August 21, 2024 • 32 mins
FOX Sports Radio Weekend host Aaron Torres is in for Chris, and he and Rob explain why they have a big problem with the victimhood mentality across the WNBA right now, debate whether Los Angeles Dodgers star Shohei Ohtani or Atlanta Braves slugger Marcell Ozuna is more deserving of the NL MVP award and take Anthony Edwards to task for saying that previous generations of the NBA weren’t skilled.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brusha and Ron Harker.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Aaron Torres, go ahead, you're gonna get people in trouble
your uh you know the Connecticut Sun. You're from Connecticut,
and they played in Boston. The first WNBA game in Boston, right,
had a sellout crowd nineteen thousand plus? Was it one
hundred dollars night? I was trying to figure out was
that was? That? Was it?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
What?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
One hundred dollars night? At the game? For ever fan?
You get one hundred dollars if you come.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
On, rob It's a growing league, have some respect. So
this is what happened. So, yes, the Connecticut Son played
in Boston on Tuesday. Okay, And so basically obviously the
Connecticut Sun are based out of Connecticut. This was the
first time that they have played in Boston's TD Garden
(01:18):
that's obviously where the Celtics play. The game was announced
in December, as you said, drew a crowd of nineteen,
one hundred and twenty five people. But here's the problem.
Wasn't on TV. Maybe that's not the problem, but according
to one player, Dejohn A. Carrington, she was not happy
with the promotion of this game.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
I think that there could have been a lot more
publicity or promo from the top. You know, Connecticut had
announced that we were having this game, probably almost a
year ago, maybe I don't know, sometime after right after
last season, so it was ample time to do what
needed to be done. But it didn't matter anyway, because
(02:02):
they showed up and it was sold out.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
We got the Dubs. So I guess my tweet worked.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
And the game should have been on the national television broadcast.
You shouldn't have to pay for any type of subscription
to see a game that's this.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Historic or in my opinion, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Rob, First, I want to say this, I'm so old,
okay that I used to cover when I covered the
New Jersey Nets. I don't know if you even know this, Aaron,
the Celtics used to play four games a year in Hartford.
Of course, yes, at the old Hertford Civic Center, which
was in the mall in downtown Hartford. But people would
(02:47):
never believe that that the Celtics would give up four
home games at the Boston Garden to play in Hartford, Connecticut.
That's how long ago I was covering the NBA. This
is in the eighties.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
You'd have to ask my mom about this, but we
definitely I was a big you know, I kind of
came a as a fan. I hate to, you know,
age you here, but early nineties, and I forget if
it was Shack in his rookie year or Alonzo Morning
and Larry Johnson. That's those Charlotte Hornets teams. One of
the two, if not both, came to Harford to play
(03:21):
the Celtics, and I vividly remember going to one game.
I really like the Hornets, but I seem to remember
the Shack and the Magic, So yes, I'm very familiar.
And by the way, fun fact, the Hertford Civic Center,
now called the Excel Center, going through a major renovation
right now. It's still home of the Yukon Husky, so
(03:41):
the place is still open. It probably should have been
knocked down twenty five years ago, but that's neither here
nor there.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
So yeah, I don't know what belly Achin is about.
They sold out the game. It wasn't like they had
the game in Boston. Nobody knew it was going to
be played and four thousand people showed up. Then I
could see like the criticism of it sold out? What what? Well?
And why would it be a national game? I mean,
I just because it was in it was historic because
(04:08):
it was in Boston. Is that what she's saying? What
was the historic part of it? Well?
Speaker 4 (04:13):
No, and that I guess because it was the first
game ever in Boston. Okay, cool? Like if the uh,
you know, it's like the the Lake, Like you said,
the different teams play in different places. The Lakers play,
you know, in Vegas a couple of times a year. Like,
doesn't mean that it has to be a nationally televised game.
This also, by the way, uh is the young lady
who you know had a couple of hard fouls on
(04:35):
Caitlyn Clark when she came to town when she played
the Connecticut Son a few weeks ago.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
She's had some very interesting tweets about the state of
Caitlin Clark. You know she was. She was one that
she gave a pretty hard file of Caitlon Clark. So
this is a young lady that it feels to me, uh, certainly, listen,
she's certainly she was the one also that mocked Kate
Clark with the whole you know, the fake head, the
(05:02):
head knocked, you know, the head pullback or whatever. And
you know, I think you know, two things can be true, right,
is we can appreciate the growth of the sport does
feel like an awful lot of belly achin though, you know,
and this goes back to the beginning of the season,
all the kateon Clark stuff. But this young lady, it
feels like every single time something comes up, she's complaining
(05:23):
a lot. And I hate to say it, Roberts. All
the stuff that a lot of people have talked about
is that there's more exposure than there's ever been already,
there's only so many national TV games, and it's like,
I'm just tired of everybody in the WNBA thinking they
are are owed everything when in reality, if I'm gonna
be honest, and maybe you disagree, I don't think anybody
(05:43):
really cared about WNBA until Kitlyn Clark and Angel Rees
showed up.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I'm with you, I'm not. Still it still doesn't move me.
I've seen the highlights, but if I've watched, I haven't
watched a full w NBA game. I just I'm not that.
I'm just not into it. And it's no dis respect
to people who want to watch women's basketball. It just
doesn't do anything for me. I hate to break it
to you. During the summer, guess what I watch. I
(06:08):
watch baseball every night.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Well, you're a Hall of Fame voter. No, no, that's
what I watch.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
It's just it has nothing to do with the WNBA.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
This might actually make me sound even worse than you
saying you don't watch it all. The only game I
tuned into was the follow up game. If you remember,
early in the year, Caitlin Clark and Indiana played Angel
Reese and the Sky Chicago and Angel Rees had a
really hard following Caitlin Clark and then it was the
you know, Angel Rees had the big thing about the
(06:36):
the media is out to get us, and you know,
so you know, certain players get all the calls, and
so there was like a week of discourse and then
they played a week later and I tuned in to
see if anything crazy happened, and then of course nothing happened,
and it was just another you know, women's basketball game.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
So that's usually how it goes, right.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, I know there's a lot of hype there. There
wasn't you know? There was there as a lot of sizzle,
not a lot of steak on that particular evening.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So yeah, I mean the WNBA, I just I don't understand.
And this is the last point I'm gonna make. The
game of the sellout, wasn't it hard? Nineteen? I just
don't like, Oh, they didn't promote it. They knew about
it for a year. Obviously people knew about it for
a year because they bought tickets the Sun they play
in the casino they do, Right, what do they get
(07:21):
eight thousand people? It's not a big arena, is it.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
No, it's not. And you know, and that's what I'm
trying to I'm having trouble figuring out is like you said,
first of all, nineteen thousand people, that's a big crowd.
