May 20, 2026 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Auckland councillor Maurice Williamson and Jack Tame from ZB's Saturday Mornings and Q&A joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
The Government has confirmed there's more public service cuts to come ahead of Budget 2026. What do we make of this? Do we think AI can really replace all these jobs?
What are the chances of Auckland Council's rates rise being kept to less than 7.9 percent?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm a huddle of us. This evening we have Morris
Williams and Auckland councilor, former National Party minister, and Jack Tame,
host of Saturday Mornings in Q and a Who's in
studio high.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Lads Jyoda highlight of the hijack.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Right, Jack, what do you make of the public sector cuts?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I think it all depends on the detail. I think
in principle there's a really good argument to be made
for things like centralizing HR. But at the end of
the day, we don't have the detail about where these
cuts are coming from. We've had assurances from the Finance
Minister that they aren't necessarily going to affect frontline services,
but you would have to say, as a frontline figure,
it's a massive number of people to be losing their job.
(00:35):
So I think until we have the actual detail about
what is going to be cut, we're not in a
position to make that judgement.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Do you think, Morris it sounded like when I was
speaking to Brian Roach earlier, it sounds like he has
already kind of figured out in his head how this
is going to work. In which case, why aren't they
announcing the kind of bones of that.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
I'm sure they've done a very good back of an
envelope draft about where their numbers are, how they've grown
over time, where the trims need to be made, and
more importantly, the use of technology that that can really
give them some technological gains. I think I gave you
an example the other day of when we had the
ten five hundred returns come in on Plan Change one
(01:16):
twenty at council. We had a team of people that
had been working for weeks and it's been over four
million dollars analyzing them, and one of our counselors gave
them to an AAI bot and the bot did it
within thirty hours or twenty five hours or something, and
it costs next to a few thousand dollars. So those
new technologies that AI brings, things like clawed and things
(01:37):
like copilot within data management and processing, well, I think
change the entire structure of what an old public service
looked like before all these changes come through.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
So so does that mean Morrison? Because I listened to
all of this chat about AI and just felt really embarrassed.
It was like listening to old people talking about computers
and nobody actually knew what they were talking about and
potentially AI is over promising on what it can do,
but you sound like you're actually pretty bullish on it.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Yeah, I think it's just got just got started, and
I use it now daily. I'm using Microsoft co Pilot
to go in and analyze huge chunks of data, which
in the past I literally just spend days trying to
find a way to accumulate rows and columns and get
a trend line through them and so on. You just
can ask it and it'll just come back with the solutions,
bang on, and it's in its infancy. It's a little
(02:26):
bit like watching the Right Brothers get off the ground
at Kitty Hawk. This has got a long way to go,
but a seven four seven will be the eventual product
we produce out of AI in my view.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, it also does like it does as Morris is
a really good job of synthesizing huge amounts of information,
so you can cut down on that kind of drudgery
that is part of the kind of public service role.
But also those tasks that are replicated time and again
over different ministries, stuff like HR. You can see how
with the use of technology you could streamline that a
(02:58):
whole lot. I still think it comes out to the
cuts are until until we have detail on exactly what
the cuts are.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I mean, would you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Be prepared to give up entire ministries?
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Though?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, I don't see there's why there's necessarily any reason
we have to be one hundred percent committed to specific ministries.
But it depends on it depends on the function of
the ministry.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Thought potentially one ministry that's cut. I was going to
have some people who are going to be very angry.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean this is a painful thing.
