what type of
round you're shooting, whether it's you know, twenty two or
a five hundred magnum. So is there a particular scope
(18:42):
that you like to put on your big bore revolvers.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I don't. I'm trying to remember the only think what
I have a scope on. I don't have any scope
on any I don't have a scope on any of
my big boar revolvers now that to think about it. Uh,
there's ay for a magnum I got from Dad, and
I don't even remember. It's probably like a loophole two
x two and a half X. I don't think I've
ever shot it. I'm an iron sight guy, so it's
(19:10):
kind of where I am. But I would say go
with one of the major brands of Buris. I'm not
trying to remember who's making pistol long I relief pistol
scopes loophole. I don't think Vortex has any pistol scopes though,
does it? No?
Speaker 10 (19:27):
I don't think so, and I learned that the hard way.
But I do have a Borus on a BFR forty
five seventy that's been mounted. So yeah, that hard enough.
Oh it's pretty good. That's a handful too. But that
one actually has pretty good hand release. I'm sorry, iron lease,
So that one's pretty good, and I may going back
(19:47):
to them. It's just that this thing, it's such a
long barrel, and I do want to take it out
to one hundred and fifty two hundred yards, So I
do want a good quality scope. And I figured it
one day it would be great, and I had one
laying around.
Speaker 11 (19:59):
But you're right, and.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Scope, you definitely cannot use a rifle scope on your pistol.
The other thing is, you know, the question becomes how
much magnification do you need? And I would think something
along the top end of seven or eight is enough,
and honestly, probably would be just fine with five. Again,
depending on what you want to shoot. If you're shooting,
you know, groundhogs or something, you want a little bit
more magnification. But if you're talking about shooting a deer
(20:24):
or an elk, honestly, a six five or six powers plenty, Yes.
Speaker 10 (20:29):
Sir, that's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm thinking too,
because even when I look down at I'm like, wow,
I'm not shooting out to you know, five hundred yards
with a five hundred magnet, But no, no, you're not.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, and just remember a you know, say you're shooting
at one hundred yards and you're using a five power scope,
it's going to look like it's twenty yards away. So
it's just just not that big a deal. Look, gi
me a favor. When you figure it out and you
start shooting another scope on there after you've had a chance,
give me a call and let me know which one
you got and how it's holding up to that recoil.
Speaker 10 (20:58):
Okay, yes, sir, we'll do. Thank you, mister Gresham. Thanks
for having me on all.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Right, appreciate the calls there. I just grabbed Ray in
Denver on line three. Hey, Ray, you're on gun Talk.
What's going on? Hi?
Speaker 12 (21:12):
Tom, Thanks for taking the call. I purchased a Smith
and Wesson five to seven for my wife to use
as a defensive handgun, primarily because arthrits in her hands.
She was having trouble racking and slide back on some
of the nine milimeters, and we bought the guns. She
loved shooting it. We test fired several beforehand, and but
(21:36):
it kept jamming on her. So my jamming, I'm it
was a failure to go into battery and it was
pretty consistent, So sending in Smith and Wesson. They well
took it to a gun smith first and he said
he couldn't figure out that if there's any problem with it,
senating Smith and Wesson. Four weeks later they ship it
(21:57):
back saying they polished it and brain tests and everything
is good.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I'm thinking, I'm just gonna throw in a thought here.
It doesn't and I don't have very much time. Does
it do the same thing when you shoot it as
when she shoots it? Yes, Okay, then it's probably not her.
Tell you what, do me a favor? Shoot me an
email director Tom at gun talk dot com and let's
see if we can't figure out what's going on and
(22:23):
maybe get Smith and Wesson in the three way conversation
and we can help you out. Tom at gun talk
dot com and I'll go to that for you. Okay,
We're worked on that. We appreciate the call, sir, eight
six y six talk gun I'm Tom Gresher. I'll just
figure it out the upcoming class I'll be doing that
(22:44):
gun site and the classes I take it at Raine
ready in the other places and think of that. What
are the takeaways when people say, well, what do you
learn there? I've had actually people say, well you don't.
I shot with a guy went to gunsite and you know,
he didn't come out of there being a really great shot. Okay,
(23:04):
that's not really what it is. It's not about competition
shooting or target shooting. There are schools you can go
to for that. You can go train with top competitive
shooters now teacher to shoot a little bit groups or
to shoot really fast, you know, and there's are fun.
It's good, there's nothing wrong with that. You just got
(23:26):
to figure out what it is you're wanting out of
a class, and you've got to find the right place
to go. I mean, there are shotgun classes you can
take at gun site, but you're not gonna shoot in
clay targets. And then you can go take a shotgunning school,
wing shooting school with Brian Bolenski at Field Sport up A,
Traverse City, Michigan, and you'll learn all about swinging a shotgun,
(23:48):
hitting clay targets. Or you can go to the Orvis
wing shooting school. You got to figure out what you're
looking for. And Taylor that at Rain's ready, you will
ern to shoot. Chris is going to teach you how
to shoot well, and he's really good at that. There
may be a little bit of shooting faster, but mostly
(24:09):
it's going to be about let's put good shots on target.
And that's a wonderful thing. It's a good baseline thing
to know. At gun sight, you're going to learn how
to draw and shoot and move, and how to put
two shots in the torso and then one in the head,
and how to shoot a little bit more quickly with
(24:30):
turn targets. And they're going to do a building block
system and starts you from this is the gun and
this is the holster, and we're going to draw slowly
and smoothly, and how do we get the good grip
and how do we align sits? And how do we
press the trigger? Speak of trigger? Did you notice in
the interview with jay Lee's Williams we had I said,
what would be the one thing that you could just
(24:50):
teach people over the radio? She said, well, she had
an experienced two years ago that really changed her shooting
and proved it quite a bit. She real that she
had smaller hands and she needed a shorter trigger, so
you may have to hold your hand up if you
shoot right hand it, hold your right hand up, extend
(25:12):
your figure out like it's a gun. But now that's
your trigger finger. Now curl it back in like you're
gonna pull the trigger. If the trigger is too far
away from where your hand is, your finger contacts the
trigger before it has come to a ninety degree angle.
If you hit a ninety degree angle, you can press
the trigger straight back. But if the finger is contacting
(25:33):
the trigger and it's still swinging to the side, then
when you press the trigger, the gun is going to
move to the side. And then she said, also, if
my trigger finger is flat against the side of the gun,
when I pull the trigger, it's going to move the
gun to the left a little bit. With a nineteen eleven,
you can get different length triggers. It's very easy to
(25:56):
replace the trigger on a nineteen eleven, and you can
with other guns, and she's done it with her ars.
But it goes to show the level of detail that
competitive shooters do with this. I've heard other people talk
about that it's part of getting the fit right, and
a lot of our striker fired pistols we have now
(26:18):
come with different size palm swells or hand grips or
inserts in the back, and that, for lack of a
better term, gives you a different length of pull, the
distance between your hand and the trigger so that you
can get the trigger finger just right. Just things that
you haven't thought about that you learn from people like that.
