John Ambler and Duane Emeny: NZ Jet owner and Air Chathams CEO on the calls to reform the Civil Aviation Authority

A private jet company boss has voiced concerns about what could happen if there's not reform at the Civil Aviation Authority - and he's taken these worries to the Government.

NZ Jet owner John Ambler has heard concerns from former and current CAA staff about the organisation's culture. 

He says it includes an erosion of expertise, and operators fearing they'd be punished for raising concerns. 

"We are losing experienced people within the civil aviation department at a great rate...it's alarming. And obviously, if these people within the unit aren't able to speak up for fear of reparations - what sort of system have we got?"

Meanwhile, Air Chathams CEO Duane Emeny says there was need for change three years ago, and that Minister Simeon Brown acted quickly. 

"He got quite a few new board members in, the whole leadership team in the CAA changed and, actually, we can sit here today and say, quite confidently, that we are seeing some of the good and positive outcomes of those changes."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, the owner of a large private jet company has
warned the government that a major plane crash could happen
if the issues at the Civil Aviation Authority are not
sorted out. Two years ago, whistleblower is within the CAAA
told The Herald that the organization had a toxic culture,
the director was asleep at the wheel, and changes being
made at the time could lead to accidents. Now, New
Zealand Jet co owner John Ambler wrote to the Associate

(00:21):
Transport Minister James Meagher with similar concerns at the end
of last month. He's with us now, Hi John, Hi,
how are you?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Helly?

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Very well? Thank you? So what do you reckon is
going to cause the crash?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I think, just to put the context into into reality,
I never stated that I believe there's an accident about
to happen. I said to Minister Mega that industries screaming
out for you to basically wake up. What is it
going to take before you listen to people that are

(00:51):
like myself a voice saying we need to have an
independent review to see what's going on. So the headlines
are inaccurate to what I've actually said.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
So let me read this you. So for the Herald
says the boss of a multimillion dollar private jet company
has told the government he believes a major fatal airline
crash could occurve. It doesn't act.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
That's not accurate, that's not accurate. No, what I've said
to Ministermiga is that what is it going to take
for you to listen to industry. Is it going to
be an accident? Okay, because sorry, Karen, if.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
It's not a fatal crash you think is the worst
case scenario, What do you think is the worst case scenario?

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, ultimately, in all aviation related issues, in the Swiss
cheese model, every whole lines up, and we're doing that
with an incident. In the worst case scenario is a crash.
But that's not what I'm pointing out. That the issues
that are within Civil Aviation, as you've said, is the
cultural issues are still very much toxic. We are losing

(01:56):
experienced people within the Civil Aviation Department a right that
it's alarming and obviously if these people that are within
the unit aren't able to speak up for fear of reparation,
you know what, what sort of system have we really got?

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Why are we losing people?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
That's a good question for I guess the Chair of
Civil Aviation and the director himself.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Do you have a theory as to it?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yes, because the cultures, as I said, is toxic and
people people with people with aviation experience aren't been listened
to that you know that, I believe the change in
direction that has happened since two thousand and four, there
are a lot of positives, there's there's a lot of
good things happening, but the lack of actual representation within

(02:53):
the Civil Aviation Department from experienced people is concerning.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Okay, So if there's one thing that you want them
to change, like, then if they're not listening, what is
the thing that you want them to change?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
I believe that that really what needs to happen which
hasn't happened, is an independent review and allowing people within
the department to be able to be speaking up and
talking about what they believe should be done. Sure that
is you know, the word writing comes to mind.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Okay, John, thank you very much for your time. Appreciated
is John Ambler, Jet and Z co owner Listenings. That
was Dwayne Emoni, who is the CEO of there Chathams.
Hello Dwayne, welcome.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Back there are you.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, good? Thanks mate. Do you agree with John?

Speaker 4 (03:44):
It's not it's not our current experience, Heather. What I
would say is, you know, we've had a bit. We've
been around four years. We've had a rollercoaster with the regulator.
There's been some good times and some bad times. I
would say three years ago it wasn't much fun and
we felt that they needed to be changed. And I
think the good thing is that the minister agreed. It

(04:06):
was Simon Brown who had the transport portfolio back then,
and he.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Acted quite quite fast.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
He'd got quite a few new board members in the
whole leadership team in the CIA has changed, and actually
we can sit here today and say quite confidently that
we are seeing some of the good and positive outcomes
of those changes. And I think the important thing too
is the CIA know that everything's not perfect, there's still

(04:33):
work to do, but they want to work with industry
on that. So you know, I was listening to what
John was saying, and you know, I feel for him because,
like I say, it can be a bit of a
rollercoaster with the regulator at times, and we're not always
going to agree. But I do think that the pathways
for participants and airlines into the regulator to voice their concerns.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
It's a lot stronger than it has been.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
So you would be listened to. Yes, absolutely all right, Joan,
thanks very much, mate, really appreciate it. DWAINEYMNI Chatham CEO.
You go draw your own conclusion from there.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
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