Full Show Podcast: 10 September 2026

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Pressing the newsmakers to get the real story. It's Heather
Duplessy-Allen Drive with One New Zealand, awarded New Zealand's best
mobile network.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
News Talk ZB.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Hey, good afternoon. Welcome to the show. Coming up today,
it turns out that 30,000 people missed out on their
winter energy payments and their benefits. Because that rushed law
will speak to the boss of MSD after five, David Seymour,
on his Waitangi Tribunal policy. And apparently we are buying
more Warriors merchandise this year than any other year. So
we'll have a chat to the Warriors marketing boss. You

(00:35):
know what Act Waitangi Tribunal policy is? In my opinion,
it's the kind of policy you release when you don't
actually want to have to do the thing that the
policy makes it, gives the impression you're going to do.
So ACT's policy headline is that they're scrapping the Waitangi Tribunal,
which many people, including me, will think is a good
idea because the tribunal has gone completely off piste. It's
started to resemble a branch of the Maori Party because

(00:57):
it's finding in real time that one government policy after
another is breaching the Treaty of Waitangi. And in some cases,
it's finding this against government policies that haven't even become
law yet, which means there's no actual breach of the
treaty because it hasn't happened yet. Now, when the point
of the Waitangi Tribunal was to investigate contemporary breaches, not

(01:17):
the possibility of contemporary breaches, the difference is material because
the difference turns the tribunal into a political player. So
because it's become exactly that, a political player, which was
not the intention, it's not unreasonable to want to applaud
a plan to scrap the tribunal. However, that is not
what ACT's plan is because ACT is only proposing to

(01:38):
scrap the tribunal when all the historical claims are settled.
And when do you think that's going to be, eh?
When do you think that's going to be? It's only
going to happen when Ngapuhi finally settles. And Ngapuhi is
not going to settle any time soon because they are
still all fighting with each other about it. And I
reckon they're going to be fighting for decades. So this is,

(01:58):
in my opinion, so far in the future that I
reckon David Seymour will be retired and hanging out with
his grandkids before this actually happens. beware these kinds of
policies this election. You will come across a lot of them.
These are policies that are designed to make it look
like a party is going to do the thing that
you really want them to do, but without them actually

(02:19):
having to go through the political drama of doing it.
And this is a case in point.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Heather Dupacy-Allen.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
David Seymour's with us after five o'clock, so he can
bring his best argument to tell us that we're wrong.
Hopefully we are, but I doubt it. 9292 is the
text number. Standard text fees apply. Now, Kiwi brewers, as
I was telling you the other day, Kiwi brewers are
frustrated at the raw deal that they're getting in Australia
at the moment. What is going on is that Aussie
brewers of beer get a full tax rebate on the excise,

(02:49):
but our brewers don't, and the dispute has dragged on
for more than a decade. Joss Ruffell is one of
the co-founders of Garage Project and with us.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
Hey, Joss.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Hey, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (02:58):
I'm very well, thank you. How much of a problem
is this for you?

Speaker 5 (03:03):
This has become a huge problem for us. The excise
rebate for Australian breweries is now $ 400, 000 Australian dollars a year.
So collectively for just our brewery alone, we've paid $ 2. 5
million of tax in Australia we otherwise shouldn't have if
this had been resolved earlier.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
They're doing it for the wine guys, right? And they've
done it for 25 years for our wine guys, given
them the full... tax rebate, why won't they do it
for beer?

Speaker 5 (03:29):
So this was introduced for New Zealand wineries in 2004,
the wet rebate. The beer excise remission came in in
2012 at a much lower level, but it has been
increased over the subsequent decade to have parity for Australian wineries,
distilleries and breweries, who are all now receiving that $ 400, 000.
So The real question is, you know, why aren't New

(03:51):
Zealand distilleries and breweries also having access where New Zealand
wineries are?

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Well, that's what I'm asking you, Joss.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Why?

Speaker 5 (03:58):
Well, you know, MFAT's looked into this. It's a clear
breach of CER. And we've had some really encouraging news
in the last week where Minister Maclay has actually now
raised this openly with his Australian counterpart. And he's acknowledged
that there is a precedent with wine. So we are
seeing progress. We just really want to see that. pressure
applied and see some constructive discussions now turn into a saloon.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
In terms of export markets, where does Australia rate for you?

Speaker 5 (04:25):
It's our number one export market by far. We have
a team on the ground in Melbourne. We have an office,
a warehouse. This has essentially been an effective tariff on
New Zealand beer. And we would have been in a
position to actually invest more into that market if we'd
been receiving the excise remission and playing on a level
playing field with our Australian brewery counterparts.

Speaker 6 (04:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
I mean, if you guys got this money back, you
would presumably go up. You'd be able to sell more,
wouldn't you?

Speaker 5 (04:55):
Absolutely. We can invest in more employment in Australia. We
could do more marketing promotion. That drives more production in
New Zealand, more jobs back here. I mean, everyone wins.
It's just a no-brainer that this needs to happen.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
You wouldn't cut the price? Just in case it's going
to get done.

Speaker 5 (05:11):
Well, that's what we're facing in Australia is we're competing
against breweries who have a $ 400, 000 head start and they
can choose not to essentially put excise onto their beers
when they sell it into the market. And as you know,
excise has grown significantly in both Australia and New Zealand
in the last few years. So that's a massive disadvantage

(05:31):
for us. We're sort of fighting with one arm tied
behind our back there.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Do you reckon New Zealand beer is better than Aussie beer?

Speaker 6 (05:39):
I think, you know.

Speaker 5 (05:41):
One of the fantastic things about the Australian market, as
you're seeing with New Zealand wine and our beer, is
they're not afraid to admit when they see quality. And
they love New Zealand wine. They love New Zealand beer.
And it's a fantastic thing.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, I reckon you guys do a better product. By
the way, are you going to do any more of
End of the Golden Weather?

Speaker 5 (06:01):
Well, it's a beer that takes a long time to brew.
And we have got a new batch coming through. But
it takes years for a batch of End of the
Golden Weather.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
How long does it take?

Speaker 5 (06:12):
Well, it's a wild beer, so it's a spontaneous fermentation.
It's aged on central Otago fruit. It's more akin to
a wine in some ways. It spends a lot of
time in barrel.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, but how long? How many years?

Speaker 5 (06:26):
We have beer in barrel for several years. We have
some beers that take two, three, four years in barrel.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Before they're ready. I mean, look, I'm getting really specific here.
You might not know, but do you know when you
did the last batch?

Speaker 5 (06:40):
Oh, the last batch? I'm not going to. Two years ago.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
And are you doing it with apricots?

Speaker 5 (06:46):
Yeah, Central Otago fruit.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Just so good. You know what? You've cheered me up immensely.
I can't tell you how happy I am to hear
there's more of this stuff coming. Joss, look after yourself
and best of luck. Joss Ruffell, Garage Project co-founder. I mean, look,
this is not– I'm not telling you to drink alcohol.
But if on a day that you're– number one, you're
not an alcoholic, okay, and number two, you're just going
to drink responsibly.

Speaker 7 (07:07):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
And number three, you like a sour. You could do
worse than get an end of the golden weather. That
is amazing. As I told you, I reckon I cleaned
out the last of them in Wellington, found them at
the regional wines and beers. And I wasn't even living
in Wellington. They had to ship it all the way
to Auckland to make me happy, or maybe Coromandel or
something like that. Anyway, look for that. He says it's
coming soon. Kmart has opened its newest store at Westgate.

(07:30):
Two things about this that are interesting. Number one, it
is now New Zealand's largest Kmart store. Number two, they've
changed where the checkouts are. So instead of being weirdly
in the middle of the shop, like they are in
St Luke's, the checkouts are going to be at the
front of the shop, which is logical, isn't it? Like,
why did they ever think it was a good idea
to put the checkouts in the center? Because obviously, I'm just,

(07:51):
I mean, look, I'm not a shop, I'm not a
retail expert. I'm not the one who goes out, goes
there and like designs the layout. But I thought it
was abundantly clear that if you put it in the
middle of the shop, as old mate comes through with
the bag full of stuff, five-finger discount or something just
hanging on the rack there. Do you know what I mean?
As you walk through it. So surely from a security perspective,
it's smarter to put it at the front.

Speaker 7 (08:11):
Anyway.

Speaker 8 (08:11):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
We're going to talk about this with Chris Wilkinson, first
retail group managing director who will be with us after
6 o'clock. Because the other thing as well is, is
Westgate now becoming more of a destination than Sylvia Park?
Because be honest about it. Sylvia Park, if you think
about going to Sylvia Park in Auckland, don't you just
die inside a little bit? You go, oh, traffic.

Speaker 9 (08:32):
I do that.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Oh, car parking. I try to limit my visits to
Sylvia Park to like maximum two a year because it sucks.
So I'm not unhappy. about Westgate becoming the destination, quarter past.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Heather, I love.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
The ACT policy. I cannot understand at all your weird
comprehension of it, national voter. I told you I love
the ACT policy too. You and I do not disagree
on that. What I'm telling you is it's not going
to happen. It's not going to happen because it's tied
to the end of the settlements and Ngapuhi's not going
to settle. You and I are going to be dead
and buried. By the time Ngapuhi settles, so you're stuck

(09:12):
with the Waitangi Tribunal for the rest of your life.
That's the problem I've got. I want to get rid
of it now. 18 past four.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Sport with Generate.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Celebrating great performances in sport and KiwiSaver accounts.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Jason Pine, host of Weekend Sport, is with us. Hello, Piney. Oh, Lord,
hang on a tick. There he is. Bear with. Piney,
are you there?

Speaker 10 (09:30):
I'm here.

Speaker 11 (09:31):
Hello, Heather.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Sorry, that's a technical difficulty for me. I forgot to
press the button. Now, Piney, tell me what you're expecting
in terms of the teams for the test.

Speaker 12 (09:40):
Quite a few changes obviously needed for the All Blacks.
We've got three who started last week who aren't available
this week, and that's Artie Savia, Luke Jacobson and Quinn Pyre.
So that's three enforced changes to the 15. And then
you've got to start thinking about, okay, without Artie there,
without Luke Jacobs in there, who's captain of the side,
and you think, okay, Cody Taylor might come back in,

(10:01):
but does he actually start the test match? Asafa Wamua
had a good test last week. So is Geordie Barrett
perhaps going to captain the side? On the reserves bench,
do you look for a bit of different impact?

Speaker 13 (10:10):
I mean, by comparison, Heather.

Speaker 12 (10:12):
Ratia Rasmus is named pretty much the same side. He
hasn't buttoned off at all. So, Yeah, 8.45 tomorrow morning,
I think it's when we find out about the team. And, yeah,
apart from those enforced changes, I think the ones that
are selectorial will also be very, very interesting.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Is it true that the trophy is magnetised so you
can split it in half if it's 2-2?

Speaker 12 (10:34):
It's like a child's toy. If you have two children...
and both of them want to play with the toy,
you can split it in half and then put it
back together with the magnets.

Speaker 6 (10:42):
Yeah, so that's true.

Speaker 12 (10:44):
If the All Blacks win on Sunday, they take half
and South Africa take half.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
That's just ridiculous. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Is it not dumb to you, Piney?

Speaker 12 (10:56):
It seems odd, doesn't it? It's like, yeah, I mean,
I think I said to you last week, for me,
the series was the three-match series in South Africa. I
feel like they should have left it there. South Africa,
it's yours. Oh, by the way, we're going to play
one more game in Baltimore. Bit of a cash grab,
and it's a one-off, you know?

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Take half your trophy, so you're stuck with half a trophy.
That's just going to look hideous as well. Who wants
a trophy with only one handle? I suppose there are
some out there. Hey, Carlos Alcaraz being knocked out of
the tennis, is that weird for you? Was that a shock?

Speaker 13 (11:21):
Big surprise.

Speaker 12 (11:22):
Defending champion at the US Open. He won it last year.
He won the Australian Open earlier this year. He has
been out with injury. He didn't play in either Wimbledon
or the French Open, so he's coming back from injury.
But he'd look pretty good getting through to the quarterfinals.
Ben Shelton, young up-and-coming American, eighth in the world. So
it's not like a shock for the ages, but it
is shocking. A surprise. He's never beaten Alcaraz before. And

(11:44):
as I say, Carlos is good on the surface. So, yeah,
Shelton goes forward. He faces another American, Francis Tiafoe, in
the semifinal. Alexander's very on the outside. He's the top seed,
the favorite now with Alcaraz gone for sure. But, yeah, no,
it's a big surprise. Also a surprise to the locals
that it finished at 3.34 in the morning. That's when
that game finished in New York. So a late night
for many of the tennis fans at Flushing.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
I would not have lasted that long. That is just crazy. Piney,
thank you very much. Jason Pine. Weekend sport host. Heather,
Westgate is the worst with its huge stores and its
tiny roads. Heather, the weird thing about the Kmart cash
registers is if you go back about 15 years, the
checkouts were at the front. I remember when they moved
them to the middle of the store and thought it
was weird.

