Full Show Podcast: 20 May 2026

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The only drive show you can trust truck to ask
the questions, you get the answers, find a fact sack
and give the analysis. Heather Duplicy ellend Drive with One
New Zealand and the Power of Satellite Mobile NEWSGS There be.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Afternoon, Welcome to the show. Coming up today. David Seymour
on the two hundred and seventy different regulators we have
in this country and how many we should whittle that
down to christ Church Airport on the three new International
and New Zealand flights in. Greg Smith of Generators going
to talk us through Infertel's big sell off of Contact Energy.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Heather Duplicy, Ellen, I've got to.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Tell you something. I'm embarrassed a watching this public debate
about how many public servant jobs are going to be
cut in order to make way for AI is just embarrassing.
The fact that we're having this debate at all is
actually ultimately Nikola Willis's fault, because she listed three expectations
when she announced the reform of the public service. One
that agency's amalgamate to that there is a cap of
fifty five thousand people in the public sector, and three

(00:59):
that the public sector digitizers and adopts AI, and because
AI is the new bogeyman that everybody should be afraid of,
the media then became obsessed with the AI and started
contacting ministers' offices and demanding to know what we're actually
meant to do with the AI. And then the verdict
was that many ministers weren't actually sure what they would
be doing in their portfolios. And it is embarrassing in

(01:20):
the same way that it's embarrassing watching your parents or
your grandparents discuss that new fangled technology that's absolutely going
to change our lives with no real grip on its
uses and limitations because they don't actually use it. It
feels like blaming the public Servant's cull in the nineteen
eighties on those new computer devices that we're going to
replace all the workers, except we're all still working. We're
just each using a computer device. Let's be honest about AI. Okay,

(01:43):
for those of us who don't use it out there
and go, what is this? AI is probably hugely over promising.
It probably is not going to do all the things
and replace all the workers that you think it will.
At the moment, it is just really good, mostly for
summarizing drafting searching documents, handling repetitive admin, and handling customer service.
There are some really obvious applications for AI, like helping

(02:06):
a beneficiary find all their entitlements by going through an
AI kind of system on the computer without having to
tie up a person on the phone for an hour.
But AI cannot really be relied on for more complex
tasks that you need humans for, like risk assessment or
ethical judgments or political management. No one who actually uses
AI thinks it's going to replace eight thousand, seven hundred jobs,

(02:31):
or even a quarter of those jobs, or even a
tenth of those jobs. Having this debate actually feels quite silly.
The public service numbers need to come down with or
without AIAI doesn't have to be part of this debate.
We have sixteen thousand more public servants than we did
nine years ago, and no one's getting any better service.
So you don't need all those people. That is the II.
That is the argument AI here is just a distraction.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Heaver dup clan.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
N two niney two is the text number on my man.
It's gone give it to us, But jazzy, what is
it not working there? We are It's like, but you
know what that was That was the AI. That's what
happens when you rely on the aim. Tell you nineteen
nine who is the text number? Standard text FECE applied.
We'll have a little chat about it with the huddle.
We've got some great huddlers for you this evening right

(03:17):
now though, still on the subject of the public service cuts,
we have the man in charge of it also, Brian wrote,
who is the Public Service Commissioner?

Speaker 4 (03:23):
Hello Brian, Hello, good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Okay, Now is there a plan here that is greater
than just we're putting a cap on. We're going to
do some amalgamation and we're going to figure it out
in the next three years.

Speaker 5 (03:35):
Yeah, there is.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
I mean the intent of the plan is actually to
improve the qualitis, quality and timeliness of the service proposition
to New Zealand citizens and taxpaths. We've been on this
journey for a long time.

Speaker 6 (03:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
The announcements yesterday are very very important because they send
very strong message to us public servants about what's expected
of us. We are up for the challenge and the
opportunity ahead of us.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Okay, so why fifty five thousand that seems arbitrary?

Speaker 4 (04:04):
Now fifty five represents one percent of the New Zealand population.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
That was a.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
Reference point which existed, as I understand it, through to
twenty seventeen. So it does have a degree of relevance
and a degree of integrity, and that is the target
that we're now aiming for, because why would we represent
greater than one percent? In fact, the argument is could
we be better and less than one percent? And that's
something we're going to discover.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Quite right, But why one percent? I mean that seems arbitrary.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
It does, but it's good to have a reference point
because that is what we've achieved in the past. And
I think there's a much better argument about why wouldn't
you be at one percent? Or why couldn't you be
below one percent? Those are the debates that we're going
to be having over the next few months.

Speaker 6 (04:51):
Now.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Have you not been thinking about this yourself? Because I
was under the impression you had spent quite a while
thinking about how to do this?

Speaker 6 (04:58):
My right?

Speaker 7 (05:00):
Correct?

Speaker 4 (05:00):
I think about this every day. It's at the heart
of the job. It's at the heart of what I
was employed to do, and it's taken the best part
of the year to get the ownership within the public
sector at a Chief executive's level about what the nature
of the problem is and what the solution is. So
we feel we know what we need to do. We're
really committed to doing it, and I think the government

(05:23):
has been very clear in their expectations. I intend to
deliver on those expectations.

Speaker 8 (05:28):
Now.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
The reason I ask you that question is then surely
in your head there is more of a plan here
than the plan that was announced yesterday, Like, you must
have some idea yourself of what these amalgamations should look like.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
I do.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
I haven't got all of the answers, humbling as that sounds,
but what I do know is we've got too many agencies.
There's duplication, there's overlap, more people as higher transaction costs
or quality. The more we can simplify, the better. I
think the Ministry of Cities and Environment is a very
good example of amalgamating four entities. I think there are

(06:05):
other opportunities to do that. We're going to spend the
next few months organizing our thoughts and there'll be advice
to the incoming government.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Are you of the view that you can't do all
of this amalgamation though, unless you tidy up the lines
of reporting to ministers so that one agency will only
have one minister to answer to.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
That's sort of beyond my pay grade. To be honest,
I believe that the system can actually reform itself. Let
the ministers and the Prime Minister that work out. He's
been very clear he'd like to simplify that. That would
certainly help us. But I don't think we should wait
here and sit with suboptimal outcomes and lose control of
our own destiny as a public service. We need to

(06:46):
actually respond to the signals and actually pick up the channels.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
What worries me is that we end up with a
bunch of mbs, and MB's are complete shambles when you
think about all the reporting lines to ministers and everything
that's going on in there. Are you worried at all
that you might take three or four smaller and I
sound like I don't like this idea. I do like
this idea. But are you worried that you might take
three or four smaller agencies put them into one big

(07:12):
agency and it kind of loses its efficiency and nimbleness?

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah, I am. I think MB is not a model
in its current form that I find attractive. I think
that you know, there's an optimal size for organizational form,
so it's got clear focus on core business and stakeholders.
This is sort of part of the problem is we
only seem to reform ourselves every thirty or forty years.

Speaker 7 (07:39):
We need to actually get much.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
More sort of contemporary and dynamic in the way we
think about organizations and how they act as a vehicle
to serve as citizens.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Go on, then, do you want to say something about AI.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
Well, AI is part of the answer, but it's not
the only answer. Is there's no question it will have
a very profound impact on every workplace. The public sector
is no difference. You know, we need to embrace the
opportunity it gives us. But actually, I believe if we
have a really high functioning AI system, the quality of

(08:15):
our human capital will become even more important. So we're
not talking about a oneful and substitute. I like a
lot of the mundane work and some of the other
stuff done by AI, so I can extract better quality
from the people that we've got working.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Brian, thank you for making the time to talk to us.
It's aways a pleasure to talk to you that Sir
Brian wrote the Public Service Commissioner. Hither, I don't think
we need AI or anything else, frankly, to replace eighty
seven hundred public servants. I reckon that easily be that
number surplus to requirements, and when they're gone, they won't
even be missed. Bang on Jake, sixteen past four.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
It's the Heather Do, Basil and Drive Full Show podcast
on iHeartRadio powered Blind News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Hither, I'm a lawyer, you are wrong. That does sound
a little bit like I'm a lawyer. I'm right, you
are wrong, but I yeah, but of course you're a lawyer,
so you would say that in three years time it
is going to be so much better. This is AI.
We're all learning as fast as we can. Listen, everybody
needs to be using AI. Don't be weird about AI,

(09:18):
but also don't overestimate what it's going to do. Otherwise
you're going to get caught up in that bubble for nineteen.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Sport with generates putting performance first generate?

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Can we save the dot co dot USC watergrade sports
talk hosters with us?

Speaker 9 (09:29):
Hello, Darcy, Oh, and't apologize for interjecting. I can't help myself.
That's what happens when you invite.

Speaker 7 (09:34):
Me in early.

Speaker 10 (09:35):
Should hold me out the front there and wait till
I'm actually on, then let me in.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
I quite liked your take on AI replaced it because
somebody sent me a text. Was a David who sent
me a text and said, it's replacing AI is replacing
all the TV newsreaders. You're next, and you said it'd
be very hard to replace you, and you your way off.

Speaker 9 (09:50):
Well, well, I think that AI can't think like I think.
Maybe in a few years it might be able to
be good luck replicating what's going on in my mind?

Speaker 10 (09:57):
Mate.

Speaker 9 (09:58):
Do they have like any form of psychoanalysis for Ai?
I mean, can Ai go and sit on the couch
and talk about his father, because if AI starts thinking
like me, AI has in all sorts of trouble, it's
going to need a shrink.

Speaker 6 (10:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
AI might also have dad issues.

Speaker 10 (10:15):
Yeah, who doesn't.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Okay, So talk to me about the Championship playoffs.

Speaker 8 (10:18):
What's going on.

Speaker 10 (10:19):
About the NBA?

Speaker 9 (10:21):
Yeah, craziness. Just Game one of the Eastern Conference Finals
and so the Necks have turnaround. They're beating the Cavaliers
one fifteen one O four, which is nothing big in
itself except what eight minutes to go? They were down
ninety three seventy one, so they took this massive, crazy run.
They were on a thirty and eight run. They took

(10:42):
it to extra time and in overtime they got it
done fourteen three and one, one hundred and fifteen four.
It's like the largest when in playoff history for thirteen years.

Speaker 11 (10:54):
Wow.

Speaker 9 (10:54):
Quite the turnaround. Yeah, quite insane. So you got to
respect nor yoick at home. So I think, you know,
the likes of maybe Woody Yellam was in the crowd
or Jay Z to impress somebody like.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
That talking about the NBA, was talking about Southampton a right? Playoffs?

Speaker 10 (11:13):
Ah?

Speaker 6 (11:13):
Right?

Speaker 9 (11:15):
Was I just the NBA. As soon as you Championship,
I thought about the NBA. They've they got caught spying
very much like what happened back in the day to
the Heenix coach now, but that's ancient history to be.
They have a drone, they were taking photographs and they
got rumbled, they got caught, so if they have tossed
them out. So they're not going to be in the final,

(11:37):
and this last game is going to determine whether they
go up from the Championship to the Premier League or not.
But they're not playing, so they're not and this is
reportedly costing them four hundred and something millions.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
But the argument that you were making earlier this week,
which is that they had to be kicked out because
otherwise that it would pay off to cheat, that's it.

Speaker 9 (12:00):
And they were actually turning on them and going no, no, no,
we are coming back to now we want a review
and apparently that's set down to go tomorrow because they've
got to get it sorted out before that final championship
game starts, so they need to get it done. They've
got a lot of work.

Speaker 10 (12:17):
It doesn't look good for them, and I get the.

Speaker 9 (12:20):
Feeling I don't know this for sure, and I'm just
hot taking as you do. They would are oh fine,
us who cares?

Speaker 10 (12:26):
Just just do it anyway.

