Devin Townsend goes all out on new double-single ‘Prepare For War / The Big Snit’ Taken from ambitious, orchestral-metal opus The Moth
The Moth is about the journey—but it is also about arrival”
Canadian metal maverick Devin Townsend recently announced the long-awaited release of his ambitious, orchestral-metal opus ‘The Moth’, out 29th May 2026 via InsideOutMusic.
An album over a decade in the making, it existed in the back of Devin Townsend’s mind as his “life’s work”. Then, about six years ago, after an acoustic show in Amsterdam, Townsend was approached by the head of the North Netherlands’ Orchestra and Choir with an offer; and with that moment The Moth stopped being an idea and began to become a reality.
Today he is pleased to reveal another part of The Moth narrative in the shape of the visceral and heavy double-single ‘Prepare For War / The Big Snit’. Watch the video, directed by Studio Sparks, here: https://youtu.be/wdhwXKtVBR0
Devin comments: “This is a track that essentially acts as a ‘soundtrack for an unmade movie’ …if you think of it as a ‘song’ it’s not really going to work, but if you think of it as a cinematic ‘experience’ that is representative of the final moments before a ‘fundamental change’, it’s a cool adventure.
The name ‘The Big Snit’ was taken from a short cartoon from the Canadian national film board by the same name I grew up with. If you get a chance, look it up on YouTube … I guess my version here is simply a kind of heavy metal version of that :)”
Stream the single here: https://dvn.lnk.to/PrepareForWarTheBigSnit
If The Moth has a central gravitational theme, Townsend names it plainly: true self-acceptance. Something sturdier than slogans, closer to a practiced willingness to face what is uncomfortable without turning away. As Devin explains: “The most obvious metaphor for change within the concept of this project was a moth: from caterpillar to an entirely different creature—one so drawn to the light that it burns itself away. What remains is immutable—only the spirit.”
At the hardest moments, when abandoning the project might have seemed rational, Townsend points to the team as the decisive factor. A host of incredible musicians and contributors participated throughout the course of this process, as well as the North Netherlands Orchestra & Choir and orchestrators Joseph Stevenson & Niels Bye Nielsen. Long time band members Darby Todd, Mike Keneally, James Leach played a huge part, as well as guests including the Steve Vai, Anneke van Giersbergen, Lynn Wu (Ou), and artists Travis Smith & Eliran Kantor, plus key creative consultation from Mike St-Jean. The technical teams that worked tirelessly included co-mixer Chris Edrich, recording engineers Ben Searles & Jacob Hermann, Atmos mixer Ron Searles, Mastering engineer Troy Glessner, choirs in various countries throughout the world, and peripheral individuals that helped land this behemoth of a plane.
DEVIN TOWNSEND online:
https://www.hevydevy.com
https://www.facebook.com/dvntownsend
https://www.omerch.com
https://www.patreon.com/cw/DevinTownsend
https://twitter.com/dvntownsend
https://www.instagram.com/dvntownsend/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dvntownsend
https://www.youtube.com/user/poopynuggeteer/featured
https://twitch.tv/devin_townsend
Click Here to Subscribe to The Adventures of Pipeman for PERKS, BONUS Content & FREE GIVEWAYS!
Take some zany and serious journeys with The Pipe
The Moth is about the journey—but it is also about arrival”
Canadian metal maverick Devin Townsend recently announced the long-awaited release of his ambitious, orchestral-metal opus ‘The Moth’, out 29th May 2026 via InsideOutMusic.
An album over a decade in the making, it existed in the back of Devin Townsend’s mind as his “life’s work”. Then, about six years ago, after an acoustic show in Amsterdam, Townsend was approached by the head of the North Netherlands’ Orchestra and Choir with an offer; and with that moment The Moth stopped being an idea and began to become a reality.
Today he is pleased to reveal another part of The Moth narrative in the shape of the visceral and heavy double-single ‘Prepare For War / The Big Snit’. Watch the video, directed by Studio Sparks, here: https://youtu.be/wdhwXKtVBR0
Devin comments: “This is a track that essentially acts as a ‘soundtrack for an unmade movie’ …if you think of it as a ‘song’ it’s not really going to work, but if you think of it as a cinematic ‘experience’ that is representative of the final moments before a ‘fundamental change’, it’s a cool adventure.
The name ‘The Big Snit’ was taken from a short cartoon from the Canadian national film board by the same name I grew up with. If you get a chance, look it up on YouTube … I guess my version here is simply a kind of heavy metal version of that :)”
Stream the single here: https://dvn.lnk.to/PrepareForWarTheBigSnit
If The Moth has a central gravitational theme, Townsend names it plainly: true self-acceptance. Something sturdier than slogans, closer to a practiced willingness to face what is uncomfortable without turning away. As Devin explains: “The most obvious metaphor for change within the concept of this project was a moth: from caterpillar to an entirely different creature—one so drawn to the light that it burns itself away. What remains is immutable—only the spirit.”
At the hardest moments, when abandoning the project might have seemed rational, Townsend points to the team as the decisive factor. A host of incredible musicians and contributors participated throughout the course of this process, as well as the North Netherlands Orchestra & Choir and orchestrators Joseph Stevenson & Niels Bye Nielsen. Long time band members Darby Todd, Mike Keneally, James Leach played a huge part, as well as guests including the Steve Vai, Anneke van Giersbergen, Lynn Wu (Ou), and artists Travis Smith & Eliran Kantor, plus key creative consultation from Mike St-Jean. The technical teams that worked tirelessly included co-mixer Chris Edrich, recording engineers Ben Searles & Jacob Hermann, Atmos mixer Ron Searles, Mastering engineer Troy Glessner, choirs in various countries throughout the world, and peripheral individuals that helped land this behemoth of a plane.