One No, no, I could possibly, I think too.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
That one of the interesting things.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Actually, it has been interesting to see David Semore's comments
over the last few days. I think approaching this with
compassion is important, and I think maybe the last time
they went around with the cuts, there was this real
kind of gun attitude. Well when the cuts were announced
at the start of this term. Yes, this is why
I don't want.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
To waste my compassion on something that hasn't happened.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I might not happen. Yeah, again, all the more reason.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I did a lot of compassion last time, and then
we didn't actually fire any so yeah I did. I
was like, oh, I'm so sorry to hear all these
people are going to lose their jobs.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
No one did so, but Jack's right to be skeptical. Hither,
I mean, this is what we will do in the future,
and there's been too many of these announced and then
it's been a little triple horus.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
This is Nicola just getting the budget looking good, Isn't
it Like you promise that you're going to fire all
these people by twenty twenty nine, which means Treasury adjusts
it in surplus by twenty nine. That's what this is.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
A yeah, yeah, And it's election year and it's a
nice feeling for the vast look of people who aren't
public servants to say it's bloated and.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
It needs to be dealt with. I think Jack's right.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
The devil will be in the detail and the actual
delivery of it. But I do think that we're on
the verge of just like when the internet. When I
first went to Parliament, we didn't have an Internet, and
we didn't have emails and anything, and the process of
writing letters to people and going to meetings where all
your papers had to be typed up on a typewriter
and so on. You think of how the Internet changed
(04:47):
everything there in terms of email and cellular phones came
at the same time. Well, now, AI is that next
big breakthrough will change so much how you work every day,
make productivity so much better.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Let's take a quick break your back with the huddle.
It's twelve away from sex Morris Williamson and Jack Jack.
How excited are you that we're going to talk about
capital gains tax right now?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So excited?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
And how sad was your little capital gains tax loving
heart to see that all the young people, the gen
z is and the millennials in Australia hate it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I am, first of all, not surprised. I mean people
don't like need to, don't like tax. I mean there's
no there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
You were telling me we're all ready for it now
and things have changed. Have you not made that argument?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think things have changed, do you not? Australia?
Speaker 5 (05:31):
No?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I think well, I think where it's totally different economies.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I mean Australia has had a capital gains text for
a while, they've had stamp duties for a while as well.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
They've got a higher top rate of England.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Therefore, if they've already had it, and they so, they're
even more text than us. If they're already used to it,
they should be totally.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Fine with the no. I think I think the thing
that that maybe will help Labour's argument going into the selection.
First of all, I feel like their policy has been
focus grouped up to the up the wazoo, to the
point that they're trying to make it offend the fewest number.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Of people possible.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Secret of all, did haven't been major capital gains on
property for years now, And I think that if we
were at a time when people were seeing five or
six percent gains every year, it would be a different
political environment.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But we're not seeing that right now.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
So I think.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
There's likely to be less opposition than there would have
been a few years ago, Which is not to say
there won't be opposition. I just think there's likely to
be less.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
I don't know, Morris, I reckon when Labor starts talking
about this here in the campaign, it's going to fall flat.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
What do you think?
Speaker 5 (06:23):
I was just enjoying you two going at it. Then
that was great? Can we keep a bit more of
that up? Yeah? Look, I mean.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
There's a whole lot of stuff about capital gains, taxes,
The number of people in my patch out here are
properties for you know, one million a year ago or
so and or two years ago and now they're worth
eight hundred and fifty thousand? Do they get tacked back
on that? Do we pay back for if there's a
capital loss in the end. I just think it's a
silly idea because you've got to make that many exemptions
to make it palatable. And as soon as you make
(06:51):
that many exemptions you end up what is it, pay
for three free doctor's visits for something a year? Yeah,
that's it.
Speaker 5 (06:57):
I mean it's a joke and just leave it alone.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Now listen Morris, is it true that the vote on
raising rates in Auckland to seven point nine percent highest
ever is really close? And so close you can't be
sure this is going to pass?
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Yes, it's very hard of council compared to Parliament. At
Parliament you pretty know where your numbers lie unless you
get a rogue person like me who crossed the floor
Once you know you've got all your votes in a
row and the whips just can basically call out the
numbers like that, so you're not. But at Council, every
one of the twenty are independent. Everyone's got a view
of their own. Everyone's got their own hobby horses about
(07:33):
what they think.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Maybe you keep going, but.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Tell me if this is true. So what I'm being
told is that it's possibly ten eleven and it will lose,
like eleven against ten to four. It will lose, but
Mayor Brown will rely on the independent Marori Statutory Board members,
the two of them to get it over the line.
