Oliver Hartwich: NZ Initiative Executive Director says Ministers should be responsible for appointing public agency leaders

A think tank's warning the way we appoint public agency leaders is hindering the Government from governing.  

The New Zealand Initiative says consecutive governments struggling to fulfil their promises is due to elected ministers being unable to choose a department's chief executive. 

Executive Director Oliver Hartwich says the Public Service Commissioner makes the appointment, which can happen before a minister is elected.  

He told Ryan Bridge that ministers may be forced to work with department heads appointed during the previous government's term, who may not be happy with you and vice versa, and that doesn’t work well to implement the Government’s agenda.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Right now. The New Zealand Initiative reckons think tank reckons
that Ministers of the Crown here should have the power
to fire their department's CEOs on of a heart, which
the New Zealand Initiative executive directed with me this morning
on of a good morning, good morning. So why do
you Well, first of all, what's the reason we don't
let them do it at the moment.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, the reason is actually that since nineteen eighty eight,
the Public Service Commission has been in charge of appointing
department chief executives. It's quite an unusual scenario really, because
most people think when we vought for a government, the
government has the rights to basically govern as they like
and as they promise them their manifestos. But in fact
it's actually the Public Service Commission that appoints the department

(00:40):
chief executives, and very few other countries there for system
like that.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yes, but they can say, the minister can say I
don't have confidence in so and so and that. I
mean they normally sort it out. Did they need to
be able to pull the lever themselves.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
I think it would be a lot cleaner, because I mean,
if you think about it this way, you might be
a minister just sworn in, but the department se has
been reappointed by the previous government under the Public Service
Commissioner back then, and then you spent your entire term
working with someone who you haven't picked, who might not
be happy with you, and vice versa, and that actually
doesn't work well. Then to implement the government's agenda.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Can you give me an example of where this hasn't
worked or why this hasn't worked.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well? I mean, if you look at the resource management
reforms currently going through parliament. So the coalition agreement was
crystal clear what they wanted to achieve was a new
resource management system based on property rights. We got a
cabinet paper in twenty four which promised just that, and
when you look at the draft legislation now before Parliament,
there is very little of that's still in there, and

(01:44):
we can suspect that the bureaucracy simply watered down the
plants that they didn't like.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
What are they do in Germany?

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Well, in Germany, under the constitution, the minister is in
charge of the ministry. It's articled sixty five of the
Basic Law and that basically makes the Minister the chief
second Now In practice, of course, it means the minister's
appoint a state secretary and the state secretary runs the
department on their behalf. And that state secretary has to
be qualified so as a clear qualification requirement under the law.

(02:14):
But also it's someone that the minister can trust. So
it's a political appointment. But the rest of the public
service is totally neutral. So the political appointments are really
for the top tier of public servants, but nothing underneath.
The rest is totally protected. There are guard rails, there
is a whistleblower clause and actually if you ever try
to do anything unlawful in Germany, the public service has

(02:37):
a duty to object to that. So it is not
a job for Maid's scheme. It is something with guard rails,
but it ensures that the government of the day can
implement their gender.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Appreciate your time. Oliver Hartwitz, New Zealand Initiative Executive directed For.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
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