June 27, 2023 • 46 mins
The Book of Joe Podcast begins with how managers handle the dog days of summer. Hosts Tom Verducci and Joe Maddon address the Rays benching Wander Franco and the recent struggles of the Yankees. We explore Joe's insight into having team meetings and when is the right time to truly benefit the players. Tom is puzzled by the struggles of the Mets and what can be changed to turn things around. Plus, it's 4th of July Weekend and Joe gives his West Coast to East Coast music recommendations for the BBQ! If you're in the Hazleton, PA and want a taste of what Joe's serving, find the Madden sauces in some local retailers!
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.
#FSR
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hi there, it's Tom Verducci with Joe Madden and it's
time for the latest episode of the Book of Joe Podcast.
Hey Joe, We're about halfway through the baseball season and
(00:24):
we've got the fourth of July weekend coming up. A
lot going on here. I can't believe we've got here already.
This season is flying by.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It does what happens. And I've talked about this before.
Spring training goes so slowly, that's like everybody. I love it,
but it's a slow dance. And then once the season games,
Wimena man, it just flies you. Jeff Ziggler, our traveling
secretary with the Rays, used to rip off a page
off that little pocket schedule after every month, and before
you know it's the end of the year. It just
(00:52):
you got to fasten the seat belts, get ready to go.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
But it gets quicker and quicker right now.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, later on I want to ask you about I
need some recommendations from you about what kind of tunes
I should be playing for my Best Cared Barbecue on
the fourth of July. That's really important stuff we're going
to get into. But you mentioned about the arc of
the season here, and obviously the teams can no longer
say it's a bad start or it's early. And in fact,
I look around baseball in the last couple of weeks here, Joe,
(01:20):
and you can see where the tensions starting to rise
on certain teams and managers. And I'm going to ask
you about when that happens, how a manager deals with it.
I call it when good players and good teams go bad.
And you know as well as I do, teams will
look to the manager to how that manager responds in
those scenarios. And there have been a certain number of
(01:43):
scenarios in the last week or so that I want
you to run by you, And I want to start
with Wander Franco and the Tampa Bay Rays. Now, they've
been playing great, there's no problem there. They got out
of the gates super fast. They really haven't taken their
foot off the pedal. But Kevin Cash had to sit
wander Franco for a couple of days. Basically, if I
(02:03):
can Parafe raised what Cash said conduct detrimental to his teammates,
Basically getting frustrated over certain things not going his way
and letting his behavior affect other players on the team,
whether it was temper tantrums or getting in somebody's face
not running something out. Joe That told me, you correct
(02:24):
me if I'm wrong here, that this was an issue
going on for a while. You know, obviously Kevin Cash
is not going to respond like that to a one
off incident. How bad do you think would have to
be for a manager, especially in today's game, to level
discipline so publicly for one of the star players.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Everything is so publicly. Yeah, I you're right, it had
to have been going on for a while. I actually
addressed this yesterday on MLB Network, And for me, what
we're permitting this to happen is my take on it.
Let me see if I could explain what I'm what
I mean, excuse me. I believe, first of all, the
manager has to be empowered for day one to met
(03:05):
out this kind of a discipline disciplinary action in conjunction
with this coaching staff and the leadership with this group.
I think sometimes the younger player that gets somewhat protected
by front offices is able to get away with things
to a certain level because it's almost like parenting. He
will get in between the front office or people whatever
higher ups, or if we want to call him and
(03:27):
the field staff and try to play one against the
other in order to curry favor because you know he's
young and he's talented.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I really think that if you just permit, you just
permit the manager to really take charge of this from
the beginning and the leadership group within the team, that
will not happen. We're just we're like, we're condoning, we're advocating.
We want them to flip the ball up in the
ear and then throw the ball the first base. We
want them to be flamboyant in the game because it's
perceived that that's what's going to bring more young people
(03:57):
to our game.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
So I think it's interconnected.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It's interconnected, and it's happen in another situations, other teams,
and it's going to continue to happen unless the growing
ups in a room take charge. That's how I describe it. Yeah, listen,
you know me and everybody it's been wrong.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I love having a good time. We celebrate every win.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
We celebrate everyone with a disco ball and a laser show.
And you know, used to be like beer throwing all
over everybody, but now it's water. But we celebrate, we
celebrate achievement, and we always do. We have fun every
day batting practice. I've actually had breakfast served on the
field part of playoff games.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
That's fun.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
But to take the game and kind of make it
more frivolous, Listen, this is not rocket science.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
But we're addressing situations on the field that should be
addressed early on, earlier on through. We don't do this here.
That's not how we're going to play here. That's inappropriate,
that's unacceptable here. Yeah, play hard, have fun, absolutely, play
with your hair on fire. But when you get to
the points where it's detrimental to the team and everybody
(05:00):
else is feeling.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It, you got to step in and do something.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So I'm just saying, empower your coaches to do this
up front, and your manager first of all in the
leadership group, and I think you'll be able to avert
some of this.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah. I love what you said there about having fun.
That everything you described there, Joe, was in the concept
of team right, And I think we're looking at something
if you want to look even really bigger, it's something
going on culturally, and we see in baseball it has
become more about me than team. It's look at me,
And you can still have the look at me within
(05:32):
a team concept when your ultimate motivation is to win
the game and to be a good teammate. There's nothing
wrong with showing some swag and having some fun, getting
that big hit, celebrating with your teammates. But when you
kind of bring that showcase baseball mentality, you know, I
have to stand out. I have to you know, everything
starts with I. I think that's where you get in trouble.
(05:53):
And I think for today's manager, Joe, I mean, that
is an uphill climb to try to preach, you know,
the true team concept when it's not being done on
the climb up to get to the major leagues.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Perfect, perfect point.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I mean the Showcase one hundred percent in agreement with that.
I've seen that probably right around twenty ten, between twenty
ten and twenty fifteen, the ascension of the showcase player,
the guy that goes out and gets on a travel
team and plays everywhere but his home city. Like Hazelton
(06:28):
beating West Hazleton it is important anymore. Now Hazelton's got
to beat Lansdale or Pennsbury or something down the road.
By Philadelphia. You just can't win here. You have to
get out and you have to travel, and when you
do that, you're not winning for the sake of winning
for the good old Mountaineers. You're trying to be best
in show. You're trying to be the best player there
(06:50):
so that you get the most notoriety and potentially the
most scholarship offers or the highest draft ranking. And that's
what these people are paying for. Parents are paying for
this stuff, and it happens. Of course, it happens to
the really talented who would have been in that situation
regardless had the money been paid or not, as long
as they've been playing somewhere.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
So where where again? I agree? I mean, listen, I'm
all fun. I'm not the no fund league. I'm the
all fund league. But I don't I can't advocate that.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I think that's it's working against you. Are injuring that
the team concept. You are promoting individuality.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Branding.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
God, I hate when I hear somebody's working on their brand.
I just that makes me cringe a little bit. So
all of this stuff is interconnected. I think one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Right, I'm with you on that brand word as well,
that brand is something that's inorganic. It's something that's created
you as a human being. Have you know inorganic personality?
Let that show. By the way, I liked what Kevin
Cash did. I thought he was upfront, transparent. I mean, listen,
you're going to have to explain yourself when your star
shortstop is not in the lineup for a couple of days.
(07:57):
So it's not like he could gloss over it. But
you tell he had rehearsed what he wanted to say.
He really didn't personally lies that. He just talked in
general about what wonder behavior where it needed help. So
good on Kevin Cash. I like the fact that he
did step up and he took accountability there. And let's
talk about Aaron Boone. With the Yankees. There was a manager,
(08:17):
it might have been Tony Larus, I'm not sure who
it was who once said, don't let us star fall
on you managing star players, established players who are having
a tough time. Man, Joe, that's got to be tough
for a manager. And I look at the Yankees right
now with Aaron Judge out of the lineup, and some
of Aaron Boone's stars simply are not performing well. You
(08:39):
have John Carlos Stanton who is hitting sixty eight against
fastballs this month, continually beaten by fastballs, and the same
is really happening with Josh Donaldson. He's hitting one twenty
one against fastballs, including sixty seven when it's ninety five
and above. These are star players who are just their
timing just is not there. They're getting beat So you know,
(09:02):
Aaron Boone has some other options. He's got a deep
roster and he did not have Donaldson in the lineup
for a couple of days and that required a couple
of meetings with Josh Dollinson, who let it be known
he wasn't happy about it. I don't know if you've
had specific cases like that, Joe, but that's got to
be really, really difficult when you've got the established player
(09:22):
who seems to have urged your trust. But there comes
a point where you've just got to set the player
down and explain it to him why you're doing it.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Been there.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
It is difficult, but it has to be done. You
cannot let one guy be bigger than the entire group.
And of course, if he's an older player, normally it
could be just age related and.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Things have slowed down.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It could be that combined with an injury, and then
on top of that, the confidence takes a hit, regardless
of how much success you've had in the past, And
all of a sudden, I'm going to continue to play
this guy, and I know, I know the team would
be much better off if I chose this younger guy,
breaking man, bring him along not only now but forre
in the future too. So they have to be done.
(10:03):
And listen, Donald's and he can get hot, absolutely can
get hot. And of course Danton's going to get hot there.
That's all going to happen, and that's going to be
down the road. But in the meantime, if you just
continue to stay with these people and continue the slide,
why you're seeing things, I mean, it's like, listen, it's
always about seeing. I'm seeing that this ain't working right now,
and it's not going to work for a while, and
(10:23):
maybe over a course of time, sitting him down a
little extra work, different way of thinking, perspective. All of
a sudden it comes back and he looks like a
different player somebody had in the past. But your eyes,
your eyes don't lie either. Now you know you're watching
this whole thing, and you see something that is different,
and you have to make these decisions. And I've been
there absolute one hundred percent have been there with different players,
(10:47):
and it's a difficult thing to do. And what occurs
there you just the concern there is that whomever this
guy is, if he has enough cachet in the room,
and if he wants to talk among everybody else and
looks for allies and gets supported, that's when it becomes difficult.
When the leadership group within the clubhouse is strong enough
and they see a player looking for allies, you know,
(11:10):
versus the manager of the coaching staff whatever, and he
can't find any allies. Because they see the same thing
and they know this is right, the right thing to do,
then it works a lot more easily. So there's all
these little microdynamics going on all the time.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
It's just when you work with a group of people.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Tightler knit every day, highly charged, very rich and proud people.