Twelve eleven.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Is that going to happen?
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Right?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Well, well, let me tell you why that can't happen.
And I've only confirmed this very carefully a day with
legal and so on. It does go to a budget
committee where there's independent Marty Statutory Board and there may
be vote, so that it does get carried by that,
but it actually then has to go to the governing
bodies straight after him. But we've actually scheduled to have
a governing body meeting immediately that the budget Committee comes
(08:13):
to its conclusion. So there you only have the counselors
now and Marty Statue, so no man off. So if
you actually did only get it through by one vote
because of that, you may end.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Up losing it by one vote.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
It's very hard that I've talked to counselors today Adiam
Vanidam about it. Some are in, some are out, some
are not sure. Some have got more convincing to do.
I look, I think you're better off putting a bet
on whether Nikola will make eight hundred and seventy thousand.
Sorry State workers, that was a bit too high.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Somebody who's telling me earlier, Jack. People are really angry
about the seven point nine percent rate rise in England,
and really angry because it's funding the CRL. Do you
feel this intensity about it?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Well, I mean I don't like it. My race fell
included high at the moment, and I've looked at the
four projections for you know, relatively smaller rates cuts in
the years to come. I mean it's I've been in
the Karranga Hube station, which is one of the cathedral
like stations to use me as it overbuilt. I mean,
it's incredibly impressive. Now I'm no engineer, I can't tell
(09:20):
you if we could have made it a whole lot cheaper,
but it is incredibly impressive. I mean the platform alone
is more than two hundred meters long. It's two rugby
fields long.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, ten stories under k road they have a thousand
trains one day.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, that's it.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
But unfortunately we are paying some significant upfront costs. And
my understanding of the of the of the rates, Beell,
is that a large part of this year's rate is
going to.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
All of us, apparently all of it. It's apparently all
of it. Hey, thank you very much, guys, appreciate it.
Jack Time, Morris Williams and ow huddle this evening.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
I'm a huddle of us. This evening we have Morris
Williams and Auckland councilor, former National Party minister, and Jack Tame,
host of Saturday Mornings in Q and a Who's in
studio high.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Lads Jyoda highlight of the hijack.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Right, Jack, what do you make of the public sector cuts?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I think it all depends on the detail. I think
in principle there's a really good argument to be made
for things like centralizing HR. But at the end of
the day, we don't have the detail about where these
cuts are coming from. We've had assurances from the Finance
Minister that they aren't necessarily going to affect frontline services,
but you would have to say, as a frontline figure,
it's a massive number of people to be losing their job.
(00:35):
So I think until we have the actual detail about
what is going to be cut, we're not in a
position to make that judgement.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Do you think, Morris it sounded like when I was
speaking to Brian Roach earlier, it sounds like he has
already kind of figured out in his head how this
is going to work. In which case, why aren't they
announcing the kind of bones of that.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
I'm sure they've done a very good back of an
envelope draft about where their numbers are, how they've grown
over time, where the trims need to be made, and
more importantly, the use of technology that that can really
give them some technological gains. I think I gave you
an example the other day of when we had the
ten five hundred returns come in on Plan Change one
(01:16):
twenty at council. We had a team of people that
had been working for weeks and it's been over four
million dollars analyzing them, and one of our counselors gave
them to an AAI bot and the bot did it
within thirty hours or twenty five hours or something, and
it costs next to a few thousand dollars. So those
new technologies that AI brings, things like clawed and things
(01:37):
like copilot within data management and processing, well, I think
change the entire structure of what an old public service
looked like before all these changes come through.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
So so does that mean Morrison? Because I listened to
all of this chat about AI and just felt really embarrassed.
