A survivors' advocate is welcoming the Government's proposal to scrap 'good character' sentencing considerations for sexual offenders.
National's Justice spokesperson Paul Goldsmith has announced the party will prohibit the practice at sentencing.
He says the assessments only serve the interests of offenders and rarely the victims.
Chief Victims Advisor Ruth Money says it's a problem for victims to sit in court and hear these 'good character' assessments.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Heather dup c L nine two nineteen is the text number,
standard text fees applied. Barrysoapa is going to talk us
through that. Love to hear what you've got to say
about it. I suspect most people love this idea anyway,
Onto something else. The National Party says if it is
re elected, it will scrap good character references for sexual
offenders facing sentencing. Now, this is where a sex offender's
families or associates testify about their good character, and then
(00:23):
the judge takes those references into account when they decide
on a sentence. Samira Ta Garvey from the Law Association
told Mike this morning they're getting rid of these references.
Not a good idea.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
The government is trying to tell the public that good
character reference makes a massive difference in terms of sentencing.
That's far from the truth. Judges already done put a
lot of emphasis on that good character reference unless they
see it as completely relevant.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Ruth Money is the chief victim's advisor and is with us. Hi, Ruth, Hello,
why do we need this.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Well, because it's a farce. You know you are a victim.
Someone has been found guilty or is pled guilty to
sexually abusing you. And let's remember that half, almost half
of the sexual violence in New Zealand is perpetrated against
our children. Never the case for any sexual offending. I
can just go to the golf club and get old
(01:15):
mate to write me a character reference which is completely
irrelevant and actually not based on anything that the crown
or the police have told him. He's just written me
as his mate, a letter.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
In such case, if it's just a letter from your
golfing buddy, the judge is going to discount it and
they're going to throw it away.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well you would hope so. But there have been a
number of cases where sexual offenders do get good character
references and get discounts for the good character references. And
what I have been saying in my advice is it's
an oxymoron to have a person of good character rapeer child.
(01:56):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Give me an example of a discount.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Well, anything can anything can be applied. So what will
happen is no.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
No, give me an example of where somebody has got
a discount that you're aware of.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Oh, I'm not sure I can name things because there
were suppressions around those cases. But what I can say
even last week, for example, with the Kerrang Hackey road case,
where three people had assaulted a backpacker. There were good
character references, there was about a twenty percent discount given.
Now that wasn't all good character references, but everything was
(02:32):
combined to give that person a twenty percent discount.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
What was the most people was a portion of the
discount because of good character.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yes, I understand that is exactly what happened.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
You understand. Look, I'm pressing you on this ruth because
when I I've called around about this and I can
get no evidence that this is happening, that there are
I can't get, and even talking to you, it's all couched.
And I unders stand I can't talk about it suppression.
I have no clear example, and I'd love one. I
have no clear example where a really bad person has
(03:07):
done a very bad thing and then because their mate
has written them a good character reference, they've got a discount.
So are we sure this is happening or are we
just Yes, we're making up a policy for something that
isn't a problem.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
No, we are not making an example. For a start,
it is a problem for victims and survivors to sit
in a court and hear what a good bloke that
person is.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
And it's not that is not a good that's not
a good argument. Give me an example of a discount
that has been applied for good character.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I'm actually just trying to pull up my readings document.
I'm really sorry.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
No, that's okay. Would you like listen rather than making
you do this on air, because it's not fair on you.
