October 30, 2025 • 38 mins
12th Man Roundtable with HUGH MILLEN & GREGG BELL (Tacoma News Tribune) What are the latest injury updates for the Seahawks and Commanders and how will they impact each team on Sunday night? :30- We are back with more roundtable. How important is the return of Robbie Ouzts? The Seahawks will be going up against Bobby Wagner. :45- We wrap up the roundtable with final thoughts and predictions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Oh, it's eight o'clock here on a third day, and
it is time for our twelfth man roundtable. We have
assembled the best out there to talk to Seahawks football.
We do it every single week. Hugh Millen, our QB
one former NFL quarterback. Don't know if you knew that
about him, Buggy, Uh you mean like the National Football
the National football, highest level, highest level.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
QB quar Yeah, yeah, yeah, listen, I'm gonna start listening.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I don't think he studies much anymore, but at at
the time, yeah, he really really did.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
He just wings it. Uh.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And then we got our Seahawks insider Greg Bell, over
twenty years following the Seattle Seahawks, seems to know a
thing or.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Two about he's been doing it that long. Yeah, yeah,
I'm gonna start listening to him.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
To an army like dedication to his craft. Who would
have thought, Yeah, I know, so we're pretty You listen
long enough, I'll prove you wrong. Just keep listening.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I'll step on enough rags to could change your mind.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
All right, Well, let's do this thing. A lot to
catch up on. We're coming off of a bye week.
We spent last week's roundtable sort of discussing how we
feel about the team, But now this is about looking
forward to the second half of the season. Should have
a healthier roster, but the same can't be said for
the Washington Commanders. On Sunday, Greg, I just update your
(01:34):
reaction to the news about Terry McLaurin being out and
Jade and Daniels practicing yesterday and looking like he's on
track to play Sunday night against the Hawks.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Well, the Seahawks have been preparing all week that Daniels
was going to play. That was the assumption when he
missed the Monday night game against Kansas City. McLarens. That
was news to McDonald yesterday when we told him during
our time talking with him before practice he re injured
his leg in the Kansas City game Monday night, so
he won't play it. Washington's missing both at starting defensive ends.
(02:08):
It's missing it's starting safety. They are not at all
what they were at the NFC Title game last year Philadelphia.
They don't have a running game. Austin Eckler was supposed
to be a big part of their offense and he's
on injured reserve. Offensive lineman on injured reserve. Every team
has injuries, yes, but Washington has not responded to it well.
(02:30):
Their offense only scored seven points even though they drove
into Chiefs territory Monday night. Five of their eight drives
were in Kansas City's end of the field, and they
only had seven points with Marcus Mariota as the quarterback.
Suffice to say, Jane Daniels playing is a big, big
deal in this game. If he wasn't playing, it would
(02:50):
be swinging into Seattle defense's favor. Daniels another run pass
threat who last year as a rookie was just almost
beyond his well, he was beyond his years of reading
defenses and reacting to what was seeing in front of him.
A lot of talk about the virtual reality training he's
had since way back at LSU and how it's got
(03:11):
him seeing defenses. But if you don't have the Rookie
of the Year Heisman Trophy winner who got you the
NFC title game at full strength, that's in Seattle's favor
for sure. So health is as always an NFL, especially
in October November, health the factor in this game for.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Sure, big factor. We'll get to some of the Seahawks
news here in a moment as well. But before we
get off the topic of Jaden Daniels, let's ask our
QB one what a year he had? Is a rookie
hasn't quite worked as well here in his sophomore campaign.
What do you see in Jadeen Daniels Hugh that keeps
defensive coordinators up at night.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Well, he's a beautiful athlete and maybe maybe second to
Lamar Jackson in terms of speed and long long strikeability
from the quarterback position. I think he has a very
fluid passing motion, much much better than Lamar Jackson's. To
my eye, I think he has more velocity. I think
(04:06):
it's just more effortless. But you know, I think there's
a really important thought that I have about the commanders
that I'll try and share quickly. So I'm on this
thirty third team that think tank and we zoom every week.
And there's a guy named Mike Giddings who is the
president of Pro Scout. They consult to the NFL. They
(04:29):
don't have websites for us to jump. They can sel
to the NFL. And he picked it up from his dad,
who they like was They were hired by Paul Brown
and Don Shulan. What have you and as as as
it was stated they have like actuarial tables. They go
so far back and they have this when they advise teams.
(04:52):
He says, you want to be a playoff team, you
have to be below twenty strikes, and strikes are generally
acquired by aging players, declining players x number of injuries. Well,
the Seahawks had seventeen strikes, so they were in good
in good position. He had the Commanders as a declining team.
You might have thought, hey, they're on the rise with
(05:14):
jayde Daniels. He had the Commanders as a declining team.
They had forty four strikes wow, entering this season. And
you know it's not just the defense Von Viller, you
know Bobby Wagner, but you know all the targets. Zach
Ertz is thirty four years old, Chris Moore is thirty
two years old, Terry McLaurin is thirty, he's injured. Austin
(05:34):
Eckler is thirty. So this commander's philosophically, they have said, hey,
we're all in now there, and they've acquired a lot
of veterans. It makes sense to some people, but a
guy that has been advising NFL teams for literally sixty
years in a family business. They say, whoao, whoa. That
(05:55):
is the wrong formula for success. And you know, now
I'm kind of wishing that I taking it to Vegas
because he called this stuff back in the summer. I
think it's there's a lesson there.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
So there's sore, there's some legitimacy. This isn't just the
slow start that they're off to, you know, that might
be representative of the actual team, uh that they are well,
I mean, Jade Daniel is going to be an issue.
But I know a day ago, Greg, I'm I'm on
the airwaves jumping up and down with excitement about seeing
(06:26):
Spoon and Love and Emon War he finally together in
the same secondary. Is that gonna happen? Or not?
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Sit down, Chuck, It's not gonna happen. Ah, you can't
jump up and down. Yeah, Julaians Love had a setback
is what McDonald termed it. In his return from his
hamstring injury. I saw him running around in cleats on
Monday and the practice they had and apparently the setback
was then because he didn't practice yesterday and McDonald said
(06:56):
injured reserve is under consideration for him. They still even
with Wierspoon coming back. He did practice pool yesterday for
the first time since Week four. Even with Witherspoon coming back,
still on Sunday night, with Bob being out, they are
not going to be whole in the secondary, which they
have not been since the fifth play of the year
with Nickamon Worry got hurt. So we're going to see
(07:18):
more at Tai Okada, who at the beginning of the
season when he had they o'catta has had an interesting
season of just growing within the last month and a half.
I wrote a story in the News Tribune this morning
about him and how he's representative of the entire defense plan,
not at all how Mike McDonald planned for this year Ocatta.
At the beginning of the season, when even Worry went
(07:38):
out the game won, Mike McDonald had a plan of
using big Nickel with a safety to combat the San
Francisco run game, and when Emon Worriy went out, he
tried to put o'cada into that role and the forty
nine ers picked on him immediately. We got a first
down with Kittle, They got a touchdown with Kittle on
the third play, and then they tried McDonald tried blitzing
o'cada like he would have even worry and Ocatta was
(08:00):
at five eleven, two hundred pounds just running in the
lineman getting swallowed in effect. Eventually got benched in the
middle of that game, and the Seahawks went more to
what they always had done last year with Witherspoon, which
is a corner to nickel, not big nickel, regular conventional
nickel with Witherspoon inside. Well, then Witherspoon got hurt late
in that game running into Josh Job on Job's interception,
(08:22):
and ever since then they've been shucking and jiving at
nickel and extra safety until even Worri came back a
couple of weeks ago. In the meantime, Ocata has gone
from a big role of a failed nickel to a
starting safety because of Julian Love's injury, and in that
starting safety role he's excelled. His blitzes against Houston got
(08:43):
home for a sack and a half. He hadn't had
a sack in his career in three years last year
week he had the sack and a half. He had
the great play in the end zone, tipping the third
down pass as part of that goal line stand when
it was a two score game with five minutes left.
He is part of McDonald's not going a script for
this defense as well. As they're playing number one in
the NFL against the run, seventh in scoring defense, they
(09:06):
are not playing how McDonald wanted to. He probably knows
these numbers. They're ninety one percent in sub packages on defense,
which is exactly how McDonald intended to play with Emon
Worry and the Gang together, that's number one in the league.
