February 16, 2026 • 50 mins
Lucky Papageorg, Exec. Dir. of the MA Auto Body Assoc. (MABA), advocates for independent collision repair professionals. He works closely with shop owners, policymakers and insurers on issues like labor rates, technician recruitment and training, repair quality & safety.
Matthew Ciaschini, co-owner of Full Tilt Auto Body & Collision, serves as Pres. of MABA's Board of Directors. He brings hands-on experience and an owner perspective with a focus on strengthening independent auto body shops.
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Matthew Ciaschini, co-owner of Full Tilt Auto Body & Collision, serves as Pres. of MABA's Board of Directors. He brings hands-on experience and an owner perspective with a focus on strengthening independent auto body shops.
Winning Business Radio is broadcast live Mondays at 4PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Winning Business Radio is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Winning Business Radio Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/winning-business-radio--3075598/support.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Churchill said, those who failed to learn from history are
condemned to repeat it. Kevin Helenan believes that certainly applies
to business. Welcome to Winning Business Radio here at W
four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com and
now your host, Kevin Helena.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Thanks everybody for joining in today. I am Kevin Hallanan
and welcome back to Winning Business TV and Radio on
W four cy dot com. We're streaming live on talk
four tv dot com. That's the number four. In addition,
we're on Facebook live at Winning Business Radio, and of
course we're going to be available after the live show
in podcast form wherever you get your podcast content. YouTube
(01:15):
by her radio, Spotify, Apple, and the list goes on
the mission of winning business radio and TV, as regular
viewers and listeners know, is to offer insights and advice
to help people avoid the mistakes of others, to learn
best practices, the how tos, the what tos, the what
not tos, to be challenged, and hopefully to be inspired.
Excuse me, inspired by the successes of others. Who are
(01:37):
those others consultants, coaches, business owners, advisors, authors, entrepreneurs, people
with some expertise. But you know, virtually every successful person
I've ever talked to has had some form of failure
in their lives and careers. So while we all have
to get our knees skinned once in a while, it's
my mission to keep those screeps scrapes from needing major surgery.
Let's endeavor to learn from history so we don't repeat it.
(02:00):
I've spent the better part of my career equipping businesses
to grow. Those are solopreneurs, all the way up to
small medium sized companies and way up to the fortune fifty.
I've seen some of those companies win, and to varying degrees,
I've seen some fail. I've had the opportunity to rub
elbows with some of the highest performing people around in
with some who probably should have found other professions. In
my own businesses, I've had lots of success, but some
(02:22):
failures too, and I like to think I've learned a
lot from those experiences. So you're going to hear from me,
but mostly you're going to hear from our guests. And
today we have two specific guests, Lucky Papa George, Executive
director of the Massachusetts Autobody Association, and Matthew Ceskini, President
of the Massachusetts Auto He's president of that association, on
(02:44):
the board of directors and co owner of Full Tilt
Autobody and Collision in West Hatfield, Massachusetts. That's Western mass
Here are their bios. As the executive director of the
Massachusetts Autobody Association, Lucky represents and advocates for independ collision
repair professionals across the state. In his role, Lucky works
(03:04):
closely with shop owners, industry stakeholders, policymakers, and insurers on
issues impacting autobody businesses, including labor rates, technician recruitment and training,
repair quality, and consumer safety. He's a frequent industry spokesperson
and a trusted voice on the operational and economic challenges
facing the collision repair industry in Massachusetts, with a focus
(03:25):
on ensuring safe, proper vehicle repairs and a sustainable future
for the trade. Matthew Cuscini is president of that association,
Massachusetts Autobody Association. He's on the board of directors and
co owner of Full Tilt Autobody and Collision. As you heard,
he brings hands on industry experience and a shop owner
perspective to his leadership role, with a focus on strengthening
(03:48):
independent autobody businesses and advancing repair standards worldwide. I've invited
them on to discuss what I would describe a serious
dysfunction within autobody regulations in massachuse you said, So, we're
going to get to that, but for now, Lucky and Matt,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Hey, Kevin, thank you for having It's Kevin? Are you?
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Owners both at some point another at at any rate.
Before we get to those problems, our listeners and viewers
want to know about you guys. So h, Matt, what
does you go first? Tell us about your family, where
you go up, where you live?
Speaker 5 (04:23):
All right, Well, I grew up in Western mass I
grew up in a town called Northampton. A lot of
people know that Homer Smith College. Yeah, so I grew
up there, went to hamp High and went to college
and Westfield State. Didn't know I was going to get
(04:46):
into autobody at all. Had a brother that was in
autobody in high school, went to Smith Vocational in Northampton,
and you know, went right into the career field right afterwards,
right after high school. Yeah, you know a series of
careers for me kind of in and out of different things,
(05:10):
fell backwards kind of into this, yeah, you know, in
the way that you do. And uh, my brother was
just starting a small body shop and I needed and
he needed some help. It was him and one other guy,
and he had no business acumen and I had done
some management.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And so you weren't you weren't eight years old playing
with the talker trucks, you know, as an autobody sir guy, right.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
I would say I always was a car guy, Like,
I always loved cars. I knew, you know, to do
certain things. I wouldn't say I was as hands on
as like my brother was, but you know, I I
soon assimilated cool lucky.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
Same question, how did you get into this business?
Speaker 7 (05:52):
Well, I kind of backed into it myself as well.
I went to college. I have a PS in biology.
I was a pre dental major. My path took me
a different way while I was working at Bank of Boston.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And then I ended up.
Speaker 7 (06:08):
Working for a rental car company and I was delivering
vehicles to collision shops and I got very friendly with
several of the owners or their underlings, and I was
looking for a change in what I wanted to do.
One of the gentlemen suggested that i'd take an appraiser's course,
which I did. In Massachusetts, you have to be licensed
(06:29):
in order to write motor vehicle damage. I successfully passed
that course back in nineteen eighty eight and have been
a license to praiser since. And I've managed some shops
and I had the good fortune back in nineteen ninety
of being approached to have the shop that I was
managing at the time join what was then the Massachusetts
Auto Body Association, just starting out, and it's grown since then.
(06:55):
The person who invited me in since left that position,
and I ended up becoming the ex executive director of
the association back in mid nineteen nineties and took a
little bit of a hiatus and for recently I came
back in nineteen I'm sorry, twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Matt, tell us how you started your business? Did you
start the business? I think he did and with whom?
Speaker 5 (07:18):
So, I'm actually in business with my brother. We, like
I said, he had started this small business. Just had
left a body shop that he was working at because
he saw that he could possibly get the business like that.
He you know, he was bringing a lot of business
to that place, and he wanted to, you know, see,
like can I go out on my own? And then
(07:40):
it was about eighteen months into that business. I was
in a previous profession. I got laid off and he
was looking for someone to help. I had been in
restaurant management, so I had a little bit of like
business acumen, I would say, and he asked me to
come in and help with the office. And then it
was a struggling small business. I had some money set aside.
(08:01):
I helped them out. We kind of bought in together,
and next thing we knew, we were business partners within
a year, and and then we've grown now over the
last sixteen years to have about twenty employees and a
much bigger body shop than what it started.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Out to be what are your specialties?
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Wow, that's that's interesting, I was. I mean, we're a
collision shop, so we primarily operate as doing insurance collision work.
We do obviously do customer pay and cut some custom
work you know, your your body work, paint and metal repair,
(08:46):
as well as like some you know, other sort of
I would say ancillary things like we have a little rental,
like a little vehicle rental. But primarily we know, we
focus on collision.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And this maybe an unfair question, but I want to
ask it anybody. What separates Full Till from other body shops?
Speaker 5 (09:08):
I would say customer service independence is also another thing.
We don't operate under any insurance contract, and I know
that can be a little confusing to people that don't.
Speaker 6 (09:20):
Understand and explain that.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
So in our industry, you basically have what are considered
direct repair programs. Those are called d rps in our world.
They technically don't exist in Massachusetts, but they do have programs.
And what you do is you sign up for a
program for an insurer. They basically make you sign to
(09:44):
their parameters, whether it be their parameters of repair, their
parameters of how much they pay per hour. Labor hour,
things they are willing to pay for the repair card.
Things they aren't. Things they might be part of a
business that normal shops that are independent can operate and
(10:07):
charge for it. You're not allowed to, but with the
kind of promise that they will shuffle you business without
the need to advertise or have you know, or possibly
not have the need to carry a reputation and you
know there there is obviously costs and advertising, so that
(10:31):
can look appealing to people. It also can be a
way that people have been doing business for a long
time and seemingly as hard for them to get out
of because it's a process that they've been dealing with
for a long time. We choose not to. We've we've
we've dipped our toe in that world once and we
decided we'll never do that again. We feel like we
(10:54):
can repair people's cars to the original equipment manufacturer standard
by being independent from the insurer, meaning like we can
do if you own a Toyota, I can do what
Toyota says to repair your car. I could prove it
to the insurer and they should pay the bill.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
I'm thinking we're going to get into that a little
bit more. Yeah, as we get to the problem side, right, Lucky,
tell us more about the association.