DEVIN TOWNSEND online:
https://www.hevydevy.com
https://www.facebook.com/dvntownsend
https://www.omerch.com
https://www.patreon.com/cw/DevinTownsend
https://twitter.com/dvntownsend
https://www.instagram.com/dvntownsend/
https://www.tiktok.com/@dvntownsend
https://www.youtube.com/user/poopynuggeteer/featured
https://twitch.tv/devin_townsend
Click Here to Subscribe to The Adventures of Pipeman for PERKS, BONUS Content & FREE GIVEWAYS!
Take some zany and serious journeys with The Pipe
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, you love don too censure wow for you young.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Pipe Man here on the Invention's Pipe
Man W four c Y Radio. And I'm very excited
about our next guest because there is music dropping tomorrow
that is like so badass I can't even believe it.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
So let's welcome to the show, Devin Townsend. Now are you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I'm good, buddy, Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Oh My Pleasure, or as you're probably better known as
pissy pants.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Man mayor of Groovytown. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Not a title that that one should sniff that man,
it takes a while to to reach that echelon.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So I gotta tell you, I was listening to the
new album Them, you know before it comes out, and
oh my god, I felt like I was in a
heavy metal, pink Floyd cinematic movie.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, man, I think I think the objective for
the Moth was essentially like like sort of like an
audio cinema. That it's like we're trying to make a
soundtrack for a movie that doesn't exist, I guess in
a sense. So I appreciate the acknowledgment of that. Man.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well, you know, It's funny because before I even read, like,
I read something, but before I ever read it, I'm like,
you know, after listening to music, I'm like, I was
going to ask you when's the movie going come out?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
And then I read something that said it's basically.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Like an unnamed movie. So it was like, the music
definitely sends that message.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, I appreciate it. I think that the main the
main objectives for any record that I have done throughout
my career, and specifically this one is too too as
accurately as as possible described through sound like a period
of time, right, like, yeah, in the past couple of years.
(02:12):
I mean, I don't know what your past couple of
years have been like, but uh, it's been a little.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Chaotic, and it is a bit chaotic in a lot
of ways.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So as a result of that, my typical way of
writing music has always just been like, whatever goes in
is going to come out right, And so having had
such such a chaotic few years, man, it's it's of
no surprise that that the music is as is as
over the top and strange as it is. But again,
(02:45):
the primary objective is to just be as accurate to
the vision as possible. So in that regard, yeah, that's
exactly what it needed to be well.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
And to me, music is the best therapy and it's
got to take you on a journey, and I think
we're kind of missing that in a lot of new
music these days because of people's attention span. They make
shorter songs and it's all singles and there's like no
flow to it. That's why I mentioned the Pink Floyd factor,
because like you listen at Darkseide, you go somewhere else, okay,
(03:15):
and you escape all the chaos. And I had that
same feeling listening to your new album. It was like,
I'm just on a journey somewhere.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Well, we're certainly all on journeys, right, And I think
that the journey for me is it included all this
work that I've done up to this point. And I've
said in a couple interviews so far that there's in
my mind at least a distinct before and after of
the Moth, and moving forward there will be all the
(03:46):
work that I had done prior, like the Strappings and
the Kingdoms and the Zeltoids and all that. And then
there was this weird gray pylon in the road, which
was the moth and then after that it's it's now
in a state of okay, so what's the next phase
for you? And not necessarily even on a musical level,
(04:09):
just like as a person, like where did you land?
Like where are you? And I think that if I
ever had any advice for any musicians that are up
and coming or younger musicians that maybe are looking to
the career that I've had, as you know, what would
you do? It's like you just have to be doggedly
(04:34):
in service of wherever you find yourself. And you know,
these things turn on a dime, like life changes, a
loss of friends and money and all these things that
go into it. It's you can't predict what is going
to happen with your life. But as an artist, I
think that the primary objective is like allowing your creative
(04:55):
catalyst to sort of go and whichever direction that seems
to like I want to go. And you know, I
think for myself over the years, the amount of times
that I've started a project in one place and then
ended in another is like eighty percent. And it's always
been to the chagrin of the record labels and whatever
they're Like you said, this was going to be an
(05:16):
easier record, said this was going to be this, and
I'm like, I know, but the circumstances had something else
in mind, right, So.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think that's what makes you a true musician, to
be honest, because like I remember when I was playing
guitar as a teenager and I did suck, but my
dad used to say, like, you should give that up.
You don't even know what you're doing. And what I
was doing at the time, I was saying, I was
just like experimenting what sounds I could make it do,
(05:47):
not like copy everybody else.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I just wanted to experiment.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And that's the vibe I got while I was listening
to him, like, oh man, that's something that I think
we need coming back and is starting to come back.
Is that musicianship where you're experimenting and not just doing
some cookie cutter thing to put something out there.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, it's it's a it's a risk though, you know
what I mean. It is it's like, uh, you know,
specifically when the visions in the scale of those visions
are as large as they tend to be with me,
it's like every time you do something, it costs you everything, right,
and uh, to be willing to sort of put that
sort of attention and focus onto ideas that are really
(06:31):
not commercially viable is always been where my interests lay.
And it's it's it's you know that I've been doing
it for so long now that I'm just like, I
just keep pushing that as far as I can go.
