Gareth Williams: Smart Energy Alliance spokesperson says LNG terminal doesn't address 'real challenges'

A new alliance has formed to oppose the proposed LNG facility including groups like Master Electricians, Consumer New Zealand, and the Sustainable Energy Alliance.

Smart Energy Alliance spokesperson Gareth Williams told Heather du Plessis-Allan, "our view is that it's very short-sighted, that it doesn't really address the real challenges that New Zealand's electricity system faces."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now there is more opposition towards the proposed LNG terminal.
A new alliance has formed to oppose the venture. It
includes groups like Master Electricians, Consumer New Zealand and the
Sustainable Energy Alliance. Gareth Williams is the chief operating officer
at SIANS and spokesperson for Smart Energy Alliance and is
with us now, Hi, Gareth, Yeah, Okay, what is your

(00:20):
problem with the LERG terminal.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Our view is that it's very short sighted, that it
doesn't really address the real challenges that New Zealand's electricity
system faces. And what we're asking for is the government
to step back and really look do a proper analysis
of all of the issues that we face. And we
believe that the answer is a whole portfolio of renewable

(00:44):
energy type solutions to solve both the dry year issue,
increasing electricity demand and remove our alliance on imported fossil fuels.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Okay, so what is you if this is not the
fix for the electricity sector that we need. What is
the fix?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, the fix is really a very well thought out
energy strategy, which is something New Zealand has really been
crying out for for forever. We don't have a fully integrated,
joined up energy strategy that looks at all of these issues.
So from our point of view that the fix does
involve accelerating renewable generation both at utilities scale and on

(01:26):
people's roofs, both businesses and homes. It involves energy efficiency,
so getting better at using less electricity. It involves getting
off gas as fast as we can, and there are
a whole lot of solutions to that, including hot water,
heat pumps, solar batteries, electric vehicles. So from our point
of view, the answer is a portfolio of all of

(01:48):
these solutions that are sitting there able to be used.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Okay, let's go through three of your ideas. The first
idea is getting the domestic users off gas. It's a
fair point, but how much, and presumably it's to preserve
what is what we do not use for the commercial users,
But how much how much domestic users actually use? Trifling?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Won't it? It's not trifling? It is it is a
few percent, But in this in this context, even a
few percent makes a difference.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
And that is an enormous cost for a household who
funds that.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
So one of the key solutions to this is access
to long term cheap finance, and the work that Rewiring
at R has done on this indicates that with long
term finance, you know, customers can save two thousand dollars
a year including the repayment costs for the capital costs
that's involved. So that's what needs to unlock the getting

(02:48):
customers gas. And it's not just homes, it is businesses.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
So we're talking about government grants or loans rather than
government loans. Rather than government grants.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Not necessarily governments, I mean one of there's a couple
of ideas around that. I mean, one's definitely government low
cost finance. The other is rate space finance where local
government can provide long term finance. And the third option
is for the electricity companies to provide finance. They also
have access to long term relatively cheap finance. And so's

(03:21):
there's multiple ways that could be done that wouldn't impose
costs on tax.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Pay Okay, the solar panels on the roofs, who pays
for that? Because would that be subsidized?

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Again, we dislike the word subsidy subsidies. So there's two
things to unlock solar that have proven successful internationally. One,
again is that access to long term cheap finance subsidies
isn't the right way to look at it. What we
are talking about here is providing incentives that are reflective

(03:50):
of the value that it delivers to New Zealand by.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
But we are talking about businesses government money given to people. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Not, it's not so much given to them. It is
money that the government is going to be spending in
some way anyway that The other dimension to it is
that it drives an industry. So our calculations indicate that
the money that the government will be providing to incentivize
customers to put solar on their roofs, they would more

(04:21):
than make up an additional GSD and tax returns from
a growing industry. And this short term you know, like
this doesn't have to be forever. It is around creating momentum,
which we've seen in Australia and Hungary and other countries
now that have you know, once the industry start, they
accelerate and the incentives can be reduced.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay, managing our hydro lakes better, what do you mean
by that? Is that allowing like a Lake Punakhaki situation
or are we talking about an onslow? We were building
something else altogether.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
We're talking about using our existing resources better in conjunction
with accelerating renewable So what we're talking about is taking
the load off the hydro lakes when it's not needed
through acceleration of solar generation particularly but also in energy efficiency,

(05:16):
and then during dry year risk periods, holding back the
use of hydro so that it is available when it's needed.
So it's making I mean, what we are advocating or
pointing out is that New Zealand has a massive battery
system in New Zealand already with its hydro lakes, and

(05:36):
by taking the load off it when it's not really
needing to be used, that removes the dry year risk.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
All Right, hey, listen, it's been good to talk to you.
Thank you, Gareth appreciated. Gareth Williams, Smart Energy Alliance spokesperson.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
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