Liam Rutherford: NZEI lead negotiator on the union taking legal action over teacher pay deals

A legal battle is looming over primary teacher pay deals.

The NZEI's taking action over the Government letting non-union teachers accept individual pay offers.

The Public Service Commissioner yesterday confirmed boards can directly approach about 10,000 teachers, after the union’s rejected three recent pay deals.

Lead negotiator Liam Rutherford says they're frustrated and angry about the timing.

"This is a break from decades of tradition, where we settled the collective agreement and then teachers that aren't members of the union get that passed on through an IEA."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now let's talk about what's going on with the unions.
The Primary Teachers' Union has threatened urgent legal action after
yesterday's announcement from the Public Service Commission. Brian Roach told
us yesterday he's offering pay rises of up to four
point seven percent to non union teachers despite the fact
that negotiations with the union is still ongoing.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
We did this after careful consideration and on the basis
of equity between two categories of teachers, the unionized group,
and we're fully engaged with them and the non unionized group.
The two are separate and distinct, and that's how I
view them.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Liam Rutherford is the NZDI teacher leader and he is
with us.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Now, Hi, Liam Curder here the great to be there.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Thanks for joining us. Mate. Listen, have you filed the
legal action yet?

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yes, so we have our filed legal action to bring
about urgent facilitation, which I mean it's something that we
shouldn't have to do. I mean, there should be some
willingness from the government to come to the table around facilitation.
And it's a shame that yesterday's our announcement has gotten
in the way.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Isn't that facilitation something you did last.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Week notes, So we had mediated bargaining. Facilitation is a
bit of a step up where both sides present their
presentations to a third party who writes an opinion as
to what should happen. It isn't an uncommon thing when
you do get to a challenging part of bargaining, and
that's what we're wanting to do with the Ministry of

(01:28):
Education now.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Okay, So when Brian Roach told us that he believed
it was an injunction, you were filing it's not an injunction.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
No, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
You are not trying to prevent non union teachers from
getting a pay rise.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
No, we are incredibly frustrated and angry with the timing
of the move. This is a break from decades of
tradition where we settle the collective agreement and then peaches
that aren't members of the union get that passed on
through an IA. The challenge, and I think the frustration
and anger that we've heard from teachers over the last

(02:04):
twenty four hours is that they're now going to be
sitting in staff rooms where you've got some haves and
some have nots. And given the kind of collegial and
collaborative nature of teaching. That's where people's anger and frustration
comes from.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, but I mean there is already frustration. I'd imagine
in staff rooms, don't you think where some of the
teachers being on the individual agreements waiting for this union
stuff to be wrapped up, we'll be feeling a little
grumpy at union members for the fact that it's being held.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Up for so long.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, we kind of hear two different things around that.
One is that this isn't a break from tradition. This
is how things have always worked and so it is
a normal within the education system up until now. But
what we're really hearing from teachers, and in the last
twenty four hours it's been nuts, is that there's frustration
that we're now having to deal with offers that actually

(02:54):
aren't going to address the issues going on. Primary teachers
in this round of bargaining put a great deal of
intent behind what it is that they were asking for,
because there are genuine issues. The ministry's own data shows
that we don't have enough teachers to be able to
be able to meet the needs that we currently have,

(03:15):
and so the things that we're talking about through negotiations
are about how we are going to be able to
attract and retain teachers. And when I say retain teachers,
I specifically mean now experienced tea teachers, because those are
the ones that are going to be the ones carrying
the load when it comes to implementing the government's change
management a gender around the new curriculum.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
So is the government right in saying that thirty percent
of primary teachers are not unionized?

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Technically correct? But a large group of those are part
time teachers or day to day relievers. If you walk
into any school, the overwhelming majority of full time classroom
teachers will be members.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Of the union.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
What is that about eighty percent?

Speaker 3 (04:01):
We don't go we don't go into specific numbers, but
but yet the overwhelming majority of full time classroom teachers
will be members of the union.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
How does the proportion at the moment compare to the
proportion historically Because I'm surprised that the number of teachers
who are not unionized.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, like I said, I mean the people that are
typically part time or day to day relievers. And so
have the data do you know? I don't have the
data around whether or not the number of relievers and
part time teachers are growing, and it totally, though we
are seeing a number of full time teachers may be

(04:41):
dropping a day or week and they cite things like
like a workload and wanting to have a better work life,
bad balance. And that's a real shame because that's a
direct impact on the kids in those classes who are
now juggling to tea teachers. But it is genuinely an
issue with God. Enough people wanting to become teachers, and

(05:02):
we seem to have an inability to hold onto them.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
All right, Liam, listen, best of luck with all of this.
Thank you for your time, Liam Rother for the NZDI
Teacher Leader. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen
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