It's it's when somebody had said, you know, what's the
objectives of like what you're doing with your company or
with your record label and all this, I'm like, well,
tell you what it is. It's like, I like putting
(06:53):
together a bunch of brilliant artists who are maybe bored
with their normal jobs and you know whatever. It is
like taking the wrinkles out of Jim Carrey's neck for
number two or whatever, right like, and then see like, well,
let's apply that same kind of ferocious intent onto something
(07:15):
that's just like abstract in nature. And that's always been
where my interests lie. It's like, well, what can we
do that's creative, interesting and fun, that is rooted ultimately
in experimentation. It's it's like it's always been sort of
where my interests lie. And it's in some sense it's
(07:38):
a shame that that my interest never lay in like,
you know, what would be the best pop song that
we could write, or what would be the most would
be the most linear pathway to another heavy metal record.
It's like these things make a lot more sense in
twenty twenty six in the music industry as opposed to
let's just bury everything into this abstract, you know, orchestral
(07:59):
thing about the changing tides of my life personally and
life in general. Dude, it doesn't make any sense to
do something like this, but it's what I want to do.
So that's what we do and until such time that
we can't, And that's just what I do, you know,
And that's what my brand, I guess represents.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I think it should be that way.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I mean, I've always said, like, let the creativity be
for the artists and the business end be for the suits.
And I've been on both sides of the fence. But
I remember back in the eighties. I was in LA
in the eighties and a lot of my friends they
were getting signed and these record labels were telling them
how to change their music and change her look.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And I was like, yeah, no, I'm out. I'm out.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
That's why I didn't get good at guitar because I
was like, no, I wouldn't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I would want to be true to me, and you're
being true to you.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I am. And I think that the you know, the
practical realities of it are the things that are the
next step for me, because you know, I've got a
staff of people, and we've got mortgage and studio and
all the lights to keep on and all that, and
you you get to a point, I think at a
certain at a certain stage where you have decisions to make.
(09:14):
It's like in order to take certain steps, it's like,
you know, you can be asked to do this, like
whatever it is, like something that maybe compromises what your
intent is or maybe put you back in time doing
things that you've been over for a long time. Regardless
of what it is. Dude, it's like those options become
(09:35):
like like practical considerations. At some point you're just like, okay,
we can't continue like this, so do we do this
or whatever? And at that point, my whole reason to
be has been sort of contingent on that moment. But
it just keeps moving forward. You know. It's like it's
(09:55):
like I'm just like, Okay, I'm going to do this,
and by doing this, I'm never going to be able
to do this again. So there's been the amount of
times that I've chosen to go that route, whether it
was strapping back in the day or ziltoid or EmPATH
or dream piece or whatever, that frame of mind has
been like a big part of my trip. And every
time I do that, I'm like, Okay, damn the torpedoes,
let's do this, and then by this time next year
(10:17):
we'll probably be broken. We'll have to like quit. So
that's but you know, it's been thirty eight years of that, and.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
So you're still here.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
So the only thing that is also still here that
I would like to see go away is that constant
sort of amber alert anxiety feeling of like, yeah, the
ass is going to fall out of everything, right. But
I will say that I'm not alone with that feeling.
I'm sure most of us feel that at this point.
So I think that for me, the decisions to make
(10:47):
these things that are rooted much more and like you know,
frankly sort of selfish artistic musings. I figure, Man, if
we're going to have to do this anyway, I might
as well just do the things that I want to do,
as you know, utilizing all this stuff to just essentially
have a day job that I don't care.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
About, right yeah, And I mean that's why I say,
if you're going to be an artist, you might as
well be true yourself and and then you're going to
attract your tribe. You know, you're going to attract the
people that appreciate and understand or get something out of
what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
That's the hope. And I and I would much rather
have a smaller, uh group of those than than you know,
a larger group of people that I'm beholden to for
things that I no longer am interested in, right So so,
but I mean, do these shade these choices are are
ones that are not ones to be taken lightly. And
and also they're not ones that that happens so far
(11:47):
under the surface that you're not aware of them. Right Like, Like,
whenever I've made a decision to go and in in
uh in a direction that's like you know, fiercely non
you know, friendly, it hasn't been one that I was
(12:07):
an accident. It was like, okay, you can do this
if this is what your choice is. And I've chosen
to do that consistently but no more so than I
have with Moth, almost to draw a line in the sand.
It's almost like, you know, if by doing this industry
at large, it's like, yeah, it's not for us, it's
(12:28):
not for any part of the industry, including your demographic
Right at that point, I know that the decision I
need to make moving forward is like, Okay, well do
you still want to do this, because it's like, well,
this won't work. But if you go back to i
don't know, like playing metal full time in your mid
fifties or whatever, then you can kind of sustain this.
(12:50):
There's a part of it. It's just like, oh, well
there's my decision. Then yeah, you know, but I think
that the only way you're going to be able to
make a decision like that is to sort of damn
the torpedo.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And do it. Yeah, no risk, no reward.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well this is it. So basically I built a facility
and did the Moth and did Ruby Quaker and did
all these things. Not because it's a wise business move,
not because this is like some financial plan that I'm
you know, like by doing A to B two C.
At the end of it, you don't have to work anymore.
It's like none of that plays into it. I'm just like,
(13:24):
I'm like, the only things that interest me when it
comes to being a musician now are things like dream,
peace or moth or any of this abstract stuff. Right.
So I'm gonna do that with my full heart. And
if I'm meant to sustain a life as a professional musician,
then I'll know. And if I'm not, if it's like, no,
(13:47):
I didn't work, You're gonna have to scramble to try
and keep this going. I'm like, I'd rather not to
be honest, I don't blame it. Yeah, I'd rather have
a life that was like completely separate from this, like
nuke all of this and then just like say okay,
so and so the line in the sand for me
with the Moth was like it's either I do this
like this with this studio or I don't do it
(14:11):
at all. Yeah, And it's like, uh, you know, because
the others saying it's like, oh, will you do this
and you bring your costs down, you do this, and
then you go to the studio and you can do
it like put make sure that you focus on the
chorus or you know, make sure you're screaming more and
I'm just like, dude, I don't want to do that.
