September 10, 2026 • 5 mins
A double-pronged mistake meant more more than 30,000 benefit payments were incorrectly suspended.
A review has found superannuitants were wrongly made to confirm their circumstances to get the Winter Energy Payment in legislation passed under urgency.
The high number of confirmations meant processing delays, and people’s benefits didn't continue when they should have.
The Ministry of Social Development's paid more than $2.5 million dollars in arrears, and is apologising to the thousands impacted.
Chief executive Debbie Power says people questioning it from April were told it was no mistake, and it wasn't raised with the Minister until August.
"The policy intent was never to impact these clients in this way, we got it wrong."
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Turns out that more than 30,000 people have missed out
on welfare payments this winter which includes pensioners and veterans
who went without their winter energy payment. MSD has found
this through a review into what went wrong after the
government passed urgent legislation last year which required beneficiaries to
confirm their circumstances every single year. Debbie Power is the
CEO of the Ministry of Social Development. Hi Debbie.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
So what happened?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I think the review is really clear and identifies two issues.
The first is that the winter energy payment was wrongly
impacted for clients who are part of this review process
who receive winter energy payment and supplementaries. It was never intended.
(00:45):
The policy intent was never meant to impact these clients.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And the second issue?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And the second issue is the processing delays associated with
this work.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Right, you didn't have enough staff to get through once
you realised there was something going wrong. So you apparently
realised in April, this is when you were alerted to
the fact that people were missing out on the money.
Why did it take until August to do something about it?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
You're right. People were raising questions very early on in
the process and As often as the case when you
introduce new legislation, you will get both clients asking questions
because it's new and they don't necessarily understand what it means,
and you'll have staff raising questions. Both of those things
were happening. The problem was that they were consistently getting
(01:35):
messages back saying the system was operating as intended under
the legislation. That was technically correct. What we now know
is it was wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Well, no, it's still not wrong, though, is it? That
is what the legislation said. So who were these messages coming,
like they were coming back, you said, from where?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So they would have been coming back from MSD. So
we have a team of people who, you know, call
it a help desk or something like that, where people
would have been saying, is this right? Should this be happening?
And they would have been consistently, as I said before,
getting messages back saying the system is operating as it
(02:13):
is intended under the legislation. Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Did you or anybody else go to the minister and say,
is this what you meant?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
The first time that we talked to the minister about
this was, as it is publicly known, on the 13th
of August. We discovered the issue then and we talked
to her. We discovered the issue on the 13th of
August and talked to the minister on that same day.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
When did the legislation pass, Debbie?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It passed under urgency last year and it was implemented
from March this year. So there was a long time
between passing and implementation.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
But there would have been like heaps of people in
your organisation, lawyers and stuff, looking over it and saying,
this is what the legislation means. And clearly there was
a massive mistake there. Like anybody looking at that would
have seen there's a mistake. So why did nobody go
back to the minister's office and say, did you mean
to do this?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So what happened was the winter energy payment that was
impacted for clients who only, in this case superannuitants, who
only their subs were being reviewed, it was omitted throughout
the process. I know that sounds outrageous at one level,
(03:38):
but that is the truth. There was no intent. The
policy intent was never to impact these clients in this way.
We got it wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yes, but the legislation was written so that it did
impact them that way, right?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
That's right. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Now, I'm not cheating. I actually am not cheating blame
to you guys, right? This is a failure at the
Parliament level. But why didn't anybody go to the Minister's
office and go, hey, did you mean for this to happen?
Because you would have had a team of very intelligent
people looking at it and directing your help desk and saying,
this is what this means. Why did nobody flag it
with the Minister?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So the issue was that as the report finds, It
was omitted through all of the processes. Nobody clocked that
this would be the impact. The legislation was passed. We
then went about from when the legislation passed until implementation, implementing,
getting ready for implementation. And then it came in on
(04:36):
the 2nd of March. And then as the report says,
we started getting questions raised at the end of April saying,
was this really intended? It wasn't until the 13th of
August when we realised that there was an unintended consequence
of the legislation impacting winter energy payments for this group
that we went to the Minister and said, we think
(04:56):
we've got a problem, we're sure this wasn't your policy intent,
and the rest is history.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Okay, why are you the one fronting and not the
Minister who is actually at fault here?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, the Ministry's job is to deliver government policy, including
giving advice. and design and implementation. That's my job, so
I am accountable for this.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
All right, Debbie, thank you very much for your time.