Speaker 7 (11:23):
Well, the association is made up of a mixture of
independent facilities as well as shops that are under program
or contract with insurance companies.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
We also have vendor members.
Speaker 7 (11:35):
Who'll provide services to the association, either through materials, parts
of services such as adask calibration, things of that nature.
Our main goal is to do what we can to
protect consumers, and in the process we're also benefiting our
members because you know, I'm fond of saying that if
(11:55):
the vehicle owner is being handled properly through the claims process,
then the body shop is as well. And you know,
as long as we're able to properly repair the vehicle
using the correct methods and be properly reimbursed to do so,
everybody is is made safe in that process because you know,
once we touch a vehicle, the liability is ours until
(12:18):
that vehicle ends up in a crusher.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
Interesting, which we were going to talk about a crusher today.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Uh, yeah, you know, it's it's the whole.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
It's a cradle to grave mentality, you know, and we
you know, Matt when he's repairing a vehicle and specifies
how it needs to be done. When it ensure may
or may not want to pay for a particular procedure,
Matt has the decision that from a liability standpoint, he
has to do that and somebody has to pay for it,
and that that's what it's coming down to, is being
(12:52):
able to be properly reimbursed to proper repairs so that
everybody is protected and you know, some repairs are made safely.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
All Right, We're going to take our first break right here,
just about a minute. Everybody will be back with Lucky
and Matt right after this.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
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Speaker 3 (14:59):
We're back with Papa George, executive director of Mass Autobody Association,
and Matthew Ciscini. I'm still impressed that I can said
that of the MASS president and UH on the board
of directors.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
Tell us UH actually lucky.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
A couple more questions real quick before we get into
the issues. I understand you on the road A bit
you you go out to shops a lot. I do, yeah,
and what not, only to be a good advocate. But
what are you learning when you're out with business owners.
Speaker 7 (15:28):
Well, you know, I see and hear from them all
the time the struggles that they're facing as far as
trying to entice young and new technicians and to keep
the technicians that they have.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Uh the you know, the average age in.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
Our industry right now technicians as well into the fifties.
And you know, the shops are there, their technicians are
aging out. I also get to visit a lot of
both technical schools and you know, and talk to the
students there and talk to them about what potential future
they have in this industry, which is which is a
great industry.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
You know, it's one that you know, there's a.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
Lot of pride in it being able to take something
that's been damaged and restored back to its pre law
as close as possible to its pre lost condition.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
And I noticed a name change as of January first
of this year. What was behind the name change.
Speaker 7 (16:18):
Years ago, probably eighteen or nineteen years ago, the association
transition from the Massachusetts Autobody Association incorporating the other three
associations in the state under the umbrella of the Alliance
of Automotive Service Providers, which was a national association. That association,
(16:40):
after twenty five years, disbanded in December of twenty twenty four.
We have been talking about going back to the Massachusetts
Autobody Association because the name says it all.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
It's as exactly who we're representing.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
I found it a lot easier when I go into
a collision facility to say who I'm representing in that fashion.
The fact that they went through that disbanding allowed us
to transition back to the Massachusetts Autobody Association, or MABA
as we called ourselves.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
All Right, so why are you guys so passionate about
advocating for the mass autobody industry.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Well, for me, it's pretty easy. You know, it's my industry.
It's what I take pride, and it's what we do
every day. But I would say, you know, it goes
back to you know, when I first went to the
meetings and we're a really small business and I saw
I think at the time it was a friend and
a guy I can call a friend now and Rick Starboard,
(17:40):
who was the president of the ASP at the time,
and uh, he has a shop in Revere Rick's Collision,
and he just I remember like somebody standing up, somebody
advocating for everyone in the room, talking about getting together,
talking about what you need to do in order to
(18:01):
better your business. You know that we're not there for
the insurers. We're there for the customers that come in
the door to repair their cars. It's all about that
kind of you know, we're on a business podcast, and
this is like trying to bring to an industry that
(18:22):
somehow has been beaten down over the years to not
understand anymore that they are a business and that like,
just because the insurers say that they're going to pay
you something or not pay you something, doesn't mean that
that's how you should run your business. I think it's
really important. And Lucky Can Can Can also dovetail on
this that it's this is where we're at now, is
(18:45):
trying to bring an independence to the people that are
operating these businesses in Massachusetts to say, we know the
labor rates unfair, We've got to do something about it.
Here we're the ones that are doing something about it.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
Lucky go ahead.
Speaker 7 (18:59):
Yeah, Well, I think part of my passion comes from
the David and Goliath mentality. I've always been on David's side,
not justs he won, but I've I've been been for
the little guy. And you know, the the issue within
the collision repair industry and that whole back and forth
(19:20):
between collision repair and insurance companies is what drives me
and and you know, wanting to do what's right mostly
for the consumer. And that's one of the things about
our association. You know, we talk about protecting the consumer
first because that then dovetails into the collision repair industry
being treated properly and being protected.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
All right, So you guys have talked about insurance reimbursement rates.
Why does that current system put drivers at risk?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Matt, you want to hit it first?
Speaker 5 (19:51):
Yeah, sure, Well there's not to go into an entire
history lesson in the state of but you know there
and Lucky you could probably speak to this better than
I can. But you know, it goes back to a
time in the eighties where they felt like costs were
running away from the insurers and they needed to have
(20:13):
some level of containment, and so it sort of starts there.
I don't know if you want to go into that history. Luck,
that's me.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
So back in nineteen eighty eight, there was the Insurance
Reform Act of nineteen eighty eight, and as Matt indicated,
it was a drive to try to contain costs and
keep insurance premium from skyrocketing, or that in their mind
skyrocketing back then. So back in nineteen eighty eight, the
average labor rate in Massachusetts was thirty dollars an hour.
(20:46):
Once the Reform Act went into play and they approached
body shops to sign contracts, and the major concession on
those contracts was a labor rate, the labor aiight actually
went from thirty dollars to twenty eight. And then part
of the language and the policy also indicates that an
insurer is only obligated to pay a rate across the
(21:08):
board that they can achieve by setting a rate within
a certain group of shops, So if they can get
a certain number of shops to agree, and then this case,
it was twenty eight dollars an hour, a labor rate
rolled back to thirty. Well, move forward to the year
twenty twenty six, and we're looking at an average laborate
in Massachusetts right now of between forty seven and forty
(21:31):
eight dollars an hour, which you know I think anybody
with any reasonable sense and knowing what's going on with
the cost of business, cost of living, you know, and
what it costs to just get a lawnmower, a bicycle
repaired in this state, let alone, you know, a vehicle
at a mechanical shop, knows that that is an unfair
and unreasonable rate. And the suppression has been brought on
(21:54):
by insurance insurers. And regardless of how much we have
appealed to them to try to raise the minimum reimbursement rate,
they've been very resistant to that. They point at the
fact that premiums will go up.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
That is their age old argument.
Speaker 7 (22:13):
The insurance premiums have been going up regardless and they
have you know, the labor rate has not kept pace
with what it has cost from nineteen ninety to today
to run a business to be able to pay for
insurance for your employees, to be able to provide them
with a pay scale that entices people to come into
(22:34):
the industry, especially young people. You know, if you can
get paid more to drive a truck for Amazon than
you can to repair that Amazon truck, something is really wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
And then obviously the lack of technicians there are book
tech schools. I'm sure that teach autobody, and yet they're
not going to the field even though they have learned it.
Speaker 7 (22:55):
Yeah, and unfortunately, there's been a trend to re moving
the autobody factor or auto body component of a vocational school.
You know, notoriously over the years, the autobody section of
a vocational school was you know, basically a dumping round.
A lot of times they would be you know, put
the problem student there, someone who could work with their hands. Nowadays,
(23:20):
to work on today's vehicles, you have to be part chemists,
you have to be idle electrician. There's just so much
going on in today's vehicles. There's more code, computer code
in today's vehicles than in the rocket that went to
the moon, you know, and you know, to try to
balance out getting paid what we're getting paid per hour
versus other industries, it's a challenge to entice young folks
(23:44):
into it in the vocational schools.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
So for now it seems like a shop owner problem,
but I know it's not. What does the public need
to know.
Speaker 7 (23:53):
Well, the public needs to know that there is a
price to be paid for keeping up with today's technology
the vehicles. From the time that I get into this
in nineteen ninety early nineties to today, they're not the
same vehicle, and unfortunately, insurers are trying to reimburse as
if we're fixing those.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Vehicles, not today's vehicles.
Speaker 7 (24:16):
You know, the technicians that are that are in the
field today and that are trying to come into this
field the equipment that they have to purchase. Notoriously, the
technician owns all of their equipment. Some shops do provide
some equipment, especially the high priced items like the frame machines,
things of that nature, but primarily, you know, the technician
(24:36):
is expected to have a very substantial toolbox.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
And able to work on vehicles, and those tools vary
from mate to make as well, so it's not as
easy as just having you know, a pair of vice
scripts as an example, or some other tool. You know
that there's a lot of speciality.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
Yeah, and I think also just the reason why this
is more than a shop issue or more than a
small business issue is is that you know, these are real, living,
breathing humans that sit in that driver's seat and that
have to go, you know, seventy miles an hour down
the highway and know that if something happens that that
car is going to perform properly for them, and you know,
(25:21):
the attempt to do so is at you know, forty
eight dollars an hour. Seems just completely unreasonable and honestly
bananas to most customers when you mentioned it to them,
they almost don't understand how any shop operates at that.