I just don't want to do it. So and what
would I rather do, dide, I'd rather do yard work.
I'd rather garden, I'd rather you know, like I'd rather
(14:35):
focus on mental health or my nutrition or things like that.
Those are things that I would prefer to do then
struggle to maintain a studio only to do music that
I'm no longer interested in. So the again, the line
in the Sand for the Moth and dream Piece and
Ruby Quaker was just like, I'm putting everything into this
(14:57):
not because I'm hoping that it will succeed, just because
if it doesn't, then it's way more efficient for me
to know.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, and you know, speaking of you know, mental health,
I mean if you're not if you're an artist, especially,
I think if you're not creating the music that is
you and your part of your soul, that is not
good for your mental health.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
It is not good for your mental or physical health
because you're constantly chasing the approval of people who expect
you to be something that you're not. So you're an
actor all of a sudden, and it's like, you know,
for me, I'm just like I have no desire to
do that, like, and it's not there's no flippancy to that,
(15:44):
there's no anger to it. It's just like, Okay, at
this age, what do you want to do? And so
basically I was like, when the Moth came up, and
when the idea of like you know, building a studio
or whatever came up, anybody in my world managed and
financially record labels just like, I don't know if that's
the best thing to do. And I'm like, well, I'm
(16:06):
gonna do it, and then at the end of it, I'll.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Know, Yeah, you don't know if you don't try. If
you don't try, you don't know anyway.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
So what I've done, this is what I've done. And
so you know, this record gets released tomorrow, and you know,
if everybody collectively is just like eh, then I'm like, okay, great,
So what's my next step in the year. What's my
next step in the year? Because when people are coming
back going, you know, you can continue to do things
like the Moth if you go out and you do
this and you you know, you do the you know,
(16:37):
you know all this sort of thing, and I'm just like, yeah,
but I don't want to I do. I'm cool with
doing things like the Moth. I'm cool with doing things
like dream Peace. I'm cool with doing things like Puzzle.
I'm cool with doing things like Axe Lotel or any
of these. Like, you know, I'm working on this crazy
like plug in product called the Seeker that's like interesting
(16:59):
to me. And even that, it's like I remember bringing
this this pedal plugin thing to the people that are
going to be building it for us, right, and they're like,
they're like, it's going to cost a fortune to do this,
and it's a super fucking weird product. You know, if
you want to make money, why don't you do like
a you know, a version of an eight oh eight
(17:19):
distortion pedal with like just a slightly different tone stack
in it. I'm like, cause it's fucking boring, dude, Like
I just don't care. There's like forty of those available
now that I don't have to invest in. Like, yeah,
but you can keep a sustainable enterprise going if you
do that, And I'm like, yeah, but I just that's
not what I want to do. It's like I don't
want to make pedals. I don't want to make overdrive pedals,
(17:41):
but I do want to make this secret thing. It's
super interesting to me. The same thing people are going, well,
you know, if you go back out and you play
metal and you go out and you do this sort
of thing with a full band and all this stuff,
you can kind of get those tours and keep going.
I'm like, yeah, I don't want to do that, though, Like.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I should say that part too, because I have this
memory from a couple of years ago that I absolutely
love your brutal honesty. I'm like originally from New York
and New Jersey, so I like brutal honesty. Okay, And
you were doing the press conference at Hellfest and you
were talking about touring and how like not the glorifying
(18:24):
of it, but the exact opposite. And it was so
funny because like I go and I do radio coverage
at festivals all over the US, UK, Europe, and like
last year, I only even think I had a weekend.
I wasn't at a festival with so much and people
are like, oh, you're living a dream life. And part
of that's true, yeah, but they don't see the other
(18:45):
part of it, like you talked about in the press
conference of like literally it's shit.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Sometimes it's like.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Taking a dump and a bag on a thirty five
degree day with Watain playing in the background at a
fucking one hundred and forty dB at twelve in the afternoon.
You know what I mean, You're just like you're like,
you know, like dude. But but again, this is where
it's interesting to me because the projects like the Moth
(19:15):
or the project Dreampece are puzzle or seeker, any of
these things that I'm currently doing, I'm interested in. They're fun.
So it's not like, although, like anything, there's certain aspects
of it that are struggle and require you know, tenacity
and diligence and whatever. Overall the things that I'm able
to do right now, I'm really like like psychedon, Like
(19:38):
it's fun for.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
You see that.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
That's the way it has to be in my opinion,
Like I say it all the time, if you're going
to be in the music business, you better have that
because otherwise everything else sucks, so you might as well
just go do something else.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
So that's what I'm saying. So we're gonna find out
what the Moth right like if it's if people are
just like, yeah, don't give a fuck about this, and
you know, right, so why should they it's not important.
It's just the next thing that I did right. But
if people don't like it, then dude, I know where
I'm at because I'm like, well, it's not getting any
more linear than this. I guarantee you, you know, moving forward, Man,
(20:15):
it's not gonna there's it's not gonna go more. This
is just a three and a half minute song about
how I've loved and lost and learned my lesson or
any of that shit. I'm just guy like, no, man,
I just it's either I make weird ass motherfucking shit
and do it with a group of people who are
incredibly creative, brilliant people and we enjoy the process because
(20:36):
it's things that are left to center, or I find
another thing to do right and I'm cool with that.