Speaker 14 (12:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Somebody's smart idea, wasn't it? Not that smart. 422.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Hear what matters. The facts over the noise.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
It's Heather Duplessy-Allen Drive with One New Zealand. Awarded New
Zealand's best mobile network. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
The trophy's not a cup, it's a pyramid. And it's
actually quite cool when it's split in two. Well, aesthetically,
it might be cool, and I'll accept that. But from
a principal point of view, it's not cool, is it?
Because it's like that new wave parenting technique, everyone's a winner.
You don't want to raise your children like that. Now,
if you're in the Coromandel, and you know why a
bottlenose dolphin has been decapitated, the Department of Conservation would

(13:05):
really like to hear from you. Because it is washed
up on Pawanui Beach, and it's pretty clear, they say,
that some kind of tool has been used to remove
its head, and it is a fully protected species, so
that should not have happened. 425... Tell you what, if
you're sick in the Waikato, how about you try avoiding
the ED at Waikato Hospital? Because that doesn't sound like
a place that's going to be helping you much. It
turns out there's just revelation after revelation about this place.

(13:27):
Do you remember this is the place where the guy
went in and he sat there for nine and a
half hours and then he went to the toilet and
carked it. And then they were like, oh, there's nothing
we could do about it. And then they turned up
on Paddy Gower's show and they were like, oh yeah,
maybe if he'd seen a doctor, we could have saved
his life, which is what I want to hear. Because
generally that's why I go to the hospital. So anyway,
that happened. Then we're finding out today that a patient

(13:47):
collapsed and needed CPR last month, had been there 40
minutes waiting. So the CPR obviously saved the life. And
then we found out earlier this week that someone waited
27 and a half hours to be seen. Now think
about how long that is. 27 and a half hours.
That's you getting there at seven o'clock at night, waiting
all night, all next day, getting back around to seven

(14:07):
o'clock at night, and you're only getting seen at half
past 10 the next night. 27 and a half hours
is completely unacceptable. There were about three cases of people
who waited around about a day to be seen. That's nutty.
Avoid if you can. Heather, you don't sound sick. What
happened to you yesterday? Well, where to start? So as

(14:30):
you know, I have been sick now for 12 weeks.
I'm not making this up. My doctor is quite concerned.
So five weeks of like, sorry, indulge me because it's
a yarn. So I have now had a sinus infection
for five weeks on top of whatever the hell else
has been going on for the other bloody seven weeks
or whatever. Anyway, what happened was at the weekend after

(14:50):
four weeks of sinus infection, I had a guts full,
as you can well imagine, like that you probably get
to that point after four weeks. So somebody said to
meet my mum. She was like, you should do the
sinus clear with the bottle. Because she's always into like
weird little like hippie things that she does all the time. Well,
guess what? I did that. And then I gave myself
a new bug in my sinuses. And it was so
bad on Tuesday night. I was lying at my friend's

(15:12):
house in Wellington, like shaking and shivering and fevering and stuff.
So anyway, I went back to my doctor yesterday. And
she's given me apparently a broad spectrum antibiotic that's going
to kill every bacteria in my body. So we're in
for a ride. And then she sent me for blood tests.
And she was like, I just want you to go
down the road, get some blood tests. I was like, cool.
you checking for cancer? She's like, yep. We're at that stage.

(15:35):
We are now checking for cancer because we don't know
what the hell is going on with me. I don't
have cancer, don't worry. Well, I'm sweating a lot right now.
I might have cancer. Anyway, fingers crossed. Off to Australia next.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Half past four.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Answers here what matters it's heather duplicy allen drive with
one new zealand awarded new zealand's best mobile network news
talk zb question.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
For you.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Do you think Louise Upston should be the one who
is fronting today? Now, what this is about is the
missed payments, OK? If you haven't caught up on this,
a whole bunch of people, veterans, pensioners and beneficiaries, have
missed out on payments this winter because of a law
change that Louise... It's basically Louise's fault, OK? So what
Louise did was she rushed a law last year, and

(16:33):
she probably didn't have to do it that quickly, but
did it really quickly, and because she did it really quickly...
No one spotted that there were mistakes in the law
until April this year, by the looks of things. And
people started turning up saying, hey, I'm not getting my
winter energy payment. What the hell's going on here? And
the bosses didn't realise it until last month, which is
a four month gap. And then things got fixed. And
so they've had a review at MSD. They've taken a

(16:54):
look at it and they've said, yep, 30,000 people were
affected by this. And ultimately it comes back to the
fact that the law was rushed. But Louise is not
fronting today. She is making Debbie Now, fair enough, because
MSD are the ones who are implementing it and doing
all the payments and stuff. But if the actual fault
here lies with the minister who rushed the law through,

(17:14):
should the minister who rushed the law through not be
the one who was fronting today and answering questions on it?
Because this is a classic case of throwing the public
servant in front of the bus to take the fall
for you. I really like Louise. I really, really like
Louise Upston. And I've got a lot of time for
her and I think she's doing good things. But this
feels a little bit like cowardice. And I'd like your
opinion on whether she should be the one. I could

(17:35):
be completely wrong and it could be being unfair. So
you let me know and we'll ask Barry Soper when
he's with us in 10 minutes time. And then, of course,
Debbie from MSD, the poor bird, is fronting up after five.
23 away from five.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
It's The World Wires on Newstalk's EpiDrive.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
An Israeli strike has hit a residential building in a
Gaza City refugee camp. The Al-Shati camp has been a
long-established refugee camp, housing people displaced in Palestine by wars
dating all the way back to the 1940s. Because it's
existed for so long, it's been developed into a few
apartment blocks designed to house displaced people temporarily, and of
course that is no longer the case.

Speaker 15 (18:10):
We're currently in a Saudi refugee camp and this rooftop
had only a couple of minutes to evacuate before the
Israeli forces would hit this target. And as you see,
the whole block was actually destroyed and damaged from this attack.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
The Israeli military has confirmed that they were the ones
who fired that. On to the next Middle East conflict, Iran.
Both sides are ramping up their strikes again as we
head back into the cycle.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
This is the latest.

Speaker 10 (18:42):
Exchange between U.S. and Iranian forces. And it's the outcome
of this cycle, of this new cycle, where now U.S.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Forces are starting.

Speaker 10 (18:51):
To target Iranian oil tankers and Iranian forces are responding
by aggressively targeting U.S.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Assets and U.S.

Speaker 10 (19:00):
Navy ships near the Strait of Hormuz.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Meanwhile, Trump has assured media that the war will be
over immediately after the midterm elections.

Speaker 14 (19:08):
I think the war is going to end immediately after
the election. I think the war will end immediately after
the election. Because they can't hold out any longer. They're
desperate to try and affect the election so that we
can get a nice, weak group of people in there
and leave them alone and let them have their nuclear weapon.

Speaker 6 (19:29):
All they want is a nuclear weapon.

Speaker 14 (19:31):
And if they had a nuclear weapon, the whole world
is in deep trouble.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
And finally... Awkward. Uganda has pulled out of the Invictus Games.
The Invictus Games being Harry's project. Why are they pulling out?

Speaker 13 (19:47):
Harry.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
That's the reason. Hazza and Mezza. General Mahuzi Kainerugaba, who's
the son of the president or something like that, and
also the military chief, you know how it rolls in Uganda,
announced the withdrawal on social media. He said Uganda did
not want to be seen as opposing the king amid
ongoing royal tensions. It's probably all about that letter, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (20:08):
International Correspondence with NZI Insurance. Peace of mind for New
Zealand business.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Ollie Peterson, Australia correspondent with us now.

Speaker 16 (20:17):
Hey, Ollie.

Speaker 12 (20:19):
G'day, Heather.

Speaker 17 (20:19):
Hey, what?

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Are you serious that people are nicking cars in Australia
to sell the parts to Iran and Russia?

Speaker 18 (20:26):
Well, that's what we're hearing from the Insurance Council today.
And I find this staggering, to be perfectly honest, because
when I thought somebody was stealing a car, they were
doing that because they needed to get to their next destination.
Turns out that tens of thousands of death claims are
now pointing to the fact that parts are being sold

(20:46):
and then exported into places like Iran and Russia, as
you just said there. So The insurance is starting to
warn us that organised criminals are now stealing our cars
specifically to strip them for parts. It's obviously a sophisticated
network that's behind this, Heather, and it probably won't come
as any big surprise to you, but Victoria and Melbourne
is where most of the cars are being stolen.

Speaker 8 (21:05):
At the moment.

Speaker 18 (21:06):
Then obviously New South Wales, Queensland, over here in WA.
There's not as many cars being stolen, but you just
look at the population. But it obviously also raises the question,
how can these parts then get through our export and
customs systems?

Speaker 3 (21:19):
And what are they doing on the other side? Is
it just for your civilian cars or is it for
military things?

Speaker 18 (21:25):
Well, that's what we don't know. But you would sort
of join the dots here, right? If they're going to countries,
like you say, in terms of Iran and Russia, then
what are these parts in these cars being used for?
And I think your suggestion there on the military idea
is one that I thought about as well.

Speaker 13 (21:40):
Interesting.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
Now, what's the problem in Adelaide with Liv?

Speaker 18 (21:45):
What's the problem is I think the South Australian government
might be in la-la land here, Heather, because obviously we
know what's going on with Liv.

Speaker 19 (21:53):
And the South Australian government saying, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 18 (21:55):
Everything's fine, right? We're having this 2027 event because taxpayers
aren't exposed under the existing arrangements.

Speaker 6 (22:02):
Hello?

Speaker 18 (22:03):
They've just filed for bankruptcy, Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in
the U.S., And obviously those liabilities are now ranging from
$ 500 million to $ 1 billion US. So if the players
are getting paid here, you really think the South Australian
government is going to get their lick in this? I
don't think so.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
No, I think you might well be right. Hey, what's
going on with Qantas feeding the Rams?

Speaker 6 (22:27):
Now, I like this.

Speaker 18 (22:28):
I don't know about you, but I would think if
you're coming out to play gridiron in Melbourne this weekend,
then you'd want all.

Speaker 19 (22:35):
Of those bells and whistles on your aircraft.

Speaker 18 (22:37):
Like, I've always thought, you know, you've got to just–
I don't know about you, Heather. You probably sit at
the front. But when I'm sitting down in the back
and I just get offered beef or fish, I'm thinking,
you know, I'd really like to be able to order
my own food here on the aircraft or get something
I want. So Qantas, ever the publicity machine that it is,
and well done to them, they have decided that they
will be providing the Rams with cheeseburgers.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
And the like.

Speaker 18 (22:56):
They've obviously now finally arrived here in Australia. They were
a little funny about the idea that they were going
to be given these different, you know, guinea pigs and
test pattern travels, but they've really curated the menu here
for the Rams players coming into Australia. So cheeseburgers, as
they were a hit, They've arrived much.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Earlier than usual.

