The Huddle: Are we surprised by Labour's AUKUS u-turn?

Tonight on The Huddle, journalist Clare de Lore and Child Fund's Josie Pagani joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!

Labour has ruled out joining AUKUS during their next term in Government. Is this a valid statement? What made Labour change its mind? 

Joe Biden has pardoned his son, Hunter Biden. Is this a mistake?

UK Masterchef host Gregg Wallace has hit back at allegations of improper behaviour, blaming the allegations on 'middle class women of a certain age'. What do we make of this fight-back tactic?

Te Papa has made $750,000 in two months from charging international visitors $35 per visit. Does this prove we should be making international visitors pay for more things?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and
global exposure like no other.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
And on the huddle this evening journalists cleared a law
and child fun CEO Josie Bigani held a chord there
we go, got the microphones on, so UCUS. It is
a bit unusual, is it not to have a division
like this when it comes to foreign policy, Josie? And
to have a party who's not in government ruling out
something that they initially supported investigating.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yeah, I think it's a case of differentiating on as
many things as they can to get cut through. And
I think they're right on this. I think David Parker
gave a good defense of it there. Look, the Trump
election made Aucust really complicated. He's going to do tariff's
on us. Anyway, what are we gaining by joining August
Pillar two? And I think we do kind of know

(00:47):
what it is. It's sharing military know how ie technology
like AI drones and so on, which we're kind of
doing anyway, we do it through five eyes. And for me,
the big thing is, you know, independent from policy is
probably going to matter to us even more. We're not Australia,
We're certainly not the US. We've got a much bigger
Pacific profile than Australia, and our kind of center of

(01:09):
gravity is really the Pacific, and Pacific nations have been
balancing this kind of global tension between China and US
for a lot longer than we have. Actually, I mean,
they're doing a better job of it in some ways
than us, and I think we have to be really
careful that we maintain that kind of Pacific identity and
that independence. And the other thing is, you know, China

(01:30):
isn't really our enemy at the moment. You know, we've
got a lot more threats to New Zealand at the moment.
We've got you know, Russia expanding, expansionist Russia. We've got
a dysfunctional un where the veto just basically makes everything
kind of hopeless.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
So we've got to look at the whole range of
threats to us and take our own position.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think that's right, Okay, Clear, it's always a dangerous
game to try and put yourself in the mind of
Donald Trump. But is there a possibility that not not
joining up to WACAS. Pillar two is the difference between
New Zealand facing tariffs and not well.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
That may be a factor. But I having listened to
David Parker, I'd have to say I find myself thinking
we should be pursuing Aucus two to find out what
it could offer. He could not say what might be
in it that he so strongly envehemently disagrees with that
it's completely off the table. And we're at it. We

(02:27):
are now getting a lot of pressure not just from
say the United States, but also Australia to lift our
defense done and we've sunk part of a naval capacity.
Whatever sort of cooperation and assistance we can technically have,
I think we need to keep exploring. We're falling very
far behind in a whole range of areas, and I

(02:49):
think a defense might be one. And I'm not saying
we should join Pillar two to try and sort of
escape the wrath of Donald Trump on another front. But
if it happened, who have some positive effect, that's not
a bad thing too.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, it is it is on the on The onus
is on the supporters of ORCUST to actually explain what
we get out of this.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Right, But also Jack, Yeah, it's not yes they have,
but also you think they have.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
No.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
I don't think that we know that I mean, actually,
you know, we know that Pillar one was sharing you know,
nuclear building, nuclear submarine, nuclear powered submarines. It's not nuclear weapons,
nuclear powered submarines, you know, with Australia and the UK
and Britain. But I think the thing about Pillar two
is we look in our region, the Pacific and also
Southeast Asia where they're you know, doing what's called hedging, right,

(03:37):
they're not. They're trading with China. They're looking to get
the sort of back the rules based order of that's
headed by the US. We've got to do the same thing.
We've got to be careful not to sort of shoot
ourselves on the foot on trade. And ironically China and
the US both want to join the TPP or a
few scoll it the cp TPP, the TPP. Yeah, but

(03:59):
they're going further apart on security, so they're kind of
hedging as well, you know. So I think we just
have to be very politic about this, and I think
the Labour's position is right.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, Okay, Josie Bigani clear the law our huddle this evening.
We're back in a couple of minutes.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International realty, elevate the
marketing of your home.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
You're back with our huddle this evening, clear law and
Josie Bgany so clear. Joe Biden has pardoned Hunter Biden
despite saying a thousand times that he wouldn't do. So
what do you think?

