February 25, 2026 • 53 mins
Grace Young has been called "the poet laureate of the wok" by the esteemed food writer, Betty Fussell. An award-winning cookbook author, culinary historian, and filmmaker, Young has dedicated her life's work to advocate and uphold the value of Chinese-American culture and cuisine through her cookbooks, classes and award-winning video series. She is recipient of The Julia Child Award (2022), The James Beard Foundation Humanitarian Award (2022) and The IACP Lifetime Achievement Award (2021).
Fearless Fabulous You is broadcast live Wednesdays at 12 Noon ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
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Fearless Fabulous You is broadcast live Wednesdays at 12 Noon ET on W4WN Radio - Women 4 Women Network (www.w4wn.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Fearless Fabulous You Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:22):
W four WN Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hello and welcome to Fearless Fabulous You. I am your host,
Melanie Young, and I am so glad you're joining me
live on the Women for Women Network that's w FOURWN
dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I am delighted to have as our guest today Grace Young,
who has been called the Poet Laureate of the Walk
by food historian Betty Fussel. She is an incredible woman
when it comes to advocacy to support the Asian American
communities and help educate all of us on the pleasures
(01:12):
of Chinese cooking. Her story is phenomenal and we're going
to discuss it today along with Chinese New Year, which
is happening currently in twenty twenty two. Grace lives in
New York City and she was born to an amazing
family that came from China. We're going to give her,
let her share her history, and talk about her award
(01:35):
winning books. You're going to learn a lot about how
she cooks with a walk and how you can cook
healthy Chinese cooking at home.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
And we're going to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Her advocacy work so that we all can be better
citizens and support Asian American businesses throughout the United States.
Grace Young, welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Thank you so much. Melanie. I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Well, I have known you for many years. You have
been a guest on the Connected Table Live, I think
about two years ago. We're happy to have you back
to talk to us. First of all, let's share a
little bit about your background and your family.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
So, my mom is born in Hong Kong and raised
in Shanghai. My family is Cantonese and she became an
airline stewardess in the late nineteen forties and was flying
between China and America and met my father in San Francisco,
(02:35):
and that's how she ended up becoming an American citizen. So,
and my father has a very interesting story. He was
actually born in San Francisco's Chinatown in nineteen fourteen, and
his family returned to China when he was just a
little boy, so he was raised in China but came
(02:58):
back when he was in his twenties. So he's an
American born citizen. And they married in nineteen forty nine.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Are they still.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Alive, No, they passed away, but yeah, they lived a
long and happy life in America.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
What are some of your happiest memories with your family?
Speaker 4 (03:19):
I would say they were really obsessed with good food
and eating with such a big part of being with
my parents. My father was a liquor salesman and his
main accounts were in San Francisco's Chinatown, so he was
there every day and he would spot the freshest ingredients.
(03:43):
He would see that the baby bakshoy was being delivered
and you would buy it and so or whatever. You know,
the fresh fish had just been brought into the store.
So my parents never shopped once a week. They really
were shopping every single day. So the concept of fresh,
(04:08):
just picked produce is something that was just so so
much a part of my upbringing. That the quality of
the ingredients and freshness is so important to making great food.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
You know, you're so very lucky to have grown up
in a city like San Francisco, which has a wonderful
China town and it has all these great markets, and
you live in New York where you get this blessing
as well. Not everybody is lucky to do that. I've
been traveling around the country, particularly in the Deep South,
for over a year now, Grace, and there are so
many food deserts out here where you cannot get fresh food.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I know, I know. And even here in New York City,
you know, there are markets that you can go into
American supermarkets where everything is already bundled up in plastic packages,
and I feel like there's locating the produce, right.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yeah, I agree with you. I've been spending a lot,
I mean, particularly here in the South. And I'm not
knocking the South, listeners, I'm a Southern girl from Tennessee,
but it is disheartening to see the fact that a
lot of people are not really eating fresh. Either they're
eating produce that's very old or less than fresh, or
the food is already prepared, so nobody's cooking However, we
(05:24):
are going to talk about cooking Chinese food at home,
particularly because you are the walk therapist. But before we
do that, we are broadcasting during Lunar New Year, which
is Chinese New Year, and I'd like you to share
a little history. Particularly I'm sure you grew up seeing
some amazing celebrations in San Francisco and of course now
in New York, a little bit of the history and
(05:45):
significance and traditions of this important celebration in the culture.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
So this is the most important holiday for the Chinese,
and it is really a cross between our Thanksgiving and
our at Easter. So it's a time to give thanks
and the family always has to go home, but it's
also a time of renewal and rebirth and new beginnings.
(06:16):
And the Chinese really believe that if you do certain things,
you can completely change your fortunes for the coming year.
So the period leading up to the new year is
a time to completely clean your house because you want
that fresh beginning. On the first day of the new year.
(06:39):
You're never supposed to sweep or vacuum, because that would
actually be sweeping your good fortune away. On the first
day of the new year, you don't use knives or
scissors or any sharp object because that would be cutting
away your fortunes. And the celebration goes on for two weeks,
(07:00):
and during that two week period there are very specific
foods that you eat to ensure your good fortunes. So
the traditional meal is on New Year's Eve, but people
families celebrate throughout the two week period. And during this
time it's very important to eat dumplings, specifically the boiled
(07:24):
dumplings that can also be pan fried and become potstickers,
because the Chinese say that the shape of the dumpling
looks like ancient Chinese coins, and especially when you pan
fry potstickers, they look golden, and so they look like money,
so that is a symbol of wealth. Spring rolls are
(07:47):
very popular. Again, they look like a gold in gods,
and so they bring good fortune. Oftentimes, my mother loves
to make a stir fry of chataki mushrooms with ginger
and a little rice wine and a splash of soy
sauce because chataki mushrooms grow very very quickly, and so
(08:12):
that means that your fortunes will grow quickly. But there
are other traditions. Some people eat a sweet and sour dish.
The word for sour sounds like it's a homonym for
the word for grandchild, so that pretends that your family
will be growing. You typically have a steamed, a poached,
(08:33):
or even a pan fried whole fish. My family always
did a steamed sea bass with scallions and ginger, and
the fish has so many important symbolisms, and one of
them is that fish swim in pears, so they represent
(08:55):
marital bliss. You have to have the whole fish, not
fish filet, because that symbolizes a proper beginning and end
to your year. And the word for fish sounds like
the word for wish in Chinese, so it means that
your wishes will come true. So there's a whole list
of all the different foods like clams and scallops represent
(09:20):
your fortunes growing because the shells when they open up
represent a new beginning, and then the shells themselves also
look like ancient Chinese coins.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
A lot of round foods.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Yes, what about noodles. Noodles represent longevity, so that's very
very important.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
We've been eating a lot of dumplings, Grace, just so
you know, just because we'd like to have some more
good fortune in our lives and noodles as well for longevity.
Is there anything that you should not be eating?
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Lots of people are reluctant to eat tofu in the
first few day of the year because tofu is white,
and white is the color of death in Chinese culture.
When you're mourning, you wear white clothing. So there are
people that are superstitious and feel that that's not lucky.
(10:19):
Is there anything else that you shouldn't eat? I have
to think about that one. I'm always thinking pro like, well, that's.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
The next that red is believed to bring good fortune,
and you give children lucky money and red envelopes throughout
the proceedings.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Correct, yes, yeah, So when you go to China this
time of year, there are so many different stores where
you can buy these envelopes, and some of them have
the word double happiness, some have longevity, some have fortune
on the envelope. And this year is the year of
the Tiger, and so uh, it's really beautiful to get
(11:03):
the envelopes that have the different animals on the year.
And my mother and Aunties always carried a stack of
them in their purse and you put you know, you
can put any amount of money in the envelope. They
typically would go to the bank and get fresh dollar
bills really crisp, and put one single bill in each envelope.
(11:23):
And so if they bumped into a child, a friend's
daughter or son, they would be able to hand them
the money immediately and wish them a happy New Year.
And yeah, so as a child, it was always nice
taking a walk through Chinatown with my parents and running
into different friends or aunties and uncles and then receiving
(11:47):
the lucky money.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I think that it sounds like hanaka guilp, you know
when they do that for Hankah. It's kind of it's
really wonderful. You know, the year of the Tiger, So
how does that work? I'm by the way, I think
I'm the year of the bore, But how do the
different years work in the calendar? And what does the
tiger symbolize?
Speaker 4 (12:08):
So the time, so I have to confess to you,
I'm not very informed about Chinese astrology. This is I'm
not about Western astrology. I know what my sign is,
but the year of the tiger is very important. It
is this one is the water tiger, and the tiger,
(12:30):
of course is one of the most powerful animals and
is hardworking and is unafraid and fearless. And I've read
that the water tiger is very good at staying calm
during challenging times. So I feel very positive that this
(12:54):
is going to be a really it's going to be
a turning point for us for starting a new beginning
and really recovering well.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I hope. So here's an interesting fact when I was
doing my research. Grace, Queen Elizabeth, who's celebrating is like
a diamond jubilee, was born in the year of the Tiger,
and goodness knows, her majesty has gone through a lot
of challenges during her reign on the throne of the
United Kingdom. So she was born on the flip side.