When it becomes a volume game, all of those things
(25:43):
that businesses do, you know, in the economy of scale
to make this thing happen. That's not how it should be.
It should be that, you know, you figure out what
your operating costs are and your labor rate is based
on that, and then it has to be competitive in
the market. We do not have that in our business.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I can also imagine, I don't want to be too
negative here, but I can also imagine a small percentage
of unscrupulous people who would not fix the car right
because they're not getting paid to fix it right.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (26:19):
Unfortunately, unfortunately, we see that all too often. And you know,
a vehicle, especially because most consumers don't understand their vehicles
from the get go. You know, cosmetically, a vehicle can
look near perfect after an accident. You know, there's always
something that you can find that might be a little
bit off. Unfortunately, it's what's going on behind the scenes
(26:41):
that can have a tremendous negative effect, not only for
that vehicle and the people who are in that vehicle,
but everyone who is sharing the roads with them.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
It's not just because that vehicle was repaired.
Speaker 7 (26:53):
The people that are sharing the road also run into
a jeopardy because, you know, especially with ADAS and the
fact that a lot of these vehicles have automatic braking systems,
lane steering, things of that nature, if the repair isn't
done properly, an eight an airbag may not trigger correctly
through no fault of that driver if they get hit,
(27:14):
you know, or they're being steered unconsciously because they've We've
all grown to rely on our aid DAS systems, the
Advanced Driver Assistant Systems is what ADAS stands for, you know,
We've all grown to rely on it in some part
that if when we get our vehicles back, it's not
reacting the way it should be, it's jeopardizing everyone.
Speaker 6 (27:38):
Is this limited to Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
No, by no means.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
It's just that Massachusetts currently is the lowest paid state
in the country when it comes to reimbursement rate. As
I said, The average in Massachusetts is around between forty
seven and forty eight dollars an hour. The national average
for the country is around sixty nine dollars.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
But you know again, that's an average.
Speaker 7 (28:04):
The highs of it at Massachusetts is one of the
is the second highest state in the Union in which
to own and run a business based on our class
of living here in.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Mass Guys, we're going to take our second break. Be
about another minute, and viewers and listeners will be back
in just a minute with Lucky in Matt.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
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Speaker 3 (30:18):
So we're back with Lucky in matt There's been a
trend of businesses closing. Autobody business is closing, right, what
does that look like?
Speaker 7 (30:27):
Well, there has been a drop off in the number
of businesses collision repair of businesses in Massachusetts over the
last ten fifteen years, and a lot of it has
to do with the lack of technicians as far as
drawing new technicians into the business, the lack of a
return on an investment.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
You know, people look to grow.
Speaker 7 (30:48):
Their business and unfortunately it's a real challenge as you know,
and again we don't want to just harp on the
labor rate, but there's a lot of challenges in the industry,
environmental controls, things of that nature that we have to
contend with.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
That a lot of people, you know, they'd rather not
have to deal with that.
Speaker 7 (31:05):
So when it comes to aging out, not only the technicians,
but the shop boners are too And if you don't
have a business that you're able to either pass on
or sell because it has value to it, the option
is to basically close down. And the long term effect
on that is, you know, a longer way for consumers
that have accidents, they're on as many choices in their
(31:27):
particular area to get a vehicle properly repaired.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
So what is the solution? Probably not an easy answer book.
I mean, we always does have a plan, right, I.
Speaker 7 (31:38):
Wish I had a magic wand yeah, well, I think
a lot of it has to do with what we're
doing right now, which is educating the consumer as to
what they need to understand when it comes to collision repair.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
You know, the it's an.
Speaker 7 (31:52):
Adversarial situation between the collision but repair facility and the
insurance industry. You know, they're trying to pay as little
as possible. The collision repair facility wants to make sure
that they're repairing the vehicle properly. The consumer needs to understand,
in my mind, who they should be allying with, and
they cannot afford to let the insurance industry basically brainwash
(32:15):
them into thinking that it's just a matter of a
body shop trying to just make more money. And then
notorious for saying that. They don't say we want to
keep more money for themselves. They want to say that
we're just trying to make more money and that you
know that we're over repairing vehicles is a common quote
by insurance companies. You know, Matt will tell you that
(32:36):
to properly research a vehicle to fix it according to
the OEM specifications today could take hours of research alone,
because those techniques can change from one day to the
next on the very same vehicle. He has to be
able to document everything that was a proper repair procedure
(32:57):
at the time he was repairing that specific vehicle, well,
not a Toyota three weeks ago doing the same thing
today he has to relook everything up, make sure he's
doing everything correctly.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
That's something back could probably speak a little bit more too.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
And it's constantly changing. We've seen vehicles that didn't change
model wise, but have changed a procedure for change something
for one procedure dozens of times, so you could look
something up one day and a week later that procedure
has changed just based on whatever engineer has said. No,
(33:33):
you know, we thought we had it, Now we need
to do this. And you know, again, at forty eight
dollars an hour, it sounds pretty daunting because it is.
Speaker 9 (33:46):
So.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
I know, you guys lobby the state House, the governor,
I'm imagining the legislature. In fact, you've got Brian Bernard.
I'll give him a shout out, Total Care, accident Repair
and Rainham as a legislative rep.
Speaker 6 (33:56):
What have those efforts looked like? And are you winning?
You know, what does it look like?
Speaker 7 (34:03):
It depends on your definition of winning. I guess we're
definitely making headway. You know, we we've we've done a
great deal of had a great deal of discussion with
the legislatures, with the regulators such as the Commissioner of
Insurance as a new insurance commissioner in who's been in
place now for a little over a year. And you know,
(34:24):
our goal is to have them understand what it is
that we contend with in our businesses through shop visits,
which are very much eye opening when it comes to
what a legislator may have thought is going on in
a collisionary pay a facility versus what actually goes on and.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
What you got to talk to the ones that have
had repairs.
Speaker 7 (34:44):
Well, that's something that Matt can tell you about that
there are.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
Some My local senator has been a been here in
my facility and she actually has been forced to pay
a bill because the INSURAN didn't fully reimburse her. And
she's been an advocate and great. You know, I'll leave
her a name out of it because I don't know
(35:08):
she wants to be named. But you know, I've this
is a constant conversation that we have. They understand because
they're consumers too, but you know, we have to have
this conversation holistically. With our customers. I think that's not
just legislation that again harkening back to how does a
(35:30):
business run, but also do the thing for the consumer
all the time. What we need to do is educate
them so if they have an if you can tell
a customer, we have to do a through z to
your vehicle because you own a Toyota, this is what
Toyota says we have to do to it. You're ensure
doesn't want to pay for four or five of these things?
(35:52):
Do you want us to do them to the car
because we feel we have to do them to the car.
If there is something additional, you may have a balance.
And then as long as that customer agrees, you know,
they can advocate for themselves to their ensure. We can
continue to advocate for them to get the proper repair.
(36:12):
But I think that's part of the education of what
MAB is trying to do is explain to all of
the shops in our state that you know, we can't
just keep going along the same way we've been going.
It'spect a different result.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
I don't know if you'd know this number, but is
there any kind of success rate when a customer complains
advocates for themselves to the insurance company.
Speaker 7 (36:37):
I would say more times than I couldn't give you an
exact number, more times than not, the squeaky wheel gets
the oil.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (36:43):
Well, the insurance industry, as much as Matt may argue
for a particular point and be told no and has
to balance bill a customer for whatever that procedure was,
in more cases than not being reimbursed because the consumer
is armed with the right information by a shop like Matt,
(37:03):
they'll provide them that information, and the insurance companies don't
want to lose a customer. They're just banking on somebody
not challenging them. And that goes the same thing with
collusion repair shops. Far too many repair shops are not
willing to put in that extra effort, and that's one
of the things that we try to help our membership
do is learn how to advocate for their customers and
(37:28):
for themselves.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
I think it's important, Kevin not to be as serious
as this example. But the medical industry, in our industry,
they're both reimbursed mostly by insurers. People do almost never
block at a bill that comes in the mail from
a doctor, But for some reason, our industry has been
(37:50):
so beaten down that people don't want to pay an
extra dime because they feel their car insurance should be
covering everything. You know, we would never allow and ensure
in the middle of a surgery to say no, don't
cut there, No, no, no, don't take that out. Yeah,
but we allow our industry.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yeah, that's crazy. That's a good analogy. So consumers worry.
My guess is that higher imbursement higher reimbursement rates would,
as one of you suggested, would increase premiums.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (38:23):
It will, But it's a matter of by how much.
I mean.
Speaker 7 (38:27):
I think that a quick study had been done that
if the labor rate went up ten dollars an hour
would have should have zero or no effect on the
actual premium dollars. You know, a twenty five dollars it's
a thirty dollars increase in labor rate might have a
ten or twenty dollars increase on a particular premium. Because
we're also not talking about the entire premium.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Right. The insurance company is.