Would you would you like to maybe email it through
to us or come back to us later in the show,
because the show obviously goes on until seven, so we
can address it later on.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Well, I am super happy to do it in the
second we.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
While you're doing that, can can you can I just
ask you this question. If a judge is given good character, right,
if a judge's got somebody with a letter or verbally
making a reference, are they obligated to take it into
account or can they choose to dismiss it?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Sorry, I'm just trying to find my No, they can
choose to dismiss it, so they're not obligated to consider
what has been presented in front of them. But what
what the process is is there's no due diligence given
for anybody to write those things so a defense lawyer
or has or her client can procure a good character
(04:45):
reference which can be better in which can yep, and
the judge may or may not consider it.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Okay, have you found you thinks?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Okay, I have. I'm sorry, I've just been running up
and down the stairs.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Ok I have to go into a different room for
this information.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I really did. I'm sorry. I didn't know that you
wanted my cases. Okay, So here I am. So Christ
Church men convicted sexual offending against a young girl, maintains
his innocent. So he this person is Blear Hunt Christ,
(05:26):
which is just at court. Jury foundhim guilty of eleven
charges sexual connection with young person five and decent assaults
against young people.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Probably yes, properly.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
A creep uh prey meditated grooming, as Casey described him,
a man of good character and offending as a significant
(06:00):
fall from grace. Judge Kevin Phillips rejected the idea of
Hunt's good character, stating he lost it when the offended
first began and did continue.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
That's over three years. He's a tough old Judge Kevin Phillips, Okay, listen,
that's that's actually not helping your argument. That's that's the
opposite of help. No argument. It's okay, Ruth. I'm going
to give you a chance though, because, as I say,
the show's going for another two hours and three quarters.
So come back to us when you find the examples
that are relevant.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Here's one here, yeah on here. Sol Luke Stainton, former
youth leader at a Bpton Baptist church and tod On,
a convicted of sexual connection with a fifteen year old girl,
who was sentenced to two years three months imprisonment. During
the sentencing, the judge applied to ten percent discount for
his good character.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Satutory rape. Isn't it that stat rape? Isn't it? I
mean that's not kaddy fiddling? Isn't it? How old was he?
Because if it's fifteen and seventeen, it starts to get
wooly here and kind of a but awkward. What's his
name again? I'll google it.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
He's twenty five years old, okay. So he appealed the sentence,
arguing the discount for good character should have been higher,
citing cases where discounts are up to twenty five percent
have been applied. The appeal judge agreed with the sentencing's
judge approach, but added a further ten percent due to
his age. He was twenty five years old at the time.
(07:24):
Therefore it was reduced upon appeal. So we got even
more good character discount upon appeal. I can is another
one constantly?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yet go on quickly? Yep, short of time.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Sixty six years old. He's been sentenced a fifteen year old.
Good character was accepted. The judge stated, both men who
assaulted that person had amazing references.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I've got another one here, fin, Ruth lord jee nine
year old. Okay, I've got to go to sport. I mean,
it sounds terrible to say that, but Ruth, thank you.
Ruth Money, chief victim's advisor. For more from Hither Duplessy
Allen Drive, listen live to News Talk Set B from
four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Heather dup c L nine two nineteen is the text number,
standard text fees applied. Barrysoapa is going to talk us
through that. Love to hear what you've got to say
about it. I suspect most people love this idea anyway,
Onto something else. The National Party says if it is
re elected, it will scrap good character references for sexual
offenders facing sentencing. Now, this is where a sex offender's
families or associates testify about their good character, and then
(00:23):
the judge takes those references into account when they decide
on a sentence. Samira Ta Garvey from the Law Association
told Mike this morning they're getting rid of these references.
Not a good idea.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
The government is trying to tell the public that good
character reference makes a massive difference in terms of sentencing.
That's far from the truth. Judges already done put a
lot of emphasis on that good character reference unless they
see it as completely relevant.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Ruth Money is the chief victim's advisor and is with us. Hi, Ruth, Hello,
why do we need this.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Well, because it's a farce. You know you are a victim.
Someone has been found guilty or is pled guilty to
sexually abusing you. And let's remember that half, almost half
of the sexual violence in New Zealand is perpetrated against
our children. Never the case for any sexual offending. I
can just go to the golf club and get old
(01:15):
mate to write me a character reference which is completely
irrelevant and actually not based on anything that the crown
or the police have told him. He's just written me
as his mate, a letter.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
In such case, if it's just a letter from your
golfing buddy, the judge is going to discount it and
they're going to throw it away.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well you would hope so. But there have been a
number of cases where sexual offenders do get good character
references and get discounts for the good character references. And
what I have been saying in my advice is it's
an oxymoron to have a person of good character rapeer child.
(01:56):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Give me an example of a discount.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Well, anything can anything can be applied. So what will
happen is no.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
No, give me an example of where somebody has got
a discount that you're aware of.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Oh, I'm not sure I can name things because there
were suppressions around those cases. But what I can say
even last week, for example, with the Kerrang Hackey road case,
where three people had assaulted a backpacker. There were good
character references, there was about a twenty percent discount given.