(26:39):
You go, oh huh. My attitude on these classes is
pretty simple. And some might say, well, it's not a
cost effective attitude. I'll accept that, But my attitude is
simple as this. If I come away from a class
(26:59):
with one solid thing I've learned, then it was worthwhile
because I learned something and went, wow, Okay, that's the
thing I can take and work on. Or that's a
thought I could put in my head. And it may
be in the case of a self defense class, not
even a shooting thing. It's like a oh, that's a
(27:19):
different way of looking at that. That's the way I
could get out of a situation without having to go
to my gun, and that's a really valuable skill. It
may be more valuable than learning how to shoot. Frankly,
you're in traffic, you get blocked off, there's something going
on out there. What do you do now? I don't know. Well,
let's talk about it. Let's think about that. How about
(27:41):
number one, stay out of the center lane. When you're
in the center lane and you've got to land of
cars to your right and a land of cars to
your left, you have nowhere to go, do you. If
you're on either side, you might no guarantees here, but
you might have the opportunity to pull off the road
(28:02):
to go around somebody, to do whatever it takes to
get away. But if you're jammed up in the center
lane and there are cars stopped in front of you
and behind you and to either side of you, you
kind of got to take what comes your way and
then deal with it. And that may involve shooting. And
I'd rather drive away from it than get involved in
a shooting thing. So there you go. Oh, we had
(28:23):
a call from Jim in Redford. He didn't want to
be on, but he said on that issue with the
five seven that our caller had, he said he had
the same problem. I said if when he went to
Fiochi Ammo the problem went away. Interesting. I knew or
know how Finicky twenty two Rimfire Ammo is. For some reason,
(28:46):
it did not click into my head to think of
trying different Ammo in the five to seven. So that's
an awfully good idea. I mean, talk about your cheapest
fix ever if you can get it to run with
a different kind of AMMO, just switch Ammo and go
with that. Tell you what, David, don't go anywhere I'm
gonna uh oh no, no, we can do that. We'll
get you in. Let's go grab David right now in
(29:08):
line three out of Oklahoma City. Hey, David, what's up.
Speaker 11 (29:12):
I'm the guy that called in about this time last
year that I'll apparently I walked in my sleep and
throw my guns away.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Uh okay, I kind of remember that. That was weird.
Speaker 11 (29:24):
I found it, do tail. I have to We have
a farm and I have to do the farm taxes
for my mom and my brother. And I was going
through my file cabinet getting all their tax info and
I thought, man, something doesn't look right, and I'll look down.
(29:44):
Sure enough, there was that pistol.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Okay, I can tell the story again. Were you sleep
walking and you took your pistol and put it somewhere?
Speaker 13 (29:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (29:56):
Uh? I sleep occasionally do KSD and sometimes I'll try
to cook. But apparently this time I wanted to be
anti gun, and I thought I threw it in the
trash because I couldn't find it anywhere in the house.
I even had the bomb sniffing dog from the school
(30:17):
district that I worked for come over to my house,
ran it through the house, didn't hit on anything. The
room that I have my file cabinet in is also
the room that I store all my reloading powders, so
I got in or twelve pounds of reloading power, so the.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Dog can't smell the gun with all that going on another.
Speaker 11 (30:40):
Exactly, So, I was digging through the file cabinet and
something didn't look right, and sure enough I hid it
from myself.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Well, I want to know that. The important question is
was it filed under F for firearm or a P
for pistol?
Speaker 13 (30:59):
Neither?
Speaker 11 (30:59):
It was down in the very bottom.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
It was.
Speaker 11 (31:03):
Actually it was down there right next to my mortgage,
original mortgage statement. So it was just like, why did
I do that? I have no clue.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
There you go, Well, that's a great story. I'm glad
you found your pistol. Man. Thanks, I appreciate the call, sir.
That's good stuff. Let me do this. I want to
grab Tom in Flagstaff, Arizona. This sounds interesting. Hey Tom,
you're on gun tar. What's going on?
Speaker 13 (31:30):
Mister Gresham, Thank you for taking my call. It's a
privilege speaking to you. I was down at a ranger
ready and I got to train with the Cole team
and Julie and she's just an incredible individual. So this
day I hear her voice in my head telling me
to take up the trigger and you know, giving me advice.
They're just their astounding sisters. You know, you hear their
(31:52):
accomplishments and their championships. But to see those two shoot
head to head when they were shooting the lollipops, yeah,
it's like a sub machine gun going off. Those guys
are incredible.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Well, and the other part of it, don't you find
it's like this incongruous thing. It's like, Okay, I'm hearing
a really good firearms instructor and shooter talk, but I'm
seeing what I mean. Honestly, to older folks like us
were thinking, she's just a little girl. How does she
know this stuff? Right?
Speaker 13 (32:22):
It's like she has ten pinkies, her fingers are so small,
but she has a grip on a gun that if
the Lord reached down to pick that nineteen eleven out
of her hand. She's going up back to heaven with it.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
She is so strong.
Speaker 13 (32:35):
And powerful with that grip. The way she even loads
a magazine. She can load a magazine with those little
fingers faster than I can do it with a mag
rei loader. But exactly what you're saying them when we
started to clash. You hear about all their accomplishments and
the championships they won. But once you see those young
ladies pick up a firearm and they start shooting the
(32:59):
nineteen eleven and she had a broken she had broken
bones in her foot, and she's, you know, hopping around
with a boot on her foot. You know how range
reading is a gravel range, But she's tell them the
gravel for two full days, you know, not Grimace in
just just tough as nails taking the paint. And still
when they had to shoot off with the sisters, the
issue just started the class with that, because that that
(33:21):
blew my mind, how they just empty those rounds and
those lollipops exploded.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, all right, So I got a fish for the
compliment here, but I got to just ask you Raine, ready,
it's something else, isn't it.
Speaker 13 (33:38):
Yes, sir, you said, is it cost effective?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
It was.
Speaker 13 (33:42):
It's been a dream of mine to get out there,
and I'd really wanted to. Heck, I closed out a
savings account. I'm kind of a low budget kind of guy.
I closed out, you know, a savings account and took
my wife and I out there for the privilege to
train with Chris and his whole team. His whole team's
top notch and Dan and I just happened to be
on the side of the line, in the side of
(34:02):
the classroom that we spend more time with. Now Jalice
is opposed to me. And I got to, you know,
talk to the cult ferry and I knew she was
teaching classes, but and that was down in Phoenix, and
I am, I.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Sure today that's the day she wore the tutu out there.
Speaker 13 (34:22):
Yeah, the cult fairy, exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
The cult Fairy showed up. She's got a wand and
wearing a tutu and out shooting everybody. It was hilarious.
Speaker 13 (34:30):
Oh, it was awesome. It's totally worth it. It's it's
when you say, what do you come out of the class.
I've come out with so much that I'm one of
those kind of people you've been making fun of all
these years that has guns and goes out in the
woods and shoots, that doesn't know what the hell he's doing.
I wasn't even holding my nineteen eleven correctly because with
my fat hand and without the top of beaver tail,
(34:52):
I was ditting at my thumb in the right spot.