Speaker 9 (12:27):
Ah o, W hold my beer, go the fa Oh
that's the only old they've got. Manchester City have been
under the pump as well for all sorts of dodgy
and devious money behavior over the years. And I don't
know what that's going to result in. But that's one
hundred million plus and that still comes well. But hey,
Arsenal won, let's talk about that. A well done Arsenal congratulations.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Darsy water grows sports stalk hoast. It's back at seven.
It's four twenty two.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
The day's newspeakers talk to Heather first, Heather Duplicy.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Ellen drive with One New Zealand and the power of
satellite mobile news Doorg said me.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
By the way, on the subject of sport, it's not
looking good for that rugby lawsuit about concussion. Apparently this
is the one involving all the high profile players over
in the UK. It involves whales and you know then
will rugby and stuff. Anyway, apparently the law firm representing
the players hasn't yet ponied up all the medical information
that Wild Rugby and the other rugby unions have asked for,
and they've been asking for a while, so this is

(13:28):
getting kind of ridiculous apparently. So anyway, they are now
moving to strike out any players whose records they don't
yet have, and it may be quite a number of players,
and some significant players as well, to the extent that
there is now speculation that the case may collapse, so
keep an eye on that. Now here's a question for you, OK,
how many regulation bodies like bodies that regulate us, how

(13:48):
many regulatory bodies do you reckon? We've got on the
country two hundred and seventy two hundred and sixty seven
to be exact, probably missed a few, So two hundred
and seventy two hundred and seventy bodies, which's actually quite
a lot when you think about it. Apparently ninety five
are in central government, seventy nine are in local government,
and fifty seven are statutory bodies committees of tribunals. And

(14:09):
they're running everything that you do, right, So they're running
like do you have a dog as your dog's supposed
to be on the leash? Is it complying with all
the dog things? Has got a micro cat? Got a microchip?
Are you allowed to build that wall where you How
close are you to the fans? Like all that kind
of stuff. It's like everything that you do. Did you
just burp? Now there's a regulation for that, probably, Like
they're just regulating everything anyway. Not all of them, obviously

(14:31):
are bad. In fact, i'd say the vast majority of
them are good, and many of the rules are good
and rules that we all appreciate, Like if you build
a house, youve got to build it to a certain
standard so we can be sure that when we buy
the house it's not a leaky building. But if there's
one thing that you and I know about this world,
it's that there are lots of stupid rules. And if
every one of them's just got one rule that's a

(14:51):
dumb rule, that's two hundred and sixty seven dumb rules.
And they won't just have one dumb rule, they have
many dumb rules. Anyway, David Seymour is going to be
with us after five o'clock. Is it's his Ministry for
Regulation that went and did this report and figured it
all out, so he'll ask her. We'll ask him. I mean,
if two hundred and sixty seven sounds like a lot,
then how many should it be. We'll ask him that
after five, Heather, I think we need to drop the

(15:12):
subject of AI. So many of our young kids are
really quite worried about it and how many jobs are
going to be unavailable when they reach the market. It's
all right for us in our fifties and sixties speak
to yourself, mate, but it's the young kids who I
worry about. AI should and should never be replacing jobs
that need human touch. Andy, do you what do you
know what worries me? Is how much our kids are

(15:33):
worried about stuff like there's a real fear thing going
on there, which seems a bit out of hand, doesn't it.
News is Next Day.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
On your smart speaker, on the iHeart app, and in
your car on your drive home, it's Heather duplic Ellen
Drive with One New Zealand and the power of satellite
mobile news talks.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
The'd be.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Naru's going to change its name. So Naru is one
of these cases of names that it's not actually the
original name, but it's kind of what when the whities
turned up, they go, oh, what's that? What are you saying? Naru? Okay,
and it just sounded like Naru, and so became Naru.
But actually the name is Nawero naweral, so this is
what the locals call it. So as a result, Parliament

(16:19):
has voted sixteen zero to change the name. It now
goes to a referendum and if the people say yes
to it then it will officially be changed. And so
if you've got a map with Naru on it, hold
hold on to it. So it's going to become a
collector's item because it's going to be Nawerdal very soaper
is with US in ten minutes time. It's twenty four
away from five.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
It's the world wires on news talks. It'd be drive.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
So USVP jd Vance says a lot of progress has
been made on those peace talks with Iran. He also
said the US has prepared to resume attacks if there
isn't a peace deal soon.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
This is not going to be the sort of thing
that lasts forever.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I think a lot of Americans, especially in my generation,
who are worried about forever, endless conflicts.

Speaker 12 (16:58):
We have to remember, I think you said, eleven weeks
a big chunk of that has been a ceasefire.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
This is not a forever war in Iran.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
The government is holding military training in schools and mosques
as a show of force, but people on the streets
of taransay the war is causing massive inflation that is
hitting them hard. Prices are increasing every second and people
can barely afford anything. I can no longer buy many
of the items they purchased just a month ago. And finally, I.

Speaker 13 (17:24):
Told you there was a snuffalopagus, and last you've seen him,
and you've gotta believe it.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Right, So a fish has been named after mister snuffalupagus
from Sesame Street. The hairy ghost pipe fish is now
officially called the Solenostomos snuffalupagus. Did I get their right ants?
Thank you obviously a great, great lesson.

Speaker 14 (17:47):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
It was first spotted in two thousand and one and
has now been confirmed as a new species. The fish
actually looks a lot like Snuffy, So it's discover as
our Sesame Street if they could name the fish after him,
and of course the request was granted.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
International correspondence with ends and eye insurance, peace of mind
for New Zealand business.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Gordon Robinson, US and Middle East correspondent is with us.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Hallo Gordon, Hello, having a pleasure to be with you.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
It is lovely to chat to you again. Where are
we at with this war? Is Trump going to bomb
around or not?

Speaker 12 (18:18):
Well, your guess is probably as good as mine. We're
still in a fragile stalemate masquerading as a cease fire.
You played the SoundBite from JD. Van's A moment ago.
Trump said something similar, essentially that he had planned to
launch a massive attack on Iran but was talked into
briefly pausing it by some of his golf allies and

(18:41):
some unnamed other allies, which I presume as a reference
to Pakistan. You know, maybe that's true, Maybe it's gamesmanship.
At this point, it's really hard to tell which is which.
But the United States is clearly still looking for a
way out of this, and suppose, you know, if we
can keep it paused a little bit. I hate to

(19:04):
sound to sound flippant about something as important as a war,
but it feels as though the US administration is just
kicking the can down the road, even if it's only
for a few days at a time.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
I mean, the longer this goes on, obviously, the more
uncomfortable it is for everybody in the world other than
it would well, including around But it seems to be
that they can withstand this at the moment. Is the
US do you think, in the end going to buckle
on the uranium demands?

Speaker 12 (19:33):
Well, I don't think so, at least at least it
doesn't seem to me like they're going to do anything
that could be characterized as buckling. The trick is that
uranium is such a very specific subject that it's the
kind of thing that you can probably find some sort

(19:54):
of a accommodation where both sides can claim that they won.
The US is bottom line notably has not been that
that Iran can't have uranium. It's been that Iran can't
have a bomb, and there is, you know, a long,
long road between having uranium and having a bomb. So

(20:14):
one of the few bright sides in all of this
is that seems to be somewhere where they probably could
come up with a clever formulation that meets both sides
needs politically.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
And so it's awkward for Trump to be seen to
be losing. So is he talking about everything other than
Iran at the moment?

Speaker 12 (20:30):
Pretty much. Yes, He's talking about his ballroom, which you know,
give him, this is something he clearly is very very
enthusiastic about. This is the gigantic ballroom that he wants
to build where the East wing of the White House
used to stand. He's talking about cosmetic changes to Washington
as we approach the United States two hundred and fiftieth

(20:51):
birthday in July. But the big thing that's been going
on also is frankly, a political retribution trip around the
United States.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
States.

Speaker 12 (21:00):
You hear a lot, and I think this is important
for viewers listeners outside the United States. You hear a
lot about Trump being historically unpopular as a president. That
is true, but it is also true that he's demonstrated,
just within literally the last few hours, that he still
has an iron grip on the Republican Party. Just in

(21:21):
the last couple of hours, one of the very few
Republican congressmen who's been willing to push back against Trump
lost his primary, so he'll be leaving Congress at the
end of his current term. This comes a couple of days,
literally only three days after a Republican senator from Louisiana,
who five years ago voted against Trump over the January

(21:43):
sixth impeachment, lost his primary. So Trump's approval ratings may
be low, but he is going out of his way
to remind everyone that he's still in charge of everyone
on his side of the aisle.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Very interesting, Hey, Gordon, thank you very much, as always
appreciated talking to you. That's Gordon Robinson, USM least correspondent.
By the way, there's been a bit of chat overnight
about the fact that NATO may be drawing up some
plans to go in and free up the Strait of Humers.
It's top commander has said no, that is not happening
because any decision to launch a mission like that would
require the approval of all thirty two members, and several

(22:16):
have already signaled opposition to it.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
For ever do for see Ellen.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Now I'm drawing something to your attention because I think
there is the chance that this becomes interesting next week.
This is Auckland City Council, Auckland Council's plan to get
the seven point nine percent rate rises over the line.
Apparently Aucklanders hate it. Now, if you're in the rest
of the country, you're probably listening to seven point nine,
especially places like Well, if you're listening to seven point

(22:40):
nine going, that's imminently reasonable. That's not that high. Was
the problem is? That's because that's not high for you.
But for Auckland, this is the highest rate rise Aucklanders
have ever been asked to pay. And Auckland is a
furious about it, apparently because Auckland do see this as basically,
this is the cost of running the CRL, the underground
train set that Auckland didn't want, but that has now

(23:02):
been built anyway, so there is a lot of unhappiness
about this, and what I'm hearing from within council and
from people who watch council and stuff, is that there
is a strong chance that this actually doesn't pass, that
Wayne Brown cannot muster the numbers to get this across
the line next week. I think they're voting on a
Tuesday ten am at the moment, and it's really hard

(23:25):
to just remember this. It's really hard to be absolutely
sure of the numbers because people say they're going to
vote one way, and then they don't vote that way,
and then they get scared of something and they change
in mind, blah blah blah. But at the moment, what
is being said is that there are eleven people on
Council in Auckland who are against it and ten who
are for it. But apparently what Wayne Brown is going
to do is he's going to rely on the two

(23:49):
independent Maori Statutory Board members who are unelected. They do
not they are not elected by the people of Auckland,
but they now have full voting rights. So eleven against
and ten to four the rate rise then becomes eleven
against and twelve four and it passes because the two
unelected Mary independent Independent Marty Statutory Board members basically change

(24:11):
the game. Now this is controversial because those two should
not be able to vote because they are unelected. Right,
This is not democracy. This is a weird little contution
that's happening here. Rate Payers don't ask for these people
to be there. And I'm happy to be corrected on
this if I am wrong, But I don't think the
original legislation that set up the super City and Auckland
ever gave the independent Statutory Mary Board, Independent Marty statutory

(24:33):
board members voting rights. I think that that has happened subsequent.
It's either happened under way and Brown will feel Golf,
maybe Phil Golf, but anyway, the whole thing just is go.
If this is what happens. If Auckland is angry about
this and the only way he gets this across the
line is because he's relying on two unelected members, I
think it's going to get quite nasty anyway. Incidentally, happily
for us, Morris Williamson, who is on counsel and always

(24:55):
knows all this stuff, is going to be with us
on the huddle. So we'll flick him a question about
it to see what he can tell us. That's, of course,
in about an hour's time. Barry Soapers next sixteen away
from five.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Politics was centric credit, check your customers and get payments certainty.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
The acmore AX party leader will actually minister for regulation
on all of those regulators with US after five thirteen
away from five Barry Soapers with US High Barry. Good afternoon, Heather,
So talk to me about the Razor gang on the
public service.

Speaker 10 (25:19):
Well, it's had a lot of debate, as you would
imagine today in Parliament because it is significant the announcement
made yesterday by Nikola Willis and what it's led to,
of course, is a lot of attention being paid to
Winston Peters because you'll remember when the last Razor gang
talked to the public service six point four percent. I

(25:42):
think they wanted savings from the public wage bill. Winston
Peters was exempt from that. And foreign affairs and Winston
has always when his Foreign Affairs under Helen Clark, he
also he got a big boost to foreign affairs. That's
why foreign affairs lovin. But he is very good at
that job. But nobody would deny that. And he's always

(26:03):
argued that we should be well represented overseas, and I
don't think anybody would argue without either. But what Willis
was saying and not really opposing Winston's view, but saying
maybe not this side of the election. Well, none of
the big cuts will come the side of the election anyway.
It will be the other side.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Well, it'll be three years are.