Speaker 7 (38:53):
A grade at numbers, and that whole issue about how
to put tray numbers. They'll tell you that it will
make the insurance premium. Insurance premiums will increase by twenty percent. Well,
somebody will look at that fifteen hundred dollars or two
thousand dollars premium from last year and go, oh my god,
that's a huge figure. Well they're talking about the collision
(39:15):
portion of that two thousand, which is a minimal amount.
The overwhelming degree or component of your insurance premium is
medical and legal. It's not the collision. And that's something
that people don't realize. We're made to be the bad
boys and the equation when we're not. It's all the
(39:35):
lawsuits and the physical issues that come out of accidents.
And that's a key component too, is that the technology
changes that have been driven are being driven by the
insurance industry to help minimize not accidents necessarily, but the
amount of soft tissue damage that transpires in a collision loss,
(39:56):
because that's where they're really feeling the the pain on
their rent when it comes to having to settle a
laws suit, pay for extended medical care and things of
that nature.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
It's not the collision aspect of it.
Speaker 7 (40:10):
So technology like the advanced driver assistant systems, accident avoidance,
airbag seat belts, all of those items that they don't
even want to pay for safety checks on after a
loss or have them properly scanned after a loss to
make sure they're functioning properly. They don't want to pay
adequately for that. And again, you know we alluded to
(40:32):
it earlier. There's a lot of shops that are just saying, Okay,
it looks good on the outside, we'll keep our.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Fingers crossed that it doesn't get into an accident.
Speaker 7 (40:40):
And you know, proper and safe repairs, as our campaign
is saying, is no accident. It takes a great deal
of diligence on the part of collision repairs their technicians
to make sure that they are properly repairing the vehicles.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
All right, So what if nothing changes? What if ten years,
five years, ten years from now there's no change. What
does that mean for the consumer? What does that mean
for the shop owner?
Speaker 5 (41:04):
Well, I think it could be very much like what
we see in a lot of industry is you're going
to see the biggest of players come in that can
sustain low reimbursement through consolidation, and you'll have less and
less places to fix your car. They will have a
(41:26):
harder and harder time getting people to work and be
able to repair a car. And I think we will
slowly get into a very impersonal model on how people
fix their cars. You know, there may be the day
where you go to a kiosk, you drop your keys
in a box and they call you two weeks later
when that thing is supposedly done and you come and
(41:49):
pick it up and you don't know anything about what
happened in between. A business like mine needs to stay
on top of the customer. You know, we have a
policy here where we update everyone every forty eight hours
because a car could be here for three weeks if
you have a major collision, procurement of parts, and also
(42:11):
trying to work with the insurer for a customer at
the same time. People aren't just like accepting these major repairs.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
And writing checks.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
We always want to advocate for the customer as much
as possible and get things reimbursed. But you know, I
don't know. I think it's it would be I would
liken it to the medical industry again. I'm sorry. I
always go back to that sting you want to make
humans into cars. But what we have to look at
(42:42):
is do you have a small hometown doctor that you
go to Kevin or a big like facility where you're
a number. You feel like you got to pull the
deli number and you go.
Speaker 6 (42:56):
In and it depends on what I'm going there for.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
The primary care yeah, yes, knows me, well, knows my
wife well, everybody else not really.
Speaker 5 (43:04):
Yeah, So we see medical going that way. We don't.
We don't want collision to go that way. You don't
want to lose your your local mechanic either, you know.
But at least that mechanic can name their price. They
can say, what, hey, my my operating costs are this,
so my labor rate is that when we're dealing with
(43:25):
a reimbursement rate, it's being forced upon us.
Speaker 7 (43:29):
Right, And that's something that the consumer has to understand, Kevin,
is that that is a that's exactly the terminology that
needs to be used by the insurance company. This is
the amount we're willing to reimburse where they but what
they try to do is convince the consumer, the vehicle owner,
that that's the labor rate that the body shop should
be charging, that that's all that it's worth. And anyone
(43:52):
that you sit down and explain it to is Matt
indicated when you when they come in with an estimate
if you take the time and show them that of
that at eight thousand dollars repair, this amount of it
is my labor. The rest of it is parts materials,
services that have to be done on top of you know,
like the adask checking and scanning and pre scanning and
(44:14):
post scanning and calibration. That the labor rate is such
a small component of that. You know, an increase should
have a minimal effect on the premium, but have a
major effect on our businesses being able to bring in
new technicians, to continue proper training, to stay current with
the equipment and everything that is made necessary to repair
(44:37):
today's vehicles.
Speaker 6 (44:40):
So is this a legislative solution, as you guys see.
Speaker 7 (44:43):
It, It's something that we it should be just like
any of the business. We should be able to set
our rates, just like we allude to mechanics, right, they
set their rate. It's what the market will bear, it's
what they're able to promote as far as their expertise
and why they should be selected in the repair process.
(45:03):
With insurance having that ability to suppress it, we've turned
to legislation.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
We've had no choice to.
Speaker 7 (45:12):
You know, we've had commissions, two commissions going all the
way back to two thousand and eight, we just finished
a laborate advisory board.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
All three of those.
Speaker 7 (45:21):
Indicated that the laborrate needed to be significantly increased in
order to keep pace with what's been going on in
our industry. And you know, that's now been presented to legislators,
it's been presented to the Commission of Insurance, it's been
presented to the AG's office, and where our hopes are
that they will take steps, because the insurance industry has
(45:44):
proven that they absolutely will not.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
And the only people that really get hurt are the.
Speaker 7 (45:48):
Vehicle owners paying thousands of dollars and the not getting
what they should be in return.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah, Matt, if i'm you, you know, I'm a business
owner from you, I need to get paid what I'm worth.
And so if that the customer has a bill, which
to your point, the good shops will tell them that
upfront and they get to opt in for that. Yeah,
that's the way I'm going to run my business, so
I can rely, you know, have my standard of living.
It's not you know, it's a business. It's supposed to everything, right.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
Yeah, exactly, And it's your employee standard of living too, right,
you know, I look around, I have family, you know
here this is this is not just a family owned business.
But you know I have guys that have worked for
me for fifteen years and that there they are like family,
and I want to be able to increase their pay
like a person should be increased as they go along
and maybe even outpace the CPI. That would be amazing, right,
(46:41):
You get somebody that is worth the money. They're an
expert in what they do. They could go into any field,
working with their hands and be an ace and do
it unquestionably, because this is an extremely, extremely hard discipline.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
We are out of time. The last part of this
is not the last part, but it was inherent, but
I wanted to emphasize it more. Autobody shops need to
join the association.
Speaker 7 (47:07):
Correct, yes, absolutely, absolutely, you know it's it's I have
a great little diagram that I show of a school
of fish in the shape of shaping themselves into a
big fish eating a shark. Yeah, and that's what it's about.
It's you know, we we we have to join hands.
There's not you know, we.
Speaker 4 (47:27):
Need to look at each other as colleagues.
Speaker 7 (47:29):
We've we've been too long, been taught to look at
each other as competitors.
Speaker 6 (47:33):
Yeah, we all have.
Speaker 7 (47:35):
A common goal and that's to do what's right for
our customers thereby you know, making our businesses better, all.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Right, So we want people to reach out matt Why
should they reach out to you? There's the uh, your
information has gone across several times in the crawl. But
give them your contact info info one more.
Speaker 5 (47:50):
Sure, you can just reach out to me through my
website Full Tilt Autobody dot com. Okay, email me at
info or email me at my email till dot Matthew
at gmail dot com. I'm I'm here for advice. I'm
here for the reason why you should join the association.
I believe in it wholeheartedly. I wouldn't be the president
(48:12):
if I didn't. And Lucky's here working hard for our members.
So once you become a member, you have him right
behind you with all the advice that you possibly could
need on how to succeed as a business, but also
like you know, how to succeed as a as a
person in this industry, because it really comes down to
(48:33):
how do you do it and be able to sleep
well at night and feel good about what you do?
And that's really important to me. I know it's really
important to Luck and that's how we do things.
Speaker 6 (48:44):
So Lucky, share your info one more time.
Speaker 7 (48:47):
Sure, that's the Massachusetts Autobody Association.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
You can reach us.
Speaker 7 (48:51):
At mass mass Autobody dot org. There's a our website
has a lot of consumer information on it is a
map of the state on there with all of our
current members listed that they can refer to. You can
always call our main office number seven six one seven
five seven four zero seven four one.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
We're here to help consumers and body shops alike.
Speaker 7 (49:15):
We have calls all the time from consumers they feel
that they've been wrong either buy, the insurance industry, and
sometimes the body shops.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
So guys, thank you for being here, and thank you
for viewers and listeners for being attached to the program.
Come back next week, viewers and listeners, Monday, February twenty third.
We'll do it all over again. Matt Lucky, thank you
for being here.
Speaker 4 (49:36):
Thanks Keviny opportunity, Kevin appreciate it. You bet.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
You've been listening to Winning Business Radio with your host
Kevin Helene. If you missed any part of this episode.
The podcast is available on Top four Podcasting and iHeartRadio.