And this is the uh, this is the line in
the sand and I I and either way, I just
want to know it's there's no there's no like, oh
that's a shame or or oh that's surprising. I'm just
kind of like, Okay, good, where are we at. I
don't want to waste any more time. This is what
(20:58):
I do. This is who I You like it? No, okay, great? Thanks?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Well when I was listening to it.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I was thinking myself, oh man, he could do like
Danny Effman's doing and do some like Marvel movies or
DC movies or.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Something play well with others. Though when it comes to
that shit.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I don't even mean you doing them.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I mean just this music like it could apply to
something like that, you know, or it just has that
whole like I just was sitting, I was taking a
long drive and just listened to the whole thing and
I couldn't even tell where the song separated. A lot
of times with That's the killer about a whole album
(21:39):
that's like that, because it's like you are doing so
good that you don't even know that you're a different song.
That means you've escaped your reality. And that's what music
should do.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, I think you you escape it by by confronting it.
You know, the reality, and you know the more that
I have spent time with this project and with this
frame of mind, right, the frame of mind being specifically
I care about the audience, but my objectives are moving forward.
(22:15):
I don't want to do this unless I'm doing something
that interests me. Yeah, And the distinction between doing music
that interests me in music that doesn't interest me, or
is whether or not it applies to my current reality. Otherwise, dude,
you're not singing from any point reference point of authority.
(22:35):
You're just you're acting again, You're making it up. You're like,
what would somebody who thinks like this write? And it's like,
you know, the people who really follow the career, whether
or not they like where I've landed, they're gonna know
immediately they're like always full of shit.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, yeah, it's funny you should say that because, like
somebody have interviewed a few times, so I'm friendly with
Joe from the he knows I won't ask a certain
question that everybody else asks. So when are the Vandals
gonna have new music? He said, he'll do like in
the interview with me because he knows I won't ask.
He goes, and don't ask me when the Vandals are
gonna have new music, because nobody wants to see a
(23:15):
fifty something year old right punk rock music.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Or play industrial thrash metal. I mean, I think it's
like now and I've got to go to this next interview. Yes,
but now is really the point, not only in my
professional history, but I almost think just the world at large,
where we've had this opportunity to be thrust into a
(23:40):
reflective state on our own lives, on what the where
we place value, what has value at this point, whether
it was friends and family, or if it's work, or
if it's money or whatever it is. I think that
as a society, we've we've had the veil sort of
removed from these things that we had ascribed value to
for so long. You know, like any question it's like, oh,
(24:01):
you become famous, or you go to university for to
be a doctor or whatever, and then all of a sudden,
those things no longer hold the same kind of like
confirmed social uh collateral that they once did. You're just like,
oh shit, okay, so left with this as like an
actual option. Who are you? What do you want to do?
(24:26):
And I'm so grateful for being posed that question in
my own life. Would I like to be able to
continue doing what I do with the group of people
that I have in this place that I've you know,
built to do it? Hell yeah, but I don't want
to do it. If I have to do something that
(24:48):
I'm not interested.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
In, well I think it will happen.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Because the moth is badass just saying everybody's gotta check
it out. And I thank you for like making this
creative project that I think is just absolute pure musicianship.
You brother, and thanks for being on the Adventures of Pipemin.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
We'll talk to you soon and thanks again. Hey, this
is Devin Townsend and you are currently listening to the
Pipe Main on W four c Y Radio. Thank you
for listening to the Adventures of Pipemin on W for
CUI Radio.
Hi, you love don too censure wow for you young.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Pipe Man here on the Invention's Pipe
Man W four c Y Radio. And I'm very excited
about our next guest because there is music dropping tomorrow
that is like so badass I can't even believe it.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
So let's welcome to the show, Devin Townsend. Now are you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I'm good, buddy, Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Oh My Pleasure, or as you're probably better known as
pissy pants.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Man mayor of Groovytown. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Not a title that that one should sniff that man,
it takes a while to to reach that echelon.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So I gotta tell you, I was listening to the
new album Them, you know before it comes out, and
oh my god, I felt like I was in a
heavy metal, pink Floyd cinematic movie.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, man, I think I think the objective for
the Moth was essentially like like sort of like an
audio cinema. That it's like we're trying to make a
soundtrack for a movie that doesn't exist, I guess in
a sense. So I appreciate the acknowledgment of that. Man.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well, you know, It's funny because before I even read, like,
I read something, but before I ever read it, I'm like,
you know, after listening to music, I'm like, I was
going to ask you when's the movie going come out?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
And then I read something that said it's basically.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Like an unnamed movie. So it was like, the music
definitely sends that message.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, I appreciate it. I think that the main the
main objectives for any record that I have done throughout
my career, and specifically this one is too too as
accurately as as possible described through sound like a period
of time, right, like, yeah, in the past couple of years.
(02:12):
I mean, I don't know what your past couple of
years have been like, but uh, it's been a little.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Chaotic, and it is a bit chaotic in a lot
of ways.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So as a result of that, my typical way of
writing music has always just been like, whatever goes in
is going to come out right, And so having had
such such a chaotic few years, man, it's it's of
no surprise that that the music is as is as
over the top and strange as it is. But again,
(02:45):
the primary objective is to just be as accurate to
the vision as possible. So in that regard, yeah, that's
exactly what it needed to be well.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
And to me, music is the best therapy and it's
got to take you on a journey, and I think
we're kind of missing that in a lot of new
music these days because of people's attention span. They make
shorter songs and it's all singles and there's like no
flow to it. That's why I mentioned the Pink Floyd factor,
because like you listen at Darkseide, you go somewhere else, okay,
(03:15):
and you escape all the chaos. And I had that
same feeling listening to your new album. It was like,
I'm just on a journey somewhere.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Well, we're certainly all on journeys, right, And I think
that the journey for me is it included all this
work that I've done up to this point. And I've
said in a couple interviews so far that there's in
my mind at least a distinct before and after of
the Moth, and moving forward there will be all the
(03:46):
work that I had done prior, like the Strappings and
the Kingdoms and the Zeltoids and all that. And then
there was this weird gray pylon in the road, which
was the moth and then after that it's it's now
in a state of okay, so what's the next phase
for you? And not necessarily even on a musical level,
(04:09):
just like as a person, like where did you land?