They are seventeen percent in blitz rate, that's the third
lowest in the league. And that is not at all
(09:26):
how he was supposed to play, he said. McDonald said yesterday, frankly,
we had detoured pretty significantly from how I planned to
play schematically this year because of the injuries. And I said,
is pressure rate one of those detours? He said, yes,
he was gonna blitz fifty percent of the time with
Emon Worry and Witherspoon. He's in seventeen percent because he
(09:46):
hasn't had those two guys for eight of the game
so far this season. So they're winning not much like
on offense. This team is winning on defense, not how
they were designed to be this year. We'll see if
Witherspoon comes back, and is the blitz ran a little bit.
It's a little dicey proposition to blitz Jaln Daniels posed
to some other quarterbacks they face.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
All right, so Hugh loves not coming back, but at
least Spoon is what does that mean in your opinion
to the secondary.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Well, I'm very intrigued to see how this plays out,
because if you go back, Witherspoon came out of Illinois,
as you know, at the combine was one hundred and
eighty one pounds. Look, he throws his body around. You
love that about him. But at Illinois he played in
the slot or in the box, you know where all
(10:34):
the big bodies are playing hardball. He was in there
less than seventeen percent, sixteen point eight percent of his snaps.
But now as a Seahawk, last year he was at
sixty five percent in the box. And it just it
begs the question, Hey, yeah, he's a great nickel player,
(10:57):
but right now he's only played two games this year,
So is it more wise to put him outside at corner?
And then emon worry is going to be your nickel?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Right?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
And so now how much dime they played the Sea
X right now at just under eighty eight percent. They're
number one in the NFL in terms of using nickel
five dbs. Their dime use at three and a half
percent is twentieth and that's where you get to the numbers.
Greg just sided. So they may up their use of dime,
(11:30):
which would put Witherspoon in an overhang position down in
the box and Emon Warrior on the other side of that.
But I think that there's going to be a substantial
move to the outside by Witherspoon. That's what I would do.
And you know, given that you have Emon Worry, given
(11:51):
the nickel numbers, and and that's been dictated by by
by health concerns. But I think there's a big philosophical
discussion you have. You had even Warry go to the
combine at sixty three and exactly two hundred and twenty
pounds versus as I mentioned, one hundred and eighty one.
You got to you got two guys, who are you're
thinking about playing nickel one is thirty nine pounds heavier.
(12:14):
That factors in my opinion. And you know we're here,
we're talking about Jaden Daniels being banged up, skinny guy.
We're talking about Witherspoon. Witherspoon getting banged up, skinny guy
like this is the thing, and so I think that
Seattle should address it in that way.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
And we talked about this earlier this week, Chuck. That's
exactly the decision they're going through this week. And because
even Worry has been so good at Nickel, I can't
see them moving them out of that spot. He's gonna
play ninety plus percent of the snaps and it's going
to be inside against the run as the Nickel. If
they're doing what Hugh's saying they should do and put
Witherspoon outside, somebody's got to go, And that to me
(12:51):
is Riek Wollan. So Wolan may get benched, as he
was almost bench before Witherspoon got hurt in week two.
He probably would not have started that Pittsburgh game if
Witherspoon had not missed it. Well, now they may be
mentioned him, and it's because of nick Eman Warry's emergence
inside as Nickel. He's playing a lot closer line of
(13:11):
scrimmage than he did at South Carolina. He talked to
me yesterday about how that has been an adjustment for him.
The action happening quicker, the block's on any more quickly.
But with everything else McDonald and the coaches have thrown
at him, he's past it. I'm with you. I put
Witherspoon outside where he's a natural corner, and put just
stick em and Worry in and played ninety percent nickel.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
And I think an important part of that is that
Emon Warry. I've been very keen to watch when they
play man to man, who is Seattle willing to match
him up against? And I've seen the willing to put
those little slot receivers, you know, you know, oftentimes the
shift of your guys are in the slot where he is.
He's you know, he's a nickel Sam. He he's basically
a Sam linebacker, which is a strong outside linebacker, you know,
(13:56):
in the in the form of a person who's a safety.
So makes him a nickel Sam. In man to man,
if he has to cover a little guy, then if
that's a problem, you're gonna expose it and you can't
play man to man, you can't put him on, and
then that reveals the coverage and what have But they
have been willing. Now he in some cases he's not
as quick in and out of his break but he's
(14:18):
quicker than I thought he would be, and the length
and his catchup speed allows him to play man and
man against those In a quick note on on on
a Kata because we were talking about him, Greg, you
remember when you guys were handicapping who's gonna make the roster?
Was Jerrick Reid or somebody other than Tyle Cotta. He
had that incredible interception in the last game in the preseason,
(14:41):
that one handed interception against the Packers that if it
was Larry Fitzgerald running down the millfield on a post,
you just said, that's a Sports Center Top ten play.
It wasn't so much that play that got our attention
the next series on a on a dual run where
the running back went to the backside in a lot space,
Okata came from the back end and he just came
(15:03):
up like a meteor and just chopped down whoever the
running back was, And I go, WHOA, that is probably
gonna impress the Seahawk coaching staff more than the interception.
I think he made a late run to make this
team kind of a little spotty the first, you know,
regular season game, but he's improved in his performance, so
(15:26):
he's the guy we need to talk about until Julia
in Love gets his hamstring straight round. But I think
it's been an interesting story for him. In twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
He's a guy who was on and off the practice
go out in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four from
Montana State. He's in his third year. He's another guy
McDonald has put up in front of the team and say,
you practice well, you study and know the game plan
you play. Josh Job was like that last year. They
have bettered themselves with examples of that across the two
(15:57):
years that McDonald has been here, and that resonates in
the locker room. If a guy who's been on the
practice squad and not even on it the whole seasons,
on and off of it for two years can be
a starter and accept.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Oh boy, we got a freeze from Greg. I got
a freeze from Greg. All right, we'll try to get
Greg going again.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Go ahead here, Yeah, I can pick up on on. Uh.
Greg is right to mention Okada and Josh Job in
the same category in the sense of of how you
how you approach the game as a professional, and you
come on and you can impress. I do think there's
a distinction to be made in terms of of their
(16:37):
skills set. Like title Kada strikes me as an overchiever,
like you are, You're you're smallest, you don't, you don't,
you don't run great, what have you? The only way
you're gonna make it is if you're smart enough to
be in the right spot and tough. But but there's there,
there's a limited toolbox. Josh Job, on the other hand,
out of Alabama was a top self recruit and you
(17:00):
look at his body style, He's run all the measurables
the youth that Josh Job, that's not an overachiever. That's
a guy that likely you know. And Carl Scott was
his the current defensive secondary coach and defensive past coordinator
he was at Alabama. Carl Scott is a tremendous coach. Like,
(17:24):
there's a reason Josh Job is playing well that goes
beyond just overachieving. He's got a toolbox that is be
fitting an NFL starter in a manner that in my mind, Greg,
if you're back, is different than Ocata, who I think
is an overachiever.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
The parallel is that.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Josh Job came in midstream at the end of training
camp last year after the Eagles waived him and was
not in their plans, and neither was Tyle Kotta for
this season. But you're right, Job is the reason of
large reason why Witherspoon played sixty plus percent of the snaps.
You talked about a nickel last year, because I didn't
want to take Job off the field. Events became a
starter as the third corner. They love Joe McDonald loves Joe.
(18:06):
He loves how he tackles, he loves how he plays
the ball in the air. I think that's why Greek
willing if they stick even Worry in the middle and
keep him a nickel and they put Witherspoon out against
Washington Sunday night, that they will play less of Greek
Willen unless they go dime and then they could keep
all of them on the field, But then you only
have one linebacker. He would be Ernest Jones. And to
(18:27):
be taking Drake Thomas off the field. And Drake Thomas
has had a good season. Another unexpected guy who's earned
his playing time.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Greg Bell, Hugh Millan with us here twelve man roundtable.
It's interesting here we're going to get into the offense.