It was like listening to old people talking about computers
and nobody actually knew what they were talking about and
potentially AI is over promising on what it can do,
but you sound like you're actually pretty bullish on it.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Yeah, I think it's just got just got started, and
I use it now daily. I'm using Microsoft co Pilot
to go in and analyze huge chunks of data, which
in the past I literally just spend days trying to
find a way to accumulate rows and columns and get
a trend line through them and so on. You just
can ask it and it'll just come back with the solutions,
bang on, and it's in its infancy. It's a little
(02:26):
bit like watching the Right Brothers get off the ground
at Kitty Hawk. This has got a long way to go,
but a seven four seven will be the eventual product
we produce out of AI in my view.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, it also does like it does as Morris is
a really good job of synthesizing huge amounts of information,
so you can cut down on that kind of drudgery
that is part of the kind of public service role.
But also those tasks that are replicated time and again
over different ministries, stuff like HR. You can see how
with the use of technology you could streamline that a
(02:58):
whole lot. I still think it comes out to the
cuts are until until we have detail on exactly what
the cuts are.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I mean, would you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Be prepared to give up entire ministries?
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Though?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, I don't see there's why there's necessarily any reason
we have to be one hundred percent committed to specific ministries.
But it depends on it depends on the function of
the ministry.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Thought potentially one ministry that's cut. I was going to
have some people who are going to be very angry.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean this is a painful thing.
One No, no, I could possibly, I think too.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
That one of the interesting things.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Actually, it has been interesting to see David Semore's comments
over the last few days. I think approaching this with
compassion is important, and I think maybe the last time
they went around with the cuts, there was this real
kind of gun attitude. Well when the cuts were announced
at the start of this term. Yes, this is why
I don't want.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
To waste my compassion on something that hasn't happened.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I might not happen. Yeah, again, all the more reason.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I did a lot of compassion last time, and then
we didn't actually fire any so yeah I did. I
was like, oh, I'm so sorry to hear all these
people are going to lose their jobs.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
No one did so, but Jack's right to be skeptical. Hither,
I mean, this is what we will do in the future,
and there's been too many of these announced and then
it's been a little triple horus.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
This is Nicola just getting the budget looking good, Isn't
it Like you promise that you're going to fire all
these people by twenty twenty nine, which means Treasury adjusts
it in surplus by twenty nine. That's what this is.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
A yeah, yeah, And it's election year and it's a
nice feeling for the vast look of people who aren't
public servants to say it's bloated and.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
It needs to be dealt with. I think Jack's right.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
The devil will be in the detail and the actual
delivery of it. But I do think that we're on
the verge of just like when the internet. When I
first went to Parliament, we didn't have an Internet, and
we didn't have emails and anything, and the process of
writing letters to people and going to meetings where all
your papers had to be typed up on a typewriter
and so on. You think of how the Internet changed
(04:47):
everything there in terms of email and cellular phones came
at the same time. Well, now, AI is that next
big breakthrough will change so much how you work every day,
make productivity so much better.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Let's take a quick break your back with the huddle.
It's twelve away from sex Morris Williamson and Jack Jack.
How excited are you that we're going to talk about
capital gains tax right now?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So excited?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
And how sad was your little capital gains tax loving
heart to see that all the young people, the gen
z is and the millennials in Australia hate it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I am, first of all, not surprised. I mean people
don't like need to, don't like tax. I mean there's
no there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
You were telling me we're all ready for it now
and things have changed. Have you not made that argument?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think things have changed, do you not? Australia?
Speaker 5 (05:31):
No?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I think well, I think where it's totally different economies.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I mean Australia has had a capital gains text for
a while, they've had stamp duties for a while as well.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
They've got a higher top rate of England.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Therefore, if they've already had it, and they so, they're
even more text than us. If they're already used to it,
they should be totally.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Fine with the no. I think I think the thing
that that maybe will help Labour's argument going into the selection.