Speaker 10 (26:25):
Well indeed, so it's a slow train this one. Actually,
she said, in some cases, both in Fat Staff and
her for example, could start flying cattle class and not business. Well,
I don't know whether that's going to save a lot
of money, and it won't save a lot in terms
of prestige either. I mean, I think a cabinet minister

(26:47):
should be flying business class in my view. And probably
some people are saying, why shouldn't they just be like us, Well,
they like a chief executive of a pretty big company. So,
she said that the two men that her and Winston
have had extensive debate about going's impacts ongoing funding. She

(27:08):
says she always wants to communicate with Winston, the finance minister.
She was being quizzed in Labored by Labor this afternoon
by her opposite number, Barbara Edam Edmunds about what would
appear to be contradictory statements coming from Winston Peas and
her over fat funding.

Speaker 15 (27:25):
Not so, says Willis once again, as the member has
done in this House repeatedly, she's mischaracterizing a statement from
another member. And in this case, yes, what the Minister
of Foreign Affairs is reflecting fairly as he said to
me face to face, as he said to journalists, as
the member has picked up on that he would like
to see the Ministry of Foreign Affairs continue to receive

(27:48):
more funding into the future. It is the case that
we have agreed that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will
submit savings proposals as part of the baseline savings exercise.

Speaker 10 (27:58):
So he's prepared to get on on board. But like
I said, this is sort of further out. There's a
coalition negotiation to take place between now and then. So
you know, I think you're pretty safe if you're in
Winston Peter's position to argue that he won't be adopting
any servants.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Have you just found this discussion about AI just so
hopelessly naive?

Speaker 10 (28:20):
No, I don't see. I don't entirely agree with you,
and that's not that unusual, and I'd say either. But look,
David Seymour, he was certainly busy in the Bear Pitt
today filling in for the Prime minister, and you know
the AI thing and the public service cuts, they were
sort of interlinked. Seymour said the public service was cumbersome

(28:43):
and made so by the labor government who added eighteen thousand,
as we all know, public servants to the public payroll.
The act leader says many the aim of this government
was quite simple.

Speaker 14 (28:55):
The simple answer is that sometimes you can actually do
something smarter and get a.

Speaker 16 (29:00):
Better result with the same or fewer people.

Speaker 7 (29:03):
How will artificial intelligence be used to replace the work
of a front line's corrections officer working in a prison.

Speaker 14 (29:09):
I tell you what, if that member got artificial intelligence,
it wouldn't be replacing anything.

Speaker 10 (29:17):
It wasn't a bad line. But just on the AI debate,
and we're going to have a lot of this in
the coming years, and I've listened to a number of
podcasts about it from various so called world experts on it.
I mean, one of the intelligence pioneers and economists at
Lobal Nobel Laureate Jeffrey Hinton and Bill Gates indeed said

(29:42):
that AI will transform the workforce like the Industrial revolution did.
It'll be about the same, although it will deal in
different areas. It will replace jobs as the industrial Revolution did.
But because it's essentially about cognitive work, there will be
other ways are found of doing those jobs as this cutback, Well,

(30:04):
you'll probably find it'll be used in that way.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, it's so what I mean, that's cool. It's going
to transform work in the way the computers transformed work.

Speaker 10 (30:13):
Well, no, no, to a larger degree.

Speaker 14 (30:15):
I think.

Speaker 10 (30:16):
I mean you you if you listen to these people
as too. We haven't got the time to go into
it here, but if you listen to the experts, they
say jobs will be replaced, there will be fewer people
that'll be needed because of artificial intelligence. No, and how many,
Well they say it'll be tantamount to what we saw

(30:36):
in the Industrial Revolution or whatever.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
I know, everybody's just making stuff up. It's just embarrassing. Verry,
Thank you very much, appreciate it, very so for senior
political correspondence. Seven away from.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Five here yourself, think it's a my hosting breakfast. Nicola Willis,
Finance Minister back, Well, there's any regrets. You should have
done this properly two years ago, shouldn't you know?

Speaker 17 (30:54):
We've made great progress since we came to office. We've
had the number of policy analyst administrators. That's come down considerably.
We've got better results out of the public service, with
violent crime down, educational achievement, are health waiting lists reducing.
We've got to double down and go harder to make
the public service deliver the results that you expect, that
the public expects.

Speaker 9 (31:15):
By only two thousand a couple of years ago and
nine thousand now.

Speaker 17 (31:18):
Well, because to get fundamental changes we need to completely
restructure the system.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Back tomorrow at six am the Mike Hosking Breakfast, we've
Defender News Talk z B listen.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
I got to say it's going, isn't it going?

Speaker 8 (31:32):
Great?

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Guns for christ Church. So christ Church has got three
new non stop international flights that in New Zealand are
launching later this year, christ Church to Singapore, christ Church
to Tokyo and christ Church to Perth, which is I
think a smart mood like never mind the destination, smart move,
like the other destinations. Smart move from Mere, New Zealand
flying out of christ Church, not out of Auckland because Auckland,
if you've been following this Auckland, they reckon Auckland are

(31:54):
ripping them off with the landing charges and Auckland Airport
will not listen to a New Zealand. So a New
Zealand has just gone bugger. We're going to fly out
of christ Church, so I think is a really smart move. Anyway,
we'll talk to christ Church Airport chief executive after five o'clock.
On the public servicings, it has occurred to me that
this has been really mishandled, I want to say by
the government, but not really by the government. It's really
by the National Party. Because when you think, like, just

(32:18):
for what do you think this is the second round
of public sector cuts? When you heard this announced this week,
did you go, oh, no, not again. They've already done
it once. Not again? I reckon a lot of people
will think that because a lot of people think there's
already been one set of public sector cuts and there
hasn't been. We have only sort of lost about two
thousand public sector workers, which is nothing like when Jacinda
and them took over the number was forty seven. It

(32:40):
hit a peak of sixty five, and this government's brought
it back to sixty three. That's not really a cut, right,
that's just like a little bit of attrition, Like who
really cares? But now what's happened is they've gone and
they've announced their actual set of they've worn it. But
they because they pretended they were cutting beforehand when they didn't,
they now look like they're in their second round of cuts,
which they're not. They look cold and heartless. And Nicola Willis,
I think has tried really hard to avoid being seen

(33:02):
as a Ruth Richardson type figure, like a real hard
ass who goes and cuts. But this is what she
looks like like. She people think she's Ruth Richardson when
she's not Ruth Richardson because she hadn't done anything like
that yet, just been really mismanaged by the government. It's
weird that they It's weird that they've made it look
like they were doing things that they weren't doing, so
then they had to announce they were doing those things
and now looks like they've done it twice. Anyway, David

(33:24):
Seymour and the Regulators next.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
The only drive show you can try. Truck to ask
the questions, get the answers up, find a fat sack.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
And give the analysis. Hither dupis Ellen Drive with.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
One New Zealand and the Power of Satellite Mobile News
Talks That be good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
If you had to guess how many different regulators we
had in New Zealand. Would you guess? Two hundred and
sixty seven. That's the number. That's according to a new
report from the Ministry for Regulation, and the finding has
been labeled twisted spaghetti of regulators who don't just cost
money to fund, but suck up people's time and force
others to give up completely. That's from David Seymour, who is,
of course the minister. Let's talk to him. Hi, David, Hey,

(34:10):
is that necessarily too many?

Speaker 14 (34:13):
No, there's no right number. But when you consider that,
this means we have basically got a regulator of some
sort for every town. The size of fielding in this
country does feel like we're a small country with far
too bigger government. And then you look at some specific
examples we drilled into dogs because it's just a bit
of fun. I mean, there's five different government agencies that

(34:35):
regulate dogs, there's eleven different laws that regulate dogs, and
then there's a bunch of sub agencies. I mean then
there's the police, the SPCA and so on. So there's
actually just a crazy number of people involved in regulating dogs.
Now why does that matter? Because the Minister for the
local government is currently trying to deal to dog attacks,

(34:57):
the number of people he has to deal with if
he's going to do anything meaningful. I'm not saying you
won't succeed, but you just feel that a lot of
things would be easier if we looked at these and said, hey,
maybe we need fewer agencies focused on doing things that
are essential. We get better results, less costs, and it
be easier to fix things.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Okay, so let's stick with the example of the dogs.
Can you fold all five of those bodies into one
body to make it simple?

Speaker 6 (35:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 14 (35:21):
I suspect. I mean, we don't know where it will
go in the end, but I suspect you don't need
the DIA in the form of councils, the police, the doc,
the MPI. I suspect you could say, look, there's one
agency that's going to be all things dogs. If you've
got a dog, talk to these guys rather than what
we have.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Now, Are there any that stand out to you? Any
regulators that stand out in that list as actually just
been redundant altogether.

Speaker 14 (35:50):
It will be a bit controversial, but we got something
like a dozen different medical regulators. We've got nurses, dentists, doctors, pharmacists,
and quite a number of physiosm it and so it goes, and.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
So you would scrap some of them or blend them
into one.

Speaker 14 (36:07):
When it's really fragmented. What they end up doing is
actually fighting for turf with each other and trying to
keep people out who could do a good job because
they tend to be dominated by the incumbents in that
industry or that sector, rather than asking about what's best
for patients. The other thing about having a whole lot
of small regulators is that they tend to look for

(36:30):
stuff to do, whereas if you have one and say, look,
you got finite resources, finite time, do the things you
really have to do, like keeping patients safe, make that
your priority. Then they kind of have to economize and
you actually get efficiency. So that would be an example
of where I think we could do a lot better.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Cool Now, listen on the public servant cull. Is this
one that's been announced today actually going to happen? And
the reason I'm asking that is that you had promised
pro the last election to get rid of fourteen thousand
and it didn't happen, So why will this one happen?

Speaker 14 (37:00):
Because it didn't happen when I promised it, because there's
three parties, and of course you know you can be
there every day harassing the other two. But at the
end of the day, you lead a horse to water,
you can't make them drink. I think what has made
them drink is the financial reality. And this is another
thing I've said that sooner or later, financial reality is
going to drive us towards the sum of the things

(37:22):
that's been saying. And the other reason I believe this
will happen is that the Treasury has now put it
into the books. So if we don't do this, and frankly,
heaven forbid it, another government got in and didn't do
this after November, then they are going to have to
adjust up their spending forecast therefore borrow more money, run
bigger deficits for longer. And I think that is simply

(37:45):
not credible for any government in a country that's already
on watch from the ratings agencies right.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Now, David, thanks for your time, appreciated, David Seymour Regulation
Minister five to eleven.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
Heather Duperil more good news for.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Christ Church in New Zealand has announced three new non
stop international routes and they will all fly out of
christ Cheurch Airport. They're going to launch in late October
to Perth, Singapore and Tokyo. Justin Watson is the Christchiach
Airport Chief Executive and with us Hi Justin cure heaven
did a New Zealand come to you or you go
to them all?

Speaker 11 (38:16):
Look, we work in partnership with all of our airline partners,
but in this case US in New New Zealand have
been discussed for some time on this.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Do you think it's been sparked their interest in christ
Church as opposed to to Auckland? Obviously, I mean, you
guys are the hot new place. But is it also
sparked by the fact that Auckland Airport is charging them
so much?

Speaker 11 (38:37):
Look, I think it's predominantly because of what's happening in
christ Church. In the pull of destination christ Church, I mean,
we really are in a sweet spot at the moment.
People want to come and visit, they want to go
to events, they want to see the place, they want
to access the South Island, and so I'd say that's
the primary draw card.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
How much demand do you reckon there is for these
these three roots?