For more information and questions, go to Winning Business Radio
dot com or check us out on social media. Tune
in again next weekend every Monday at four pm Eastern
(50:01):
Time to listen live to Winning Business Radio on W
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(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Churchill said, those who failed to learn from history are
condemned to repeat it. Kevin Helenan believes that certainly applies
to business. Welcome to Winning Business Radio here at W
four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com and
now your host, Kevin Helena.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Thanks everybody for joining in today. I am Kevin Hallanan
and welcome back to Winning Business TV and Radio on
W four cy dot com. We're streaming live on talk
four tv dot com. That's the number four. In addition,
we're on Facebook live at Winning Business Radio, and of
course we're going to be available after the live show
in podcast form wherever you get your podcast content. YouTube
(01:15):
by her radio, Spotify, Apple, and the list goes on
the mission of winning business radio and TV, as regular
viewers and listeners know, is to offer insights and advice
to help people avoid the mistakes of others, to learn
best practices, the how tos, the what tos, the what
not tos, to be challenged, and hopefully to be inspired.
Excuse me, inspired by the successes of others. Who are
(01:37):
those others consultants, coaches, business owners, advisors, authors, entrepreneurs, people
with some expertise. But you know, virtually every successful person
I've ever talked to has had some form of failure
in their lives and careers. So while we all have
to get our knees skinned once in a while, it's
my mission to keep those screeps scrapes from needing major surgery.
Let's endeavor to learn from history so we don't repeat it.
(02:00):
I've spent the better part of my career equipping businesses
to grow. Those are solopreneurs, all the way up to
small medium sized companies and way up to the fortune fifty.
I've seen some of those companies win, and to varying degrees,
I've seen some fail. I've had the opportunity to rub
elbows with some of the highest performing people around in
with some who probably should have found other professions. In
my own businesses, I've had lots of success, but some
(02:22):
failures too, and I like to think I've learned a
lot from those experiences. So you're going to hear from me,
but mostly you're going to hear from our guests. And
today we have two specific guests, Lucky Papa George, Executive
director of the Massachusetts Autobody Association, and Matthew Ceskini, President
of the Massachusetts Auto He's president of that association, on
(02:44):
the board of directors and co owner of Full Tilt
Autobody and Collision in West Hatfield, Massachusetts. That's Western mass
Here are their bios. As the executive director of the
Massachusetts Autobody Association, Lucky represents and advocates for independ collision
repair professionals across the state. In his role, Lucky works
(03:04):
closely with shop owners, industry stakeholders, policymakers, and insurers on
issues impacting autobody businesses, including labor rates, technician recruitment and training,
repair quality, and consumer safety. He's a frequent industry spokesperson
and a trusted voice on the operational and economic challenges
facing the collision repair industry in Massachusetts, with a focus
(03:25):
on ensuring safe, proper vehicle repairs and a sustainable future
for the trade. Matthew Cuscini is president of that association,
Massachusetts Autobody Association. He's on the board of directors and
co owner of Full Tilt Autobody and Collision. As you heard,
he brings hands on industry experience and a shop owner
perspective to his leadership role, with a focus on strengthening
(03:48):
independent autobody businesses and advancing repair standards worldwide. I've invited
them on to discuss what I would describe a serious
dysfunction within autobody regulations in massachuse you said, So, we're
going to get to that, but for now, Lucky and Matt,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Hey, Kevin, thank you for having It's Kevin? Are you?
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Owners both at some point another at at any rate.
Before we get to those problems, our listeners and viewers
want to know about you guys. So h, Matt, what
does you go first? Tell us about your family, where
you go up, where you live?
Speaker 5 (04:23):
All right, Well, I grew up in Western mass I
grew up in a town called Northampton. A lot of
people know that Homer Smith College. Yeah, so I grew
up there, went to hamp High and went to college
and Westfield State. Didn't know I was going to get
(04:46):
into autobody at all. Had a brother that was in
autobody in high school, went to Smith Vocational in Northampton,
and you know, went right into the career field right afterwards,
right after high school. Yeah, you know a series of
careers for me kind of in and out of different things,
(05:10):
fell backwards kind of into this, yeah, you know, in
the way that you do. And uh, my brother was
just starting a small body shop and I needed and
he needed some help. It was him and one other guy,
and he had no business acumen and I had done
some management.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And so you weren't you weren't eight years old playing
with the talker trucks, you know, as an autobody sir guy, right.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
I would say I always was a car guy, Like,
I always loved cars. I knew, you know, to do
certain things. I wouldn't say I was as hands on
as like my brother was, but you know, I I
soon assimilated cool lucky.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
Same question, how did you get into this business?
Speaker 7 (05:52):
Well, I kind of backed into it myself as well.
I went to college. I have a PS in biology.
I was a pre dental major. My path took me
a different way while I was working at Bank of Boston.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And then I ended up.
Speaker 7 (06:08):
Working for a rental car company and I was delivering
vehicles to collision shops and I got very friendly with
several of the owners or their underlings, and I was
looking for a change in what I wanted to do.
One of the gentlemen suggested that i'd take an appraiser's course,
which I did. In Massachusetts, you have to be licensed
(06:29):
in order to write motor vehicle damage. I successfully passed
that course back in nineteen eighty eight and have been
a license to praiser since. And I've managed some shops
and I had the good fortune back in nineteen ninety
of being approached to have the shop that I was
managing at the time join what was then the Massachusetts
Auto Body Association, just starting out, and it's grown since then.
(06:55):
The person who invited me in since left that position,
and I ended up becoming the ex executive director of
the association back in mid nineteen nineties and took a
little bit of a hiatus and for recently I came
back in nineteen I'm sorry, twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Matt, tell us how you started your business? Did you
start the business? I think he did and with whom?
Speaker 5 (07:18):
So, I'm actually in business with my brother. We, like
I said, he had started this small business. Just had
left a body shop that he was working at because
he saw that he could possibly get the business like that.
He you know, he was bringing a lot of business
to that place, and he wanted to, you know, see,
like can I go out on my own? And then
(07:40):
it was about eighteen months into that business. I was
in a previous profession. I got laid off and he
was looking for someone to help. I had been in
restaurant management, so I had a little bit of like
business acumen, I would say, and he asked me to
come in and help with the office. And then it
was a struggling small business. I had some money set aside.
(08:01):
I helped them out. We kind of bought in together,
and next thing we knew, we were business partners within
a year, and and then we've grown now over the
last sixteen years to have about twenty employees and a
much bigger body shop than what it started.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Out to be what are your specialties?
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Wow, that's that's interesting, I was. I mean, we're a
collision shop, so we primarily operate as doing insurance collision work.
We do obviously do customer pay and cut some custom
work you know, your your body work, paint and metal repair,
(08:46):
as well as like some you know, other sort of
I would say ancillary things like we have a little rental,
like a little vehicle rental. But primarily we know, we
focus on collision.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And this maybe an unfair question, but I want to
ask it anybody. What separates Full Till from other body shops?
Speaker 5 (09:08):
I would say customer service independence is also another thing.
We don't operate under any insurance contract, and I know
that can be a little confusing to people that don't.
Speaker 6 (09:20):
Understand and explain that.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
So in our industry, you basically have what are considered
direct repair programs. Those are called d rps in our world.
They technically don't exist in Massachusetts, but they do have programs.
And what you do is you sign up for a
program for an insurer. They basically make you sign to
(09:44):
their parameters, whether it be their parameters of repair, their
parameters of how much they pay per hour. Labor hour,
things they are willing to pay for the repair card.
Things they aren't. Things they might be part of a
business that normal shops that are independent can operate and
(10:07):
charge for it. You're not allowed to, but with the
kind of promise that they will shuffle you business without
the need to advertise or have you know, or possibly
not have the need to carry a reputation and you
know there there is obviously costs and advertising, so that
(10:31):
can look appealing to people. It also can be a
way that people have been doing business for a long
time and seemingly as hard for them to get out
of because it's a process that they've been dealing with
for a long time. We choose not to. We've we've
we've dipped our toe in that world once and we
decided we'll never do that again. We feel like we
(10:54):
can repair people's cars to the original equipment manufacturer standard
by being independent from the insurer, meaning like we can
do if you own a Toyota, I can do what
Toyota says to repair your car. I could prove it
to the insurer and they should pay the bill.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
I'm thinking we're going to get into that a little
bit more. Yeah, as we get to the problem side, right, Lucky,
tell us more about the association.
Speaker 7 (11:23):
Well, the association is made up of a mixture of
independent facilities as well as shops that are under program
or contract with insurance companies.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
We also have vendor members.
Speaker 7 (11:35):
Who'll provide services to the association, either through materials, parts
of services such as adask calibration, things of that nature.