Speaker 4 (04:29):
I think it's completely understandable. But I mean it's another
blow to his legacy, you know, which is just going
to be seen as as pretty hopeless and just a
blip in between two what will be and what was
volatile Trump administrations. And I really do sort of fear
for the comfort that Trump will take from this, because

(04:50):
he now, of course from the Supreme Court, has total immunity,
as I presume in fact Biden does now too. But
it just means that effectively the families, there's you know,
if you're going to get into a tip for Tait,
you did this, I did that, then Trump is going
to feel very empowered to partner his own family. I mean,
pardons are used as part of what's an overall clemency

(05:14):
arrangement where presidents will either commuter sentence or grant pardon,
and they used very liberally sometimes. I mean in modern history,
the two presidents have used them least often were the
two the two Bushes, George and his and George JR.
Obama used them very liberally.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Of course.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
It wasn't Bill Clinton when he was like twelve hours
before he left office or something. Yeah. Yeah, there is
as a history.

Speaker 4 (05:45):
There's a big history of it. The most famous one,
of course was Gerald Ford partning Nixon in nineteen seventy
four over Water Gates.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Which was different.

Speaker 4 (05:52):
But you know, this is just another flow to buy it.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
It just looks awful, doesn't it. I understand as a mother,
I mean, tell me how to bribe, to sleep with
or do anything to say for children, right, but this
just looks terrible. I mean even Jesus didn't get a
pardon from his dad.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
You know.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
It's just you can't just change the rule of law
like that. And he's when you campaigned on it. So
I definitely think he's campaigned on honesty, integrity, rule of law.
I definitely think that there's politics behind the onslaught against
Hunter Biden, but he did so the politics got him
to court. He got to court, he was found guilty
by a court that's independent. So either you're saying the

(06:29):
justice system is independent or you're saying it's not. He's
now lost the high ground. The Democrats have lost the
high ground. Trump can not only pardon his own family,
he can he can say, well, I'm going to pardon
the January, the sixth insurrectionists, I'm going to pardon everybody
and anybody in my last administration. And the Democrats now
have no high ground, Starians.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Not much high There's not a lot of high ground.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
No ground.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, yeah, And I'm not sure that what aboutism is
really going to get us, you know, no worst position
the MO already and when it comes to the US now,
the UK MASTERSHIF host Greg Wallace has hit back at
allegations of proper behavior, blaming them on quote middle class
women of a certain age and not casting any.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Spirit downwardly mobile middle class women of a certain age.
We're much more resilient than that, aren't we?

Speaker 4 (07:14):
Clear from Greg?

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, what the hell is he talking about the idea
that we'd be sort of weilting violets. But this is
a guy who was wandering around the studio totally naked
with the socks on his willy. I mean, that is
not good.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
Behavior in the modern workplace. That sort of thing you
did that, Jack, I feel very worried.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
I wouldn't be offended. I'd be worried for your mental health.
But he's just making this so much more soul than
just yes.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
He will lose this job. He will not be employed
by anyone else.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Master Chef host is certainly not serving humble Pie is No,
absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Very quickly to Papa. You know how they're charging international
visitors thirty five bucks a visit in two months, They've
made seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars during in the
shows that we should act she'd be charging international visitors
a little bit more.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
I think it's fantastic. I wouldn't charge more.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
No, no, no, not more for to Papa, but I mean,
you know, for visiting New Zealand, like we should. We
should be charging for other museums, right, Well, I.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
Think you go into a lot of museums in the
world and they're free, but there are a whole bunch
of places where you do pay. And I think we
just need to actually start looking at all revenue streams.
I'd be kind of interested to know what the visitor
figures were and what the pushback was from some people.
But hey, that seems to me to have been a
pretty yes, very I think it's.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
A really bad look to charge tourists more than locals.
It just looks like, you know, he's to Papa where
we tell the stories about our nationhood and about who
we are. It's like the Treaty House in White Tangi.
They wanted to charge tourists to come in to see
our founding document. You imagine that in Philadelphia of you
going in to see the founding documents in America.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, you don't. It's free.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
There is no there is no central funding for the
Waitang National trus.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, that's remarkable. I Hey, thank you so much. We're
going to keep moving, but thank you for your time
this morning, this evening, our huddle this evening on Newstalks,
he'd be clear the low and Josie Bagani. It's seven
to six on Newstalks.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
E'd be for more from hither Duplessy Alan Drive. Listen
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