Dougal Sutherland: Umbrella Wellbeing Principal Psychologist on the economic costs of unwell workers pushing through

New research reveals New Zealand businesses are losing billions of dollars a year as a result of unwell workers pushing through instead of taking time out to recover.

In a new report by Umbrella Wellbeing, 'presenteeism' - when employees turn up to work while physically or mentally unwell - has been found to erode productivity and result in costly mistakes from staff.

Umbrella Wellbeing Principal Psychologist Dougal Sutherland says 'presenteeism' creates significant costs for employers - but the data is difficult to track. 

"It's very hard to count - but an estimate is that it's costing over $40 billion in lost productivity every year in New Zealand."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Cray and Bridge. Looks like you're not doing your boss
any favor by going to work while you're unwell. Umbrella
Well Being reckons businesses are losing billions of dollars a
year due to workers pushing through while they're physically or
mentally unwell. Umbrella principal psychologist doctor Dourgle Sutherland is with
me Hi Dogle. How are you good evening, Ryan?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm well, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Good to have you on the show. So you're calling
this presenteeism as opposed to absenteeism, what is it?

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yeah, Look, absenteeism is where people are absent from the
workplace because they're sick, easy to count noticeable. Presenteeism is
when people are physically present in the workplace but they
are not performing at their full level of productivity. And
we would say that that's at least a third or

(00:50):
more decline in productivity.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
So you're sitting at your.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Guesk, but you're really mentally kind of not fully there,
so you're not able to work to your full capacity.
And we think it's a very hidden cost for employers
because it's.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Very hard to count.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
But as you say that, you know, an estimate is
that it's costing over forty billion dollars in lost productivity
every year to New Zealand.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Where's that estimate come from.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Look, it's based on some averages, So people saying, look,
thirty if we go on the idea that thirty three
percent less productivity, and that average is out at about two
thousand dollars per worker in lost.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Productivity per month.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
So this is people saying that I lose about six
days per month. And then if you average that out
across the entire population.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
So look, it's a big estimate.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
And we're wanting to spark a conversation about this because
there's not a lot of good research around us. So
it's a first attempt at trying to get some numbers
on this particular phenomena. We know this phenomena occurs, there's
lots of research internationally that shows it, and so we're
trying to somehow put some figures on this.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Okay, fair enough, let's put the physical ailments to a
side for a second. Just focus on the psychological Are
you not better off being at work? I mean, even
if you're not from and this is from the individual's perspective,
not the companies, but are you not better off being
at work if you're feeling down depressed, maybe not one
hundred percent. Are you not better off being around people

(02:26):
rather than our home moping?

Speaker 3 (02:29):
There is certainly an argument, and we were sort of
distinguished between different types of presenteeism. So there are types
of presentism when yes, it's probably useful for you to
be at work, But I think the key thing is
acknowledging that that's actually going on.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
The big cost here is when it's hidden, when the manager,
the boss, the organization doesn't know it's happening, and the
person is there pretending almost to work, and then the
organization scratching it to here, going gee, why aren't we
as productive as we usually are?

Speaker 3 (03:04):
We already know that New Zealand is one of the
least productive countries in the OECD, and we scratch our heads, going.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
I wonder why that is?

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Because we work longer hours in many other countries in
the OE c D. And maybe this is part of
it that actually we're working longer but not doing a
heck of a lot.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
But maybe what's I guess, what's the alternative for the
for the manager or the business owner, you know, having
that person not be at work, which would which would
be even less productive. Well, you know, well how many
days I mean six days you mentioned six days per month.
That's that's that's a lot of time off.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
So it's about how we structure that work.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
I heard somebody today say, Hey, I do this all
the time because I'm the only person in my job
or in my organization that can do my particular job,
so I have to work well. That smacks to me
of a job that that isn't well designed because there's
no redundancy. There's no backup in that job. So you're
relying on one single person. Now that person is there

(04:08):
and you think, oh, we must be doing well. Actually
they could be functioning at thirty three percent less or
even worse in their productivity. So organizations and businesses need
to look at we're kind of fooling ourselves. We think
that because somebody is physically present in the workplace, they
must be working. And I think that's why we're seeing

(04:28):
this as a hidden cost, because we just look at
the fact that somebody is sitting there or standing there
in their job and we think, therefore they must be producing.
And we think it's possibly cheaper if you're actually having
some built in redundancies into.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Your workplace interesting Doctor Dougal Sutherland, Umbrella Principal Psychologists really
appreciate your time. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive,
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