Chris Penk: Defence Minister on New Zealand looking into joining the Ocean of Peace Alliance

The Defence Minister says New Zealand will think carefully about joining the recently signed defence alliance between Fiji and Australia.

The Ocean of Peace Alliance was signed by the leaders of Australia and Fiji last week, but concerns have been raised over how it could impact our relationship with China. 

Minister Chris Penk says working together is important for all Pacific nations and there's a potential role for New Zealand in there. 

"We'll consider carefully the obligations under that - at the moment, it's just between Australia and Fiji, and we congratulate them for working together on matters of regional security." 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Right. So it's nine minutes after six, and it is
July and is holiday period and a lot of people
are on holiday, and normally at this time we talked
to Nicola Willis, but Nicola Willis is on holiday with
her family and so instead we're joined by the Defense Minister,
Chris Pink.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hello, Chris, good evening, Andrew, how are you very good?

Speaker 1 (00:15):
And since you are the Defense Minister. This past week
we saw New Zealand pledging to join the Ocean of
Peace Alliance between Australia and Fiji, and then we wondered
about what that might mean in terms of our relationship
with China. So what can you tell us about this
Ocean of Peace alliance and what it wants to do

(00:36):
and what it's actually saying to China.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, we've said that, we'll Sidney consider it and we'll
consider carefully the obligations under that. At the moment, of course,
it's just between Australia and Fiji, and we congratulate them
for working together on matters of regional security, and I
would emphasize it's about working together for that Ocean of
Peace concept. Of course, the Pacific is literally the Ocean

(01:01):
of peace and that's the ideal that all the Pacific
nations want to live towards and to be part of.
So there's a role for New Zealand potentially in joining that.
And in the meantime, it's about that which it's for,
which is promoting peace in all its ways, according to
maritime security, which is in relation to transnational crime, for

(01:21):
sheries protection as well as the more military aspects.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
So that's what we're interested in considering.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
And this is this the environment we're in? Is this
the climent we're in with the breakdown of the international
rules of law, with big players are stomping their feet
with more and more alliances happening, Can we can we
look to more sort of a recreation of some of
these alliances that we used to have in the old days.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Well, I think it's worth noting, of course, we do
already have a an alliance with Australia and we've cooperated
with Fiji on security matters and get with a pretty
broad concept of that that term for a number of
years now. So it really might be more about formalizing that.
And certainly if you think about the increasing competition and
the contest in various regions, Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Including the No Pacific.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
It's about banding together like minded nations to promote and
protect the ideals and interests that we hold there.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
And you just returned from that NATO conference. You are
representative there, and of course it has been reported that
many of the nations congratulated you on the twelve million
dollar push into defense spending that New Zealander has had
and our desire to get to two percent of GDP
on defense spending. Were they also talking about the New
World environment?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, they were very much so.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Of course, NATO by definition is a different part of
the world from where New Zealand is physically located, but
obviously across the North Atlantic Treaty organization and including into Europe,
a lot of the similar themes are matters of concern.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
You know, there isn't an environment of.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Increased defense spending because we all see that we're living
in a very contested world. And of course there's also
direct impact on New Zealand when issues such as conflict
in the Middle East flow through to us through those
high energy prices and the supply of goods more generally.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, of course we're all cockahoop about the visitor of
the Prime Minister of India Modi actually came to visit
us for the first time an Indian prime minister for
forty years. There are some saying that perhaps we bent
over a little bit too backwards to him, and that
Chris lux And went and met him at the airport,
which doesn't now normally happen. They went to this rally
in Spark Arena in Auckland, which doesn't normally happen when

(03:32):
leaders come, they don't have a rally, and then Chris
held his hand and they were holding hands as well.
Are we bending over backwards for India?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, I think it's good when world leaders have strong
personal relationships that benefit their respective nations. Certainly for New
Zealand to have Christopher Luxen flying the flag for us
strongly in terms of what's important to New Zealand, that's
a good thing. And so I think the historic visit
which has described as such, after forty years without and

(04:01):
then Prime minister having come all the way down to
this part of the world, and certainly with them having
an increasing population and increasing middle class, great opportunities for
our businesses to export to find a billion new customers.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
So I think there's a lot that's in it for
our nation, all right?

Speaker 1 (04:17):
The Internal Affairs Department strike today, where the PSA claims
there were offered one percent, the department comes back and says,
with step progression and bulk funding bulk payments is more
like six percent. Is this a real strike or do
you think it's electioneering by the PSA in an election year.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
I certainly wouldn't want to speak to their motivations.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
I would just, you know, respectfully encourage everyone involved to
speak clearly in terms of the facts of the matter.
You've highlighted what I understand is a bit of a
discrepancy in terms of how the offer has been characterized.
But at the same time, no one's going to thank
me for wading into the negotiations by being too specific
about either motivations or what's on the table.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Do you think the office fair?

Speaker 3 (05:01):
I understand it's a competitive offer, but you know, I
don't want to express a view that might limit the
position of either side going forward, because it's important that
these are conducted in good faith.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Now, we found out today that if you, as an
MP put in a dollar into the Keiwi Saver, the
taxpayer will give you another two dollars fifty as well,
and some people say this isn't fair. The Remuneration Authority
thought about getting rid of it, but COVID got in
the way. Now it's cropped up again. Had they got
rid of it back then, we would have saved ourselves
eight million dollars. So is it fair that MPs get

(05:32):
a better key we saved deal than all the rest
of us.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Well, these are the questions that the Remuneration Authority is
supposed to consider. It seems unexpected to me that they
wouldn't have considered it a few years ago. I know
that COVID was taking place, but they've obviously chosen not
to meet by zoom or whatever other means is available.
But I do understand that they'll consider it again soon,
and I hope that they'll come up with something that
everyone will regard as fair and reasonable taxpayers and members

(05:59):
of Parliament alike.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Do you think it's fair of us to expect MPs
to be a little bit more moderate when it comes
to their remuneration and their allowances because it's causing bad
press all over the place and it causes a yellow
eyed fever.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I think moderation is always important.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
So if I could offer you no pay increase and
a reduction of your QUI saba you'd say yes.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Well, it depends if that's moderate or not.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
But if you are the remuneration authority in this instance,
then you'd have the right to set the pay rates
and it wouldn't be for us to cheer or complain regardless.
That's the point about having an independent authority, so that
MP's aren't setting their own pay or for that matter,
conditions that go along.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
But you could actually turn it down if you wanted to.
You have the ability to do that. You don't have
to take it.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
I thought you interviewed with mister graat Miachler was really interesting. Actually,
he did make the point around a package that takes
into account different factors and it it could be argued,
of course that if there were less of a key
WE Saver contribution, there would be more salary or vice versa.
And of course the point around corruption is well made.
But again I don't really want to get into that detail.
I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on it.

(07:12):
And if the remuneration authority were to lower it or
to make it a zero increase, be it the pay
all the other conditions, then MPs naturally would have to
abide by that.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
So I think it's about the right way to view it.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Well, Chris, thank you for your time today. That is
Chris Penk who is the Defense Minister.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
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