But with those new nineteen eleven Colt competitions, you know,
it's a big beaver tail. It plus like that's super
your GT. Twenty five, It's got that killer beavertail on
the ruder. It puts my hand in the right spot.
I learned so much. I been doing everything wrong for
thirty forty years.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, but Tom, how do you find out? How do
you know you're doing it wrong? If you'd never go
get instruction, You.
Speaker 13 (35:20):
Just don't, mister Gresham. You just don't know what you
don't know? Like you always say, it really is just
like you know, I've been doing it.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
I'm shooting, I'm enjoying it, but and you think I'm
doing fine. That's the problem is you think I'm doing fine.
I'm thinking how would you know? Now? If you ever
went to shot competition, you would know because you'd see
people who could outshoot you. But if you're not shooting competition,
and if you haven't had instruction, you just as you say,
you just don't know. Well, look, I appreciate the call.
(35:48):
I appreciate you. I mean, jay Lee's and Justine, these
Willim's sisters are amazing, and yeah, a chance to get
a little instruction from her on the YouTube channel and
you can go there and do that. It's a jay
Lee's Williams shooting over on YouTube and check that out.
Great great range report too. I appreciate that they are impressed.
I mean, well, like I said, we were, we're shooting
(36:10):
video of them. They had to be twelve, and I
mean there were little young girls and thinking, okay, how's
this going to work. We're told, yeah, these are professional shooters, okay,
and then they start shooting and you're just going, holy cow. Yeah,
I get it's kind of like watching Tiger Woods, I
(36:30):
guess when he was twelve and hitting long drives and
doing what I mean. There are people who are blessed.
You know, Jerry Mitchellick was blessed. You know, these people
are blessed, and it is not true what people will
occasionally say where they said, well, you know, if I
had a sponsor, but I had an AMMO sponsor, I
could shoot that much. I could be that good man.
(36:51):
Maybe probably not more than likely not, But there's a
way to find out. If you think that way, just
go sign up for a local competition, you know, just
do your best, see what you can do, and if
you do like I do, where I showed up and went, oh, okay,
there are twelve year olds who are out shooting me here,
(37:13):
and you know, I can do what I can do,
and I know where I am at least because I've
gotten some training and I did try my hand in
competition a little bit and went, well, there's people are good.
You know something else I've figured out and I don't
know what it is. I guess that's the way you're made. Originally,
I am not a competitive person. Don't care if somebody
(37:34):
beats me, don't care if I beat somebody else. There
are people I know who it would just kills them
if somebody beats them. So I never did well at
competitive sports because I just didn't care. I mean, apart
from the lack of you know, athletic ability, that's a
problem too. I mean, I did athletic things I just
(37:56):
didn't do competitive athletic things. I did every kind of
water skiing. You can do ski shows, and you know,
we would we would pull the lid off of a
Niggoo cooler seriously, and we would ski on the lid
of a nig cooler. Just anything we could get on
(38:16):
to the top of a tabletop. We would ski on
a boat, paddle, whatever it took, and obviously we'd barefoot
ski and do all of that. I guess that's athletic,
but it's not competitive. So when I am around people
like the Williams sisters and Jerry and all these competitive shooters,
they live and die for that. They just can't believe
that people don't have that competitive drive and for whatever reason,
(38:39):
never had it, never was able to develop it. And
I mean, I'm okay with that. I'm glad there are
people like that, because if they didn't have that kind
of drive, they wouldn't work hard to figure out what
works best and how they can make themselves better. And
by them working figure out what works best and how
they could shoot, they passed that along to us and said,
(39:02):
you know, we've learned that that way. We used to
hold a pistol. That's not so good anymore. We can
do better than that. Here. Let me show you a
different way to hold that pistol. Let me show you
a different way to massage that trigger. Let me show
you a way to acquire the sites or that red
dot that we've worked on developed and it works, and
because they are that competitive, we benefit from it. I
(39:31):
was looking at the new you probably have seen it,
the new enhanced video of the guy who was charging
through the security station at the White House correspondence dinner,
and gene Piro is now saying that it's definitive that
he did in fact shoot the Secret Service agent, that
the agent was not shot by friendly fire. He was
(39:53):
shot by this guy with his shotgun. Okay, fine, we
were wondering, I mean a lot of us wondered about that.
I didn't stake out a position on it because, oh gee,
I didn't know a lot of people had real strong opinions.
And this is how it is. Well, guess what you
don't know and staking out position like that can often
(40:14):
come back and bite you, make you look foolish, and
it has. But let's go back to what do we
get out of this. Think about the reaction time we
had one officer who reacted very quickly got his gun
out and started shooting at this guy, and everybody else
is like clueless, like in It's like they're running in mud.
(40:37):
And I realized that they had all gone into condition white.
Jeff Cooper, who we talk about a good bit next week,
created the color code. White is what you are in
when you're at home and the doors are locked and
you're safe and you're not worried about anything. The moment
you step out of your house, you got to be
in yellow, which is just being actively alert, paying attention
(40:59):
to what's going on. And then there are other color codes,
but they ramp up. But frankly, I took a piece
of yellow duct tape, but I put it on in
the middle of the steering wheel of my car, just
a little piece of yellow tape. It stays there all
the time. It's my reminder. When I get in the car,
(41:19):
I go into condition yellow and I don't come out
of yellow until i'n get back in my house. What
does that do for you? Really, what it does for
you is it reduces your reaction time because you're looking
for things, You're not scared, you're not worried, you're not apprehensive.
(41:40):
You're not frightened, you're just aware. You're just looking. You're
scanning your left, you're scanning your right, you're kind of
looking around. You're seeing people's hands. It's not a big
deal once you get used to it doesn't require any
extra effort. But what it also means is you are
less likely to be surprised. When you're surprised, you're way
(42:03):
way behind the power curve and you're moving slowly. When
you can see it coming sooner, you can react more quickly,
sooner into the event. Maybe get out of the way
in the case of an oncoming vehicle. Maybe get your
gun out if that's what's necessary. Maybe fire shot if
(42:27):
that's what's necessary. And remember getting your gun out doesn't
mean you're gonna have to shoot. Something can happen between
the time you draw and when you press the trigger
that says, oh okay, we're not shooting today. It's part
it's becoming a different person a bit, and honestly, it's
one of the things you get out of a class
(42:47):
at gun side. You come away a changed person. I've
told people that I've said, prove me wrong. If you're
a class there and you think it didn't change you
and who you are, and you change your life, call
me and let me know you never had anybody say that.
How does it change? It just makes you more aware,
(43:08):
and frankly, I think it allows you to enjoy life
more because you're seeing more things, You're paying attention, you're
going out and doing stuff. If you want to pick
this up and have this conversation, we can do that
during the after show, which is coming up in just
a few minutes. Give me a call right now at
Tom Talk Gun. We'll get you in this week. As
you go through your life, try to stay in condition yellow.
(43:28):
When you step out of your house. What's going on
in that car next to you? What's going on down
the road? Five cars in front of you, not just
the bumper of the car in front of you, Know
what's going on? Look far down the road, look left
and right. See what's happening. Is that a moose? Is
that to step out in front of you. The more
you look, the more you're aware. The more you're aware,
(43:50):
the safer you are. It's as simple as that, he's
safe out there. Oh yeah, and carry all the time.