So is Marilyn Monroe. So that's kind of an interesting comparison.
(13:26):
I'm born in the year Let's fire her.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Yeah, I made it sort of like American astrology, right,
sometimes when you read your reading. Of course, it could
apply to anybody. But I do feel that the tiger,
for sure, in Chinese astrology is considered a coveted animal
and it is a powerful sign to be born under.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Well, I'd like to talk about being fearless because since
twenty twenty eighth, the start of the COVID nineteen pandemic.
You have been a fearless, entireless advocate for supporting the
Chinese communities and businesses throughout the United States, and I
think that it's important to underscore here on our conversation
(14:14):
today how important it is for all of our listeners
to be aware of why their actions can also help
these often mom and pop businesses. So tell us what
you're doing.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
So all of this, as you said, happened quite by accident.
I am really I was planning on starting a new
cookbook at the beginning of twenty twenty, and I live
in Manhattan and I'm often in Chinatown. And in January
of twenty twenty, before there were any deaths from COVID
in the United States, I was in Chinatown and was
(14:50):
completely stunned that it was empty, and it was a
ghost town and there were hardly any people on the streets.
And normally you're jostling with so many people, and I'm
fighting with the grandma's and the aunties for my produce,
but it was completely empty down I glanced into stores
or restaurants and there were no customers, and it was
(15:12):
the rhetoric of calling COVID the China virus or the
Wuhan virus or Kung flu that made Chinatown throughout the
United States completely empty out. People were afraid to go
Chinatown because of this suggestion that if you went to
Chinatown you would catch COVID, which was absolutely untrue. So
(15:36):
I immediately started doing posts on Instagram about we have
to go down to Chinatown and support these restaurants. And
look look at this produce vendor standing outside on the street,
you know, trying to sell her produce and doesn't have
any customers. And it was the dead of winter in
New York City, so the combination of the weather and
(15:57):
no customers, it was just so many businesses saw their
businesses drop eighty percent. And Chinatown in New York City,
ninety four percent of the businesses are mom and pop shops.
So by March, I ended up doing an interview a
(16:18):
video series of interviews of restaurant owners and shop owners
that were posted on Poster House Museum's website here in
New York City, and the videos are called Coronavirus Chinatown Stories.
And just by chance, the day that I decided to
do these interviews with Dan On, the videographer. It was
(16:45):
We did these interviews hours before Mayor de Blasio put
New York City into lockdown. So these interviews are actually
living history, and they document probably one of the darkest
days in Manhattan's Chinatown history, and it was just absolutely heartbreaking.
(17:09):
So we had no idea that New York City was
about to go into lockdown, and we learned from different
owners restaurant owners that they were all shutting down that day,
and we found out that seventy percent of restaurant owners
had decided that business was so bad that they couldn't
(17:31):
go on. And these interviews are so moving and poignant.
We walked into hop Key Restaurant, which has been in
Chinatown for over fifty years, and normally there's a line
out the door, and there were no customers. I think
there was maybe one table that had two customers. The
(17:54):
owner brought us into the kitchen and there was no
cooking been in a restaurant, Chinese restaurant kitchen that was silent,
And these interviews were so haunting to me, and I
was looking at the faces of the cooks, the dishwashers,
the waiters, and everybody knew that we were in trouble.
(18:18):
No one knew what was going on, but Chinatown was
definitely how could you shun Chinatown? For two months and
then we went into lockdown. So it took me a
while to realize that I could use my voice to
get to raise awareness of what was happening to Chinatown.
(18:41):
And so, as a cookbook author and as a food writer,
I started reaching out to some of the people in
the media that I know, and naturally, food magazines are
always contacting me or food websites to write articles about
Chinese cookings or frying walks, and so when I would
(19:02):
get an assignment, I would say, and can I also
write a piece about what's happening in Chinatown? And so
I think that was very powerful because as these articles
and as these radio interviews started coming out, people kept
on responding by saying I had no idea that Chinatown
(19:24):
was hurting so much. And in the United States, chinatowns
in San Francisco and New York Boston historic chinatowns are
completely dependent on tourism. There are many many chinatowns throughout
the United States, but those chinatowns are supported by locals.
(19:45):
But the historic chinatowns San Francisco and New York are
really dependent on tourism, and in twenty nineteen, New York
City had sixty six and a half million tourists. In
twenty twenty, I would guess that China Town received no
tourists or maybe one percent of that number. So that
(20:06):
has been really, really devastating for these chinatowns and it
means that they're at risk of being lost right now.
I just talked to the owner of the walk Shop
in San Francisco's Chinatown. The walk Shop has been there
for over fifty years, and the owner, Chean Chan, said
to me on Grant Avenue between Bush and Jackson Street,
(20:29):
there are now twenty two shuttered storefronts. So as a
native San Franciscan, this is just absolutely heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Wow, that is very heartbreaking. Grace and I recall when
we first talked about this, and it was at the
beginning in the pandemic and the lockdowns were happening. I'm curious,
you know. Unfortunately things still have not improved in many ways.
Hate crimes against Asian Americans are up and continue to
(21:05):
be in the news, including some very unfortunate and very
tragic ones. In twenty twenty two, and this show is
broadcasting what since then? And there has been you know,
obviously cities have opened up and then they've locked back
down again. You know, there's this state of uncertainty. How
(21:27):
are things going now in early twenty twenty two, what
is your finger on the pulse saying? So?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
At the end of last year, the New York Police
Department announced that hate crime incidents against Asian Americans in
New York City was up three hundred and sixty one percent,
which is just devastating. And the FBI announced that nationally,
(21:58):
hate crime incidents was up seventy three percent. So, yeah,
it's a very troubling time right now. It's Lunar New Year,
so it's winter and because of cold weather, I think
(22:18):
restaurants in general are struggling because most people on a
really cold day don't want to come out of their homes.
So between the cold weather, fears of omicron and COVID,
lack of tourists, and the anti Asian hate crimes, businesses
(22:42):
in Chinatown in New York City are really some of
them are really struggling to fighting for their lives. I
talked to a restaurant owner last week when the weather
was about fourteen degrees and he said they closed at
five pm. There were just no customers. And on top
of that, so every single restaurant is dealing with rising
(23:06):
food costs. So Chinese food in general is so reasonably priced,
and the way a restaurant makes their money is by volume.
So when you're paying seven dollars and fifty cents for
a bowl of one time noodle soup, how much money
(23:27):
could you possibly be making when you account for the
cost of the food, the labor, the rent, you know,
all your utilities, they're paying property tax, and yeah, it's
just insane. At most they're making maybe twenty five cents
(23:49):
fifty cents a bowl. And the way you make a
profit is to sell hundreds of bowls and then by
the end of the day maybe you've made a little
bit of money. So right now there's the volume is
just not there. And sometimes at four thirty or five
o'clock when I go into Chinatown, it is completely deserted
(24:10):
because of the anti Asia cap crimes.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Locals are afraid to come out. Tell us and then
that you've started some wonderful initiatives with Poster House Museum
and the James Beard Foundation. Tell us about those and
how we all can support the effort.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Oh, thank you for bringing that up. Yes, we just
started a social media campaign called hashtag love AAPI, standing
for Asian American Pacific Islander, so we recognize that it's
not just China towns that are hurting across the United States,
but Asian American Pacific Islander mom and pop businesses nationwide
(24:56):
are all suffering, and they've been suffering for two years.
So it's a very very simple campaign. We just asked
that people post a photo of your favorite dish or
something that you bought from the restaurant or market or
shop in your local area and post it on Instagram
(25:17):
or Twitter or Facebook and tell us why you love
it and why you love the restaurant or store, and
use the hashtag love AAPI and tell your friends and
followers to do the same thing. And I think that
so many people have been very supportive in wanting to
(25:39):
fight this anti Asian hate and doing posts that say
things like, you know, stop the hate. But the majority
people who are reading these posts are not responsible for
the hate. So I think we need to actually take
a more active response to fighting the hate by showing
(26:00):
our love. And by showing our love, that's the best
way to fight this anti Asian hate.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I completely agree, and David and I seek out Asian
American restaurants wherever we travel. I know New Orleans has
a very strong Vietnamese community that has been devastated not
only by the pandemic, but also the hurricanes and the
issues with oil spills, and it's been a terrible situation
(26:29):
in the coastal Louisiana for example. So again the hashtag
is hashtag love AAPI. AAPI stands for Asian American Pacific
Islander and their communities all across the country, probably in
every community where people are living. Yeah, there's a way
to support. So it's not just the big cities. Although
(26:50):
we certainly love visiting Chinatown and when we visit New York,
we just absolutely love it. It's always been one of
David's favorite place to shop. Actually, even when we were
not living in New York City and living in the
Hudson Valley. When we did come into New York City,
he'd bring a big backpack just to go shopping in
(27:11):
Chinatown for the produce. It was always so much fun
when he'd come home, but we'd open everything up and'd
be like, ooh, what are we cooking now?