Like where are you? And I think that if I
ever had any advice for any musicians that are up
and coming or younger musicians that maybe are looking to
the career that I've had, as you know, what would
you do? It's like you just have to be doggedly
(04:34):
in service of wherever you find yourself. And you know,
these things turn on a dime, like life changes, a
loss of friends and money and all these things that
go into it. It's you can't predict what is going
to happen with your life. But as an artist, I
think that the primary objective is like allowing your creative
(04:55):
catalyst to sort of go and whichever direction that seems
to like I want to go. And you know, I
think for myself over the years, the amount of times
that I've started a project in one place and then
ended in another is like eighty percent. And it's always
been to the chagrin of the record labels and whatever
they're Like you said, this was going to be an
(05:16):
easier record, said this was going to be this, and
I'm like, I know, but the circumstances had something else
in mind, right, So.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think that's what makes you a true musician, to
be honest, because like I remember when I was playing
guitar as a teenager and I did suck, but my
dad used to say, like, you should give that up.
You don't even know what you're doing. And what I
was doing at the time, I was saying, I was
just like experimenting what sounds I could make it do,
(05:47):
not like copy everybody else.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I just wanted to experiment.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And that's the vibe I got while I was listening
to him, like, oh man, that's something that I think
we need coming back and is starting to come back.
Is that musicianship where you're experimenting and not just doing
some cookie cutter thing to put something out there.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, it's it's a it's a risk though, you know
what I mean. It is it's like, uh, you know,
specifically when the visions in the scale of those visions
are as large as they tend to be with me,
it's like every time you do something, it costs you everything, right,
and uh, to be willing to sort of put that
sort of attention and focus onto ideas that are really
(06:31):
not commercially viable is always been where my interests lay.
And it's it's it's you know that I've been doing
it for so long now that I'm just like, I
just keep pushing that as far as I can go.
It's it's when somebody had said, you know, what's the
objectives of like what you're doing with your company or
with your record label and all this, I'm like, well,
tell you what it is. It's like, I like putting
(06:53):
together a bunch of brilliant artists who are maybe bored
with their normal jobs and you know whatever. It is
like taking the wrinkles out of Jim Carrey's neck for
number two or whatever, right like, and then see like, well,
let's apply that same kind of ferocious intent onto something
(07:15):
that's just like abstract in nature. And that's always been
where my interests lie. It's like, well, what can we
do that's creative, interesting and fun, that is rooted ultimately
in experimentation. It's it's like it's always been sort of
where my interests lie. And it's in some sense it's
(07:38):
a shame that that my interest never lay in like,
you know, what would be the best pop song that
we could write, or what would be the most would
be the most linear pathway to another heavy metal record.
It's like these things make a lot more sense in
twenty twenty six in the music industry as opposed to
let's just bury everything into this abstract, you know, orchestral
(07:59):
thing about the changing tides of my life personally and
life in general. Dude, it doesn't make any sense to
do something like this, but it's what I want to do.
So that's what we do and until such time that
we can't, And that's just what I do, you know,
And that's what my brand, I guess represents.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I think it should be that way.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I mean, I've always said, like, let the creativity be
for the artists and the business end be for the suits.
And I've been on both sides of the fence. But
I remember back in the eighties. I was in LA
in the eighties and a lot of my friends they
were getting signed and these record labels were telling them
how to change their music and change her look.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And I was like, yeah, no, I'm out. I'm out.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
That's why I didn't get good at guitar because I
was like, no, I wouldn't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I would want to be true to me, and you're
being true to you.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I am. And I think that the you know, the
practical realities of it are the things that are the
next step for me, because you know, I've got a
staff of people, and we've got mortgage and studio and
all the lights to keep on and all that, and
you you get to a point, I think at a
certain at a certain stage where you have decisions to make.
(09:14):
It's like in order to take certain steps, it's like,
you know, you can be asked to do this, like
whatever it is, like something that maybe compromises what your
intent is or maybe put you back in time doing
things that you've been over for a long time. Regardless
of what it is. Dude, it's like those options become
(09:35):
like like practical considerations. At some point you're just like, okay,
we can't continue like this, so do we do this
or whatever? And at that point, my whole reason to
be has been sort of contingent on that moment. But
it just keeps moving forward. You know. It's like it's
(09:55):
like I'm just like, Okay, I'm going to do this,
and by doing this, I'm never going to be able
to do this again. So there's been the amount of
times that I've chosen to go that route, whether it
was strapping back in the day or ziltoid or EmPATH
or dream piece or whatever, that frame of mind has
been like a big part of my trip. And every
time I do that, I'm like, Okay, damn the torpedoes,
let's do this, and then by this time next year
(10:17):
we'll probably be broken. We'll have to like quit. So
that's but you know, it's been thirty eight years of that, and.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
So you're still here.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
So the only thing that is also still here that
I would like to see go away is that constant
sort of amber alert anxiety feeling of like, yeah, the
ass is going to fall out of everything, right. But
I will say that I'm not alone with that feeling.
I'm sure most of us feel that at this point.