So there's a lot going on there, man, And there's
a lot to deal with the regarding boonie.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Right now, Hey, Joe, you said something interesting. I want
to follow up there, and it's about sort of trusting
your eyes and what you see, right, it goes beyond
obviously whatever the numbers are. And sometimes it's the way
a guy handles a down period. Right. I think about
Anthony Volpi right now, the Yankee shortstop hitting under two hundred,
and there's been a lot of clamor in the New
York media about maybe he should go down. But I'll
(11:57):
tell you what I see Joe is he's never beaten
down mentally. This kid's always got a smile on his face.
You know, if he gets on base, you know, we
know how good of a base runner he is. He
doesn't let it affect his defense. Now, he's not a
premier defender, he's a good defender, but I haven't seen
it affecting his game at all.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Now.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I think there's things he has to do with his swing.
To me, he's got a lot of trouble with the
high fastball. He's got to level out his swing to
hit for a higher average. He's going to hit for
extra bases because when the ball's down he can crush it.
But I haven't seen this rookie shortstop for the Yankees
really crushed mentally. Where you need to kind of, you know,
take the pressure off him by sending him down. So
(12:37):
maybe that's what you're getting at Joe. As a manager,
I think a manager needs some leeway here to because
he should know his player is better than anybody else.
Kind of reading the body language, you know, the attitude
the player brings to the park every day. How important
is that for a manager?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, I mean, right, when a guy quits on himself,
then he gets sent down.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I mean, that's that's number one for me.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
If the guy showed he's not quit on himself, then
it really makes like you're talking.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
About right now, what am I seeing?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
What we got with the carversations like talk to your coaches,
how is he in the cage?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
How's his ground balls? You know?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Then you talk to like the support staff in the clubhouse.
Is he is he coming undone a little bit? Where's
he at? I believe in all of that stuff, But
I also believe in vulpy situation. This is an organizational thought.
I mean, this was they made up their mind before
the season began. Even if this guy goes badly, if
he doesn't quit on himself, we're going to stay with him.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I believe.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I'd have to believe that was part of the conversation originally,
and apparently I see the same indicators when I get
to watch them a little bit on TV. He has
he has a nice way about him. I think they
see that. They They probably have Derek Jeter thoughts in
the back of their head with him somewhere, and that's sticking.
And that's what happens in an organization like the Yankees
that have something to draw, and so all these all
(13:52):
these again, there's all these little micro things conspiring to
make these decisions, and it's not as obvious as it
appears to be. The guys hitting well right now, he's
chasing breaking ball. I can't hit a high fat and
I'm here to tell you he could still get sent back,
I mean regardless right now, and they're trying try and
try not to. I've had it with the Cubs, I've
had it with the Rays, have had it with the
(14:13):
even Angels in the past. So it's still there's still
the threat of being set back. But they have He's
got the longest leash you could possibly have based on
how they've ordained.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Him and what they think he's going to be.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So he's gonna get a little bit more up patient approach.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, one last thought on Volpi. I think He's so
important to them because he gives them energy. This is
a low energy team. They win games by hitting the
ball out of the park. It's an older team. They
don't take extra basis on the base pass, you know,
first to third, first to home. They're not a great
situational hitting team. You know, it's walksing home runs, guys
(14:49):
mostly in their thirties. I'm let's say it's a bad thing.
It's the Yankeemo. It works for them, but you need
somebody in there to provide energy. And that's what I
think Vulpi does. And I think without him, boy, that's
even less of a dynamic team. Hey, Joe, we're gonna
take quick break. When we get back, we're going to
talk about one of your favorite subjects, team meetings. We'll
(15:10):
be right back after this, Okay, Joe, I brought up
the subject of team meetings. I bring it up because
another team that's been scuffling, the Seattle Mariners, had one.
It was last week at Yankee Stadium, second game of
(15:32):
a three game series. Scott Service, the Seattle manager, just
did not like the way his team was playing baseball.
It wasn't so much they were losing, it was low energy,
it was poor at bats. He just thought guys were
kind of worried about their own stat line more than
trying to win games. And what he told me was, listen,
I don't like meetings, but I had to call one.
(15:54):
This was after the second game in the in the
clubhouse visiting team at Yankee Stadium, and he essentially aired
out his team, and he said, listen, you guys know
the deal at this time of year, and we're heading
up to the trading deadline. If teams don't play well,
that's when guys get moved. So if you keep this up,
the names on top of these lockers here are going
to change, and it's up to you. And they came
(16:16):
back the next day. They scored ten runs in the
first three innings, blew out the Yankees. They played better since.
But it's interesting. I think what Scott Servis saw Joe
was he's got a team that doesn't really have the
guy in the clubhouse who you would call a team leader. Right,
their best players are Julio Rodriguez and Jared Kilnick. They're
(16:36):
twenty two and twenty three years old. Right, It's tough
to ask them. They now they set the tone as
far as how they play, but to be team leaders, No,
that's a little early to ask them to be that.
So the manager, I think in this case, has to
take on some more responsibility when it comes to quote
unquote leadership. So he calls a team beating the Yankee clubhouse, Yeah,
(16:58):
they respond to the next day listen. I know for you, Joe,
they're kind of few and far between, but I think
sometimes you do have to pull the trigger.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
No, yeah, I mean I was always kind of intentional
with my meetings. I would go, of course, the first
day of spring training for pitchers and catchers, and then
first day with the whole group, first day before the
first game of the season, So I'd have three meetings
that time of the year, and then All Star break
would be my next meeting. And what I eventually learned
(17:27):
to do with that is I had the meeting before
the All Star break and not post All Star break,
because I started out going post then I liked pre
just wanted to give them something to think about before
they went away for a little bit, and then before
the first playoff game. That was always that was my method,
and I felt pretty good about it and I liked it.
And in between that if things got a little bit sideways.
(17:50):
I know you just said about the players within the group,
and I get that, but I always liked that player
meetings first. I like players having meetings first, or individual meetings. Guys,
call guys in with me to your coaching staff, and
part of that also would be I liked by monthly
meetings among the coaching staff about the players individually. Get
(18:12):
in a room, like you're in Cincinnati road game.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I like to do it on the road.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Because I don't want to take away time away at home.
So on the road, you sit down, you go every player,
pitchers in, every player, and you would break them down
briefly and what do we have to catch up on her?
What are we missing right with this guy? What's going
well with this guy? And then we would take it
to the player obviously, So I had a lot of
meetings actually, but they were different. The air out meeting
(18:39):
sometimes to me, is when you're frustrated, when you're upset,
when you're angry, and it's for you to get it
off your chest. I haven't been watching amarras enough to
know exactly what's been going on, so it's always cognizant
of that. I don't want to be about me. Ever,
It's not about me being upset or about me being embarrassed.
And he could never take it personally.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
When your team plays bad, it you do, but you shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
So all these things I would try to term of
what's going on here before I got to the point next.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
The final point with this, I.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Guess is that I had one really good one, I
guess in Kansas City.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
And I've talked about this with the Rais.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
In two thousand and eight, we were sending and we're playing,
We're good, We're I think we're in first place, we're
close to it in case right after the All Star break.
I believe that's accurate. And we're playing a sloppy game,
I mean a sloppy game, and that Carl Crawford pulls
us out of it with a double late and we win.
A couple guys that right hard first base cutoff guys
(19:36):
are being missed. Game over, we went on the road,
two important factors for me.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Winning and being on the road.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Davy Martinez, get them in that locker room as quickly.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
As you can.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I could hold it in anymore, and I just went
inside and it just went off. I mean like I'm
screaming to the point where you're crying, like I don't
know three minutes. I just they needed to know that
this doesn't work. We haven't done anything as an organization
and we're going to be in first place in August
and you're going to get like shut it down or
just throw your gloves out there. That's what got me angry,
that lack of effort, lack of caring, lack of whatever
(20:10):
that I thought I saw at that particular moment. It's
hard to denigrate a group for you're not hustling, and
I shouldn't have even said you care that you don't care.
They of course they care, but you got to we
got to get after a little.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Bit more differently because we have never done anything.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So that was the crux of the meeting in Kansas
City was to really point out, listen, boys, we're gonna
blow something really uh special right here if we don't
turn our attitudes around our approach.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Mentally to the day. So that was it. That was
my one big meeting.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And I've been asked to have meetings by different gms
and and and when I don't, I know it frustrates them,
but it's the venture anger. Uh, there's better ways to
do it. Again, if you really want to get upset
with your group, they're going good, they're not going bad,
and they're on the road, they're not in their home
clubhouse to meet.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
That's optimal.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, I see some similarities there. You had a very
young team back then, that Oaight team, and maybe they
needed it more than say an older team.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
What do you think Well also had personally on that team.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
He also had Cliff Floyd, who was an outstanding leader
on that team, Percy Cliff and Eric Kinski Ski was
doing this thing too, So we had a nice balance.
And then you have Longori, I have opt in, you
have CC was still relatively young at that point. The
Navarro was our starting catcher. Some pitchers young. David Price Shields,
(21:31):
he wasn't you know, long in the tooth by any means.
So there was a lot of youth there, but just
a nice That's why it's nice to you know, salt
and pepper, the whole thing where you do get direction
from the from the clubhouse.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
And I'm telling you it's that important.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
The guys, the players will peers will listen to the
peers more intently and again there's not this choosing of
size or finding allies to support my cause. You're not
going to find allies within the clubhouse if it's a
meeting among the players only. But if you put managers
coaches against players sometimes and the players somebody has cash here,
(22:10):
they're going to create that valley between all of this.
So again, I'm just trying to describe all this as
completely as I can. There's a lot of micro stuff
goes into this, and it's got to be well thought out.
You got to read the room. You got to read
your guys. You got to know the beat to heartbeat.
You got to know what you can say and cannot
say to whom and how honestly without compassion, an equal cruelty.
(22:32):
And sometimes you just got to know who handles well
and who does not. And sometimes it's a blunt object
and sometimes it's a velvet hammer.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
All this stuff is important.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, And one more example of managers handling scuffling stars.
Jose Abray with the Astros has had a tough season
this year, and I love what Dusty Baker did last week.