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
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Speaker 3 (00:32):
All right, I'm back Palm Gresham here. Be sure to
follow me over on X. I am at gun Talk
there at the NRAA Annual meetings in Houston a couple
of weeks ago, I had a chance to talk with
about friend Pete brown Now, and one of the things
we talked about was his efforts where he took some
former Special Forces warriors whoden had a need and he
(00:55):
took them to the summit of Mount Kelimanjaro. I think
you're going to enjoy this interview. Always good to get
together with some of your old friends here and then
you get to meet people and see people who are
really the giants of industry. Pete brown Els, the CEO
of Brown Els. Of course, everybody knows brown owls. I
mean we used to get the big catalog. Now we
go to the online site.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, So if you need gunsmithing tools, which is where
it started, right, well, you are third generation. Yeah, third
gen of course, Ryan's third generation. All right, here's the
thought I was thinking about this this morning, thinking we're
going to talk about third generation. Why are all these
companies Nozzler, Hornity, why are we all third generation? It's
(01:35):
because our grandparents started right after World War Two.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
That's right, right, that's exactly right.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
I mean you mean the hodge of all of us,
whether everyone knows, is like we got back, They got
back from service. Most everybody got back and from the service.
And there was a big need for repairing, big need
for men frankly and yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Repairing guns, buying guns, relearning, getting into that. It was
all randwed and you had this mass of people coming
out of World War Two that they had time, right
and with the GiB all they had money. Yeah, and
we were the country was at a good place.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Well that was a time when innovation absolutely took off
as well. Because the United States was now adopted as
a world power of rebuilding. We could we were dependable
because we kind of saved saved the world on that front,
and then everybody came back with a lot more skills
and a lot more like I would say, resilience, and
(02:31):
that's when innovation really took off. And I think one
of the things deal right now we're seeing is good
innovation as well, coming back where.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I would agree. I mean, we had, you know, Fred
Huntington said we're going to do relearning products and bullets,
and yet your dad say, we know people are doing
home gunsmith and they need the tools, they need all
the stuff you had, you know, uh, Joyce Hornity, people
are gonna need bullets, and then you had you know,
Hodgsten say well they're gonna need powder, and it's like boom.
And now we have these big companies. But we are
(02:58):
to your point where third generation even for its generation
in some cases, and we are walking around Inerrat Show
and before we got on here, I'll say, look, it's
been eight years since we had the revolution of the
P three sixty five pistol, which kind of introduced a
new category, and I am feeling we're on the verge
of another thing happening.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Yep, we do see that being in the distribution world first,
and then we hear a lot of what's going on.
A lot of the people that are out there innovating.
This is where I think this pandemic post pandemic. A
lot of people were sitting around dreaming, and a lot
of that has turned itself into product.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Now.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
It's not just the big companies with their own engineering
departments saying this is our this is our one year
dev plan on product. It's a lot of these lot
of these entrepreneurs. This is a great, great industry to
be in if you have an idea.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Garage based is right for people who are just saying,
what if I did this thing? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Oh yeah, and then all of a sudden, bang you're
You're Fitzpatrick and all of a sudden you get MAGPULD.
What wasn't that quick? But you know it was.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
But speaking of Magpole, one of the things I think
we're seeing is different companies getting together and saying, Okay,
we got smart people. You got smart people. Yeah, what
can we do if we put all our smart people together? Right? Right?
Speaker 5 (04:14):
So yeah, that was a great one with with Ruger
and Magpole. This cooperative approach to providing kind of best
of product and best of companies right, And that's what
we're seeing a lot of it's it's and they're working together.
It's not just hey, it's not these silos anymore of
it's got to be me or nobody. It's we need
to be coming together. And they're bringing some young brands
(04:34):
up as well. And that's when you start to get
a good trigger company, you get a good magpool, you
get a major lead brand too, lead brands in that example.
And that's the innovation sparked that we're seeing right now.
And it's coming to market a little bit now, but
there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Say we're seeing some of it on the floor now. Yeah,
but you do the same thing. We all have NDAs
with all these companies. You know things we're hearing but
we can't talk about. But basically, what do you think
next show January of next year, we're going to say
some things blowing up?
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
And so there's two things I think the industry has
learned is work together, not against each other. And when
you get a product, don't start telling me about it
unless I can go buy it right now.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
So they're doing a lot better planning.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
We're a lot better that I mean they've really really
again it's working together with not just their company, but
the distribution, the retail and the more whole marketing and
create content creators. Now all are coming together. So when
we hear about something or it's ready to go, it's
in the shop, ready to be picked up and used
in the field.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Okay, a lot of fun stuff. Obviously, Brown Els is
not just a supplier of New Dads but also a distributor.
You now sell mo o, you sell guns, you sell
all of it at Brownhills dot com. But I want
to talk about Kilimanjarro, what you went to Killiman Jarrow
and climb that bad boy.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yeah, that was the last actually last time we were
on the air together. It was with a group of
nonprofits that focus on the special ops are military soldiers.
About five of us have got together and it was
a sponsor one of the foundations.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
It was Sole Special Operations.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
Wounded Warrior was the one I was representing, and we
brought somebody that's gone through programs. It was a special
operator wounded. A lot of I don't say PTSD, but
it's a lot of operators. Center which is head issues,
body issues, spiritual issues, alcoholism. I mean just to and
these are individuals that you get twenty two operators or
people in the military a day committing suicide, and that's
(06:31):
just a number that they contract. So it's more than that.
And our job as a group of people were to
inspire both the industry or America or we had someone
from Watchtower out in England. We've got a we've got
a job to do as well to make sure that
these soldiers come back. And it's yeah, that's a good point.
(06:52):
That's a good way to put it. And also to
inspire some of these guys that these are These are
rock hard men that are strong and and they go
from being top of their the pyramid to uh not
off the teams because of some damage. And and these
are examples of people who have been through.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
That journey their model.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
You took them all this, Yeah, how many did you
get up the mountain?
Speaker 4 (07:14):
All of them? And they hold our tales up there really?
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Oh yeah, yeah, these are strong guys and and this
is and they have gone through these journeys. One of
them was actually in jail for being a bad actor,
but he's got a path back to success and he
wants to be and all of them are inspirational to
say hey, this is this is how you can do it.
And these are well known guys inside their communities, and
to open up and say I've had problems and if
you do, you need to step into one of the trows.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
They can go out and carry that message because these
people are used to facing really hard challenges in their
professional lives. That's what they did. Yeah, and now you said, okay,
let's go climb a really freaking hard mountain.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
To gay that was That was it, and their way
of dealing with it is we're going to muscle through this.
This uh tough part. It's physically they can get through it.
They're mentally very tough on that side. But when you're
dealing with some of the stuff inside, you can't muscle
through it. You try to cover it up, and that's
when you start to have this this this circle of
(08:13):
depression that kind of hits us or grabs people. And
these are the guys that say that, yeah, I get it,
come with us, I understand what you're going through.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
I'll tell you what their story was. We had a
documentary about this.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Oh nice.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
Yeah, so it's out right now and it's it's being
used to make sure, we're bringing people to the to
the table and say yeah, I need help. They're not
going to tell their their wives or families or anybody else.
