John MacDonald: What you don't hear about Singapore's public service

I’ll make a bet with you.

These 9,000 job cuts in the public sector that the government’s announced won’t happen.

It’s easy to say. But making it happen is a completely different story.

There’ll be some, for sure. But the whole 9,000? They’re dreaming. Because, from what I’ve seen and heard so far, they are flying blind.

At the moment, there are about 65,000 people working in the public service. Cutting that by 9,000 to get it closer to 55,000 is what the government wants. Nicola Willis reckons that would save taxpayers $2.4 billion.

But, as well as reducing the number of workers, the government also wants departments to make better use of AI technology.

And this is why these 9,000 job cuts aren’t going to happen. Because the government clearly knows no more about artificial intelligence than the rest of us.

I despaired when I heard Nicola Willis saying she got one of her staff to have a play with it and produced a document within minutes.

It was like me thinking I could educate a 16-year-old about social media. Pretending I’m all over it.

Nicola Willis isn't the only one. Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith, for example, says he doesn’t quite know how AI could be deployed across the public service.

He says there are “enormous opportunities right across the board, and none of us know what they are yet. Some of them will be things that we've never even thought about.”

And that’s the basis they’re using for getting rid of 9,000 jobs over the next three years.

What’s more, who says we have too many public servants?

Probably the ones who say we should be more like Singapore.

They’ll tell you that Singapore has 16 government ministries and that’s what we should have too.

They’ll say Singapore is a similar sort of size population‑wise. Singapore has 6.1 million people. New Zealand’s population is 5.3 million.

But guess how many public sector workers there are in Singapore? This is what these people don’t tell you.

We’ve got 65,000. Singapore has 158,000.

So, not only does Singapore have way more government workers than we do on a purely numbers basis, it also has way more than us on a percentage of the population basis.

The government in Singapore is using AI. But it’s pouring a truckload of money into it too.

The government here isn’t talking about that. Because, yes, it might save $2.4 billion in wages and salaries reducing the number of public servants, but how much is it going to have to spend on technology?

Because you can’t just say “get AI to do it”. You need all the systems to talk to each other.

At the very least, that’s where it should be starting. Instead of the finance minister coming on the radio saying she’s used AI to make a document.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from NEWSTALKSB.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I want to make a bet with you. These nine
thousand job cuts in the public sector that the government's announced,
one happen. No one happened, Just like the thousands of
public sector jobs they were going to get rid of.
This term hmmm, easy to say a making it happen
completely different story. There'll be some, for sure, Yeah, there

(00:35):
will be some, but the whole nine thousand tell them
they're dreaming. And why is that? Because from what I've
seen and heard so far, the government's flying blind. So
at the moment, there are about sixty five thousand people
working in the public service. Cuting that by nine thousand

(00:55):
to get it closer to fifty five thousand is what
the government wants, and Nicola Willis reckons that would save
tax pays two point four billion. But as well as
reducing the number of workers, the government also wants departments
to make better use of AI technology. And this is

(01:16):
why these nine thousand job cuts aren't going to happen,
because the government clearly knows no more about artificial intelligence
than the rest of us. I mean, I despared when
I heard Nicola Willis telling Mike this morning what she
knows about AI. Ever listened to this.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
I've been experimenting with it in my office recently and
it's incredible. So instead of one of my analysts spending
half a day coming up with a document, they said
to AI, have a look at public service reform around
the world, tell us who's done what, what seems to
have worked, well, what hasn't, And ten minutes later you've
got a beautiful document with some guidance and some advice. Now,

(01:53):
normally that would take hours of human time. Then you
put a human over the top and you think about
it a bit more keerfully, so it reduces mundane tasks
oh minutes.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Listen to her. It's like me trying to or thinking
I can educate a sixteen year old about social media,
you know, pretending I'm all over it. Oh yeah, I've
got Facebook. And Nichola Willis isn't the only one. Justice
Minister Paul Goldsmith, for example, he says he doesn't quite
know how AI could be deployed across the public service.

(02:24):
He says, there are quote enormous opportunities right across the
board and none of us know what they are, yet
some of them will be things we've never even thought about.
End of quote. And that's the basis they're using for
getting rid of nine thousand jobs over the next three years.
Once more, who says we have too many public servants?

(02:45):
Who says, probably the ones who say we should be
more like Singapore. And they'll tell you that Singapore has
sixteen government ministries and that's what we should have to
I heard Nichola will Is talking about that this morning
as well. And these people will say that Singapore is
a similar sort of size population wise. Yep, Singapore has
six point one million. New Zealand's population five point three million.

(03:09):
But guess how many public sector workers there are in Singapore.
This is what these people don't tell you. We've got
sixty five thousand. Singapore has one hundred and fifty eight thousand.
So not only does Singapore, which is that apparently the
model we should be compying, not only does Singapore have
way more government workers than we do on a purely

(03:30):
numbers basis, they also have way more than us on
a percentage of the population basis as well. Now the
government in Singapore, yes it is using AI, but they're
pouring a truckload of money into it too, And the
government here isn't talking about that because yes, yep, they
might save two point four billion in wages and salaries
reducing the number of public servants. But how much is

(03:53):
it going to have to spend on technology? Well, I
tell you gazillions, because you can't just say, oh, I
get the old AI to do it. Yes see, Frank yep,
AI is going to take care of it.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Now.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
We've appreciated early way, but we don't need you because
you need all the systems to talk to each other.
And I bet has another bet. I bet the government
hasn't given that one bit of thought. And at the
very least that's where it should be starting, instead of
the Finance Minister coming on the radio saying she's used
AI to make a document. Honestly. Now, look, I've worked

(04:28):
in government departments and yep, there are some people who
are pretty much there for the paycheck and the morning
teas and who are bits of drifters. But those people
are everywhere. They're in the private sector as well. And
we should take one of the government's promising with a
pinch of salt, because I don't think they've got any
idea how to make this transformational change they're banging on about.

(04:50):
I don't think they've got any idea how to make
it happen.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
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