It's a great crowd. But what was it about the
game that warranted more coverage because it because like by
the way, let me ask you a question. Isn't it
sort of insulting to say, well, because it was a sellout,
it deserves more coverage. So you're basically acknowledging that one
(07:46):
of these crowds is essentially I don't want to say
never existed, because it's the third biggest crowd of the
WNBA season, but if it warranted more coverage, it kind
of makes you feel like, well, if it's already sold out,
then we're gonna make a big deal out of something that,
you know, maybe we should just be expecting rather than celebrating,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I just I don't get the criticism here.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
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Speaker 3 (08:51):
We know this show. Hail Tani's one of the biggest
stars in sports. You know that I would agree with
that assessment. Yes, bull take time, not just baseball. He's
one of the biggest stars in sports. He's got a
seven hundred million dollar contract. Fans all over the world,
including japan Asian people, they love him. I mean, if
(09:14):
you've been out to Dodger Stadium like I have, they
come in full force. They want to see this guy's tremendous.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
We gotta get to a game. By the way you
and I do, you can't. You can't see. The problem
is you do all Monday through Friday. That makes it tough.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
So yeah, I can still make it. I mean we
can make that all. We can do a day game,
one of the day games, okay, you know, like an
afternoon twelve thirty.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Sure, yeah, I mean, I guess with the pitch clock now,
things move faster I don't know if Rob g would
be thrilled. You know, you eating Dodger dollars.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
I'll make it. I'll get at least seven innings in Okay,
they should have a hot dog whatever.
Speaker 6 (09:45):
Hey, Rob, you, I know we can't do the conference
call because it's the seventh inning and Scoo ball is
firing right now, me and toys.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
We'll get to it later, Rob, Do you know how
it is? Sometime it bees like that does get it?
But Aaron so so we we know. And he's having
a tremendous year. You know, No DH has ever won
the MVP in the history of baseball. No DH has
ever won the MVP. But this year because he is
(10:15):
not pitching, he's just dhing for the Dodgers. When Mookie
Betts got hurt, he was moved to the lead off spot.
I can go on and on, and he has a
chance to be in a forty forty club right forty
stolen bases and forty home runs. That hasn't happened. Uh,
(10:37):
it's been it's been a it's been a minute for
somebody who have been able to do that. But I
say all of this about show Hay and how great
he's been to say this that don't look now him
winning the National League MVP ain't in the bag. It
(10:58):
is not in the back because of Marcel Azuna. Here's
the problem the Atlanta Braves DH. He's having a monster
year and is in the running for a triple crown.
He came into Tonight's Get Action right three zero nine
(11:19):
batting average, which leads the National League. He leads the
National League in RBI with ninety four and he's second
in home runs behind show Hey. Show Hay has thirty
nine right, Uh yeah, yeah, thirty nine home runs, right,
(11:40):
But he's second to Azuna, second to him. But he's
in the in the hunt for the triple crown. And
here's the history about it. If Azuna can win the
triple crown, I don't see how anybody in their right
place mine would not vote him to be the MVP
(12:03):
despite what show Hay has done. And he's had a
tremendous season, but he's not leading in every category. You know, like,
how can can you ignore this and just look at
show Hay and say, well he was forty forty or
would you have to look at it. There hasn't been
a triple crown winn Are you ready? Since twenty twelve
(12:25):
Miguel Cabrera with the Tigers did it, So it doesn't
happen very often that somebody's a triple Crown winner. And
we talked about the DH thing, but I don't know.
He would be the first National League player to pull
off the triple crown. You're ready? Since nineteen thirty seven, Wow,
(12:48):
nineteen thirty seven, no one's done in the National League.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
So let me ask you two follow up questions. One,
if he doesn't get the triple Crown but obviously has
an incredible season, does that he should be in the
race but he isn't the definitive winner? Is that fair
to say? Or do we do you disagree with that statement?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
It just depends because if he leads the league in
hitting an RBI, say, and Old Tani beats him in
home runs by one or two, right, so he doesn't
get that. He still would have two things. Now, Old
Tani has his stolen bases, that's what he does. He
has thirty seven stolen bases. And if he does it,
he would be the sixth player to be in a
(13:29):
forty forty club That doesn't happen forty home runs in
forty stolen bases. I just think that most of the season,
everybody thought it was a four going shirt, that Aaron
Judge would win it in the American League and sho
haal Tani would win an a National league would agree
with that.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, no, that has been the sentiment. And my follow
up to not just that question, my second question was, obviously,
Dodgers right now are in control or at least in
the lead in the NL West, best record in baseball
or best record in the New League excuse me, best
record in baseball as well. You know, Braves very much
in the mix for a wildcard spot. Do you think
(14:08):
if the Braves were not to win, not to get
a wildcard? Obviously in this scenario, they you know, in
the scenario that I'm framing, not don't get a wildcard,
don't win the NL East with the Phillies running away
with that division. If they don't make the playoffs, but
Ozuna wins the Triple Crown, do you believe he would
still deserve the MVP.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
I don't think there's ever been someone to win the
Triple Crown and didn't win the MVP, and they tried
in twenty twelve. I remember this very vividly because I
was working in Detroit and there were a lot of
steam heads and all of these uh pocket protector analytic
geeks who were trying to make a case that Mike
(14:49):
Trout should be the MVP and not Miguel Cabrera who
won a triple card. And I'm like, dude, stop it, Like,
can we not ignore the numbers that leads the league
in home runs RBIs.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Batting average and batting average, and.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
You're gonna say that that guy doesn't deserve to win
the MVP. The ludicrous and the same thing here with Ozuna.
As much as it's going to be epic for Otani
to be in a forty forty club, sure, sure, but
would you take forty forty club He'll be the sixth
guy to ever do it. But if Ozuna wins a
(15:31):
triple crown on the National League, the first since nineteen
thirty seven, which one has more weight.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
First triple crown in the NL since six thirty seven
is pretty impressive. I'm not gonna lie. I guess my
only pushback would be is the one thing I will say,
I think in other sports, and I think mostly the NBA,
I do think the MVP has been a little bastardized,
if you will. I hope I can say that on radio.
I'm sure I can't. You know, it's common, you know, lingo, whatever,
(15:57):
but it does feel like too much. The MVP conversation
in other sports is just about did you put up
cool numbers or not? And it doesn't have to do
with actual impact on the court. You know, you go
back to a couple of years ago, and I love
the joke. It's the joker, but you know, the first
year he won his MVP, Chris Paul, of course, that
(16:17):
was his first year in Phoenix, and they went from
a complete laughing stock to the NBA finals. And I
sat there and said, how can you be more valuable
than Chris Paul going from you know, completely out of
the playoffs to whatever. They were the one two seed
that year. And so I bring it up because I
guess my only argument against Ozuna is the stats are
(16:38):
really cool. But you know, I got to see how
the team finishes before I get too excited. If they
flail down the stretch, I would feel differently. But even that,
and I know I'm contradicting myself, but I mean, you know,
you're doing this without Ronald Dakunia. Obviously Riley's banged up
as well.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
He just went out. He's out for the rest of
the season, right exactly. And it's also my Michael Harris
the second miss two months. I could go down the line.
