Nick Leggett: Infrastructure NZ Chief Executive on the Government announcing review into the CRL

City Rail Link cost concerns have uncovered a reoccurring issue with New Zealand infrastructure projects. 

The project's former boss Sean Sweeney has claimed the project could've cost half of its estimated $5.5 billion price.  

This sparked Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop to announce a full review of the project after its open date later this year.   

Infrastructure NZ CEO Nick Leggett told Ryan Bridge we're not approaching projects right, from the start. 

He says we don't have the proper controls and take too long to plan, so things drag on. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Old plated cost blowouts. The government's doing a review now
on why the CRL has cost us so bloody much.
Former SERAH boss Sean Sweeney has told The Herald it
could have probably been done for two billion dollars cheaper,
two billion cheaper total costs five point five.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
I think we could have delivered this for half the cost,
but it would have looked different.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Neck Legget Infrastructure, New Zealand CEO with us this morning.
Hey Nick, how are you on the money?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
I wouldn't be arguing with anything, Shawan Sweeney said. I
think that when he was close to the project, he
knows the decisions that were made and he says now
that based on his experience, it was over specified and
over designed. And look, I think that it does happen
quite a lot of infrastructure in New Zealand. We don't

(00:48):
have the proper controls and sometimes we take too long
to plan, or we don't plan enough and we let
things drag on. And you know, he also makes a
really key point and let us get the right people
with the right expertise on at the start, and that
is that's another change. We don't do some of these projects,

(01:08):
Ryan often enough. If you think about it, When was
a metro rail, When was a metro rail project done
in New Zealand like this, it's hard to remember. So
we don't have the expertise often on shore, and we
don't line things up properly, and it's sort of a
bit of a continuous cycle. And I think we've got

(01:30):
to learn from it.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
But isn't the irony of all of this that he
himself probably shouldn't have been a hide because he says
he didn't have the experience to know that this meaning
that was being done probably shouldn't have been done.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I think if you look at the project, we're going
to get a very high quality project. But ultimately, the
people who specify the design and agree to it, you know,
the people that contract these sort of projects, they're the
ones that are ultimately in control role. So you know,
he's said, look, I didn't know enough. Fair call who

(02:05):
was better, and uh, look, it's just the case that
we've just got to lift our game as a country.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
And is it the designers, the designers, the geotech.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
No, it's it's it's not. It's it's the who contracts
the job, who pays for the job. That's the question.
You know those are those are the things we've got
to look at. And are they just questions.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
A JV between the government and the council, which this
was not a good idea.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, I think jvs are a good idea. We should
be doing more. But what we've got to do is
make sure that they're specifying the right designs, that they're
they're focusing on getting the right cost controls and not
you know, as he uses this word gold plating. You
know some of these stations, you know, a couple of stations,
as you know, the same size as the biggest ones

(02:55):
in the London underground, two hundred meters long. That's right, right,
And I've just I'm actually not in New Zealand, which
is why I sound so bright and bright eyed and
bushy tailed. I'm in Norway. I've just looked at we
just looked at a metro development today. It's twice as
long as CRL and it's got twice as many stations,

(03:18):
and it's costing the same And so we can lock
to international expertise. The other thing, though, after giving ourselves
a short sharp kick, we've got to change our behavior
with the stuff. We've also got to remember that CRL
is going to be awesome for Auckland. The next challenge
is to make sure that we get the best out

(03:39):
of it, which means getting more housing around it, got
more jobs and growth. That's that we should hold ourselves to.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Now, don't waste the very expensive opportunity leg at infrastructure
in New Zealand and CEO.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
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