The return of Robbi hoots in our next segment, But
you brought up skinny guys a little bit earlier. We
were talking about the injuries being a big part of
this game, like they are every single week, and how
much has to go into keeping guys healthy and scouting
(18:58):
four guys that you think it'll be healthy at the
next level. Maybe have to have warning flags around skinny guys,
and and Bucky challenged a little bit of your mathew.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean you sometimes will go the
typical thing is a third offense, a third defense, a
third special teams, And then you say, well, it's actually
more like, you know, how do you pass offensively and
run offensively?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I thought that was a.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Great point, but well, I'm just wondering if it's like, okay,
still to your point, I mean, how do you pass,
how do you run? How do you stop the run?
How do you stop the pass? How do you keep
guys healthy? Shouldn't that be part of the equation you It.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Feels like it's a third, It feels like it's every
bit as valuable you as offense and defense is how
well you keep people?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
He sure, sure, Well, we can have cohesion on this
in the following way. And first of all, I had
credit Don James who said that it's offense defensive special
teams are all a third, I respectfully because I respect
Don James Moore than any man I've ever known in
my life. Sorry, Dad, you may be listening from up there,
(20:05):
but it's not just the truth. But no, no, you
keep working at it. But I think it's it's a
special teams. I think is more like twenty percent. I
think how you run it, how you throw it, how
you defend the run, how you defend the past. I
(20:26):
think I think they're all about twenty percent of the game.
Where injuries, I don't think that they've become a separate category.
I think that how you are, let's say, running the ball,
if you take on injuries, now all of a sudden,
that twenty percent is still twenty percent. You're just not
going to be as good at it because of the injuries.
So we can agree that injuries are going to take
(20:47):
a substantial portion. I just think it eats into your
your your quote, your calculus in each of those phases.
That makes sense, Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah,
I guess that's my way of saying that athletic and strength.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Coaches are more important than kickers and punters, you know,
I Buckett thought about it. I'm actually very honored to
be third on the list of the people that Hugh
Millan respects.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
That also know if he went there, I.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Think Don James's dad and me is how I took
that that was mine?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I think you misinterpreted it, yeah, because I think he
just said he wasn't apologizing to you about not being I.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
First said I had work to do to catch up
to Don James. That's how I took it, didn't Third's good.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I like that, you know, if it helps you sleep
at night.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
It's our twelfth man round, nipping on dad's heels.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Chuck buck Ashley and of course our experts, Greg Bell,
Hugh Millan with us as we talked some Huskies or
not Huskies football, Seahawks football, as we get ready for
Sunday night against the Washington Commanders. Let's look at the
offensive side of the ball. Greg, I'm going to start
you again. Update on Robbie oots availability, how excited Mike
McDonald Clint Kubiak are to have him back, and how
(22:07):
much we might see him play Sunday night.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Well, first can I talked about how excited I am
that Rick Springfield still does concerts. I learned that in
the commercial break. I cannot believe that that guys gets
paid to still performed.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
He was an eighties heart drops.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Eighties heart drop, well, he wasn't worth He wasn't worth
paying in the eighties to watch him, and I can't
believe he's still doing it. Robbie Oots is back from
that I injured reserve. He had ankle injury. They've missed him.
They are in the ten percentile of I formation two
back sets. They were going to be twenty five plus.
(22:43):
Last year. Clint Kubiak of the Saints was a twenty
five percent I formation two back guy. They're at ten
percent right now in twenty one formation to twenty one personnel,
two backs, one tight end. That's not how they were
supposed to play, and that has a contributing factor to
this run game not performing the way at once to
at the beginning and in training camp and in the preseason,
(23:06):
Oops was just clearing dudes out in the lead blocker
with tailbacks, Kenneth Walker's ex Charmoney Fallen, even George Mlani
getting yards behind him two hundred and seventy five pounds
as a fullback is a difference maker. That's why they
drafted him in the fifth round. That's why they converted
him from a college tight end at Alabama. Yesterday, McDonald
(23:27):
said he's got a chance to play. They wouldn't have
brought him back when they did from injured reserve if
they don't think he can jump right in and play.
That's why they waited as long as they did a
couple of weeks past the four week minimum to bring
him back. The bye week helps in this regard, and
I think he's gonna play. I think they're gonna go
more eye formation than they've gone in a month plus
(23:47):
that he hasn't been there. Let's see if that helps
jump start a really sputtering run game and lessens the
need to throw the ball to Jackson Smith and Jigmit
ninety percent of the time to move the ball. Maybe
we're a stating a rookie fullbacks importance, but it's a
piece they haven't had and they planned on having all year.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Are we here? Are we overstating that?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
You know?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I think my numbers are come up a little different
than Greg's. I think some of them are the same.
I'm greg. I've got weeks one through three, Seattle had
sixty four plays with two backs on the field, that
was third in the NFL. And rushes rushes with two backs.
Let's see where we agree and where we might disagree.
(24:30):
Rushes I have sixteen per game, which was number one
in the NFL. That's rush at tamps. But yards per
rush I have the Seahawks in those with oots in
weeks one through three, I've got two point six yards
per rush, seventeenth in the NFL. So they were trying
number one in effort, but you know, mid two point six,
(24:51):
you know, like that's kind of gross, well under three.
But one thing to point out during that time, Darnold
his yards per attempt with two backs on the field
twelve point nine yards per attempt, which you know is
over it right now, is number one in the NFL
at nine point one. So they were getting a lot
(25:12):
of big plays out of that. Look, I feel like
I could write an essay on the I formation. You know,
I have PTSD from running it at University of Washington.
There are things that are really good about it. Now
when you take five eligible receivers, let's just talk philosophically,
if you take two of your five eligible receivers and
(25:35):
put them right behind the quarterback, what routes can they run?
How can they stretch the defense in the passing game
horizontally or laterally. All you can do with a tailback
is run a swing or a check down laid in
the down. If you have split backs and one of
the running backs is offset or both of them, you
can run little Texas routes, which is angle routes over
(25:56):
the middle. You can run option routes. You can run
arrows to the flat where in man to man coverage
you have the threat of running to the inside, so
you have a better chance of getting open outside. If
you run a swing for my formation and man and man,
that's a really easy cover. The linebacker just runs out there.
So and I could go on more. It's a really
good formation. It's the following on first and on neutral downs.
(26:21):
If you go play action, you're more likely to induce
a single hike. That's cover three, cover one, and you
can get man and man opportunities outside. But but look,
he had that unbelievable block against the Steelers block two
guys on one play. Uh. But but I think that
(26:42):
there's a disappointment in how they rush with oots. So
I think it's I think it's yet to be determined
his impact. So I don't know, maybe you have a
different I'm going off the NFL stat portal and and
I just don't think there's numbers to support that Utz's
presence is going to all of a sudden triggered the
running game. Maybe it will, but it didn't in weeks
(27:03):
one through three. Well, let's look to the Commander's defensive
side of the ball. Somebody that Robbie Eats might have
to block is somebody we know really well, and that
is Bobby Wagner. I'll flip it back to you first
on this one, Hugh, because I remember his last year
as a Sea Hawk. You were wondering if he was,
you know, losing that step that is so coveted in
(27:24):
the National Football League.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
And here he is now several years later, Yeah, still
tackling fools. What kind of player do you still see
on the Commander's side from our beloved number fifty four.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, I love Bobby Wagner as a Sea Hawk. You know,
he's one of my favorite of all time. And by
the way, in my opinion, he is the most accomplished
Seahawk in a Seahawk uniform in the history of the franchise.
Walter Jones had had nine Pro Bowls, the same number
as Bobby as a Sea Hawk, but Walter Jones at
(27:59):
four for Team All Pros, Bobby had six. Largent had
seven Pro Bowls, just one First Team All Pro. So
you know, we can go on on the rest. He's
the most decorated Seahawk of all time. But in his
later years, greg I thought he was catching blocks as
opposed to taking on. And there's a stat that I'm
(28:20):
about to cite that perfectly illustrates this, and the NFL
calls it yards per tackle. You hover over your mouse
over there and it gives you a definition quote. I'm
gonna read it the way it says average offensive yards
gain when player made the tackle end quote. In twenty
thirteen and fourteen, those are the Super Bowl years Bobby Wagner,
(28:42):
when he on his tackles, they averaged four point three
yards gain. That was of all middle linebackers with a
combined one hundred and fifty tackles in those two years.
