December 1, 2025 • 40 mins
Social media is everywhere and it’s changing the way we think, feel, and interact. Amanda White, licensed therapist and host of Nuance Needed, returns to unpack the real impact of viral trends, rage bait, and online advice on our mental health.
Amanda shares practical strategies for:
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Recognizing and avoiding misleading or extreme content online.
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Reclaiming your attention in a world designed to distract you.
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Practicing psychological flexibility and healthy boundaries in daily life.
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Taking small, intentional steps toward balance and wellbeing.
Whether you scroll daily or just peek at trends, this conversation will make you rethink how you interact with social media and help you take back control of your mind.
🎧 Follow Amanda’s podcast Nuance Needed for even more insights into mental health and navigating the online world.
📲 Follow Amanda on social media: @therapyforwomen
📲 Follow the podcast: @takethispersonally
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Personal fuels men, anyone else having the post Turkey family
time blues? I am feeling it this week with the
holidays coming up. I've got a lot of awesome interviews
for you guys, but they're a bit more hodgepodge than series,
so we may have a few mini series over the
next couple of weeks where it may be totally random,
also with your input, hopefully. I love when you guys
(00:36):
share what you want to hear and who you may
want me to have on as a guest. This week's episode,
I wanted to bring back on Amanda White. She's a
therapist and she was on my very first episode of
this podcast. She recently started her own podcast, Nuance Needed
to address the way social media has changed the landscape
for our relationships, mental health, and well everything. I think
you guys are gonna love this conversation. Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
You all may remember Amanda White.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
She was the very first episode that we had of
take this personally many many months ago now.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
But I'm excited to welcome We're back, Amanda. How are you?
Thanks for coming on, I'm good. Thanks so much for
having me. I'm excited to chat with you. Morgan, me too.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Because there's so much life has happened since we last
had you on, and we talked about a whole lot
of things, but honestly, more than anything, social media has
changed drastically in the last two years since we've talked,
and that was kind of the whole reason I brought
you on. So we're going to get into it, but
I want to start with why you created a podcast
(01:42):
that's all about nuance.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I think it's what's missing in the world right I
just feel so frustrated lately with social media. I think
it's just gotten worse and worse over the past couple years.
Where I've been explaining it like it feels like we're
playing this giant game of telephone, and what started as
helpful concepts and important things we were educating people on
(02:08):
has become twisted and misconstrued and we are talking about
something totally different than what we started with. And a
lot of that is because concepts all across the board.
I'm obviously talking about mental health concepts and therapy concepts
but in different categories also have just flattened so much
(02:32):
that it's stripping everything of nuance, and it's like, what
are we even talking about anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Well, And from what I can tell from a lot
of your posts, especially in that mental health field, we're
seeing just a lot of people who don't have background
or knowledge or the even education to be sharing a
lot of topics that they are. And on top of that,
then society is taking these very therapy based terms and
(02:59):
turning the too trends or things that we're doing to
post and make them either look pretty or look worse.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Is what I'm seeing. Is that what you're seeing also, Yes, definitely,
And I think it's because one reason is, like the
public has a very different perception of they collapse therapy
terms you see online and what actual therapy looks like.
And I think that's also because we have a like
(03:26):
the mental health industry is also not super regulated in
terms of like the word therapist is not a protected word.
Anyone can call themselves a therapist, even if they are
not licensed, even if they don't have training. Yeah, I
think that's definitely what I've been seeing. Everyone is a
coach or teaching a course now and nothing again, Like,
(03:49):
there are some really great coaches out there, but I
think it's really confusing for the average person to understand
what do I do. What do I pay attention to?
It's like there's so much information. It's I feel like
this is the problem with our world right now. Like
I always think about the analogy of TV and how
there is more TV options right than ever we could
(04:10):
have imagined, and yet all of us sit on our
couches at the end of the day and just scroll
through options and then end up just watching the same
thing because it's like too many options and so much
bad stuff to sort through. You're so overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, and how do we, like the average person? I'm
somebody who doesn't have a therapy background. I try and
be really conscious of what I'm posting online. It's really
just meant to be for entertainment and people to connect
rather than me really inform unless I feel so strongly
that I have years and years to teach on something,
which I really don't, right, I just have my experience. Yeah, So,
(04:51):
how do we as the average person start to work
through this to understand what we're learning online.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Is actually help versus hurting us. What are we supposed
to do just the normal person in this new space.
I think one of the things is look for people
who do address nuance. Obviously, nuance is going to hide
on the Internet even if someone doesn't mean to. I
post a lot of nuanced things, but my most nuanced
(05:20):
posts don't get views a lot of times. So it
could be easy to just look at some of my
most popular posts and maybe not see the full breadth
of what I'm talking about. But I think just being
a little bit more. And it's so hard now because
right even when we talked, we didn't have this feed
of people who we don't follow who would show up
(05:43):
on our feed. It was it used to be with
Instagram right before the algorithm, it was just logical. But
then after that at least you had to follow someone
to see their stuff, or someone would repost something to
see their stuff, where now you're going to be fed
stuff that you don't necessarily agree with, you don't like,
(06:03):
isn't something you would ever click on, and it's showing
up on your feed. So I think the first step
is before you take anything as the advice or something
to do, I would check out that person's profile. Some
people don't even exist. There are bots, there are now
AI people that are starting to They're not real people
(06:25):
who are having accounts. So I think we have to
start with just not taking everything on as something we
should do or even take seriously. Well.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
And that's what's super crazy too, is we're watching a
day and age of social media where you, like I
have to as someone who is actively on social media.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I am a digital director.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I know exactly what is happening on social media at
all times. But even I, as somebody who's very skilled
and well versed in technology and digital media, have to
do very very deep research to be like, is this
actually true? Or is somebody trying to divide us or
somebody trying to really play to one side of this?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
What is actually happening. There was a story the other day.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I see this ninety one year old woman who's in
a hospital gown in a courtroom and she got arrested
for stealing heart meds for her husband, who's like really ill.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, And I'm.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Sitting here, like looking at this post, completely enraged because
I'm like, yeah, that happens. I'm gonna be mad. This
is a society we shouldn't have. And then I went
to three different places trying to figure out the validity
of this story and it wasn't real. It was ai
And it took me as someone who is very well
(07:43):
versed in digital technology to understand that this was happening,
but my visceral reaction was anger. So it's like it's
doing what it's supposed to do, but nobody takes that
second step to say, wait a minute, is that actually
true before I share that and give my visceral reaction
to what's happening.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah. Absolutely, I feel the same way even with like
therapy content and things like that I see, and yeah, absolutely,
especially with images and videos produced by AI. It is
just a different landscape. You basically can't trust anything without
verifying it these days, which is an insane thing to have.