Speaker 4 (27:19):
I know it's really important to support not just the restaurants,
but the markets and the shops. And this past summer
in twenty twenty one, in Oakland's Chinatown locals, the situation
was so bad that locals asked Governor Newsom to declare
(27:42):
a state of emergency. He did not do that, but
there were so many robberies and crimes and so many
elderly people that were assaulted that it is absolutely heartbreaking.
Is and.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
You know, assault on anyone is heartbreaking, but particularly on
someone who is elderly and has no defense and strength,
and it's it's a crime, it's a hate crime. It
needs to be punished, and we need to be more
active in not only protection but punishment. I couldn't agree more.
It's such an important topic, it really is. We do
(28:25):
need to switch gears a little bit. You kind of
segued into We talked about supporting Asian restaurants and posting
your favorite dish and a little bit about the restaurant,
and we can also talk about Asian markets and supermarkets.
We have one here in Chattanooga, I believe it or not.
It's fantastic. We go there all the time and shop
(28:48):
and cook at home, which I want to switch into.
You have been called you have a series called a
walk Therapist. You are an expert on cooking stir fry.
I'd like for you to share some things tips time
on or tips with listeners about cooking with a walk
and why it can be very healthy and some when
you go shopping for produce that is in the markets,
(29:10):
what are some things to consider buying because you are
supporting businesses at the same time you're purchasing.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Yes, first, I wish I had a series called walk Therapist.
I have one video on YouTube called walk Therapist and
it's a comedy and I think when you start doing
walk cooking. So many people have loved this video because
it just sort of addresses all the anxieties or fears
(29:38):
or yeah, just insecurities people have when they first start
cooking with a walk, which are which is totally understandable
if you didn't grow up using a walk. But walk
cooking is truly amazing and the game changer and as
you said, so healthy. So many people think of the
(30:01):
walk as a stfry pan, but you can steam boil, poach, raise,
pan fry, deep fat fry, use the You can use
the walk for smoking in addition to sturfrying, and I
also use my walk for everything from roasting a chicken
(30:25):
to making popcorn. I'll fry a steak in it. The
high sides of the walk are fantastic because it gives
you a larger volume and you avoid the spattering that
comes out from using a shallow skillet. I recommend using
a carbon steel walk, and I like a fourteen inch
(30:49):
flat bottom carbon steel walk. And the more you cook
with it, it's just like the old fashioned American cast
iron skillet. It acquires a patina, which means that you
need very very little oil to cook with it. It's
what I call ancient nonstick cookware. And as you're as
(31:15):
you learn to stir fry, you'll discover that it's a
brilliant way to eat because the emphasis is on lots
of vegetables, minimal meat, protein, and very little fat. So
oftentimes I'm cooking in dish, and in fact, at most
I'm using about one to two tablespoons of oil, which
(31:38):
means that each person is getting anywhords from three quarters
of a teaspoon to one and a half teaspoons of oil.
So it's I did a whole series four weight watchers
at one point called the stir fry Guru, and stir
frying really matches the criteria of what you want when
you want to lose weight because the emphasis is on
(32:01):
healthy carbohydrates in the form of vegetables, minimal protein, and
very little fat.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
And it's also affordable because vegetables are some of the
most easiest, nutritious and least expensive items that you can find.
We were talking before the recording that it's often they're
buried in plastic, but they're vegetables still in supermarkets.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Yes, and the best stir fried dishes are when you're
cooking with seasonal vegetables. I always say to people, if
you're trying to stir fry asparagus in December, it won't
be delicious if you're trying to cook asparagus, not just
as a stir fry, but in a braiz or a
soup or anything, because it's it's not the season, so
(32:48):
it's not tender and it's lacking flavor and it's fibrous.
But if you're cooking vegetables which are in season, the
high heat and quick cooking punches up the flavors. And
the texture. So in the wintertime, I'm stir frying a
lot with carrots or Chinese broccoli or bacchoi is in season.
(33:14):
I love regular Western broccoli. So you need to think
about what's in season. And whatever is in season is
always the least expensive. When you're trying to buy asparagus
in the dead of winter, it's probably six dollars a
pound and it's not worth it. And so in the spring,
which is just around the corner right now, this is
(33:37):
the time to take advantage of asparagus or fresh young spinach.
And by the summertime, you know, that's when it's so
fun to stir fry with bell peppers and zucchini. And
when you go to the market, you know, it's just
there's such an array of wonderful produce that is super flavorful.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
So for someone who would like to purchase a walk,
if they haven't been gifted one like we were, what
would you What are some things to look for when
purchasing a walk to consider for any type of kitchen.
Let's just say it's not one of those ten thousand
square foot mc mansions we see sometimes, but like real
people's kitchens exactly.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
So The traditional walk is round bottom, and I do
not recommend it for someone who has a normal residential stove.
As you said, if you have the McMansion and you
have your wolf for Viking range, you have a very
powerful burner, so you could use a round bottom walk
which has to be stabilized with the walk ring, which
lifts it too far from the heat. So for those
(34:44):
of us who have normal residential ranges with average power,
you need what is called a flat bottom carbon steel walk,
and the size that I think is the best is
fourteen inches, and I like the one with the long
wood handle and a short wood helper handle. One of
my favorite sources for the walk is a store in
(35:07):
New York City, mom and pop store that's been there
for thirty years, run by mister and missus Lee. And
the store is called KK Discount and they also have
a website kkdiscount dot com. The website is not very pretty,
but you can find their fourteen inch flat bottom walk
and I think it's under thirty dollars and this will
(35:28):
last you a lifetime. And when you get the walk,
it will look like a stainless steel pan. It's silver
and shiny, but it's not it's carbon steel, and you
need to use liquid detergent and one of those stainless
steel scrubbers and really scrub the inside and outside of
(35:49):
the pan and rinse it under with hot water. Do
it several times. As you're doing it. You're not going
to see anything coming off of it because the factory
oil that's on the pan is you can't see it.
But if you didn't do all this scrubbing, when you
finally heat the pan on the stove, you would get
(36:10):
a very strong chemical smell. So that's why you need
to use as much elbow grease as possible inside and out,
and then dry the pan always on heat. Never used
paper towels or kitchen towels, and just dry it on
low heat for one or two minutes until all the
water has evaporated. And then you need to season the
(36:33):
pan before you use it. And it's very easy to
season the pan. I recommend an old fashioned Chinese way,
which is just taking a bunch of scallions, cutting them
into two inch pieces, and then taking a hunk of
ginger and making enough slices you don't even have to
(36:53):
peel the ginger to make a half a cup. And
then I stir fry. I heat the walk over high
heat until you can you can heat it for like
thirty seconds or so, and then add two tablespoons of
a high smoking point oil. That would be peanuts, safflower,
(37:15):
grape seed, avocado. What else did I say? Safflower or canola? Anyway?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Safflower, canila? What about sesame?
Speaker 4 (37:27):
No, sesame is a low smoking point oil. Sesame oil
is like olive oil. So if you add a low
smoking point oil. After you've heated the walk on high heat,
and you add a low smoking point oil, it will
start to smoke immediately, which means you've broken down the
structure of the oil. So you want a high smoking
point oil. Swirl it in and then add the scallions
(37:50):
and ginger. They shouldn't be wet. Don't wash the scallions,
or you can wash them, but pat them dry because
the water would cause spat And then you reduce this
temperature to medium and just stir fry this mixture, and
as it softens, start taking your spatula and smearing it
up the sides of the walk, and the scallons and
(38:13):
ginger are literally cleaning the metal. And as you're doing this,
the heat is actually opening up the pores of the metal,
and you're coating it with oil and sealing it from rust.
So it's a very zen experience. You just stand there
for about twenty to thirty minutes stir frying this mixture,
(38:36):
and then you remove it, of course it's completely inedible,
and then cool the walk for a minute and then
wash it with hot water with I just use a
sponge and nothing will have stuck. But I have to
say to you, when the moment you heat the walk,
sometimes a carbon steel walk will turn black in one spot.
(38:59):
Sometimes it turns orange blue, a yellow glow. Sometimes it
doesn't change at all, And so this makes people very
nervous because we've never had a pan that changes color
like this. And as you continue to cook with the
walk for the first few months, it looks like you've
made a mistake. But you just have to keep on
(39:19):
going and keep on stir frying, and with time, each
time you're cooking with the walk, the pan is absorbing
some of the cooking oil and creating what we call
a patina, and that's what creates your natural nonstick surface.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Do you have to re season.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Over time? No, generally you don't, but if you have
been using your walk and then neglected using your walk
for a month or six months or something like that,
and then you come back to it. And sometimes people
find a little rust. Maybe you live in an area
near ocean, so the air is very humid, or sometimes
(40:03):
in the summer when the weather is really hot in
New York City, it's very humid in the room, and
so if you had a brand new walk, possibly there
might be a little rust. And so I have this
what I call the walk facial recipe, and that is
just to heat the walk with nothing in it for
(40:24):
like thirty seconds to a minute, and then you remove
the walk from the heat so there's no heat at all.