Bobby Wagger was number one in that Remember that number,
Bucky four point three. His last four years with the Seahawks,
(29:05):
he averaged it was six point three, and specifically in
twenty nineteen. In twenty nineteen, Bobby Wagner led the NFL
in tackles at one hundred and fifty nine, but that
stat yards per tackle was six point nine. Imagine a
running back who who you know had six point nine
(29:27):
and falls to four point three or was four point
three and goes to six point nine. That's a significant jump.
That's the difference between Bobby Wagner in the Super Bowl
years to Bobby Wagner late who was still making tackles,
but they were not nearly as impactful.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Right, Well, he's still in the middle of dan Quinn's defense,
and as long as dan Quin's the coach looks like
he's gonna be there, he is. He has been victimized
in the past game, as has Washington's defense across the hole,
and that that's where you would go if you're gonna
go at Bobby Wagner. He never comes off the field.
(30:03):
I mentioned he played one hundred percent of the snaps
Monday night. If you're gonna do it, you're gonna send
receivers at him and try to see if he can
stay with them horizontally and vertically. They had the Seahawks
have options to do that Arroyo Barner and come to
mine in particular, crossing routes and Smith and Jigbins and
Cup have done a lot of so far this season.
(30:23):
They will send that Bobby Wagner's way. He's second in
the NFL and tackles. I don't have the yards per
tackle ahead of me right now.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Over the last two years, he's so he's gotten better. Yeah,
he's better than his his last year's with Seattle.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
I will tell you that he is probably exceeded by
two years his own expectations on how long he was
going to play. When he came back to Seattle, and
I talked to him after that one RAMS season, it
seemed like that was coming back to finish his career
with Seattle. And then dan Quinn gets the head coaching
job at Washington and I mentioned on the show earlier
this week, dan Quinn is really close and vice versa
(31:03):
with Bobby Wagner, and they spent a lot of Wagner's
formative years in the early twenty tens together in meetings
and in sidelines and in games. So Quinn has an
affinity for Wagner, probably more than any other head coach
that's not named Pete Carroll in the NFL. That's why
Wagner went to the East Coast. Incidentally, Mike McDonald tried
(31:25):
to get him on the Baltimore Ravens the year that
he went to the Rams. They had a visit in
Baltimore at Owings Mills, at the facility outside Baltimore the
Ravens had there and McDonald said he was blown away.
He said that there was a gravitas to the visit
of Bobby Wagner, a future Hall of Famer with a
first year, thirty four year old offense defensive coordinator at
(31:48):
the time, and he said he was an off and
at the time, Wagner said he didn't want to go
to the East coast, in a native California from the
Inland Empire, had always played his career on the West
Coast and that's why he signed with his hometown Rams,
with team he grew up following instead of signing with Baltimore. Then,
once dan Qui gets the job, he didn't mind moving
the East to Washington. Why he's there, but he's going
(32:08):
to be thirty six next year, and yet he's still
playing one hundred percent of the snaps. And whether his
production and yards and tackles have gone down, he's still
playing a car crash position at age thirty five and
a half in his fourteenth year, at one hundred percent
of the snaps. It impresses me anyway. I thought he
(32:31):
was going to be done after that year in Seattle.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Well, if he plays one more season, he's going to
retire as the old time tackler in NFL history, who
will lead the National Football League's history in tackles if
he decides to suit up again next season. All right,
coming up next, we'll wrap up our twelfth Man Round
Table with some keys, some predictions, and huge final thoughts.
Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM, Final segment, twelfth
(32:54):
Man Round Table right here on checking Box Sports Radio
ninety three point three kjr FM. Humel, Greg Bell, we'll
get their final thoughts here, Greg, I jump right to you.
What kind of game we're gonna be watching on Sunday?
What kind of result we're gonna see.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
I think it's gonna be something of a shootout. I
think the Seahawks are gonna score a lot of points.
You look at Washington, they're twenty seventh in total defense,
twenty second against the run, twenty first against their total points,
twenty sixth against the pass. This could be another Jackson
Smith and Jigbiday on Sunday Night. The mitigating factor is
(33:32):
that could keep Washington close and maybe even lose the
game for Seattle. The ones that are common in all games,
and that's turnovers. Seattle is even though they're five and two,
they're minus four in turnover March in this season. Washington's
minus five. I'm gonna rattle off the teams that are
minus four or worse in turnover marchs in Minnesota, the Giants,
(33:53):
the Titans, the Panthers, the Raiders, the Dolphins, the forty
nine Ers, the Commanders, the Ravens, and the Jets, and
the Seahawks. Only the Seahawks and the forty nine Ers
are winning teams that are turning the ball over at
the rate like the Seahawks are without getting as many takeaways.
That can't last. McDonald's had a big focus on that.
Donald at times has been careless with the ball, thinks, sack,
(34:15):
fumble in the end zone against Houston. That can't happen.
He turns the ball over in the red zone a
few times. That cost him the couple games, including San
Francisco in Week one. So they're not perfect. Yes, Donald
has been great, but he's not perfect. He's got to
protect the ball better. If he protects the ball. On
(34:35):
Sunday night, Seahawks win like twenty seven to seventeen because
there are just so many problems in Washington. They're talking
about selling the farm in Washington and trading guys trying
to get draft picks by Tuesday. Wow, as if the
season may be over there.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
All right, good stuff, all right, Hugh. Final thoughts, Where
are we going to go to wrap up the roundtable
here today?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah? To Greg's point there, the Commanders are the oldest
team in the n FELL, the only team with an
average age over twenty eight and by the way, Seattle
is fifth youngest, the Packers are the number one youngest.
But just to I would say some concerns for me
that I hope Seattle cleans up. If Greg's right and
it's a shootout. Pressures quarterback pressures that is comprised of
(35:21):
the sum of quarterback hits, hurries and sacks. The Sea
Hawk pressure rate the percentage of passes that the Seahawk
defense produces a pressure. In quarters one, two, and three,
the Seahawks are second in the NFL at pressure rate.
In the fourth quarter, they're twenty second. Greg. Greg and
(35:43):
I were texting there in the break. I was asking
about Derek Hall, whether you know not that Derek Hall
is going to be a big factor. But he allows
a better rotation so that the seacok defenders aren't gased.
I think there may be as rush or defensive lineman.
I'm short in that regard. And then and then the
(36:04):
other the other thought I have is Okay, Terry McLaurin
is out, but he's only played two games again over
thirty years old, so so it's it's a familiar foe.
Deebo Samuel is by far the number one guy. They've
got thirty four attempts with him, there's one hundred and
two passer rating. When you target him, he's more in
the slot than he is outside. When he's outside, he's
(36:27):
more to the Seahawks defense's left side. Who's ever playing
left corner? Zach Ertz is next, but but Jalen Lynn.
You go from thirty four targets Deebo Samuel. The next
closest receiver is Jalen Lynn at fourteen, well under half, right,
So so I think stop stop some guys that we
(36:47):
If you're a football fan, you know a lot about
Deebo Samuel, certainly in these parts, and and and zach Kertz.
And and final thought on zach Ertz because there's one
hundred and nineteen passer rating when throwing to him. The
Seahawks defense against tight ends, oh do I have it?
They are twenty fifth in terms of past success past
(37:13):
defense success. And that's a matrix according to the yards
gained on first, second, or third down. But whatever, they've
had their troubles with tight ends. Zach Ertz is a
guy that they'll have to be at tending to.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
All right, guys, real quick speak, excuse me speaking of
Derek Hall. They need to get more out of boy
Mafey office of Derek Hall. They haven't gotten enough production
out of mafe There's some an like numbers out there
that says one of the top outside linebackers and I
haven't seen it. They need him to pressure the quarterback
when they need him to tackle in space better. He
(37:47):
could be traded by Tuesday. He's someone with value still
in his rookie contract that would come cheaply, that would
give the Seahawks back a return much more than Rik
Woolan would at this point in my mind, that's a
got to look at before Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Excellent, John Met, Thank you very much, appreciate it. We'll
talk to you again later this week.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Happy week, Thank you, all right.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Hugh Mellon, Greg Bell with us. Our twelve man roundtable
comes to a close. We'll talk to both of those
gentlemen for sure tomorrow Greg at seven o five and
x'es and o's with Hugh Millon at nine o'clock coming up.