(08:22):
One of my thoughts about it too, is I interviewed
on my podcast a misinformation researcher who is incredible, and
a big thing he talked about is anytime you do
get that immediate visceral reaction, and you probably know this too, right,
it is telling you something. And often anything that is
creating an extreme reaction like that is way less likely
(08:46):
to be accurate or be representative of what's actually going on.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And it's crazy that we have to be so just
vigilant online of what we're consuming, of what we're making
sure we're spread because we're also the source of things
spreading further. Right, I could have been the source there
to continue sharing that story and made it just that
much worse and spread like wildfires. So we have our
responsibility on this other side, not just of consuming for
(09:15):
the sake of ourselves and our brains and our mental health,
but we also have a responsibility as a consumer to
not be the one who's adding fuel to those fires.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And it sucks. It sucks that we have to do that,
given everything else that we all have to do these days, Like,
it feels very unfair. I think that now we have
to be vigilant online and we have to assume everything
is false. But unfortunately that is the world that we
live in right now.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It absolutely is. And Yeah, to your point, we have
so many things to worry about. It it's really another.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Thing we need to worry about.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Come on, you were talking on your social media. I
know you're doing substack, but doing substack a little bit
also on Instagram where you share these carousel posts of
really getting into deep detail about things. Yeah, what do
you feel like are some of the things that we've
as far as therapy terms that we are just exploding
(10:15):
in the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I think everything is getting I think if we look
at polarization in every arena, I think that's where we are,
and I think what's really I've talked about just and
it's been something I've been seeing a lot with my
clients as well, of just everything is so misconstrued. No
one knows what to do anymore. I think if you
(10:39):
take the word boundaries that was so important is so
important a few years ago, people didn't even really it
wasn't like a common concept, and we've twisted it into
boundaries means I never have to do anything that I
don't want to do, and society starts to break down
(11:00):
when that happens. I've done posts about what do we
owe each other and stuff too, because if every single
person in the world is just like I'm out to
get mine, I'm not inconveniencing myself. I'm not going to
be uncomfortable. Not only does society break down, but it's
not good for our mental health. A lot of my
work as a therapist is always talking about someone's support system,
(11:24):
always talking about who they're connected to. We know that
is so fundamental to our mental health, and I just
am very frustrated by the overcorrect we've done, where we've
taken things such as especially abusive situations, harmful situation. Some
of these phrases really helped women who were people pleasers,
who struggled to say no, and now that is all
(11:47):
drowned out because it's been taken to such an extreme.
I get very concerned about the people who are using
them properly and in good faith, and it drowning that
out because we now just think boundaries means I'm going
to do whatever I want. So when someone tries to
authentically set a boundary, I think people are bristling at
(12:10):
that idea. Yeah, and that's so.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Dangerous, not just in the social media world, but in
our personal relationships, right, because you see things online and
you take them for face value, and then you put
that into.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Your real world, and well.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's going to be a little damaging because you don't
have all of the actual information that you need to
be incorporating.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
That into your real life. And it's super frustrating for me.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
I feel like what this tool came about, right, social
media started as this place for gathering and for community
and to see each other and be connected, and it's
turned into this situation.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Now where it is the source.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Of a lot of our problems instead of the source
for what it was created for. And it's difficult, right
because I believe in evolution, I believe in growing, and
I believe that we should continue to constantly learn and
grow and expand. But this doesn't feel like that. Am
I weird or wrong for feeling that about all of this? No?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I feel like that too. It feels like recently things
have taken a turn and we're like spiraling. I don't know.
The telephone analogy is what just keeps coming back to me.
It's not a growth. It is like a turning inward
of itself, and it's getting too big and misconstrued, and
(13:38):
it's a totally different beast than when it started. I
think we're now coming up with solutions to problems that
were created by social media is creating problems or we're
all disconnected from each other, we're not meeting in real life.
And then we have social media companies that are now
creating solutions to that problem, that are to be online
more and now have AI friends, and at some point
(14:02):
is like a snake eating itself. It is just unsustainable.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Well, because you can offer such a great insight too.
From this other perspective, you're seeing people in real life
clients for therapy work who are dealing real life with
what has come from social media and really blended into.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Our real lives every day.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So what are you seeing from that perspective as a
therapist where you're like, oh my gosh, social media is
just there's something happening here and I'm a little worried
for my clients.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Give me that perspective totally. I think one of the
things I've been seeing is the people who are really
attempting to make friends, are trying to show up, be
in their communities, throw a party, and nobody comes because
it's too much work to go to someone's party, they
don't want to get out of their bubble, they're exhausted
from work, all of those things, and then it creates
(14:57):
this self fulfilling prophecy where if someone puts themselves out
there and has a gathering of inviting people over and
then nobody comes, that person feels bad about themselves and
then they're more likely to retreat also, and then the
other people in their circle then they don't have anything
to go to, and then they're like no one's inviting
me anywhere. It's weird, right, then the whole culture shifts
(15:19):
of what is weird versus what is not. And I
think that's a really good example of some of the
stuff I'm seeing of people just being like, well, I'm
protecting my peace, I'm protecting my mental health, I need
to conserve my energy. I'm not going to push myself
to go to someone's house or do something outside my
comfort zone. And then everyone is negatively impacted and it
(15:42):
reverberates through a whole community. Yeah, gosh, that makes.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Me so sad, right because you just know that's hurting
people's social well being.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
And we're social creatures.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
We're meant to be in gatherings, we're meant to be
around people. I've meant to have these strong foundations of
friendship and relationships. And it's also funny the way that
you mentioned that, because it was something that was sparking
in my head where I often feel like I'm very
level headed, I'm very self aware, but even times when
(16:17):
if I lose a friendship and I've put those boundaries
in place, social media almost makes me feel crazy if
I didn't do it in the right way, or if
I did it in a certain manner, and it's like, wait,
was I wrong for that? But that feels really right
based on my experience and everything that I experienced.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
But social media is making me feel a different way.
So am I right? Are they right? What are we
doing here? Are you seeing that happen too? Yes? Absolutely,
And I think a big part of that also comes
from we're losing the skill of discernment when everything is
very specifically curated for us and we don't see things
(16:58):
that are different from our beliefs or or outside of
the norm, and we're just being reinforced the same things.
And then you add in like rage bait on top
of that, it is difficult for us to remember that
not everything applies to us, not everything is about us.
The being soup theory. Yes, exactly, we can see something
(17:21):
and not take it personally and not react to it.
And I think your example is a good one, because, yeah,
when we have so many especially the way people are
very authoritative online of this is the right way to
set boundaries. People are so black and white online. This
is good, this is bad. This is how you talk
to a friend, this is how you don't And there
is no I try to make my content about how
(17:43):
can I teach you to do something? How can I
teach you the skills to learn what applies to you
versus telling you what applies to you, because that will
go much farther. But yeah, even I fall into it
with health stuff because I'm not as well versed, right,
Obviously I know about physical health and stuff, But I'm like,
am I doing something wrong? Because I don't go on
(18:06):
like a circadium rhythm walk every morning? Would I be better?
Is this the secret? And I think we are so
being taught to look externally for the solutions because never
in history have we been bombarded with so much like
self improvement content, even if you are on social media
(18:29):
and you don't seek that out, Like this goes beyond
just mental health. It's physical health content. It's parenting optimization content,
it's work optimization content, it's whatever your field is, how
to be better at work content. It's so much we
are drowning in it and we don't have time or
(18:51):
the wherewithal to step back and be like is this
too much information? Is this for me? Is this helpful?
Should this apply to my life? And again, like I
think back to even five years ago when we were
on social media and a lot of what we saw
was our friends or maybe some celebrities. It wasn't everyone
(19:14):
telling you what to do. Now everything, every single everyone's
an entrepreneur, so they're all trying to like add value
and create everything. And this is nothing against entrepreneurs, but
the way that it's taught as like, I don't know,
every person is trying to add value, and we make
adding value about influencing someone or telling them what to
(19:37):
do in some way that we lose touch of what
our values are and what actually is important to us. Well.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
And I can even speak to this from the digital perspective.
I know what is happening on social media for people
to do to go viral, to get content seen. People
who are creating content are inc couraged. This is across
the board, right, There's no one platform that is or
isn't doing it.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
It's across the board.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, if you want to be seen, it's like, first
five seconds, you have to say something really catchy. So
when you think of that, everybody who thinks catchy, it's
gonna have to be something that's gonna make you angry.