They can only tell the people who have been through it.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, because those people don't understand. We may think we do, yeah,
we hadn't been there. No, so they need to talk
to each other, all right.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
So so killnjar was I mean, it was awesome.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
You don't have to do this. Why do you do this?
Speaker 5 (08:51):
You know, you take a look at the gifts that
you're given or the opportunities that you have in front
of you. I'm an adventure at heart, and I want
to climber.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Let people know me. You climb like the tallest mountains ko.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
We get some good mountains behind this and then add
some might fee on some some pretty good peaks. As
you bring people on the journey, they discover a lot
about themselves. Uh, how to how to work together, especially
if you're doing mountaineering in a case like this, or
you're paddling the canyons. You have to work together as
a team. And that's the thing that I think fills
my bucket more than anything else. It's how do you
take somebody who has never had an experience. I grew
(09:26):
up in small town, Iowa, so you don't become a
mountaineer living in the flat plant of Iowa. As you
go on those adventures, you learn a lot about yourself.
You learn a lot about how where you're strong and
where you're not strong, and how to create a team
around you, which has helped me in the business world
more anything else. How do you create a team where
each person's strengths adds to a greater outcome? And and
(09:46):
and that philosophy that that's what fills my bucket.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
So helping people out that.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
You're not just building a team, you're building the team members. Yeah,
same time.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
Yeah, and they're building me. So I mean, it's these
are these these are things that I'm real. We got
some guys that used to work for us. I'm really
proud of where they've gone. We were part of their
life for a bit. A couple a lot of are magpull.
It's a great feeding ground for Magpul and I love
it because they're great people.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
We've got a lot of people around this industry.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
So talks about that for a second. I've said this before,
and I think if you're in another world, another industry.
You don't really understand. It's like the people here at
the various gun companies, they'll beat each other up all
day long for marketing. Yeah, and then go out to
dinner and drinks together. Because this is a different industry.
It's a community, it's a family. It's based on culture
(10:37):
and beliefs and a strong passion for the Second Amendment.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Yeah, so it's you never well, nobody ever wants to
burn a bridge, but here you want to continue to
build those bridges and build those relationships and welcome this
next generation. We're the old guys in the industry right now,
so bring this next generation in and make sure that
we have a perpetuation of this industry friendship because you're
helping each other out and we're seeing it right now
(11:03):
with the new products they're coming out. These these friends
are working together. They may have been a different company
or the same company. Now they're on their own product
or their own company. Now they're working together. It's great.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
It is setting over a drink over the cocktail on
laphan and say, well, what if we did this thing right? Yeah, okay,
so the last thing I would say would tag onto that.
And you are an industry leader here is if somebody's
out there thinking that sounds cool, there are companies everywhere
in this industry that are hiring right now.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Oh yeah, they're looking for your Absolutely, yeah we are.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
So this industry is coming out of right after Like
every peak, there's a trough and that's when you kind
of consolidate and make sure your systems are really lean
and a lot of good companies have leaned up and
gotten their stuff right. And just like the innovations coming
at Shoto next year, which is January, people need to
be ramping up right now and there's a lot of
(11:54):
tailwind that we're starting to feel behind it. So they're
gonna have to be how do you get in this industry?
I'll start looking at take a look at the air
fifteen dot com. There's some Reddit stuff that's out there
in our space. Call these companies up. See if there's
engineering operations, there's a lot communications. There's a lot of
good stuff coming to this industry and we're gonna see
I think a breakout coming.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And we are in a better place politically. I just
we're going to be in a better political landscape, which
is going to help everybody in this industry and everybody
who's a two a person and it's a great time
to get into this. So if you are interested in this,
find a company, start checking out because everybody's looking for everybody.
Talk to here sus. We're hiring. Yeah, we just need
people to come on in.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
Right, that's good, that's a good position to be in
his industry. Thank god, as was, we're coming out of this.
We've seen it over eating.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
We've seen the slumps and you know the trough say,
and now we're headed back up. Pete Brown outro Browneils
dot com. Happy to call your friend and then you
guys do good stuff. You personally do good Tom, Thank
you so much, Pete. All right, now it's a good
time for you to call in with your range reports
that Tom Talk.
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Speaker 3 (15:42):
Here. We're all over the place today. You can be
a part of that too. Used to give me a
called an eight to sixty six talk gun or tom
talk gun. Rifles, pistol shotguns, doesn't matter, different kinds of AMMO.
I was just figuring out there's loaded up the forty
five stuff going down to gunsight forty five ACP. You know,
I have had knowledgeable people tell me people I really
(16:04):
respect that with a forty five you might as well
just shoot FMJ for your defensive loads. I know that
goes against everything we're told about what's good AMMO for
defensive stuff. Expanding AMO or like the black Hell's mo
their honey badger stuff. I don't know starts off with
(16:24):
a great, big old bullet though, forty five caliber. What
do you think for forty five FMJ I'm and maybe
not for nine oh man, I don't know where I
follow on that one. I don't know enough about it.
I would have to do some shooting into gel and
see what it all looks like. There you go. Let's
go talk to Let's say John is in Dallas on four. John,
(16:46):
thank you for your Patience's glad we got you back
in here. How can we help?
Speaker 10 (16:50):
Hey, good afternoon, Tom, Hey, thanks for having Jack carhonally.
I really like that interview, so we appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Oh he's the heck of a author. If you haven't
read books, you really ought to.
Speaker 10 (17:02):
Oh, I will, I will, I will.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Hey.
Speaker 10 (17:04):
I was gonna say, if you're talking about forty five,
you like that big two hundred and thirty bullet forty five,
you should try a four hundred and forty grain bullet
out of a five hundred smith and wasn't magnum. That'll
that'll get your blood going.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yes, it will that they hold on and see what happens.
Kind of a rig, isn't.
Speaker 10 (17:24):
It, Yes, sir, yes, sir. So to the question, I
have a five hundred Smith and Wiston Magnum ten and
a half inch barrel the Performance Center, and I learned
a lesson, so when you mount the scope, you have
to have good I relief. So the four text I
put on there is a one to eight. It has
terrible IE relief. And there's no way you want to
put your face close to the end of that gun
(17:46):
if it doesn't have good I relief. So if anybody
listening out there, make sure you get good I relief.
You put a ship on that bone.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Well, let me jump in. Was this an extended I
relief handgun scope or was it a rifle scope?
Speaker 10 (18:01):
That's what I learned. I didn't know there's a difference.
I bought a Vortex rifle scope and I figured that yeah, no, no.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
No, no, no no no, because yeah, you're looking at
like a three inch I relief on that one three
to four inches, and what you really need is something like,
you know, twenty inch I relief, right.