Speaker 11 (38:59):
Look, I think a lot we have modeled the demand.
We believe three services a week to each of those
destinations is a good starting point and a starting point
that we can then grow from.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Justin, how from how far Afield in New Zealand you
reckon people will fly into christ Church to then fly
out to these places.

Speaker 11 (39:19):
That's a really interesting question because there's sort of a
mindset issue because if you're sitting in Wellington, it's actually
quicker to fly from Wellington to christ Church to Singapore
than it is to go over Auckland. But there's a
mindset issue where people don't like to feel like they're
going backwards. So certainly from within the South Island is

(39:43):
our primary catchment, but really anything Taupo South does make sense.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Well, okay, Justin, thanks very much, good LUCKI that Justin Watson,
christ Church Airport chief Executive Heather dupless Ellen Shippy really
doesn't help himself.

Speaker 16 (39:57):
Now.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yesterday I was telling you that that the l they
told you about Labor and their future fund, right, this
is the big fund where they're going to put all
the state owned assets into it, and then they're gonna
bring fence them so they can't be sold, and then
they're going to get revenue and then they're going to
redistribute the money. Of course, and what we found out
yesterday is they have no idea which SOEs are going
to go in, and they have no idea really how
much money they're going to make from it. They're going

(40:18):
to find this neither do we, and we won't until
after the election. So obviously that is so ridiculous that
Chippy's been asked about it today. He says New Zealanders
don't really care. He says, I don't think the public
really care which companies are going to go in or not.
I think the public care about the fact that we're
going to keep state assets and National is going to
sell them. Well, this is where he runs into a problem.

(40:38):
Like he might be right, but this is where he
runs into a problem. The problem is he needs the
revenue from that fund to pay for other stuff in
his fiscal plan. But he can't know how much revenue
he's going to get out of that fund unless he
knows which state owned enterprises will go into that fund. Therefore,
he can't know how much money he has to spend
from that fund. So whatever he he says before the election,

(41:01):
if he's like, we're going to get a billion dollars
in revenue. It's made up. Everything is literally made up
because he doesn't know what he's doing and apparently we
don't really care. So that's a bit insulting. In a
quarter past. Okay, get ready, because the good wine co
have a quite frankly absurdly good deal on right now.
This is a canceled export order on a five star
ninety four out of one hundred rated Marlborough Savagnon blanc

(41:22):
from a cracker of a twenty twenty five vintage which
has been cleared right now at nine ninety nine a bottle.
Now this is truly five star savvy at a two
star price. The wine is called core Tartar Mirlborough Savnon
Blanc twenty twenty five and the quality that you're getting
here for a Marlborough savy for ten bucks is just outstanding.
It's originally destined for the Australian market, now being urgently

(41:45):
cleared here on the domestic market at just nine ninety
nine per bottle. The twenty twenty five vintage, by the way,
Marlborough was a great one. Once up here and you're
going to see what the fuss is about and better
yet pages two dollars per case delivery to you adull.
Nationwide conditions apply. Now the phone are going to be
ringing hot. So if you can't get through to the
Good Wine Coach, just order online at the Goodwine dot

(42:06):
co dot n Z or give them a call. T
try the lines oh eight one hundred double six two
double six.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
Two together do for c Ellen.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Now I'm going to talk to the new that do
you know that there's a new breakers Coach. There's a
new Breakers Coach. We're going to talk to the new
Breakers Coach. I think this might be like the first
interview the new Breakers Coach has done with anybody in
New Zealand, and we're going to do it in twenty
minutes less than twenty minutes time. But I'm not sure
at the moment if I'm allowed to tell you what
their name is. I'm not even sure if I'm allowed
to tell you the gender. So hold on attack, I'm

(42:35):
just gonna have a look at I'll see what we
can figure out, and then I'll tell you as much
as I can before we get to half past five.
It's nineteen past five. Now, this is kind of serious stuff.
Police are warning about a social media trend that involves
people filming attacks on gay men and public. There have
been a series of attacks. If you've been following the
news you'll have seen it, and in the Cargol four
teenagers have been arrested so far. One man was sent

(42:56):
to hospital and critical condition at least and the police
are worried that this could turn fatal. Gordy Lockhat is
the founder of UBU, which is an advocacy group for
rural queer people and with us. Hi Gordy, Hi, Curla,
how are you, Heller? I'm well, thank you. Why are
people doing this?

Speaker 18 (43:13):
It's an interesting one. As you said, it's a bit
of an online a space of issues that have come
from this, and I think the biggest problem that we
have is the identification of the real crime. There was
a similar issue that happened in Toronto a couple of
years back, and the issue was that, of course, you
were using an app that is as yet unnamed, but
it does appear to be an act called Grinder, which

(43:34):
is a gay dating app to lure gay men to
an environment whereby they're attacked. Now, ultimately that's a hate crime,
and not describing it as such is complicity in the
crime itself. We can't cure crime by not naming the crime,
and my worry is that Southern police have not described
it as such, and in doing so, they're not dealing

(43:54):
with it as though they really should. So Ultimately, what's
causing the crime is one thing, but how we deal
with it is another.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Okay, but do you know why these young people are
doing I'm assuming this young people, right, teenagers? That obviously
is But are they doing it because they just they're
bored and they want to hurt somebody? Or do they
particularly want to hurt gay people?

Speaker 16 (44:11):
What is it?

Speaker 18 (44:14):
A bit of colony, bit of column be lately? I mean,
you know, why would you use an app specifically targeting
the LGBT community?

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Can I answer that question for you? Is it because
you're is it because you know you're more likely to
get somebody to come out?

Speaker 9 (44:27):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Like a gay man is more likely to meet you
in the park than a straight woman.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Let's just say, well, yeah, but you could have consider
why that's the case.

Speaker 16 (44:36):
Right.

Speaker 18 (44:36):
You can look at the elderbeat community and typically they
are arguably more alone, have less family around them, have
less support networks, and therefore have to do those sort
of things in order to meet people for whatever we do.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
But the reason I'm asking you the scord is because
there's also an online trend that has been drawn to
my attention, which is like a pedophile hunter thing, which
is completely different. Right, So where they're trying to find
they're trying to find people and best the map because
I think they're paid a fuzz. This isn't unrelated to this.

Speaker 18 (45:05):
I think there is a connection to that in the
sense that I think we should first of all state
that if anybody is meeting anybody underage, and I was
entirely inappropriate, it must be dealt with separately. But it
certainly doesn't excuse you know, physical violence and assaults.

Speaker 16 (45:18):
But I think.

Speaker 18 (45:18):
Otherwise, whoever anybody is meeting in a park for whatever reason,
assuming it's legal, is up to them. Yeah, you shouldn't
be attacked.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
The obvious advice here, Gordian, I don't know if anybody's
going to necessarily follow it is don't meet strangers in packs, right.

Speaker 18 (45:33):
And obviously that's true. But again, if you're from a
community marginalized, alone and unsure who you are, that is
the reality of life for a lot of gay men.
And they shouldn't be vivified for that, and they certainly
shouldn't be attacked in public for that. Moreover, when it happens,
the crime needs to be identified as such.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Listen, it is good to talk to you, Gordy. Thank
you for running us through that based of luck of this.
It's Gordy Lockhat YouTube founder five two.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
Quit strong opinion here the duplic Ellen drive with one
New Zealand and the power of satellite mobile news talk said.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
Be yeah, the old mate, Gordy, the YouTube founder. I
know I gave him a massive pay upgrade just like that.

Speaker 13 (46:14):
Five twenty of the YouTube founders are listening. Clearly we
would love to talk to you, so please email here
there at Newstalks.

Speaker 10 (46:19):
The'd be dot cot En.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Let's get to the bottom of what's going on and
in the cargol But anyway, is the ubu founder actually
five twenty five? Now listen, I'm just wondering if it's
dawning on the Labour Party all the problems they've got
as it is with the Future Fund. But I'm just
wondering if it's dawning on them that they may have
made a massive mistake as well by campaigning on the
capital gains tax again. Now you know what I'm talking
about here. This is the free Doctor's policy. It's the

(46:41):
one where they introduce a capital gains tax and then
that pays for three free visits to the GP every
year for every one of us, even if we can
pay for it ourselves. Now, voters in New Zealand have
rejected that capital gains tax idea by my count in
at least two elections already, and we would have rejected
it in a third election, but j just Sinda killed
at early Kash We could see that we hated it.

(47:01):
But Chippy and a group of commentators in the Beltway
have subsequently in the last few years convinced themselves that
actually we will changed our minds and we are ready
for a capital gains tax.

Speaker 10 (47:11):
We love it.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Well, look at what's happening in Australia today. That is
exactly what the Australian government said. They tried a capital
gains tax on about seven years ago. When I say
it's like slightly different with them, of course, because they've
got it, but they've got discounts. But they tried the
changes on that they've just implemented about seven years ago
and it tanked with voters. And then earlier this month
they told the ABC that things had changed because younger

(47:34):
millennials and Gen Z voters now make up a majority
of Australian voters. And the young ones love it because
it means they're going to get into housing. And so
the Albanese government went ahead and made the capital gains
tax changes in the budget last week and guess what
people hate it. Young people hate it. Young startup founders hated.
They say it's punishing them for being ambitious and for
wanting to invest in. They're going nuts with memes online

(47:57):
and Albanizi in them are trying to fight fires left
right and see. And the budget has been marked as
the least popular budget in five years because they got
it wrong. Capital gains taxes are just taxes. No one
likes taxes if they apply to them or to assets
they think they're going to own one day. Labor here
is not suffering from its capital gains tax policy just
yet because we're not in the campaign yet. But you
wait until voters in this country start focusing their minds

(48:19):
on the election proper. And between this and the Greens
wealth tax, Labour's going to learn the same truth that
Labor and Australia just learned. No one wants to be taxed,
even if it is a capital gains tax.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Ever dull, Yeah, Okay.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Gordon Herbert ESPN apparently has already leaked the information that
it's Gordon Herbert, who's a Canadian who has already coached
in German and Germany and done very well with the
basketball teams. So we're going to chat to him next. Incidentally,
we had fact three Gordon's on the show today, Gordon
Herbert next, Gordy Lockhunt just before, and Gordon Robinson, the
US and Middle East correspondent earlier, who knew.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Who's his Next, The day's newspakers talk to him.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Heather first, Heather Duplicy Ellen drive with one New Zealand
and the power of Satellite Mobile, New Stork said.

Speaker 10 (49:07):
Be.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Heather right, But Tory Farnore moving on. We may have
resolved Wellington's council problems. But rach Hung is doing his best.

Speaker 8 (49:18):
Isn't he.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Old pendulous breast strikes again. Yes, he is doing his best.
In fact, I thank you for reminding me, Jeff Jeremy.
I do need to actually get around to telling you
about what Ray's been up to, stiff, so stand by.
We will do that maybe after six o'clock. We've got
Morris Williamson and Jack Tames standing by for the huddle.
It's twenty four away from six. Now we can reveal
the new coach of the Breakers. It's Gordon Herbert, coach
of Canada, who are ranked fifth in the world at

(49:43):
the moments. That's not bad. And he also led Germany
to a World Cup title in twenty twenty three and
he's with us now.

Speaker 6 (49:48):
Hi, Gordon, good morning, good evening there.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Yeah, well, you know, good morning to you and thank
you very much for your time. First of all, obvious
question is why are you coming to New Zealand.

Speaker 6 (50:00):
I've always been intrigued by the league down there, and
obviously I had really good talks with Mark Mitchell and
Dylan Butcher, and I really liked the vision they had
in the commitment they had to really put a really
good team on the floor. And the second thing, it

(50:21):
aligned with my job with Basketball Canada very good. I
had some options here in Europe, but this this aligned
much better with Canada and you know, the Breakers really
Dylan really respected my job with Canada and really made
it work.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
When you say Mark Mitchell, are you talking about our
sports minister?

Speaker 6 (50:45):
No, I mean no, Mark Mitchell, the owner of the Breakers.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
We did think for a minute with Aught all that's
but weird. What's he doing involved?

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Now?

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Are you gonna be You're gonna so thank you for
clarifying that. Are you going to do this while also
coaching Canada?