It's gonna make you feel like you have to be
like told what to do. It's like this, this five
seconds is what's molding our brain because creators are having
(20:26):
to But now we have so many people who have
jobs out of creation, which is beautiful that people are
finding ways to make money, but then their livelihood depends
on it, so then they have to make sure I
have to get the attention in the first five seconds,
which means creating things that may not be exactly what
they want to create, but they're forced to in order
(20:47):
to be seen on a feed. So if truly like
when you find creators that you love, you have to
support them. And when you feel that way and you're like,
this is something I believe in, Like I see a
lot of creators out there who show the messiness of
their home or the things that.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Make it a little bit less esthetically pleasing.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And I'm like, follow them, make sure they're in your
feed and they're part of you, because it's the only
thing that you can actually do as a consumer on
a digital platform to drown out some of that noise
and engage with it. Then it keeps popping up for
you because if you don't, the algorithm is going to
feed you what it thinks is best and what it
thinks is best is stuff that's rage bait, stuff that's
telling you exactly what you should and shouldn't do, what
(21:25):
you should and shouldn't believe. And it's so crazy the
way that we're even teaching the algorithms that that's what
we want because we're consuming it and we're engaging with it.
It's interesting from a digital perspective to watch what's happening
on social media. And it's also funny because I'm somebody
who refuses to do it unless it actually is beneficial
(21:47):
and I'm going to help somebody through it. You're never
gonna see me do something rage baity where I'm like, Okay,
well I'm gonna make you really angry just because I
need to. That's just not who I am. And I
think you have a lot of creators out there who
are also like that. But it's interesting you mentioned that
because I can see it from the actual side of
where it's coming from.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad you brought that up. And yeah,
I think the other component of this is as everything
is becoming so dependent on social media. I think about
the book publishing industry right used to have a lot
of power over the books that were made and ones
that were successful, and now everything has become you have
to have a following to be able to get a
book deal. If you think about news media right as
(22:31):
it's become like decentralized and more independently creators and stuff
like that, we are a lot more independent. Journalists used
to be able to not like, have a lot more
protection over not caring about whether all of their stuff
was seen, and now those people are more dependent on
hooks and act more like creators and things like that too.
(22:53):
So it's wild, it is.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It's really infiltrated and everything it's infiltrated in the music
industry too. That's where we see a lot of talent
coming from is TikTok and Instagram, whether they're actors or
their artists.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
It's such a big part of our lives.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
And it's also why I wanted to have this conversation
because it's not all bad. And again, as somebody who's
on the side of creation and understanding social media, it's
my exact job I do every day. It's not all bad.
It can actually be really good and really useful and important.
But I think what we get back to is that
really tricky word that you had mentioned, which is discernment
(23:31):
and understanding how much of a role we are playing
in our consumption of social media. And it's an important
topic right now more than ever because we just it's
getting really easy to be unaware that we have a
role that we're playing. And it's why I had really
wanted to bring you on because not only were you
creating the Nuance Podcast to really get into the nitty
(23:54):
gritty of a lot of topics that are important, but
it's to bring an awareness to discernment and nuance. Is
there anything you have to share on those as I
say that because I know that's really your bread and
butter right now.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, I agree with you that I think we have
to start seeking out things. I think one of the
things that people could do also in addition to what
you were saying about really being clear about the people
they follow, putting your energy into creators that you like,
into things you want more of, supporting people, I think
also taking stock of what is important to you. Right
(24:29):
like in this attention economy, our attention is so fragmented,
we're all so overwhelmed. I think coming back to yourself
and getting clear about what your values are what is
important to you, because a huge thing I also see
is because we're so overwhelmed, we end up taking on
all this responsibility for things we don't have control over,
(24:53):
and then we neglect the things in our life that
we do have control over. I'll give you an example.
I'm a pa I have a two and a half
year old. I am bombarded all the time with parenting
content that makes me feel as the one wrong thing
will ruin my child. So it is very easy to
get caught up in all these things I have to
(25:14):
do and if I'm not doing this, and I'm not
doing that, and then we don't read the parenting book
that we have, or we don't implement and practice the
things that we already decided or know, We don't go
back to our values because we're just constantly seeking the
next solution, the next magic fix, the next thing. It
feels better a lot of times to research than to
(25:36):
actually put into practice what we know. But as a result,
if we're only looking externally, if we're only collecting more information,
we're just going to get more overwhelmed and not actually
make a difference where.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
We can Oh, gosh, yes, that's so important, because it
is I see the parenting content. I don't even have kids,
and I'm overwhelmed. What plays a role in me being
like do I want? I can't because I'm a little
not sure I can handle all of this even though
I have full Well, no, I'm a great adult and
I'm capable. Yeah, it's crazy that the little seeds it's
(26:13):
planting to really just push us in one direction or another.
I think there's also a piece to this too where
I would.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Love for you to share.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I do not know how the heck to really have
to give this advice. Yeah, but take it as somebody
who's on social media and they're really trying to understand
what they're consuming, and they're trying to be this person
and is having a little bit more discernment with things,
and they're trying to understand that things aren't always meant
(26:46):
for them. What is that advice that you're trying to
give them or maybe tools you're trying to give them
to work through this particular day and age this moment
in time where they're faced with these two.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Choices, if you will. I think one thing to do
is when you see advice that you think is good
and you want to apply, I would ask yourself, what
is the nuance here? What might be missing from this?
How can I, even if you love it, how can
I maybe do this in not the extreme way that
(27:20):
someone's talking about it. Because even if there is a
nuance to something, we tend to as humans take it
to the extreme. We then see things in the extreme.
Our mental health often dictates how we take something on.
So we're already pretty towards the more extreme end of
things anyway, So checking in and asking yourself, is there
(27:43):
another way I can look at this? What might the
nuance be that's missing? How can I implement this ten percent?
Instead of the big issue I see as people want
overnight change, they want to hack, they want a secret,
they want their life to be totally for an overnight,
and then they try to do something it is completely
(28:04):
unrealistic for them, and then they end up feeling like
a failure and giving up and doing nothing. Compared to right,
I'll give an example of the circadian rhythm walks that
people love to talk about online. Right. Instead of being like, Okay,
every morning as the sun comes up, I must be
outside for at least twenty minutes every single day, it's
(28:27):
like Okay, could you just try to go outside once
a day and look at the sun? No? Really, because
honestly that's hard.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, So again, like, can we find the small what
is the smallest step possible you can take towards that,
and let's be consistent with that.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
First.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
This is such a very especially right now and happening
in my life. I had gone through some major health
problems and I had some really bad long COVID and
so I finally got to this point where I had
to really take some drastic measures to get better. And
it's so crazy because I've been documenting it, not because
I feel like people should do it. I feel like
it's more information for people who might be struggling with
(29:09):
the chronic health problems and don't have answers. But what's
wild about sharing that is I've always had to be
clear of this is my body and this is my experience, Like, yeah,
I need you to understand that your body is going
to be different, and that you're going to have different
things that you need based on your own literal genetics
(29:30):
and blood and all the things that are pumping through
you that I don't have. And it's wild that even
has to come to such a pivotal point that a
stranger has to say it of like, hey, just please
do this for you in the way that's going to
be working for your body. But I wish that I
could remind everybody that for all things, not just the
(29:50):
health that I'm sharing online recently, but like everything I
see online is I take it with a grain of salt.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
It's like a trend.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
If I see something that brings me a lot of
joy and I want to try it, then I'm going
to try it. But if I see it I'm like, oh,
I don't quite think that's for me, or that's going
to look really bad on me, I'm probably not.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Gonna do that. Then I'm not going to do it
just because I saw it online.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
There's so much to this where it's you had mentioned
it and we talk about the bean soup theory. Everything
is not meant for you in a great way, right
because just because something isn't meant for you doesn't mean
something else won't be. There's all of these things out
there that.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
You can find your corner of the internet.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
That is, things that you love and that you like,
and it can be this positive space. So it's like
you were talking about this, and that's what it reminded
me of. Just Yes, we're in a very for you
time where your feet is very for you and they
think they know you. Yeah, you're the one who knows
what you feel, you know what you like, you know
(30:50):
what makes you happy, and the best way to make
sure that's what's in your life is to continue to
like have that autonomy over your life.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Absolutely. I love that example too, because I think that
in this age of everyone telling us what to do,
we forget that it's optional. Like we forget that just
because this worked for someone doesn't mean it will work
for us. We forget that just because someone made something
that isn't for us also doesn't mean that it's harmful
(31:22):
to us or it's leaving us out either. I think
a lot about there's a word in therapy called psychological flexibility,
and it essentially means it's one of the biggest predictors
of good mental health, like your ability to react to things,
to adapt, to think about things differently. All of those
(31:46):
are positively correlated with being mentally well. So I think
a lot about how can we, and I talk to
my clients about this, create more psychological flexibility for us
especially in a world that's against it, and some of
those things you can do are purposely exposing yourself to
things that you don't necessarily agree with or are different.