Next college basketball season is just four days away. It's
time to check in with coach Sprinkle here this morning,
right here on Chuck and Buck Sports Radio ninety three
point three KJRFM.
Oh, it's eight o'clock here on a third day, and
it is time for our twelfth man roundtable. We have
assembled the best out there to talk to Seahawks football.
We do it every single week. Hugh Millen, our QB
one former NFL quarterback. Don't know if you knew that
about him, Buggy, Uh you mean like the National Football
the National football, highest level, highest level.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
QB quar Yeah, yeah, yeah, listen, I'm gonna start listening.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I don't think he studies much anymore, but at at
the time, yeah, he really really did.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
He just wings it. Uh.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And then we got our Seahawks insider Greg Bell, over
twenty years following the Seattle Seahawks, seems to know a
thing or.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Two about he's been doing it that long. Yeah, yeah,
I'm gonna start listening to him.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
To an army like dedication to his craft. Who would
have thought, Yeah, I know, so we're pretty You listen
long enough, I'll prove you wrong. Just keep listening.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I'll step on enough rags to could change your mind.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
All right, Well, let's do this thing. A lot to
catch up on. We're coming off of a bye week.
We spent last week's roundtable sort of discussing how we
feel about the team, But now this is about looking
forward to the second half of the season. Should have
a healthier roster, but the same can't be said for
the Washington Commanders. On Sunday, Greg, I just update your
(01:34):
reaction to the news about Terry McLaurin being out and
Jade and Daniels practicing yesterday and looking like he's on
track to play Sunday night against the Hawks.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Well, the Seahawks have been preparing all week that Daniels
was going to play. That was the assumption when he
missed the Monday night game against Kansas City. McLarens. That
was news to McDonald yesterday when we told him during
our time talking with him before practice he re injured
his leg in the Kansas City game Monday night, so
he won't play it. Washington's missing both at starting defensive ends.
(02:08):
It's missing it's starting safety. They are not at all
what they were at the NFC Title game last year Philadelphia.
They don't have a running game. Austin Eckler was supposed
to be a big part of their offense and he's
on injured reserve. Offensive lineman on injured reserve. Every team
has injuries, yes, but Washington has not responded to it well.
(02:30):
Their offense only scored seven points even though they drove
into Chiefs territory Monday night. Five of their eight drives
were in Kansas City's end of the field, and they
only had seven points with Marcus Mariota as the quarterback.
Suffice to say, Jane Daniels playing is a big, big
deal in this game. If he wasn't playing, it would
(02:50):
be swinging into Seattle defense's favor. Daniels another run pass
threat who last year as a rookie was just almost
beyond his well, he was beyond his years of reading
defenses and reacting to what was seeing in front of him.
A lot of talk about the virtual reality training he's
had since way back at LSU and how it's got
(03:11):
him seeing defenses. But if you don't have the Rookie
of the Year Heisman Trophy winner who got you the
NFC title game at full strength, that's in Seattle's favor
for sure. So health is as always an NFL, especially
in October November, health the factor in this game for.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Sure, big factor. We'll get to some of the Seahawks
news here in a moment as well. But before we
get off the topic of Jaden Daniels, let's ask our
QB one what a year he had? Is a rookie
hasn't quite worked as well here in his sophomore campaign.
What do you see in Jadeen Daniels Hugh that keeps
defensive coordinators up at night.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Well, he's a beautiful athlete and maybe maybe second to
Lamar Jackson in terms of speed and long long strikeability
from the quarterback position. I think he has a very
fluid passing motion, much much better than Lamar Jackson's. To
my eye, I think he has more velocity. I think
(04:06):
it's just more effortless. But you know, I think there's
a really important thought that I have about the commanders
that I'll try and share quickly. So I'm on this
thirty third team that think tank and we zoom every week.
And there's a guy named Mike Giddings who is the
president of Pro Scout. They consult to the NFL. They
(04:29):
don't have websites for us to jump. They can sel
to the NFL. And he picked it up from his dad,
who they like was They were hired by Paul Brown
and Don Shulan. What have you and as as as
it was stated they have like actuarial tables. They go
so far back and they have this when they advise teams.
(04:52):
He says, you want to be a playoff team, you
have to be below twenty strikes, and strikes are generally
acquired by aging players, declining players x number of injuries. Well,
the Seahawks had seventeen strikes, so they were in good
in good position. He had the Commanders as a declining team.
You might have thought, hey, they're on the rise with
(05:14):
jayde Daniels. He had the Commanders as a declining team.
They had forty four strikes wow, entering this season. And
you know it's not just the defense Von Viller, you
know Bobby Wagner, but you know all the targets. Zach
Ertz is thirty four years old, Chris Moore is thirty
two years old, Terry McLaurin is thirty, he's injured. Austin
(05:34):
Eckler is thirty. So this commander's philosophically, they have said, hey,
we're all in now there, and they've acquired a lot
of veterans. It makes sense to some people, but a
guy that has been advising NFL teams for literally sixty
years in a family business. They say, whoao, whoa. That
(05:55):
is the wrong formula for success. And you know, now
I'm kind of wishing that I taking it to Vegas
because he called this stuff back in the summer. I
think it's there's a lesson there.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
So there's sore, there's some legitimacy. This isn't just the
slow start that they're off to, you know, that might
be representative of the actual team, uh that they are well,
I mean, Jade Daniel is going to be an issue.
But I know a day ago, Greg, I'm I'm on
the airwaves jumping up and down with excitement about seeing
(06:26):
Spoon and Love and Emon War he finally together in
the same secondary. Is that gonna happen? Or not?
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Sit down, Chuck, It's not gonna happen. Ah, you can't
jump up and down. Yeah, Julaians Love had a setback
is what McDonald termed it. In his return from his
hamstring injury. I saw him running around in cleats on
Monday and the practice they had and apparently the setback
was then because he didn't practice yesterday and McDonald said
(06:56):
injured reserve is under consideration for him. They still even
with Wierspoon coming back. He did practice pool yesterday for
the first time since Week four. Even with Witherspoon coming back,
still on Sunday night, with Bob being out, they are
not going to be whole in the secondary, which they
have not been since the fifth play of the year
with Nickamon Worry got hurt. So we're going to see
(07:18):
more at Tai Okada, who at the beginning of the
season when he had they o'catta has had an interesting
season of just growing within the last month and a half.
I wrote a story in the News Tribune this morning
about him and how he's representative of the entire defense plan,
not at all how Mike McDonald planned for this year Ocatta.
At the beginning of the season, when even Worry went
(07:38):
out the game won, Mike McDonald had a plan of
using big Nickel with a safety to combat the San
Francisco run game, and when Emon Worriy went out, he
tried to put o'cada into that role and the forty
nine ers picked on him immediately. We got a first
down with Kittle, They got a touchdown with Kittle on
the third play, and then they tried McDonald tried blitzing
o'cada like he would have even worry and Ocatta was
(08:00):
at five eleven, two hundred pounds just running in the
lineman getting swallowed in effect. Eventually got benched in the
middle of that game, and the Seahawks went more to
what they always had done last year with Witherspoon, which
is a corner to nickel, not big nickel, regular conventional
nickel with Witherspoon inside. Well, then Witherspoon got hurt late
in that game running into Josh Job on Job's interception,
(08:22):
and ever since then they've been shucking and jiving at
nickel and extra safety until even Worri came back a
couple of weeks ago. In the meantime, Ocata has gone
from a big role of a failed nickel to a
starting safety because of Julian Love's injury, and in that
starting safety role he's excelled. His blitzes against Houston got
(08:43):
home for a sack and a half. He hadn't had
a sack in his career in three years last year
week he had the sack and a half. He had
the great play in the end zone, tipping the third
down pass as part of that goal line stand when
it was a two score game with five minutes left.
He is part of McDonald's not going a script for
this defense as well. As they're playing number one in
the NFL against the run, seventh in scoring defense, they
(09:06):
are not playing how McDonald wanted to. He probably knows
these numbers. They're ninety one percent in sub packages on defense,
which is exactly how McDonald intended to play with Emon
Worry and the Gang together, that's number one in the league.