Speaker 6 (51:02):
Yes, I am.

Speaker 16 (51:04):
So.

Speaker 6 (51:05):
It aligns very well. The season shorter, you know it
doesn't It works very well with coaching Canada, and I
want to I want to coach day by day still,
I just didn't want to coach the national team right now.
So it aligns very well, does it.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Are you going to have to do a favorite of commuting?
I would imagine that right, because this is a kind
of a hands on, in situ job.

Speaker 6 (51:31):
Yeah. We have some windows coming up in July, August, November,
and February, and then we have the World Cup in
twenty twenty seven as long as we qualify, so you know,
there it is. It is a little bit of travel
back and forth.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yes, What is it about the league that intrigued you?

Speaker 6 (51:53):
No, I watched the finals and I've been intrigued by
the league for many years. And I've been very interested
in coming down and coaching there. I think the league
is one of the better leagues around, very underrated and
getting better and better. It's a very well coached league,

(52:13):
you know. And it's a league that plays up temple.
They play with a real good flow and temple and pace,
and it's I think it's an up and coming league.
And you know, especially with you know, some of the
icon players coming back to the league from the NBA,
it's very very interesting.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Are you able to bring I mean, I don't entirely
know how this all works in terms of attracting talent
and where you get your talent from in this league
and who's allowed to come in, But are you allowed
to bring talent from overseas yourself?

Speaker 6 (52:48):
Yes, we're allowed three imports. And Dylan Butcher has actually
done a great job recruiting right now and building the team,
and you know, we have a few more spots to
ill and and we'll do that together.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
What's your take. I mean, you know, in New Zealand,
obviously for the longest time we've been completely rugby mad
and that seems to be waning, which I think creates
a window of opportunity for other sports out there. Football
is having a bit of a day with us. Do
you think basketball could actually increase in terms of what
we're interested in in New Zealand?

Speaker 6 (53:23):
Yeah, I think so. I think. You know, I coached
the German national team and football is huge here, soccer
and and now and now the basketball national team in
Germany is the number one national team, So there's there's
always an opportunity. And you know, I think I think
the big thing is is is putting a great product

(53:45):
on the floor in front of the fans. And I
talk about team identity all the time, and team identity
is what we feel as a group and what the
people can relate to and see, and if we can
do that, it becomes very attractive.

Speaker 14 (53:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Well, Gordon, listen, best luck and thank you very much
for taking the time out of your morning to have
a chat to us. It's Gordon Herbert, the New Breakers coach,
twenty away from six.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's international realty, a name
you can trust locally and globally.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
In the huddle of us this evening, we have Morris
Williams and Auckland councilor former National Party Minister and Jack Tame,
host of Saturday Mornings and Q and A Who's in
studio High.

Speaker 13 (54:19):
Lads Yoda Hijack, Right.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Jack, What do you make of the public sector cuts?

Speaker 13 (54:25):
I think it all depends on the detail. I think
in principle there's a really good argument to be made
for things like centralizing HR. But at the end of
the day, we don't have the detail about where these
cuts are coming from. We've had assurances from the Finance
Minister that they aren't necessarily going to affect frontline services,
but you would have to say, as a frontline figure,
it's a massive number of people to be losing their job.

(54:47):
So I think until we have the actual detail about
what is going to be cut, we're not in a
position to make that judgment.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Do you think Morrison it sounded like when I was
speaking to Brian Roach earlier, it sounds like he has
already kind of figured out in his head how this
is going to work. In which case, why aren't they
announcing the kind of bones of that.

Speaker 7 (55:05):
I'm sure they've done a very good back of an
envelope draft about where their numbers are, how they've grown
over time, where the trims need to be made, and
more importantly, the use of technology that that can really
give them some technological gains. I think I gave you
an example the other day of when we had the
ten five hundred returns come in on Plan Change one

(55:28):
twenty AETH council. We had a team of people that
had been working for weeks and it's been over four
million dollars analyzing them, and one of our counselors gave
them to an AAI bot and the bot did it
within thirty hours or twenty five hours or something, and
it costs next to a few thousand dollars. So those
new technologies that AI brings, things like clawed and things

(55:49):
like copilot within data management and processing, well, I think
change the entire structure of what an old public service
looked like before all these changes come through.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
So does that mean Morris it? Because I listened to
all of this chat about AI and just felt really embarrassed.
It was like listening to old people talking about computers
and nobody actually knew what they were talking about. And
potentially AI is over promising on what it can do,
but you sound like you're actually pretty bullish on it.

Speaker 7 (56:16):
Yeah, I think it's just got just got started and
I use it now daily. I'm using Microsoft co Pilot
to go in and analyze huge chunks of data, which
in the past I literally just spend days trying to
find a way to accumulate rows and columns and get
a trend line through them and so on. You're just
gonna ask it and it'll just come back with the solutions,
bang on, and it's in its infancy. It's a little

(56:39):
bit like watching the Right Brothers get off the ground
at Kiddie Hawk. This has got a long way to go,
but a seven four seven will be the eventual product
we produce out of AI in my view.

Speaker 13 (56:48):
Yeah, it also does like it does this Morris is
a really good job of synthesizing huge amounts of information
so you can cut down on that kind of drudgery
that is part of those kind of public service role.
But so those those tasks that are replicated time and
again over different ministries, stuff like HR. You can see
how with the use of technology you could streamline that

(57:10):
a whole lot. I still think it comes out to
where the cuts are, and still until we have detail
on exactly what the cuts are, I mean, would you.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Be prepared to give up and tire ministries.

Speaker 13 (57:18):
Though yeah, I don't see there's why there's necessarily any
reason we have to be one hundred percent committed to
specific ministries. But it depends on it depends on the
function of the ministry.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Though potentially one ministry that's CAT. I was going to
have some people who are going to be very angry.

Speaker 13 (57:31):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean this is a painful
thing one No, no, I could possibly, I think too.
That one of the interesting things. Actually, it has been
interesting to see David Seymore's comments over the last few days.
I think approaching this with compassion is important, and I
think maybe the last time they went around with the cuts,
there was this real kind of gun attitude. Well when

(57:53):
the cuts were announced at the start of this term.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Yes, this is why I don't want to waste my
compassion something that hasn't happened. It may not happen.

Speaker 13 (58:02):
Yeah, again, all the more reason why I just.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Got a compassion last time. And then we didn't actually
fire any so yeah I did. He was like, oh,
I'm so sorry to hear all these people are going
to lose their jobs.

Speaker 7 (58:11):
No one did so, but Jack's right to be skeptical.
Hither I mean, this is what we will do in
the future, and there's been too many of these announced
and then it's been a little trickle theorus.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
This is Nichola just getting the budget looking good, Isn't
it like you promise that you're going to fire all
these people by twenty twenty nine, which means Treasury adjusts
it in surplus by twenty nine.

Speaker 7 (58:30):
That's what this is A yeah, yeah, and it's election yeah,
And it's a nice feeling for the vast boke people
who aren't public servants, the sards bloated and needs to
be dealt with. I think Jack's right, the devil will
be in the detail and the actual delivery of it.
But I do think that we're on the verge of
just like when the internet. When I first went to Parliament,
we didn't have an Internet, and we didn't have emails
and anything, and the process of writing letters to people

(58:53):
and going to meetings where all your papers had to
be typed up on a typewriter and song you think
of how the Internet chained everything there in terms of
email and cellular phones came at the same time. Well, now,
AI is that next big breakthrough will change so much
how you work every day, make productivity's so much better.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Let's take a quick break. It's quarter to two.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the only
truly global brand.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Back to the Huddle, it's twelve away from Sex Morris
Williamson and Jack Jack. How excited are you that we're
going to talk about capital gains tax right now?

Speaker 10 (59:26):
So excited?

Speaker 2 (59:28):
And how sad was your little capital gains tax loving
heart to see that all the young people, the gen
z Is and the millennials in Australia hate it.

Speaker 13 (59:36):
I am, first of all, I'm not surprised. I mean
people don't like need to don't like tax. I mean
there's no doubt about that.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
You were telling me we're all ready for it now
and things have changed. Have you not made that argument?

Speaker 13 (59:46):
I think things have changed.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Do you not know Australia?

Speaker 8 (59:50):
No?

Speaker 13 (59:50):
I think, well, I think we're totally different economies. I
mean Australia has had a capital gains tax from while
they've had stamp duties for a while as well. They're
going to high top rate of England.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
And therefore, if they've already had it, and they they're
even more tax than us. If they're already used to it,
they should be totally.

Speaker 13 (01:00:02):
Fine with the no. I think the thing that maybe
will help Labour's argument going into the selection. First of all,
I feel like their policy has been focus grouped up
to the wasa up the wazoo, to the point that
they're trying to make it offend the fewest number of
people possible. Second of all, they just haven't been major
capital gains on property for years now, and I think
that if we were at a time when people were

(01:00:24):
seeing five or six percent gains every year, it would
be a different political environment. But we're not seeing that
right now. So I think there's likely to be less
opposition than there would have been a few years ago,
Which is not to say they won't be opposition. I
just think there's likely to be less.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I don't know, Morris, I reckon when Labour starts talking
about this here in the campaign, it's going to fall flat.
What do you think.

Speaker 7 (01:00:41):
I was just enjoying you two going at it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Then that was great? Can we keep a bit more
of that up?

Speaker 5 (01:00:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:00:47):
Look, I mean there's a whole lot of stuff about
capital gains, taxes, the number of people in my patch
out here are properties for one million a year ago
or so and or two years ago and now they're
worth eight hundred and fifty thousand? Do they get packed
back on that? Do we pay back for if there's
a capital loss in the end. I just think it's
a silly idea because you've got to make that many
exemptions to make it palatable. And as soon as you

(01:01:10):
make that many exemptions you end up what is it,
pay for three free doctor's visits for something a year? Yeah,
that's it. I mean it's a joke and just leave
it alone.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Yeah, totally. Now listen Morris, is it true that the
vote on raising rates in Auckland to seven point nine
percent highest ever is really close? And so close you
can't be sure this is going to pass?

Speaker 7 (01:01:30):
Yes, it's very hard of Council compared to Parliament. At
Parliament you pretty know where your numbers lie unless you
get a rogue person like me who crossed the floor
once you know you've got all your votes in a row,
and the whips just can basically call out the numbers
like that, so you're not. But at Council, every one
of the twenty are independent. Everyone's got a view of
their own everyone's got their own hobby horses about what

(01:01:52):
they think money can be going.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
But tell me if this is true. So what I'm
being told is that it's possibly ten eleven and it
will lose, like eleven against ten four. It will lose,
but Mayor Brown will rely on the independent Marti Statutory
Board members, the two of them to get it over
the line. Twelve eleven. Is that going to happen?

Speaker 7 (01:02:08):
Right, Well, well, let me tell you why that can't happen.
And I've only confirmed this very carefully to day with
legal and so on. It does go to a budget
committee with his independent Marty Statutory Board, and there may
be vote so that it does get carried by that,
but it actually then has to go to the governing
body straight after him. But we've actually scheduled to have
a governing body meeting immediately that the budget committee comes

(01:02:32):
to its conclusion. So there you only have the counselors
now and understand Marty statute, so no man offeno. So
if you actually did only get it through by one
vote because of that, you may end up losing it
by one vote. It's very hard to I've talked to
counselors today, Adiam vanidam about it. Some are in, some
are out, some are not sure. Some have got more

(01:02:52):
convincing to do. I look, I think you're better off
putting a bet on whether Nikola will make eight hundred
and seventy thousand.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
It's too high, somebody was telling me earlier.

Speaker 5 (01:03:06):
Jack.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
People are really angry about the seven point nine percent
rate rising in England, and really angry because it's funding
the CRL. Do you feel this this intensity about it?

Speaker 13 (01:03:15):
Well, I mean I don't like it. My rates feel
incredibly high at the moment, and I've looked at the
four projections for you know, relatively smaller rates cuts in
the years to come. I mean it's I've been in
the Karanngahape station, which is one of the cathedral like
stations to use me bres.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
It overbuilt.