(32:08):
It doesn't even need to be like rage baiting either,
because I think that's what we think of. But just
like someone who has a totally different perspective than you,
who lives in a different place, who has different ideas,
engage with that, get curious about how that person came
to be and how their perspective is shaped when you're
(32:29):
like when you're frustrated with someone or a situation, like
starting to practice. I love giving my clients an assignment
of So often we have an assessment about a situation
and we don't think about what other possibilities there are.
But just because someone did something and we think that
they did it for X Y reason doesn't mean there
(32:52):
aren't other reasons at play. So purposefully trying to think
of what is another way could interpret their behavior. What
is the most generous way, what is the least generous way?
What is the middle way? Like practicing like I think
of it in terms of my brain, like practicing moving
your brain around a situation. To just develop that skill
(33:16):
of recognizing that you have a perspective, but you are
not your perspective, right, you have one, but that is
not you. It is not fixed.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
And other people have different perspectives too. Oh my gosh,
that's so important when you were not your perspective. I'm like,
oh my gosh. Yeah, because I mind you. We can
have this whole conversation. And I know full well that
I have been guilty of doing so many of these
different things, right, I've gotten caught up in it. I've
made the mistakes. But it's interesting to hear you talk
(33:48):
about that flexibility, this mindset of that because way back
when I was in college, my freshman year and I
was studying leadership. I remember this class so vividly. Our
professor made us all sit in a circle. We were
all of different cultures, different nationalities, different beliefs, different views,
and we had to talk about the things that you
(34:10):
don't want to talk about, right. We had to talk
about these very divisive topics, and we were all different.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
We all had so many different opinions.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
But when we left that room, it's not like we
were mad at each other or we hated each other.
It was like we actually really loved the experience that
we had because we came away with different things than
when we entered that room. And what you're talking about
reminds me of that, and it's something I wish everybody
could experience in their lifetime. It's just this constant realization
(34:42):
that there's so much out there in the world that
we don't know or we've never had experience with that
it can only help you by just being a little
bit more to your saying flexible, I've always called it
like this openness.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Of just knowing.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
It's like knowing you don't know everything, but more than that,
it's being open to the idea that it can shift
and change and mold. And that's exactly what you're talking about.
And I just I wish that more people could practice
that in everyday life. And I know that's hard because
you don't have a classroom full of people.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
To do that with than everyday life.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
But so if somebody is wanting to do this more
flexibility mindset, what would you encourage them to do. Hopefully
some are going to therapy and working through this with
the help of somebody, but if they're just practicing in
an everyday life, what are some questions they should be
asking themselves or maybe some things they can do, because
social media is a little bit hard to do that
(35:37):
with because it can be pretty a hostile when you're
trying to create that environment. Yeah, so maybe in real life,
I guess would be some better examples.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I think you could start with just getting curious
like the people in your life. I think that we
assume we know everything about everyone that's close to us.
And I guarantee you people in your life have stories,
things to tell you in knowledge that you don't know
that they have that would be interesting to you. So yeah,
(36:07):
I think you could start there. I think you could
talk to your parents or your friends, your partners. When
someone starts talking about something, start asking more why questions,
Start just like acting like a scientist and getting really
curious about why they came up with this reason, what
their thought process was, how they came to that conclusion.
(36:31):
And I think that stretching your mind in different ways
or reading I think too, is a really underrated way
to do this. We all read so many nonfiction books,
I think these days, which is great, but a really
great way to get into someone else's head and really
be immersed is right by reading fiction and reading like
(36:53):
first person fiction. When you're in their brain you understand,
especially a really great book, and it is really practicing
a skill of realizing that your perspective is not the
only one and isn't even you right, because you can
then be this other person as you are in their
world by reading, for example, very much. So.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
It's also the other thing where I feel like traveling
should be free because it's such an educational experience. You
can learn so much about just so many other things,
and it really gives you perspective.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
It's almost like it's so expensive.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Because they don't want us to realize that we can
learn all that the conspiracy theory that I'll stick with
in my head, but I just love talking about all
of this with you. Not to hit the nail on
the head, but like it is so nuanced in social media.
We are in a different day and age than what
we used to be before, and whether we want to
admit it or not, it's really got a hold on
(37:46):
a lot of our lives. And the best thing we
can do is be having these conversations to just take
a step back and hopefully we can in another way
rewire our brains to do some things differently.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
So I do want to end though on something.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Maybe we didn't get to something that you want to
make sure we talk about, or maybe something inspirational, motivational,
whatever is on your heart right now.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I think that we have really become just consumers and
we need to take the energy and shift the power
back to what does our remembering, what power we do have?
What do you want your relationship with social media to
look like? What do you want your community to look like?
What do you want your relationship with your friends, your
(38:29):
family worth like? Because of how much overwhelm has happened,
because of how the world has shifted, it feels very
much like everything is happening to us, which I completely
understand and relate to as well. But I think the
more we can come back into ourselves, think about our values,
think about what we want to create, and start taking
(38:50):
small action towards that. Even if you're not successful quote
unquote with creating what you want, it feels much better
to be putting your energy or towards that instead of
spinning your wheels about something you don't have a ton
of control over.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Oh yeah, that's a really good place for us to
end on, because it is true and hopefully again this
is something that will at the very least make us
think a little bit more and I'll be a little
bit more paying attention to what's happening and what we're consuming.
So Amanda, thank you for your time, Thanks for coming
on here, and I appreciate you as always. And go
(39:27):
ahead and chaut out your podcast so they can check
that out because we need some more nuance.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yes, so my podcast is called Nuance Needed. It's failable
everywhere you get podcasts. And she is therapy for women
on Instagram. I love following her.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Like I said, she has what I call them substacks,
is just these really long carousels, but they're great.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
They're so informative.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
So if you are wanting to just challenge yourself a
little bit further, it's great content to have.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
So thank you again, Amanda, I appreciate it. Thank you all.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Next week I may do another guest interview because I
have awesome one's ready for you guys. Or I can
do an even deeper dive on social media and share
with you all my experience working in this field aka
digital world for the last ten years and answer some questions.