They are seventeen percent in blitz rate, that's the third
lowest in the league. And that is not at all
(09:26):
how he was supposed to play, he said. McDonald said yesterday, frankly,
we had detoured pretty significantly from how I planned to
play schematically this year because of the injuries. And I said,
is pressure rate one of those detours? He said, yes,
he was gonna blitz fifty percent of the time with
Emon Worry and Witherspoon. He's in seventeen percent because he
(09:46):
hasn't had those two guys for eight of the game
so far this season. So they're winning not much like
on offense. This team is winning on defense, not how
they were designed to be this year. We'll see if
Witherspoon comes back, and is the blitz ran a little bit.
It's a little dicey proposition to blitz Jaln Daniels posed
to some other quarterbacks they face.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
All right, so Hugh loves not coming back, but at
least Spoon is what does that mean in your opinion
to the secondary.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Well, I'm very intrigued to see how this plays out,
because if you go back, Witherspoon came out of Illinois,
as you know, at the combine was one hundred and
eighty one pounds. Look, he throws his body around. You
love that about him. But at Illinois he played in
the slot or in the box, you know where all
(10:34):
the big bodies are playing hardball. He was in there
less than seventeen percent, sixteen point eight percent of his snaps.
But now as a Seahawk, last year he was at
sixty five percent in the box. And it just it
begs the question, Hey, yeah, he's a great nickel player,
(10:57):
but right now he's only played two games this year,
So is it more wise to put him outside at corner?
And then emon worry is going to be your nickel?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Right?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
And so now how much dime they played the Sea
X right now at just under eighty eight percent. They're
number one in the NFL in terms of using nickel
five dbs. Their dime use at three and a half
percent is twentieth and that's where you get to the numbers.
Greg just sided. So they may up their use of dime,
(11:30):
which would put Witherspoon in an overhang position down in
the box and Emon Warrior on the other side of that.
But I think that there's going to be a substantial
move to the outside by Witherspoon. That's what I would do.
And you know, given that you have Emon Worry, given
(11:51):
the nickel numbers, and and that's been dictated by by
by health concerns. But I think there's a big philosophical
discussion you have. You had even Warry go to the
combine at sixty three and exactly two hundred and twenty
pounds versus as I mentioned, one hundred and eighty one.
You got to you got two guys, who are you're
thinking about playing nickel one is thirty nine pounds heavier.
(12:14):
That factors in my opinion. And you know we're here,
we're talking about Jaden Daniels being banged up, skinny guy.
We're talking about Witherspoon. Witherspoon getting banged up, skinny guy
like this is the thing, and so I think that
Seattle should address it in that way.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
And we talked about this earlier this week, Chuck. That's
exactly the decision they're going through this week. And because
even Worry has been so good at Nickel, I can't
see them moving them out of that spot. He's gonna
play ninety plus percent of the snaps and it's going
to be inside against the run as the Nickel. If
they're doing what Hugh's saying they should do and put
Witherspoon outside, somebody's got to go, And that to me
(12:51):
is Riek Wollan. So Wolan may get benched, as he
was almost bench before Witherspoon got hurt in week two.
He probably would not have started that Pittsburgh game if
Witherspoon had not missed it. Well, now they may be
mentioned him, and it's because of nick Eman Warry's emergence
inside as Nickel. He's playing a lot closer line of
(13:11):
scrimmage than he did at South Carolina. He talked to
me yesterday about how that has been an adjustment for him.
The action happening quicker, the block's on any more quickly.
But with everything else McDonald and the coaches have thrown
at him, he's past it. I'm with you. I put
Witherspoon outside where he's a natural corner, and put just
stick em and Worry in and played ninety percent nickel.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
And I think an important part of that is that
Emon Warry. I've been very keen to watch when they
play man to man, who is Seattle willing to match
him up against? And I've seen the willing to put
those little slot receivers, you know, you know, oftentimes the
shift of your guys are in the slot where he is.
He's you know, he's a nickel Sam. He he's basically
a Sam linebacker, which is a strong outside linebacker, you know,
(13:56):
in the in the form of a person who's a safety.
So makes him a nickel Sam. In man to man,
if he has to cover a little guy, then if
that's a problem, you're gonna expose it and you can't
play man to man, you can't put him on, and
then that reveals the coverage and what have But they
have been willing. Now he in some cases he's not
as quick in and out of his break but he's
(14:18):
quicker than I thought he would be, and the length
and his catchup speed allows him to play man and
man against those In a quick note on on on
a Kata because we were talking about him, Greg, you
remember when you guys were handicapping who's gonna make the roster?
Was Jerrick Reid or somebody other than Tyle Cotta. He
had that incredible interception in the last game in the preseason,
(14:41):
that one handed interception against the Packers that if it
was Larry Fitzgerald running down the millfield on a post,
you just said, that's a Sports Center Top ten play.
It wasn't so much that play that got our attention
the next series on a on a dual run where
the running back went to the backside in a lot space,
Okata came from the back end and he just came
(15:03):
up like a meteor and just chopped down whoever the
running back was, And I go, WHOA, that is probably
gonna impress the Seahawk coaching staff more than the interception.
I think he made a late run to make this
team kind of a little spotty the first, you know,
regular season game, but he's improved in his performance, so
(15:26):
he's the guy we need to talk about until Julia
in Love gets his hamstring straight round. But I think
it's been an interesting story for him. In twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
He's a guy who was on and off the practice
go out in twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four from
Montana State. He's in his third year. He's another guy
McDonald has put up in front of the team and say,
you practice well, you study and know the game plan
you play. Josh Job was like that last year. They
have bettered themselves with examples of that across the two
(15:57):
years that McDonald has been here, and that resonates in
the locker room. If a guy who's been on the
practice squad and not even on it the whole seasons,
on and off of it for two years can be
a starter and accept.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Oh boy, we got a freeze from Greg. I got
a freeze from Greg. All right, we'll try to get
Greg going again.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Go ahead here, Yeah, I can pick up on on. Uh.
Greg is right to mention Okada and Josh Job in
the same category in the sense of of how you
how you approach the game as a professional, and you
come on and you can impress. I do think there's
a distinction to be made in terms of of their
(16:37):
skills set. Like title Kada strikes me as an overchiever,
like you are, You're you're smallest, you don't, you don't,
you don't run great, what have you? The only way
you're gonna make it is if you're smart enough to
be in the right spot and tough. But but there's there,
there's a limited toolbox. Josh Job, on the other hand,
out of Alabama was a top self recruit and you
(17:00):
look at his body style, He's run all the measurables
the youth that Josh Job, that's not an overachiever. That's
a guy that likely you know. And Carl Scott was
his the current defensive secondary coach and defensive past coordinator
he was at Alabama. Carl Scott is a tremendous coach. Like,
(17:24):
there's a reason Josh Job is playing well that goes
beyond just overachieving. He's got a toolbox that is be
fitting an NFL starter in a manner that in my mind, Greg,
if you're back, is different than Ocata, who I think
is an overachiever.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
The parallel is that.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Josh Job came in midstream at the end of training
camp last year after the Eagles waived him and was
not in their plans, and neither was Tyle Kotta for
this season. But you're right, Job is the reason of
large reason why Witherspoon played sixty plus percent of the snaps.
You talked about a nickel last year, because I didn't
want to take Job off the field. Events became a
starter as the third corner. They love Joe McDonald loves Joe.
(18:06):
He loves how he tackles, he loves how he plays
the ball in the air. I think that's why Greek
willing if they stick even Worry in the middle and
keep him a nickel and they put Witherspoon out against
Washington Sunday night, that they will play less of Greek
Willen unless they go dime and then they could keep
all of them on the field, But then you only
have one linebacker. He would be Ernest Jones. And to
(18:27):
be taking Drake Thomas off the field. And Drake Thomas
has had a good season. Another unexpected guy who's earned
his playing time.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Greg Bell, Hugh Millan with us here twelve man roundtable.
It's interesting here we're going to get into the offense.
The return of Robbi hoots in our next segment, But
you brought up skinny guys a little bit earlier. We
were talking about the injuries being a big part of
this game, like they are every single week, and how
much has to go into keeping guys healthy and scouting
(18:58):
four guys that you think it'll be healthy at the
next level. Maybe have to have warning flags around skinny guys,
and and Bucky challenged a little bit of your mathew.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean you sometimes will go the
typical thing is a third offense, a third defense, a
third special teams, And then you say, well, it's actually
more like, you know, how do you pass offensively and
run offensively?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I thought that was a.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Great point, but well, I'm just wondering if it's like, okay,
still to your point, I mean, how do you pass,
how do you run? How do you stop the run?