Speaker 18 (23:14):
It's a new kind of strategy, as I said, when
you sleep, when you wake up. Qantas, obviously, using it
as a bit of a test case as well to
just remind everybody they're soon going to have that aircraft
that'll be able to fly from Sydney to New York nonstop.
I think they're going via Auckland, aren't they, at some
stage as well? They're trying to get that new aircraft.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
How are you getting that? Yeah, why not? If I
can have a cheeseburger, I'll love it. Ollie, look after yourself, mate,
as always. It's good to talk to you. Ollie Peterson,
who is the ABC Perth Drive presenter, 17 away from five.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Heather, it should be MSD fronting.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
They should have raised the issue and fixed it much sooner.
That's true. Heather, it's not Louise being a coward. It's
making the person who's actually responsible face up to it.
That is actually Louise. That's why she should front up
to it. Heather, both should have fronted. Heather, Louise should
have apologised weeks ago. She's left herself open to this criticism. Actually,
that's probably a fair point too. Hey, by the way,
on the Australian government's plan to let the Aussies opt

(24:07):
out of social media algorithms that control what they see,
I told you about this the other day, Instagram's boss
has now responded to it and said that social media users...
will actually have a worse experience if there was no
algorithm because influencers and marketers and advertisers put up more
content than normal people. So what that basically means is
if you don't have that algorithm curating what you see,

(24:27):
all you're going to see is just advertising from all
these people all the time. You're never going to see
your mate's posts, which two things I find surprising because
all I'm seeing is ads at the moment. Like I'm
hardly seeing my mate's posts. So I don't know what
kind of content curation is going on there. I'd say nothing.
Number two is, If you can opt out, you can
opt back in. So you opt out, you go, oh, no,
I like the algorithm. Go back to the algorithm. So

(24:49):
once again, to the social media giants, I say BS.
What a surprise. They're telling fibs. Barry Soper next, 16
away from five.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Politics with Centrix. Credit check your customers and get payment certainty.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
David Seymour on his Waikangi Tribunal policy after five o'clock.
It's 13 away from five. Barry Soper's with us. Hello, Barry.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Good afternoon, Heather.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Okay, so tell me what you think of the 30,000
beneficiaries and pensioners and veterans being docked their pay.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
It's extraordinary, isn't it? Well, how it came about was
the winter energy payment was incorrectly included in legislation that
was put through under urgency and that required clients to
to complete a form confirming their details to continue receiving
the payment. Now, if they didn't complete that form, then

(25:35):
certain welfare payments could be stopped. So that's what happened, basically.
The MSD chief executive, I know you've got her on,
Debbie Power, she fronted the media this afternoon and did
what you'd have to describe a maxima mea culpa.

Speaker 17 (25:50):
I am accountable for the delivery of policy advice and
the implementation of policies for... on behalf of the government.
It is my accountability.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
We got it wrong.

Speaker 17 (26:00):
We are experienced in dealing with and implementing policies and
work programmes like this. We have got it wrong. In
the report, it says that it's clear that we don't
have the ability under our legislation to pay compensation. It
requires us to remediate, and that's what we've done.

Speaker 4 (26:19):
So there'll be no compensation, obviously. And she who didn't
know the numbers in the House, of course, was... Louise Upston.
But not surprisingly, she wasn't available today, as you well know, Heather.
If you listen to the Prime Minister, that would appear
to be by design. Let the beneficiaries take the fall.

Speaker 9 (26:40):
MSD are going to talk to that this afternoon. I
think themselves, I heard them apologise, as they should have yesterday,
and I'm sorry as well for people that have been
impacted by that. But, you know, MSD's role, and we
have high expectations of them, is to respect all clients,
and they're often vulnerable New Zealanders. And the good news
is that 93% of all hardship applicants, I think, have
been approved in.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Recent years, and that's a good thing.

Speaker 9 (27:01):
But there's obviously technical issues that they need to talk to,
operational issues they need to talk to, and I know
they'll be doing that this afternoon.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Or maybe they should make their legislation a bit clearer.
But that's not where the blame should lie. If you
listen to Labour's Chris Hipkins, he's revelling in what he
says is squarely the Minister Louise Upston's mistake and certainly
not the bureaucrats.

Speaker 20 (27:23):
This is a mistake that Louise Upston has made. This
law change was her law change. She was responsible for
getting this right. She pushed it through Parliament with no scrutiny.
As a result, a significant mistake was made. Christopher Luxon
should be holding her accountable for that. That is his
job as the Prime Minister. It's absolutely unacceptable that the

(27:45):
Minister who has made this mess is running away from scrutiny.

Speaker 21 (27:49):
She should be fronting up.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
She should be apologising.

Speaker 20 (27:52):
She should be genuine in that apology. And she should
be accepting responsibility for the fact that it was her
law change that created this fiasco.

Speaker 22 (28:00):
Well.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
That's true. It was her law change, but maybe if
they'd read the law a bit more closely, we wouldn't
have had the botch-up that we've seen.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
Who's they?

Speaker 23 (28:10):
Well, the bureaucrats.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
But Barry, the law... did not exclude, like they followed
the law. She stuffed up the law.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
Well, yes, but if they had filled out the forms,
they wouldn't have had their benefits docked. And that should
have been explained by the bureaucrats maybe to the beneficiaries.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
But the pensioners, right? So this affected pensioners.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
Yes, it did, yep.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
And it affected veterans. And every year they were supposed
to come back and reconfirm that they were pensioners and veterans.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
Well, that's what the expectation clearly was.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, because I don't know about you, but I've never
heard of a pensioner who's a pensioner who next year
is not a pensioner.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
Oh, that's right.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
Or a veteran who's suddenly on veterans.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
No, it was an absolute botcher.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
So this is a Louise mistake.

Speaker 17 (28:50):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Why is she making Debbie Power take the fall for it?

Speaker 4 (28:54):
Well, pretty obvious, isn't it? The election is less than
two months away.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
You reckon she's going to get away with this? This
is not fair. Like, I don't mind it when public servants.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Well, it's not fair on Debbie Power.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
No, I don't mind it when public servants are forced
to take the fall when they make mistakes. But when
a minister forces a public servant to take the fall
for a minister's mistake, that's not fair.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
No, no.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
No, it's not fair. I mean, I wouldn't argue with that.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
Okay, so she should front up.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
Well, she should have fronted up, yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
Yeah, OK, Waitangi Tribunal.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
Well, you know, is the time nigh or not?

Speaker 3 (29:24):
No, not nigh.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
No, it's not. And, you know, it's quite extraordinary, really.
The first line in their press statement today said it all.
Act will complete the remaining historical treaty claims in the
Waitangi Tribunal's contemporary jurisdiction and wind it up once the
historical work is finished. Now, what does that mean? Historical work?

(29:49):
They could go on forever. And they're likely to, if
certainly ACT's to be taken at his word. Of course,
David Seymour fronted the policy today. and said once the
claims are settled, the tribunal will have served its usefulness.

Speaker 24 (30:04):
The original need for the Waitangi Tribunal has evaporated as
our country has matured into a place with strong property rights,
the rule of law and restraints on the use of
military power. And there is no longer need to have
a parallel quasi-government authority. And that is why the ACT
Party announces that as part of our commitment to one
law for all and one future together, we will campaign

(30:27):
for the Waitangi Tribunal to finish the historic settlements that
were lodged before 2008 and then cease to operate.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
Well, you know, the government's done a review of the
Waitangi Tribunal. It's on Tama Potaka's desk. Why haven't we
seen it yet? I mean, the review's been done. And
Winston Peters, of course, he wants the Waitangi Tribunal reformed,
not scrapped. So, you know, I think he's probably going
down that track because he doesn't really like David Seymour

(30:57):
very much.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Oh, doesn't he? Barry, thanks very much. Barry Soper, senior
political correspondent, seven away from five.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
It's the Heather Duplessy-Allen Drive full show podcast on iHeartRadio,
powered by Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 13 (31:13):
Fearless.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Focused. Informed. It's the Mike Hosking Breakfast.

Speaker 25 (31:17):
What do we make of the HOSPO review? Too many fees,
repetitive paperwork, decision making takes too long. There are 24
recommendations including a major overhaul of alcohol licensing and not
as many renewals for lower risk operators. Christy Phillips is
the HOSPO New Zealand CEO.

Speaker 22 (31:30):
This review, I think what it's really done is highlighted
that this is endemic in the system.

Speaker 26 (31:35):
And it needs to change.

Speaker 25 (31:36):
There is a narrative in the media of woe and
misery in HOSPO. Does this fix it?

Speaker 22 (31:41):
There is a narrative. It doesn't mean it's always true.
This is a way of giving consistency and confidence for
hospital businesses to continue to grow.

Speaker 25 (31:50):
Back tomorrow at 6am, the Mike Hosking Breakfast with Bailey's
Real Estate.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
OK, now, I don't know if you're aware of this.
I wasn't aware of this. But Kevin, the producer, big
Warriors fan, huge Warriors fan, has season tickets and all
that kind of stuff, made sure he's got tickets to
the finals this weekend, like really into them. Sent his
wife to do the admin.

Speaker 5 (32:12):
Classic.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Sent his wife to do the admin and buy the merchandise.
And so she went into the shop yesterday and she
said it was going off. Like as soon as they
were putting the merchandise on for sale, it was selling out.
So she managed to get hold of one pair of
jandals for him and two jerseys, one for her and
one for him. And the jersey, I was surprised at

(32:33):
the price. Like it is, it's a good value. It's
a 60, you're paying $ 60 for the jersey. So I
said to Kev, the producer. I said, what are you
paying for an All Blacks jersey nowadays? Oh, and the
jandals are 30 bucks, which again is like not going
to break the bank, right? So anyway, they got two
jerseys and a pair of jandies for 150 bucks. So
I said, what's an All Blacks jersey going to set

(32:54):
you back? $ 167. So you can get two Warriors jersey
and a pair of jandals for less than you would
pay for an All Blacks jersey. Now, to be fair,
I mean, the Warriors do not have the international branding
that the All Blacks do, so I get that. But
this is kind of where the Warriors are coming in hard, eh?
Because they're still accessible. Like, you do not have to

(33:16):
stop feeding your children bread for a week in order
to buy a Warriors jersey, do you? You've got to
do that for the All Blacks jersey. Anyway, happy days.
One New Zealand sponsor of this show, also sponsor of
the Warriors. That's right. sent me a jersey, so I
have to wear the jersey tomorrow. I'm actually quite excited.
I've said to the boys in the newsroom before, I've said,
you're lame. They're all wearing jerseys every time somebody's playing.

(33:37):
I was like, you're lame, all you sports boys. I'm
totally in on lameness tomorrow, 100%. Debbie Power, boss of MSD,
after five.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
The only drive show you can trust to ask the questions,
get the answers, find the facts, and give the analysis.
Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. With One New Zealand. Awarded New
Zealand's best mobile network. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Good afternoon. It turns out that more than 30,000 people
have missed out on welfare payments this winter, which includes
pensioners and veterans who went without their winter energy payment.
MSD has found this through a review into what went
wrong after the government passed urgent legislation last year, which
required beneficiaries to confirm their circumstances every single year. Debbie
Power is the CEO of the Ministry of Social Development. Hi, Debbie.

Speaker 11 (34:30):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
So what happened?

Speaker 7 (34:33):
I think the review is really clear and identifies two issues.
The first is that the winter energy payment was wrongly
impacted for clients who are part of this review process
who receive winter energy payment and supplementaries. It was never intended.

(34:53):
The policy intent was never meant to impact these clients.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
And the second issue?

Speaker 7 (35:01):
And the second issue is the processing delays associated with
this work.

Speaker 19 (35:06):
Right.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
You didn't have enough staff to get through once you
realised there was something going wrong. So you apparently realised
in April, this is when you were alerted to the
fact that people were missing out on the money. Why
did it take until August to do something about it?

Speaker 12 (35:19):
You're right.

Speaker 7 (35:20):
People were raising questions very early on in the process.
And As often as the case when you introduce new legislation,
you will get both clients asking questions because it's new
and they don't necessarily understand what it means, and you'll
have staff raising questions. Both of those things were happening.

(35:40):
The problem was that they were consistently getting messages back
saying the system was operating as intended under the legislation.
That was technically correct. What we now know is it
was wrong.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Well, no, it's still not wrong, though, is it? That
is what the legislation said. So who were these messages coming,
like they were coming back, you said, from where?

Speaker 7 (36:01):
So they would have been coming back from MSD. So
we have a team of people who, you know, call
it a help desk or something like that, where people
would have been saying, is this right? Should this be happening?
and they would have been consistently, as I said before,
getting messages back saying the system is operating as it

(36:22):
is intended under the legislation.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Now, did you or anybody else go to the Minister
and say, is this what you meant?

Speaker 7 (36:33):
The first time that we talked to the Minister about
this was, as it is publicly known, on the 13th
of August. We discovered the issue.
Then and we talked to her we discovered the issue
on the 13th of August and talked to the Minister
on that same day.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
When did the legislation pass Debbie?

Speaker 7 (36:56):
It passed under urgency last year and it was implemented
from March this year. So there was a long time
between passing and implementation.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
But there would have been like heaps of people in
your organisation, lawyers and stuff, looking over it and saying
this is what the legislation means. And clearly there was
a massive mistake there. Like anybody looking at that would
have seen there's a mistake. So why did nobody go
back to the minister's office and say, did you mean
to do this?

Speaker 7 (37:26):
So what happened was the winter energy payment that was
impacted for clients who only, in this case superannuitants, who
only their subs were being reviewed, it was omitted throughout
the process. I know that sounds outrageous at one level,

(37:46):
but that is the truth. There was no intent. The
policy intent was never to impact these clients in this way.
We got it wrong.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yes, but the legislation was written so that it did
impact them that way, right?