He gave him a day off the day before and
off day, and then gave him a day off on
the other side of the off day, so he gave
him three days, which, as you know, Joe, it's kind
of like a mini All Star break. It's a mental
(23:06):
break as much as anything. He had dropped a Brave
in the lineup to fifth or sixth, and when he
brought him back last weekend after his three day break,
put him back in the cleanup spot. Coincidentally or not,
A Brave responded with four hits and two games, including
a home run. So I love the way that Dusty
Baker took advantage of the off day. And Joe, you
(23:27):
know what even one day can do for a player,
but especially three days to get the head clear. Wow.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well that was Carl Crawford. C c Carl played every day.
Carl played hard. So I would look for that, exactly
what you're talking about. And I said, Ceci, we're gonna
do that. We're gonna get you two days off. We're
going to pick the day you're gonna get the day
off before the day off or the day off after
the day off. And sometimes I have done the three
spot too, but I would pick and choose a day
(23:54):
before a day after based on the other team's pitcher.
Like it was a tough left hand of the day after.
Then give him the second day of the day after,
not the day before, So you try to match it
up as well as you possible. We can take advantage
of the schedule. You look for rest, but within the
schedule based on matchups and stuff. That's I always wanted
a ten day planner in advance. I wanted ten days
from the that's what I want from the analytical staff.
(24:15):
Give me ten days in advance. Whose picture of the
other team and how do our dudes match up and
among the people that need a rest, when would be
the optimal moment in your estimation to give.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Him that rest?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And then I would try to match it up with
what I was thinking. So that to me is analytically
well designed. And that's a really benefit of that where
the guys can give you that kind of information so
far in advance that you can make a better informed decisions.
So all that is part of making your lineup rest.
And I'm a big advocate of breast as you know.
(24:46):
And it's perfect because I saw a braiw but that
was in La that he was.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Playing right after the break.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I think, right, that's right, And he looked he looked
very frisky, no question.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, all right, we've got to talk about talk about
managers dealing with disappointments. The biggest disappointment of this twenty
twenty three season is the New York Mets. You know,
what is a three hundred and sixty million dollars payroll,
eight games under five hundred. They have not won a
series the entire month, and it's really interesting to watch
the team, almost like in quicksand the more they try,
(25:16):
the worse off it gets. And the way the manager
Buck Showalter handles it. Now, he took a lot of
grief for the game on Sunday against Philadelphia, where he
lost the lead in the eighth inning without using his
best pitchers. He had David robertson his closer, who had
thrown just thirteen pitches the day before, had pitched only
twice in the previous eleven days, and Buck was saving
(25:38):
him for the ninth inning. Of course, there never was
a ninth inning because Philadelphia rallied in the eighth against
some of the lower pieces or lesser pieces, and Bucks bullpen.
That's the way it's gone for the New York Mets,
you know. And then you have a game, give the
ball to Justin Verlander. The next game at home and
you lose to Milwaukee two to one. Bullpen Drew Smith
(25:59):
comes in gives up a home run after he was suspended,
and by the way, Bucks bullpen was short game on
Sunday because Drew Smith was serving his ten year suspension
for using too much sticky stuff on his hand. You know,
my question, Joe, for you is not so much about
individual moves, but sometimes as a manager, did you take
on some of the heat for your players? In other words,
(26:21):
it's almost like a diversion when guys are struggling to
try and hard the results are not good, that some
of the stories coming out of the team would come
out of the manager's office rather than falling on the players.
Any any any way, that that was across your raider
when you had teams that were scuffling.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
First order of business, first job of the managers, protect
your brood.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Uh Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna extend in front of everybody.
You're gonna explain things off to take the heat off
of your players. You're always going to do that, and
you're going to accept responsibility and.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
You are going to take the heat that's what you're
there for.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
But I always stopped. My first thing to do is
to protect the brood. It's no different than your family,
texture group A, B C D number one, number two, three,
four five, that's what that's what the manager does. And
I don't know that that's spoken about enough. And I
just saw a little clip with Buck and that's exactly
what he was doing. I know was that game in
question right there, but the question posed to him, what
(27:21):
he did well, like he always does, is he's protecting
his group. And the thing I love about what Buck's
doing right now, how consistent he's remained in his demeanor
and his response. Buck is going to think it all
the way through. He's not going to be over emotional,
so don't expect him to be overemotional.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
That's not who he is.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
He's very consistent in his approaching. To me, that equals discipline.
And I love that the Mets aren't playing well because
they lost. They lose their closer during the WBC A
number one, and they're not playing well because there's got
any poor performance and that's not his fault.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, I will say this, Joe. I think they're at
the point of their season, especially now with this balance
schedule where you don't play many games against the teams
in your division like Philadelphia, you have fewer head to heads, Right,
you're this far underwater. Yeah, every game to me becomes
more and more urgent at this time of year, no denying.
I mean there's some points you got to start trying
(28:19):
to win the game outside of what your normal path
to victory is, because I don't want to say the
Mets are running out of time, but maybe running out
of opportunities.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Well, first of all, regarding that situation without Robertson, who
is the batting order for the Phillies in the eighth?
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I would just be curious.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Did he have him lined up for the ninth because
there was a stronger batting order coming up in the
night than he thought this guy could handle the eighth.
That's one thing. Number two, the unavailability of pitchers always,
to me is intriguing based on you know, the the
edicts from upstairs who's available and who's not available that night.
And he's not going to again, he's going to protect
the front office or the analytical department too, So I
don't know. I mean he may have made choices there
(28:56):
based on what he was told he was able to
use and not able to use that day. See, these
are the things that you know, fans and writers don't
know because we're not going to spill the beans on that.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
You're not going to do that.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You're just going to do the organization or whatever, and
you're going to not use robertson maybe like this situation
in eighth because two three fourths coming up in the
ninth potentially something like that.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, he did go with the eighth inning. You did
have Schwarber, Turner, Harper coming up, so they big bets
were coming up to the eighth. You make a good point, though, Joe,
and I saw this in the Verlander loss. Well, he
didn't get the loss. Drew Smith got the loss. You know,
Verlander came out after five innings with one hundred pitches, right,
and I know there's probably some fans thinking, well, leave
(29:41):
him in. He's gone up to one hundred and seventeen
this year. Why is he coming out after five? But
if you watch that game, and this is interesting with
the pitch timer, Joe, the Mets were going down one, two,
three against Colin Ray and Verlander had very little time
before he was literally back on the mound. Sure, so
you had that, you had the Brewers extending at bets,
(30:02):
you had Verlander covering first base a couple of times,
and then you had Verlander is lined up to make
his next start on the fifth day. Now, normal rest
in today's game is six so that's almost short. Rest
is only four days of rest, So Buck has to
think about the next time Verlander is going to get
the ball. So those are so many things that came
(30:22):
into play rather than just looking at this game at
a vacuum and saying, well, he went one to seventeen earlier,
he can go one to seventeen. Leave him in Well,
if you watch the game, the pitch timer, the length
of the abats, the next time he's going out onto
the mound. Man, there were a lot of factors that
factored in there, including Verlander's age. And he said it
himself that the time in between and some of these
(30:44):
fast innings now under the pitch timer is something that
all pitchers, but especially older ones, are getting used to.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
No, the interconnectivity of the game, that's what you're just describing.
You're absolutely right, and that if you as a manager
after a game, sit and give all those different thoughts
or reasons. It sounds like you're making excuses where you've
been asked a question and then you want to really
like if you want to get really involved, he I'm
going to tell you everything I was thinking about in
that moment, but it never comes across. Well, so you
(31:11):
do the cliff notes. The game is interconnected nightly, you're
making decisions tonight based on tomorrow because you have to.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
You have to space this.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Out, and that's why you have to have a deep
roster that other people that are able to perform, pick
other people up when people need rest, and that's how
you start winning games or create longer winning streaks when
you have that kind of interconnected depth, and if you
don't have it, it's almost impossible to do so again as.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
A manager, I'm not going to give you all that
only because it sounds like I'm making excuses.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
But those are all the different thoughts that go into
making decisions.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well, said Joe, You've been there before and you've handled
it well, so those words certainly resonate. Hey, we're going
to take a quick break. When we come back. I
said I needed some help. Some recommendations music recommendations from Joe.
We'll get into that next Welcome back to the Book
(32:12):
of Joe podcast. By the way, Joe, we're talking about
players scuffling, and we've talked about this before, but incredibly
is still happening. Mike Trout just cannot get going. His
lugging percentages down to four eighty. That's good for a
lot of players, but it's a career low for him.
After hitting two hundred in May against fastballs, He's hitting
(32:34):
two hundred again against fastballs in June and seeing more
fastballs than anybody but Miles Straw. I don't know whether
you've got a chance to watch much of Mike lately,
but man, Joe, I thought by now he figured something out.
And I keep waiting for that surge. You know it's coming,
but it hasn't happened yet. It's been very strange to see.
(32:55):
I'm sure it is for you.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, I'm watching it.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
And I saw him hit a home right against Cranky
ninety one down and in right into the slot of
his swing.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah, he's he is.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
He's kind of tunneled or channeled into where the swing
path is right now.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
I'm watching.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
I don't watch I have seen them a lot, but
I've seen them a bit, and he will make the adjustment.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
But that's and you've talked about Stanton, and you've talked about.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
There's other guys.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I mean, I know that the last year or two
there whatever, or the last several years when we're beating
somebody with the fastball, and I mean, just it could
be like but it's perceived to be kind of pedestrian
fastball maybe ninety three and ninety four, But nevertheless, it's
the straight ball, backspin and force force seemers. It gets
(33:45):
on here. If there's that little bit of right to
it at all, it plays up. It plays up even
to a bigger number than that. Why do something differently,
I think because this is another analytical component. When you
have this kind of data to support results, you'll stay
with it. So I mean, if you're a pitching you're
gonna say I'm not gonna throw a three fastballs in
a row.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
There's no way to do that.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
But no, before the game, somebody sits you down and says, listen,
do this. If you're going to go break the ball,
make sure it's a strike ball, make sure it's a
chase pitch, but do not go ball, strike, break the
ball as an example, and we're going to keep doing
this until he shows otherwise, so that that is data driven.