Our main goal is to do what we can to
protect consumers, and in the process we're also benefiting our
members because you know, I'm fond of saying that if
(11:55):
the vehicle owner is being handled properly through the claims process,
then the body shop is as well. And you know,
as long as we're able to properly repair the vehicle
using the correct methods and be properly reimbursed to do so,
everybody is is made safe in that process because you know,
once we touch a vehicle, the liability is ours until
(12:18):
that vehicle ends up in a crusher.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
Interesting, which we were going to talk about a crusher today.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Uh, yeah, you know, it's it's the whole.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
It's a cradle to grave mentality, you know, and we
you know, Matt when he's repairing a vehicle and specifies
how it needs to be done. When it ensure may
or may not want to pay for a particular procedure,
Matt has the decision that from a liability standpoint, he
has to do that and somebody has to pay for it,
and that that's what it's coming down to, is being
(12:52):
able to be properly reimbursed to proper repairs so that
everybody is protected and you know, some repairs are made safely.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
All Right, We're going to take our first break right here,
just about a minute. Everybody will be back with Lucky
and Matt right after this.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
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And now back to winning business radio with Kevin helenan
presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one goal in
mind to help you succeed in business. Here once again
is Kevin Helena.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
We're back with Papa George, executive director of Mass Autobody Association,
and Matthew Ciscini. I'm still impressed that I can said
that of the MASS president and UH on the board
of directors.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
Tell us UH actually lucky.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
A couple more questions real quick before we get into
the issues. I understand you on the road A bit
you you go out to shops a lot. I do, yeah,
and what not, only to be a good advocate. But
what are you learning when you're out with business owners.
Speaker 7 (15:28):
Well, you know, I see and hear from them all
the time the struggles that they're facing as far as
trying to entice young and new technicians and to keep
the technicians that they have.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Uh the you know, the average age in.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
Our industry right now technicians as well into the fifties.
And you know, the shops are there, their technicians are
aging out. I also get to visit a lot of
both technical schools and you know, and talk to the
students there and talk to them about what potential future
they have in this industry, which is which is a
great industry.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
You know, it's one that you know, there's a.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
Lot of pride in it being able to take something
that's been damaged and restored back to its pre law
as close as possible to its pre lost condition.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
And I noticed a name change as of January first
of this year. What was behind the name change.
Speaker 7 (16:18):
Years ago, probably eighteen or nineteen years ago, the association
transition from the Massachusetts Autobody Association incorporating the other three
associations in the state under the umbrella of the Alliance
of Automotive Service Providers, which was a national association. That association,
(16:40):
after twenty five years, disbanded in December of twenty twenty four.
We have been talking about going back to the Massachusetts
Autobody Association because the name says it all.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
It's as exactly who we're representing.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
I found it a lot easier when I go into
a collision facility to say who I'm representing in that fashion.
The fact that they went through that disbanding allowed us
to transition back to the Massachusetts Autobody Association, or MABA
as we called ourselves.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
All Right, so why are you guys so passionate about
advocating for the mass autobody industry.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Well, for me, it's pretty easy. You know, it's my industry.
It's what I take pride, and it's what we do
every day. But I would say, you know, it goes
back to you know, when I first went to the
meetings and we're a really small business and I saw
I think at the time it was a friend and
a guy I can call a friend now and Rick Starboard,
(17:40):
who was the president of the ASP at the time,
and uh, he has a shop in Revere Rick's Collision,
and he just I remember like somebody standing up, somebody
advocating for everyone in the room, talking about getting together,
talking about what you need to do in order to
(18:01):
better your business. You know that we're not there for
the insurers. We're there for the customers that come in
the door to repair their cars. It's all about that
kind of you know, we're on a business podcast, and
this is like trying to bring to an industry that
(18:22):
somehow has been beaten down over the years to not
understand anymore that they are a business and that like,
just because the insurers say that they're going to pay
you something or not pay you something, doesn't mean that
that's how you should run your business. I think it's
really important. And Lucky Can Can Can also dovetail on
this that it's this is where we're at now, is
(18:45):
trying to bring an independence to the people that are
operating these businesses in Massachusetts to say, we know the
labor rates unfair, We've got to do something about it.
Here we're the ones that are doing something about it.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
Lucky go ahead.
Speaker 7 (18:59):
Yeah, Well, I think part of my passion comes from
the David and Goliath mentality. I've always been on David's side,
not justs he won, but I've I've been been for
the little guy. And you know, the the issue within
the collision repair industry and that whole back and forth
(19:20):
between collision repair and insurance companies is what drives me
and and you know, wanting to do what's right mostly
for the consumer. And that's one of the things about
our association. You know, we talk about protecting the consumer
first because that then dovetails into the collision repair industry
being treated properly and being protected.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
All right, So you guys have talked about insurance reimbursement rates.
Why does that current system put drivers at risk?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Matt, you want to hit it first?
Speaker 5 (19:51):
Yeah, sure, Well there's not to go into an entire
history lesson in the state of but you know there
and Lucky you could probably speak to this better than
I can. But you know, it goes back to a
time in the eighties where they felt like costs were
running away from the insurers and they needed to have
(20:13):
some level of containment, and so it sort of starts there.
I don't know if you want to go into that history. Luck,
that's me.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
So back in nineteen eighty eight, there was the Insurance
Reform Act of nineteen eighty eight, and as Matt indicated,
it was a drive to try to contain costs and
keep insurance premium from skyrocketing, or that in their mind
skyrocketing back then. So back in nineteen eighty eight, the
average labor rate in Massachusetts was thirty dollars an hour.
(20:46):
Once the Reform Act went into play and they approached
body shops to sign contracts, and the major concession on
those contracts was a labor rate, the labor aiight actually
went from thirty dollars to twenty eight. And then part
of the language and the policy also indicates that an
insurer is only obligated to pay a rate across the
(21:08):
board that they can achieve by setting a rate within
a certain group of shops, So if they can get
a certain number of shops to agree, and then this case,
it was twenty eight dollars an hour, a labor rate
rolled back to thirty. Well, move forward to the year
twenty twenty six, and we're looking at an average laborate
in Massachusetts right now of between forty seven and forty
(21:31):
eight dollars an hour, which you know I think anybody
with any reasonable sense and knowing what's going on with
the cost of business, cost of living, you know, and
what it costs to just get a lawnmower, a bicycle
repaired in this state, let alone, you know, a vehicle
at a mechanical shop, knows that that is an unfair
and unreasonable rate. And the suppression has been brought on
(21:54):
by insurance insurers. And regardless of how much we have
appealed to them to try to raise the minimum reimbursement rate,
they've been very resistant to that. They point at the
fact that premiums will go up.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
That is their age old argument.
Speaker 7 (22:13):
The insurance premiums have been going up regardless and they
have you know, the labor rate has not kept pace
with what it has cost from nineteen ninety to today
to run a business to be able to pay for
insurance for your employees, to be able to provide them
with a pay scale that entices people to come into
(22:34):
the industry, especially young people. You know, if you can
get paid more to drive a truck for Amazon than
you can to repair that Amazon truck, something is really wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
And then obviously the lack of technicians there are book
tech schools. I'm sure that teach autobody, and yet they're
not going to the field even though they have learned it.
Speaker 7 (22:55):
Yeah, and unfortunately, there's been a trend to re moving
the autobody factor or auto body component of a vocational school.
You know, notoriously over the years, the autobody section of
a vocational school was you know, basically a dumping round.
A lot of times they would be you know, put
the problem student there, someone who could work with their hands. Nowadays,
(23:20):
to work on today's vehicles, you have to be part chemists,
you have to be idle electrician. There's just so much
going on in today's vehicles. There's more code, computer code
in today's vehicles than in the rocket that went to
the moon, you know, and you know, to try to
balance out getting paid what we're getting paid per hour
versus other industries, it's a challenge to entice young folks
(23:44):
into it in the vocational schools.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
So for now it seems like a shop owner problem,
but I know it's not. What does the public need
to know.
Speaker 7 (23:53):
Well, the public needs to know that there is a
price to be paid for keeping up with today's technology
the vehicles. From the time that I get into this
in nineteen ninety early nineties to today, they're not the
same vehicle, and unfortunately, insurers are trying to reimburse as
if we're fixing those.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Vehicles, not today's vehicles.
Speaker 7 (24:16):
You know, the technicians that are that are in the
field today and that are trying to come into this
field the equipment that they have to purchase. Notoriously, the
technician owns all of their equipment. Some shops do provide
some equipment, especially the high priced items like the frame machines,
things of that nature, but primarily, you know, the technician
(24:36):
is expected to have a very substantial toolbox.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
And able to work on vehicles, and those tools vary
from mate to make as well, so it's not as
easy as just having you know, a pair of vice
scripts as an example, or some other tool. You know
that there's a lot of speciality.
Speaker 5 (24:58):
Yeah, and I think also just the reason why this
is more than a shop issue or more than a
small business issue is is that you know, these are real, living,
breathing humans that sit in that driver's seat and that
have to go, you know, seventy miles an hour down
the highway and know that if something happens that that
car is going to perform properly for them, and you know,
(25:21):
the attempt to do so is at you know, forty
eight dollars an hour. Seems just completely unreasonable and honestly
bananas to most customers when you mentioned it to them,
they almost don't understand how any shop operates at that.
When it becomes a volume game, all of those things
(25:43):
that businesses do, you know, in the economy of scale
to make this thing happen. That's not how it should be.