Speaker 13 (01:03:33):
I mean, it's incredibly impressive. Now I'm no engineer, I
can't tell you if we could have made it a
whole lot cheaper, but it is incredibly impressive. I mean
the platform alone is more than two hundred meters long.
It's two rugby fields long. Yeah, ten stories under k
road they have a.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Thousand trains one day. Well that's it.

Speaker 13 (01:03:50):
But unfortunately we are paying some significant upfront costs and
my understanding of the of the of the rates bell
is that a large part of this year's rates is going.

Speaker 11 (01:03:59):
To all ofwards.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Apparently all of it. It's apparently all of it. Hey,
thank you very much, guys appreciate it. Jack Tame Morris
Williams in our hudle this evening, seven away from six.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
It's the Heather Duper c Allen Drive Full Show podcast
on my Art Radio powered by News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Yesterday, when I was on the show, when we're during showtime,
somebody texted and drew attention to the case of the
chap who had just been sentenced, and it just popped
up online during you know, between four and seven, popped
up a line on the Herald yesterday. This was the
truck driver something or other sing who had raped a
woman and Nelson and then had been had been sentenced yesterday.
What we were talking about yesterday was the fact that

(01:04:38):
he got a five percent discount for his good character.
The Sensible Sentencing Trust have like literally hot off the press.
They have just drawn attention to the fact that he
also got a discount for his children, so they say,
and it appears about his total his total sentence discount
was fifteen percent, five percent for good character, ten percent

(01:04:59):
for his kids. Now, the point that they are making
is that this is just making up stuff by judges.
They are saying Parliament never actually gave judges permission to
discount a criminal's offenses a sentence because they have children.
The activist judges, and I think I was told by
somebody that it actually came from all the way down
from the Supreme Court, that the judges have decided to

(01:05:19):
do this themselves. As I said yesterday, and I stand
by this point. You can come up with any number
of rules to say our judges can't do this, judges
can't do that, Judges can't do that, judge, and you
will be tying yourself up in not making up these rules.
What you need to deal with is the judges. There
is something fundamentally flawed if a judge thinks that all
of a sudden, you have to start discounting for all
of these like quite bizarre things. I feel sorry for

(01:05:41):
the kids, I really do. I do feel sorry for
the kids. But at this point are we going the
kids of this offender? Is protecting them is more important
than actually getting justice? For the woman that he raped,
like I think the judges have got there. I don't
know the priorities all over the show. And by the way,
speaking of stuff that's going on the moment, that what
is a Woman Bill is before Parliament today. This is

(01:06:03):
a New Zealand First's Bill. Apparently what it wants to
do is across all legislation clarify the meaning of a
woman and a female and a man in a male
as a human biological male or female. So National An Act.
I don't know if they've done it yet, but they're
going to vote on it today. A National An Act
are going to support it all the way through. Then
it's off to select committee. That process takes six months,
so probably we're not going to see it again until

(01:06:24):
after the election.

Speaker 5 (01:06:25):
But there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
If that really floated your vote, if that really spun
your wheels and got your dote, it's been before Parliament.
They're dealing with it right. We're going to deal next
with infratill and the big sell off of contact generators
with US news dogs.

Speaker 9 (01:06:37):
That'd be.

Speaker 19 (01:06:44):
If you got a trade battery then as if we
made it here, then we made it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Quire business who meets inside the Business Hour with Heather
Dupless Ellen and Mass Insurance and Investments, Your Futures in
Good Hands News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
There be evening coming up in the next hour. Milford
Asset Management's going to talk us through what's going on
with the bond yields and the interest rates spike and globally,
which we have mentioned on the show in the last
few days. Genetives Trainey will be with us after half
past and Gavin Gray is with us out of the
UK seven past six now Infratil has announced today that
it's selling about a third of its Contact Energy shares.

(01:07:25):
The infrastructure business is selling more than fifty three million
shares in total. That's five percent of contacts total issued
share capital. Contact's gone into a trading halt while this
trade takes place, and after the trade Inverttel will still
own about nine percent. Greek Smith is an investment specialist
and generator and he's with us now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
Hi, Greg, Hi, Heather.

Speaker 5 (01:07:41):
Why the seldown, Well, yeah, it's not really about Contact.
You know, they've got the state lesson a year ago
through the man of a deal. I don't think it
was ever a long term cornerstone holding. They're now selling
around about a third of it. I think basically it's
because of lots of opportunities elsehere, particularly high growth areas
like data Center's potentially renewables offshore, and this gives them

(01:08:03):
the flexibility to fund those and basically contacts not where
they see the highest returns going forward.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Yeah, and they've only committed I mean the remaining shares,
they've only committed to hold them until after the field
around about the full year results in August. Now, if
they need the money for something else, why are they
sticking around to August.

Speaker 5 (01:08:20):
Well, look, you know they haven't sort of said one
way or another, but yeah, they have for now sell
down the state from fourteen percent to nine percent. They've
got their four year results next week. They're not going
to sell down before August, as you say, so we'll
have to see how that plays out, but yeah, it
does you know, with the reduction in the state tell
you that this isn't a cornerstone position for them. Yeah,

(01:08:42):
they're selling obviously quite a big block, you know, half
a billion dollars. Basically they've made a bit of a
profit on that. They're having to take a seven percent
discount to get it across the line. So we'll have
to see where it goes from there, but certainly the
signaling is around recycled and have what have a solid
mature set and redeploying it elsewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
Yeah, and where do you think they're going to redeploy it?

Speaker 5 (01:09:01):
Well, you know, obviously data centers has been a really
great business for them, so you know, I suppose that
is a future AI as we know sort of gaining momentum.
But they've got some great renewables assets offshore as well,
so you sort of feel that where it's going to
be going, you know, sort of higher growth opportunities. And
look and all this is not sort of under undermining
the assets that Contact have, which are great in their

(01:09:24):
own right, and I'm sure there'll be plenty of buyers
for that stake, and we'll see more about that tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Now, just in general, re you know, the electricity market
and the upcoming election, how high are you rating the
chances that New Zealand first actually goes through with one
of its policies and breaks up some gent tailors.

Speaker 5 (01:09:42):
Well, yeah, it's going to give me one of the
major sort of election sticking points, is it? Along with
us arguably changes to key Wesaver. But yeah, assets cells,
you know are obviously again they've certainly been a big
election topic. I mean the government has sort of ruled
out selling down more the GENTI obviously that's been a
highly successful privatization or part privatization. New Zelm first sort

(01:10:06):
of wants to push a head further of that. So
I'm sure there'll be healthy debate not just about the
gentailes either. I'm sure there'll be plenty of debate about
other assets that could be sold and sort of fund
our fund our debts and challenges.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Yeah, thank you very much, Greg Well said, I appreciate
your time as Greg Smith investment specialist to generate. Do
you know the reason I ask about this and I
reckon we're going to spend a bit of time talking
about this policy with New Zealand fer's just because I
rate the chances of them actually going through and busting
up a Gen Taylor reasonably highly like way higher than
the B and Z. The B and Z buying the
BNZ is cocked. That's a cocked idea and everybody says

(01:10:41):
it's cocked. So I think New Zealand FERS is just
putting it out there for people who you know, for
like the smattering of people who think it's a good
idea and well we're going to buy the BNZ yay
it's nineteen eighty two or whatever, but they'll never actually
go through with it. But with the gent Taylor breakup,
this is getting support from really unlikely quarters, like Simon Bridges,
the the Auckland Chamber, and I think I saw Sam

(01:11:03):
Stubbs saying it was a great you know, like it's
some thinking people out there are going, yes, that's actually
not about idea, which means immediately gets elevated as in
the chances that they follow through on it. So keep
an eye on this one, because I don't think it's
not an insignificant chance. By the way, I'm speaking of Auckland.
The Viv Beck Heart of the City drama has got
even weirder today if it wasn't already weird, if you

(01:11:25):
haven't been following it. Viv Beck is the chief executive
of Heart of the City, which is the group that
promotes Auckland CBD, and she was stood down a wee
while agot like recently, but no one really knew why,
and there was some weird politics a play, but nobody
could really understand what just seems like they don't like
each other anymore, what's going on here? Anyway, She's taken
it to the Employment Relations Authority and it is now
ordered today that Heart of the City have to give

(01:11:46):
her her job back on an interim basis while they
then investigate those unspecified claims the races. Heart of the
City appeared to put the cart before the horse by
enforcing a drastic suspension before even really deciding what the
specific allegations against their chief executive actually were. So they've
been told they have to have a mediation meeting in
the next five days, and then they've got three days

(01:12:08):
after that to put her back in the job. Weird
a doesn't fill you with a lot of confidence. We
give you the numbers. Nz it X fifty is down
one point six four percent today, ASX fifty is down
one point one eight percent so far today, barrel of
Brent crew is sitting at one hundred and eleven US dollars.
That's down half a percentage point today. One New Zealand
dollar is worth fifty eight US cents, eighty two Australian cents,

(01:12:29):
fifty euro cents, forty four ukpns and ninety three en
It's thirteen plus six.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
It's the header Duper Clan Drive full show podcast on
my Heart Radio empowered by Newstalk ZEBBI.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
You're thinking about investing, but not sure if this is
the right time. Well, ASB is here to help, whether
it's helping you understand the different ways to invest or,
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(01:13:27):
and fees on ASB dot co dot nz slash invest.
ASB Group Investments Limited as the issuer of the asbke
we save a scheme. The scheme's product disclosure Savement is
on asb's website. Heather Brethren got in touch with US
apropos our discussion about them nuking all the cats and
dogs in Australasia yesterday, so I'm going to get you
there are some clarifications we need to make apparently, so

(01:13:48):
everybody's got the wrong end of the stick apparently, So
I'll read you that shortly. At sixteen past six, Jeremy Hutton,
Milford Asset Management is with us Elo. Jeremy, Hi Hever.
Here you go now, I'm good, thank you. As we've
discussed on the show in the last few day, bond
yields and interest rates are spiking globally, so our financial
market's starting to get a bit nervous.

Speaker 6 (01:14:06):
Yeah, they are.

Speaker 20 (01:14:07):
Getting into slightly nervous territory. And for example, the very
important thirty year US government bond that has now got
the highest interest rate attached to it since PREGFC in
two thousand and seven, so a little bit ominous there.
But the US government it doesn't help itself that much
with its astronomical budget deficit around seven percent of GDP

(01:14:31):
and with no end in sight. But you're right, it
is not unique to the US. We're seeing yield spike
all over the world linked to the Iran crisis, but
it will be putting huge pressure on government budgets everywhere,
and I think we're going to see that here in
New Zealand.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
Two.

Speaker 20 (01:14:46):
Just given the higher interest costs that this is going
to put on governments, so.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Bond prices and a lot of key we save a portfolios.
We'll be looking a little bit sad right now, will they.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Yeah, they will.

Speaker 20 (01:14:57):
So bond prices they move inversely to bond yields, So
bond yields up means bond prices down, and these are
going to be hurting in many key we save portfolios
right now. And as I mentioned, triggered by the Iran
situation and the corresponding fuel cost spike. And it's just
the amount of time that this disruption has lasted, and

(01:15:17):
the high risks of entrenched inflation in the bond market
is reflecting this. And then the Trump g meeting last
week that was potentially seen as an off ramp but
unfortunately hasn't delivered much on that front. At this point.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
What's going on with the equity market, so they're largely
shrugging these risks off.

Speaker 20 (01:15:36):
Yeah, it's pretty amazing they have so far. In direct
contrast to the bond market, the U S equity market
has obviously been in a huge run since the Iranian
ceasefire announcement last month, and it's mostly been driven by
this AI narrative in certain technology stocks, not all of them.
But the thinking here is that AI related companies are

(01:15:57):
not going to be as exposed to Middle East and
energy prices. But I think with the higher interest rates
it is gonna It's usually negative for equity markets, so
it could potentially affect them eventually. But I think it's
fair to say that there's plenty of other companies on
the US exchange, non technology ones, and the main street

(01:16:17):
US consumer I think they're going to be feeling the
pinch pretty hard right now.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Yeah, and what about New Zealand interest rates? Are we
seeing the effects there as well?