Let me know what you think because As I always say,
this podcast is for you and I want you all
to have the content that you want. Subscribe to the
(40:17):
podcast because that super helps me out, and go follow
along on social media if you haven't already.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
At take this
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Personally, I'm so happy that you're here and I can't
wait to yap with y'all next week
Personal fuels men, anyone else having the post Turkey family
time blues? I am feeling it this week with the
holidays coming up. I've got a lot of awesome interviews
for you guys, but they're a bit more hodgepodge than series,
so we may have a few mini series over the
next couple of weeks where it may be totally random,
also with your input, hopefully. I love when you guys
(00:36):
share what you want to hear and who you may
want me to have on as a guest. This week's episode,
I wanted to bring back on Amanda White. She's a
therapist and she was on my very first episode of
this podcast. She recently started her own podcast, Nuance Needed
to address the way social media has changed the landscape
for our relationships, mental health, and well everything. I think
you guys are gonna love this conversation. Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
You all may remember Amanda White.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
She was the very first episode that we had of
take this personally many many months ago now.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
But I'm excited to welcome We're back, Amanda. How are you?
Thanks for coming on, I'm good. Thanks so much for
having me. I'm excited to chat with you. Morgan, me too.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Because there's so much life has happened since we last
had you on, and we talked about a whole lot
of things, but honestly, more than anything, social media has
changed drastically in the last two years since we've talked,
and that was kind of the whole reason I brought
you on. So we're going to get into it, but
I want to start with why you created a podcast
(01:42):
that's all about nuance.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I think it's what's missing in the world right I
just feel so frustrated lately with social media. I think
it's just gotten worse and worse over the past couple years.
Where I've been explaining it like it feels like we're
playing this giant game of telephone, and what started as
helpful concepts and important things we were educating people on
(02:08):
has become twisted and misconstrued and we are talking about
something totally different than what we started with. And a
lot of that is because concepts all across the board.
I'm obviously talking about mental health concepts and therapy concepts
but in different categories also have just flattened so much
(02:32):
that it's stripping everything of nuance, and it's like, what
are we even talking about anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Well, And from what I can tell from a lot
of your posts, especially in that mental health field, we're
seeing just a lot of people who don't have background
or knowledge or the even education to be sharing a
lot of topics that they are. And on top of that,
then society is taking these very therapy based terms and
(02:59):
turning the too trends or things that we're doing to
post and make them either look pretty or look worse.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Is what I'm seeing. Is that what you're seeing also, Yes, definitely,
And I think it's because one reason is, like the
public has a very different perception of they collapse therapy
terms you see online and what actual therapy looks like.
And I think that's also because we have a like
(03:26):
the mental health industry is also not super regulated in
terms of like the word therapist is not a protected word.
Anyone can call themselves a therapist, even if they are
not licensed, even if they don't have training. Yeah, I
think that's definitely what I've been seeing. Everyone is a
coach or teaching a course now and nothing again, Like,
(03:49):
there are some really great coaches out there, but I
think it's really confusing for the average person to understand
what do I do. What do I pay attention to?
It's like there's so much information. It's I feel like
this is the problem with our world right now. Like
I always think about the analogy of TV and how
there is more TV options right than ever we could
(04:10):
have imagined, and yet all of us sit on our
couches at the end of the day and just scroll
through options and then end up just watching the same
thing because it's like too many options and so much
bad stuff to sort through. You're so overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, and how do we, like the average person? I'm
somebody who doesn't have a therapy background. I try and
be really conscious of what I'm posting online. It's really
just meant to be for entertainment and people to connect
rather than me really inform unless I feel so strongly
that I have years and years to teach on something,
which I really don't, right, I just have my experience. Yeah, So,
(04:51):
how do we as the average person start to work
through this to understand what we're learning online.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Is actually help versus hurting us. What are we supposed
to do just the normal person in this new space.
I think one of the things is look for people
who do address nuance. Obviously, nuance is going to hide
on the Internet even if someone doesn't mean to. I
post a lot of nuanced things, but my most nuanced
(05:20):
posts don't get views a lot of times. So it
could be easy to just look at some of my
most popular posts and maybe not see the full breadth
of what I'm talking about. But I think just being
a little bit more. And it's so hard now because
right even when we talked, we didn't have this feed
of people who we don't follow who would show up
(05:43):
on our feed. It was it used to be with
Instagram right before the algorithm, it was just logical. But
then after that at least you had to follow someone
to see their stuff, or someone would repost something to
see their stuff, where now you're going to be fed
stuff that you don't necessarily agree with, you don't like,
(06:03):
isn't something you would ever click on, and it's showing
up on your feed. So I think the first step
is before you take anything as the advice or something
to do, I would check out that person's profile. Some
people don't even exist. There are bots, there are now
AI people that are starting to They're not real people
(06:25):
who are having accounts. So I think we have to
start with just not taking everything on as something we
should do or even take seriously. Well.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
And that's what's super crazy too, is we're watching a
day and age of social media where you, like I
have to as someone who is actively on social media.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I am a digital director.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I know exactly what is happening on social media at
all times. But even I, as somebody who's very skilled
and well versed in technology and digital media, have to
do very very deep research to be like, is this
actually true? Or is somebody trying to divide us or
somebody trying to really play to one side of this?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
What is actually happening. There was a story the other day.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I see this ninety one year old woman who's in
a hospital gown in a courtroom and she got arrested
for stealing heart meds for her husband, who's like really ill.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, And I'm.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Sitting here, like looking at this post, completely enraged because
I'm like, yeah, that happens. I'm gonna be mad. This
is a society we shouldn't have. And then I went
to three different places trying to figure out the validity
of this story and it wasn't real. It was ai
And it took me as someone who is very well
(07:43):
versed in digital technology to understand that this was happening,
but my visceral reaction was anger. So it's like it's
doing what it's supposed to do, but nobody takes that
second step to say, wait a minute, is that actually
true before I share that and give my visceral reaction
to what's happening.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah. Absolutely, I feel the same way even with like
therapy content and things like that I see, and yeah, absolutely,
especially with images and videos produced by AI. It is
just a different landscape. You basically can't trust anything without
verifying it these days, which is an insane thing to have.
(08:22):
One of my thoughts about it too, is I interviewed
on my podcast a misinformation researcher who is incredible, and
a big thing he talked about is anytime you do
get that immediate visceral reaction, and you probably know this too, right,
it is telling you something. And often anything that is
creating an extreme reaction like that is way less likely
(08:46):
to be accurate or be representative of what's actually going on.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And it's crazy that we have to be so just
vigilant online of what we're consuming, of what we're making
sure we're spread because we're also the source of things
spreading further. Right, I could have been the source there
to continue sharing that story and made it just that
much worse and spread like wildfires. So we have our
responsibility on this other side, not just of consuming for
(09:15):
the sake of ourselves and our brains and our mental health,
but we also have a responsibility as a consumer to
not be the one who's adding fuel to those fires.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And it sucks. It sucks that we have to do that,
given everything else that we all have to do these days, Like,
it feels very unfair. I think that now we have
to be vigilant online and we have to assume everything
is false. But unfortunately that is the world that we
live in right now.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It absolutely is. And Yeah, to your point, we have
so many things to worry about. It it's really another.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Thing we need to worry about.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Come on, you were talking on your social media. I
know you're doing substack, but doing substack a little bit
also on Instagram where you share these carousel posts of
really getting into deep detail about things. Yeah, what do
you feel like are some of the things that we've
as far as therapy terms that we are just exploding
(10:15):
in the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I think everything is getting I think if we look
at polarization in every arena, I think that's where we are,
and I think what's really I've talked about just and
it's been something I've been seeing a lot with my
clients as well, of just everything is so misconstrued. No
one knows what to do anymore. I think if you
(10:39):
take the word boundaries that was so important is so
important a few years ago, people didn't even really it
wasn't like a common concept, and we've twisted it into
boundaries means I never have to do anything that I
don't want to do, and society starts to break down
(11:00):
when that happens. I've done posts about what do we
owe each other and stuff too, because if every single
person in the world is just like I'm out to
get mine, I'm not inconveniencing myself. I'm not going to
be uncomfortable. Not only does society break down, but it's
not good for our mental health. A lot of my
work as a therapist is always talking about someone's support system,
(11:24):
always talking about who they're connected to. We know that
is so fundamental to our mental health, and I just
am very frustrated by the overcorrect we've done, where we've
taken things such as especially abusive situations, harmful situation. Some
of these phrases really helped women who were people pleasers,
who struggled to say no, and now that is all
(11:47):
drowned out because it's been taken to such an extreme.