Debbie Power, Ministry of Social Development, CE. It's 13 past five.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
For more from Heather Duplessy-Allen Drive, listen live to Newstalk
ZB from 4pm weekdays or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Turns out that more than 30,000 people have missed out
on welfare payments this winter which includes pensioners and veterans
who went without their winter energy payment. MSD has found
this through a review into what went wrong after the
government passed urgent legislation last year which required beneficiaries to
confirm their circumstances every single year. Debbie Power is the
CEO of the Ministry of Social Development. Hi Debbie.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
So what happened?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I think the review is really clear and identifies two issues.
The first is that the winter energy payment was wrongly
impacted for clients who are part of this review process
who receive winter energy payment and supplementaries. It was never intended.
(00:45):
The policy intent was never meant to impact these clients.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And the second issue?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And the second issue is the processing delays associated with
this work.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Right, you didn't have enough staff to get through once
you realised there was something going wrong. So you apparently
realised in April, this is when you were alerted to
the fact that people were missing out on the money.
Why did it take until August to do something about it?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
You're right. People were raising questions very early on in
the process and As often as the case when you
introduce new legislation, you will get both clients asking questions
because it's new and they don't necessarily understand what it means,
and you'll have staff raising questions. Both of those things
were happening. The problem was that they were consistently getting
(01:35):
messages back saying the system was operating as intended under
the legislation. That was technically correct. What we now know
is it was wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Well, no, it's still not wrong, though, is it? That
is what the legislation said. So who were these messages coming,
like they were coming back, you said, from where?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So they would have been coming back from MSD. So
we have a team of people who, you know, call
it a help desk or something like that, where people
would have been saying, is this right? Should this be happening?
And they would have been consistently, as I said before,
getting messages back saying the system is operating as it
(02:13):
is intended under the legislation. Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Did you or anybody else go to the minister and say,
is this what you meant?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
The first time that we talked to the minister about
this was, as it is publicly known, on the 13th
of August. We discovered the issue then and we talked
to her. We discovered the issue on the 13th of
August and talked to the minister on that same day.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
When did the legislation pass, Debbie?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It passed under urgency last year and it was implemented
from March this year. So there was a long time
between passing and implementation.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
But there would have been like heaps of people in
your organisation, lawyers and stuff, looking over it and saying,
this is what the legislation means. And clearly there was
a massive mistake there. Like anybody looking at that would
have seen there's a mistake. So why did nobody go
back to the minister's office and say, did you mean
to do this?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So what happened was the winter energy payment that was
impacted for clients who only, in this case superannuitants, who
only their subs were being reviewed, it was omitted throughout
the process. I know that sounds outrageous at one level,
(03:38):
but that is the truth. There was no intent. The
policy intent was never to impact these clients in this way.
We got it wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yes, but the legislation was written so that it did
impact them that way, right?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
That's right. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Now, I'm not cheating. I actually am not cheating blame
to you guys, right? This is a failure at the
Parliament level. But why didn't anybody go to the Minister's
office and go, hey, did you mean for this to happen?
Because you would have had a team of very intelligent
people looking at it and directing your help desk and saying,
this is what this means. Why did nobody flag it
with the Minister?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So the issue was that as the report finds, It
was omitted through all of the processes. Nobody clocked that
this would be the impact. The legislation was passed. We
then went about from when the legislation passed until implementation, implementing,
getting ready for implementation. And then it came in on
(04:36):
the 2nd of March. And then as the report says,
we started getting questions raised at the end of April saying,
was this really intended? It wasn't until the 13th of
August when we realised that there was an unintended consequence
of the legislation impacting winter energy payments for this group
that we went to the Minister and said, we think
(04:56):
we've got a problem, we're sure this wasn't your policy intent,
and the rest is history.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Okay, why are you the one fronting and not the
Minister who is actually at fault here?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, the Ministry's job is to deliver government policy, including
giving advice. and design and implementation. That's my job, so
I am accountable for this.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
All right, Debbie, thank you very much for your time.
Debbie Power, Ministry of Social Development, CE. It's 13 past five.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
For more from Heather Duplessy-Allen Drive, listen live to Newstalk
ZB from 4pm weekdays or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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