Judith Collins: Attorney-General on the planned inquiry into the Tom Phillips case

Agency actions regarding the children of fugitive Tom Phillips are going under the microscope, with a report due back mid-next year. 

Phillips was on the run nearly four years, ending only when he died in September in a police shootout.

Attorney-General Judith Collins says questions will be asked about what Government agencies did to protect the children, what they knew - and did or didn't do.

"In this situation, what we can look into is what the Government agencies knew, what they did, and what they didn't do. Should they have done more?"

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good afternoon. The government has announced a public inquiry into

(00:02):
the Tom Phillips case. It'll be led by Justice Simon
Moore Casey in private without public hearings, to protect the children,
and it will investigate where the government agencies like the police,
took all practicable steps to protect the children and get
them back due to the Collins Is the Attorney General
Hi Judith Oh, Hi Heather, does the fact that you've
called this inquiry suggest that you do not think or
you're not sure that they took all practical steps?

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Well, I, like many other members of the public, would
like to know exactly what was done and when, and
whether or not there were other things that government agencies
could have done. And it's not just about that, but
once says children get a bit older, they should know
for certain exactly what was done to save them from
the situation. And at the moment, like most of us

(00:48):
were in the dark on it.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
There seems to be a little bit of upset as
to why this inquiry is not looking into the courts.
What's going on.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
There the courts themselves?

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Well, it's the family court.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Because the family Court we have this concept and principle
of committee between the court's, parliament and the government where
we don't go into individual cases, and we can't because
we don't live in a country where governments and politicians
get involved in individual cases. But the other thing is
too is that you know, so if someone wanted to,

(01:20):
if we want to have an investigation to the family
courts and how they operate, that would be that could
take years and it would also not be about one
particular case. In this situation. What we can look into
is what government agencies knew, what they did, what they
didn't do, should they have done more, was there anything?

(01:41):
It will in fact, of course, look at their what
they told or what they gave to the family court
as well. But what it won't do is we're not
going on some witch hunt in the family court.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Now, how are we going to talk about this in
the outcome of this, especially re the police, when the
most important information remains suppressed, probably will always be suppressed.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
I think the most important information deals with the children
and what effects what's happened these last four years have
had on them, and I think that has to be suppressed.
And I'm sure that you'll agree with me that they.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
No, I'm not arguing about that, but if we can't
even like, if the public can't even be told that information,
how can we properly assess whether the police have done
the right thing here?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, I think leave it to the inquirer. I believe
that the terms of reference are wide enough for the
inquiry to look at what the police did, but what
other agencies did? What did it all? Rung and Tamariki,
the Ministry for Children, what any other government agencies involved,
What did they do and what they didn't do? I

(02:50):
think that is the right thing for this inquiry. And
I realize it's really difficult for people because they're used
to a lot of these sorts of inquiries being in public.
There are very extensive suppression orders in place in the
courts and we cannot disregard those, and particularly when they're
there in the interests of children, we simply cannot do

(03:13):
anything about that. And the alternative is we wait for
years and years and years and don't actually know what
the answers are to what could have been done better?

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Judith, just on another subject, where are we at with
the sacking of Andrew Costa?

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, the issue with mister Costa is with the Public
Service Commissioner. I obviously don't get involved in that and
can't and it is a matter between himself and the Commissioner.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Judah, thank you very much, appreciate your time, Judith Collins,
the Attorney General.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
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