I get very concerned about the people who are using
them properly and in good faith, and it drowning that
out because we now just think boundaries means I'm going
to do whatever I want. So when someone tries to
authentically set a boundary, I think people are bristling at
(12:10):
that idea. Yeah, and that's so.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Dangerous, not just in the social media world, but in
our personal relationships, right, because you see things online and
you take them for face value, and then you put
that into.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Your real world, and well.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's going to be a little damaging because you don't
have all of the actual information that you need to
be incorporating.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
That into your real life. And it's super frustrating for me.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
I feel like what this tool came about, right, social
media started as this place for gathering and for community
and to see each other and be connected, and it's
turned into this situation.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Now where it is the source.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Of a lot of our problems instead of the source
for what it was created for. And it's difficult, right
because I believe in evolution, I believe in growing, and
I believe that we should continue to constantly learn and
grow and expand. But this doesn't feel like that. Am
I weird or wrong for feeling that about all of this? No?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I feel like that too. It feels like recently things
have taken a turn and we're like spiraling. I don't know.
The telephone analogy is what just keeps coming back to me.
It's not a growth. It is like a turning inward
of itself, and it's getting too big and misconstrued, and
(13:38):
it's a totally different beast than when it started. I
think we're now coming up with solutions to problems that
were created by social media is creating problems or we're
all disconnected from each other, we're not meeting in real life.
And then we have social media companies that are now
creating solutions to that problem, that are to be online
more and now have AI friends, and at some point
(14:02):
is like a snake eating itself. It is just unsustainable.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Well, because you can offer such a great insight too.
From this other perspective, you're seeing people in real life
clients for therapy work who are dealing real life with
what has come from social media and really blended into.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Our real lives every day.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So what are you seeing from that perspective as a
therapist where you're like, oh my gosh, social media is
just there's something happening here and I'm a little worried
for my clients.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Give me that perspective totally. I think one of the
things I've been seeing is the people who are really
attempting to make friends, are trying to show up, be
in their communities, throw a party, and nobody comes because
it's too much work to go to someone's party, they
don't want to get out of their bubble, they're exhausted
from work, all of those things, and then it creates
(14:57):
this self fulfilling prophecy where if someone puts themselves out
there and has a gathering of inviting people over and
then nobody comes, that person feels bad about themselves and
then they're more likely to retreat also, and then the
other people in their circle then they don't have anything
to go to, and then they're like no one's inviting
me anywhere. It's weird, right, then the whole culture shifts
(15:19):
of what is weird versus what is not. And I
think that's a really good example of some of the
stuff I'm seeing of people just being like, well, I'm
protecting my peace, I'm protecting my mental health, I need
to conserve my energy. I'm not going to push myself
to go to someone's house or do something outside my
comfort zone. And then everyone is negatively impacted and it
(15:42):
reverberates through a whole community. Yeah, gosh, that makes.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Me so sad, right because you just know that's hurting
people's social well being.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
And we're social creatures.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
We're meant to be in gatherings, we're meant to be
around people. I've meant to have these strong foundations of
friendship and relationships. And it's also funny the way that
you mentioned that, because it was something that was sparking
in my head where I often feel like I'm very
level headed, I'm very self aware, but even times when
(16:17):
if I lose a friendship and I've put those boundaries
in place, social media almost makes me feel crazy if
I didn't do it in the right way, or if
I did it in a certain manner, and it's like, wait,
was I wrong for that? But that feels really right
based on my experience and everything that I experienced.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
But social media is making me feel a different way.
So am I right? Are they right? What are we
doing here? Are you seeing that happen too? Yes? Absolutely,
And I think a big part of that also comes
from we're losing the skill of discernment when everything is
very specifically curated for us and we don't see things
(16:58):
that are different from our beliefs or or outside of
the norm, and we're just being reinforced the same things.
And then you add in like rage bait on top
of that, it is difficult for us to remember that
not everything applies to us, not everything is about us.
The being soup theory. Yes, exactly, we can see something
(17:21):
and not take it personally and not react to it.
And I think your example is a good one, because, yeah,
when we have so many especially the way people are
very authoritative online of this is the right way to
set boundaries. People are so black and white online. This
is good, this is bad. This is how you talk
to a friend, this is how you don't And there
is no I try to make my content about how
(17:43):
can I teach you to do something? How can I
teach you the skills to learn what applies to you
versus telling you what applies to you, because that will
go much farther. But yeah, even I fall into it
with health stuff because I'm not as well versed, right,
Obviously I know about physical health and stuff, But I'm like,
am I doing something wrong? Because I don't go on
(18:06):
like a circadium rhythm walk every morning? Would I be better?
Is this the secret? And I think we are so
being taught to look externally for the solutions because never
in history have we been bombarded with so much like
self improvement content, even if you are on social media
(18:29):
and you don't seek that out, Like this goes beyond
just mental health. It's physical health content. It's parenting optimization content,
it's work optimization content, it's whatever your field is, how
to be better at work content. It's so much we
are drowning in it and we don't have time or
(18:51):
the wherewithal to step back and be like is this
too much information? Is this for me? Is this helpful?
Should this apply to my life? And again, like I
think back to even five years ago when we were
on social media and a lot of what we saw
was our friends or maybe some celebrities. It wasn't everyone
(19:14):
telling you what to do. Now everything, every single everyone's
an entrepreneur, so they're all trying to like add value
and create everything. And this is nothing against entrepreneurs, but
the way that it's taught as like, I don't know,
every person is trying to add value, and we make
adding value about influencing someone or telling them what to
(19:37):
do in some way that we lose touch of what
our values are and what actually is important to us. Well.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
And I can even speak to this from the digital perspective.
I know what is happening on social media for people
to do to go viral, to get content seen. People
who are creating content are inc couraged. This is across
the board, right, There's no one platform that is or
isn't doing it.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
It's across the board.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, if you want to be seen, it's like, first
five seconds, you have to say something really catchy. So
when you think of that, everybody who thinks catchy, it's
gonna have to be something that's gonna make you angry.