Speaker 10 (18:20):
Right, And I learned that the hard way. But here's
here's the big question. Though, if you look at any
manufacturer's scope, whether schmidten Bender, Vortex or night Force. They
don't say that there's a limit to what type of
round you're shooting, whether it's you know, twenty two or
a five hundred magnum. So is there a particular scope
(18:42):
that you like to put on your big bore revolvers.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I don't. I'm trying to remember the only think what
I have a scope on. I don't have any scope
on any I don't have a scope on any of
my big boar revolvers now that to think about it. Uh,
there's ay for a magnum I got from Dad, and
I don't even remember. It's probably like a loophole two
x two and a half X. I don't think I've
ever shot it. I'm an iron sight guy, so it's
(19:10):
kind of where I am. But I would say go
with one of the major brands of Buris. I'm not
trying to remember who's making pistol long I relief pistol
scopes loophole. I don't think Vortex has any pistol scopes though,
does it? No?
Speaker 10 (19:27):
I don't think so, and I learned that the hard way.
But I do have a Borus on a BFR forty
five seventy that's been mounted. So yeah, that hard enough.
Oh it's pretty good. That's a handful too. But that
one actually has pretty good hand release. I'm sorry, iron lease,
So that one's pretty good, and I may going back
(19:47):
to them. It's just that this thing, it's such a
long barrel, and I do want to take it out
to one hundred and fifty two hundred yards, So I
do want a good quality scope. And I figured it
one day it would be great, and I had one
laying around.
Speaker 11 (19:59):
But you're right, and.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Scope, you definitely cannot use a rifle scope on your pistol.
The other thing is, you know, the question becomes how
much magnification do you need? And I would think something
along the top end of seven or eight is enough,
and honestly, probably would be just fine with five. Again,
depending on what you want to shoot. If you're shooting,
you know, groundhogs or something, you want a little bit
more magnification. But if you're talking about shooting a deer
(20:24):
or an elk, honestly, a six five or six powers plenty, Yes.
Speaker 10 (20:29):
Sir, that's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm thinking too,
because even when I look down at I'm like, wow,
I'm not shooting out to you know, five hundred yards
with a five hundred magnet, But no, no, you're not.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, and just remember a you know, say you're shooting
at one hundred yards and you're using a five power scope,
it's going to look like it's twenty yards away. So
it's just just not that big a deal. Look, gi
me a favor. When you figure it out and you
start shooting another scope on there after you've had a chance,
give me a call and let me know which one
you got and how it's holding up to that recoil.
Speaker 10 (20:58):
Okay, yes, sir, we'll do. Thank you, mister Gresham. Thanks
for having me on all.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Right, appreciate the calls there. I just grabbed Ray in
Denver on line three. Hey, Ray, you're on gun Talk.
What's going on? Hi?
Speaker 12 (21:12):
Tom, Thanks for taking the call. I purchased a Smith
and Wesson five to seven for my wife to use
as a defensive handgun, primarily because arthrits in her hands.
She was having trouble racking and slide back on some
of the nine milimeters, and we bought the guns. She
loved shooting it. We test fired several beforehand, and but
(21:36):
it kept jamming on her. So my jamming, I'm it
was a failure to go into battery and it was
pretty consistent, So sending in Smith and Wesson. They well
took it to a gun smith first and he said
he couldn't figure out that if there's any problem with it,
senating Smith and Wesson. Four weeks later they ship it
(21:57):
back saying they polished it and brain tests and everything
is good.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I'm thinking, I'm just gonna throw in a thought here.
It doesn't and I don't have very much time. Does
it do the same thing when you shoot it as
when she shoots it? Yes, Okay, then it's probably not her.
Tell you what, do me a favor? Shoot me an
email director Tom at gun talk dot com and let's
see if we can't figure out what's going on and
(22:23):
maybe get Smith and Wesson in the three way conversation
and we can help you out. Tom at gun talk
dot com and I'll go to that for you. Okay,
We're worked on that. We appreciate the call, sir, eight
six y six talk gun I'm Tom Gresher. I'll just
figure it out the upcoming class I'll be doing that
(22:44):
gun site and the classes I take it at Raine
ready in the other places and think of that. What
are the takeaways when people say, well, what do you
learn there? I've had actually people say, well you don't.
I shot with a guy went to gunsite and you know,
he didn't come out of there being a really great shot. Okay,
(23:04):
that's not really what it is. It's not about competition
shooting or target shooting. There are schools you can go
to for that. You can go train with top competitive
shooters now teacher to shoot a little bit groups or
to shoot really fast, you know, and there's are fun.
It's good, there's nothing wrong with that. You just got
(23:26):
to figure out what it is you're wanting out of
a class, and you've got to find the right place
to go. I mean, there are shotgun classes you can
take at gun site, but you're not gonna shoot in
clay targets. And then you can go take a shotgunning school,
wing shooting school with Brian Bolenski at Field Sport up A,
Traverse City, Michigan, and you'll learn all about swinging a shotgun,
(23:48):
hitting clay targets. Or you can go to the Orvis
wing shooting school. You got to figure out what you're
looking for. And Taylor that at Rain's ready, you will
ern to shoot. Chris is going to teach you how
to shoot well, and he's really good at that. There
may be a little bit of shooting faster, but mostly
(24:09):
it's going to be about let's put good shots on target.
And that's a wonderful thing. It's a good baseline thing
to know. At gun sight, you're going to learn how
to draw and shoot and move, and how to put
two shots in the torso and then one in the head,
and how to shoot a little bit more quickly with
(24:30):
turn targets. And they're going to do a building block
system and starts you from this is the gun and
this is the holster, and we're going to draw slowly
and smoothly, and how do we get the good grip
and how do we align sits? And how do we
press the trigger? Speak of trigger? Did you notice in
the interview with jay Lee's Williams we had I said,
what would be the one thing that you could just
(24:50):
teach people over the radio? She said, well, she had
an experienced two years ago that really changed her shooting
and proved it quite a bit. She real that she
had smaller hands and she needed a shorter trigger, so
you may have to hold your hand up if you
shoot right hand it, hold your right hand up, extend
(25:12):
your figure out like it's a gun. But now that's
your trigger finger. Now curl it back in like you're
gonna pull the trigger. If the trigger is too far
away from where your hand is, your finger contacts the
trigger before it has come to a ninety degree angle.
If you hit a ninety degree angle, you can press
the trigger straight back. But if the finger is contacting
(25:33):
the trigger and it's still swinging to the side, then
when you press the trigger, the gun is going to
move to the side. And then she said, also, if
my trigger finger is flat against the side of the gun,
when I pull the trigger, it's going to move the
gun to the left a little bit. With a nineteen eleven,
you can get different length triggers. It's very easy to
(25:56):
replace the trigger on a nineteen eleven, and you can
with other guns, and she's done it with her ars.
But it goes to show the level of detail that
competitive shooters do with this. I've heard other people talk
about that it's part of getting the fit right, and
a lot of our striker fired pistols we have now
(26:18):
come with different size palm swells or hand grips or
inserts in the back, and that, for lack of a
better term, gives you a different length of pull, the
distance between your hand and the trigger so that you
can get the trigger finger just right. Just things that
you haven't thought about that you learn from people like that.