Speaker 7 (38:01):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
That's exactly right. Now, I'm not cheating. I actually am
not cheating blame to you guys, right? This is a
failure at the Parliament level. But why didn't anybody go
to the Minister's office and go, hey, did you mean
for this to happen? Because you would have had a
team of very intelligent people looking at it and directing
your help desk and saying, this is what this means.
Why did nobody flag it with the Minister?

Speaker 7 (38:21):
So the issue was that as the report finds... It
was omitted through all of the processes. Nobody clocked that
this would be the impact. The legislation was passed. We
then went about from when the legislation passed until implementation, implementing,
getting ready for implementation. And then it came in on

(38:44):
the 2nd of March. And then as the report says,
we started getting questions raised at the end of April saying,
was this really intended? It wasn't until the 13th of
August when we realised that there was an unintended consequence
of the legislation impacting winter energy payments for this group
that we went to the Minister and said, we think

(39:05):
we've got a problem, we're sure this wasn't your policy intent,
and the rest is history.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Okay, why are you the one fronting and not the
Minister who is actually at fault here?

Speaker 7 (39:16):
Well, the Ministry's job is to deliver government policy, including
giving advice. and design and implementation. That's my job. So
I am accountable for this.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
All right, Debbie, thank you very much for your time.
Debbie Power, Ministry of Social Development, CE. It's 13 past five.
Act has promised to scrap the Waitangi Tribunal if it's
re-elected into government, but only once all claims have been settled.
The Act Leader, David Seymour, is with us.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Hey, David.

Speaker 6 (39:45):
Hey, Edith.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
When is it likely that all claims will be settled?

Speaker 16 (39:49):
That is very hard to know because Ngapuhi still haven't
got a mandate. It's not really something the government can control.
I've been to the odd Ngapuhi meeting and it's a
case of how long is a piece of string.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
So it potentially is years if not decades, right?

Speaker 16 (40:05):
Absolutely, and that's why a critical part of our policy
that may have been missed is to remove their jurisdiction
over what they call contemporary claims, where activists critique the
government of the day according to their reckons That ends
straight away, and then we leave them on a sort
of skeletal basis until they finish those remaining claims, bearing

(40:28):
in mind there's no new claims because they all had
to be in by 2008. Most have been done since then.
And then at the end of that final claim, which
will almost certainly be Ngapuhi, that's the end of the
Waitangi Tribunal, and we can have one law for all
and one future together.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Was the Waitangi Tribunal not actually established to look at
contemporary claims?

Speaker 16 (40:49):
Yeah, it certainly was, but I don't think that the
likes of Matt Rata, who were in Parliament at the time,
would recognise what it's doing today. We've had the Waitangi
Tribunal frequently harass the elected government, say that if we
make a law, it's an improper use of kawaii matanga
or government. The people that established it in 1975 were

(41:12):
actually Democrats. They were old-school Labour people who believed that
political authority should only be wielded by those who were
subject to free and fair elections, not a Waitangi Tribunal
that's become, in its own mind, almost a parallel government.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
I take your point on it, and I would like, frankly,
to see the back of it too. But if it
was set up to look at contemporary claims and you
are stopping it from looking at contemporary claims, why not
just wind it up instead of tying it to what's
going on with Ngapuhi? Just get rid of it now.

Speaker 16 (41:43):
Well, I've always been a supporter of the historical claims.
I think some things were done that were wrong, and
those wrongs should be righted. I think it's actually a
good thing that New Zealand has been able to forensically
look through its history and say, yep, fair.

Speaker 6 (41:58):
Cop, that was wrong.

Speaker 16 (42:00):
We will give you a partial compensation for that and
then move on. I think we should allow those who,
in good faith, registered their claims back in 2008 to
see them played out just like every other iwi has.
But when it comes to this political activism, that should
stop straight away. And I think the other way you

(42:21):
might think about it is, look, people say there still
needs to be protection for Māori rights.

Speaker 18 (42:29):
But if New.

Speaker 16 (42:30):
Zealanders have their rights protected by democracy and the court
system and the rule of law, which we mostly do,
then there's no need for something different for Māori. unless,
of course, you believe that Māori are different people with
a different standard of citizenship and different rights from other
human beings in New Zealand, which I strongly reject.

Speaker 6 (42:48):
All right.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Hey, David, thank you very much. Appreciate your time. David Seymour,
ACT Party leader, 16 past five. Let's get to the
Warriors next. Heather, you've got to hand it to Debbie.
At least she's fronting up and taking responsibility. Jeez, even
when it's not her actual fault. I'm going to come
back to this in just a minute, so stand by.
19 past five. Now, apparently... Warriors merchandise is just flying
out the door at the moment. Our producer's wife went
to the official store. It was jam-packed with people picking

(43:10):
up jerseys for what I think is a reasonable $ 60
a pop. Marketing and commercial chief at the Warriors, Glenn Harris,
is with us. Hey, Glenn.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
G'day, Heather.

Speaker 19 (43:18):
Happy game week.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
And to you, mate. Fizzing already. Is this the best
year for the merch yet?

Speaker 16 (43:25):
Look, it is.

Speaker 19 (43:25):
I mean, it's probably the best year across a lot
of different commercial drivers of the club. But I guess
merchandise is probably the one that's most visible because everyone
feels a sense of connection and togetherness. And the best
way to express that is obviously what they wear and
bring along to the game.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Now, are you selling amazingly just in Auckland or is
it everywhere?

Speaker 19 (43:47):
No, look, it's everywhere. I mean, we took a punt
on our brand this year and set up pop-up stores
in Australia and Wellington and Christchurch, and it's been the
same response everywhere. You know, such huge support, which is
actually quite overwhelming to see people in huge numbers wanting
to wear our colours and represent our brand. So everywhere
we go, people are in merch, and even if they

(44:09):
have merch, they want.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
To get more merch.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Now, I heard that the minute that you guys put
out a new jersey, it basically sells out. Is that
what's going on?

Speaker 19 (44:16):
Yeah, pretty much. It's not a number of minutes it
hangs around for now. It's gone quite quickly. But, you know,
I just think we've got such a passionate fan base,
always have, but now, you know, they're coming in huge numbers,
which means that, you know, we have to work pretty
hard to stay ahead of the demand.

Speaker 16 (44:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Now, it's National Wear Your Wars Day tomorrow. Which one
are you wearing?

Speaker 18 (44:37):
It is.

Speaker 19 (44:38):
I'll probably cycle through them each hour. I'll try a
different one. Look, I've got so many. I mean, you
can't beat some of the 95s, but this week we've
got a special edition finals tee for the game this Saturday.
So we're all going to be rocking that tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Is that the $ 60 one? That is reasonably priced, isn't.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
It, Glenn?

Speaker 6 (44:56):
Well, I think so.

Speaker 19 (44:57):
And, you know, you have to be sensible these days
with your value proposition. And we try from whether it's
ticket pricing to food and beverage in the venue, we
try and keep everything as accessible as we can because
we just want as many people in the stadium wearing
our gear and having as much fun as possible. So
the key to that is just making everything really affordable.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Yeah, brilliant. Hey, good on you, Glenn, and have a
lovely week. That's Glenn Harris, who is the Warriors marketing man.
Tell you what, $ 60. Okay, $ 60 for a Warriors jersey
or $ 65 for an ACT Party jersey? Because I don't
know if you've seen it, but the political party's merch
is out as well. And wait for it. I'm going
to run you through it shortly.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
5.21.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
It's the Heather Duplessy-Allen Drive full show podcast on iHeartRadio,
powered by Newstalk ZB. Digging deeper into the day's headlines,
it's Heather Duplessy-Allen Drive with One New Zealand, awarded New
Zealand's best mobile network.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
News Talk ZB.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Heather Ngapuhi should be given a deadline to sort themselves
out or forego their settlement. You can't, I love that idea,
but you can't do it. Because if you do it,
so you're saying to Ngapuhi, you've got to settle by,
pick a date, let's say 2030, got to settle by 2030.
And then they're not going to because they're just not
going to. And so then you force a settlement on them. Well,
that is just a treaty breach waiting to happen. So
you're just going to have to do it all over again.

(46:16):
So you can't really, you have to wait for them
to basically get there together. 524. Now, let me tell you,
just for the avoidance of doubt, let me tell you
what happened here. This mistake that led to 30,000 people
missing out on winter energy payments and benefits. It happened
because Louise Upston passed a piece of law so fast
under urgency in two days last year that no one
had the time to spot the fact that the law

(46:37):
had a mistake in it. What it was was that
law required MSD, the ministry, to check with people every
year that they were still entitled to the money they
were getting. And it didn't exclude pensioners and veterans getting
the winter energy payment, which they get because they are
pensioners and veterans. Now, of course, they should have been
excluded under those circumstances because once you're a pensioner, you're

(46:58):
a pensioner. You're not going to un-pension. You're going to
be a pensioner until you die. Once you're a veteran...
You're a veteran until you die. It doesn't change. So
they should have been exempted from this law, but they
weren't because it went through the parliamentary process too fast. Now,
this actually happens quite a lot. A few years ago
under urgency, they realised in parliament that they'd actually tabled
and voted through the wrong piece of legislation because they

(47:20):
were moving so fast. Happens all the time. The government,
this government, has used urgency a lot. Jacinda's government used
urgency a lot. And actually, they do it a lot
of the time because they're Maybe running out of time,
but maybe because they actually want to avoid too much
attention for too long a period on what they're doing.
That's why, for example, National tabled and rushed through the
pay equity bill. So they didn't want all the drama

(47:42):
of people focusing on it for a long time. But
they've been warned that if they do this, the consequences
of rushing it through is that there could be mistakes
that people don't spot and then fix. And in this case,
it's been really unfortunate because it has affected some of
the most hard-up people in this country at the worst
time of year. People relying on the pension, trying to
heat their homes in winter. That is a really hard
lesson for political parties on why they should not rush laws. Right,

(48:08):
this is some weird merch. Sometimes I love the little
weird things that the spin-off does when they go off
on a little tangent. And today what they've done is
a ranking of the best and worst merch that the
political parties are putting out. The best merch, they reckon...
is a cap with $ 20 fare written on it. So
it turns into a $ 20 fare cap. Do you get it?
It's a cap.

Speaker 6 (48:26):
You get it?

Speaker 3 (48:27):
A hat. $ 20 fare cap. And how much does it cost? $ 20.
And what's it about the Labour Party $ 20 fare cap?
I think, like, for a political nerd, that's actually quite funny.
But you have to be a political nerd. And actually
$ 20 for a cap is not that bad. Mike Buttrick
has put out a lip balm. You cannot buy this
lip balm. You have to be a friend of Mike's.
But Mike might also drop it off to a school
in the Wairarapa at any stage. So just keep an

(48:49):
eye out for that. The Māori Party is selling a jacket.
How much do you think the Māori Party is charging
for a jacket, eh? How much do you think? It's
like just a little windbreaker jacket. Just like a little
bit of a, you know, 1990s hip-hop jacket. How much
do you think? $ 250. Oh, yes. You can't accuse JT,
John Tamahere, of selling things too cheap, eh? You can't

(49:11):
accuse the Māori Party of being concerned about Māori voters
who are struggling to put food on the table. $ 250
for a jacket. Thanks very much. There's some weird ones, though.
Stand by I'm going to give them to you next.
Newstalk ZB. Heather, I bought Axe Clean Skin Wine as

(49:44):
a merchant. It was terrible. Turned it into mulled wine
for a cold night. Well, that's a good use of it.
I mean, you don't want to buy a clean skin wine,
do you, from a political party? What about this one, though?
Would you buy underwear branded with the Green Party? Like
you would have to love, wouldn't you have to love
the Green Party though? You'd have to love the Green Party,
wouldn't you?

Speaker 21 (50:03):
I would so buy those.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
That's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Would you lock? So you'd take off your pants and
you'd see the Green Party logo. And they, your lover,
would see the Green Party logo. I mean, it might
be your first date. You'd take off your pants and
that's what they're seeing. Is that what you want?

Speaker 21 (50:19):
My girlfriend's a huge Greenie.

Speaker 12 (50:21):
She would love that.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
Would you pay $ 49 for it?

Speaker 2 (50:25):
No.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Don't accuse the Green Party of being poor. Don't accuse
the Green Party of looking after the working people. What
is this? Who was old mate who bought all the
knickers when he was working at Maori TV? Is he
advising them again? Lord above, I say again, like he
has before he hasn't. The huddle is going to be
with us shortly. It's 24 away from six. Apple has,
speaking of pricey things, Apple has unveiled the new iPhone.