Back in the day, you had an advanced scout. He'd
(34:27):
sit in the stands right and he would watch just
that team. He would scout that team that you're going
to play next and send reports based on that. So
the pitchers that the age would be playing would be
reported upon, and how we pitched, and the pitchers then
up their pitchers of course, with our hitters limited limited numbers,
so you're not going to can ever convince yourself to
(34:48):
do that. Mattie Keo wanted us to throw front door
breaking balls to Edgar Martinez in the nineties, which was
not a pitch. Back then, it was like, what are
you talking about. That's a hanging slider.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So all this.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Stuff, with the data and the and the and the
really stockpile of information, it permits or provides greater confidence
in regard to the game planning that you're putting out there.
So right now, everybody that they're playing the Angels, they're
just saying the same thing until he shows us this,
we're doing this, and you don't have to change up
(35:19):
or try different things you're fifteen years ago that wouldn't
have happened.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
It's happening now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
You know, you made a good point about those those
fastballs with ride. We know velocity keeps going up. Back
in twenty seventeen wasn't really that long ago when Stanton
was the MVP. You know, the average fastball has got
up a mile per hour since then, and batting average
against fastballs has gone down eleven points. And that's not
(35:45):
that long ago. So you know, guys in their thirties,
the Donaldson's, the Stanton's, the trouts, they're seeing more velocity
from more pitchers. By the way, in twenty seventeen, there
were only forty pitchers who touched one hundred miles an hour.
We're halfway through the season and already have had forty
four pitchers hit one hundred miles an hour.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
I mean, it's not that long ago, but Joe, I'm
looking at a different world when it comes to pure
stuff on the mound in today's game.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And also consider the techniques being taught with the hitters. Again, analytically,
we want the balls in the stands, we want homers,
We want you to go for the home run even
with two strikes. No adjustments here, keep taking that hack.
We want the homer. We don't need that blooper to
right field. We don't want you to accept your walk right.
We just want you to drive the ball to the ballpark,
(36:37):
swing up a launch angle, et cetera. So when you
combine launch angle with added velocity, whoah, that is devastating. Now,
when I watched Dan, I don't necessarily see launch angle.
He looks like he really wants to flatten it out
a bit, but that really opens up a big hole
underneath them at his back foot, especially by the way
he stands. So it's a combination of yes, added velocity,
(37:01):
which I was watching Hicks with Say Louis when I
a couple years ago.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
The kid could throw a strike.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Now now he's thrown two seam strikes at one hundred
and two three miles an hour. Sink, they got no chance.
The ball's coming back eight inches for a strike on
the outside corner, you have no chance on that. They're
just trying to basically foul off and hopefully get to
another pitch. So combination of velocity with the approach and teaching,
I think obviously has led to a great number of strikeouts.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
All right, let's talk about barbecues and music. Uh you
got I'm sure you got some powerful outdoor speakers as well.
I know you love them in your vehicles that you drive,
so true. Yeah, you got a bunch of people over.
We got the grill fired up. We need some good
tunes in the background. Where should I go?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Well, you know, if you're we're talking, it's let me
go for the west coast first. Let's go west to east.
The beach boys. I mean, you know, regardless whether it's
on a beach or just in the summer situation, endless summer,
you would want to have the beach boys blaring out
during the summer. I mean good vibrations simply. And I'm
going to have my first party at the pat here
(38:06):
as soon. The railings almost put up on the deck
and I got the k G curator coming on Thursday.
The grill is ready to go. I got heating elements.
If he gets cool, the view of spectacular beach boys.
Good vibrations. Man, It's always starts with good vibrations for me,
and I'm definitely I'm sticking to it. And then again
you start moving back east like you know, the summertime stuff.
(38:30):
How about just the good old Love and Spoonful, you know, yeah,
I that to me has got the summer kind of
lilt to it. And yes, you're right. The Sono speakers
interconnected through this whole pad booms everywhere. I keep them
up to seventy seventy five, so the people on the
golfers on the thirty can hear my music every time
(38:51):
they go to hit their t shots.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
But yeah, I'm going.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Probably unsuspecting choices. But the beach boys to Love and Spoonful, man,
to me, that equal summer bashing all those dudes. And
I love Nashville Cats, I mean just stupid stuff.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I mean, it just.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Got that little funky summary beat for me that I love.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I went to Spotify for a since sometimes it's hit
and miss for a barbecue mix, right, okay, and I
heard a Billy Joel song okay, and then I have
not heard for years, and I was like, wow, that
brought me back summer Highland falls okay now, and the
early Billy Joel is just amazing, right right. I wasn't
(39:34):
so much into his pop stuff, you know. It seemed
like the higher he got on the charts the less.
I kind of liked this stuff but early on, and
obviously Piano Man is just an incredible album. But I'm
going Billy Joel East Coast Pick.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Okay, okay, I listened Step Brothers, didn't. They went into
the eighties Billy Joel. They liked early Billy Joe too.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
But I get it, un totally get it.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
The Catalina Wine Mixer, that group that was on the
stage there, I understand.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I understand where you're coming from.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
By the way you dropped the Keggerator on us. I
gotta know more. Yeah, I tell me more, please.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Yeah, we got well the back the backyard is so cool.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
I got a two stall ca graator, so I got
a double tap on one side, a fridge on the other,
an area for prep for food right next to the grill.
So the cake Greator will be on Thursday, and we're
gonna go half Corona premiere, and we're trying to figure
out the other half whether it's going to be just
Yangling or Yangling Flight, you know, being the fact that
we're over thirty five forty years of age, we prefer
(40:33):
the light beer, so maybe half. I'm a big Corona guy.
Eddie better whenever upsit with Eddie. I love I love
our coronas we love our but the premiere for me
is solid. I like the solid Corona premiere on one side,
Yangling or Yangling flight on the other. Because I wanted
some of the local stuff out of Potsville.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yeah, you gotta stay local, I mean, yeah, throwing a
couple of rocks too, Yeah, talking of rocks.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah, no, Listen, that was the That was the drink
of choice at Lafayette and any cager that we had
around here back in the day was always the rock.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
All right. So what's going on the grill? What's the
food choice on the grill?
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Yeah, well, there's a couple of things. I've learned how
to rot tissery. I have rot tisrie now and I've
done ribs on rotisserie. And the big thing about the
ribs on rotissri could have mustard dry rub on it,
and then what I like to do as it's rotating, obviously,
sprits it with orange juice. I get a bottle, spritz
(41:30):
it with orange juice every fifteen minutes. Hit it up,
and you want to get those ribs nice and hot
before you take them off. They're like almost one hundred
and ninety degrees or so. And that's when you do
take them off and put a little dipping sauce. Don't
add any sauce, just put the sauce on the side.
The dipping sauce is great. And then right down the street,
Frankie Rat is my guy down here at the pro shop.
(41:51):
We order some I order steaks from the purveyor there
and we cut them up and bring them over like
two inch stick New York strippers, and I like to
start those with limon fused olive oil and then just
got to go with Montreal seasoning or something like that.
But I get the internal temperature up to like one
six take them off, like to get them off ready
to eat pre less than one forty. And these suckers
(42:14):
are just so so good. So that's primarily you're going
to see ribs and gro tistrie ribs chicken, of course,
the burgers and dogs, et cetera. But I'm really into
limeon fused olive oil right now and splitching ribs with
orange juice.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah to me, You know you mentioned dogs and burgers
yet traditional I actually love me a good barbecued chicken sandwich.
Maybe a little bacon on there, fresh tomato, lettuce. The
bun is absolutely important. But I go there. But my
wife does an incredible pizza on the outdoor grill. She's
(42:49):
got one of those stones, yes, and it gets super
hot and you can get it done in like four minutes.
You're talking like six hundred seven hundred degrees in there,
and it comes out nice and crispy. I like the
the old school kind of crispy, almost like a flatbread type.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
I do that too.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
We have Snaps Pizza here in town and a bakery
and you could buy the pre formed shells and they
give you a kit with sauce in the and the cheese.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
But again on the crust of dough.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
I started out with limon fused olive oil. Then the
big thing for me is I like salty, So I
got green olives and capers on my pizzas.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
And then I take the.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Sausage and the pepperoni, and I use a grater and
grate it down like the crumby, like fine crumbs of
sausage and pepperoni, and a little fry on that, and
then throw that on the top there too, and then
dump all different kinds of cheeses on it. You're right,
about four minutes at the most. I put it on
the stone on a piece of parchment paper, and it's
been a pretty big hit.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
And by the way, I have had your pizza.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
That's right, you have Snaps.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Snaps has not just great dough. They got great sauce too.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
That's one hundred percent plus. We also have our Mad
Pizza Sauce. We do sell that. It's for the foundation.
We have Mad Pizza Sauce, pasta sauce, and Madden Chowchow.
My dad's on the pizza sauce, my grandparents Taliant are
on the pasta sauce, and my mom Beanie is on
the chowchow, which is a really big hit. It's great
(44:17):
with even just a hot dog, meat loaf, fried meatballs.
The child child's outstanding. If you're really interested, we get
you more information. But all the proceeds for that go
to the Respect ninety Foundation.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Very cool. It's a big day on the calendar. Fourth
of July weekend coming up. It's a big day. And
you know, as far as the summer schedule, but even
the baseball schedule, I always felt like, you know, those
teams traditionally in first place, on the fourth of July.
They're for real and it's almost like your spot to
lose at that point of the season.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
I mean, you've you figured it out a little bit.
You've got that kind of that thing going on in
the clubhouse. Everybody's starting to believe right now, we're like
Pittsburgh's descending a bit, Cincinnati is ascending right now, Baltimore's
keeping their spot among the other groups right now. And
then you see, like you're talking about the Yankees, where's
that energy going to come from to get them over
(45:05):
the top?
Speaker 3 (45:06):
I understand that completely.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
You know, the Blue Jays still want to vacillate right
during the middle, not knowing exactly where they want to go.
And of course I don't know how the Dodgers keep
doing it, but they do. Andrew does such a wonderful
job out there.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
And even the.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Angels, I mean, like the Angels are hanging in there
really well. I like Griff and Kenny making his comeback.
I love that Griff is pitching as well as he is,
and David Fletcher's back up, so you know, keeping track
of all this stuff is it is really interesting right now.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, it's a great time a summer, great time of year.