There actually a lot of holes in that lineup because
there's so many injuries. So what he's doing is actually
pretty impressive without the support in the batting order, and
you know that Joe was hitting behind you and all
(17:16):
that matters in baseball.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Well, and that's where I think, you know, the casual
would sit there and talk about Otani's value is that
not only is he putting up unbelievable stats, but he's
doing in a year where Mookie Bets miss forty games,
the staff is all banged up. But you can make
the same argument for Marcelo Zuna. So, Rob, I hate
to say this because I know you bring me on.
I know you bring me on here to have big, strong,
(17:38):
bold opinions. Agree with you, disagree with you whatever. I'm
not ready to like. I'm not ready to call it
for one guy or the other. And I do think
that you know, if you just look at it on paper,
how could you give the award to anyone other than
show Hey, but I do think if Ozuna does something
that hasn't been done in close to one hundred years
while leading his team to the playoffs in a year
where so many guys on that roster are banged up
(18:01):
out for the year, been out for COUTI has been
out since what like the middle of May something like that. Yeah, yeah,
so yeah. I hate to be a fence sitter here.
That's the worst thing you could be in sports talk radio.
But it's like, I can absolutely see the argument that
he should not only be in the conversation, but then
he should win the award. I guess all I would
say right now is I have to see how how
(18:22):
the season ends for both of those guys, because obviously
show Hayes doing it on a team that's loaded too,
but also a team that has dealt with their own
injury issues and things of that nature.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
And just let's put it on the record. According to
fan duel ChIL City, Yeah, checko City, that's right, Otani
holds a commanding lead in the race for nl MVP.
He's the heavy favorite at minus thirty five hundred right
to take home his second consecutive MVP Award and Ozuna
(18:52):
is actually a distant third at plus thirty one hundred.
And here's the part where it's bad because Otani the
bigger star. We know that, right, He's a household name.
I just talked about it, and it shouldn't be based
on that. Sure, it really should not. That he has
star power. He has the bigger name. Everybody knows him,
(19:14):
and he's having a great year. So I'm not trying
to pooh pooh his year or acting like he's not
in the mix. He's definitely in the mix. And if
a Zuna Azuna doesn't uh get the triple Crown, then
he won't win like like I I believe that. But
with the triple Crown, to me, there's no doubt who
(19:35):
should be the National League MVP.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Well, listen, I know that makes sense, No, one hundred percent.
I was gonna say, I know how Shekel City works.
It's not what you're what somebody should bet, it's what
you're betting. I think Ozuna with the third best odds
and uh it might might be the might be the
play here. I'm a thirty one hundred yeah, I I'm
not telling you what you should do. I'm just telling
you what I might do when I get home, because, uh,
because I like the odds there. But yeah, I I
(20:00):
I have to see how the season plays out, frankly
for both guys, and I know it's obviously there's six
weeks left in the regular season, so there's time one
way or the other. But yeah, I think when I
first looked at this, I sat there and said, oh,
it's hard to argue against Otani, but I'll be honest,
like the more that you made the argument, and I
think more significantly, not just that you made the argument,
the fact that he's not only putting up historic numbers,
(20:21):
but he's doing it in a year where his team
needs that, And I think that's the important thing. Right.
I talked about the word value in most valuable player.
I think he's every bit as valuable as Shohey Otani
through one hundred and twenty five, one hundred and thirty games,
whatever it's been to this point. The question is for
the final month of the season, can he help keep
his team in playoff contention.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
with Chris Brussard and Rob Parker weekdays at seven pm
Eastern four PM Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Rob G. I want to bring you in so that
you can tell us with Anthony Edwards got America's basketball
former basketball players panties in a bunch, a collective bunch
when he had some words about players in the NBA.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Oh, he got everybody riled up.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
Rob Parker, including Odd Couple friend of the show Isaiah Thomas.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I know Isaiah. Zeke wasn't having it.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
And you know, fun fact about Zeke is he does
not want to come on The Odd Couple anymore because
he says that our social media team misquotes him. But
apparently it's happened every single time he's been on the show.
I mean I've went back and listened. It's never happened once.
But he just doesn't like the way his quotes read
in print. Versus when he says that.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Okay, I mean we respect Isaiah.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah, so that's cool. I mean, we still like Isaiah.
But that's why he doesn't like him up the show anymore.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
Unbelievable, but in any event, At the Edwards did a
long form interview with The Wall Street Journals, said a
lot of different things about his career, his championship aspiration
and so on and so forth. But one thing he
said got everybody riled up. And he was talking about
the players of yesteryear. Here's what he said.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Quote.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
I didn't watch it back in the day, so I
can't speak on it, but.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
I'm gonna speak on it. They say it was.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
Tougher back then than it is now talking about eighties
and nineties basketball. But I don't think anybody had any
skill back then. Oh MJ was the only one that
really had skill, you know what I mean. So that's
why when they saw Kobe, they were like, oh my god,
But now everybody has skill.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
This is typical Aaron prisoner of the moment, uh, someone
who's just not like everybody. Every There are people out
here who think everything that happened yesterday is better than
anything that's ever happened. And I think it's I feel
so bad that even and it happens a lot in
the NBA. In order to try to make people feel
(22:52):
better about the players, they have to downgrade or ridicule
the past. Sure, JJ Reddick did it. Plumbers and butchers.
Everybody had a second job JJ back then because they
didn't make a lot of money. Okay, so in the
off season. I remember Richie Hebner was a third basement
for the Mets. He was a grave digger in the
off season. That's how he made extra money. People didn't
(23:14):
make that kind of money, so they had other jobs
when they weren't playing pro sports. But the notion, the
idea that these guys didn't have skills, is just outrageous.
It's it's ludicrous and and this is why, which is
which is surprising to me when I hear people say this, Well,
(23:36):
I wasn't there. I didn't see it. So wait a minute, Aaron,
we we didn't see Cee Babe Ruth play.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
But he sucked.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
But right, he sucked? Oh yeah, I look at that
fat guy. He looked like he was eating a hot
dog when he was around the first base.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
We don't discount what he was able to accomplish during
that time. We weren't around when Martin Luther King, or
a lot of people weren't when Martin Luther King was around.
Does that anyone in the great Man could We weren't
what we weren't here?
Speaker 4 (24:03):
We just stunk? Would it never held up in twenty
twenty exactly? I have a dream boring getting off my TV? Yeah,
I mean, what what is this? So a couple thoughts. So,
first of all, you're prisoner of the moment thing. This
is a theory that I have had for a while,
is I. And we see it, by the way, with
all these law and I'm not trying to be political here.