(50:46):
It's called the Duo. It's Apple's first folding phone. Prices
start at $ 4, 200. $ 4, 200. Business Desk's journalist, Peter Griffin, is
with us now. Hello, Peter.

Speaker 18 (50:56):
Hey, Heather.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
That price is mental, isn't it?

Speaker 8 (50:59):
It's sort of getting ridiculous. You know, this is a
phone for press conferences and influencers, really. I mean, it
looks beautiful by all accounts. I haven't touched it yet,
but by all accounts, it's beautiful. incredibly well engineered, but
you're talking about the wealthiest consumer tech company in the world.

(51:20):
It's taken years to develop this. So you'd expect the
product excellence, and we sort of expected it would be expensive,
but really everything that was released today, the Duo, the foldable,
but also the iPhone Pro, we're looking at $ 2, 549. That's
$ 200 more than than last year. The max is $ 2, 749.

(51:42):
We're in tears of exclusivity here where Apple isn't really
a company for mainstream people anymore. They're quite happy to
go after these small groups of people who literally have
the money to fork out for these devices.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
Is this a smart move from them, though, potentially, to
go for more exclusive stuff? Because everybody has basically got
a phone now, right? We hold on to them for
quite a long time. So if they're just pumping out
iterations of the same thing, we're probably not going to
upgrade that much, are we?

Speaker 8 (52:18):
Yeah, look, it is actually working for them. As you say,
it's become a very mature market. And what they've done
is shifted everyone up. They didn't even release a base
model this time. They'll probably do that next year. But
they just want everyone to go into the, quote, pro
category straight away. The saving grace is, as you said,

(52:39):
we're holding onto phones much longer now. So my advice
is don't go out and pre-order this. Actually hold onto
the phone that you do have. And when you do
need to upgrade, if you can get a deal with
one of your mobile phone operators, there are phone dollars,
there are things out there, do everything you can to
reduce the overall cost of that. And by the middle

(52:59):
of next year, that Duo will cost maybe $ 3, 500.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
Now, what about the fact that it flips and you
get a bigger screen? Is that cool?

Speaker 2 (53:09):
It is cool.

Speaker 8 (53:09):
I've got one myself. I'm using Samsung's version of it.
It's passport-sized.

Speaker 6 (53:15):
And I think.

Speaker 8 (53:16):
This is a smart move because the first few generations
of foldable phones was basically just two phones squeezed together,
and it's still a little bit clunky. But the passport-sized one,
which the industry seems to be going towards... It's very
much like a little book that you flip out of
your pocket. It's easier to put in your pocket and
that sort of thing. So I think they're smart in

(53:37):
going that direction. And this green real estate, once you
get used to it and start multitasking on it, is
actually a much more productive way of doing things.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
Yeah, interesting. Hey, Peter, thanks very much. Really appreciate your advice.
It's Peter Griffin, Business Desk Tech Journalist, 21 away from 6.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
The Huddle with New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty, a name
you can trust locally and globally.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
The Huddle with us this evening, Maurice Williamson, Auckland Councillor,
former National Party Minister, Katie Bradford, Senior Herald Correspondent.

Speaker 16 (54:03):
Hello, you two.

Speaker 12 (54:04):
Hi, you two.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
You buying yourself one of those, Maurice?

Speaker 6 (54:09):
I'd probably have to sell a kidney before I could
afford one of those damn things. Good Lord. Well, that's
a phone. I mean, there are some cars around you
can buy secondhand for that price.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
I pick you more as a $ 49 green underwear guy.
What do you think?

Speaker 6 (54:25):
No, I think you miscalculated that one.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
Do you know what?

Speaker 6 (54:29):
No.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Okay, you're right. Katie, you would look great in a
$ 66 Act hoodie. It's your colour.

Speaker 26 (54:35):
I thought you were going to accuse Marcia Williamson of
Toku Morgan type boxers behaviour going on there.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
Did you see this though, Katie? Have you seen the
list of weird merch? Is the weirdest merch not this?
That Rima Nakhle, who's with the National Party, is giving
out gambling chips with her face on it.

Speaker 26 (54:55):
Is that even allowed under the electoral rules?

Speaker 2 (54:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 12 (54:58):
What?

Speaker 26 (54:58):
Because there's such strict rules around gambling, I would have
thought that you weren't allowed to do that. I saw
someone on a community Facebook page complaining about Helen White,
the Mount Albert MP, giving out magnets because apparently it's
bad for the environment and people just throwing them out.
So it's a terrible idea. I mean, I think the
point is you need to put them on your fridge, obviously.
But if you don't want them, you're throwing them out

(55:19):
and it's just adding to our rubbish.

Speaker 6 (55:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (55:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 26 (55:22):
More rubbish for Auckland Council to collect.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
Morris, you seem outraged at the gamblers.

Speaker 6 (55:25):
I quite like the idea of that Tea Party Maori jacket.
What was it, $ 250? Yeah, that's right, mate.

Speaker 14 (55:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 22 (55:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Don't accuse.

Speaker 26 (55:32):
I quite like Wayne Brown's Auckland jacket.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Oh, I haven't seen it.

Speaker 26 (55:35):
And him and others wear. You know the shiny Auckland,
they've got a whole, I think Auckland Unlimited, Morris will know,
but Tataki Auckland, I think, have put them out. They're blue,
they're like bomber jackets and they say Auckland on them.

Speaker 12 (55:44):
I quite like them.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
Oh, yeah, like a.

Speaker 19 (55:45):
I don't know how much they go for.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Have you got one of those, Morris?

Speaker 6 (55:48):
No, I have not. I've seen them around, but I mean, look,
on a pension, I've got to think about what my
next meal's coming from.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
Did you get your winter energy payment, Horace?

Speaker 6 (55:58):
No, I did find out that Raewyn is getting it
paid into her account. I don't get to see it
at all, but she is getting it.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
I was worried about you. Do you think, Katie, that
Louise Upston should actually be the one fronting up about this?

Speaker 19 (56:10):
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 26 (56:12):
Look, this is, she was actually, I interviewed her on
the Ryan Bridge show yesterday morning over, ostensibly over the
international visitor levy tax stuff, but also about what's been
going on at MSD. She did not want to apologise
for the issue we saw earlier this week over the
food applications being declined. She didn't want to apologise over
these issues. I think She should be fronting up. Ministers

(56:35):
should front up in these situations, as awkward as it is.
You are the minister for a reason. You are responsible
at the end of the day for your department, particularly
in this case when it appears to be a legislative issue.
And I think there's a much wider issue around the
use of urgency. There's a reason. parliament has processes that
you go through. As boring as they might be, it's
actually good for democracy to go through the parliamentary processes

(56:57):
that we're supposed to do. And I think both Labour
and National have been guilty over recent years of an
overuse of urgency. I think there are situations, there are
bills where urgency makes sense. I remember, and I'm sure
Morris does, when you used to have to do them
after the budget because you were putting up an increase
in cigarettes, right, and you wanted to tax on cigarettes,
you needed to get that through before everyone else, everyone
went out and bought cartons of cigarettes. That makes sense.

(57:20):
I think in situations like this where you actually need
someone to read through the legislation possibly, properly look at
the possible harm it causes, have a select committee debate it,
that needs a really serious rethink heading into next term.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Morris, the Minister has blamed MSD and said they should
have spotted it earlier. But that feels rich because what
she's saying is I made a mistake and it's your
fault because you didn't see it earlier.

Speaker 6 (57:43):
Yeah, look, I 100% agree with what Katie just went through.
I think the use of urgency is dramatically overused when
it doesn't need to be. I actually think Parliament should
sit for more days than it sits in a year
to get through some of the work. But look, think
of the number of pieces of legislation that do go
to a select committee, and they get changed dramatically because
there's things wrong with them. They found fixes that needed

(58:06):
to be done. Just the other day, the move-on orders,
the select committee have said, no, make that 14, make
it 18 or whatever, and change that amount of money
in the fine to 1,000. So when you're going to
put something of this nature through, the fact they're banging
it through under urgency– just exposes yourself to enormous risks.
And the minister is the person that should be holding

(58:26):
the responsibility for that, not the poor old chief executive
who sounded to be really floundering when you were interviewing her.

Speaker 26 (58:33):
That on Parliament sits more day, you want to get
more legislation through, great, that's good. A government should be
doing that. Sit more often.

Speaker 18 (58:41):
Have more sitting weeks.

Speaker 26 (58:42):
I know they're big, long days, but that is what
you're there for. It's literally your job. So go ahead
and do it. And I think we have to remember
that these are people... These are pensioners. These are people
on really low incomes who lost a significant portion of
their income for a week. Sure, they got the money
back at the end of the day. That didn't help
them that week if they didn't have enough money for

(59:03):
groceries or they got penalties for not paying things. What
happens if you didn't pay off your bill and you
got you know, a late fee?

Speaker 12 (59:10):
Who's compensating them for that?

Speaker 6 (59:12):
Who couldn't spot that someone who'd qualified for National Super
at 65 wasn't going to stay qualified? No, quite right.
I mean, you don't go back to 63 in a
couple of years and then 59, although some people try
to pretend it.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Quite right.

Speaker 6 (59:25):
But you actually, once you've qualified for being a super annuitant,
you are one.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
Yeah, well, you know where they would have picked that up, Morris?
If they'd taken it through select committee and not rushed
it under urgency, because that's what Louise wanted to do.
We'll take a break. Come back shortly, quarter to.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
You're back with.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
The Huddle, Maurice Williamson and Katie Bradford. Now, Maurice, what
do you make of ACT's Waitangi Tribunal policy out today?

Speaker 6 (59:51):
I actually like it. I think the Waitangi Tribunal has
grown into a monster that it was never intended to.
It's now been hearing all sorts of claims and making
all sorts of pronouncements which are not its bailiwick. They
are areas that the government has should be making that
determination on. And I think they're coming very close towards
the end of all of the major treaty settlements. I

(01:00:12):
think Ngapuhi's probably one of the only ones left to
go in terms of size. Once that's over, I think
the Waitangi Tribunal has no reason for existence and needs
to go.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Why does the Waitangi Tribunal need to exist while historical
claims are being settled?

Speaker 6 (01:00:27):
Well, because they can give advice about parts of the
historical claims as to whether that's right or not. There's
got to be a lot of research into, because people
will make claims this was stolen or this wasn't compensated
for or this was our tribe and not that tribe.
And quite a lot of research has to go in
and obviously some adjudication needed or advice. But they're an
advisory role. They don't act like that. They act like

(01:00:51):
they're a second government agency. They're an advisory role only
and whatever they say is only for the government to
consider rather than to have to be bound by.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Katie?

Speaker 26 (01:01:01):
I think it's one of the policies that play to
Act Space. I think it's a policy they've had in
place anyway, and they've just added more details around it.
I think the key is that it needs to focus on,
for instance, trying to work with Ngapuhi on getting their
claims settled. That is a big issue up there. And
until that's settled, you cannot get rid of the Waitangi

(01:01:21):
Tribunal while that is still ongoing. There are still some
other ones, but as Mosh said, that is the big
one that needs to be settled.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
What is precluding us from getting rid of the Waitangi
Tribunal and just using private researchers? Katie?

Speaker 6 (01:01:35):
Nothing really, but I mean you're just replacing one with
the other and if they would have just fulfilled their role,
the correct role that they're there for, it's no big deal.
They can help, they can advise, they can do some
research and so on. What used to worry me, because
I got caught on the horns of some of these things,
was their advice about the electromagnetic spectrum that was sort
of that were discovered by Faraday and the fact that

(01:01:58):
these things floating through the ether called radio waves and
high frequency and ultra high and very high frequency, somehow
that should have been included in the Treaty of Waitangi
when it was signed in 1840.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Yes, somehow the geothermal activities made it in as well now.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
Same thing.

Speaker 16 (01:02:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
Katie, so Chippy says he's getting warmed up. And geez,
he's waited, hasn't he?

Speaker 26 (01:02:19):
Well, he needed to be warmed up months ago. I
do think it's interesting, this campaign. We're seeing New Zealand
First have always gone out to town halls. We've seen
ACT do a lot of those town halls. Paul Henry's
off around the country. Luxon's done, I think, Audrey Young
said 20 today for Luxon and one for Hipkins.