So Joey, you got something to take us out here
as we head into a big weekend.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Everything we've been talking about. Brother again, mister Twain, May
you always keep your youth. You know, everybody wants to
be grown ups, everybody you just we just.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
We want to become old.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
And we got to dress a certain way and you
got to cut your hair and you know, wear different
kind of clothes.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
May you always keep your youth.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
It's it's probably the most important I think you could
possibly do.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
The important words to remember. Great job, Joe. We'll see
you next time on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
You tube brother. Thanks for everything man see it by.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hi there, it's Tom Verducci with Joe Madden and it's
time for the latest episode of the Book of Joe Podcast.
Hey Joe, We're about halfway through the baseball season and
(00:24):
we've got the fourth of July weekend coming up. A
lot going on here. I can't believe we've got here already.
This season is flying by.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It does what happens. And I've talked about this before.
Spring training goes so slowly, that's like everybody. I love it,
but it's a slow dance. And then once the season games,
Wimena man, it just flies you. Jeff Ziggler, our traveling
secretary with the Rays, used to rip off a page
off that little pocket schedule after every month, and before
you know it's the end of the year. It just
(00:52):
you got to fasten the seat belts, get ready to go.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
But it gets quicker and quicker right now.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, later on I want to ask you about I
need some recommendations from you about what kind of tunes
I should be playing for my Best Cared Barbecue on
the fourth of July. That's really important stuff we're going
to get into. But you mentioned about the arc of
the season here, and obviously the teams can no longer
say it's a bad start or it's early. And in fact,
I look around baseball in the last couple of weeks here, Joe,
(01:20):
and you can see where the tensions starting to rise
on certain teams and managers. And I'm going to ask
you about when that happens, how a manager deals with it.
I call it when good players and good teams go bad.
And you know as well as I do, teams will
look to the manager to how that manager responds in
those scenarios. And there have been a certain number of
(01:43):
scenarios in the last week or so that I want
you to run by you, And I want to start
with Wander Franco and the Tampa Bay Rays. Now, they've
been playing great, there's no problem there. They got out
of the gates super fast. They really haven't taken their
foot off the pedal. But Kevin Cash had to sit
wander Franco for a couple of days. Basically, if I
(02:03):
can Parafe raised what Cash said conduct detrimental to his teammates,
Basically getting frustrated over certain things not going his way
and letting his behavior affect other players on the team,
whether it was temper tantrums or getting in somebody's face
not running something out. Joe That told me, you correct
(02:24):
me if I'm wrong here, that this was an issue
going on for a while. You know, obviously Kevin Cash
is not going to respond like that to a one
off incident. How bad do you think would have to
be for a manager, especially in today's game, to level
discipline so publicly for one of the star players.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Everything is so publicly. Yeah, I you're right, it had
to have been going on for a while. I actually
addressed this yesterday on MLB Network, And for me, what
we're permitting this to happen is my take on it.
Let me see if I could explain what I'm what
I mean, excuse me. I believe, first of all, the
manager has to be empowered for day one to met
(03:05):
out this kind of a discipline disciplinary action in conjunction
with this coaching staff and the leadership with this group.
I think sometimes the younger player that gets somewhat protected
by front offices is able to get away with things
to a certain level because it's almost like parenting. He
will get in between the front office or people whatever
higher ups, or if we want to call him and
(03:27):
the field staff and try to play one against the
other in order to curry favor because you know he's
young and he's talented.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I really think that if you just permit, you just
permit the manager to really take charge of this from
the beginning and the leadership group within the team, that
will not happen. We're just we're like, we're condoning, we're advocating.
We want them to flip the ball up in the
ear and then throw the ball the first base. We
want them to be flamboyant in the game because it's
perceived that that's what's going to bring more young people
(03:57):
to our game.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
So I think it's interconnected.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It's interconnected, and it's happen in another situations, other teams,
and it's going to continue to happen unless the growing
ups in a room take charge. That's how I describe it. Yeah, listen,
you know me and everybody it's been wrong.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I love having a good time. We celebrate every win.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
We celebrate everyone with a disco ball and a laser show.
And you know, used to be like beer throwing all
over everybody, but now it's water. But we celebrate, we
celebrate achievement, and we always do. We have fun every
day batting practice. I've actually had breakfast served on the
field part of playoff games.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
That's fun.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
But to take the game and kind of make it
more frivolous, Listen, this is not rocket science.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
But we're addressing situations on the field that should be
addressed early on, earlier on through. We don't do this here.
That's not how we're going to play here. That's inappropriate,
that's unacceptable here. Yeah, play hard, have fun, absolutely, play
with your hair on fire. But when you get to
the points where it's detrimental to the team and everybody
(05:00):
else is feeling.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It, you got to step in and do something.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So I'm just saying, empower your coaches to do this
up front, and your manager first of all in the
leadership group, and I think you'll be able to avert
some of this.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah. I love what you said there about having fun.
That everything you described there, Joe, was in the concept
of team right, And I think we're looking at something
if you want to look even really bigger, it's something
going on culturally, and we see in baseball it has
become more about me than team. It's look at me,
And you can still have the look at me within
(05:32):
a team concept when your ultimate motivation is to win
the game and to be a good teammate. There's nothing
wrong with showing some swag and having some fun, getting
that big hit, celebrating with your teammates. But when you
kind of bring that showcase baseball mentality, you know, I
have to stand out. I have to you know, everything
starts with I. I think that's where you get in trouble.
(05:53):
And I think for today's manager, Joe, I mean, that
is an uphill climb to try to preach, you know,
the true team concept when it's not being done on
the climb up to get to the major leagues.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Perfect, perfect point.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I mean the Showcase one hundred percent in agreement with that.
I've seen that probably right around twenty ten, between twenty
ten and twenty fifteen, the ascension of the showcase player,
the guy that goes out and gets on a travel
team and plays everywhere but his home city. Like Hazelton
(06:28):
beating West Hazleton it is important anymore. Now Hazelton's got
to beat Lansdale or Pennsbury or something down the road.
By Philadelphia. You just can't win here. You have to
get out and you have to travel, and when you
do that, you're not winning for the sake of winning
for the good old Mountaineers. You're trying to be best
in show. You're trying to be the best player there
(06:50):
so that you get the most notoriety and potentially the
most scholarship offers or the highest draft ranking. And that's
what these people are paying for. Parents are paying for
this stuff, and it happens. Of course, it happens to
the really talented who would have been in that situation
regardless had the money been paid or not, as long
as they've been playing somewhere.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
So where where again? I agree? I mean, listen, I'm
all fun. I'm not the no fund league. I'm the
all fund league. But I don't I can't advocate that.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I think that's it's working against you. Are injuring that
the team concept. You are promoting individuality.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Branding.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
God, I hate when I hear somebody's working on their brand.
I just that makes me cringe a little bit. So
all of this stuff is interconnected. I think one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Right, I'm with you on that brand word as well,
that brand is something that's inorganic. It's something that's created
you as a human being. Have you know inorganic personality?
Let that show. By the way, I liked what Kevin
Cash did. I thought he was upfront, transparent. I mean, listen,
you're going to have to explain yourself when your star
shortstop is not in the lineup for a couple of days.
(07:57):
So it's not like he could gloss over it. But
you tell he had rehearsed what he wanted to say.
He really didn't personally lies that. He just talked in
general about what wonder behavior where it needed help. So
good on Kevin Cash. I like the fact that he
did step up and he took accountability there. And let's
talk about Aaron Boone. With the Yankees. There was a manager,
(08:17):
it might have been Tony Larus, I'm not sure who
it was who once said, don't let us star fall
on you managing star players, established players who are having
a tough time. Man, Joe, that's got to be tough
for a manager. And I look at the Yankees right
now with Aaron Judge out of the lineup, and some
of Aaron Boone's stars simply are not performing well. You
(08:39):
have John Carlos Stanton who is hitting sixty eight against
fastballs this month, continually beaten by fastballs, and the same
is really happening with Josh Donaldson. He's hitting one twenty
one against fastballs, including sixty seven when it's ninety five
and above. These are star players who are just their
timing just is not there. They're getting beat So you know,
(09:02):
Aaron Boone has some other options. He's got a deep
roster and he did not have Donaldson in the lineup
for a couple of days and that required a couple
of meetings with Josh Dollinson, who let it be known
he wasn't happy about it. I don't know if you've
had specific cases like that, Joe, but that's got to
be really, really difficult when you've got the established player
(09:22):
who seems to have urged your trust. But there comes
a point where you've just got to set the player
down and explain it to him why you're doing it.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Been there.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
It is difficult, but it has to be done. You
cannot let one guy be bigger than the entire group.
And of course, if he's an older player, normally it
could be just age related and.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Things have slowed down.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It could be that combined with an injury, and then
on top of that, the confidence takes a hit, regardless
of how much success you've had in the past, And
all of a sudden, I'm going to continue to play
this guy, and I know, I know the team would
be much better off if I chose this younger guy,
breaking man, bring him along not only now but forre
in the future too. So they have to be done.
(10:03):
And listen, Donald's and he can get hot, absolutely can
get hot. And of course Danton's going to get hot there.
That's all going to happen, and that's going to be
down the road. But in the meantime, if you just
continue to stay with these people and continue the slide,
why you're seeing things, I mean, it's like, listen, it's
always about seeing. I'm seeing that this ain't working right now,
and it's not going to work for a while, and
(10:23):
maybe over a course of time, sitting him down a
little extra work, different way of thinking, perspective. All of
a sudden it comes back and he looks like a
different player somebody had in the past. But your eyes,
your eyes don't lie either. Now you know you're watching
this whole thing, and you see something that is different,
and you have to make these decisions. And I've been
there absolute one hundred percent have been there with different players,
(10:47):
and it's a difficult thing to do. And what occurs
there you just the concern there is that whomever this
guy is, if he has enough cachet in the room,
and if he wants to talk among everybody else and
looks for allies and gets supported, that's when it becomes difficult.
When the leadership group within the clubhouse is strong enough
and they see a player looking for allies, you know,
(11:10):
versus the manager of the coaching staff whatever, and he
can't find any allies. Because they see the same thing
and they know this is right, the right thing to do,
then it works a lot more easily. So there's all
these little microdynamics going on all the time.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
It's just when you work with a group of people.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Tightler knit every day, highly charged, very rich and proud people.