And then you add let's say two teaspoons of salt
and then half as much of a high smoking point
oil like the peanut oil or grape seed. So you
would add two teaspoons salt a teaspoon of oil, and
(40:45):
then take three or four paper towels and fold them
so that you have a very thick pad, and then
you buff the walk. And so you want this thick
pad because the walk is hot, and so if you
didn't have a thick paper towel pad, you could possibly
burn your fingers and just buffet and you'll see that
the paper towel will turn brown because it's taking off
(41:08):
that rust. And the salt removes any debris that is
stuck to the walk. Sometimes there's a sticky surface and
the oil sort of rejuvenates it. Then you brush it out,
rinse it in hot water, and then heat the walk
again on low heat until all the water is evaporated.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I love that the walk, Bachel, It's so interesting. You
have written a number of cookbooks. I think a great
gift would be to give someone for a wedding gift,
for example, a walk in one of your books, for
anyone that wants a special way to start a marriage
or a new home. We talked about your video comedy
(41:49):
Walk Therapist, which won a James Beardo Award a Webby Award.
You also wrote The Breadth of Walk, a video and
also a book where I would like to and stir
fry in to the sky's edge is some examples. What
does breadth of walk mean?
Speaker 4 (42:05):
So throughout China everyone's stir fries, but the Cantonese are
considered the great masters, and so in Cantonese there is
a term walk ha And you know what walk means
Hay is the same as chi, which is the Mandarin
word for life force. So walk hay is the life
(42:28):
force of the walk. And when you have made a
stir fry, which the Cantonese call a perfect great stir fry,
it possesses this life force. And I always say to people,
it's like food that's right off the grill. The moment
you eat, like a grilled chicken, right off the grill,
(42:50):
there is a special aroma and smokiness and flavor intensity
that is lost by minutes later. So the food is
still tasty and delicious, but it is lacking that extra mojo.
And so when you take super fresh ingredients stir fry
(43:13):
them on high heat quickly, as I said to you,
it punches up the flavors and the texture and it
infuses into the food, into the stir fry walk hay,
And so you get this smoky aroma and concentrated flavor
that is so special, and it only lasts for a
(43:36):
few minutes and then it's gone. And so my translation
of walk ha is the breath of the walk. So
some people say walk is the taste of the walk,
but it's really just that special essence. And the Chinese
also say that the older your walk, the more flavorful
(43:58):
your stir fry, that the pan actually gets better with age.
So Paula Wolford, the great Mediterranean food expert, wrote this
book once on clay claypot cooking, and she said to
me that clay pots hold food memory, that the older
(44:19):
they are, the better the food tastes. And that's the
same with the walk. I believe they hold food memories.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
I think that is so poetic and it's a great
way to underscore and a few minutes we have left.
One of the things I love about Asian cultures is
how much they respect and revere the elderly an age.
And I think that's so important because I feel that
(44:47):
in the United States we tend to put the elderly
a pasture in too many situations and focus on youth.
And it's something I truly admire. And I was so
enriched when I wrote read your book The Wisdom of
the Chinese Kitchen Grace. I have a hard copy and
a digital copy of that book, which really spoke to
(45:09):
me because as I grow older, as we all grow older,
I see you grain wisdom and you also realize that
aging is a beautiful thing and you actually experience and
talk about it as cooking. And I think that's so important,
don't you.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
Yes, I always say to people that in Western culture,
we want the newest things, you know, we want the
latest computer, cell phone, car, TV. When I go into
the Apple Store with my iPhone eight, you know, they
look at me with pity. Right, what do you mean
(45:47):
like I've heard about these? Yeah, you need to be
changing your phone every eighteen months. Really, But with the walk,
as I said, the older the better, and nobody would
ever ever trade an old walk for a new walk.
And it's a completely different mindset. And the walk has
(46:12):
been around for over two thousand years, and I think
what's old is new again. You know, we are rediscovering
that there is such wisdom in the old ways and
that in fact, this pan that has been around for
over two thousand years is really the hippus pan. And
(46:35):
we need to be living a more simple life now.
We don't need all these gadgets and cookware. And this
is just for my omelet and this is just for grilling.
And this I mean with one pan, you can do
everything if you have a walk, And what other pan
(46:56):
could you possibly buy for under thirty dollars and it
will last more than your lifetime. It's natural, nonstick. It's Yeah.
I keep my Walk on the on my stove because
I'm using it constantly. It is so versatile.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Well, I hope everybody listening either digs out the walk
they've buried somewhere, you know, on the shelf, or it
considers going on buying and forget the hot pot in
the air fire and all those things which I don't
own and I don't know how to use. I think
the pleasure of cooking with a walk is joyous. It's meditative,
as you talked, and you talked about the seasoning. It's healthy,
(47:39):
and it's versatile, and you know, we all are learning
to go back to I was just reading an article
in I think the Wall Street Journal about how everybody
is cooking at home and buying at home, and really
there's a research interest. If there is a silver lining
in the global pandemic is that it has all brought
us back home. And that's important. Yeah, and we are
(48:02):
all looking to cook at home and realizing that we don't. Yeah,
we do want people to go out and support restaurants
and businesses I'm going to underscore that, but balance it
with cooking at home and enjoying the pleasures of it.
And I think that you're an example and illustration of
how to do it with something as simple as a
walk has been beautiful, Grace. I really appreciate your sharing
(48:23):
that wisdom today.
Speaker 4 (48:25):
Oh absolutely. And if the area that you live in
doesn't have a great Asian market, there is a fabulous
mom and pop supermarket in New York City called poll
Wing Hong spelled po w i n g h o
n ng, and they have a website and their products
(48:47):
are really uh, top quality and affordable, and so it's
a it's a great resource.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
And again by direct because you're supporting a business directly. Yes,
score that is. There's the walk shop that you mentioned
earlier in San Francisco also sell walks in order online
or it's the only.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
Of course, yes, it's the walkshop dot com.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Okay. So we have two really great resources for buying
a walk And of course you can learn more about
Grace Young and her good work and all the contributions
she's made, including I see a big donation to the
Smithsonian of Porcelain cookware. Your family's porcelain.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, my parents beautiful China was donated. It's
over seventy years old. And we also donated my parents
a walk, so that's going to be at the Smithsonian.
It's very cool. The National Museum of American History.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
That museum, the Smithsonian Nation National Museum in American History, is
one of my most favorite of the Smithsonian Institution's museums.
I lived in Washington, as did David for many years,
and it is so so much fun to visit Washington
and go to the Smithsonian, and that is an incredible museum.
We've had some of their representatives on the Connected Table
(50:10):
in the past to talk about programs. Grace Young, I'm
so glad that you joined me to share your wisdom
a little bit about Chinese New Year, the effort to
support Asian and Asian Pacific businesses again hashtag love AAPI,
post your favorite photo of a business or a dish
or a beverage and why you love this business or
(50:32):
restaurant or shop to encourage and support these struggling businesses,
and of course the pleasure of cooking at home with
a walk. I can't thank you enough for joining today.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Thank you, Melanie and all good wishes for a fabulous
new year.
Speaker 3 (50:51):
Absolutely and share there's a special what is the what
is the This not a cheer, but how do you
say it?
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Like hey in Cantonese gung hey fat TOOI yes, and
and Mandarin is gunshi fat tai?
Speaker 3 (51:08):
And what does it mean?
Speaker 4 (51:09):
Happy New Year?
Speaker 3 (51:10):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (51:11):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
Thank you so much and happy near to you. Thank
you again for joining We appreciate it. Bye, and to
all our listeners, thank you again for joining us. Check
us out on iHeart, Spotify, Apple Podcast, or your favorite
podcast platform anytime anywhere to hear another version of this
show or some of our other episodes. Thank you again.
Speaker 5 (51:34):
Hi, this is Melanie Young, host a Fearless, Fabulous You.
If you were a loved one has been diagnosed with
breast cancer, I urge you to read my book Getting
Things Off My Chest, A Survivor's Guide to staying fearless
and fabulous in the face of breast cancer. This is
a book I wish I'd had when I was diagnosed
with breast cancer in August two thousand and nine. In it,
(51:56):
I interview survivors who provide valuable insight on what they
learn from going through breast cancer, so they can help
you make informed decisions and confident choices. I also talk
to medical experts to learn the latest advancements on breast
cancer treatment, and I provide important health tips on what
(52:18):
to eat and how to care for yourself so you
can stay as healthy and strong as you can every
day you're through treatment. Getting Things Off my Chest, A
Survivor's Guide to Staying Fearless and Fabulous in the Face
of Breast Cancer is available on Amazon and you can
buy it through my website Melanieong dot com and I'll
(52:38):
send you an autograph copy. I want you to stay
healthy in every aspect of your life, and especially if
you're facing a breast cancer diagnosis. So my message to
you is stay fearless and fabulous always and in good health.