Speaker 6 (01:02:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 26 (01:02:38):
Has just got to show some energy and you need
to see it. He needs to be out in these halls.
He needs to be out getting some of that policy out.
There is now less than two months to go. This
should have been happening six months ago. Sometimes you get
this glimpse. Of Chris Hipkins, where he shows some of
that energy and shows some of the reason why he
wants to be there. But I don't see it that

(01:02:59):
often or hear it that often. And, you know, there
used to be a Chris Hipkins who would get fired
up in the House and he'd be quite funny and
quite good. And I just don't think the public see
that anymore. And so maybe we will over the next
couple of months, I think, as MPs. and candidates will
be desperately hoping they see that in the next couple
of months. He was quite fired up on the MSD.
I watched the stand-up this afternoon with him on this

(01:03:20):
MSD issue. That's good Labour territory, but that energy definitely
needs to rise for the next six, seven, eight weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
One of the questions that Audrey asked today in her
political newsletter, Morris, on The Herald, was whether Chippy and
Labour have left it too late, their run. What do
you think?

Speaker 6 (01:03:38):
I think they have, and I think one of the
things they've done really badly is every time there's been
a big issue that had a fiscal implication, it was, oh,
we can't give you an answer to that until the budget.
Now it's, we can't give you that until the pre-foo.
When the pre-foo's out, it's more than likely to be, well,
we can't do that until we're in government and we
can get a really good briefing from Treasury and and
know the details. I've seen a number of debates on

(01:04:00):
various clips on the web and so on where the
Labour candidate said, well, you'll just have to wait. We
haven't got a policy on that yet. For God's sake,
we're in September with an election at the beginning of November.
You have got to start having some answers on things.
The pre-foo doesn't come out until the 29th, I think,
of September. But in the end, people start making their decisions.
And if you look at some of the research, they

(01:04:21):
lock their views in quite early on. I've got a
distinct feeling this might be totally wrong, and you can
prove I was wrong later on. But I've got a
feeling that Labour's coming off the boil quite badly recently.
And that poll at 25 was where they'd been up
in the 30s and well into the 30s. They're now
sliding back. And I think that's because they haven't had
anything to offer of anything.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
I've said it as well on the show. I reckon
this is the start of it. This is the start
of the collapse and the fall. Hey, guys, thank you
so much. Morris Williamson, Katie Bradford, seven away from six.
Five away from six. Heather, why didn't the opposition pick
up this mistake in the law? Well, they didn't because

(01:05:04):
it was done under urgency. Nobody picked it up. But
they did pick up that there was something going on
in April, and I think they alerted the minister as well,
which actually comes back to the minister. Again, there's a question.
Labour wrote to her. It went to her office. Somebody
looked at it and didn't do anything with that information.
It could potentially have been picked up in April. Anyway,
four away from six. Peter Fitzsimons. Peter Fitzsimons has appeared

(01:05:25):
in court today in Australia in the Alan Jones case
because it turns out that years ago he spoke to
one of the former Jones staffers who complained of unwanted
touching and kissing, and he didn't do anything on that.
I don't think there's anything untoward there. He just didn't
write about it because he didn't feel it was his
kind of story, and he may have passed it on
to somebody else who did write about it. I'm not
entirely sure. He held no candle for Alan Jones whatsoever.

(01:05:46):
He wasn't looking after him. The interesting thing is Peter
turned up in court naked, like on the head. There
was no headscarf. He looked like a normal human being
for five minutes. Can I confirm that without the headscarf,
he does not look like Peter Fitzsimons? You'd walk past
him on the street and you wouldn't recognize him. Now,
this is one for parents of kindy kids out there.

(01:06:07):
There is a new Gruffalo book. You've waited a long
time for a new Gruffalo book. It's called Gruffalo Granny.
Did you realize the Gruffalo, the OG Gruffalo, was published
in 1999? And it was an enormous success. And what
makes it weird about the fact that it was an
enormous success is that Julia Donaldson didn't really write that
many other Gruffalo books. She only wrote another one, which

(01:06:28):
was The Gruffalo's Child, which came out five years later.
And apart from those two, that's it. Now we've got
The Gruffalo Granny. But it took her 27 years to
get around to it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
The story is that Granny is coming to visit and
has a huge appetite. So Gruffalo and Baby Gruffalo go
out and they hunt the mouse. They finally get the
mouse and they chuck the mouse in the cage. And
then the story is about how the mouse gets out
of the cage, outwits them. Tell me about her, Daddy Do.
Will she be just like me and you? Julia Donaldson.

(01:06:57):
Absolute legend. So put that on. I mean, you can
get it for the kids for Christmas, can't you?

Speaker 12 (01:07:01):
Chuck that on.

Speaker 21 (01:07:01):
Gruffalo was such a big part of my childhood. I
love that stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
Such a disgusting wart on his back, neck. What's this called?

Speaker 6 (01:07:09):
Nose.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
Lord, I'm sick. I can't even identify parts of my body. Anyway,
Kmart's layout, the new one. We're going to deal with
that next.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Where business meets insight.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
The Business Hour with Heather Dutlessy-Allen and Mazz Insurance and Investments.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Your futures in good hands. News Talk ZB. Evening.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Coming up in the next hour, Sam Dickey on what
he makes of that anthropic researcher quitting with the warning
that they're gambling with our lives. That's after half past six.
Jamie Mackay on all things rural and Enda Brady out
of the UK. It's seven past six right now. Now,
New Zealand's biggest Kmart has opened its doors today. This
is the first Kmart as well in the country with
the new design layout from the start. The big change

(01:07:53):
is that your checkout will no longer be in the
middle of the store, but instead closer to the entrance.
Chris Wilkinson is with First Retail Group and with us now. Hi, Chris.

Speaker 12 (01:08:02):
Hey, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
I'm very well, thank you. I keep getting told that
you're fizzing for this. Are you?

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
I'm fine.

Speaker 13 (01:08:07):
Yes, I'm fizzing.

Speaker 7 (01:08:08):
Absolutely.

Speaker 13 (01:08:09):
I love Kmart.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
Why do you love Kmart, Chris?

Speaker 13 (01:08:12):
Oh, look, I think Kmart's a phenomenon. It's great to
see really just how they've captured consumers' imagination, how well
they've done on the world stage in a very tough market.
It's not my favourite store, but I just love what
they're doing and how they are innovating.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
Yeah, and I tell you what, I buy a lot
of Kmart stuff online for the kids. It's a really
easy-to-use system. They are doing well. Now, talk to me
about the layout. Does it not make absolute sense to
put the checkouts at the front rather than the middle?

Speaker 13 (01:08:45):
Yeah, it does. Around 10 years ago, they evolved to
that format where they dragged the checkouts to the middle.
It worked well at the time, but retail has evolved
since significantly.

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
Why did it work well?

Speaker 13 (01:09:01):
It drew people further through into the store. So what
would happen is that people would make those sort of
point-to-point destinations before, but this encouraged them to dwell longer,
and that dwell time is a key aspect for retail.
Getting people to spend longer and engage with the product
in the store is really very, very important.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
Is having the checkouts in the middle, though, not basically...
opening up the chance that somebody buys a whole bunch
of stuff and then on their way out they're passing
some T-shirts and they get a little five-finger discount.

Speaker 13 (01:09:35):
That's exactly what's happening. And, you know, in the last
10 years since that shift happened, we've seen quite a
significant change in retail theft, but also antisocial behaviour that's
happening in retail, which we never used to see on
the level we're seeing now.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
Now, they are moving the beauty stuff to the front
of the store. Does that suggest that it's a big
selling item for them?

Speaker 13 (01:10:00):
Beauty is a key category item for many retailers because
it's the kind of product you go back to every month.
You don't necessarily need to go and buy a new
shirt or new cups or saucers every month, but beauty
is one of those things that has that regular and
habitual draw, which is why so many retailers want to

(01:10:22):
be part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Now, what do you make of the placement in Westgate?
Is this going to draw people away from Sylvia Park?

Speaker 13 (01:10:30):
No, I don't think so. The reality is Sylvia Park
has its own draw. It's got a lot of very
unique retailers that are there. At the end of the day,
the Kmart product is the Kmart product. It's the same
whether you're buying it in Ashburton or you're buying it
in Sylvia Park or Westgate. Interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
Hey, thank you very much, Chris. I really appreciate your
time and enjoy visiting the Kmart when you get around
to it. That's Chris Wilkinson, first retail group managing director.
Update on Breenwith. Three of the independent directors have now resigned,
Trevor Burt, Julie Bonin and Murray Dyer. This is following
the rejection of the Godfrey Hearst deal, which obviously happened
this week. Was it this week? I think it was. Anyway,

(01:11:13):
the reason that they're quitting basically is because the board
backed the Godfrey Hearst deal. And so they now say
it's appropriate to step down and allow the board to
transition for Bremworth's new phase, which is a deal with
somebody else altogether. Let me give you the numbers. NZX
50 is down about three quarters of a percentage point today,
so 0.78%. ASX 50 is down 1.27% so far today.
A barrel of Brent crude is now costing you 96
US dollars. That is up from yesterday. And by the way,

(01:11:40):
the warning from Goldman Sachs is that we're headed for
120 a barrel. One New Zealand dollar is worth 58
US cents, 81 Australian cents, 50 euro cents, 43 UK
pence and 90 yen. It's 11 past six. Jamie Mackay
is with us next. Now, business owners are always looking
for smarter ways to manage spending. And the American Express
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(01:12:01):
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(01:12:23):
supplier payments through to day-to-day purchases, it can be a
very simple way to put business spending to work. Card
members can also enjoy a range of business-focused benefits designed
to support spending, payments, and business growth. Now, to learn
more about the American Express Gold Rewards Business Card and
its range of business benefits, search Amex Business. The offer
ends 14 December 2026, $ 1, 500 minimum spend in the first

(01:12:47):
three months. New Amex Card members only. Membership rewards, T's
and C's, and thresholds apply. Heather, it's a little bit
rich for Chris Hipkins to be criticising Upston. How about
he front up about his inability to never say sorry
for his fails? Look, this is a fair point. It
is a fair point. I still think Upston is the
one responsible for this. But Chippy is in no position

(01:13:09):
to criticize her because Chippy has done a bunch of
stuff he doesn't want to say sorry for. And this
is the problem with taking Chippy to the election as
the leader because we go back way too far with
Chippy now, eh? We've been through too much stuff with Chippy.
There's been a lot of water under this bridge with Chippy.
So when we see him being all weird and criticizing
people for the stuff that he does, yeah, don't really fly,

(01:13:30):
does it? Glass houses, et cetera. 616.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
Rural Report on Heather Duplessy-Allen Drive.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
And with us now, we have the host of the country,
Jamie Mackay. Hello, Jamie.

Speaker 6 (01:13:41):
G'day, Heather.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
What's going on with the red meat?

Speaker 12 (01:13:44):
Well, earlier this week, Beef and Lamb New Zealand came
out with its new season outlook for the new season,
which we've just started. In fact, the farmers are out
there lambing and calving as we speak. So this is
for the 2026-27 season. What they're saying is they can
expect to see continued strong meat or red meat returns,

(01:14:05):
but the margins are likely to tighten. And there's a
couple of reasons, or there are some factors coming into
play here. The New Zealand dollar, and I'll talk about
that a wee bit later, is likely to strengthen against
the US dollar. And we've also got obviously the risk
of a very dry El Nino spring summer coming up.

Speaker 6 (01:14:25):
Now, Average farm.

Speaker 12 (01:14:26):
Gate prices are expected, as I said, to soften slightly,
but these are off historical highs. Lamb prices expected to
decrease 8%. Beef prices down 4.5%. And on top of that,
farm expenditure is expected to be up 4.2%. So your
average farmer, your average sheep and beef farmer out there, Heather,

(01:14:49):
can expect a farm profit before tax to average $ 267, 000
And while that sounds a lot, it is down 20%
on the season we've just finished, which was a record
average of $ 335, 000. Now, just before you go, $ 267, 000 is a.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Hell of a lot of money.

Speaker 12 (01:15:08):
Remember, from that, the farmer has to pay tax, depreciation,
own drawings so they can live, and also any capital purchases.
And it's very easy to spend, for instance, either $ 267, 000.

Speaker 6 (01:15:23):
On a tractor.

Speaker 12 (01:15:24):
So look, things are good, but it's not going to
be quite as good as they were last year.

Speaker 3 (01:15:28):
Also, Jamie, if you think about the value of the
land that they're often sitting on, that profit's actually quite small,
isn't it, when you think about it like that?

