Chris Abercrombie: PPTA President on the drop in students passing NCEA numeracy assessments

The secondary teachers' union isn't alarmed by a drop in students passing a key NCEA numeracy assessment.

Just over half passed the compulsory NCEA maths co-requisite assessment in May, more than five percent down on last year.

Pass rates changed little for reading and writing.

PPTA President Chris Abercrombie says the numeracy assessment tests maths in real-world contexts, rather than straightforward calculations.

"So you need a high level of literacy - I know students that can pass physics, but will fail this numeracy assessment because they don't have the literacy. So it's quite a complex situation." 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's not good on the education front. I'm sorry to
tell you this as well. Nearly half of our students
are failing to meet NCEEA numeracy requirements. The Qualifications Authority
says the past rate this year was fifty two percent.
That's down from fifty seven percent last year. Post Primary
Teachers Association President Chris Abercrombie is with us now high
Chris Cooler, surprise.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
You, No, it's sitting in about that that market.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Say.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's down a little bit from last year, but it's
not unexpected to sit where it sits.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Right, What are we testing in particular with these numerousy requirements?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Well's basic, it's numerous. So what has been told to
me is that you.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Can read the back of a packet of panetole and
understand how to take it.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
So it's that kind of contextualized maths basically.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, So how come the teachers are not teaching kids
basic maths? Why are they failing like that? Oh?

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Well, it's not what at all I said.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's contextualized maths, and so you need a high level
of literacy. I know students that can pass physics but
will fail this numeracy assessment because they don't have the literacy.
So it's a bit, it's quite it's quite a complex
situation in that space. So it's not a mass test,
it's a numeracy test.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
That they are two different things.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
And so why aren't the teachers teaching the kids how
to read properly?

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Or they are?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
It's as you said, it's the reading writing is staying
where it is is Actually we've been up if I
remember rightly, and so it is.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
But this again is as a numeracy there's a high
level of literacy.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Did you not just tell me that in order to
pass the maths you have to be able to read
properly and that that's not maths.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
I keep, I keep explaining the serious numeracy and maths
are two different things.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Okay, so in order to do the mat numeracy they
have to have a fair grasp on the literacy.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
But the literacy requirement at times is higher than the
literacy requirement for the literacy exam.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
It is though in the curriculum, isn't it like it is?
It is? This is a requirement, Like, are you telling
me the test is too hard? Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
No, I'm not saying that at all. And it's also
not a requirement of the curriculum. It's it's a it's
a outside the curriculum.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Okay, So what's the problem here? If we have a
test that is fair for kids of this age, why
are they not passing it?

Speaker 3 (02:08):
There's lots of factors.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Sometimes it's the first time the kids have come across
a test like this. Sometimes they need to take more
than one time, and that's why we do it multiple
times a year. You can do it all the way
up to year thirteen, and a number of the students
that haven't passed it now will pass it later, either
later this year or next year. And so that's the
purpose of this is to identify areas to support those

(02:31):
students and passing it in the next time.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
So this is not a year eleven test, it's not
a year twelve test, it's not a year thirteen test.
It's at any point in NCAA, you just have to
pass this.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
It's actually before NCAA. Most students will do it in
year ten, some will do it in year nine. Schools
decide when the students will sit it, and some students,
if they didn't pass it, they can do it in
year eleven, year twelve, year thirteen. So there's multiple opportunities,
and some students will need multiple opportunities for whatever reason.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Are you telling me that's something that a child should
be able to do in year ten? We are saying
it's okay if they tried again in year eleven, year twelve,
or year thirteen, four years later or three years later,
it's okay. If they're still trying, then well, I think.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
It's important that they have an opportunity to succeed. So yeah,
I think that's important. Okay, you don't think it's important
children to succeed, then I think we've probably got a
different situation.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
I think my standards are higher than yours, Chris, trust me.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
I disagree with that heither, But that's okay.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
This is my standard. You said a test in year
ten that you should pass in the year ten. Make
you pass that in year ten. I don't want to
see you doing it in year thirteen.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Well, all our students are different here, all children are different.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Again that my standards are lower than yours, now, Chris,
is the my standard.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Is that children are different. I think it's probably made
quite a reason to be here. Honestly, four children.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
And they're all very different, so I'm sure they assuming
that all year tens can do something all at the
same time, like they're a bit of robots.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
As a board ask.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Is there anything that teachers can do to assist these kids?

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Absolutely, there's lots of programs that exist, and some of
them are being very successful and well, and teachers will
continue to do that.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
We're having schedule on should we Okay, let me rephrase
the question, should we be expecting? Is there anything that
we can do as the teaching community to get these
kids to pass this in year ten when they're supposed
to Well, then.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Just to be clear, they're not supposed to pass in
the year ten, but they can start sitting it in
year nine or ten.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
There's lots of things.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
As I say, secondary teachers aren't trained to teach kids
to rend right, So there's been programs to support that.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
We've asked for the structured literacy.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Supports to be increased into year nine and ten for
those students who haven't received it because of the rollout. Look,
I wouldn't it educational reforms a ten year process, and
so you know, some of these things have only been
happening for a few years and so we've got a
number of years before we can really say if these
programs are successful or not successful.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Okay, now, Chris, I'm going to tell you something. Okay,
I'm looking at the texts right now and they're not
gen risks to you. So what I would suggest is
stay tuned to the station. I know it won't surprise you,
but for the reason that I identified earlier, So stay
tuned to the station. Get a little bit of feedback
on it. Chris, Thank you very much, Chris Abercrombie.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
I appreciate the time.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Thanks man, as always, Chris Abercrombie, Post Primary Teachers Association President.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
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