(24:25):
I know it's a political season, but all these laws,
all these things, and it's like, yeah, we we tried
this this thing thirty years ago, it didn't work, and
we've come full circle on it, right, Like Rob, I'll
give you an example. You know New York City, Well, right,
a couple months ago they had the National Guard in
the subways because the subways were out of control. Well
guess what that happened in the nineteen eighties, and they
figured out how to clean it up back then. But
(24:47):
now everyone's like, no, no, no, you got to the point
I'm trying to make everything is cyclical. But yes, but basketball,
for some reason I agree with you, is it feels
like there is this to denigrate the previous eras. Yes,
And a couple things stand out. One as first of all,
I just think it's dumb to compare eras period because
(25:10):
I was telling Rob genus before the show is like, yeah,
Patrick Ewing was a back to the basket center. Okay,
guess what if Patrick Ewing was born in two thousand
and one instead of nineteen sixty one, he would have
been you know, he would have been shooting threes growing up,
and so he would that would have been.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Part Michael Jordan would have been shooting threes if that's
what the game was.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
You know what I was even thinking about today. Remember
Lebron wasn't a good three point shooter when he came
into the league because three point shooting wasn't as important,
and so it's dumb to compare eras. But it's also,
by the way, can I say this, it's dumb to
say that MJ was THELA one with skill. Reggie Miller
not sure if you're heard of him. Larry Bird, not
sure if you heard of him. Ray Allen, by the way,
(25:50):
was drafted in ninety five, So ninety five by definition
means you played in the nineties, second best three points
shooter of all time. Larry Bird, you probably heard of him,
Magic Chi Matgic Johnson couln't shoot doesn't mean he wasn't skilled.
It's like, it's so stupid. But then it goes back
to what you said, rob By the way, when when
you open a conversation by saying, yeah, I didn't really
(26:12):
see it, so I shouldn't speak.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
On it, and then you speak on it.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
And then he speak on it. Just don't say anything,
or yeah, I don't know whatever. He's certainly entitled to
his opinion.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
But this is why, this is why I always and
I don't I notice was a full uh interview. I
didn't read it in the Wall Street Journal, the whole things,
but I hope the reporter there just pushed back to
be like, like, like really like there were no skilled players,
because I would have done that. You mean, oh so
Larry Bird wasn't a skilled players? Oh well I didn't
see Larry Bird. Well, okay, that's fine, you could say that.
(26:44):
But to say that Michael Jordan, could you because you're
wearing his sneakers, Sure, so you're gonna give him and
say he was the only he was a great player
on the greatest player of all time in my s
the mation in the NBA right, who's ever played? But
to say he was the only skilled player is just
short sighted. It's just not realistic. It's foolish. It's it's
(27:09):
the recency biased. I mean, I just I know these
guys are young, but you don't have to experience everything
to know that something's great. You don't have to. You
don't have to there are great We know that there's
so many great people in the world who are around
way before we got here. Sure don't we don't acknowledge them,
(27:29):
of course we do, yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Now, And I think the other thing that bothers me
too is the lack of context of what you said
about how different things were back then. And so Anthony
Edwards isn't the perfect example because you know he does
this crazy thing. He actually shows up and plays every
night if he's healthy enough to play. You know, there's
nother but like you know, like when JJ Reddick did
his plumbers and Firefighters thing, It's like, yeah, I don't
(27:54):
know how Bob Coosey in nineteen If you put nineteen
fifty six Bob Coosey in twenty twenty five, NBA, I
don't know how he do. But I also know this
put whoever Anthony Edwards Zion Williamson now, as you said, Rob,
ask them to work a part time job during the
summer ask them to ride trains to away games, no
(28:18):
personal messuses, no no five star hotels, you're how about
we're in Chuck Taylor's with no arches exactly. And so
it's just, again it's stupid to compare eras, but if
you're going to do it, at least have a little
bit of context. And beyond that, it's just I just
don't understand this argument of there there was no skilled players. Now,
(28:41):
if you want to argue, hey, the skill across the
board is a little bit better now than it was
thirty years.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Ago, that's a different conversation.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Different conversation. And again, I still think the context matters
of the game was taught differently back then. There were
different values back then. The back to the basket center
meant more back then, But it doesn't. It doesn't change
the fact that, yes, the league across the board is
probably more skilled. But to say Michael Jordan was the
only skilled one. Oh, by the way, I didn't actually watch,
I have no context, but I'm gonna say it anyway.
(29:09):
It's just absurd.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
It is, it's really really crazy. But to hear this
so often, I don't know what the NBA thing is.
I don't know why they feel compelled to diss the
past of the NBA. I mean, I've been covering the
league since nineteen eighty seven. I just there are a
lot of great players.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
The other thing, too, is it feels like it feels
like the last year more than ever. And I don't
know if it's because the older players are pushing back
on the younger players. It feels like there has been
a concerted effort by the modern player and I think
the modern media too in some ways, not you, not Chris,
not myself obviously, but enough people to try to tear
down that era, right, Like you think about the fact
(29:50):
that remember in the playoffs, Anthony, how many people had
this take? Rob And I'm guessing you did not, But
how manny had this take? Anthony Edwards wins one playoff series.
I'm not saying he's Michael Jordan, yeah, but oh he's
pretty darn close. It's like, maybe a guy can win, like,
I don't know, two championships before we start comparing him
to Michael Jordan three. I mean, that is that unreasonable?
(30:13):
And then it was with the Dream Team, well, I
mean the Dream Team couldn't have competed against this team
and it's like, well, are they playing in nineteen ninety
two rules? Are they playing in twenty twenty four rules?
Like It's just it does feel like the last twelve months,
more than ever, there's been this effort to really kind
of tear down previous eras. And I don't know if
it's a media thing. I don't know if it's current players,
I don't know what it is.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Part of it is in some of the uh, the
the analysts and people who the younger guy like like
and I mean, it's for real. They don't want Michael
Jordano that You're to be as relevant because they didn't
see it, sure, and so they try to discount it
(30:55):
because when they are when the other guys are talking
who actually covered Michael Jordan and covered Lebron James, that
they it's harder for them for them to count understand
what I'm saying. So we'll discount what happened with Michael
Jordan and say it wasn't that great, so that Lebron
(31:15):
is and now I have like some sort of superpowers
or I'm the voice of the NBA because I'm only
talking about Lebron and I saw his career, but I
didn't see Michael's career. I think it's lame, and I
hear guys do it all the time where they try
to discount what's happened before. History is a part of
the game. Context is important.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
No doubt, and I do wonder if some of these
modern guys too, that are now in the media, that
are coming up, if somehow it validates their career.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
So, like we talked about JJ Reddick Kendrick Perkins, who
I don't know, you know, I have no like fundamental issue,
but it seems as though he's another one. He played
with Lebron, he played with KAD, so it kind of
validates his career to be like, you know, let me
tell you.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
These were the greatest guys who ever played.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
So I think there's all something to it. But I
first of all, take is dumb. But listen, everyone's telling
to their opinion. My personal take on Anthony Edwards's take
is that it's dumb. But I think more importantly, it
feels like the last year or so there's been a
real concerted effort to tear down that, especially that MJ
era of the early nineties
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brusha and Ron Harker.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Aaron Torres, go ahead, you're gonna get people in trouble
your uh you know the Connecticut Sun. You're from Connecticut,
and they played in Boston. The first WNBA game in Boston, right,
had a sellout crowd nineteen thousand plus? Was it one
hundred dollars night? I was trying to figure out was
that was? That? Was it?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
What?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
One hundred dollars night? At the game? For ever fan?