Speaker 19 (01:15:37):
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:15:38):
Look, for sheep and beef farmers especially, the likes of dairy,
kiwifruit especially, you're going to get a better return on
your equity. But yeah, look, historically, Heather, sheep farmers might
have got 2% return on investment if you were really being.
Hard-assed about it. You would say, well, I'll just sell
the farm and put my money in the bank at 5%

(01:15:58):
or 6%. And I'm talking historic averages there. So no,
it's not a fantastic return. I guess you have capital gain,
but a lot of that's gone out of farming in
recent years as well. So for many of them, it's
a lifestyle. But to be fair, the sheep farmers have
had a really good season. They're looking towards another positive

(01:16:19):
one So they need to take it. They've got a
lot of catching up to do.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
Yeah, too right. And what has Rabobank had to say?

Speaker 12 (01:16:25):
Well, Rabobank, this was another one from earlier in the
week I didn't get to on Tuesday evening. And so
they come out with an agribusiness monthly report, obviously every month.
So September says... You know, you can split it in two.
You can look at the commodity outlooks, dairy, beef, sheep, meat,
down a bit, all of them, but still looking really positive.

(01:16:46):
The problem for farmers and the problem for business people
is the input side, the cost side of the ledger.
Farm inputs, obviously, with fertiliser and fuel, with the Middle
East escalation, what is happening? Brent crude's at $ 96 a
barrel at the moment. So that's something that's really hitting

(01:17:07):
farmers quite hard, especially the fertilizer. And the other one
is interest rates and foreign exchange. So I talked about
a strengthening dollar. We're at about 59 US cents last
time I had a look. Rabobank saying we can expect
that to go to 61 cents in the next 12 months.
We can still live with that, but it takes a
bit of the edge off. And the other one is

(01:17:28):
obviously which affects all of us, interest rates, Rabobank, the
chief economist, being picked and saying, we can expect another
couple of increases in the official cash rate. And they're
reckoning it's going to be at 3.25% by Q1 next year.

Speaker 3 (01:17:45):
Yeah, interesting. Hey, thank you, Jamie. Always good to talk
to you. We'll talk to you again next week as
Jamie Mackay, host of The Country. August, hottest month ever. Joint, joint.
Ties with July 2023. So three years ago, almost the
same month. Well, when they say hottest, they're obviously recording
the Northern Hemisphere, aren't they? So it's hot there. But
it was a pretty warm winter for us over here. Anyway,

(01:18:06):
so August 2026 ties with July 2023, both of which
were globally at 1.65 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. So, yeah,
it's warming up, isn't it? Heather, I've been watching three
news tonight, just seeing the Insipiduo have reunited. Chris Hipkins
and Michael Wood.

Speaker 14 (01:18:27):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:27):
So I was reading something today and I can't remember
what it was, but I wonder if it was Audrey's bit.
I think it might've been Audrey's piece, but I don't
want to just check before we attribute it to Audrey.
But whoever it was mentioned that blah, blah, blah is
going to happen. And then after the election, Michael Wood
will become the leader. And I thought, wow. Oh, how

(01:18:48):
about setting yourself up to lose the election in 2029, eh?
Michael Wood. What is Michael Wood famous for, eh? Do
you remember what he's famous for? Not actually the airport
shares debacle. It's the bloody Birkenhead Bridge. It's the boomer's
bike bridge to Birkenhead. That was his idea. That, plus
also exhausting every shop's hair gel in his electorate. I

(01:19:09):
don't think it's an electable leader, but, you know, if
they want to give it a hone, whatever. 6.21.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
It's the Heather Dupercy-Allen Drive full show podcast on.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
iHeartRadio, powered by Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Crunching the numbers and getting the results. It's Heather Dupercy-Allen
on the Business Hour with Maz Insurance and Investments, your
futures in good hands.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
Heather, it has been freezing cold in Rotorua this winter,
coldest day on record. Beginning August. It's been very dry
in Auckland, which is not something you could say every winter.
The Americans are going absolutely nuts in all the big
Facebook groups about Trump's $ 5, 000 payment to citizens if he
wins the midterms. Sounds like he might pull it off. Ben,
thank you for pointing... I'm meaning to talk about this.

(01:19:56):
So Trump has turned up at the convention, the GOP convention,
and he's promised that if they win the midterms, he's
going to pay every American adult $ 5, 000, which is money
that has to be spent within America.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
Now....

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
If you looked at that and went, whew, that sounds unlawful,
you'd be about right, because it is unlawful in most democracies,
I would say, although I am taking a punt, but
it just does seem like most democracies would have this rule,
certainly ours do, to financially incentivise somebody to vote for
something or some party. However, there's actually debate about whether
it's unlawful or not, because it could just be a

(01:20:31):
broad policy thing, right? It could just be akin to
Helen Clark going out there and saying, we're going to
wipe the interest on the student debt. It's kind of,
it could be construed in the same way. It could
be put into the same category. Anyway, I mean, like
classic Trump, eh? He takes a political, he takes pork barreling,
and then he just rips the lid off it and
makes it super transparent. So he is just transparently saying,

(01:20:53):
pork barreling, which is just kind of outrageous, but also
refreshing in its honesty. But also, the other thing that
happened for Trump is that on his way to Texas,
when he landed in Texas, plane landed, he's on the
Qatari plane, plane landed, the emergency slide was inflated. And
they had to wait inside the plane for 20 minutes
for the thing to be sorted out. And then when
he was asked why the emergency slide come down, he said, oh,

(01:21:15):
military just want to make sure everything works perfectly. Source
within the military said they did it accidentally. 626.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
There's no business like show business.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
So it is entirely possible that Mark Zuckerberg has started
a feud between himself and the fans of this band, Muse,
over the Instagram handle. Meta has just announced their brand
new AI personal assistant. It's called Muse. The band is
called Muse. The band has the Instagram handle Muse, which

(01:21:48):
they had for nearly 15 years. They've got 3 million followers.
When Meta decides it wants to launch a new product
called Muse, what do you think they want? They want AtMuse,
don't they? So a couple of months ago, fans noticed
that the band changed their handle to AtMuseMusic. Chuck the
old music on the end of it. Put the pieces
together today that Meta was using the handle for something
else and the fans were not happy. The r slash

(01:22:11):
Muse subreddit was filled with posts accusing Meta of stealing
the handle, while others accused the band of being sellouts.
But the band haven't commented. on what sparked the name change. Also,
they changed their handle on Exodus Twitter. So let's be
honest about it. Like we can say this now, can't we?
They probably made a deal and got some money for it.
And you can make really good money from an Instagram handle.

(01:22:32):
Crypto company Exodus purchased a handle in 2021 for $ 100, 000.
The handle at Holy sold, like as in God, Holy,
sold for $.

Speaker 9 (01:22:42):
115, 000.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
So if you were offered a hundy thou for your handle,
you'd take it, wouldn't you? Wouldn't you? Good on you, Muse,
thinking about the money. Sam Dickey's with us next on
this warning that AI is going to kill us all.
Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
Whether it's macro, micro, or just plain economics, it's all
on The Business Hour with Heather Dupacy-Allen and Maz Insurance
and Investments.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
Your futures in good hands. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 3 (01:23:17):
Oh yes, I forgot about that. Michael Woods was the
one who used River of Filth. So yeah, great. Huge
amount of fans out there. Huge number of fans. A
little update for you on that petition supporting the Stockton
mine on the West Coast. They reckon now that half
of Westport has signed it. They said they've got 3,500 signatories,
which is equal to 50.5% of the Westport residents aged
16 and over. There you go. Enda Brady out of

(01:23:40):
the UK with us in 10 minutes time. It's 24
away from 7. Now, as you well know, an anthropic
researcher has quit, saying the industry is gambling with our lives.
This comes just a few weeks after Sam Dickey from
Fisher Funds talked about the AI safety and research company
and what could be the biggest initial public offering in history.
And Sam is back with us.

Speaker 12 (01:23:58):
Hi, Sam.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
Good evening, Heather.

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
So what has actually happened here?

Speaker 11 (01:24:03):
Well, this one really went viral, but many high-profile AI
executives have been sounding the alarm saying, And we talked
about Dario himself, who's the founder of Anthropic, when you
and I talked three weeks ago, was talking about the
risks of his product. But Jacob Coxon just resigned from
Anthropic after three years working at both Anthropic and OpenAI.

(01:24:24):
And he said these leading edge AI companies are racing
to build increasingly powerful systems before they know how to
make them completely safe. And then what the real twist
there was, Evan, who is still employed at Anthropic, publicly
backed him, putting the chance of AI killing all humans
within the next decade or At around 10%, which sounds
really scary, but there's a couple of important qualifications there.

(01:24:45):
The first one is, he also says the risk from
today's AI is low. Everyone can tap the brakes if
they want, but they're worried the other one won't. So
it's that prisoner's dilemma. So everyone has their foot to
the floor, flat out race.

Speaker 3 (01:25:00):
Okay, so what is it that they're actually worried is
going to happen?

Speaker 11 (01:25:04):
Well, it's not a robot suddenly deciding to take over Auckland.
The fear is AI is improving AI, so recursive self-improvement.
So one generation of AI helping build the next and
the next until the machines are improving faster than humans
can keep up. We are not there today. But there
has been some recent incidents that have created a bit

(01:25:25):
of hysteria, the Hugging Face hacking incident, for example. And
it's revealing something more mundane, actually. AI models being tested
in supposedly sealed environments have accessed real-world systems because of
a simple setup error. So that's not a machine plotting
its escape. And it's just humans that got the safety
barrier wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
So what may be.

Speaker 11 (01:25:46):
More useful as a warning to us and to AI
users model manufacturers is we're building increasingly powerful technology increasingly quickly,
and the models become more capable. The blast radius of
a simple human mistake is significantly larger. So for us,
we just need to be aware of what data you
want AI models to access.

Speaker 7 (01:26:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
Now, this is obviously a really bold claim. So what's
the counter argument?

Speaker 11 (01:26:11):
Well, the strong counter argument is, and we talked about
this a couple of weeks ago, is You know, with
founder Dario and many people within Anthropic themselves, they spend
an awful amount of time warning us about their own product.
And if you think about it, it's called regulatory capture, arguably.
So if governments believe AI could be extraordinarily dangerous, they
regulate it. And regulation, of course, is much easier for

(01:26:34):
a company with hundreds of billions of dollars to absorb
than a new competitor. So it really shuts out smaller competitors.
That's why it's called regulatory capture. So the fear itself
can become a competitive advantage. But here's the twist. The
fear can be sincere and commercially useful. Those aren't contradictory.
So remember, Anthropic itself built a model called Mythos, and
they said it's too powerful for you guys. But that

(01:26:56):
was a wonderful marketing campaign as well.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
Now, what does this mean for investors, do you.

Speaker 6 (01:27:02):
Think, Sam?

Speaker 11 (01:27:04):
I don't think we need to be frightened of our
phone quite yet. But I think the better question is
for all of us is how much freedom should we
give increasingly powerful AI and who gets to decide that?
So if you listen to Dario from Anthropic and then
some of the more overzealous Anthropicas, they think they're the
only company on earth that has got the God-given talent

(01:27:25):
and right to control this beast that they're creating. So
for investors, we should probably watch three things. How fast
the technology improves, particularly that recursive self-improvement where AI is
building AI at a faster pace, how governments respond, because
when this fear-mongering gets viral, you can imagine that governments
might do some silly things, and whether these companies themselves

(01:27:47):
can prove they can make it safe enough to trust.

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
Yeah, very good point. Hey, thank you very much, Sam.
Really appreciate it, as always. We'll talk to you next week.
Sam Dickey, official funds 20 away from seven. Speaking of AI,
newsroom.co.nz is carrying quite an interesting story about how the
supermarkets are using AI. Apparently, they're using it to reduce waste.
So they've got a system which uses an algorithm to
figure out what the optimum price is to price something at,

(01:28:15):
based on how close it is to its expiration date.
So you're going to pay full price if something is
not going to expire. I'm talking like dairy and meat here.
You're going to pay full price if it's not going
to expire soon. But if it is going to expire soon,
you're not going to pay full price, are you? Because
you're going to see, oh, that's expiring tomorrow. So you
dig through and you find the piece of rump steak
that's going to last for a week or whatever it is.
So what it does, and because there's so many items

(01:28:37):
in a supermarket, just so much stuff. it's really hard
for them to keep track of when things are expiring
and when the pricing's down and blah, blah, blah. So
the AI does it all for them. And it's like
this particular, these particular line items are about to expire.
You haven't sold them yet. You need to price them down.
This is the price that you need to price them at. But,
and so this is wonderful, right? Because this is what
we want. We don't want to waste food. We don't

(01:29:00):
want to throw food out the whole time. That is silly.
It is silly from a waste perspective. It is silly
from a, you know, a cost perspective. If somebody can
buy something that's about to go off and pay three
quarters of the price for it, that's good for them
as well. Here's the problem that you haven't thought of though.
Food banks. Because there are food banks out there that
rely on the supermarkets coming by and going, this is

(01:29:21):
all the stuff that we can't sell. It's going to
go off in a couple of days, or it's gone
off or whatever, and they give it to people and
cook it up or whatever. Now they don't have it.
So it's one of those ones where we solve one problem,
but we're going to create another problem, aren't we? And
speaking of food, the Commerce Commission... is I don't know
if it's going to give the green light to two
of these fruit and vegetable wholesalers that want to merge.