So there's a lot going on there, man, And there's
a lot to deal with the regarding boonie.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Right now, Hey, Joe, you said something interesting. I want
to follow up there, and it's about sort of trusting
your eyes and what you see, right, it goes beyond
obviously whatever the numbers are. And sometimes it's the way
a guy handles a down period. Right. I think about
Anthony Volpi right now, the Yankee shortstop hitting under two hundred,
and there's been a lot of clamor in the New
York media about maybe he should go down. But I'll
(11:57):
tell you what I see Joe is he's never beaten
down mentally. This kid's always got a smile on his face.
You know, if he gets on base, you know, we
know how good of a base runner he is. He
doesn't let it affect his defense. Now, he's not a
premier defender, he's a good defender, but I haven't seen
it affecting his game at all.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Now.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I think there's things he has to do with his swing.
To me, he's got a lot of trouble with the
high fastball. He's got to level out his swing to
hit for a higher average. He's going to hit for
extra bases because when the ball's down he can crush it.
But I haven't seen this rookie shortstop for the Yankees
really crushed mentally. Where you need to kind of, you know,
take the pressure off him by sending him down. So
(12:37):
maybe that's what you're getting at Joe. As a manager,
I think a manager needs some leeway here to because
he should know his player is better than anybody else.
Kind of reading the body language, you know, the attitude
the player brings to the park every day. How important
is that for a manager?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, I mean, right, when a guy quits on himself,
then he gets sent down.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I mean, that's that's number one for me.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
If the guy showed he's not quit on himself, then
it really makes like you're talking.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
About right now, what am I seeing?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
What we got with the carversations like talk to your coaches,
how is he in the cage?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
How's his ground balls? You know?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Then you talk to like the support staff in the clubhouse.
Is he is he coming undone a little bit? Where's
he at? I believe in all of that stuff, But
I also believe in vulpy situation. This is an organizational thought.
I mean, this was they made up their mind before
the season began. Even if this guy goes badly, if
he doesn't quit on himself, we're going to stay with him.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I believe.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I'd have to believe that was part of the conversation originally,
and apparently I see the same indicators when I get
to watch them a little bit on TV. He has
he has a nice way about him. I think they
see that. They They probably have Derek Jeter thoughts in
the back of their head with him somewhere, and that's sticking.
And that's what happens in an organization like the Yankees
that have something to draw, and so all these all
(13:52):
these again, there's all these little micro things conspiring to
make these decisions, and it's not as obvious as it
appears to be. The guys hitting well right now, he's
chasing breaking ball. I can't hit a high fat and
I'm here to tell you he could still get sent back,
I mean regardless right now, and they're trying try and
try not to. I've had it with the Cubs, I've
had it with the Rays, have had it with the
(14:13):
even Angels in the past. So it's still there's still
the threat of being set back. But they have He's
got the longest leash you could possibly have based on
how they've ordained.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Him and what they think he's going to be.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So he's gonna get a little bit more up patient approach.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, one last thought on Volpi. I think He's so
important to them because he gives them energy. This is
a low energy team. They win games by hitting the
ball out of the park. It's an older team. They
don't take extra basis on the base pass, you know,
first to third, first to home. They're not a great
situational hitting team. You know, it's walksing home runs, guys
(14:49):
mostly in their thirties. I'm let's say it's a bad thing.
It's the Yankeemo. It works for them, but you need
somebody in there to provide energy. And that's what I
think Vulpi does. And I think without him, boy, that's
even less of a dynamic team. Hey, Joe, we're gonna
take quick break. When we get back, we're going to
talk about one of your favorite subjects, team meetings. We'll
(15:10):
be right back after this, Okay, Joe, I brought up
the subject of team meetings. I bring it up because
another team that's been scuffling, the Seattle Mariners, had one.
It was last week at Yankee Stadium, second game of
(15:32):
a three game series. Scott Service, the Seattle manager, just
did not like the way his team was playing baseball.
It wasn't so much they were losing, it was low energy,
it was poor at bats. He just thought guys were
kind of worried about their own stat line more than
trying to win games. And what he told me was, listen,
I don't like meetings, but I had to call one.
(15:54):
This was after the second game in the in the
clubhouse visiting team at Yankee Stadium, and he essentially aired
out his team, and he said, listen, you guys know
the deal at this time of year, and we're heading
up to the trading deadline. If teams don't play well,
that's when guys get moved. So if you keep this up,
the names on top of these lockers here are going
to change, and it's up to you. And they came
(16:16):
back the next day. They scored ten runs in the
first three innings, blew out the Yankees. They played better since.
But it's interesting. I think what Scott Servis saw Joe
was he's got a team that doesn't really have the
guy in the clubhouse who you would call a team leader. Right,
their best players are Julio Rodriguez and Jared Kilnick. They're
(16:36):
twenty two and twenty three years old. Right, It's tough
to ask them. They now they set the tone as
far as how they play, but to be team leaders, No,
that's a little early to ask them to be that.
So the manager, I think in this case, has to
take on some more responsibility when it comes to quote
unquote leadership. So he calls a team beating the Yankee clubhouse, Yeah,
(16:58):
they respond to the next day listen. I know for you, Joe,
they're kind of few and far between, but I think
sometimes you do have to pull the trigger.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
No, yeah, I mean I was always kind of intentional
with my meetings. I would go, of course, the first
day of spring training for pitchers and catchers, and then
first day with the whole group, first day before the
first game of the season, So I'd have three meetings
that time of the year, and then All Star break
would be my next meeting. And what I eventually learned
(17:27):
to do with that is I had the meeting before
the All Star break and not post All Star break,
because I started out going post then I liked pre
just wanted to give them something to think about before
they went away for a little bit, and then before
the first playoff game. That was always that was my method,
and I felt pretty good about it and I liked it.
And in between that if things got a little bit sideways.
(17:50):
I know you just said about the players within the group,
and I get that, but I always liked that player
meetings first. I like players having meetings first, or individual meetings. Guys,
call guys in with me to your coaching staff, and
part of that also would be I liked by monthly
meetings among the coaching staff about the players individually. Get
(18:12):
in a room, like you're in Cincinnati road game.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I like to do it on the road.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Because I don't want to take away time away at home.
So on the road, you sit down, you go every player,
pitchers in, every player, and you would break them down
briefly and what do we have to catch up on her?
What are we missing right with this guy? What's going
well with this guy? And then we would take it
to the player obviously, So I had a lot of
meetings actually, but they were different. The air out meeting
(18:39):
sometimes to me, is when you're frustrated, when you're upset,
when you're angry, and it's for you to get it
off your chest. I haven't been watching amarras enough to
know exactly what's been going on, so it's always cognizant
of that. I don't want to be about me. Ever,
It's not about me being upset or about me being embarrassed.
And he could never take it personally.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
When your team plays bad, it you do, but you shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
So all these things I would try to term of
what's going on here before I got to the point next.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
The final point with this, I.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Guess is that I had one really good one, I
guess in Kansas City.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
And I've talked about this with the Rais.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
In two thousand and eight, we were sending and we're playing,
We're good, We're I think we're in first place, we're
close to it in case right after the All Star break.
I believe that's accurate. And we're playing a sloppy game,
I mean a sloppy game, and that Carl Crawford pulls
us out of it with a double late and we win.
A couple guys that right hard first base cutoff guys
(19:36):
are being missed. Game over, we went on the road,
two important factors for me.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Winning and being on the road.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Davy Martinez, get them in that locker room as quickly.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
As you can.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I could hold it in anymore, and I just went
inside and it just went off. I mean like I'm
screaming to the point where you're crying, like I don't
know three minutes. I just they needed to know that
this doesn't work. We haven't done anything as an organization
and we're going to be in first place in August
and you're going to get like shut it down or
just throw your gloves out there. That's what got me angry,
that lack of effort, lack of caring, lack of whatever
(20:10):
that I thought I saw at that particular moment. It's
hard to denigrate a group for you're not hustling, and
I shouldn't have even said you care that you don't care.
They of course they care, but you got to we
got to get after a little.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Bit more differently because we have never done anything.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So that was the crux of the meeting in Kansas
City was to really point out, listen, boys, we're gonna
blow something really uh special right here if we don't
turn our attitudes around our approach.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Mentally to the day. So that was it. That was
my one big meeting.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And I've been asked to have meetings by different gms
and and and when I don't, I know it frustrates them,
but it's the venture anger. Uh, there's better ways to
do it. Again, if you really want to get upset
with your group, they're going good, they're not going bad,
and they're on the road, they're not in their home
clubhouse to meet.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
That's optimal.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, I see some similarities there. You had a very
young team back then, that Oaight team, and maybe they
needed it more than say an older team.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
What do you think Well also had personally on that team.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
He also had Cliff Floyd, who was an outstanding leader
on that team, Percy Cliff and Eric Kinski Ski was
doing this thing too, So we had a nice balance.
And then you have Longori, I have opt in, you
have CC was still relatively young at that point. The
Navarro was our starting catcher. Some pitchers young. David Price Shields,
(21:31):
he wasn't you know, long in the tooth by any means.
So there was a lot of youth there, but just
a nice That's why it's nice to you know, salt
and pepper, the whole thing where you do get direction
from the from the clubhouse.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
And I'm telling you it's that important.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
The guys, the players will peers will listen to the
peers more intently and again there's not this choosing of
size or finding allies to support my cause. You're not
going to find allies within the clubhouse if it's a
meeting among the players only. But if you put managers
coaches against players sometimes and the players somebody has cash here,
(22:10):
they're going to create that valley between all of this.
So again, I'm just trying to describe all this as
completely as I can. There's a lot of micro stuff
goes into this, and it's got to be well thought out.
You got to read the room. You got to read
your guys. You got to know the beat to heartbeat.
You got to know what you can say and cannot
say to whom and how honestly without compassion, an equal cruelty.
(22:32):
And sometimes you just got to know who handles well
and who does not. And sometimes it's a blunt object
and sometimes it's a velvet hammer.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
All this stuff is important.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, And one more example of managers handling scuffling stars.
Jose Abray with the Astros has had a tough season
this year, and I love what Dusty Baker did last week.
He gave him a day off the day before and
off day, and then gave him a day off on
the other side of the off day, so he gave
him three days, which, as you know, Joe, it's kind
of like a mini All Star break. It's a mental
(23:06):
break as much as anything. He had dropped a Brave
in the lineup to fifth or sixth, and when he
brought him back last weekend after his three day break,
put him back in the cleanup spot. Coincidentally or not,
A Brave responded with four hits and two games, including
a home run. So I love the way that Dusty
Baker took advantage of the off day. And Joe, you
(23:27):
know what even one day can do for a player,
but especially three days to get the head clear. Wow.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well that was Carl Crawford. C c Carl played every day.