You get one hundred dollars if you come.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
On, rob It's a growing league, have some respect. So
this is what happened. So, yes, the Connecticut Son played
in Boston on Tuesday. Okay, And so basically obviously the
Connecticut Sun are based out of Connecticut. This was the
first time that they have played in Boston's TD Garden
(01:18):
that's obviously where the Celtics play. The game was announced
in December, as you said, drew a crowd of nineteen,
one hundred and twenty five people. But here's the problem.
Wasn't on TV. Maybe that's not the problem, but according
to one player, Dejohn A. Carrington, she was not happy
with the promotion of this game.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
I think that there could have been a lot more
publicity or promo from the top. You know, Connecticut had
announced that we were having this game, probably almost a
year ago, maybe I don't know, sometime after right after
last season, so it was ample time to do what
needed to be done. But it didn't matter anyway, because
(02:02):
they showed up and it was sold out.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
We got the Dubs. So I guess my tweet worked.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
And the game should have been on the national television broadcast.
You shouldn't have to pay for any type of subscription
to see a game that's this.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Historic or in my opinion, what do you think?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Rob, First, I want to say this, I'm so old,
okay that I used to cover when I covered the
New Jersey Nets. I don't know if you even know this, Aaron,
the Celtics used to play four games a year in Hartford.
Of course, yes, at the old Hertford Civic Center, which
was in the mall in downtown Hartford. But people would
(02:47):
never believe that that the Celtics would give up four
home games at the Boston Garden to play in Hartford, Connecticut.
That's how long ago I was covering the NBA. This
is in the eighties.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
You'd have to ask my mom about this, but we
definitely I was a big you know, I kind of
came a as a fan. I hate to, you know,
age you here, but early nineties, and I forget if
it was Shack in his rookie year or Alonzo Morning
and Larry Johnson. That's those Charlotte Hornets teams. One of
the two, if not both, came to Harford to play
(03:21):
the Celtics, and I vividly remember going to one game.
I really like the Hornets, but I seem to remember
the Shack and the Magic, So yes, I'm very familiar.
And by the way, fun fact, the Hertford Civic Center,
now called the Excel Center, going through a major renovation
right now. It's still home of the Yukon Husky, so
(03:41):
the place is still open. It probably should have been
knocked down twenty five years ago, but that's neither here
nor there.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
So yeah, I don't know what belly Achin is about.
They sold out the game. It wasn't like they had
the game in Boston. Nobody knew it was going to
be played and four thousand people showed up. Then I
could see like the criticism of it sold out? What what? Well?
And why would it be a national game? I mean,
I just because it was in it was historic because
(04:08):
it was in Boston. Is that what she's saying? What
was the historic part of it? Well?
Speaker 4 (04:13):
No, and that I guess because it was the first
game ever in Boston. Okay, cool? Like if the uh,
you know, it's like the the Lake, Like you said,
the different teams play in different places. The Lakers play,
you know, in Vegas a couple of times a year. Like,
doesn't mean that it has to be a nationally televised game.
This also, by the way, uh is the young lady
who you know had a couple of hard fouls on
(04:35):
Caitlyn Clark when she came to town when she played
the Connecticut Son a few weeks ago.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
She's had some very interesting tweets about the state of
Caitlin Clark. You know she was. She was one that
she gave a pretty hard file of Caitlon Clark. So
this is a young lady that it feels to me, uh, certainly, listen,
she's certainly she was the one also that mocked Kate
Clark with the whole you know, the fake head, the
(05:02):
head knocked, you know, the head pullback or whatever. And
you know, I think you know, two things can be true, right,
is we can appreciate the growth of the sport does
feel like an awful lot of belly achin though, you know,
and this goes back to the beginning of the season,
all the kateon Clark stuff. But this young lady, it
feels like every single time something comes up, she's complaining
(05:23):
a lot. And I hate to say it, Roberts. All
the stuff that a lot of people have talked about
is that there's more exposure than there's ever been already,
there's only so many national TV games, and it's like,
I'm just tired of everybody in the WNBA thinking they
are are owed everything when in reality, if I'm gonna
be honest, and maybe you disagree, I don't think anybody
(05:43):
really cared about WNBA until Kitlyn Clark and Angel Rees
showed up.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I'm with you, I'm not. Still it still doesn't move me.
I've seen the highlights, but if I've watched, I haven't
watched a full w NBA game. I just I'm not that.
I'm just not into it. And it's no dis respect
to people who want to watch women's basketball. It just
doesn't do anything for me. I hate to break it
to you. During the summer, guess what I watch. I
(06:08):
watch baseball every night.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Well, you're a Hall of Fame voter. No, no, that's
what I watch.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
It's just it has nothing to do with the WNBA.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
This might actually make me sound even worse than you
saying you don't watch it all. The only game I
tuned into was the follow up game. If you remember,
early in the year, Caitlin Clark and Indiana played Angel
Reese and the Sky Chicago and Angel Rees had a
really hard following Caitlin Clark and then it was the
you know, Angel Rees had the big thing about the
(06:36):
the media is out to get us, and you know,
so you know, certain players get all the calls, and
so there was like a week of discourse and then
they played a week later and I tuned in to
see if anything crazy happened, and then of course nothing happened,
and it was just another you know, women's basketball game.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
So that's usually how it goes, right.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, I know there's a lot of hype there. There
wasn't you know? There was there as a lot of sizzle,
not a lot of steak on that particular evening.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So yeah, I mean the WNBA, I just I don't understand.
And this is the last point I'm gonna make. The
game of the sellout, wasn't it hard? Nineteen? I just
don't like, Oh, they didn't promote it. They knew about
it for a year. Obviously people knew about it for
a year because they bought tickets the Sun they play
in the casino they do, Right, what do they get
(07:21):
eight thousand people? It's not a big arena, is it.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
No, it's not. And you know, and that's what I'm
trying to I'm having trouble figuring out is like you said,
first of all, nineteen thousand people, that's a big crowd.
It's a great crowd. But what was it about the
game that warranted more coverage because it because like by
the way, let me ask you a question. Isn't it
sort of insulting to say, well, because it was a sellout,
it deserves more coverage. So you're basically acknowledging that one
(07:46):
of these crowds is essentially I don't want to say
never existed, because it's the third biggest crowd of the
WNBA season, but if it warranted more coverage, it kind
of makes you feel like, well, if it's already sold out,
then we're gonna make a big deal out of something that,
you know, maybe we should just be expecting rather than celebrating,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I just I don't get the criticism here.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
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Speaker 7 (08:19):
Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben
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we chat with captains of industry in media, sports, and
(08:41):
more every week explore some.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Amazing facts about human nature and more.
