Erica Stanford: Education Minister comments on more than 100 principals using government money for personal items

The Auditor-General has released its annual report on questionable spending by schools - and some stand out more than the rest. 

Sutton Park School spent $11,000 on a staff planning meeting at Sky City, Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Mangere spent $22,000 on a boat cruise, and Te Kura Kaupapa Māori o Te Tonga o Hokianga spent $6,000 on a trip to Turkey for the principal with 'No clear business purpose.'

The Ministry of Education says that over 2400 schools were audited and only a handful were 'commented on' by the auditor-general. 

Education Minister Erica Stanford blamed the previous government, saying that, 'It wasn't particularly fit for purpose and it didn't have good guard rails to prevent exactly what's happened.'

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brian Bridge twenty three away from six speaking of are
the principles routing the system?

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Here?

Speaker 1 (00:05):
We looks like we've been taking for a bit of
a ride, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
So.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
The Auditor General has released its annual report on questionable
spending by schools, and there are some doozies. Sutton Park
School eleven grand on a staff planning meeting at Sky City.
There was a there was a kitter to Kitta Copapa,
Maldi or Mangati twenty two grand on a boat cruise.
There was another kitter spent six grand on a trip

(00:29):
to Turkey for the principal with quote no clear business purpose.
The Ministry of Education says that there are twenty four
hundred schools audited. Only a handful were commented on by
the Auditor General. Erica Stamford is the Minister for Education
and joins been now High Minister. Hello, how are you
very good? Thank you? These are roughts, aren't they.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well? Look, it was a fund set up by the
previous government. You know, it was vague, it wasn't particularly
for purpose, It didn't have good guard rails to prevent
exactly what's happened, and we ended up where we ended up.
This isn't. This isn't the type of thing this government
does these days.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Is this the well Being and Professional Development Fund you're
talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, it's the well Being Fund. It just didn't have
any really good guardrails about how we expected the money
to be spent on what we expected the outcomes to be.
And we've shifted very much in education now to outcomes
framework contracting. So hey, look what is the thing designed
for and what are we purchasing and what do we
expect from it? And that's what's going to raise achievement

(01:29):
and get all the things done in education we need.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Would tourist attractions in Queenstown qualifying.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
For a well being fund?

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Look, probably not. Can I just also I should say
that you know, ninety nine percent of principles actually used
the fund correctly. It's always you know that there was
a few, and it was boards that signed this out,
you know, that misused the money, and it wasn't for
the intention of the money. So I don't want to
malign the end higher sector. It wasn't the case at all.

(02:01):
It was always the case that it's just a few.
But you can avoid this if you have good outcomes
for the money. That you are investing. And that's what
we do. Now. This is not the kind of thing
that our government would ever do.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Okay, but what's the fund? So the fund still exists,
a well being fund. What's it worth? What's the total cost?

Speaker 2 (02:20):
No, well it doesn't. It's done. It was a previous
government's initiative and it's now finished. Party is over. It
was set up I think in the midst of COVID.
It was typical of the COVID era spending of the
previous government. Right, oh, throw some money out the door.
We don't worry about what the outcomes or what the
purpose is. We just throw some money out. And that's

(02:41):
why we've ended up with this huge debt. And this
is just a very small example of a much bigger
previous government problem. But it's finished now and we are
now putting our funds into far more dedicated, outcomes focused areas.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
What about the Auditor General's report identify some schools like
Takutak Papa Mardi or Mondaday and to Farakuda Manyadawa. This
is the twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two d twenty
twenty three audits. School board provided so little financial information
auditors could not give an opinion on their accounts. What
happens to that school?

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Well, the Ministry of Education will follow up, it's the
first thing. I've also just commissioned a letter this morning
to boards of trustees, because you've got to remember that
boards are the ones that sign a lot of us
out and are accountable for this. And so I'll be
writing to that or I am writing to the Boards
of Trustees Association to say what advice are you giving
two boards that we end up with this kind of
behavior as well. So we've just got to tighten this

(03:37):
crews in a few different places. But the Ministry will
be following up, as they always do every year with
these schools who are not doing what they're supposed to.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
But what happens if they follow up and this happens again,
this is three years on the trot.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, there are graduated interventions that the Ministry of Education
can undertake when we find that there is financial mismanagement.
We can put commissioners in and all sorts, so we
can desig boards. But we always start with a hey,
what's gone wrong in an education approach and then follow
up with a graduated set of sanctions. But where there

(04:10):
is serious financial mismanagement. I mean we can dissolve the
board of trustees.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
All right, good to know, Minister. Appreciate your time. Education Minister,
Erica Stamford. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen
live to news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,
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