Perspective with Heather du Plessis-Allan: What did Jacinda's latest testimony really tell us?

Jacinda Ardern is back in the news after transcripts of her behind-closed-doors testimony to the Royal Commission were published by the New Zealand Herald today.

While the contents of the testimony contain few surprises, the transcript is notable as much for what it omits as for what it includes.

There are no expressions of regret, no apologies, and no acknowledgment of wrongdoing - an outcome that may not shock those who followed the Government’s approach during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The exchanges themselves are largely evasive, particularly on the issue of vaccine mandates. At one point, the Commission chair told Ardern it would be remiss not to ask whether she had divided the nation. Ardern responded by asking, “In what regard?” - a reply that struck many as disingenuous, given the scale of public opposition at the time, including prolonged protests directly outside her Beehive office.

The testimony also reflects the familiar style critics associate with her leadership: lengthy explanations and abstract language. When asked whether she had regrets, Ardern responded that “regret is a curious word,” avoiding a direct answer.

The timing of the transcript’s release is striking. Just days earlier, a documentary about Ardern debuted on Netflix and has since attracted renewed public attention, earning an Emmy nomination and sparking fresh debate about her legacy. Conversations about the film are occurring across the country, with many viewers reporting mixed emotions after watching it.

Some New Zealanders have expressed discomfort about the animosity directed toward Ardern after her resignation and her subsequent move overseas, saying the country should aspire to be more tolerant.

Others argue that accountability remains a fundamental principle of public office. They note that Ardern stepped down before facing voters in the next election, declined to give public evidence to the Royal Commission, and has largely avoided direct public scrutiny since leaving office.

The one form of accountability she has not escaped, critics say, has come in personal encounters with members of the public, where she has faced blunt and often hostile feedback - a factor some believe contributed to her decision to leave the country.

Whether public sentiment toward Ardern would have softened had she chosen to testify openly before the Commission is impossible to know.

What is clear, however, is that her private testimony has done little to change hardened views. For many observers, it reads as more of the same careful language and deflection that characterised her responses throughout the pandemic.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We need to talk about Jasinda r Dern because her
testimony behind closed doors to the Royal Commission has been
revealed in the Herald today. Now there is nothing particularly
newsworthy in it, it is more noteworthy because of what
is not in the transcript. There is no regret, no apologies,
no sorries, which I suppose you wouldn't expect, right, because
this is not unusual from the crew who ran our

(00:21):
lives during COVID. The exchanges are pretty much as evasive
as you would expect them to be, Like this one
about the mandates. The Commission chair says, it would be
remiss of me not to put this question to you.
You divided the nation. Jacinda r Dern replies, in what regard?
I mean she knows it. What regard? There was a
bloody protest below her office in the beehive. Then there's

(00:44):
the over explaining that we used to there is the
flannel that we used to like. When she was asked
if she has regrets, since she replies regrets a curious word.
It's interesting timing that the transcript is in the news
today because, of course, the now Emmy nominated documentary hit
Netflix just a few days ago. And it's got people
discussing her again. I bumped it to someone at the
beach over the Easter weekend who said they just watched

(01:06):
it the night before and wanted to discuss it. I
have a friend on maternity leave who's halfway through it
and wanted to discuss it. And if you like me
and you watch it, you're going to have mixed emotions.
I think after watching it, I'm not proud of New
Zealand for driving that family out of the country. I
would like to think that we're better than that. But
at the same time, like we said yesterday about Kanye
West being pulled from the festival. In the UK, accountability

(01:28):
really matters. It's an important principle and Jacinda has dodged
accountability all the way through since she quit before she
lost the election. She refused to give public evidence to
the Royal Commission. I think, though, the accountability she hasn't
managed to avoid is when she bumps into ordinary kiwis
on the street and they tell her what they think,
and so she had to leave the country. Now we

(01:49):
will never know if things would be less hostile towards
Jacinda if she just fronted up to that inquiry. And public,
rather than giving this evidence behind closed doors. We will
never know because it will never happen. Tell you what
we can be sure of. Even if she'd done, it
would just be more of the same flannel, wouldn't it?
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(02:12):
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