Speaker 6 (01:16:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:16:25):
We have.

Speaker 20 (01:16:26):
We've seen wholesale rates in New Zealand go up and
that's flown through into mortgage rates as well. But we
do a very important rbn Z decision next week. Doctor
Brennan's comments will be very very closely followed and she's
in a tricky spot or they are in a tricky spot.
There is really no no right answer here. And on

(01:16:46):
one hand, it would be very brave to hike the
ocr too aggressively given some of the demand and sentiment
has fallen off pretty sharply in the local economy already,
and then interest rates being hiked a is just sort
of kicking the economy it's down. But then on the
other hand, they do have to consider inflation and trying
not to get that embedded again, not helped by how

(01:17:07):
long the Iranian situation has gone on. But at the
moment the market is pricing about a twenty five chance
of a hike, so not that high. But I think
more interestingly is the four hikes that's assumed later this
year and the track that the RBNZ will put out,
so I think depending on the tone of her comments,

(01:17:28):
that could change pretty rapidly.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Jeremy, it's good to talk to you, mate, always is.
Thank you so much for the expertise. It's Jeremy Hutton,
Milford Asset Management. Jane has been in touch. She wants
to talk to us about labor and the Future Fund
and also New Zealand First and the B and Z
and the link between the two of them. Are batchit
crazy ideas. No, maybe that's unfair ideas with not enough detail,

(01:17:53):
not well thought out, trying to send a message. That's
kind of the vibe I'm getting to. Anyway, stand by
because Jenna will be with us after half past. What
will deal with the Brethren next six twenty.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Whether it's macro micro or just plain economics, it's all
on the business hour with hand the DUP, SLUR and
MAS insurance and investments, your futures in good hands.

Speaker 3 (01:18:13):
News Talk ZB here.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
They had the Brother lawyers been into your award winning
and house legal team. No, Simon, I don't think it's
I don't think we're quite at that stage of lawyers
lawyers at dawn. But the Brethren have got in touch
with us after our chat about them snuffing out the
pets in Australia and New Zealand. Yesterday, Lloyd Grimshaw from
the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church sent an email saying I've

(01:18:35):
just heard the interview with Peter Linham on Newstalk ZB
in which several incorrect, unfounded and falsified claims were made.
He does say that actually let me just read you
the statement. Let me read you the statement. It's so
it's interesting to hear what these people have to say.
Very few families in the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, which
is the exclusive Brethren, by the way, it's just what
they call themselves would keep pets, as we generally avoid

(01:18:57):
distractions from family faith in God, just television, radio or
pet ownership. That said, many families in our church own
and operate farms with extensive livestock, and others keep chickens
and ducks for eggs. It is not a test of
fellowship in our church of that. Following a traumatic incident
in which a child was attacked by a dog at

(01:19:18):
the home of a church member aka Bruce Hales, the leader,
our church's position on pets was restated to parishioners in
May twenty twenty six. This was not a new directive,
but simply a reminder of a principle that was established
some time ago, as in the nineteen sixties. The small
number of church members who have pets may be reminded
are maybe minded to rehome them with a willing neighbor

(01:19:39):
or colleague, or via working with their local animal shelter.
We are aware of untrue and distressing online commentary which
has misconstrued this as members of the Plymouth Brethren Christian
Church being told to euthanize their pets. The church would
never condone cruelty to any living creature in this position,
as being strongly reinforced to our congregation, we have the
utmost respect for all of god creations. If a member

(01:20:01):
of our church was ever cruel to animals, we would
want the matter to be dealt with by the appropriate authorities. Now,
a bunch of stuff. So first thing you need to know,
because I then emailed Lloyd back and I say, ow,
Lloyd is good to hear from you. Can you come
on the show with us? Also, what are the incorrect,
unfounded and falsified claims that were made? Now I'm assuming

(01:20:21):
it's the fact that we're automatically jumped to the conclusion
that they're going to start, you know, putting bullets in
their pets. Obviously they're being asked to rehome them first. Now,
if you follow the story of how many animals we've
gone shelters at the moment, et cetera, et cetera, you
will know there are more animals than there is demand
for rehoming. So I think it's probably fair to assume
that at some stage a pet owned by a member

(01:20:41):
of the Exclusive Brethren is going to be snuffed out
because it's just going to be nobody who's going to
take it. So that seems to be the only incorrect
thing as far as I can tell. Anyway. What I'm
more intrigued by now is if Lloyd is telling us
that they're not allowed to have television, radio or pets,
how did they know what we said, because obviously they're
going to have like a media monitoring. I don't know
if you know that. This is how it works. The

(01:21:03):
government agencies and businesses and stuff have media monitors, and
it pops up and it goes news talks. He'd be
just mentioned Spark news talks. He'd be just mentioned in
New Zealand or whatever. And then they then they go
back to New Zealand's way. They both just now they
just both got it. Well, now they've got two alerts.
Now they think that there's a problem anyway, So then
they go back and listen to it, which is probably
what the Brethren did. But did her went and listened

(01:21:24):
to it because you're not allowed to listen to the radio.
So it's all getting it's getting murkier and murkier first.
I mean they're letting their standard slip like first, they've
been having pets for the last sixty years when they
were supposed to. Now Lloyd's listening to the radio. Somebody
gonna tell Bruce at Lloyd's listening to the radio. Anyway,
Lloyd can come on the radio if he wants to
do it. At some stage.

Speaker 3 (01:21:42):
Six twenty seven, there's no business like show business.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
Has revealed that she had a secret second cancer scare
that no one knew about. The revelation has come in
her new three part Netflix documentary.

Speaker 8 (01:21:58):
I felt removed my body. I was so scared of
what was ahead of me. We didn't know if she
said ever going to be well again, but I just
wanted to be with my sister music Captain's Guy.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
In episode three of the new series, she reveals she
was diagnosed with breast cancer again only five years ago.
Now this was just before her big comeback with Padumb
Pa Dumb, and she speaks quite openly about the decision
to keep the diagnosis private. She says she wanted to
tell fans, but then she became a shell of a
person who didn't want to leave the house, and then
she just kept delaying it and delaying it, and then
eventually she was actually better again, and she still hadn't

(01:22:38):
told anyone. She says, early detection and regular checkups for
the reason she's still here today. She also discussed her
struggle with infertility and IVF. Apparently she tried really hard
a number of times to have a baby via IVF,
and she even delayed chemotherapy in two thousand and five
so she could undergo IVF treatment, but unfortunately it never
worked out the way she wanted to. Her sister, Danny

(01:22:59):
Minogue is also in the series, and she talks about
the irony of never seeing herself as a mum but
then having kids while she watches her sister struggle. The doco,
as I say, is out on Netflix, and I think
it is out right now. Gnatives Trainy is going to
be with us next on these funny little policies from
New Zealand First and Labor that aren't really well thought
out but are just supposed to send you some smoke
signals about what they mean. News talks edb.

Speaker 3 (01:23:29):
Everything from SMEs to the big corporates, the business hour
with head, the duplicy Allen and mass insurance and investments,
your futures in good hands used talks.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
Edb like Gavin Gray is going to be with us
in ten minutes because the UK are buying oil from
Russia again, which you know is funny, isn't it. So
he'll talk us through it. Here the funny how things
have changed. It's an exclusive Brethren church back in Munga Toroto.

(01:24:03):
A Brethern neighbor of mine, Ivan got kicked out of
the church because he had a radio in the cow
shed and his wife was wondering why the kids were
very keen to go help milk cheers worn out farmer
Doug Again, Doug, does that hold on a tick?

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Though?

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
So did the wife. Did the wife knack on him?

Speaker 3 (01:24:18):
Then?

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
So Ivan's out there with the kids listening to the
radio because it's not actually a sin, that's just a
made up rule. So he's out there listening to the
radio and then the wife finds out about it, and
she's the one who knacks with wives like that. Twenty
three away from seven. Now here's a question for you.
What do Labour's Future Fund and New Zealand First's plan
to buy back B and Z have in common. The

(01:24:40):
answer is they're both badly thought through policies that are
actually there. Just to make a point, Genative Trainey, the
heralds Wellington Business editor, is with us I Jane Hey Heather. Okay,
so let's start with Labor, right, they're getting flat for
having no detail on the future fund policy. What's going
on here?

Speaker 19 (01:24:54):
That's right. One of Labour's key policies, or one of
its only policies, is that it wants to take dividends
that the government receives from the investments it has in
various state owned enterprises, take those dividends, ring fence them
and then put that money into New Zealand businesses. So
they basically want to get money that would otherwise be

(01:25:15):
spent on health and education and whatever and put that
into New Zealand businesses, be that equity or debt. So
you know, when Labor was last in government, they actually
did this kind of thing already. You know, they took
their money and they lent it and they invested in
various businesses. What they're proposing to do this time is
instead of just taking the money from the government's main

(01:25:37):
pot of money, they want to specifically take the money
from the dividends they receive and invest that. So it's
just kind of creating a more complex structure, but it's
trying to make the point that they don't want to
sell state assets. In fact, they want to take the
dividends from the state assets and invest it into other
Kiwi businesses. So it's really about highlighting the fact they

(01:25:57):
are anti asset sales.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
The same thing is happening with New Zealand first and
buying back B and ZED, isn't it.

Speaker 19 (01:26:03):
Well exactly, so they're taking a much more dramatic stance
because you know, they want to borrow what I believe
to be about twenty four billion dollars and take that
to buy BE and Z to again make the point
that they don't want to sell assets, in fact, they
want to borrow money and invest it in.

Speaker 8 (01:26:19):
A bank.

Speaker 19 (01:26:19):
Similarly, Labor wants to you know, effectively borrow money and
put it into New Zealand businesses. But you know, there
are key details missing with both policies. So with Labor
we don't know how much it wants to invest in
the businesses, and with New Zealand First, it's very unclear
about you know, how much Beanz it would cost, and
how on earth it would force be and Zed's owner

(01:26:39):
nab to sell the bank because bean Z is not
for sale.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
Okay, So these two parties, and I think you'll bang
on with what's going on here, like the political message
they're trying to send. But if this is the political
message they're each trying to send, isn't there a more
simple way of doing it without embarrassing yourself with badly
thought out policies.

Speaker 16 (01:26:57):
Well?

Speaker 8 (01:26:57):
I do think so.

Speaker 19 (01:26:58):
So I believe that if you are of the view
that you should take taxpayer money or borrowed money, which
is what these things are, and invest that money into businesses,
you know, in order to keep the returns in New Zealand.
That's what they both believe. If you believe that, why
not get the Superfund and acc they have huge multi
you know, billions and billions of dollars invested huge portfolios.

(01:27:20):
Why not get them to invest a small portion of
their massive portfolios in New Zealand businesses. So the government
could give them a direction and say maybe a certain percentage,
or just give them some sort of guidance and say, actually,
would like a bit more of your money to go
back into New Zealand. Now, you know, I believe that
way you would be leaving the investment decisions in the

(01:27:42):
hands of the experts. They are very good at the
super Fund and ACC and it would take the politics
out of it, you know, just an idea, maybe not
quite as sort of complicated or sexy as the ones
that the two parties have put on the table.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
When you tell the old birds that we're going to
buy back the bn zor where that sounds cool, doesn't it?

Speaker 15 (01:28:01):
Love it?

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
I do, Jennay, thank you as always appreciated. Jane Tebstrainy,
The Herald's Wellington Business Edit. I shouldn't be unkind to
the old birds. It's not all old birds. Some old
birds are actually bang on. It's a lot of young
people think it's a good idea as well. It's mental
twenty away from seven.

