John MacDonald: No one wants to pay more tax, but...

Do we need more taxes? 

There are two ways we can look at it. Does The Government need more tax revenue? Yes, I think it does. Which is why those tax cuts after the last election have backfired so badly. 

And do we want to pay more tax? When push comes to shove, probably not. But that’s human nature, isn’t it? 

But, if we look beyond human nature - beyond gut reactions to the tax question - maybe, one day, enough people will accept that we’re just going to have to pay more tax. Like it or not. 

Which is exactly what a tax lobby group is saying today.  

Tax Justice Aotearoa is saying New Zealand needs a capital gains tax, an inheritance tax and a wealth tax. For several reasons. 

First of all, the fuel crisis and climate change. They say the government needs more revenue to cope with these kinds of things. 

The other reason it wants a capital gains tax, an inheritance tax and a wealth tax is to shift the tax burden. To get high income earners paying more tax and to get low-income earners paying less. 

Tax Justice Aotearoa also says our deficits are the problem. And the problem isn’t going to be fixed until we all start paying more tax. 

It says deficits limit what we can do about the fuel crisis. As The Government has said, the $50-a-week tax credits for low-to-middle income earners are as much as it can afford. 

And deficits mean The Government is limited in what it can do in response to climate change. 

Example: no payouts for people who have to pack up and move because of things like sea level rise. 

Former Council of Trade Unions Economist Bill Rosenberg is a member of this lobby group and he says: “It’s becoming obvious governments cannot continue to function properly and do the things that people expect of them without more revenue, so it is inevitable we have to debate these things.” 

And I agree with him. 

But, of course, show me a politician brave enough to stand up and advocate for you and I paying more tax, and they’ll be someone with the shortest political career in history. 

Because who is going to vote for that? 

Maybe we will, when we realise the inevitability of it. 

Yes, it’s easy to bang on about not wanting to pay more taxes because governments waste money, anyway. 

But do we want the “smell of an oily rag” set-up we have at the moment? 

Or, do we want a country that can afford to deal with things like oil shocks and the climate crisis? 

Tax Justice Aotearoa says if that’s what we want, then the government is going to need more revenue. And i agree. Even though I don’t like the idea of paying more tax. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News TALKSB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
How about this for a question, do we need more taxes?
There are two ways we can look at that question.
Does the government need more tax revenue? Yes? I think
it does, which is why those tax cuts off the
last election. The backfired spectacularly, haven't they? And do we

(00:35):
want to pay more tax? Well, when push comes to shove,
probably not. But that's human nature, isn't it. But Jackon,
we can do this if we look beyond human nature,
beyond gut reactions to the tax question. Do you reckon?
Maybe one day enough of us will accept that we're

(00:58):
just going to have to pay more tax, like it
or not, because that is exactly what a tax lobby
group is saying today. The government needs more tax revenue
and we're the ones that are going to have to
chip in. Tax Justice Alteror is the outfit, and they're
saying today in fact, actually they're not just saying. They

(01:21):
are calling for a capital gains tax, an inheritance tax,
and a wealth tax. Why is that? Several reasons? First
of all, the fuel crisis and climate change. They say
the government needs more revenue to cope with these kinds
of things, and making us pay more taxes is the answer.

(01:42):
Tax Justice al Terro also says our deficits are the
problem and it's not going to be fixed until we
pay more tax. The other reason it wants a capital
gains tax, an inheritance tax, and a wealth tax is
to shift the tax burden to get high income earners

(02:03):
pay more tax and low income earners paying less. Just
on the deficit deficit thing, though, it says deficits limit
what we can do about the fuel crisis was look
the evidence there is there. As the government has said,
this fifty dollars a week tax credit for low to
middle income owners is as much as it can afford,

(02:23):
and deficits being the government is limited in what it
can do in response to climate change too. You want
an example, I got one for you. No payouts for
people who have to pack up and move because of
things like sea level rise. Now, former Council of Trade
Union's economist Bill Rosenberg, you know that name. He's a
member of this lobby group, and he says, quote, it's

(02:45):
becoming obvious governments cannot continue to function properly and do
the things that people expect of them without more revenue,
So it is inevitable. We have to debate these things,
and I agree with them, but of course, show me
a politician brave enough to stand up and advocate for you,
and I pay more tax and that'll be someone with

(03:07):
the shortest political career in history, because who the hell's
going to vote for that? Maybe we will, And this
is what I'm curious to find out from you today.
Maybe we will when we realize the inevitability of it.
Because yes, it's almost easy to say, isn't it get
your hands off my money? I mean, yeah, it's easy
to bang on about not wanting to pay more taxes

(03:27):
because governments, Oh, they just waste money anyway. Why would
I give them more money? Why to do that? That's
the easy stuff. The difficult stuff is being how do
I put it? Being bigger than that and deciding what
sort of society we want. Do we want the smell

(03:48):
of an oily rag setup that we've got at the moment,
which we've had for years, or do we want a
country where everybody does their bit to not just keep
the lights on, but to also to be a country
that can afford to thrive and deal with things like
oil shocks and the climate crisis and tax justice. Salteriro says,

(04:08):
if that's what we want, If that's what we want,
then the government is going to need more revenue. And
that's what I want, and I agree, But what about you.
Let's put it to the test. Where do you stand
on a capital gains tax, an inheritance tax, and a
wealth tax.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
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