Speaker 4 (53:00):
Don't you been
The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not
those of W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates.
We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability,
explicit or implied shall be extended to W four WN
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be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing
(00:22):
W four WN Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hello and welcome to Fearless Fabulous You. I am your host,
Melanie Young, and I am so glad you're joining me
live on the Women for Women Network that's w FOURWN
dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I am delighted to have as our guest today Grace Young,
who has been called the Poet Laureate of the Walk
by food historian Betty Fussel. She is an incredible woman
when it comes to advocacy to support the Asian American
communities and help educate all of us on the pleasures
(01:12):
of Chinese cooking. Her story is phenomenal and we're going
to discuss it today along with Chinese New Year, which
is happening currently in twenty twenty two. Grace lives in
New York City and she was born to an amazing
family that came from China. We're going to give her,
let her share her history, and talk about her award
(01:35):
winning books. You're going to learn a lot about how
she cooks with a walk and how you can cook
healthy Chinese cooking at home.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
And we're going to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Her advocacy work so that we all can be better
citizens and support Asian American businesses throughout the United States.
Grace Young, welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Thank you so much. Melanie. I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Well, I have known you for many years. You have
been a guest on the Connected Table Live, I think
about two years ago. We're happy to have you back
to talk to us. First of all, let's share a
little bit about your background and your family.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
So, my mom is born in Hong Kong and raised
in Shanghai. My family is Cantonese and she became an
airline stewardess in the late nineteen forties and was flying
between China and America and met my father in San Francisco,
(02:35):
and that's how she ended up becoming an American citizen. So,
and my father has a very interesting story. He was
actually born in San Francisco's Chinatown in nineteen fourteen, and
his family returned to China when he was just a
little boy, so he was raised in China but came
(02:58):
back when he was in his twenties. So he's an
American born citizen. And they married in nineteen forty nine.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Are they still.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Alive, No, they passed away, but yeah, they lived a
long and happy life in America.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
What are some of your happiest memories with your family?
Speaker 4 (03:19):
I would say they were really obsessed with good food
and eating with such a big part of being with
my parents. My father was a liquor salesman and his
main accounts were in San Francisco's Chinatown, so he was
there every day and he would spot the freshest ingredients.
(03:43):
He would see that the baby bakshoy was being delivered
and you would buy it and so or whatever. You know,
the fresh fish had just been brought into the store.
So my parents never shopped once a week. They really
were shopping every single day. So the concept of fresh,
(04:08):
just picked produce is something that was just so so
much a part of my upbringing. That the quality of
the ingredients and freshness is so important to making great food.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
You know, you're so very lucky to have grown up
in a city like San Francisco, which has a wonderful
China town and it has all these great markets, and
you live in New York where you get this blessing
as well. Not everybody is lucky to do that. I've
been traveling around the country, particularly in the Deep South,
for over a year now, Grace, and there are so
many food deserts out here where you cannot get fresh food.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I know, I know. And even here in New York City,
you know, there are markets that you can go into
American supermarkets where everything is already bundled up in plastic packages,
and I feel like there's locating the produce, right.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yeah, I agree with you. I've been spending a lot,
I mean, particularly here in the South. And I'm not
knocking the South, listeners, I'm a Southern girl from Tennessee,
but it is disheartening to see the fact that a
lot of people are not really eating fresh. Either they're
eating produce that's very old or less than fresh, or
the food is already prepared, so nobody's cooking However, we
(05:24):
are going to talk about cooking Chinese food at home,
particularly because you are the walk therapist. But before we
do that, we are broadcasting during Lunar New Year, which
is Chinese New Year, and I'd like you to share
a little history. Particularly I'm sure you grew up seeing
some amazing celebrations in San Francisco and of course now
in New York, a little bit of the history and
(05:45):
significance and traditions of this important celebration in the culture.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
So this is the most important holiday for the Chinese,
and it is really a cross between our Thanksgiving and
our at Easter. So it's a time to give thanks
and the family always has to go home, but it's
also a time of renewal and rebirth and new beginnings.
(06:16):
And the Chinese really believe that if you do certain things,
you can completely change your fortunes for the coming year.
So the period leading up to the new year is
a time to completely clean your house because you want
that fresh beginning. On the first day of the new year.
(06:39):
You're never supposed to sweep or vacuum, because that would
actually be sweeping your good fortune away. On the first
day of the new year, you don't use knives or
scissors or any sharp object because that would be cutting
away your fortunes. And the celebration goes on for two weeks,
(07:00):
and during that two week period there are very specific
foods that you eat to ensure your good fortunes. So
the traditional meal is on New Year's Eve, but people
families celebrate throughout the two week period. And during this
time it's very important to eat dumplings, specifically the boiled
(07:24):
dumplings that can also be pan fried and become potstickers,
because the Chinese say that the shape of the dumpling
looks like ancient Chinese coins, and especially when you pan
fry potstickers, they look golden, and so they look like money,
so that is a symbol of wealth. Spring rolls are
(07:47):
very popular. Again, they look like a gold in gods,
and so they bring good fortune. Oftentimes, my mother loves
to make a stir fry of chataki mushrooms with ginger
and a little rice wine and a splash of soy
sauce because chataki mushrooms grow very very quickly, and so
(08:12):
that means that your fortunes will grow quickly. But there
are other traditions. Some people eat a sweet and sour dish.
The word for sour sounds like it's a homonym for
the word for grandchild, so that pretends that your family
will be growing. You typically have a steamed, a poached,
(08:33):
or even a pan fried whole fish. My family always
did a steamed sea bass with scallions and ginger, and
the fish has so many important symbolisms, and one of
them is that fish swim in pears, so they represent
(08:55):
marital bliss. You have to have the whole fish, not
fish filet, because that symbolizes a proper beginning and end
to your year. And the word for fish sounds like
the word for wish in Chinese, so it means that
your wishes will come true. So there's a whole list
of all the different foods like clams and scallops represent
(09:20):
your fortunes growing because the shells when they open up
represent a new beginning, and then the shells themselves also
look like ancient Chinese coins.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
A lot of round foods.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Yes, what about noodles. Noodles represent longevity, so that's very
very important.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
We've been eating a lot of dumplings, Grace, just so
you know, just because we'd like to have some more
good fortune in our lives and noodles as well for longevity.
Is there anything that you should not be eating?
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Lots of people are reluctant to eat tofu in the
first few day of the year because tofu is white,
and white is the color of death in Chinese culture.
When you're mourning, you wear white clothing. So there are
people that are superstitious and feel that that's not lucky.
(10:19):
Is there anything else that you shouldn't eat? I have
to think about that one. I'm always thinking pro like, well, that's.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
The next that red is believed to bring good fortune,
and you give children lucky money and red envelopes throughout
the proceedings.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Correct, yes, yeah, So when you go to China this
time of year, there are so many different stores where
you can buy these envelopes, and some of them have
the word double happiness, some have longevity, some have fortune
on the envelope. And this year is the year of
the Tiger, and so uh, it's really beautiful to get
(11:03):
the envelopes that have the different animals on the year.
And my mother and Aunties always carried a stack of
them in their purse and you put you know, you
can put any amount of money in the envelope. They
typically would go to the bank and get fresh dollar
bills really crisp, and put one single bill in each envelope.
(11:23):
And so if they bumped into a child, a friend's
daughter or son, they would be able to hand them
the money immediately and wish them a happy New Year.
And yeah, so as a child, it was always nice
taking a walk through Chinatown with my parents and running
into different friends or aunties and uncles and then receiving
(11:47):
the lucky money.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I think that it sounds like hanaka guilp, you know
when they do that for Hankah. It's kind of it's
really wonderful. You know, the year of the Tiger, So
how does that work? I'm by the way, I think
I'm the year of the bore, But how do the
different years work in the calendar? And what does the
tiger symbolize?
Speaker 4 (12:08):
So the time, so I have to confess to you,
I'm not very informed about Chinese astrology. This is I'm
not about Western astrology. I know what my sign is,
but the year of the tiger is very important. It
is this one is the water tiger, and the tiger,
(12:30):
of course is one of the most powerful animals and
is hardworking and is unafraid and fearless. And I've read
that the water tiger is very good at staying calm
during challenging times. So I feel very positive that this
(12:54):
is going to be a really it's going to be
a turning point for us for starting a new beginning
and really recovering well.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I hope. So here's an interesting fact when I was
doing my research. Grace, Queen Elizabeth, who's celebrating is like
a diamond jubilee, was born in the year of the Tiger,
and goodness knows, her majesty has gone through a lot
of challenges during her reign on the throne of the
United Kingdom. So she was born on the flip side.
So is Marilyn Monroe. So that's kind of an interesting comparison.