Speaker 7 (08:46):
Listen to the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller or the
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Speaker 3 (08:51):
We know this show. Hail Tani's one of the biggest
stars in sports. You know that I would agree with
that assessment. Yes, bull take time, not just baseball. He's
one of the biggest stars in sports. He's got a
seven hundred million dollar contract. Fans all over the world,
including japan Asian people, they love him. I mean, if
(09:14):
you've been out to Dodger Stadium like I have, they
come in full force. They want to see this guy's tremendous.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
We gotta get to a game. By the way you
and I do, you can't. You can't see. The problem
is you do all Monday through Friday. That makes it tough.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
So yeah, I can still make it. I mean we
can make that all. We can do a day game,
one of the day games, okay, you know, like an
afternoon twelve thirty.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Sure, yeah, I mean, I guess with the pitch clock now,
things move faster I don't know if Rob g would
be thrilled. You know, you eating Dodger dollars.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
I'll make it. I'll get at least seven innings in Okay,
they should have a hot dog whatever.
Speaker 6 (09:45):
Hey, Rob, you, I know we can't do the conference
call because it's the seventh inning and Scoo ball is
firing right now, me and toys.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
We'll get to it later, Rob, Do you know how
it is? Sometime it bees like that does get it?
But Aaron so so we we know. And he's having
a tremendous year. You know, No DH has ever won
the MVP in the history of baseball. No DH has
ever won the MVP. But this year because he is
(10:15):
not pitching, he's just dhing for the Dodgers. When Mookie
Betts got hurt, he was moved to the lead off spot.
I can go on and on, and he has a
chance to be in a forty forty club right forty
stolen bases and forty home runs. That hasn't happened. Uh,
(10:37):
it's been it's been a it's been a minute for
somebody who have been able to do that. But I
say all of this about show Hay and how great
he's been to say this that don't look now him
winning the National League MVP ain't in the bag. It
(10:58):
is not in the back because of Marcel Azuna. Here's
the problem the Atlanta Braves DH. He's having a monster
year and is in the running for a triple crown.
He came into Tonight's Get Action right three zero nine
(11:19):
batting average, which leads the National League. He leads the
National League in RBI with ninety four and he's second
in home runs behind show Hey. Show Hay has thirty
nine right, Uh yeah, yeah, thirty nine home runs, right,
(11:40):
But he's second to Azuna, second to him. But he's
in the in the hunt for the triple crown. And
here's the history about it. If Azuna can win the
triple crown, I don't see how anybody in their right
place mine would not vote him to be the MVP
(12:03):
despite what show Hay has done. And he's had a
tremendous season, but he's not leading in every category. You know, like,
how can can you ignore this and just look at
show Hay and say, well he was forty forty or
would you have to look at it. There hasn't been
a triple crown winn Are you ready? Since twenty twelve
(12:25):
Miguel Cabrera with the Tigers did it, So it doesn't
happen very often that somebody's a triple Crown winner. And
we talked about the DH thing, but I don't know.
He would be the first National League player to pull
off the triple crown. You're ready? Since nineteen thirty seven, Wow,
(12:48):
nineteen thirty seven, no one's done in the National League.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
So let me ask you two follow up questions. One,
if he doesn't get the triple Crown but obviously has
an incredible season, does that he should be in the
race but he isn't the definitive winner? Is that fair
to say? Or do we do you disagree with that statement?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
It just depends because if he leads the league in
hitting an RBI, say, and Old Tani beats him in
home runs by one or two, right, so he doesn't
get that. He still would have two things. Now, Old
Tani has his stolen bases, that's what he does. He
has thirty seven stolen bases. And if he does it,
he would be the sixth player to be in a
(13:29):
forty forty club That doesn't happen forty home runs in
forty stolen bases. I just think that most of the season,
everybody thought it was a four going shirt, that Aaron
Judge would win it in the American League and sho
haal Tani would win an a National league would agree
with that.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, no, that has been the sentiment. And my follow
up to not just that question, my second question was, obviously,
Dodgers right now are in control or at least in
the lead in the NL West, best record in baseball
or best record in the New League excuse me, best
record in baseball as well. You know, Braves very much
in the mix for a wildcard spot. Do you think
(14:08):
if the Braves were not to win, not to get
a wildcard? Obviously in this scenario, they you know, in
the scenario that I'm framing, not don't get a wildcard,
don't win the NL East with the Phillies running away
with that division. If they don't make the playoffs, but
Ozuna wins the Triple Crown, do you believe he would
still deserve the MVP.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
I don't think there's ever been someone to win the
Triple Crown and didn't win the MVP, and they tried
in twenty twelve. I remember this very vividly because I
was working in Detroit and there were a lot of
steam heads and all of these uh pocket protector analytic
geeks who were trying to make a case that Mike
(14:49):
Trout should be the MVP and not Miguel Cabrera who
won a triple card. And I'm like, dude, stop it, Like,
can we not ignore the numbers that leads the league
in home runs RBIs.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Batting average and batting average, and.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
You're gonna say that that guy doesn't deserve to win
the MVP. The ludicrous and the same thing here with Ozuna.
As much as it's going to be epic for Otani
to be in a forty forty club, sure, sure, but
would you take forty forty club He'll be the sixth
guy to ever do it. But if Ozuna wins a
(15:31):
triple crown on the National League, the first since nineteen
thirty seven, which one has more weight.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
First triple crown in the NL since six thirty seven
is pretty impressive. I'm not gonna lie. I guess my
only pushback would be is the one thing I will say,
I think in other sports, and I think mostly the NBA,
I do think the MVP has been a little bastardized,
if you will. I hope I can say that on radio.
I'm sure I can't. You know, it's common, you know, lingo, whatever,
(15:57):
but it does feel like too much. The MVP conversation
in other sports is just about did you put up
cool numbers or not? And it doesn't have to do
with actual impact on the court. You know, you go
back to a couple of years ago, and I love
the joke. It's the joker, but you know, the first
year he won his MVP, Chris Paul, of course, that
(16:17):
was his first year in Phoenix, and they went from
a complete laughing stock to the NBA finals. And I
sat there and said, how can you be more valuable
than Chris Paul going from you know, completely out of
the playoffs to whatever. They were the one two seed
that year. And so I bring it up because I
guess my only argument against Ozuna is the stats are
(16:38):
really cool. But you know, I got to see how
the team finishes before I get too excited. If they
flail down the stretch, I would feel differently. But even that,
and I know I'm contradicting myself, but I mean, you know,
you're doing this without Ronald Dakunia. Obviously Riley's banged up
as well.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
He just went out. He's out for the rest of
the season, right exactly. And it's also my Michael Harris
the second miss two months. I could go down the line.