Now that wasn't all good character references, but everything was
(02:32):
combined to give that person a twenty percent discount.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
What was the most people was a portion of the
discount because of good character.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yes, I understand that is exactly what happened.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
You understand. Look, I'm pressing you on this ruth because
when I I've called around about this and I can
get no evidence that this is happening, that there are
I can't get, and even talking to you, it's all couched.
And I unders stand I can't talk about it suppression.
I have no clear example, and I'd love one. I
have no clear example where a really bad person has
(03:07):
done a very bad thing and then because their mate
has written them a good character reference, they've got a discount.
So are we sure this is happening or are we
just Yes, we're making up a policy for something that
isn't a problem.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
No, we are not making an example. For a start,
it is a problem for victims and survivors to sit
in a court and hear what a good bloke that
person is.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
And it's not that is not a good that's not
a good argument. Give me an example of a discount
that has been applied for good character.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I'm actually just trying to pull up my readings document.
I'm really sorry.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
No, that's okay. Would you like listen rather than making
you do this on air, because it's not fair on you.
Would you would you like to maybe email it through
to us or come back to us later in the show,
because the show obviously goes on until seven, so we
can address it later on.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Well, I am super happy to do it in the
second we.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
While you're doing that, can can you can I just
ask you this question. If a judge is given good character, right,
if a judge's got somebody with a letter or verbally
making a reference, are they obligated to take it into
account or can they choose to dismiss it?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Sorry, I'm just trying to find my No, they can
choose to dismiss it, so they're not obligated to consider
what has been presented in front of them. But what
what the process is is there's no due diligence given
for anybody to write those things so a defense lawyer
or has or her client can procure a good character
(04:45):
reference which can be better in which can yep, and
the judge may or may not consider it.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Okay, have you found you thinks?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Okay, I have. I'm sorry, I've just been running up
and down the stairs.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Ok I have to go into a different room for
this information.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I really did. I'm sorry. I didn't know that you
wanted my cases. Okay, So here I am. So Christ
Church men convicted sexual offending against a young girl, maintains
his innocent. So he this person is Blear Hunt Christ,
(05:26):
which is just at court. Jury foundhim guilty of eleven
charges sexual connection with young person five and decent assaults
against young people.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Probably yes, properly.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
A creep uh prey meditated grooming, as Casey described him,
a man of good character and offending as a significant
(06:00):
fall from grace. Judge Kevin Phillips rejected the idea of
Hunt's good character, stating he lost it when the offended
first began and did continue.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
That's over three years. He's a tough old Judge Kevin Phillips, Okay, listen,
that's that's actually not helping your argument. That's that's the
opposite of help. No argument. It's okay, Ruth. I'm going
to give you a chance though, because, as I say,
the show's going for another two hours and three quarters.
So come back to us when you find the examples
that are relevant.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Here's one here, yeah on here. Sol Luke Stainton, former
youth leader at a Bpton Baptist church and tod On,
a convicted of sexual connection with a fifteen year old girl,
who was sentenced to two years three months imprisonment. During
the sentencing, the judge applied to ten percent discount for
his good character.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Satutory rape. Isn't it that stat rape? Isn't it? I
mean that's not kaddy fiddling? Isn't it? How old was he?
Because if it's fifteen and seventeen, it starts to get
wooly here and kind of a but awkward. What's his
name again? I'll google it.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
He's twenty five years old, okay. So he appealed the sentence,
arguing the discount for good character should have been higher,
citing cases where discounts are up to twenty five percent
have been applied. The appeal judge agreed with the sentencing's
judge approach, but added a further ten percent due to
his age. He was twenty five years old at the time.
(07:24):
Therefore it was reduced upon appeal. So we got even
more good character discount upon appeal. I can is another
one constantly?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yet go on quickly? Yep, short of time.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Sixty six years old. He's been sentenced a fifteen year old.
Good character was accepted. The judge stated, both men who
assaulted that person had amazing references.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I've got another one here, fin, Ruth lord jee nine
year old. Okay, I've got to go to sport. I mean,
it sounds terrible to say that, but Ruth, thank you.
Ruth Money, chief victim's advisor. For more from Hither Duplessy
Allen Drive, listen live to News Talk Set B from
four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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