How do you stop the pass? How do you keep
guys healthy? Shouldn't that be part of the equation you It.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Feels like it's a third, It feels like it's every
bit as valuable you as offense and defense is how
well you keep people?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
He sure, sure, Well, we can have cohesion on this
in the following way. And first of all, I had
credit Don James who said that it's offense defensive special
teams are all a third, I respectfully because I respect
Don James Moore than any man I've ever known in
my life. Sorry, Dad, you may be listening from up there,
(20:05):
but it's not just the truth. But no, no, you
keep working at it. But I think it's it's a
special teams. I think is more like twenty percent. I
think how you run it, how you throw it, how
you defend the run, how you defend the past. I
(20:26):
think I think they're all about twenty percent of the game.
Where injuries, I don't think that they've become a separate category.
I think that how you are, let's say, running the ball,
if you take on injuries, now all of a sudden,
that twenty percent is still twenty percent. You're just not
going to be as good at it because of the injuries.
So we can agree that injuries are going to take
(20:47):
a substantial portion. I just think it eats into your
your your quote, your calculus in each of those phases.
That makes sense, Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah,
I guess that's my way of saying that athletic and strength.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Coaches are more important than kickers and punters, you know,
I Buckett thought about it. I'm actually very honored to
be third on the list of the people that Hugh
Millan respects.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
That also know if he went there, I.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Think Don James's dad and me is how I took
that that was mine?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I think you misinterpreted it, yeah, because I think he
just said he wasn't apologizing to you about not being I.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
First said I had work to do to catch up
to Don James. That's how I took it, didn't Third's good.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I like that, you know, if it helps you sleep
at night.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
It's our twelfth man round, nipping on dad's heels.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Chuck buck Ashley and of course our experts, Greg Bell,
Hugh Millan with us as we talked some Huskies or
not Huskies football, Seahawks football, as we get ready for
Sunday night against the Washington Commanders. Let's look at the
offensive side of the ball. Greg, I'm going to start
you again. Update on Robbie oots availability, how excited Mike
McDonald Clint Kubiak are to have him back, and how
(22:07):
much we might see him play Sunday night.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Well, first can I talked about how excited I am
that Rick Springfield still does concerts. I learned that in
the commercial break. I cannot believe that that guys gets
paid to still performed.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
He was an eighties heart drops.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Eighties heart drop, well, he wasn't worth He wasn't worth
paying in the eighties to watch him, and I can't
believe he's still doing it. Robbie Oots is back from
that I injured reserve. He had ankle injury. They've missed him.
They are in the ten percentile of I formation two
back sets. They were going to be twenty five plus.
(22:43):
Last year. Clint Kubiak of the Saints was a twenty
five percent I formation two back guy. They're at ten
percent right now in twenty one formation to twenty one personnel,
two backs, one tight end. That's not how they were
supposed to play, and that has a contributing factor to
this run game not performing the way at once to
at the beginning and in training camp and in the preseason,
(23:06):
Oops was just clearing dudes out in the lead blocker
with tailbacks, Kenneth Walker's ex Charmoney Fallen, even George Mlani
getting yards behind him two hundred and seventy five pounds
as a fullback is a difference maker. That's why they
drafted him in the fifth round. That's why they converted
him from a college tight end at Alabama. Yesterday, McDonald
(23:27):
said he's got a chance to play. They wouldn't have
brought him back when they did from injured reserve if
they don't think he can jump right in and play.
That's why they waited as long as they did a
couple of weeks past the four week minimum to bring
him back. The bye week helps in this regard, and
I think he's gonna play. I think they're gonna go
more eye formation than they've gone in a month plus
(23:47):
that he hasn't been there. Let's see if that helps
jump start a really sputtering run game and lessens the
need to throw the ball to Jackson Smith and Jigmit
ninety percent of the time to move the ball. Maybe
we're a stating a rookie fullbacks importance, but it's a
piece they haven't had and they planned on having all year.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Are we here? Are we overstating that?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
You know?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I think my numbers are come up a little different
than Greg's. I think some of them are the same.
I'm greg. I've got weeks one through three, Seattle had
sixty four plays with two backs on the field, that
was third in the NFL. And rushes rushes with two backs.
Let's see where we agree and where we might disagree.
(24:30):
Rushes I have sixteen per game, which was number one
in the NFL. That's rush at tamps. But yards per
rush I have the Seahawks in those with oots in
weeks one through three, I've got two point six yards
per rush, seventeenth in the NFL. So they were trying
number one in effort, but you know, mid two point six,
(24:51):
you know, like that's kind of gross, well under three.
But one thing to point out during that time, Darnold
his yards per attempt with two backs on the field
twelve point nine yards per attempt, which you know is
over it right now, is number one in the NFL
at nine point one. So they were getting a lot
(25:12):
of big plays out of that. Look, I feel like
I could write an essay on the I formation. You know,
I have PTSD from running it at University of Washington.
There are things that are really good about it. Now
when you take five eligible receivers, let's just talk philosophically,
if you take two of your five eligible receivers and
(25:35):
put them right behind the quarterback, what routes can they run?
How can they stretch the defense in the passing game
horizontally or laterally. All you can do with a tailback
is run a swing or a check down laid in
the down. If you have split backs and one of
the running backs is offset or both of them, you
can run little Texas routes, which is angle routes over
(25:56):
the middle. You can run option routes. You can run
arrows to the flat where in man to man coverage
you have the threat of running to the inside, so
you have a better chance of getting open outside. If
you run a swing for my formation and man and man,
that's a really easy cover. The linebacker just runs out there.
So and I could go on more. It's a really
good formation. It's the following on first and on neutral downs.
(26:21):
If you go play action, you're more likely to induce
a single hike. That's cover three, cover one, and you
can get man and man opportunities outside. But but look,
he had that unbelievable block against the Steelers block two
guys on one play. Uh. But but I think that
(26:42):
there's a disappointment in how they rush with oots. So
I think it's I think it's yet to be determined
his impact. So I don't know, maybe you have a
different I'm going off the NFL stat portal and and
I just don't think there's numbers to support that Utz's
presence is going to all of a sudden triggered the
running game. Maybe it will, but it didn't in weeks
(27:03):
one through three. Well, let's look to the Commander's defensive
side of the ball. Somebody that Robbie Eats might have
to block is somebody we know really well, and that
is Bobby Wagner. I'll flip it back to you first
on this one, Hugh, because I remember his last year
as a Sea Hawk. You were wondering if he was,
you know, losing that step that is so coveted in
(27:24):
the National Football League.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
And here he is now several years later, Yeah, still
tackling fools. What kind of player do you still see
on the Commander's side from our beloved number fifty four.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, I love Bobby Wagner as a Sea Hawk. You know,
he's one of my favorite of all time. And by
the way, in my opinion, he is the most accomplished
Seahawk in a Seahawk uniform in the history of the franchise.
Walter Jones had had nine Pro Bowls, the same number
as Bobby as a Sea Hawk, but Walter Jones at
(27:59):
four for Team All Pros, Bobby had six. Largent had
seven Pro Bowls, just one First Team All Pro. So
you know, we can go on on the rest. He's
the most decorated Seahawk of all time. But in his
later years, greg I thought he was catching blocks as
opposed to taking on. And there's a stat that I'm
(28:20):
about to cite that perfectly illustrates this, and the NFL
calls it yards per tackle. You hover over your mouse
over there and it gives you a definition quote. I'm
gonna read it the way it says average offensive yards
gain when player made the tackle end quote. In twenty
thirteen and fourteen, those are the Super Bowl years Bobby Wagner,
(28:42):
when he on his tackles, they averaged four point three
yards gain. That was of all middle linebackers with a
combined one hundred and fifty tackles in those two years.