Carl played hard. So I would look for that, exactly
what you're talking about. And I said, Ceci, we're gonna
do that. We're gonna get you two days off. We're
going to pick the day you're gonna get the day
off before the day off or the day off after
the day off. And sometimes I have done the three
spot too, but I would pick and choose a day
(23:54):
before a day after based on the other team's pitcher.
Like it was a tough left hand of the day after.
Then give him the second day of the day after,
not the day before, So you try to match it
up as well as you possible. We can take advantage
of the schedule. You look for rest, but within the
schedule based on matchups and stuff. That's I always wanted
a ten day planner in advance. I wanted ten days
from the that's what I want from the analytical staff.
(24:15):
Give me ten days in advance. Whose picture of the
other team and how do our dudes match up and
among the people that need a rest, when would be
the optimal moment in your estimation to give.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Him that rest?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And then I would try to match it up with
what I was thinking. So that to me is analytically
well designed. And that's a really benefit of that where
the guys can give you that kind of information so
far in advance that you can make a better informed decisions.
So all that is part of making your lineup rest.
And I'm a big advocate of breast as you know.
(24:46):
And it's perfect because I saw a braiw but that
was in La that he was.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Playing right after the break.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I think, right, that's right, And he looked he looked
very frisky, no question.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, all right, we've got to talk about talk about
managers dealing with disappointments. The biggest disappointment of this twenty
twenty three season is the New York Mets. You know,
what is a three hundred and sixty million dollars payroll,
eight games under five hundred. They have not won a
series the entire month, and it's really interesting to watch
the team, almost like in quicksand the more they try,
(25:16):
the worse off it gets. And the way the manager
Buck Showalter handles it. Now, he took a lot of
grief for the game on Sunday against Philadelphia, where he
lost the lead in the eighth inning without using his
best pitchers. He had David robertson his closer, who had
thrown just thirteen pitches the day before, had pitched only
twice in the previous eleven days, and Buck was saving
(25:38):
him for the ninth inning. Of course, there never was
a ninth inning because Philadelphia rallied in the eighth against
some of the lower pieces or lesser pieces, and Bucks bullpen.
That's the way it's gone for the New York Mets,
you know. And then you have a game, give the
ball to Justin Verlander. The next game at home and
you lose to Milwaukee two to one. Bullpen Drew Smith
(25:59):
comes in gives up a home run after he was suspended,
and by the way, Bucks bullpen was short game on
Sunday because Drew Smith was serving his ten year suspension
for using too much sticky stuff on his hand. You know,
my question, Joe, for you is not so much about
individual moves, but sometimes as a manager, did you take
on some of the heat for your players? In other words,
(26:21):
it's almost like a diversion when guys are struggling to
try and hard the results are not good, that some
of the stories coming out of the team would come
out of the manager's office rather than falling on the players.
Any any any way, that that was across your raider
when you had teams that were scuffling.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
First order of business, first job of the managers, protect
your brood.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Uh Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna extend in front of everybody.
You're gonna explain things off to take the heat off
of your players. You're always going to do that, and
you're going to accept responsibility and.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
You are going to take the heat that's what you're
there for.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
But I always stopped. My first thing to do is
to protect the brood. It's no different than your family,
texture group A, B C D number one, number two, three,
four five, that's what that's what the manager does. And
I don't know that that's spoken about enough. And I
just saw a little clip with Buck and that's exactly
what he was doing. I know was that game in
question right there, but the question posed to him, what
(27:21):
he did well, like he always does, is he's protecting
his group. And the thing I love about what Buck's
doing right now, how consistent he's remained in his demeanor
and his response. Buck is going to think it all
the way through. He's not going to be over emotional,
so don't expect him to be overemotional.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
That's not who he is.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
He's very consistent in his approaching. To me, that equals discipline.
And I love that the Mets aren't playing well because
they lost. They lose their closer during the WBC A
number one, and they're not playing well because there's got
any poor performance and that's not his fault.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, I will say this, Joe. I think they're at
the point of their season, especially now with this balance
schedule where you don't play many games against the teams
in your division like Philadelphia, you have fewer head to heads, Right,
you're this far underwater. Yeah, every game to me becomes
more and more urgent at this time of year, no denying.
I mean there's some points you got to start trying
(28:19):
to win the game outside of what your normal path
to victory is, because I don't want to say the
Mets are running out of time, but maybe running out
of opportunities.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Well, first of all, regarding that situation without Robertson, who
is the batting order for the Phillies in the eighth?
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I would just be curious.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Did he have him lined up for the ninth because
there was a stronger batting order coming up in the
night than he thought this guy could handle the eighth.
That's one thing. Number two, the unavailability of pitchers always,
to me is intriguing based on you know, the the
edicts from upstairs who's available and who's not available that night.
And he's not going to again, he's going to protect
the front office or the analytical department too, So I
don't know. I mean he may have made choices there
(28:56):
based on what he was told he was able to
use and not able to use that day. See, these
are the things that you know, fans and writers don't
know because we're not going to spill the beans on that.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
You're not going to do that.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You're just going to do the organization or whatever, and
you're going to not use robertson maybe like this situation
in eighth because two three fourths coming up in the
ninth potentially something like that.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, he did go with the eighth inning. You did
have Schwarber, Turner, Harper coming up, so they big bets
were coming up to the eighth. You make a good point, though, Joe,
and I saw this in the Verlander loss. Well, he
didn't get the loss. Drew Smith got the loss. You know,
Verlander came out after five innings with one hundred pitches, right,
and I know there's probably some fans thinking, well, leave
(29:41):
him in. He's gone up to one hundred and seventeen
this year. Why is he coming out after five? But
if you watch that game, and this is interesting with
the pitch timer, Joe, the Mets were going down one, two,
three against Colin Ray and Verlander had very little time
before he was literally back on the mound. Sure, so
you had that, you had the Brewers extending at bets,
(30:02):
you had Verlander covering first base a couple of times,
and then you had Verlander is lined up to make
his next start on the fifth day. Now, normal rest
in today's game is six so that's almost short. Rest
is only four days of rest, So Buck has to
think about the next time Verlander is going to get
the ball. So those are so many things that came
(30:22):
into play rather than just looking at this game at
a vacuum and saying, well, he went one to seventeen earlier,
he can go one to seventeen. Leave him in Well,
if you watch the game, the pitch timer, the length
of the abats, the next time he's going out onto
the mound. Man, there were a lot of factors that
factored in there, including Verlander's age. And he said it
himself that the time in between and some of these
(30:44):
fast innings now under the pitch timer is something that
all pitchers, but especially older ones, are getting used to.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
No, the interconnectivity of the game, that's what you're just describing.
You're absolutely right, and that if you as a manager
after a game, sit and give all those different thoughts
or reasons. It sounds like you're making excuses where you've
been asked a question and then you want to really
like if you want to get really involved, he I'm
going to tell you everything I was thinking about in
that moment, but it never comes across. Well, so you
(31:11):
do the cliff notes. The game is interconnected nightly, you're
making decisions tonight based on tomorrow because you have to.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
You have to space this.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Out, and that's why you have to have a deep
roster that other people that are able to perform, pick
other people up when people need rest, and that's how
you start winning games or create longer winning streaks when
you have that kind of interconnected depth, and if you
don't have it, it's almost impossible to do so again as.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
A manager, I'm not going to give you all that
only because it sounds like I'm making excuses.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
But those are all the different thoughts that go into
making decisions.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well, said Joe, You've been there before and you've handled
it well, so those words certainly resonate. Hey, we're going
to take a quick break. When we come back. I
said I needed some help. Some recommendations music recommendations from Joe.
We'll get into that next Welcome back to the Book
(32:12):
of Joe podcast. By the way, Joe, we're talking about
players scuffling, and we've talked about this before, but incredibly
is still happening. Mike Trout just cannot get going. His
lugging percentages down to four eighty. That's good for a
lot of players, but it's a career low for him.
After hitting two hundred in May against fastballs, He's hitting
(32:34):
two hundred again against fastballs in June and seeing more
fastballs than anybody but Miles Straw. I don't know whether
you've got a chance to watch much of Mike lately,
but man, Joe, I thought by now he figured something out.
And I keep waiting for that surge. You know it's coming,
but it hasn't happened yet. It's been very strange to see.
(32:55):
I'm sure it is for you.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, I'm watching it.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
And I saw him hit a home right against Cranky
ninety one down and in right into the slot of
his swing.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yeah, he's he is.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
He's kind of tunneled or channeled into where the swing
path is right now.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
I'm watching.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
I don't watch I have seen them a lot, but
I've seen them a bit, and he will make the adjustment.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
But that's and you've talked about Stanton, and you've talked about.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
There's other guys.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I mean, I know that the last year or two
there whatever, or the last several years when we're beating
somebody with the fastball, and I mean, just it could
be like but it's perceived to be kind of pedestrian
fastball maybe ninety three and ninety four, But nevertheless, it's
the straight ball, backspin and force force seemers. It gets
(33:45):
on here. If there's that little bit of right to
it at all, it plays up. It plays up even
to a bigger number than that. Why do something differently,
I think because this is another analytical component. When you
have this kind of data to support results, you'll stay
with it. So I mean, if you're a pitching you're
gonna say I'm not gonna throw a three fastballs in
a row.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
There's no way to do that.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
But no, before the game, somebody sits you down and says, listen,
do this. If you're going to go break the ball,
make sure it's a strike ball, make sure it's a
chase pitch, but do not go ball, strike, break the
ball as an example, and we're going to keep doing
this until he shows otherwise, so that that is data driven.
Back in the day, you had an advanced scout. He'd
(34:27):
sit in the stands right and he would watch just
that team. He would scout that team that you're going
to play next and send reports based on that. So
the pitchers that the age would be playing would be
reported upon, and how we pitched, and the pitchers then
up their pitchers of course, with our hitters limited limited numbers,
so you're not going to can ever convince yourself to
(34:48):
do that. Mattie Keo wanted us to throw front door
breaking balls to Edgar Martinez in the nineties, which was
not a pitch. Back then, it was like, what are
you talking about. That's a hanging slider.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So all this.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Stuff, with the data and the and the and the
really stockpile of information, it permits or provides greater confidence
in regard to the game planning that you're putting out there.