(13:26):
I'm born in the year Let's fire her.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Yeah, I made it sort of like American astrology, right,
sometimes when you read your reading. Of course, it could
apply to anybody. But I do feel that the tiger,
for sure, in Chinese astrology is considered a coveted animal
and it is a powerful sign to be born under.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Well, I'd like to talk about being fearless because since
twenty twenty eighth, the start of the COVID nineteen pandemic.
You have been a fearless, entireless advocate for supporting the
Chinese communities and businesses throughout the United States, and I
think that it's important to underscore here on our conversation
(14:14):
today how important it is for all of our listeners
to be aware of why their actions can also help
these often mom and pop businesses. So tell us what
you're doing.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
So all of this, as you said, happened quite by accident.
I am really I was planning on starting a new
cookbook at the beginning of twenty twenty, and I live
in Manhattan and I'm often in Chinatown. And in January
of twenty twenty, before there were any deaths from COVID
in the United States, I was in Chinatown and was
(14:50):
completely stunned that it was empty, and it was a
ghost town and there were hardly any people on the streets.
And normally you're jostling with so many people, and I'm
fighting with the grandma's and the aunties for my produce,
but it was completely empty down I glanced into stores
or restaurants and there were no customers, and it was
(15:12):
the rhetoric of calling COVID the China virus or the
Wuhan virus or Kung flu that made Chinatown throughout the
United States completely empty out. People were afraid to go
Chinatown because of this suggestion that if you went to
Chinatown you would catch COVID, which was absolutely untrue. So
(15:36):
I immediately started doing posts on Instagram about we have
to go down to Chinatown and support these restaurants. And
look look at this produce vendor standing outside on the street,
you know, trying to sell her produce and doesn't have
any customers. And it was the dead of winter in
New York City, so the combination of the weather and
(15:57):
no customers, it was just so many businesses saw their
businesses drop eighty percent. And Chinatown in New York City,
ninety four percent of the businesses are mom and pop shops.
So by March, I ended up doing an interview a
(16:18):
video series of interviews of restaurant owners and shop owners
that were posted on Poster House Museum's website here in
New York City, and the videos are called Coronavirus Chinatown Stories.
And just by chance, the day that I decided to
do these interviews with Dan On, the videographer. It was
(16:45):
We did these interviews hours before Mayor de Blasio put
New York City into lockdown. So these interviews are actually
living history, and they document probably one of the darkest
days in Manhattan's Chinatown history, and it was just absolutely heartbreaking.
(17:09):
So we had no idea that New York City was
about to go into lockdown, and we learned from different
owners restaurant owners that they were all shutting down that day,
and we found out that seventy percent of restaurant owners
had decided that business was so bad that they couldn't
(17:31):
go on. And these interviews are so moving and poignant.
We walked into hop Key Restaurant, which has been in
Chinatown for over fifty years, and normally there's a line
out the door, and there were no customers. I think
there was maybe one table that had two customers. The
(17:54):
owner brought us into the kitchen and there was no
cooking been in a restaurant, Chinese restaurant kitchen that was silent,
And these interviews were so haunting to me, and I
was looking at the faces of the cooks, the dishwashers,
the waiters, and everybody knew that we were in trouble.
(18:18):
No one knew what was going on, but Chinatown was
definitely how could you shun Chinatown? For two months and
then we went into lockdown. So it took me a
while to realize that I could use my voice to
get to raise awareness of what was happening to Chinatown.
(18:41):
And so, as a cookbook author and as a food writer,
I started reaching out to some of the people in
the media that I know, and naturally, food magazines are
always contacting me or food websites to write articles about
Chinese cookings or frying walks, and so when I would
(19:02):
get an assignment, I would say, and can I also
write a piece about what's happening in Chinatown? And so
I think that was very powerful because as these articles
and as these radio interviews started coming out, people kept
on responding by saying I had no idea that Chinatown
(19:24):
was hurting so much. And in the United States, chinatowns
in San Francisco and New York Boston historic chinatowns are
completely dependent on tourism. There are many many chinatowns throughout
the United States, but those chinatowns are supported by locals.
(19:45):
But the historic chinatowns San Francisco and New York are
really dependent on tourism, and in twenty nineteen, New York
City had sixty six and a half million tourists. In
twenty twenty, I would guess that China Town received no
tourists or maybe one percent of that number. So that
(20:06):
has been really, really devastating for these chinatowns and it
means that they're at risk of being lost right now.
I just talked to the owner of the walk Shop
in San Francisco's Chinatown. The walk Shop has been there
for over fifty years, and the owner, Chean Chan, said
to me on Grant Avenue between Bush and Jackson Street,
(20:29):
there are now twenty two shuttered storefronts. So as a
native San Franciscan, this is just absolutely heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Wow, that is very heartbreaking. Grace and I recall when
we first talked about this, and it was at the
beginning in the pandemic and the lockdowns were happening. I'm curious,
you know. Unfortunately things still have not improved in many ways.
Hate crimes against Asian Americans are up and continue to
(21:05):
be in the news, including some very unfortunate and very
tragic ones. In twenty twenty two, and this show is
broadcasting what since then? And there has been you know,
obviously cities have opened up and then they've locked back
down again. You know, there's this state of uncertainty. How
(21:27):
are things going now in early twenty twenty two, what
is your finger on the pulse saying? So?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
At the end of last year, the New York Police
Department announced that hate crime incidents against Asian Americans in
New York City was up three hundred and sixty one percent,
which is just devastating. And the FBI announced that nationally,
(21:58):
hate crime incidents was up seventy three percent. So, yeah,
it's a very troubling time right now. It's Lunar New Year,
so it's winter and because of cold weather, I think
(22:18):
restaurants in general are struggling because most people on a
really cold day don't want to come out of their homes.
So between the cold weather, fears of omicron and COVID,
lack of tourists, and the anti Asian hate crimes, businesses
(22:42):
in Chinatown in New York City are really some of
them are really struggling to fighting for their lives. I
talked to a restaurant owner last week when the weather
was about fourteen degrees and he said they closed at
five pm. There were just no customers. And on top
of that, so every single restaurant is dealing with rising
(23:06):
food costs. So Chinese food in general is so reasonably priced,
and the way a restaurant makes their money is by volume.
So when you're paying seven dollars and fifty cents for
a bowl of one time noodle soup, how much money
(23:27):
could you possibly be making when you account for the
cost of the food, the labor, the rent, you know,
all your utilities, they're paying property tax, and yeah, it's
just insane. At most they're making maybe twenty five cents
(23:49):
fifty cents a bowl. And the way you make a
profit is to sell hundreds of bowls and then by
the end of the day maybe you've made a little
bit of money. So right now there's the volume is
just not there. And sometimes at four thirty or five
o'clock when I go into Chinatown, it is completely deserted
(24:10):
because of the anti Asia cap crimes.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Locals are afraid to come out. Tell us and then
that you've started some wonderful initiatives with Poster House Museum
and the James Beard Foundation. Tell us about those and
how we all can support the effort.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Oh, thank you for bringing that up. Yes, we just
started a social media campaign called hashtag love AAPI, standing
for Asian American Pacific Islander, so we recognize that it's
not just China towns that are hurting across the United States,
but Asian American Pacific Islander mom and pop businesses nationwide
(24:56):
are all suffering, and they've been suffering for two years.
So it's a very very simple campaign. We just asked
that people post a photo of your favorite dish or
something that you bought from the restaurant or market or
shop in your local area and post it on Instagram
(25:17):
or Twitter or Facebook and tell us why you love
it and why you love the restaurant or store, and
use the hashtag love AAPI and tell your friends and
followers to do the same thing. And I think that
so many people have been very supportive in wanting to
(25:39):
fight this anti Asian hate and doing posts that say
things like, you know, stop the hate. But the majority
people who are reading these posts are not responsible for
the hate. So I think we need to actually take
a more active response to fighting the hate by showing
(26:00):
our love. And by showing our love, that's the best
way to fight this anti Asian hate.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I completely agree, and David and I seek out Asian
American restaurants wherever we travel. I know New Orleans has
a very strong Vietnamese community that has been devastated not
only by the pandemic, but also the hurricanes and the
issues with oil spills, and it's been a terrible situation
(26:29):
in the coastal Louisiana for example. So again the hashtag
is hashtag love AAPI. AAPI stands for Asian American Pacific
Islander and their communities all across the country, probably in
every community where people are living. Yeah, there's a way
to support. So it's not just the big cities. Although
(26:50):
we certainly love visiting Chinatown and when we visit New York,
we just absolutely love it. It's always been one of
David's favorite place to shop. Actually, even when we were
not living in New York City and living in the
Hudson Valley. When we did come into New York City,
he'd bring a big backpack just to go shopping in
(27:11):
Chinatown for the produce. It was always so much fun
when he'd come home, but we'd open everything up and'd
be like, ooh, what are we cooking now?