(26:39):
You go, oh huh. My attitude on these classes is
pretty simple. And some might say, well, it's not a
cost effective attitude. I'll accept that, But my attitude is
simple as this. If I come away from a class
(26:59):
with one solid thing I've learned, then it was worthwhile
because I learned something and went, wow, Okay, that's the
thing I can take and work on. Or that's a
thought I could put in my head. And it may
be in the case of a self defense class, not
even a shooting thing. It's like a oh, that's a
(27:19):
different way of looking at that. That's the way I
could get out of a situation without having to go
to my gun, and that's a really valuable skill. It
may be more valuable than learning how to shoot. Frankly,
you're in traffic, you get blocked off, there's something going
on out there. What do you do now? I don't know. Well,
let's talk about it. Let's think about that. How about
(27:41):
number one, stay out of the center lane. When you're
in the center lane and you've got to land of
cars to your right and a land of cars to
your left, you have nowhere to go, do you. If
you're on either side, you might no guarantees here, but
you might have the opportunity to pull off the road
(28:02):
to go around somebody, to do whatever it takes to
get away. But if you're jammed up in the center
lane and there are cars stopped in front of you
and behind you and to either side of you, you
kind of got to take what comes your way and
then deal with it. And that may involve shooting. And
I'd rather drive away from it than get involved in
a shooting thing. So there you go. Oh, we had
(28:23):
a call from Jim in Redford. He didn't want to
be on, but he said on that issue with the
five seven that our caller had, he said he had
the same problem. I said if when he went to
Fiochi Ammo the problem went away. Interesting. I knew or
know how Finicky twenty two Rimfire Ammo is. For some reason,
(28:46):
it did not click into my head to think of
trying different Ammo in the five to seven. So that's
an awfully good idea. I mean, talk about your cheapest
fix ever if you can get it to run with
a different kind of AMMO, just switch Ammo and go
with that. Tell you what, David, don't go anywhere I'm
gonna uh oh no, no, we can do that. We'll
get you in. Let's go grab David right now in
(29:08):
line three out of Oklahoma City. Hey, David, what's up.
Speaker 11 (29:12):
I'm the guy that called in about this time last
year that I'll apparently I walked in my sleep and
throw my guns away.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Uh okay, I kind of remember that. That was weird.
Speaker 11 (29:24):
I found it, do tail. I have to We have
a farm and I have to do the farm taxes
for my mom and my brother. And I was going
through my file cabinet getting all their tax info and
I thought, man, something doesn't look right, and I'll look down.
(29:44):
Sure enough, there was that pistol.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Okay, I can tell the story again. Were you sleep
walking and you took your pistol and put it somewhere?
Speaker 13 (29:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (29:56):
Uh? I sleep occasionally do KSD and sometimes I'll try
to cook. But apparently this time I wanted to be
anti gun, and I thought I threw it in the
trash because I couldn't find it anywhere in the house.
I even had the bomb sniffing dog from the school
(30:17):
district that I worked for come over to my house,
ran it through the house, didn't hit on anything. The
room that I have my file cabinet in is also
the room that I store all my reloading powders, so
I got in or twelve pounds of reloading power, so the.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Dog can't smell the gun with all that going on another.
Speaker 11 (30:40):
Exactly, So, I was digging through the file cabinet and
something didn't look right, and sure enough I hid it
from myself.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Well, I want to know that. The important question is
was it filed under F for firearm or a P
for pistol?
Speaker 13 (30:59):
Neither?
Speaker 11 (30:59):
It was down in the very bottom.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
It was.
Speaker 11 (31:03):
Actually it was down there right next to my mortgage,
original mortgage statement. So it was just like, why did
I do that? I have no clue.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
There you go, Well, that's a great story. I'm glad
you found your pistol. Man. Thanks, I appreciate the call, sir.
That's good stuff. Let me do this. I want to
grab Tom in Flagstaff, Arizona. This sounds interesting. Hey Tom,
you're on gun tar. What's going on?
Speaker 13 (31:30):
Mister Gresham, Thank you for taking my call. It's a
privilege speaking to you. I was down at a ranger
ready and I got to train with the Cole team
and Julie and she's just an incredible individual. So this
day I hear her voice in my head telling me
to take up the trigger and you know, giving me advice.
They're just their astounding sisters. You know, you hear their
(31:52):
accomplishments and their championships. But to see those two shoot
head to head when they were shooting the lollipops, yeah,
it's like a sub machine gun going off. Those guys
are incredible.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Well, and the other part of it, don't you find
it's like this incongruous thing. It's like, Okay, I'm hearing
a really good firearms instructor and shooter talk, but I'm
seeing what I mean. Honestly, to older folks like us
were thinking, she's just a little girl. How does she
know this stuff? Right?
Speaker 13 (32:22):
It's like she has ten pinkies, her fingers are so small,
but she has a grip on a gun that if
the Lord reached down to pick that nineteen eleven out
of her hand. She's going up back to heaven with it.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
She is so strong.
Speaker 13 (32:35):
And powerful with that grip. The way she even loads
a magazine. She can load a magazine with those little
fingers faster than I can do it with a mag
rei loader. But exactly what you're saying them when we
started to clash. You hear about all their accomplishments and
the championships they won. But once you see those young
ladies pick up a firearm and they start shooting the
(32:59):
nineteen eleven and she had a broken she had broken
bones in her foot, and she's, you know, hopping around
with a boot on her foot. You know how range
reading is a gravel range, But she's tell them the
gravel for two full days, you know, not Grimace in
just just tough as nails taking the paint. And still
when they had to shoot off with the sisters, the
issue just started the class with that, because that that
(33:21):
blew my mind, how they just empty those rounds and
those lollipops exploded.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, all right, So I got a fish for the
compliment here, but I got to just ask you Raine, ready,
it's something else, isn't it.
Speaker 13 (33:38):
Yes, sir, you said, is it cost effective?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
It was.
Speaker 13 (33:42):
It's been a dream of mine to get out there,
and I'd really wanted to. Heck, I closed out a
savings account. I'm kind of a low budget kind of guy.
I closed out, you know, a savings account and took
my wife and I out there for the privilege to
train with Chris and his whole team. His whole team's
top notch and Dan and I just happened to be
on the side of the line, in the side of
(34:02):
the classroom that we spend more time with. Now Jalice
is opposed to me. And I got to, you know,
talk to the cult ferry and I knew she was
teaching classes, but and that was down in Phoenix, and
I am, I.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Sure today that's the day she wore the tutu out there.
Speaker 13 (34:22):
Yeah, the cult fairy, exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
The cult Fairy showed up. She's got a wand and
wearing a tutu and out shooting everybody. It was hilarious.
Speaker 13 (34:30):
Oh, it was awesome. It's totally worth it. It's it's
when you say, what do you come out of the class.
I've come out with so much that I'm one of
those kind of people you've been making fun of all
these years that has guns and goes out in the
woods and shoots, that doesn't know what the hell he's doing.
I wasn't even holding my nineteen eleven correctly because with
my fat hand and without the top of beaver tail,
(34:52):
I was ditting at my thumb in the right spot.
But with those new nineteen eleven Colt competitions, you know,
it's a big beaver tail. It plus like that's super
your GT. Twenty five, It's got that killer beavertail on
the ruder. It puts my hand in the right spot.