There actually a lot of holes in that lineup because
there's so many injuries. So what he's doing is actually
pretty impressive without the support in the batting order, and
you know that Joe was hitting behind you and all
(17:16):
that matters in baseball.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Well, and that's where I think, you know, the casual
would sit there and talk about Otani's value is that
not only is he putting up unbelievable stats, but he's
doing in a year where Mookie Bets miss forty games,
the staff is all banged up. But you can make
the same argument for Marcelo Zuna. So, Rob, I hate
to say this because I know you bring me on.
I know you bring me on here to have big, strong,
(17:38):
bold opinions. Agree with you, disagree with you whatever. I'm
not ready to like. I'm not ready to call it
for one guy or the other. And I do think
that you know, if you just look at it on paper,
how could you give the award to anyone other than
show Hey, but I do think if Ozuna does something
that hasn't been done in close to one hundred years
while leading his team to the playoffs in a year
where so many guys on that roster are banged up
(18:01):
out for the year, been out for COUTI has been
out since what like the middle of May something like that. Yeah, yeah,
so yeah. I hate to be a fence sitter here.
That's the worst thing you could be in sports talk radio.
But it's like, I can absolutely see the argument that
he should not only be in the conversation, but then
he should win the award. I guess all I would
say right now is I have to see how how
(18:22):
the season ends for both of those guys, because obviously
show Hayes doing it on a team that's loaded too,
but also a team that has dealt with their own
injury issues and things of that nature.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
And just let's put it on the record. According to
fan duel ChIL City, Yeah, checko City, that's right, Otani
holds a commanding lead in the race for nl MVP.
He's the heavy favorite at minus thirty five hundred right
to take home his second consecutive MVP Award and Ozuna
(18:52):
is actually a distant third at plus thirty one hundred.
And here's the part where it's bad because Otani the
bigger star. We know that, right, He's a household name.
I just talked about it, and it shouldn't be based
on that. Sure, it really should not. That he has
star power. He has the bigger name. Everybody knows him,
(19:14):
and he's having a great year. So I'm not trying
to pooh pooh his year or acting like he's not
in the mix. He's definitely in the mix. And if
a Zuna Azuna doesn't uh get the triple Crown, then
he won't win like like I I believe that. But
with the triple Crown, to me, there's no doubt who
(19:35):
should be the National League MVP.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Well, listen, I know that makes sense, No, one hundred percent.
I was gonna say, I know how Shekel City works.
It's not what you're what somebody should bet, it's what
you're betting. I think Ozuna with the third best odds
and uh it might might be the might be the
play here. I'm a thirty one hundred yeah, I I'm
not telling you what you should do. I'm just telling
you what I might do when I get home, because, uh,
because I like the odds there. But yeah, I I
(20:00):
I have to see how the season plays out, frankly
for both guys, and I know it's obviously there's six
weeks left in the regular season, so there's time one
way or the other. But yeah, I think when I
first looked at this, I sat there and said, oh,
it's hard to argue against Otani, but I'll be honest,
like the more that you made the argument, and I
think more significantly, not just that you made the argument,
the fact that he's not only putting up historic numbers,
(20:21):
but he's doing it in a year where his team
needs that, And I think that's the important thing. Right.
I talked about the word value in most valuable player.
I think he's every bit as valuable as Shohey Otani
through one hundred and twenty five, one hundred and thirty games,
whatever it's been to this point. The question is for
the final month of the season, can he help keep
his team in playoff contention.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Odd Couple
with Chris Brussard and Rob Parker weekdays at seven pm
Eastern four PM Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Rob G. I want to bring you in so that
you can tell us with Anthony Edwards got America's basketball
former basketball players panties in a bunch, a collective bunch
when he had some words about players in the NBA.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Oh, he got everybody riled up.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
Rob Parker, including Odd Couple friend of the show Isaiah Thomas.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I know Isaiah. Zeke wasn't having it.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
And you know, fun fact about Zeke is he does
not want to come on The Odd Couple anymore because
he says that our social media team misquotes him. But
apparently it's happened every single time he's been on the show.
I mean I've went back and listened. It's never happened once.
But he just doesn't like the way his quotes read
in print. Versus when he says that.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Okay, I mean we respect Isaiah.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah, so that's cool. I mean, we still like Isaiah.
But that's why he doesn't like him up the show anymore.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
Unbelievable, but in any event, At the Edwards did a
long form interview with The Wall Street Journals, said a
lot of different things about his career, his championship aspiration
and so on and so forth. But one thing he
said got everybody riled up. And he was talking about
the players of yesteryear. Here's what he said.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Quote.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
I didn't watch it back in the day, so I
can't speak on it, but.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
I'm gonna speak on it. They say it was.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
Tougher back then than it is now talking about eighties
and nineties basketball. But I don't think anybody had any
skill back then. Oh MJ was the only one that
really had skill, you know what I mean. So that's
why when they saw Kobe, they were like, oh my god,
But now everybody has skill.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
This is typical Aaron prisoner of the moment, uh, someone
who's just not like everybody. Every There are people out
here who think everything that happened yesterday is better than
anything that's ever happened. And I think it's I feel
so bad that even and it happens a lot in
the NBA. In order to try to make people feel
(22:52):
better about the players, they have to downgrade or ridicule
the past. Sure, JJ Reddick did it. Plumbers and butchers.
Everybody had a second job JJ back then because they
didn't make a lot of money. Okay, so in the
off season. I remember Richie Hebner was a third basement
for the Mets. He was a grave digger in the
off season. That's how he made extra money. People didn't
(23:14):
make that kind of money, so they had other jobs
when they weren't playing pro sports. But the notion, the
idea that these guys didn't have skills, is just outrageous.
It's it's ludicrous and and this is why, which is
which is surprising to me when I hear people say this, Well,
(23:36):
I wasn't there. I didn't see it. So wait a minute, Aaron,
we we didn't see Cee Babe Ruth play.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
But he sucked.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
But right, he sucked? Oh yeah, I look at that
fat guy. He looked like he was eating a hot
dog when he was around the first base.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
We don't discount what he was able to accomplish during
that time. We weren't around when Martin Luther King, or
a lot of people weren't when Martin Luther King was around.
Does that anyone in the great Man could We weren't
what we weren't here?
Speaker 4 (24:03):
We just stunk? Would it never held up in twenty
twenty exactly? I have a dream boring getting off my TV? Yeah,
I mean, what what is this? So a couple thoughts. So,
first of all, you're prisoner of the moment thing. This
is a theory that I have had for a while,
is I. And we see it, by the way, with
all these law and I'm not trying to be political here.