So right now, everybody that they're playing the Angels, they're
just saying the same thing until he shows us this,
we're doing this, and you don't have to change up
(35:19):
or try different things you're fifteen years ago that wouldn't
have happened.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
It's happening now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
You know, you made a good point about those those
fastballs with ride. We know velocity keeps going up. Back
in twenty seventeen wasn't really that long ago when Stanton
was the MVP. You know, the average fastball has got
up a mile per hour since then, and batting average
against fastballs has gone down eleven points. And that's not
(35:45):
that long ago. So you know, guys in their thirties,
the Donaldson's, the Stanton's, the trouts, they're seeing more velocity
from more pitchers. By the way, in twenty seventeen, there
were only forty pitchers who touched one hundred miles an hour.
We're halfway through the season and already have had forty
four pitchers hit one hundred miles an hour.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
I mean, it's not that long ago, but Joe, I'm
looking at a different world when it comes to pure
stuff on the mound in today's game.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And also consider the techniques being taught with the hitters. Again, analytically,
we want the balls in the stands, we want homers,
We want you to go for the home run even
with two strikes. No adjustments here, keep taking that hack.
We want the homer. We don't need that blooper to
right field. We don't want you to accept your walk right.
We just want you to drive the ball to the ballpark,
(36:37):
swing up a launch angle, et cetera. So when you
combine launch angle with added velocity, whoah, that is devastating. Now,
when I watched Dan, I don't necessarily see launch angle.
He looks like he really wants to flatten it out
a bit, but that really opens up a big hole
underneath them at his back foot, especially by the way
he stands. So it's a combination of yes, added velocity,
(37:01):
which I was watching Hicks with Say Louis when I
a couple years ago.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
The kid could throw a strike.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Now now he's thrown two seam strikes at one hundred
and two three miles an hour. Sink, they got no chance.
The ball's coming back eight inches for a strike on
the outside corner, you have no chance on that. They're
just trying to basically foul off and hopefully get to
another pitch. So combination of velocity with the approach and teaching,
I think obviously has led to a great number of strikeouts.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
All right, let's talk about barbecues and music. Uh you
got I'm sure you got some powerful outdoor speakers as well.
I know you love them in your vehicles that you drive,
so true. Yeah, you got a bunch of people over.
We got the grill fired up. We need some good
tunes in the background. Where should I go?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Well, you know, if you're we're talking, it's let me
go for the west coast first. Let's go west to east.
The beach boys. I mean, you know, regardless whether it's
on a beach or just in the summer situation, endless summer,
you would want to have the beach boys blaring out
during the summer. I mean good vibrations simply. And I'm
going to have my first party at the pat here
(38:06):
as soon. The railings almost put up on the deck
and I got the k G curator coming on Thursday.
The grill is ready to go. I got heating elements.
If he gets cool, the view of spectacular beach boys.
Good vibrations. Man, It's always starts with good vibrations for me,
and I'm definitely I'm sticking to it. And then again
you start moving back east like you know, the summertime stuff.
(38:30):
How about just the good old Love and Spoonful, you know, yeah,
I that to me has got the summer kind of
lilt to it. And yes, you're right. The Sono speakers
interconnected through this whole pad booms everywhere. I keep them
up to seventy seventy five, so the people on the
golfers on the thirty can hear my music every time
(38:51):
they go to hit their t shots.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
But yeah, I'm going.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Probably unsuspecting choices. But the beach boys to Love and Spoonful, man,
to me, that equal summer bashing all those dudes. And
I love Nashville Cats, I mean just stupid stuff.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I mean, it just.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Got that little funky summary beat for me that I love.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I went to Spotify for a since sometimes it's hit
and miss for a barbecue mix, right, okay, and I
heard a Billy Joel song okay, and then I have
not heard for years, and I was like, wow, that
brought me back summer Highland falls okay now, and the
early Billy Joel is just amazing, right right. I wasn't
(39:34):
so much into his pop stuff, you know. It seemed
like the higher he got on the charts the less.
I kind of liked this stuff but early on, and
obviously Piano Man is just an incredible album. But I'm
going Billy Joel East Coast Pick.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Okay, okay, I listened Step Brothers, didn't. They went into
the eighties Billy Joel. They liked early Billy Joe too.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
But I get it, un totally get it.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
The Catalina Wine Mixer, that group that was on the
stage there, I understand.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I understand where you're coming from.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
By the way you dropped the Keggerator on us. I
gotta know more. Yeah, I tell me more, please.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Yeah, we got well the back the backyard is so cool.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
I got a two stall ca graator, so I got
a double tap on one side, a fridge on the other,
an area for prep for food right next to the grill.
So the cake Greator will be on Thursday, and we're
gonna go half Corona premiere, and we're trying to figure
out the other half whether it's going to be just
Yangling or Yangling Flight, you know, being the fact that
we're over thirty five forty years of age, we prefer
(40:33):
the light beer, so maybe half. I'm a big Corona guy.
Eddie better whenever upsit with Eddie. I love I love
our coronas we love our but the premiere for me
is solid. I like the solid Corona premiere on one side,
Yangling or Yangling flight on the other. Because I wanted
some of the local stuff out of Potsville.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yeah, you gotta stay local, I mean, yeah, throwing a
couple of rocks too, Yeah, talking of rocks.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah, no, Listen, that was the That was the drink
of choice at Lafayette and any cager that we had
around here back in the day was always the rock.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
All right. So what's going on the grill? What's the
food choice on the grill?
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Yeah, well, there's a couple of things. I've learned how
to rot tissery. I have rot tisrie now and I've
done ribs on rotisserie. And the big thing about the
ribs on rotissri could have mustard dry rub on it,
and then what I like to do as it's rotating, obviously,
sprits it with orange juice. I get a bottle, spritz
(41:30):
it with orange juice every fifteen minutes. Hit it up,
and you want to get those ribs nice and hot
before you take them off. They're like almost one hundred
and ninety degrees or so. And that's when you do
take them off and put a little dipping sauce. Don't
add any sauce, just put the sauce on the side.
The dipping sauce is great. And then right down the street,
Frankie Rat is my guy down here at the pro shop.
(41:51):
We order some I order steaks from the purveyor there
and we cut them up and bring them over like
two inch stick New York strippers, and I like to
start those with limon fused olive oil and then just
got to go with Montreal seasoning or something like that.
But I get the internal temperature up to like one
six take them off, like to get them off ready
to eat pre less than one forty. And these suckers
(42:14):
are just so so good. So that's primarily you're going
to see ribs and gro tistrie ribs chicken, of course,
the burgers and dogs, et cetera. But I'm really into
limeon fused olive oil right now and splitching ribs with
orange juice.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah to me, You know you mentioned dogs and burgers
yet traditional I actually love me a good barbecued chicken sandwich.
Maybe a little bacon on there, fresh tomato, lettuce. The
bun is absolutely important. But I go there. But my
wife does an incredible pizza on the outdoor grill. She's
(42:49):
got one of those stones, yes, and it gets super
hot and you can get it done in like four minutes.
You're talking like six hundred seven hundred degrees in there,
and it comes out nice and crispy. I like the
the old school kind of crispy, almost like a flatbread type.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
I do that too.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
We have Snaps Pizza here in town and a bakery
and you could buy the pre formed shells and they
give you a kit with sauce in the and the cheese.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
But again on the crust of dough.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
I started out with limon fused olive oil. Then the
big thing for me is I like salty, So I
got green olives and capers on my pizzas.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
And then I take the.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Sausage and the pepperoni, and I use a grater and
grate it down like the crumby, like fine crumbs of
sausage and pepperoni, and a little fry on that, and
then throw that on the top there too, and then
dump all different kinds of cheeses on it. You're right,
about four minutes at the most. I put it on
the stone on a piece of parchment paper, and it's
been a pretty big hit.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
And by the way, I have had your pizza.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
That's right, you have Snaps.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Snaps has not just great dough. They got great sauce too.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
That's one hundred percent plus. We also have our Mad
Pizza Sauce. We do sell that. It's for the foundation.
We have Mad Pizza Sauce, pasta sauce, and Madden Chowchow.
My dad's on the pizza sauce, my grandparents Taliant are
on the pasta sauce, and my mom Beanie is on
the chowchow, which is a really big hit. It's great
(44:17):
with even just a hot dog, meat loaf, fried meatballs.
The child child's outstanding. If you're really interested, we get
you more information. But all the proceeds for that go
to the Respect ninety Foundation.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Very cool. It's a big day on the calendar. Fourth
of July weekend coming up. It's a big day. And
you know, as far as the summer schedule, but even
the baseball schedule, I always felt like, you know, those
teams traditionally in first place, on the fourth of July.
They're for real and it's almost like your spot to
lose at that point of the season.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
I mean, you've you figured it out a little bit.
You've got that kind of that thing going on in
the clubhouse. Everybody's starting to believe right now, we're like
Pittsburgh's descending a bit, Cincinnati is ascending right now, Baltimore's
keeping their spot among the other groups right now. And
then you see, like you're talking about the Yankees, where's
that energy going to come from to get them over
(45:05):
the top?
Speaker 3 (45:06):
I understand that completely.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
You know, the Blue Jays still want to vacillate right
during the middle, not knowing exactly where they want to go.
And of course I don't know how the Dodgers keep
doing it, but they do. Andrew does such a wonderful
job out there.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
And even the.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Angels, I mean, like the Angels are hanging in there
really well. I like Griff and Kenny making his comeback.
I love that Griff is pitching as well as he is,
and David Fletcher's back up, so you know, keeping track
of all this stuff is it is really interesting right now.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, it's a great time a summer, great time of year.
So Joey, you got something to take us out here
as we head into a big weekend.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Everything we've been talking about. Brother again, mister Twain, May
you always keep your youth. You know, everybody wants to
be grown ups, everybody you just we just.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
We want to become old.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
And we got to dress a certain way and you
got to cut your hair and you know, wear different
kind of clothes.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
May you always keep your youth.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
It's it's probably the most important I think you could
possibly do.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
The important words to remember. Great job, Joe. We'll see
you next time on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
You tube brother. Thanks for everything man see it by.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Fox Sports Radio News
Host
Jonas Knox
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.