It's gonna make you feel like you have to be
like told what to do. It's like this, this five
seconds is what's molding our brain because creators are having
(20:26):
to But now we have so many people who have
jobs out of creation, which is beautiful that people are
finding ways to make money, but then their livelihood depends
on it, so then they have to make sure I
have to get the attention in the first five seconds,
which means creating things that may not be exactly what
they want to create, but they're forced to in order
(20:47):
to be seen on a feed. So if truly like
when you find creators that you love, you have to
support them. And when you feel that way and you're like,
this is something I believe in, Like I see a
lot of creators out there who show the messiness of
their home or the things that.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Make it a little bit less esthetically pleasing.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And I'm like, follow them, make sure they're in your
feed and they're part of you, because it's the only
thing that you can actually do as a consumer on
a digital platform to drown out some of that noise
and engage with it. Then it keeps popping up for
you because if you don't, the algorithm is going to
feed you what it thinks is best and what it
thinks is best is stuff that's rage bait, stuff that's
telling you exactly what you should and shouldn't do, what
(21:25):
you should and shouldn't believe. And it's so crazy the
way that we're even teaching the algorithms that that's what
we want because we're consuming it and we're engaging with it.
It's interesting from a digital perspective to watch what's happening
on social media. And it's also funny because I'm somebody
who refuses to do it unless it actually is beneficial
(21:47):
and I'm going to help somebody through it. You're never
gonna see me do something rage baity where I'm like, Okay,
well I'm gonna make you really angry just because I
need to. That's just not who I am. And I
think you have a lot of creators out there who
are also like that. But it's interesting you mentioned that
because I can see it from the actual side of
where it's coming from.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad you brought that up. And yeah,
I think the other component of this is as everything
is becoming so dependent on social media. I think about
the book publishing industry right used to have a lot
of power over the books that were made and ones
that were successful, and now everything has become you have
to have a following to be able to get a
book deal. If you think about news media right as
(22:31):
it's become like decentralized and more independently creators and stuff
like that, we are a lot more independent. Journalists used
to be able to not like, have a lot more
protection over not caring about whether all of their stuff
was seen, and now those people are more dependent on
hooks and act more like creators and things like that too.
(22:53):
So it's wild, it is.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It's really infiltrated and everything it's infiltrated in the music
industry too. That's where we see a lot of talent
coming from is TikTok and Instagram, whether they're actors or
their artists.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
It's such a big part of our lives.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
And it's also why I wanted to have this conversation
because it's not all bad. And again, as somebody who's
on the side of creation and understanding social media, it's
my exact job I do every day. It's not all bad.
It can actually be really good and really useful and important.
But I think what we get back to is that
really tricky word that you had mentioned, which is discernment
(23:31):
and understanding how much of a role we are playing
in our consumption of social media. And it's an important
topic right now more than ever because we just it's
getting really easy to be unaware that we have a
role that we're playing. And it's why I had really
wanted to bring you on because not only were you
creating the Nuance Podcast to really get into the nitty
(23:54):
gritty of a lot of topics that are important, but
it's to bring an awareness to discernment and nuance. Is
there anything you have to share on those as I
say that because I know that's really your bread and
butter right now.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, I agree with you that I think we have
to start seeking out things. I think one of the
things that people could do also in addition to what
you were saying about really being clear about the people
they follow, putting your energy into creators that you like,
into things you want more of, supporting people, I think
also taking stock of what is important to you. Right
(24:29):
like in this attention economy, our attention is so fragmented,
we're all so overwhelmed. I think coming back to yourself
and getting clear about what your values are what is
important to you, because a huge thing I also see
is because we're so overwhelmed, we end up taking on
all this responsibility for things we don't have control over,
(24:53):
and then we neglect the things in our life that
we do have control over. I'll give you an example.
I'm a pa I have a two and a half
year old. I am bombarded all the time with parenting
content that makes me feel as the one wrong thing
will ruin my child. So it is very easy to
get caught up in all these things I have to
(25:14):
do and if I'm not doing this, and I'm not
doing that, and then we don't read the parenting book
that we have, or we don't implement and practice the
things that we already decided or know, We don't go
back to our values because we're just constantly seeking the
next solution, the next magic fix, the next thing. It
feels better a lot of times to research than to
(25:36):
actually put into practice what we know. But as a result,
if we're only looking externally, if we're only collecting more information,
we're just going to get more overwhelmed and not actually
make a difference where.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
We can Oh, gosh, yes, that's so important, because it
is I see the parenting content. I don't even have kids,
and I'm overwhelmed. What plays a role in me being
like do I want? I can't because I'm a little
not sure I can handle all of this even though
I have full Well, no, I'm a great adult and
I'm capable. Yeah, it's crazy that the little seeds it's
(26:13):
planting to really just push us in one direction or another.
I think there's also a piece to this too where
I would.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Love for you to share.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I do not know how the heck to really have
to give this advice. Yeah, but take it as somebody
who's on social media and they're really trying to understand
what they're consuming, and they're trying to be this person
and is having a little bit more discernment with things,
and they're trying to understand that things aren't always meant
(26:46):
for them. What is that advice that you're trying to
give them or maybe tools you're trying to give them
to work through this particular day and age this moment
in time where they're faced with these two.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Choices, if you will. I think one thing to do
is when you see advice that you think is good
and you want to apply, I would ask yourself, what
is the nuance here? What might be missing from this?
How can I, even if you love it, how can
I maybe do this in not the extreme way that
(27:20):
someone's talking about it. Because even if there is a
nuance to something, we tend to as humans take it
to the extreme. We then see things in the extreme.
Our mental health often dictates how we take something on.
So we're already pretty towards the more extreme end of
things anyway, So checking in and asking yourself, is there
(27:43):
another way I can look at this? What might the
nuance be that's missing? How can I implement this ten percent?
Instead of the big issue I see as people want
overnight change, they want to hack, they want a secret,
they want their life to be totally for an overnight,
and then they try to do something it is completely
(28:04):
unrealistic for them, and then they end up feeling like
a failure and giving up and doing nothing. Compared to right,
I'll give an example of the circadian rhythm walks that
people love to talk about online. Right. Instead of being like, Okay,
every morning as the sun comes up, I must be
outside for at least twenty minutes every single day, it's
(28:27):
like Okay, could you just try to go outside once
a day and look at the sun? No? Really, because
honestly that's hard.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, So again, like, can we find the small what
is the smallest step possible you can take towards that,
and let's be consistent with that.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
First.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
This is such a very especially right now and happening
in my life. I had gone through some major health
problems and I had some really bad long COVID and
so I finally got to this point where I had
to really take some drastic measures to get better. And
it's so crazy because I've been documenting it, not because
I feel like people should do it. I feel like
it's more information for people who might be struggling with
(29:09):
the chronic health problems and don't have answers. But what's
wild about sharing that is I've always had to be
clear of this is my body and this is my experience, Like, yeah,
I need you to understand that your body is going
to be different, and that you're going to have different
things that you need based on your own literal genetics
(29:30):
and blood and all the things that are pumping through
you that I don't have. And it's wild that even
has to come to such a pivotal point that a
stranger has to say it of like, hey, just please
do this for you in the way that's going to
be working for your body. But I wish that I
could remind everybody that for all things, not just the
(29:50):
health that I'm sharing online recently, but like everything I
see online is I take it with a grain of salt.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
It's like a trend.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
If I see something that brings me a lot of
joy and I want to try it, then I'm going
to try it. But if I see it I'm like, oh,
I don't quite think that's for me, or that's going
to look really bad on me, I'm probably not.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Gonna do that. Then I'm not going to do it
just because I saw it online.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
There's so much to this where it's you had mentioned
it and we talk about the bean soup theory. Everything
is not meant for you in a great way, right
because just because something isn't meant for you doesn't mean
something else won't be. There's all of these things out
there that.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
You can find your corner of the internet.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
That is, things that you love and that you like,
and it can be this positive space. So it's like
you were talking about this, and that's what it reminded
me of. Just Yes, we're in a very for you
time where your feet is very for you and they
think they know you. Yeah, you're the one who knows
what you feel, you know what you like, you know
(30:50):
what makes you happy, and the best way to make
sure that's what's in your life is to continue to
like have that autonomy over your life.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Absolutely. I love that example too, because I think that
in this age of everyone telling us what to do,
we forget that it's optional. Like we forget that just
because this worked for someone doesn't mean it will work
for us. We forget that just because someone made something
that isn't for us also doesn't mean that it's harmful
(31:22):
to us or it's leaving us out either. I think
a lot about there's a word in therapy called psychological flexibility,
and it essentially means it's one of the biggest predictors
of good mental health, like your ability to react to things,
to adapt, to think about things differently. All of those
(31:46):
are positively correlated with being mentally well. So I think
a lot about how can we, and I talk to
my clients about this, create more psychological flexibility for us
especially in a world that's against it, and some of
those things you can do are purposely exposing yourself to
things that you don't necessarily agree with or are different.
