John MacDonald: Hipkins needs to deliver on pension talk

Is it a flip flop? Is it a sign of things to come? Or is it just something Labour leader Chris Hipkins said off the top of his head when he was asked about it yesterday?

Means testing the NZ Super pension.

Because, back in 2023 - when he was Prime Minister - Hipkins completely ruled out the idea of means testing the pension.

Now, though, he’s saying he’s open to the idea.

And thank goodness he is. Because we can’t go on the way we are - dishing out the pension to anyone and everyone, whether they need it or not.

I will never see the pension as an entitlement. As some sort of reward for reaching the retirement age.

And it seems Hipkins is finally coming around to that way of thinking too.

Now he says he wouldn’t want to see means testing across-the-board and he doesn’t want to change the retirement age. His thinking there is that some people just can’t physically keep working beyond 65. And I get that.

He says, generally speaking, they tend to be people who have been in lower-paid jobs and they are the people who should be getting the NZ Super pension.

But he says questions have to be asked whether someone who is still working full-time and being paid a six-figure salary should be entitled to the pension.

And my answer to that is no. It always has been.

Tell that to some people, though, who think the pension is unlike any other benefit and everyone should get it. No questions asked.

No questions, such as: are you working or are you retired? Basic questions such as: if you didn’t get the pension, would you be out on the street?

Here’s another one: do you need the pension to buy groceries or do you want it to buy beers at the pub with your mates?

We don’t ask those questions. But Chris Hipkins is saying that he’s open to the idea.

Which is somewhat surprising for a Labour leader. Especially, a Labour leader who, so far, has unveiled next to no pre-election policies or promises.

He claims he’s holding off because he wants to wait until the Budget in a few weeks time. So he knows how much is in the Government books for him to play with.

But you don’t need to wait for that detail to know we’re in a mess with our pension commitments and something has to be done about it.

It is also a bit rich of Hipkins to be talking about means testing the pension on one hand but, on  the other hand, wanting to give anyone and everyone free doctor’s visits. Whether they need it or not.

That’s just about the only policy he has released - the capital gains tax to pay for you and I to go to the doctor three times a year free of charge, whether we can afford it or not.

Nevertheless, despite the contradiction, it’s brilliant to hear some commonsense coming through.

The argument some people put up against means testing, is that people who still work after 65 pay secondary tax on their pension. The inference there is that they don’t get the full amount, so what’s the problem?

But that doesn’t sway me. Because we have an ageing problem - meaning our NZ Super bill is only going to go in one direction.

That’s why we can’t keep paying it out to people just because they’ve made it to 65.

And, rather than just talk about it, Chris Hipkins and all our other politicians need to have the fortitude to do something about it.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from Newstalks.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
A'b question. Is it a flip flop? Is it a
sign of things to come maybe or is it just
something Labor leader Chris Hopkins said off the top of
his head when he was asked about it yesterday. There's
three questions. Actually, not one means testing the New Zealand
super pension because back in twenty twenty three when he

(00:35):
was Prime minister. Remember it almost seems weird saying that,
but back in twenty twenty three when he was Prime Minister,
Chris Hopkins completely ruled out the idea of means testing
the pension. Now, though, what's he saying now? He's saying
he's open to the idea, and thank goodness he is, eh,
because we can't go on the way we are dishing

(00:57):
out the pension to anyone and everyone, whether they need
it or not. I mean, I will never see the
pension as entitlement, as some sort of reward present for
reaching the retirement age. And it seems Hipkins might finally
be coming around to that way of thinking too now
he says he's not going hole as bolus. He says

(01:19):
he wouldn't want to see means testing across the board,
and he doesn't want to change the retirement age. Just
thinking there, and I mean, we've talked about the retirement age.
And Chris Hipkins is saying too that some people just
can't physically keep working beyond sixty five, and I get that,
and he says, generally speaking, they tend to be people

(01:40):
who have been in lower paid jobs and they're the
people who should be getting the New Zealand super Pension. Here,
of course, if you need it, get it. But he
says questions have to be asked whether someone who is
still working full time and being paid a six figure
salary should be entitled to the pension. And my answer

(02:00):
to that is no. Always has been to how that
to some people though, who think the pension is unlike
any other benefit, because that's what it is. But some
people don't think it's unlike any other benefit, and everyone
should get it. No questions asked, you know, no questions
such as are you working or are you retired? Basic

(02:21):
questions such as if you didn't get the pension, would
you be out on the street. Here's another one, do
you need the pension to buy groceries or do you
want it to buy beers at the pub. We don't
ask those questions. But Chris Hipkins is saying that he
is open to the idea, which is somewhat surprising a

(02:43):
for a labor leader, especially a labor leader who so
far has unveiled next to no pre election policies or promises.
Now he claims he's holding off. This is what he's saying.
He claims he's holding off because he wants to wait
until the budget in a few weeks time, so he knows,
you know, how much money's in the government books for
him to play with. But Chris, you don't need to
wait for that detail to know we're in a mess

(03:05):
with our pension commitments, and you don't need to wait
until the budget to know that something has to be
done about it. It's also a bit rich of Hipkins
to be talking about means testing the pension on one hand,
but on the other hand, wanting to give anyone and
everyone free doctor's visits whether they need it or not.
That's about the only policy he has released. Oh, the
capital gains tax to pay for you and I go

(03:28):
to the doctor three times a year free of charge.
Whether we can afford it or not. Nevertheless, I won't
hold that against him. Despite the contradiction. It is brilliant
to hear some common sense coming through now. The argument
some people put up against means testing the pension is
that people who still work after sixty five they pay
secondary tax on their pension, and the inference being that

(03:50):
they don't get the full amount. So what's your problem?
That doesn't sway me? Why? Because we have an aging population,
meaning a New Zealand super Bill is only going in
one direction, a upwards, and that's why we can't keep
paying it out to people just because just because they've

(04:11):
made it to sixty five. But here's the key point.
Rather than just talk about it, Chris Hopkins and all
our other politicians need to have the fortitude to do
something about it.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to News Talks That'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.