I learned so much. I been doing everything wrong for
thirty forty years.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, but Tom, how do you find out? How do
you know you're doing it wrong? If you'd never go
get instruction, You.
Speaker 13 (35:20):
Just don't, mister Gresham. You just don't know what you
don't know? Like you always say, it really is just
like you know, I've been doing it.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
I'm shooting, I'm enjoying it, but and you think I'm
doing fine. That's the problem is you think I'm doing fine.
I'm thinking how would you know? Now? If you ever
went to shot competition, you would know because you'd see
people who could outshoot you. But if you're not shooting competition,
and if you haven't had instruction, you just as you say,
you just don't know. Well, look, I appreciate the call.
(35:48):
I appreciate you. I mean, jay Lee's and Justine, these
Willim's sisters are amazing, and yeah, a chance to get
a little instruction from her on the YouTube channel and
you can go there and do that. It's a jay
Lee's Williams shooting over on YouTube and check that out.
Great great range report too. I appreciate that they are impressed.
I mean, well, like I said, we were, we're shooting
(36:10):
video of them. They had to be twelve, and I
mean there were little young girls and thinking, okay, how's
this going to work. We're told, yeah, these are professional shooters, okay,
and then they start shooting and you're just going, holy cow. Yeah,
I get it's kind of like watching Tiger Woods, I
(36:30):
guess when he was twelve and hitting long drives and
doing what I mean. There are people who are blessed.
You know, Jerry Mitchellick was blessed. You know, these people
are blessed, and it is not true what people will
occasionally say where they said, well, you know, if I
had a sponsor, but I had an AMMO sponsor, I
could shoot that much. I could be that good man.
(36:51):
Maybe probably not more than likely not, But there's a
way to find out. If you think that way, just
go sign up for a local competition, you know, just
do your best, see what you can do, and if
you do like I do, where I showed up and went, oh, okay,
there are twelve year olds who are out shooting me here,
(37:13):
and you know, I can do what I can do,
and I know where I am at least because I've
gotten some training and I did try my hand in
competition a little bit and went, well, there's people are good.
You know something else I've figured out and I don't
know what it is. I guess that's the way you're made. Originally,
I am not a competitive person. Don't care if somebody
(37:34):
beats me, don't care if I beat somebody else. There
are people I know who it would just kills them
if somebody beats them. So I never did well at
competitive sports because I just didn't care. I mean, apart
from the lack of you know, athletic ability, that's a
problem too. I mean, I did athletic things I just
(37:56):
didn't do competitive athletic things. I did every kind of
water skiing. You can do ski shows, and you know,
we would we would pull the lid off of a
Niggoo cooler seriously, and we would ski on the lid
of a nig cooler. Just anything we could get on
(38:16):
to the top of a tabletop. We would ski on
a boat, paddle, whatever it took, and obviously we'd barefoot
ski and do all of that. I guess that's athletic,
but it's not competitive. So when I am around people
like the Williams sisters and Jerry and all these competitive shooters,
they live and die for that. They just can't believe
that people don't have that competitive drive and for whatever reason,
(38:39):
never had it, never was able to develop it. And
I mean, I'm okay with that. I'm glad there are
people like that, because if they didn't have that kind
of drive, they wouldn't work hard to figure out what
works best and how they can make themselves better. And
by them working figure out what works best and how
they could shoot, they passed that along to us and said,
(39:02):
you know, we've learned that that way. We used to
hold a pistol. That's not so good anymore. We can
do better than that. Here. Let me show you a
different way to hold that pistol. Let me show you
a different way to massage that trigger. Let me show
you a way to acquire the sites or that red
dot that we've worked on developed and it works, and
because they are that competitive, we benefit from it. I
(39:31):
was looking at the new you probably have seen it,
the new enhanced video of the guy who was charging
through the security station at the White House correspondence dinner,
and gene Piro is now saying that it's definitive that
he did in fact shoot the Secret Service agent, that
the agent was not shot by friendly fire. He was
(39:53):
shot by this guy with his shotgun. Okay, fine, we
were wondering, I mean a lot of us wondered about that.
I didn't stake out a position on it because, oh gee,
I didn't know a lot of people had real strong opinions.
And this is how it is. Well, guess what you
don't know and staking out position like that can often
(40:14):
come back and bite you, make you look foolish, and
it has. But let's go back to what do we
get out of this. Think about the reaction time we
had one officer who reacted very quickly got his gun
out and started shooting at this guy, and everybody else
is like clueless, like in It's like they're running in mud.
(40:37):
And I realized that they had all gone into condition white.
Jeff Cooper, who we talk about a good bit next week,
created the color code. White is what you are in
when you're at home and the doors are locked and
you're safe and you're not worried about anything. The moment
you step out of your house, you got to be
in yellow, which is just being actively alert, paying attention
(40:59):
to what's going on. And then there are other color codes,
but they ramp up. But frankly, I took a piece
of yellow duct tape, but I put it on in
the middle of the steering wheel of my car, just
a little piece of yellow tape. It stays there all
the time. It's my reminder. When I get in the car,
(41:19):
I go into condition yellow and I don't come out
of yellow until i'n get back in my house. What
does that do for you? Really, what it does for
you is it reduces your reaction time because you're looking
for things, You're not scared, you're not worried, you're not apprehensive.
(41:40):
You're not frightened, you're just aware. You're just looking. You're
scanning your left, you're scanning your right, you're kind of
looking around. You're seeing people's hands. It's not a big
deal once you get used to it doesn't require any
extra effort. But what it also means is you are
less likely to be surprised. When you're surprised, you're way
(42:03):
way behind the power curve and you're moving slowly. When
you can see it coming sooner, you can react more quickly,
sooner into the event. Maybe get out of the way
in the case of an oncoming vehicle. Maybe get your
gun out if that's what's necessary. Maybe fire shot if
(42:27):
that's what's necessary. And remember getting your gun out doesn't
mean you're gonna have to shoot. Something can happen between
the time you draw and when you press the trigger
that says, oh okay, we're not shooting today. It's part
it's becoming a different person a bit, and honestly, it's
one of the things you get out of a class
(42:47):
at gun side. You come away a changed person. I've
told people that I've said, prove me wrong. If you're
a class there and you think it didn't change you
and who you are, and you change your life, call
me and let me know you never had anybody say that.
How does it change? It just makes you more aware,
(43:08):
and frankly, I think it allows you to enjoy life
more because you're seeing more things, You're paying attention, you're
going out and doing stuff. If you want to pick
this up and have this conversation, we can do that
during the after show, which is coming up in just
a few minutes. Give me a call right now at
Tom Talk Gun. We'll get you in this week. As
you go through your life, try to stay in condition yellow.
(43:28):
When you step out of your house. What's going on
in that car next to you? What's going on down
the road? Five cars in front of you, not just
the bumper of the car in front of you, Know
what's going on? Look far down the road, look left
and right. See what's happening. Is that a moose? Is
that to step out in front of you. The more
you look, the more you're aware. The more you're aware,
(43:50):
the safer you are. It's as simple as that, he's
safe out there. Oh yeah, and carry all the time.
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