It should be that, you know, you figure out what
your operating costs are and your labor rate is based
on that, and then it has to be competitive in
the market. We do not have that in our business.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I can also imagine, I don't want to be too
negative here, but I can also imagine a small percentage
of unscrupulous people who would not fix the car right
because they're not getting paid to fix it right.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (26:19):
Unfortunately, unfortunately, we see that all too often. And you know,
a vehicle, especially because most consumers don't understand their vehicles
from the get go. You know, cosmetically, a vehicle can
look near perfect after an accident. You know, there's always
something that you can find that might be a little
bit off. Unfortunately, it's what's going on behind the scenes
(26:41):
that can have a tremendous negative effect, not only for
that vehicle and the people who are in that vehicle,
but everyone who is sharing the roads with them.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
It's not just because that vehicle was repaired.
Speaker 7 (26:53):
The people that are sharing the road also run into
a jeopardy because, you know, especially with ADAS and the
fact that a lot of these vehicles have automatic braking systems,
lane steering, things of that nature, if the repair isn't
done properly, an eight an airbag may not trigger correctly
through no fault of that driver if they get hit,
(27:14):
you know, or they're being steered unconsciously because they've We've
all grown to rely on our aid DAS systems, the
Advanced Driver Assistant Systems is what ADAS stands for, you know,
We've all grown to rely on it in some part
that if when we get our vehicles back, it's not
reacting the way it should be, it's jeopardizing everyone.
Speaker 6 (27:38):
Is this limited to Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
No, by no means.
Speaker 7 (27:43):
It's just that Massachusetts currently is the lowest paid state
in the country when it comes to reimbursement rate. As
I said, The average in Massachusetts is around between forty
seven and forty eight dollars an hour. The national average
for the country is around sixty nine dollars.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
But you know again, that's an average.
Speaker 7 (28:04):
The highs of it at Massachusetts is one of the
is the second highest state in the Union in which
to own and run a business based on our class
of living here in.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Mass Guys, we're going to take our second break. Be
about another minute, and viewers and listeners will be back
in just a minute with Lucky in Matt.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
You're listening to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helenet on
W four CY Radio. That's W four cy dot com.
Don't go away. More helpful information is coming right up
right here on Winning Business Radio.
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They take pride in thoughtful financial planning and wealth management
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Best in Wealth Management focuses on deep planning, integrating your
business planning with personal They will help put your money
to work and your mind at ease. Go to Bestanwealthmanagement
(29:07):
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And now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helene
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is Kevin Helenet.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
So we're back with Lucky in matt There's been a
trend of businesses closing. Autobody business is closing, right, what
does that look like?
Speaker 7 (30:27):
Well, there has been a drop off in the number
of businesses collision repair of businesses in Massachusetts over the
last ten fifteen years, and a lot of it has
to do with the lack of technicians as far as
drawing new technicians into the business, the lack of a
return on an investment.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
You know, people look to grow.
Speaker 7 (30:48):
Their business and unfortunately it's a real challenge as you know,
and again we don't want to just harp on the
labor rate, but there's a lot of challenges in the industry,
environmental controls, things of that nature that we have to
contend with.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
That a lot of people, you know, they'd rather not
have to deal with that.
Speaker 7 (31:05):
So when it comes to aging out, not only the technicians,
but the shop boners are too And if you don't
have a business that you're able to either pass on
or sell because it has value to it, the option
is to basically close down. And the long term effect
on that is, you know, a longer way for consumers
that have accidents, they're on as many choices in their
(31:27):
particular area to get a vehicle properly repaired.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
So what is the solution? Probably not an easy answer book.
I mean, we always does have a plan, right, I.
Speaker 7 (31:38):
Wish I had a magic wand yeah, well, I think
a lot of it has to do with what we're
doing right now, which is educating the consumer as to
what they need to understand when it comes to collision repair.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
You know, the it's an.
Speaker 7 (31:52):
Adversarial situation between the collision but repair facility and the
insurance industry. You know, they're trying to pay as little
as possible. The collision repair facility wants to make sure
that they're repairing the vehicle properly. The consumer needs to understand,
in my mind, who they should be allying with, and
they cannot afford to let the insurance industry basically brainwash
(32:15):
them into thinking that it's just a matter of a
body shop trying to just make more money. And then
notorious for saying that. They don't say we want to
keep more money for themselves. They want to say that
we're just trying to make more money and that you
know that we're over repairing vehicles is a common quote
by insurance companies. You know, Matt will tell you that
(32:36):
to properly research a vehicle to fix it according to
the OEM specifications today could take hours of research alone,
because those techniques can change from one day to the
next on the very same vehicle. He has to be
able to document everything that was a proper repair procedure
(32:57):
at the time he was repairing that specific vehicle, well,
not a Toyota three weeks ago doing the same thing
today he has to relook everything up, make sure he's
doing everything correctly.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
That's something back could probably speak a little bit more too.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
And it's constantly changing. We've seen vehicles that didn't change
model wise, but have changed a procedure for change something
for one procedure dozens of times, so you could look
something up one day and a week later that procedure
has changed just based on whatever engineer has said. No,
(33:33):
you know, we thought we had it, Now we need
to do this. And you know, again, at forty eight
dollars an hour, it sounds pretty daunting because it is.
Speaker 9 (33:46):
So.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
I know, you guys lobby the state House, the governor,
I'm imagining the legislature. In fact, you've got Brian Bernard.
I'll give him a shout out, Total Care, accident Repair
and Rainham as a legislative rep.
Speaker 6 (33:56):
What have those efforts looked like? And are you winning?
You know, what does it look like?
Speaker 7 (34:03):
It depends on your definition of winning. I guess we're
definitely making headway. You know, we we've we've done a
great deal of had a great deal of discussion with
the legislatures, with the regulators such as the Commissioner of
Insurance as a new insurance commissioner in who's been in
place now for a little over a year. And you know,
(34:24):
our goal is to have them understand what it is
that we contend with in our businesses through shop visits,
which are very much eye opening when it comes to
what a legislator may have thought is going on in
a collisionary pay a facility versus what actually goes on and.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
What you got to talk to the ones that have
had repairs.
Speaker 7 (34:44):
Well, that's something that Matt can tell you about that
there are.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
Some My local senator has been a been here in
my facility and she actually has been forced to pay
a bill because the INSURAN didn't fully reimburse her. And
she's been an advocate and great. You know, I'll leave
her a name out of it because I don't know
(35:08):
she wants to be named. But you know, I've this
is a constant conversation that we have. They understand because
they're consumers too, but you know, we have to have
this conversation holistically. With our customers. I think that's not
just legislation that again harkening back to how does a
(35:30):
business run, but also do the thing for the consumer
all the time. What we need to do is educate
them so if they have an if you can tell
a customer, we have to do a through z to
your vehicle because you own a Toyota, this is what
Toyota says we have to do to it. You're ensure
doesn't want to pay for four or five of these things?
(35:52):
Do you want us to do them to the car
because we feel we have to do them to the car.
If there is something additional, you may have a balance.
And then as long as that customer agrees, you know,
they can advocate for themselves to their ensure. We can
continue to advocate for them to get the proper repair.
(36:12):
But I think that's part of the education of what
MAB is trying to do is explain to all of
the shops in our state that you know, we can't
just keep going along the same way we've been going.
It'spect a different result.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
I don't know if you'd know this number, but is
there any kind of success rate when a customer complains
advocates for themselves to the insurance company.
Speaker 7 (36:37):
I would say more times than I couldn't give you an
exact number, more times than not, the squeaky wheel gets
the oil.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (36:43):
Well, the insurance industry, as much as Matt may argue
for a particular point and be told no and has
to balance bill a customer for whatever that procedure was,
in more cases than not being reimbursed because the consumer
is armed with the right information by a shop like Matt,
(37:03):
they'll provide them that information, and the insurance companies don't
want to lose a customer. They're just banking on somebody
not challenging them. And that goes the same thing with
collusion repair shops. Far too many repair shops are not
willing to put in that extra effort, and that's one
of the things that we try to help our membership
do is learn how to advocate for their customers and
(37:28):
for themselves.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
I think it's important, Kevin not to be as serious
as this example. But the medical industry, in our industry,
they're both reimbursed mostly by insurers. People do almost never
block at a bill that comes in the mail from
a doctor, But for some reason, our industry has been
(37:50):
so beaten down that people don't want to pay an
extra dime because they feel their car insurance should be
covering everything. You know, we would never allow and ensure
in the middle of a surgery to say no, don't
cut there, No, no, no, don't take that out. Yeah,
but we allow our industry.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yeah, that's crazy. That's a good analogy. So consumers worry.
My guess is that higher imbursement higher reimbursement rates would,
as one of you suggested, would increase premiums.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (38:23):
It will, But it's a matter of by how much.
I mean.
Speaker 7 (38:27):
I think that a quick study had been done that
if the labor rate went up ten dollars an hour
would have should have zero or no effect on the
actual premium dollars. You know, a twenty five dollars it's
a thirty dollars increase in labor rate might have a
ten or twenty dollars increase on a particular premium. Because
we're also not talking about the entire premium.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Right. The insurance company is.
Speaker 7 (38:53):
A grade at numbers, and that whole issue about how
to put tray numbers. They'll tell you that it will
make the insurance premium. Insurance premiums will increase by twenty percent. Well,
somebody will look at that fifteen hundred dollars or two
thousand dollars premium from last year and go, oh my god,
that's a huge figure. Well they're talking about the collision
(39:15):
portion of that two thousand, which is a minimal amount.