(01:29:43):
So I don't know if you're aware of it, but
there's not a lot going on in the wholesale business
there with fruit and veggies. We've only got three wholesalers,
J & P Turner, Turners and Growers Fresh, and MG
Fresh Produce Group. Now the first two, J & P
Turner want to merge. J & P Turner wants to
buy Turners and Growers Fresh. And the Comcom today has
put out like a little bit of a preliminary finding

(01:30:03):
type thing. It says it's not convinced. that this is
going to be good for competition. Looks like it could
well lessen competition substantially. If that is the ultimate finding,
they're not going to say yes to it. Submissions close
23 September, so there's a couple of weeks yet, and
they're going to make a decision the 5th of November,
so we'll see how it goes. You know how I
was telling you about the zoo the other day in Wellington,
the lions, and the fact that they need some digs

(01:30:25):
of $ 14 million. I don't know about you, but I
make do with a much less, like there are five,
four of us in a property worth less than that.
So for two lions to be in a $ 14 million property,
that's a lot of money, isn't it? When you think
about it. Anyway, so Wellington City Council is going to
have to find money for that. They're also now going
to have to find some money potentially for floodlights at

(01:30:47):
the Basin Reserve because the International Cricket Council could soon
insist that test cricket grounds have floodlights. So that's a
problem in there. But it's good. It's okay. It's absolutely fine.
Don't worry about it because I don't know if you're
aware of it. Wellington City Council has got lots of money,
heaps of money, nothing to spend it on. All the
pipes are fixed. There is no poo in the harbour.

(01:31:07):
And the rate payers have not had a rate increase
in ages. So that'll be fine, eh? Sarcasm, by the way.
They're absolutely stuffed. Don't know how they're going to pay
for the floodlights. 17 away from 7.

Speaker 1 (01:31:27):
Everything from SMEs to the big corporates. The Business Hour
with Heather Duplessy-Allen and Mass Insurance and Investments. Your futures
in good hands. Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
Heather, AI could solve complex physics and mathematics problems and
then use it as a bargaining chip against the humans. Actually,
it did solve a really complex maths problem just the
other day, if not in the last 24 hours or something.
It's come to light. Something that mathematicians have been working
on for years and it's just managed to do it
just like that. The only problem is what's it bargaining for? Cool,
you could do some maths. What do you want in exchange?

(01:31:59):
It doesn't want money. It's not going to buy anything.
Maybe it would want, I don't know, to safeguard its
own existence. It's all very Terminator, isn't it? 13 away
from 7. Ender Brady, UK correspondence with us. Hello, Ender.

Speaker 23 (01:32:13):
Heather, lovely to chat again.

Speaker 3 (01:32:14):
Now, do you think this air traffic control boss is
going to quit?

Speaker 23 (01:32:19):
I think he's toast. There's three million good reasons why
he won't want to go. And that's what he earned
last year, three million dollars, including bonuses. Martin Rolfe is
his name. And it's happened again. So he promised the
last time that there would be no more glitches, no
more meltdowns and no more people sleeping in airport terminals
across the UK. And it's happened again this week. The

(01:32:39):
third meltdown or glitch in three years. The end result
is this is costing airlines tens of millions of dollars.
They want him to go. They're very angry. And the
passengers are even more angry because they've just found out
there won't be any compensation for this. So we've seen
2,000 flights cancelled in a couple of days in the UK,
affecting one third of a million passengers with the knock-on

(01:33:02):
effects as well. I think Martin Rolfe probably will go today.

Speaker 3 (01:33:06):
Ultimately, whose call is it? Who's the person who tells them, right,
your time's up, off you go?

Speaker 23 (01:33:12):
I would say the Prime Minister will have had a
conversation with the Transport Secretary, Heidi Alexander. She spoke to
Martin Rolfe yesterday, and I would imagine they've spelled it
out to him. It just isn't good enough. I mean, Britain, yes,
there are problems, but we need to be investing more
in the infrastructure. And you're just wondering, you know, they're
saying this wasn't a cyber attack, but who's behind it?

(01:33:32):
Why does it keep happening? And it just makes the
country look so bad.

Speaker 3 (01:33:36):
Yeah, it's a fair point you make, actually. Right, so
is Nigel Farage going to have to face the detectives,
do you think?

Speaker 23 (01:33:43):
The newspapers reckon this new police investigation into alleged foreign
donations being solicited by Reform UK, which Farage was caught
on camera by this undercover sting by Channel 4 broadcast
at last Friday night. Two of his senior aides are gone.
Farage says he wasn't even paying attention to the conversation.
Reform say it's a hoax. It's funded by foreign-funded climate activists.

(01:34:08):
and that this is yet another example of the establishment
trying to stop reform getting into government. However, the Metropolitan
Police take a different view. There are very, very strict
rules about who can donate to political parties in the
United Kingdom. Basically, you need to be British and you
need to be living here. And it would appear that
all this kind of skirting the rules, chatting around the rules,

(01:34:29):
the police.

Speaker 2 (01:34:30):
Don't like it.

Speaker 23 (01:34:30):
So there is an investigation which will run, obviously, in
tandem to the parliamentary watchdog looking at Farage and all
the money from his crypto billionaire mates. You just wonder,
does it pass the whiff test when people are talking
about this down the pub?

Speaker 12 (01:34:46):
Yeah, too right.

Speaker 3 (01:34:47):
Now, listen, what happened with the young Pakistani cricket guys?

Speaker 23 (01:34:52):
This is a story that I just cannot believe I'm
about to tell you because it's so embarrassing for this country. Pakistan,
under 19 national cricketers, the best young cricketers around, are
touring England right now, playing England in a test series.
They've been playing in Sussex and their hotel is the
Marriott in Portsmouth, where a group of young Pakistani men

(01:35:16):
were seen getting off a bus the other day. Word
went round on all these chat groups that migrants and
asylum seekers had been brought ashore and a mob of
about 60 men turned up. A Reform UK local councillor
went into the hotel and demanded answers from the manager,
and the manager produced documentation to show him that they

(01:35:37):
are in fact the Pakistan under-19 national cricket team playing England.

Speaker 6 (01:35:41):
And they should be welcomed here.

Speaker 23 (01:35:43):
At that point, the pitchfork mob outside finally, I would
imagine very disappointingly, dispersed. So that is where we are
in England right now, that a touring, professional, top-class cricket
team is mistaken for dinghy migrants coming across from France.
And Heather, the thing that astonishes me is These fine

(01:36:04):
young men will have got off that bus dressed in
identical Pakistan cricket kits, many of them carrying cricket bats.
Go figure.

Speaker 3 (01:36:12):
Yeah, very good point you make, Enda. Enda Brady, thanks, mate.
UK correspondent. Listen, question for you. Do you think zero
alcohol beer is.
Like a thing thing? Do you know what I mean?
Like it's clearly a thing at the moment. It's clearly
a thing at the moment. But is this going to
be a thing thing thing that goes on forever? The

(01:36:32):
reason I'm asking is because DB Breweries has just announced
it's going to install the zero alcohol beers in taps
at 300 venues around the country. That is a significant outlay, right?
So they obviously believe that zero alcohol is a thing
that we are going to be turning up at the
pub and asking for forever. But I am– And I

(01:36:53):
say this as somebody who does occasionally have a zero.
I don't know. Does it not have the same kind
of vibe about it as like meatless meat? You know,
when the Impossible Burger was like bopping and everybody was
going to, and all these celebrities piled all this money
into investing into these companies that were going to produce
something that was supposed to be like something, but not
that thing. And I always think that's a problem. I

(01:37:15):
always think if you're going I'm producing meat, but it's
not actually meat. There's a problem. Well, I want meat.
I'm eating meat for the sake of meat. I'm not
eating meat. So it's, you know, what? And it's the
same thing, not true of alcohol. You're going, this is alcohol,
but it's not alcohol. That's okay for when you're pregnant or,
you know, I don't know. I think it's a phase.

(01:37:36):
I think it's a phase. But the truth is, if
you're going out and you're drinking zero beers, you're only
going to do it for a bit. And then you're
just going to be like, actually, do you know what? No,
I don't want to go to the pub anymore. And
so it's just like, it's like a transition phase. And
all those people who are buying zero beers at the
moment at the pub are in about five or 10 years,
just not going to go to the pub at all.
And they're going to have those little stands there doing nothing.
Don't you think?

Speaker 6 (01:37:55):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:37:56):
I could be wrong. Right away from seven. Heather, you're
wrong about zero beer. Once you get used to it,
there's no going back. Delicious.

Speaker 26 (01:38:04):
What is wrong with you?

Speaker 3 (01:38:05):
I mean, look, I don't mind a zero beer, but
you cannot. It's 95% a beer. At best, it's 98%
a beer. But it's still missing that little thing, isn't it?
That little beer thing that's usually caused by the hops.
So you can't tell me that. You cannot tell me
that you enjoy it more than an actual beer. That's
like saying you enjoy a Diet Coke more than an
actual Coke. That's always a lie, isn't it? Hey, this

(01:38:28):
is Cool News for Wellington. I'm Gin thrilled for Wellington
about this. City Fitness has just signed on as the
anchor tenant for the Reading Cinema site in Courtney Place. Now,
I can't remember exactly But I think that that Courtney Place,
that Reading Cinema Complex has been shut since about 2018.
Hasn't it? Like it's eight or nine years now. It's

(01:38:49):
a really, really long time where it's just been sitting
there like decaying and feeling gloomy in the middle of
Courtney Place. So the fact that they're going to have
City Fitness there is really cool. Reading Cinema is also
coming back. They're going to have a more premium cinema
experience with the full recliner seating and you can order
the food and the drink while you're sitting in there
and they'll bring it in to you. Now, the reason

(01:39:09):
I love this is because this means that they are
going to have a lot of foot traffic. Early in
the morning with the people hitting the gym, in the
evening with the people hitting the gym, all through the day.
And foot traffic is going to make that part of
town busy and feel safer. And it's just wonderful. Just
wonderful for Courtney Place.

Speaker 23 (01:39:26):
Lock.

Speaker 21 (01:39:29):
What do we think of Oasis?

Speaker 3 (01:39:31):
We like Oasis.

Speaker 4 (01:39:32):
Everybody loves Oasis.

Speaker 21 (01:39:33):
If you have a good taste in music, then you
should be going to Disney Plus or the Cinemark To
catch Oasis, Don't Look.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
Back in Anger.

Speaker 21 (01:39:41):
Now, this is obviously the name of the song, and
it's a documentary about the brothers' reunion and their reunion tour.

Speaker 3 (01:39:46):
Ah, the one that we've just had.

Speaker 21 (01:39:49):
Yeah, the latest one.

Speaker 3 (01:39:50):
Is there any tea in there? There's a little bit.

Speaker 21 (01:39:53):
There's some very good behind-the-scenes of when they were going
to do their first show, which I believe was in Cardiff, apparently.
Liam turned up maybe 20 minutes before it started, skipped
all the rehearsals, threw his bag down and said, right,
should we do this?

Speaker 3 (01:40:06):
Oh, classic.

Speaker 17 (01:40:07):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:40:07):
And Noel would have just been absolutely hoping that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:09):
And Noel was furious.

Speaker 21 (01:40:10):
I have to paraphrase because the language that Noel used,
I cannot repeat that.

Speaker 3 (01:40:14):
I hear you. I might go watch that, actually, but
I have to pay for it on Disney +, don't I?
So I'll think about that. I'll think about it long
and hard because I've got to buy the Gruffalo Granny first,
don't I? Have a lovely evening. See you tomorrow, hopefully.

Speaker 15 (01:40:25):
Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 1 (01:40:56):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talk ZB from 4 p.m. weekdays or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.

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