So I think that for me, the decisions to make
(10:47):
these things that are rooted much more and like you know,
frankly sort of selfish artistic musings. I figure, Man, if
we're going to have to do this anyway, I might
as well just do the things that I want to do,
as you know, utilizing all this stuff to just essentially
have a day job that I don't care.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
About, right yeah, And I mean that's why I say,
if you're going to be an artist, you might as
well be true yourself and and then you're going to
attract your tribe. You know, you're going to attract the
people that appreciate and understand or get something out of
what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
That's the hope. And I and I would much rather
have a smaller, uh group of those than than you know,
a larger group of people that I'm beholden to for
things that I no longer am interested in, right So so,
but I mean, do these shade these choices are are
ones that are not ones to be taken lightly. And
and also they're not ones that that happens so far
(11:47):
under the surface that you're not aware of them. Right Like, Like,
whenever I've made a decision to go and in in
uh in a direction that's like you know, fiercely non
you know, friendly, it hasn't been one that I was
(12:07):
an accident. It was like, okay, you can do this
if this is what your choice is. And I've chosen
to do that consistently but no more so than I
have with Moth, almost to draw a line in the sand.
It's almost like, you know, if by doing this industry
at large, it's like, yeah, it's not for us, it's
(12:28):
not for any part of the industry, including your demographic
Right at that point, I know that the decision I
need to make moving forward is like, Okay, well do
you still want to do this, because it's like, well,
this won't work. But if you go back to i
don't know, like playing metal full time in your mid
fifties or whatever, then you can kind of sustain this.
(12:50):
There's a part of it. It's just like, oh, well
there's my decision. Then yeah, you know, but I think
that the only way you're going to be able to
make a decision like that is to sort of damn
the torpedo.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And do it. Yeah, no risk, no reward.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well this is it. So basically I built a facility
and did the Moth and did Ruby Quaker and did
all these things. Not because it's a wise business move,
not because this is like some financial plan that I'm
you know, like by doing A to B two C.
At the end of it, you don't have to work anymore.
It's like none of that plays into it. I'm just like,
(13:24):
I'm like, the only things that interest me when it
comes to being a musician now are things like dream,
peace or moth or any of this abstract stuff. Right.
So I'm gonna do that with my full heart. And
if I'm meant to sustain a life as a professional musician,
then I'll know. And if I'm not, if it's like, no,
(13:47):
I didn't work, You're gonna have to scramble to try
and keep this going. I'm like, I'd rather not to
be honest, I don't blame it. Yeah, I'd rather have
a life that was like completely separate from this, like
nuke all of this and then just like say okay,
so and so the line in the sand for me
with the Moth was like it's either I do this
like this with this studio or I don't do it
(14:11):
at all. Yeah, And it's like, uh, you know, because
the others saying it's like, oh, will you do this
and you bring your costs down, you do this, and
then you go to the studio and you can do
it like put make sure that you focus on the
chorus or you know, make sure you're screaming more and
I'm just like, dude, I don't want to do that.
I just don't want to do it. So and what
would I rather do, dide, I'd rather do yard work.
I'd rather garden, I'd rather you know, like I'd rather
(14:35):
focus on mental health or my nutrition or things like that.
Those are things that I would prefer to do then
struggle to maintain a studio only to do music that
I'm no longer interested in. So the again, the line
in the Sand for the Moth and dream Piece and
Ruby Quaker was just like, I'm putting everything into this
(14:57):
not because I'm hoping that it will succeed, just because
if it doesn't, then it's way more efficient for me
to know.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, and you know, speaking of you know, mental health,
I mean if you're not if you're an artist, especially,
I think if you're not creating the music that is
you and your part of your soul, that is not
good for your mental health.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
It is not good for your mental or physical health
because you're constantly chasing the approval of people who expect
you to be something that you're not. So you're an
actor all of a sudden, and it's like, you know,
for me, I'm just like I have no desire to
do that, like, and it's not there's no flippancy to that,
(15:44):
there's no anger to it. It's just like, Okay, at
this age, what do you want to do? And so
basically I was like, when the Moth came up, and
when the idea of like you know, building a studio
or whatever came up, anybody in my world managed and
financially record labels just like, I don't know if that's
the best thing to do. And I'm like, well, I'm
(16:06):
gonna do it, and then at the end of it, I'll.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Know, Yeah, you don't know if you don't try. If
you don't try, you don't know anyway.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
So what I've done, this is what I've done. And
so you know, this record gets released tomorrow, and you know,
if everybody collectively is just like eh, then I'm like, okay, great,
So what's my next step in the year. What's my
next step in the year? Because when people are coming
back going, you know, you can continue to do things
like the Moth if you go out and you do
this and you you know, you do the you know,
(16:37):
you know all this sort of thing, and I'm just like, yeah,
but I don't want to I do. I'm cool with
doing things like the Moth. I'm cool with doing things
like dream Peace. I'm cool with doing things like Puzzle.
I'm cool with doing things like Axe Lotel or any
of these. Like, you know, I'm working on this crazy
like plug in product called the Seeker that's like interesting
(16:59):
to me. And even that, it's like I remember bringing
this this pedal plugin thing to the people that are
going to be building it for us, right, and they're like,
they're like, it's going to cost a fortune to do this,
and it's a super fucking weird product. You know, if
you want to make money, why don't you do like
a you know, a version of an eight oh eight
(17:19):
distortion pedal with like just a slightly different tone stack
in it. I'm like, cause it's fucking boring, dude, Like
I just don't care. There's like forty of those available
now that I don't have to invest in. Like, yeah,
but you can keep a sustainable enterprise going if you
do that, And I'm like, yeah, but I just that's
not what I want to do. It's like I don't
want to make pedals. I don't want to make overdrive pedals,
(17:41):
but I do want to make this secret thing. It's
super interesting to me. The same thing people are going, well,
you know, if you go back out and you play
metal and you go out and you do this sort
of thing with a full band and all this stuff,
you can kind of get those tours and keep going.