The overwhelming degree or component of your insurance premium is
medical and legal. It's not the collision. And that's something
that people don't realize. We're made to be the bad
boys and the equation when we're not. It's all the
(39:35):
lawsuits and the physical issues that come out of accidents.
And that's a key component too, is that the technology
changes that have been driven are being driven by the
insurance industry to help minimize not accidents necessarily, but the
amount of soft tissue damage that transpires in a collision loss,
(39:56):
because that's where they're really feeling the the pain on
their rent when it comes to having to settle a
laws suit, pay for extended medical care and things of
that nature.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
It's not the collision aspect of it.
Speaker 7 (40:10):
So technology like the advanced driver assistant systems, accident avoidance,
airbag seat belts, all of those items that they don't
even want to pay for safety checks on after a
loss or have them properly scanned after a loss to
make sure they're functioning properly. They don't want to pay
adequately for that. And again, you know we alluded to
(40:32):
it earlier. There's a lot of shops that are just saying, Okay,
it looks good on the outside, we'll keep our.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Fingers crossed that it doesn't get into an accident.
Speaker 7 (40:40):
And you know, proper and safe repairs, as our campaign
is saying, is no accident. It takes a great deal
of diligence on the part of collision repairs their technicians
to make sure that they are properly repairing the vehicles.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
All right, So what if nothing changes? What if ten years,
five years, ten years from now there's no change. What
does that mean for the consumer? What does that mean
for the shop owner?
Speaker 5 (41:04):
Well, I think it could be very much like what
we see in a lot of industry is you're going
to see the biggest of players come in that can
sustain low reimbursement through consolidation, and you'll have less and
less places to fix your car. They will have a
(41:26):
harder and harder time getting people to work and be
able to repair a car. And I think we will
slowly get into a very impersonal model on how people
fix their cars. You know, there may be the day
where you go to a kiosk, you drop your keys
in a box and they call you two weeks later
when that thing is supposedly done and you come and
(41:49):
pick it up and you don't know anything about what
happened in between. A business like mine needs to stay
on top of the customer. You know, we have a
policy here where we update everyone every forty eight hours
because a car could be here for three weeks if
you have a major collision, procurement of parts, and also
(42:11):
trying to work with the insurer for a customer at
the same time. People aren't just like accepting these major repairs.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
And writing checks.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
We always want to advocate for the customer as much
as possible and get things reimbursed. But you know, I
don't know. I think it's it would be I would
liken it to the medical industry again. I'm sorry. I
always go back to that sting you want to make
humans into cars. But what we have to look at
(42:42):
is do you have a small hometown doctor that you
go to Kevin or a big like facility where you're
a number. You feel like you got to pull the
deli number and you go.
Speaker 6 (42:56):
In and it depends on what I'm going there for.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
The primary care yeah, yes, knows me, well, knows my
wife well, everybody else not really.
Speaker 5 (43:04):
Yeah, So we see medical going that way. We don't.
We don't want collision to go that way. You don't
want to lose your your local mechanic either, you know.
But at least that mechanic can name their price. They
can say, what, hey, my my operating costs are this,
so my labor rate is that when we're dealing with
(43:25):
a reimbursement rate, it's being forced upon us.
Speaker 7 (43:29):
Right, And that's something that the consumer has to understand, Kevin,
is that that is a that's exactly the terminology that
needs to be used by the insurance company. This is
the amount we're willing to reimburse where they but what
they try to do is convince the consumer, the vehicle owner,
that that's the labor rate that the body shop should
be charging, that that's all that it's worth. And anyone
(43:52):
that you sit down and explain it to is Matt
indicated when you when they come in with an estimate
if you take the time and show them that of
that at eight thousand dollars repair, this amount of it
is my labor. The rest of it is parts materials,
services that have to be done on top of you know,
like the adask checking and scanning and pre scanning and
(44:14):
post scanning and calibration. That the labor rate is such
a small component of that. You know, an increase should
have a minimal effect on the premium, but have a
major effect on our businesses being able to bring in
new technicians, to continue proper training, to stay current with
the equipment and everything that is made necessary to repair
(44:37):
today's vehicles.
Speaker 6 (44:40):
So is this a legislative solution, as you guys see.
Speaker 7 (44:43):
It, It's something that we it should be just like
any of the business. We should be able to set
our rates, just like we allude to mechanics, right, they
set their rate. It's what the market will bear, it's
what they're able to promote as far as their expertise
and why they should be selected in the repair process.
(45:03):
With insurance having that ability to suppress it, we've turned
to legislation.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
We've had no choice to.
Speaker 7 (45:12):
You know, we've had commissions, two commissions going all the
way back to two thousand and eight, we just finished
a laborate advisory board.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
All three of those.
Speaker 7 (45:21):
Indicated that the laborrate needed to be significantly increased in
order to keep pace with what's been going on in
our industry. And you know, that's now been presented to legislators,
it's been presented to the Commission of Insurance, it's been
presented to the AG's office, and where our hopes are
that they will take steps, because the insurance industry has
(45:44):
proven that they absolutely will not.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
And the only people that really get hurt are the.
Speaker 7 (45:48):
Vehicle owners paying thousands of dollars and the not getting
what they should be in return.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah, Matt, if i'm you, you know, I'm a business
owner from you, I need to get paid what I'm worth.
And so if that the customer has a bill, which
to your point, the good shops will tell them that
upfront and they get to opt in for that. Yeah,
that's the way I'm going to run my business, so
I can rely, you know, have my standard of living.
It's not you know, it's a business. It's supposed to everything, right.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
Yeah, exactly, And it's your employee standard of living too, right,
you know, I look around, I have family, you know
here this is this is not just a family owned business.
But you know I have guys that have worked for
me for fifteen years and that there they are like family,
and I want to be able to increase their pay
like a person should be increased as they go along
and maybe even outpace the CPI. That would be amazing, right,
(46:41):
You get somebody that is worth the money. They're an
expert in what they do. They could go into any field,
working with their hands and be an ace and do
it unquestionably, because this is an extremely, extremely hard discipline.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
We are out of time. The last part of this
is not the last part, but it was inherent, but
I wanted to emphasize it more. Autobody shops need to
join the association.
Speaker 7 (47:07):
Correct, yes, absolutely, absolutely, you know it's it's I have
a great little diagram that I show of a school
of fish in the shape of shaping themselves into a
big fish eating a shark. Yeah, and that's what it's about.
It's you know, we we we have to join hands.
There's not you know, we.
Speaker 4 (47:27):
Need to look at each other as colleagues.
Speaker 7 (47:29):
We've we've been too long, been taught to look at
each other as competitors.
Speaker 6 (47:33):
Yeah, we all have.
Speaker 7 (47:35):
A common goal and that's to do what's right for
our customers thereby you know, making our businesses better, all.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Right, So we want people to reach out matt Why
should they reach out to you? There's the uh, your
information has gone across several times in the crawl. But
give them your contact info info one more.
Speaker 5 (47:50):
Sure, you can just reach out to me through my
website Full Tilt Autobody dot com. Okay, email me at
info or email me at my email till dot Matthew
at gmail dot com. I'm I'm here for advice. I'm
here for the reason why you should join the association.
I believe in it wholeheartedly. I wouldn't be the president
(48:12):
if I didn't. And Lucky's here working hard for our members.
So once you become a member, you have him right
behind you with all the advice that you possibly could
need on how to succeed as a business, but also
like you know, how to succeed as a as a
person in this industry, because it really comes down to
(48:33):
how do you do it and be able to sleep
well at night and feel good about what you do?
And that's really important to me. I know it's really
important to Luck and that's how we do things.
Speaker 6 (48:44):
So Lucky, share your info one more time.
Speaker 7 (48:47):
Sure, that's the Massachusetts Autobody Association.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
You can reach us.
Speaker 7 (48:51):
At mass mass Autobody dot org. There's a our website
has a lot of consumer information on it is a
map of the state on there with all of our
current members listed that they can refer to. You can
always call our main office number seven six one seven
five seven four zero seven four one.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
We're here to help consumers and body shops alike.
Speaker 7 (49:15):
We have calls all the time from consumers they feel
that they've been wrong either buy, the insurance industry, and
sometimes the body shops.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
So guys, thank you for being here, and thank you
for viewers and listeners for being attached to the program.
Come back next week, viewers and listeners, Monday, February twenty third.
We'll do it all over again. Matt Lucky, thank you
for being here.
Speaker 4 (49:36):
Thanks Keviny opportunity, Kevin appreciate it. You bet.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
You've been listening to Winning Business Radio with your host
Kevin Helene. If you missed any part of this episode.
The podcast is available on Top four Podcasting and iHeartRadio.
For more information and questions, go to Winning Business Radio
dot com or check us out on social media. Tune
in again next weekend every Monday at four pm Eastern
(50:01):
Time to listen live to Winning Business Radio on W
four CY Radio W four c Y dot com. Until then,
let's succeed where others have failed and win in business
with Kevin Helenan and Winning Business Radio
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