(32:08):
It doesn't even need to be like rage baiting either,
because I think that's what we think of. But just
like someone who has a totally different perspective than you,
who lives in a different place, who has different ideas,
engage with that, get curious about how that person came
to be and how their perspective is shaped when you're
(32:29):
like when you're frustrated with someone or a situation, like
starting to practice. I love giving my clients an assignment
of So often we have an assessment about a situation
and we don't think about what other possibilities there are.
But just because someone did something and we think that
they did it for X Y reason doesn't mean there
(32:52):
aren't other reasons at play. So purposefully trying to think
of what is another way could interpret their behavior. What
is the most generous way, what is the least generous way?
What is the middle way? Like practicing like I think
of it in terms of my brain, like practicing moving
your brain around a situation. To just develop that skill
(33:16):
of recognizing that you have a perspective, but you are
not your perspective, right, you have one, but that is
not you. It is not fixed.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
And other people have different perspectives too. Oh my gosh,
that's so important when you were not your perspective. I'm like,
oh my gosh. Yeah, because I mind you. We can
have this whole conversation. And I know full well that
I have been guilty of doing so many of these
different things, right, I've gotten caught up in it. I've
made the mistakes. But it's interesting to hear you talk
(33:48):
about that flexibility, this mindset of that because way back
when I was in college, my freshman year and I
was studying leadership. I remember this class so vividly. Our
professor made us all sit in a circle. We were
all of different cultures, different nationalities, different beliefs, different views,
and we had to talk about the things that you
(34:10):
don't want to talk about, right. We had to talk
about these very divisive topics, and we were all different.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
We all had so many different opinions.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
But when we left that room, it's not like we
were mad at each other or we hated each other.
It was like we actually really loved the experience that
we had because we came away with different things than
when we entered that room. And what you're talking about
reminds me of that, and it's something I wish everybody
could experience in their lifetime. It's just this constant realization
(34:42):
that there's so much out there in the world that
we don't know or we've never had experience with that
it can only help you by just being a little
bit more to your saying flexible, I've always called it
like this openness.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Of just knowing.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
It's like knowing you don't know everything, but more than that,
it's being open to the idea that it can shift
and change and mold. And that's exactly what you're talking about.
And I just I wish that more people could practice
that in everyday life. And I know that's hard because
you don't have a classroom full of people.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
To do that with than everyday life.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
But so if somebody is wanting to do this more
flexibility mindset, what would you encourage them to do. Hopefully
some are going to therapy and working through this with
the help of somebody, but if they're just practicing in
an everyday life, what are some questions they should be
asking themselves or maybe some things they can do, because
social media is a little bit hard to do that
(35:37):
with because it can be pretty a hostile when you're
trying to create that environment. Yeah, so maybe in real life,
I guess would be some better examples.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I think you could start with just getting curious
like the people in your life. I think that we
assume we know everything about everyone that's close to us.
And I guarantee you people in your life have stories,
things to tell you in knowledge that you don't know
that they have that would be interesting to you. So yeah,
(36:07):
I think you could start there. I think you could
talk to your parents or your friends, your partners. When
someone starts talking about something, start asking more why questions,
Start just like acting like a scientist and getting really
curious about why they came up with this reason, what
their thought process was, how they came to that conclusion.
(36:31):
And I think that stretching your mind in different ways
or reading I think too, is a really underrated way
to do this. We all read so many nonfiction books,
I think these days, which is great, but a really
great way to get into someone else's head and really
be immersed is right by reading fiction and reading like
(36:53):
first person fiction. When you're in their brain you understand,
especially a really great book, and it is really practicing
a skill of realizing that your perspective is not the
only one and isn't even you right, because you can
then be this other person as you are in their
world by reading, for example, very much. So.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
It's also the other thing where I feel like traveling
should be free because it's such an educational experience. You
can learn so much about just so many other things,
and it really gives you perspective.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
It's almost like it's so expensive.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Because they don't want us to realize that we can
learn all that the conspiracy theory that I'll stick with
in my head, but I just love talking about all
of this with you. Not to hit the nail on
the head, but like it is so nuanced in social media.
We are in a different day and age than what
we used to be before, and whether we want to
admit it or not, it's really got a hold on
(37:46):
a lot of our lives. And the best thing we
can do is be having these conversations to just take
a step back and hopefully we can in another way
rewire our brains to do some things differently.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
So I do want to end though on something.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Maybe we didn't get to something that you want to
make sure we talk about, or maybe something inspirational, motivational,
whatever is on your heart right now.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I think that we have really become just consumers and
we need to take the energy and shift the power
back to what does our remembering, what power we do have?
What do you want your relationship with social media to
look like? What do you want your community to look like?
What do you want your relationship with your friends, your
(38:29):
family worth like? Because of how much overwhelm has happened,
because of how the world has shifted, it feels very
much like everything is happening to us, which I completely
understand and relate to as well. But I think the
more we can come back into ourselves, think about our values,
think about what we want to create, and start taking
(38:50):
small action towards that. Even if you're not successful quote
unquote with creating what you want, it feels much better
to be putting your energy or towards that instead of
spinning your wheels about something you don't have a ton
of control over.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Oh yeah, that's a really good place for us to
end on, because it is true and hopefully again this
is something that will at the very least make us
think a little bit more and I'll be a little
bit more paying attention to what's happening and what we're consuming.
So Amanda, thank you for your time, Thanks for coming
on here, and I appreciate you as always. And go
(39:27):
ahead and chaut out your podcast so they can check
that out because we need some more nuance.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yes, so my podcast is called Nuance Needed. It's failable
everywhere you get podcasts. And she is therapy for women
on Instagram. I love following her.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Like I said, she has what I call them substacks,
is just these really long carousels, but they're great.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
They're so informative.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
So if you are wanting to just challenge yourself a
little bit further, it's great content to have.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
So thank you again, Amanda, I appreciate it. Thank you all.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Next week I may do another guest interview because I
have awesome one's ready for you guys. Or I can
do an even deeper dive on social media and share
with you all my experience working in this field aka
digital world for the last ten years and answer some questions.
Let me know what you think because As I always say,
this podcast is for you and I want you all
to have the content that you want. Subscribe to the
(40:17):
podcast because that super helps me out, and go follow
along on social media if you haven't already.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
At take this
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Personally, I'm so happy that you're here and I can't
wait to yap with y'all next week
Host
Morgan Huelsman
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