(24:25):
I know it's a political season, but all these laws,
all these things, and it's like, yeah, we we tried
this this thing thirty years ago, it didn't work, and
we've come full circle on it, right, Like Rob, I'll
give you an example. You know New York City, Well, right,
a couple months ago they had the National Guard in
the subways because the subways were out of control. Well
guess what that happened in the nineteen eighties, and they
figured out how to clean it up back then. But
(24:47):
now everyone's like, no, no, no, you got to the point
I'm trying to make everything is cyclical. But yes, but basketball,
for some reason I agree with you, is it feels
like there is this to denigrate the previous eras. Yes,
And a couple things stand out. One as first of all,
I just think it's dumb to compare eras period because
(25:10):
I was telling Rob genus before the show is like, yeah,
Patrick Ewing was a back to the basket center. Okay,
guess what if Patrick Ewing was born in two thousand
and one instead of nineteen sixty one, he would have
been you know, he would have been shooting threes growing up,
and so he would that would have been.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Part Michael Jordan would have been shooting threes if that's
what the game was.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
You know what I was even thinking about today. Remember
Lebron wasn't a good three point shooter when he came
into the league because three point shooting wasn't as important,
and so it's dumb to compare eras. But it's also,
by the way, can I say this, it's dumb to
say that MJ was THELA one with skill. Reggie Miller
not sure if you're heard of him. Larry Bird, not
sure if you heard of him. Ray Allen, by the way,
(25:50):
was drafted in ninety five, So ninety five by definition
means you played in the nineties, second best three points
shooter of all time. Larry Bird, you probably heard of him,
Magic Chi Matgic Johnson couln't shoot doesn't mean he wasn't skilled.
It's like, it's so stupid. But then it goes back
to what you said, rob By the way, when when
you open a conversation by saying, yeah, I didn't really
(26:12):
see it, so I shouldn't speak.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
On it, and then you speak on it.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
And then he speak on it. Just don't say anything,
or yeah, I don't know whatever. He's certainly entitled to
his opinion.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
But this is why, this is why I always and
I don't I notice was a full uh interview. I
didn't read it in the Wall Street Journal, the whole things,
but I hope the reporter there just pushed back to
be like, like, like really like there were no skilled players,
because I would have done that. You mean, oh so
Larry Bird wasn't a skilled players? Oh well I didn't
see Larry Bird. Well, okay, that's fine, you could say that.
(26:44):
But to say that Michael Jordan, could you because you're
wearing his sneakers, Sure, so you're gonna give him and
say he was the only he was a great player
on the greatest player of all time in my s
the mation in the NBA right, who's ever played? But
to say he was the only skilled player is just
short sighted. It's just not realistic. It's foolish. It's it's
(27:09):
the recency biased. I mean, I just I know these
guys are young, but you don't have to experience everything
to know that something's great. You don't have to. You
don't have to there are great We know that there's
so many great people in the world who are around
way before we got here. Sure don't we don't acknowledge them,
(27:29):
of course we do, yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Now, And I think the other thing that bothers me
too is the lack of context of what you said
about how different things were back then. And so Anthony
Edwards isn't the perfect example because you know he does
this crazy thing. He actually shows up and plays every
night if he's healthy enough to play. You know, there's
nother but like you know, like when JJ Reddick did
his plumbers and Firefighters thing, It's like, yeah, I don't
(27:54):
know how Bob Coosey in nineteen If you put nineteen
fifty six Bob Coosey in twenty twenty five, NBA, I
don't know how he do. But I also know this
put whoever Anthony Edwards Zion Williamson now, as you said, Rob,
ask them to work a part time job during the
summer ask them to ride trains to away games, no
(28:18):
personal messuses, no no five star hotels, you're how about
we're in Chuck Taylor's with no arches exactly. And so
it's just, again it's stupid to compare eras, but if
you're going to do it, at least have a little
bit of context. And beyond that, it's just I just
don't understand this argument of there there was no skilled players. Now,
(28:41):
if you want to argue, hey, the skill across the
board is a little bit better now than it was
thirty years.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Ago, that's a different conversation.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Different conversation. And again, I still think the context matters
of the game was taught differently back then. There were
different values back then. The back to the basket center
meant more back then, But it doesn't. It doesn't change
the fact that, yes, the league across the board is
probably more skilled. But to say Michael Jordan was the
only skilled one. Oh, by the way, I didn't actually watch,
I have no context, but I'm gonna say it anyway.
(29:09):
It's just absurd.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
It is, it's really really crazy. But to hear this
so often, I don't know what the NBA thing is.
I don't know why they feel compelled to diss the
past of the NBA. I mean, I've been covering the
league since nineteen eighty seven. I just there are a
lot of great players.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
The other thing, too, is it feels like it feels
like the last year more than ever. And I don't
know if it's because the older players are pushing back
on the younger players. It feels like there has been
a concerted effort by the modern player and I think
the modern media too in some ways, not you, not Chris,
not myself obviously, but enough people to try to tear
down that era, right, Like you think about the fact
(29:50):
that remember in the playoffs, Anthony, how many people had
this take? Rob And I'm guessing you did not, But
how manny had this take? Anthony Edwards wins one playoff series.
I'm not saying he's Michael Jordan, yeah, but oh he's
pretty darn close. It's like, maybe a guy can win, like,
I don't know, two championships before we start comparing him
to Michael Jordan three. I mean, that is that unreasonable?
(30:13):
And then it was with the Dream Team, well, I
mean the Dream Team couldn't have competed against this team
and it's like, well, are they playing in nineteen ninety
two rules? Are they playing in twenty twenty four rules?
Like It's just it does feel like the last twelve months,
more than ever, there's been this effort to really kind
of tear down previous eras. And I don't know if
it's a media thing. I don't know if it's current players,
I don't know what it is.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Part of it is in some of the uh, the
the analysts and people who the younger guy like like
and I mean, it's for real. They don't want Michael
Jordano that You're to be as relevant because they didn't
see it, sure, and so they try to discount it
(30:55):
because when they are when the other guys are talking
who actually covered Michael Jordan and covered Lebron James, that
they it's harder for them for them to count understand
what I'm saying. So we'll discount what happened with Michael
Jordan and say it wasn't that great, so that Lebron
(31:15):
is and now I have like some sort of superpowers
or I'm the voice of the NBA because I'm only
talking about Lebron and I saw his career, but I
didn't see Michael's career. I think it's lame, and I
hear guys do it all the time where they try
to discount what's happened before. History is a part of
the game. Context is important.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
No doubt, and I do wonder if some of these
modern guys too, that are now in the media, that
are coming up, if somehow it validates their career.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
So, like we talked about JJ Reddick Kendrick Perkins, who
I don't know, you know, I have no like fundamental issue,
but it seems as though he's another one. He played
with Lebron, he played with KAD, so it kind of
validates his career to be like, you know, let me
tell you.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
These were the greatest guys who ever played.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
So I think there's all something to it. But I
first of all, take is dumb. But listen, everyone's telling
to their opinion. My personal take on Anthony Edwards's take
is that it's dumb. But I think more importantly, it
feels like the last year or so there's been a
real concerted effort to tear down that, especially that MJ
era of the early nineties
Hosts And Creators
kelvin washington
Rob Parker
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