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
Yether do for see Ellen, whether the Brethren or not.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
Listening to your show. They employ non brethren to do
those ungodly tasks, who then tell them how uninformed you are?
Tom uninformed? Are you a Brethren listening to the show?
So it's possible that Lloyd is not a Brethren and
he's just doing the work for them. If that's the case,
he is on some good coin because he's running podcasts
and all kinds of stuff. It's kind of like the
night Cartman at It's like you don't want to do

(01:28:38):
the dirty work, but are you then? But that doesn't
make any sense because then if your brethrens are broadly Christians,
aren't they They are like it's Jesus and stuff anyway.
So if that's the case, then then they are choosing
not to sin themselves, but they are then paying somebody
else to sin. That's not very Jesus like, is it.
Like the whole point of it was to get everybody
to not sin, not to pay Lloyd so he doesn't sin.

(01:29:00):
Was complicated, Ray Chung I said, I was going to
talk about Ray Chung. Ray Chung has hired a lawyer. Now,
if you haven't been following what's gone on with Ray Chung,
this has been both slightly amusing, slightly worrying and also
slightly instructive at the same time. So do you remember
when the flood happened in Wellington and unfortunately a bloke
from Krori went missing and eventually they found him and

(01:29:21):
of course it was too late, but he was missing
for a number of days and police decided not to
search because I think they kind of knew what had
happened and they didn't want to put people at risk
while the land was unstable and stuff. But a bunch
of volunteers decided to take it into their own hands
and go searching. And Ray Chung from Wellington City Council
was one of the people who went searching and made
kind of a virtue out of the fact that he
was out there doing the police job for them. Anyway,

(01:29:44):
the police then got in touch with the mayor Andrew
Little and complained about it. It was not an official complaint,
but they complained about what had happened. And subsequent to that,
Ray resigned this week from the chair He was the
chair of a subcommittee and he quit, and it's now
understood that that was related to a disciplinary process that
Andrew Little had initiated as a result of the police
getting in touch. Ray is now pretending, FYI for the record,

(01:30:07):
that he was not out there searching at all, but
that he had turned up in order to help to
tell them to call off the search. Whatever, Ray, we
saw what you did, because we were all watching at
the time anyway, it is now understood that those concerns
relayed by the police related to Chung's conduct towards the
officer in charge of the search and to turning up
to a location alleged on social media to be connected

(01:30:29):
with the case. People have now been asking, of course,
questions of both Andrew Little and rach hung about this.
Andrew's refusing to say anything. Ray is refusing to say anything,
and I think what you can take from that is
that they've struck a deal that they're going to deal
with this like this and no one's going to talk
to the media about it. And Ray said he was
not allowed to talk to the media because he would
get in trouble with both the mayor's office and his lawyer,

(01:30:51):
who said who he said was costing him a lot
of money, which is probably true. What I would say
about this is that this is a case of a
little getting the discipline under control at that council. Because
I don't know if you recall, but when it was
Tory who was in charge, was Ray was kicking up
BOPSI dye the whole time, and he was causing all

(01:31:11):
kinds of trouble. No, no sooner is Andrew there, Ray
is stump behaving himself, resigned as not talking to anyone,
so Andrew knows what he's doing. So yet another reason
for Wellington to be grateful for Andrew. Right, We're off
to the UK. Next News Talk's edb Ever.

Speaker 3 (01:31:26):
It's to do with money. It matters to you. The
Business Hour with Heather Duplicy, Allen and Mas Insurance and investments,
Your futures in good hands.

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
News Talks, edb Graham sent me an email disagreeing with
me quite vehemently, making some very good points actually on
the AI, so I'm going to get to that before
the end of the show. It's thirteen away from seven
and Gavin Gray are UK Correspondence with us. Hello, Gavin, Hi,
that right? What's this about the UK taking Russian fuel?

Speaker 16 (01:31:53):
Yep, a big U turn for the UK.

Speaker 21 (01:31:57):
It has decided that it will loosen strict sanctions on
refined into diesel and jet fuel in third countries. So
those are predominantly going to be India and Turkey. Both
those countries take oil from Russia and refine it. Now,
in the past we haven't bought it because we don't
want to prop up the war machine that Russia has
going on in Ukraine, but that looks like things are changing,

(01:32:20):
and that is because, of course the effective blockade that
the key straight of Horman's waterway. Since the start of
the US Israel war with Iran, we have seen jet
fuel prices in Europe more than double. That has calmed
down a bit since the war started, but they're still
around half higher, and UK pump prices continue to rise.
The rac Motori organization this week said the average price

(01:32:44):
of unleaded petrol here roughly comes in at about three
dollars fifty eliter. That's the highest since the war started,
and they predicted it's going to go much higher in
the following week.

Speaker 16 (01:32:55):
So that's why the government's done it.

Speaker 21 (01:32:57):
But I have to say this is a complete, you know,
verse of what they've been suggesting in the past. Indeed,
America has already loosened the restrictions and it got criticized
around the world, but strangely not by the UK. And
now the French president Emmanual Micron said the straight of
hornmu shutdown quote in no way justifies lifting the sanctions
on Iran. Ukraine's president says that every dollar paid for

(01:33:20):
Russian oil is money for the war.

Speaker 2 (01:33:22):
Given what's the update with this railway line the eighties two?

Speaker 16 (01:33:26):
It is an absolute disaster.

Speaker 21 (01:33:29):
There's some rude descriptions I could use, but I won't
and I'm afraid it just seems to get worse. So
originally this was due to be an amazing high speed
rail network HS two which would collect London to Birmingham
and then on to Leeds and Manchester. And right from
the start it was beset with problems. But it was

(01:33:49):
supposed to be ready this year. It won't be ready
for at least a decade. It was initially estimated to
cost some seventy billion New Zealand dollars. It's now said
to be costing near two hundred and forty billion New
Zealand dollars. It was due to run to Leeds and Manchester.
It's now going to stop in Birmingham in the Midlands.

(01:34:11):
It was due to run at three hundred and sixty
kilometers an hour, It's now going to run at three
hundred and twenty to save money. And it's a litany
of disaster and it still isn't ready. And this government
has given an update predominantly blaming previous administrations, mostly the
Conservative Party for how it was allowed to get out

(01:34:33):
of hand, and accuses the management team of High Speed
Too of adopting what it called a fortress mentality, becoming
cheerleaders themselves for the cause of high speed rail. But
either way, I'm afraid this has just shown that we
are not good at infrastructure in this country. And anytime
somebody gives you a quote and the taxpayers picking up
the bill, you probably need to triple it.

Speaker 5 (01:34:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
Really, it's the same thing that happens here in New Zealand.
There's got to be a pettern now, Gevin, what's Fugie's
mate's up to.

Speaker 21 (01:35:01):
Well, this is a very odd tale that's gone on
for some considerable time with a friend and business partner
that she's had called Manuel Fernandez. He's a former soldier
and he wanted to start up a lifestyle app called
the Vouche. However, it failed. Fergie was an investor to
the tune of one hundred and ten thousand New Zealand
dollars we think, but she was also an ambassador for

(01:35:24):
the company. Now it's being reported that although this lifestyle
app has failed in the sort of chaos as it were,
of the last few weeks of its existence, when.

Speaker 16 (01:35:36):
It was beginning to fail.

Speaker 21 (01:35:37):
One of the workers claims that he was effectively warned
that he was breaking royal protocols and hacking into emails.
It's suggested those were Sarah Ferguson's emails and that the
worker effectively therefore could have the highest penalty to pay
because of breaches to royal security. Now that work had

(01:36:00):
disputes this going on, so has never hacked anything in
to do with Sarah Ferguson, and it's all a bit
of a put on job. But I have to say
that the actual instance again doesn't look good on Sarah
Ferguson and who she chooses. Though I must stress that
the vousch and it's found in Manuel Fernandez, deny any wrongdoing.
They deny that they ever put any pressure on this

(01:36:23):
on this gentleman. And well we find out yet more
about Sarah Ferguson's business dealings.

Speaker 2 (01:36:30):
Interesting Gvin, thank you very much appreciate it, Gavin Gray UK,
corresponding to check you in in two days. By the way,
Dougs emailed again or tixt again. Not sure what was
the wife who knicked on the radio, So we may
have been falsely wrongly implicating her beginningain she wouldn't know
what she's not listening away from Semon.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
It's the hitherto per se Alan Drive Full Show podcast
on iHeartRadio powered by Newstalk Zibby.

Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
Hither leading the truth get in the way of a
headline here, but the New Zealand super found and Acy
have been investing hundreds of millions of dollars for decades
in New Zealand companies via direct capital private equity funds.
You just need to do a quick Google search, Glenn,
thank you. Now here's the email from Graham Heather. Your
skepticism about Nikola Willis's AI comments reflects a failure on
your part to appreciate just how capable current AI already is,

(01:37:18):
not some future version, but tools available right now today.
The public service is actually one of the most AI
susceptible environments. You could find a huge proportion of those
fifty five thousand jobs involved reading documents, writing briefings, processing applications,
and making rule based eligibility decisions. These aren't edge cases
for AI. They are precisely what large language models do well.

(01:37:39):
Willis's own example of the Emergency Department AI scribers and
a glimpse of the future. It's already deployed and already
freeing up staff time, which I think is fair actually
from Graham, because if you listen to Tammapaultucker talking about
what they're doing with the AI at DOC, that is
exactly what they're doing. They're just getting AI to run
through a whole bunch of these things and go yes no, yes, no, yes, no,
yes no. Only that's the problem then you get a
human involved. But for the most part, AI can actually

(01:38:01):
make that determination on its own, and it's really not
that hard. So Graham, you make a fair point, and
I stand somewhat corrected. My problem is I'm not entirely sure.
And look, I do believe most of them being meant
not most, but there would be a big proportion of
the public service who just sit there twiddling their thumbs,
reading stuff and saying yes, no, yes, no, because I mean,
it is like it's the nineteen eighties in there and
it's terrible, just gliding on. But I don't know what proportion,

(01:38:24):
So it's hard to judge how many of them we
can sort of, you know, replace with AI. Anyway, By
the way, Paul Goldsmith has finally changed the government's branding,
so it says New Zealand Government first and then tech
a one a Dunga or alder or a second. So
if that was winding you up, you could stop being
wound up by it.

Speaker 13 (01:38:41):
It's moving out. Anthony's Song by Billy Joelder players out tonight.
So the editor and director John Ottman, he was one
of the editors on the recent Michael Jackson biopic that
just came out. He's going to be directing Billy and Me,
a biopic, a feature film chronicling the formative years of
Billy Joel. A bit of a twist with this one.
Billy Joel really doesn't want it to happen. One of

(01:39:02):
his legal representatives has said, Billy Joel has not authorized
or supported this project in any capacity and any attempt
to move forward with it would be legally and professionally misguided,
which kind of makes me want to see it more,
because what does not want me to see? All the
boot Yeah, on the other hand, it's probably just a
boring thing where they didn't pay him enough money. And
the other problem he's not going or he's made it
clear that he's not going to license the music rights

(01:39:24):
for it. So can you do a Billy Joel biopic
where you can't actually play any of his songs and
expect people to buy tickets to it? That's possibly going
to be true.

Speaker 16 (01:39:32):
You get Ai to go.

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
Can you make this sound a little bit like Billy
Joel but not enough so it sounds.

Speaker 13 (01:39:37):
Like oh yeah, and then you end up in court
like the National Party did with Eminem Good try with
that one.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
It's legal. It's pretty legal.

Speaker 5 (01:39:43):
Have you do?

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
You know what age they cut it off? It's just
the formative years.

Speaker 10 (01:39:47):
Oh yeah, you hang on.

Speaker 13 (01:39:47):
I think it says here his career up to his
breakthrough deal with Columbia Records in nineteen seventy two.

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
Oh no, because these heaps are drinking in the eighties
and nineties was and then like booze driving and stuff.

Speaker 13 (01:39:58):
That's clearly not what they were about.

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
Oh I'm not going to see all of that stuff.
All right, anyway, thank you answers. I'd probably be interested
in ability. He's pretty great, isn't he.

Speaker 13 (01:40:07):
It's pretty great, but without any of the music, just.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
It would be weird without the music. Let's be honest,
all right, See you tomorrow

Speaker 1 (01:40:37):
For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, Listen live to
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