Speaker 4 (27:19):
I know it's really important to support not just the restaurants,
but the markets and the shops. And this past summer
in twenty twenty one, in Oakland's Chinatown locals, the situation
was so bad that locals asked Governor Newsom to declare
(27:42):
a state of emergency. He did not do that, but
there were so many robberies and crimes and so many
elderly people that were assaulted that it is absolutely heartbreaking.
Is and.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
You know, assault on anyone is heartbreaking, but particularly on
someone who is elderly and has no defense and strength,
and it's it's a crime, it's a hate crime. It
needs to be punished, and we need to be more
active in not only protection but punishment. I couldn't agree more.
It's such an important topic, it really is. We do
(28:25):
need to switch gears a little bit. You kind of
segued into We talked about supporting Asian restaurants and posting
your favorite dish and a little bit about the restaurant,
and we can also talk about Asian markets and supermarkets.
We have one here in Chattanooga, I believe it or not.
It's fantastic. We go there all the time and shop
(28:48):
and cook at home, which I want to switch into.
You have been called you have a series called a
walk Therapist. You are an expert on cooking stir fry.
I'd like for you to share some things tips time
on or tips with listeners about cooking with a walk
and why it can be very healthy and some when
you go shopping for produce that is in the markets,
(29:10):
what are some things to consider buying because you are
supporting businesses at the same time you're purchasing.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Yes, first, I wish I had a series called walk Therapist.
I have one video on YouTube called walk Therapist and
it's a comedy and I think when you start doing
walk cooking. So many people have loved this video because
it just sort of addresses all the anxieties or fears
(29:38):
or yeah, just insecurities people have when they first start
cooking with a walk, which are which is totally understandable
if you didn't grow up using a walk. But walk
cooking is truly amazing and the game changer and as
you said, so healthy. So many people think of the
(30:01):
walk as a stfry pan, but you can steam boil, poach, raise,
pan fry, deep fat fry, use the You can use
the walk for smoking in addition to sturfrying, and I
also use my walk for everything from roasting a chicken
(30:25):
to making popcorn. I'll fry a steak in it. The
high sides of the walk are fantastic because it gives
you a larger volume and you avoid the spattering that
comes out from using a shallow skillet. I recommend using
a carbon steel walk, and I like a fourteen inch
(30:49):
flat bottom carbon steel walk. And the more you cook
with it, it's just like the old fashioned American cast
iron skillet. It acquires a patina, which means that you
need very very little oil to cook with it. It's
what I call ancient nonstick cookware. And as you're as
(31:15):
you learn to stir fry, you'll discover that it's a
brilliant way to eat because the emphasis is on lots
of vegetables, minimal meat, protein, and very little fat. So
oftentimes I'm cooking in dish, and in fact, at most
I'm using about one to two tablespoons of oil, which
(31:38):
means that each person is getting anywhords from three quarters
of a teaspoon to one and a half teaspoons of oil.
So it's I did a whole series four weight watchers
at one point called the stir fry Guru, and stir
frying really matches the criteria of what you want when
you want to lose weight because the emphasis is on
(32:01):
healthy carbohydrates in the form of vegetables, minimal protein, and
very little fat.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
And it's also affordable because vegetables are some of the
most easiest, nutritious and least expensive items that you can find.
We were talking before the recording that it's often they're
buried in plastic, but they're vegetables still in supermarkets.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Yes, and the best stir fried dishes are when you're
cooking with seasonal vegetables. I always say to people, if
you're trying to stir fry asparagus in December, it won't
be delicious if you're trying to cook asparagus, not just
as a stir fry, but in a braiz or a
soup or anything, because it's it's not the season, so
(32:48):
it's not tender and it's lacking flavor and it's fibrous.
But if you're cooking vegetables which are in season, the
high heat and quick cooking punches up the flavors. And
the texture. So in the wintertime, I'm stir frying a
lot with carrots or Chinese broccoli or bacchoi is in season.
(33:14):
I love regular Western broccoli. So you need to think
about what's in season. And whatever is in season is
always the least expensive. When you're trying to buy asparagus
in the dead of winter, it's probably six dollars a
pound and it's not worth it. And so in the spring,
which is just around the corner right now, this is
(33:37):
the time to take advantage of asparagus or fresh young spinach.
And by the summertime, you know, that's when it's so
fun to stir fry with bell peppers and zucchini. And
when you go to the market, you know, it's just
there's such an array of wonderful produce that is super flavorful.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
So for someone who would like to purchase a walk,
if they haven't been gifted one like we were, what
would you What are some things to look for when
purchasing a walk to consider for any type of kitchen.
Let's just say it's not one of those ten thousand
square foot mc mansions we see sometimes, but like real
people's kitchens exactly.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
So The traditional walk is round bottom, and I do
not recommend it for someone who has a normal residential stove.
As you said, if you have the McMansion and you
have your wolf for Viking range, you have a very
powerful burner, so you could use a round bottom walk
which has to be stabilized with the walk ring, which
lifts it too far from the heat. So for those
(34:44):
of us who have normal residential ranges with average power,
you need what is called a flat bottom carbon steel walk,
and the size that I think is the best is
fourteen inches, and I like the one with the long
wood handle and a short wood helper handle. One of
my favorite sources for the walk is a store in
(35:07):
New York City, mom and pop store that's been there
for thirty years, run by mister and missus Lee. And
the store is called KK Discount and they also have
a website kkdiscount dot com. The website is not very pretty,
but you can find their fourteen inch flat bottom walk
and I think it's under thirty dollars and this will
(35:28):
last you a lifetime. And when you get the walk,
it will look like a stainless steel pan. It's silver
and shiny, but it's not it's carbon steel, and you
need to use liquid detergent and one of those stainless
steel scrubbers and really scrub the inside and outside of
(35:49):
the pan and rinse it under with hot water. Do
it several times. As you're doing it. You're not going
to see anything coming off of it because the factory
oil that's on the pan is you can't see it.
But if you didn't do all this scrubbing, when you
finally heat the pan on the stove, you would get
(36:10):
a very strong chemical smell. So that's why you need
to use as much elbow grease as possible inside and out,
and then dry the pan always on heat. Never used
paper towels or kitchen towels, and just dry it on
low heat for one or two minutes until all the
water has evaporated. And then you need to season the
(36:33):
pan before you use it. And it's very easy to
season the pan. I recommend an old fashioned Chinese way,
which is just taking a bunch of scallions, cutting them
into two inch pieces, and then taking a hunk of
ginger and making enough slices you don't even have to
(36:53):
peel the ginger to make a half a cup. And
then I stir fry. I heat the walk over high
heat until you can you can heat it for like
thirty seconds or so, and then add two tablespoons of
a high smoking point oil. That would be peanuts, safflower,
(37:15):
grape seed, avocado. What else did I say? Safflower or canola? Anyway?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Safflower, canila? What about sesame?
Speaker 4 (37:27):
No, sesame is a low smoking point oil. Sesame oil
is like olive oil. So if you add a low
smoking point oil. After you've heated the walk on high heat,
and you add a low smoking point oil, it will
start to smoke immediately, which means you've broken down the
structure of the oil. So you want a high smoking
point oil. Swirl it in and then add the scallions
(37:50):
and ginger. They shouldn't be wet. Don't wash the scallions,
or you can wash them, but pat them dry because
the water would cause spat And then you reduce this
temperature to medium and just stir fry this mixture, and
as it softens, start taking your spatula and smearing it
up the sides of the walk, and the scallons and
(38:13):
ginger are literally cleaning the metal. And as you're doing this,
the heat is actually opening up the pores of the metal,
and you're coating it with oil and sealing it from rust.
So it's a very zen experience. You just stand there
for about twenty to thirty minutes stir frying this mixture,
(38:36):
and then you remove it, of course it's completely inedible,
and then cool the walk for a minute and then
wash it with hot water with I just use a
sponge and nothing will have stuck. But I have to
say to you, when the moment you heat the walk,
sometimes a carbon steel walk will turn black in one spot.
(38:59):
Sometimes it turns orange blue, a yellow glow. Sometimes it
doesn't change at all, And so this makes people very
nervous because we've never had a pan that changes color
like this. And as you continue to cook with the
walk for the first few months, it looks like you've
made a mistake. But you just have to keep on
(39:19):
going and keep on stir frying, and with time, each
time you're cooking with the walk, the pan is absorbing
some of the cooking oil and creating what we call
a patina, and that's what creates your natural nonstick surface.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Do you have to re season.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Over time? No, generally you don't, but if you have
been using your walk and then neglected using your walk
for a month or six months or something like that,
and then you come back to it. And sometimes people
find a little rust. Maybe you live in an area
near ocean, so the air is very humid, or sometimes
(40:03):
in the summer when the weather is really hot in
New York City, it's very humid in the room, and
so if you had a brand new walk, possibly there
might be a little rust. And so I have this
what I call the walk facial recipe, and that is
just to heat the walk with nothing in it for
(40:24):
like thirty seconds to a minute, and then you remove
the walk from the heat so there's no heat at all.