I'm like, yeah, I don't want to do that, though, Like.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I should say that part too, because I have this
memory from a couple of years ago that I absolutely
love your brutal honesty. I'm like originally from New York
and New Jersey, so I like brutal honesty. Okay, And
you were doing the press conference at Hellfest and you
were talking about touring and how like not the glorifying
(18:24):
of it, but the exact opposite. And it was so
funny because like I go and I do radio coverage
at festivals all over the US, UK, Europe, and like
last year, I only even think I had a weekend.
I wasn't at a festival with so much and people
are like, oh, you're living a dream life. And part
of that's true, yeah, but they don't see the other
(18:45):
part of it, like you talked about in the press
conference of like literally it's shit.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Sometimes it's like.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Taking a dump and a bag on a thirty five
degree day with Watain playing in the background at a
fucking one hundred and forty dB at twelve in the afternoon.
You know what I mean, You're just like you're like,
you know, like dude. But but again, this is where
it's interesting to me because the projects like the Moth
(19:15):
or the project Dreampece are puzzle or seeker, any of
these things that I'm currently doing, I'm interested in. They're fun.
So it's not like, although, like anything, there's certain aspects
of it that are struggle and require you know, tenacity
and diligence and whatever. Overall the things that I'm able
to do right now, I'm really like like psychedon, Like
(19:38):
it's fun for.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
You see that.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
That's the way it has to be in my opinion,
Like I say it all the time, if you're going
to be in the music business, you better have that
because otherwise everything else sucks, so you might as well
just go do something else.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
So that's what I'm saying. So we're gonna find out
what the Moth right like if it's if people are
just like, yeah, don't give a fuck about this, and
you know, right, so why should they it's not important.
It's just the next thing that I did right. But
if people don't like it, then dude, I know where
I'm at because I'm like, well, it's not getting any
more linear than this. I guarantee you, you know, moving forward, Man,
(20:15):
it's not gonna there's it's not gonna go more. This
is just a three and a half minute song about
how I've loved and lost and learned my lesson or
any of that shit. I'm just guy like, no, man,
I just it's either I make weird ass motherfucking shit
and do it with a group of people who are
incredibly creative, brilliant people and we enjoy the process because
(20:36):
it's things that are left to center, or I find
another thing to do right and I'm cool with that.
And this is the uh, this is the line in
the sand and I I and either way, I just
want to know it's there's no there's no like, oh
that's a shame or or oh that's surprising. I'm just
kind of like, Okay, good, where are we at. I
don't want to waste any more time. This is what
(20:58):
I do. This is who I You like it? No, okay, great? Thanks?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Well when I was listening to it.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I was thinking myself, oh man, he could do like
Danny Effman's doing and do some like Marvel movies or
DC movies or.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Something play well with others. Though when it comes to
that shit.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I don't even mean you doing them.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I mean just this music like it could apply to
something like that, you know, or it just has that
whole like I just was sitting, I was taking a
long drive and just listened to the whole thing and
I couldn't even tell where the song separated. A lot
of times with That's the killer about a whole album
(21:39):
that's like that, because it's like you are doing so
good that you don't even know that you're a different song.
That means you've escaped your reality. And that's what music
should do.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, I think you you escape it by by confronting it.
You know, the reality, and you know the more that
I have spent time with this project and with this
frame of mind, right, the frame of mind being specifically
I care about the audience, but my objectives are moving forward.
(22:15):
I don't want to do this unless I'm doing something
that interests me. Yeah, And the distinction between doing music
that interests me in music that doesn't interest me, or
is whether or not it applies to my current reality. Otherwise, dude,
you're not singing from any point reference point of authority.
(22:35):
You're just you're acting again, You're making it up. You're like,
what would somebody who thinks like this write? And it's like,
you know, the people who really follow the career, whether
or not they like where I've landed, they're gonna know
immediately they're like always full of shit.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, yeah, it's funny you should say that because, like
somebody have interviewed a few times, so I'm friendly with
Joe from the he knows I won't ask a certain
question that everybody else asks. So when are the Vandals
gonna have new music? He said, he'll do like in
the interview with me because he knows I won't ask.
He goes, and don't ask me when the Vandals are
gonna have new music, because nobody wants to see a
(23:15):
fifty something year old right punk rock music.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Or play industrial thrash metal. I mean, I think it's
like now and I've got to go to this next interview. Yes,
but now is really the point, not only in my
professional history, but I almost think just the world at large,
where we've had this opportunity to be thrust into a
(23:40):
reflective state on our own lives, on what the where
we place value, what has value at this point, whether
it was friends and family, or if it's work, or
if it's money or whatever it is. I think that
as a society, we've we've had the veil sort of
removed from these things that we had ascribed value to
for so long. You know, like any question it's like, oh,
(24:01):
you become famous, or you go to university for to
be a doctor or whatever, and then all of a sudden,
those things no longer hold the same kind of like
confirmed social uh collateral that they once did. You're just like,
oh shit, okay, so left with this as like an
actual option. Who are you? What do you want to do?
(24:26):
And I'm so grateful for being posed that question in
my own life. Would I like to be able to
continue doing what I do with the group of people
that I have in this place that I've you know,
built to do it? Hell yeah, but I don't want
to do it. If I have to do something that
(24:48):
I'm not interested.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
In, well I think it will happen.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Because the moth is badass just saying everybody's gotta check
it out. And I thank you for like making this
creative project that I think is just absolute pure musicianship.
You brother, and thanks for being on the Adventures of Pipemin.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
We'll talk to you soon and thanks again. Hey, this
is Devin Townsend and you are currently listening to the
Pipe Main on W four c Y Radio. Thank you
for listening to the Adventures of Pipemin on W for
CUI Radio.
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