Bobby Wagger was number one in that Remember that number,
Bucky four point three. His last four years with the Seahawks,
(29:05):
he averaged it was six point three, and specifically in
twenty nineteen. In twenty nineteen, Bobby Wagner led the NFL
in tackles at one hundred and fifty nine, but that
stat yards per tackle was six point nine. Imagine a
running back who who you know had six point nine
(29:27):
and falls to four point three or was four point
three and goes to six point nine. That's a significant jump.
That's the difference between Bobby Wagner in the Super Bowl
years to Bobby Wagner late who was still making tackles,
but they were not nearly as impactful.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Right, Well, he's still in the middle of dan Quinn's defense,
and as long as dan Quin's the coach looks like
he's gonna be there, he is. He has been victimized
in the past game, as has Washington's defense across the hole,
and that that's where you would go if you're gonna
go at Bobby Wagner. He never comes off the field.
(30:03):
I mentioned he played one hundred percent of the snaps
Monday night. If you're gonna do it, you're gonna send
receivers at him and try to see if he can
stay with them horizontally and vertically. They had the Seahawks
have options to do that Arroyo Barner and come to
mine in particular, crossing routes and Smith and Jigbins and
Cup have done a lot of so far this season.
(30:23):
They will send that Bobby Wagner's way. He's second in
the NFL and tackles. I don't have the yards per
tackle ahead of me right now.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Over the last two years, he's so he's gotten better. Yeah,
he's better than his his last year's with Seattle.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
I will tell you that he is probably exceeded by
two years his own expectations on how long he was
going to play. When he came back to Seattle, and
I talked to him after that one RAMS season, it
seemed like that was coming back to finish his career
with Seattle. And then dan Quinn gets the head coaching
job at Washington and I mentioned on the show earlier
this week, dan Quinn is really close and vice versa
(31:03):
with Bobby Wagner, and they spent a lot of Wagner's
formative years in the early twenty tens together in meetings
and in sidelines and in games. So Quinn has an
affinity for Wagner, probably more than any other head coach
that's not named Pete Carroll in the NFL. That's why
Wagner went to the East Coast. Incidentally, Mike McDonald tried
(31:25):
to get him on the Baltimore Ravens the year that
he went to the Rams. They had a visit in
Baltimore at Owings Mills, at the facility outside Baltimore the
Ravens had there and McDonald said he was blown away.
He said that there was a gravitas to the visit
of Bobby Wagner, a future Hall of Famer with a
first year, thirty four year old offense defensive coordinator at
(31:48):
the time, and he said he was an off and
at the time, Wagner said he didn't want to go
to the East coast, in a native California from the
Inland Empire, had always played his career on the West
Coast and that's why he signed with his hometown Rams,
with team he grew up following instead of signing with Baltimore. Then,
once dan Qui gets the job, he didn't mind moving
the East to Washington. Why he's there, but he's going
(32:08):
to be thirty six next year, and yet he's still
playing one hundred percent of the snaps. And whether his
production and yards and tackles have gone down, he's still
playing a car crash position at age thirty five and
a half in his fourteenth year, at one hundred percent
of the snaps. It impresses me anyway. I thought he
(32:31):
was going to be done after that year in Seattle.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Well, if he plays one more season, he's going to
retire as the old time tackler in NFL history, who
will lead the National Football League's history in tackles if
he decides to suit up again next season. All right,
coming up next, we'll wrap up our twelfth Man Round
Table with some keys, some predictions, and huge final thoughts.
Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM, Final segment, twelfth
(32:54):
Man Round Table right here on checking Box Sports Radio
ninety three point three kjr FM. Humel, Greg Bell, we'll
get their final thoughts here, Greg, I jump right to you.
What kind of game we're gonna be watching on Sunday?
What kind of result we're gonna see.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
I think it's gonna be something of a shootout. I
think the Seahawks are gonna score a lot of points.
You look at Washington, they're twenty seventh in total defense,
twenty second against the run, twenty first against their total points,
twenty sixth against the pass. This could be another Jackson
Smith and Jigbiday on Sunday Night. The mitigating factor is
(33:32):
that could keep Washington close and maybe even lose the
game for Seattle. The ones that are common in all games,
and that's turnovers. Seattle is even though they're five and two,
they're minus four in turnover March in this season. Washington's
minus five. I'm gonna rattle off the teams that are
minus four or worse in turnover marchs in Minnesota, the Giants,
(33:53):
the Titans, the Panthers, the Raiders, the Dolphins, the forty
nine Ers, the Commanders, the Ravens, and the Jets, and
the Seahawks. Only the Seahawks and the forty nine Ers
are winning teams that are turning the ball over at
the rate like the Seahawks are without getting as many takeaways.
That can't last. McDonald's had a big focus on that.
Donald at times has been careless with the ball, thinks, sack,
(34:15):
fumble in the end zone against Houston. That can't happen.
He turns the ball over in the red zone a
few times. That cost him the couple games, including San
Francisco in Week one. So they're not perfect. Yes, Donald
has been great, but he's not perfect. He's got to
protect the ball better. If he protects the ball. On
(34:35):
Sunday night, Seahawks win like twenty seven to seventeen because
there are just so many problems in Washington. They're talking
about selling the farm in Washington and trading guys trying
to get draft picks by Tuesday. Wow, as if the
season may be over there.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
All right, good stuff, all right, Hugh. Final thoughts, Where
are we going to go to wrap up the roundtable
here today?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah? To Greg's point there, the Commanders are the oldest
team in the n FELL, the only team with an
average age over twenty eight and by the way, Seattle
is fifth youngest, the Packers are the number one youngest.
But just to I would say some concerns for me
that I hope Seattle cleans up. If Greg's right and
it's a shootout. Pressures quarterback pressures that is comprised of
(35:21):
the sum of quarterback hits, hurries and sacks. The Sea
Hawk pressure rate the percentage of passes that the Seahawk
defense produces a pressure. In quarters one, two, and three,
the Seahawks are second in the NFL at pressure rate.
In the fourth quarter, they're twenty second. Greg. Greg and
(35:43):
I were texting there in the break. I was asking
about Derek Hall, whether you know not that Derek Hall
is going to be a big factor. But he allows
a better rotation so that the seacok defenders aren't gased.
I think there may be as rush or defensive lineman.
I'm short in that regard. And then and then the
(36:04):
other the other thought I have is Okay, Terry McLaurin
is out, but he's only played two games again over
thirty years old, so so it's it's a familiar foe.
Deebo Samuel is by far the number one guy. They've
got thirty four attempts with him, there's one hundred and
two passer rating. When you target him, he's more in
the slot than he is outside. When he's outside, he's
(36:27):
more to the Seahawks defense's left side. Who's ever playing
left corner? Zach Ertz is next, but but Jalen Lynn.
You go from thirty four targets Deebo Samuel. The next
closest receiver is Jalen Lynn at fourteen, well under half, right,
So so I think stop stop some guys that we
(36:47):
If you're a football fan, you know a lot about
Deebo Samuel, certainly in these parts, and and and zach Kertz.
And and final thought on zach Ertz because there's one
hundred and nineteen passer rating when throwing to him. The
Seahawks defense against tight ends, oh do I have it?
They are twenty fifth in terms of past success past
(37:13):
defense success. And that's a matrix according to the yards
gained on first, second, or third down. But whatever, they've
had their troubles with tight ends. Zach Ertz is a
guy that they'll have to be at tending to.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
All right, guys, real quick speak, excuse me speaking of
Derek Hall. They need to get more out of boy
Mafey office of Derek Hall. They haven't gotten enough production
out of mafe There's some an like numbers out there
that says one of the top outside linebackers and I
haven't seen it. They need him to pressure the quarterback
when they need him to tackle in space better. He
(37:47):
could be traded by Tuesday. He's someone with value still
in his rookie contract that would come cheaply, that would
give the Seahawks back a return much more than Rik
Woolan would at this point in my mind, that's a
got to look at before Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Excellent, John Met, Thank you very much, appreciate it. We'll
talk to you again later this week.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Happy week, Thank you, all right.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Hugh Mellon, Greg Bell with us. Our twelve man roundtable
comes to a close. We'll talk to both of those
gentlemen for sure tomorrow Greg at seven o five and
x'es and o's with Hugh Millon at nine o'clock coming up.
Next college basketball season is just four days away. It's
time to check in with coach Sprinkle here this morning,
right here on Chuck and Buck Sports Radio ninety three
point three KJRFM.
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