First of all, I feel like their policy has been
focus grouped up to the up the wazoo, to the
point that they're trying to make it offend the fewest number.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Of people possible.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Secret of all, did haven't been major capital gains on
property for years now, And I think that if we
were at a time when people were seeing five or
six percent gains every year, it would be a different
political environment.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But we're not seeing that right now.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
So I think.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
There's likely to be less opposition than there would have
been a few years ago, Which is not to say
there won't be opposition. I just think there's likely to
be less.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
I don't know, Morris, I reckon when Labor starts talking
about this here in the campaign, it's going to fall flat.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
What do you think?
Speaker 5 (06:23):
I was just enjoying you two going at it. Then
that was great? Can we keep a bit more of
that up? Yeah? Look, I mean.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
There's a whole lot of stuff about capital gains, taxes,
The number of people in my patch out here are
properties for you know, one million a year ago or
so and or two years ago and now they're worth
eight hundred and fifty thousand? Do they get tacked back
on that? Do we pay back for if there's a
capital loss in the end. I just think it's a
silly idea because you've got to make that many exemptions
to make it palatable. And as soon as you make
(06:51):
that many exemptions you end up what is it, pay
for three free doctor's visits for something a year? Yeah,
that's it.
Speaker 5 (06:57):
I mean it's a joke and just leave it alone.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Now listen Morris, is it true that the vote on
raising rates in Auckland to seven point nine percent highest
ever is really close? And so close you can't be
sure this is going to pass?
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Yes, it's very hard of council compared to Parliament. At
Parliament you pretty know where your numbers lie unless you
get a rogue person like me who crossed the floor
Once you know you've got all your votes in a
row and the whips just can basically call out the
numbers like that, so you're not. But at Council, every
one of the twenty are independent. Everyone's got a view
of their own. Everyone's got their own hobby horses about
(07:33):
what they think.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Maybe you keep going, but.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Tell me if this is true. So what I'm being
told is that it's possibly ten eleven and it will lose,
like eleven against ten to four. It will lose, but
Mayor Brown will rely on the independent Marori Statutory Board members,
the two of them to get it over the line.
Twelve eleven.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Is that going to happen?
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Right?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Well, well, let me tell you why that can't happen.
And I've only confirmed this very carefully a day with
legal and so on. It does go to a budget
committee where there's independent Marty Statutory Board and there may
be vote, so that it does get carried by that,
but it actually then has to go to the governing
bodies straight after him. But we've actually scheduled to have
a governing body meeting immediately that the budget Committee comes
(08:13):
to its conclusion. So there you only have the counselors
now and Marty Statue, so no man off. So if
you actually did only get it through by one vote
because of that, you may end.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Up losing it by one vote.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
It's very hard that I've talked to counselors today Adiam
Vanidam about it. Some are in, some are out, some
are not sure. Some have got more convincing to do.
I look, I think you're better off putting a bet
on whether Nikola will make eight hundred and seventy thousand.
Sorry State workers, that was a bit too high.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Somebody who's telling me earlier, Jack. People are really angry
about the seven point nine percent rate rise in England,
and really angry because it's funding the CRL. Do you
feel this intensity about it?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Well, I mean I don't like it. My race fell
included high at the moment, and I've looked at the
four projections for you know, relatively smaller rates cuts in
the years to come. I mean it's I've been in
the Karranga Hube station, which is one of the cathedral
like stations to use me as it overbuilt. I mean,
it's incredibly impressive. Now I'm no engineer, I can't tell
(09:20):
you if we could have made it a whole lot cheaper,
but it is incredibly impressive. I mean the platform alone
is more than two hundred meters long. It's two rugby
fields long.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, ten stories under k road they have a thousand
trains one day.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Well, that's it.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
But unfortunately we are paying some significant upfront costs. And
my understanding of the of the of the rates, Beell,
is that a large part of this year's rate is
going to.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
All of us, apparently all of it. It's apparently all
of it. Hey, thank you very much, guys, appreciate it.
Jack Time, Morris Williams and ow huddle this evening.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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