And then you add let's say two teaspoons of salt
and then half as much of a high smoking point
oil like the peanut oil or grape seed. So you
would add two teaspoons salt a teaspoon of oil, and
(40:45):
then take three or four paper towels and fold them
so that you have a very thick pad, and then
you buff the walk. And so you want this thick
pad because the walk is hot, and so if you
didn't have a thick paper towel pad, you could possibly
burn your fingers and just buffet and you'll see that
the paper towel will turn brown because it's taking off
(41:08):
that rust. And the salt removes any debris that is
stuck to the walk. Sometimes there's a sticky surface and
the oil sort of rejuvenates it. Then you brush it out,
rinse it in hot water, and then heat the walk
again on low heat until all the water is evaporated.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
I love that the walk, Bachel, It's so interesting. You
have written a number of cookbooks. I think a great
gift would be to give someone for a wedding gift,
for example, a walk in one of your books, for
anyone that wants a special way to start a marriage
or a new home. We talked about your video comedy
(41:49):
Walk Therapist, which won a James Beardo Award a Webby Award.
You also wrote The Breadth of Walk, a video and
also a book where I would like to and stir
fry in to the sky's edge is some examples. What
does breadth of walk mean?
Speaker 4 (42:05):
So throughout China everyone's stir fries, but the Cantonese are
considered the great masters, and so in Cantonese there is
a term walk ha And you know what walk means
Hay is the same as chi, which is the Mandarin
word for life force. So walk hay is the life
(42:28):
force of the walk. And when you have made a
stir fry, which the Cantonese call a perfect great stir fry,
it possesses this life force. And I always say to people,
it's like food that's right off the grill. The moment
you eat, like a grilled chicken, right off the grill,
(42:50):
there is a special aroma and smokiness and flavor intensity
that is lost by minutes later. So the food is
still tasty and delicious, but it is lacking that extra mojo.
And so when you take super fresh ingredients stir fry
(43:13):
them on high heat quickly, as I said to you,
it punches up the flavors and the texture and it
infuses into the food, into the stir fry walk hay,
And so you get this smoky aroma and concentrated flavor
that is so special, and it only lasts for a
(43:36):
few minutes and then it's gone. And so my translation
of walk ha is the breath of the walk. So
some people say walk is the taste of the walk,
but it's really just that special essence. And the Chinese
also say that the older your walk, the more flavorful
(43:58):
your stir fry, that the pan actually gets better with age.
So Paula Wolford, the great Mediterranean food expert, wrote this
book once on clay claypot cooking, and she said to
me that clay pots hold food memory, that the older
(44:19):
they are, the better the food tastes. And that's the
same with the walk. I believe they hold food memories.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
I think that is so poetic and it's a great
way to underscore and a few minutes we have left.
One of the things I love about Asian cultures is
how much they respect and revere the elderly an age.
And I think that's so important because I feel that
(44:47):
in the United States we tend to put the elderly
a pasture in too many situations and focus on youth.
And it's something I truly admire. And I was so
enriched when I wrote read your book The Wisdom of
the Chinese Kitchen Grace. I have a hard copy and
a digital copy of that book, which really spoke to
(45:09):
me because as I grow older, as we all grow older,
I see you grain wisdom and you also realize that
aging is a beautiful thing and you actually experience and
talk about it as cooking. And I think that's so important,
don't you.
Speaker 4 (45:26):
Yes, I always say to people that in Western culture,
we want the newest things, you know, we want the
latest computer, cell phone, car, TV. When I go into
the Apple Store with my iPhone eight, you know, they
look at me with pity. Right, what do you mean
(45:47):
like I've heard about these? Yeah, you need to be
changing your phone every eighteen months. Really, But with the walk,
as I said, the older the better, and nobody would
ever ever trade an old walk for a new walk.
And it's a completely different mindset. And the walk has
(46:12):
been around for over two thousand years, and I think
what's old is new again. You know, we are rediscovering
that there is such wisdom in the old ways and
that in fact, this pan that has been around for
over two thousand years is really the hippus pan. And
(46:35):
we need to be living a more simple life now.
We don't need all these gadgets and cookware. And this
is just for my omelet and this is just for grilling.
And this I mean with one pan, you can do
everything if you have a walk, And what other pan
(46:56):
could you possibly buy for under thirty dollars and it
will last more than your lifetime. It's natural, nonstick. It's Yeah.
I keep my Walk on the on my stove because
I'm using it constantly. It is so versatile.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Well, I hope everybody listening either digs out the walk
they've buried somewhere, you know, on the shelf, or it
considers going on buying and forget the hot pot in
the air fire and all those things which I don't
own and I don't know how to use. I think
the pleasure of cooking with a walk is joyous. It's meditative,
as you talked, and you talked about the seasoning. It's healthy,
(47:39):
and it's versatile, and you know, we all are learning
to go back to I was just reading an article
in I think the Wall Street Journal about how everybody
is cooking at home and buying at home, and really
there's a research interest. If there is a silver lining
in the global pandemic is that it has all brought
us back home. And that's important. Yeah, and we are
(48:02):
all looking to cook at home and realizing that we don't. Yeah,
we do want people to go out and support restaurants
and businesses I'm going to underscore that, but balance it
with cooking at home and enjoying the pleasures of it.
And I think that you're an example and illustration of
how to do it with something as simple as a
walk has been beautiful, Grace. I really appreciate your sharing
(48:23):
that wisdom today.
Speaker 4 (48:25):
Oh absolutely. And if the area that you live in
doesn't have a great Asian market, there is a fabulous
mom and pop supermarket in New York City called poll
Wing Hong spelled po w i n g h o
n ng, and they have a website and their products
(48:47):
are really uh, top quality and affordable, and so it's
a it's a great resource.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
And again by direct because you're supporting a business directly. Yes,
score that is. There's the walk shop that you mentioned
earlier in San Francisco also sell walks in order online
or it's the only.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
Of course, yes, it's the walkshop dot com.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Okay. So we have two really great resources for buying
a walk And of course you can learn more about
Grace Young and her good work and all the contributions
she's made, including I see a big donation to the
Smithsonian of Porcelain cookware. Your family's porcelain.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, my parents beautiful China was donated. It's
over seventy years old. And we also donated my parents
a walk, so that's going to be at the Smithsonian.
It's very cool. The National Museum of American History.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
That museum, the Smithsonian Nation National Museum in American History, is
one of my most favorite of the Smithsonian Institution's museums.
I lived in Washington, as did David for many years,
and it is so so much fun to visit Washington
and go to the Smithsonian, and that is an incredible museum.
We've had some of their representatives on the Connected Table
(50:10):
in the past to talk about programs. Grace Young, I'm
so glad that you joined me to share your wisdom
a little bit about Chinese New Year, the effort to
support Asian and Asian Pacific businesses again hashtag love AAPI,
post your favorite photo of a business or a dish
or a beverage and why you love this business or
(50:32):
restaurant or shop to encourage and support these struggling businesses,
and of course the pleasure of cooking at home with
a walk. I can't thank you enough for joining today.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Thank you, Melanie and all good wishes for a fabulous
new year.
Speaker 3 (50:51):
Absolutely and share there's a special what is the what
is the This not a cheer, but how do you
say it?
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Like hey in Cantonese gung hey fat TOOI yes, and
and Mandarin is gunshi fat tai?
Speaker 3 (51:08):
And what does it mean?
Speaker 4 (51:09):
Happy New Year?
Speaker 3 (51:10):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (51:11):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
Thank you so much and happy near to you. Thank
you again for joining We appreciate it. Bye, and to
all our listeners, thank you again for joining us. Check
us out on iHeart, Spotify, Apple Podcast, or your favorite
podcast platform anytime anywhere to hear another version of this
show or some of our other episodes. Thank you again.
Speaker 5 (51:34):
Hi, this is Melanie Young, host a Fearless, Fabulous You.
If you were a loved one has been diagnosed with
breast cancer, I urge you to read my book Getting
Things Off My Chest, A Survivor's Guide to staying fearless
and fabulous in the face of breast cancer. This is
a book I wish I'd had when I was diagnosed
with breast cancer in August two thousand and nine. In it,
(51:56):
I interview survivors who provide valuable insight on what they
learn from going through breast cancer, so they can help
you make informed decisions and confident choices. I also talk
to medical experts to learn the latest advancements on breast
cancer treatment, and I provide important health tips on what
(52:18):
to eat and how to care for yourself so you
can stay as healthy and strong as you can every
day you're through treatment. Getting Things Off my Chest, A
Survivor's Guide to Staying Fearless and Fabulous in the Face
of Breast Cancer is available on Amazon and you can
buy it through my website Melanieong dot com and I'll
(52:38):
send you an autograph copy. I want you to stay
healthy in every aspect of your life, and especially if
you're facing a breast cancer diagnosis. So my message to
you is stay fearless and fabulous always and in good health.
Speaker 4 (53:00):
Don't you been
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