May 7, 2026 • 8 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, broadcaster Mark Sainsbury and Thomas Scrimgeour from the Maxim Institute joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
The Government has confirmed it plans to investigate the City Rail Link project, after reports revealed it could have cost $2 billion less. Do we think this review is needed?
Is it time to lift the Super age from 65? Another economist has warned we can't keep kicking the can down the road. What do we think?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the huddle with us this evening. We have Mark Sainsbury,
Broadcaster and Thomas Scrimger of the Maximumstitute Hire you too,
Yeah you here now, I'll tell you what I'm worried
about here Saints. I was like, I do think we've
got to run the ruler over these things, and I
do think we have to ask questions. But I worry
that every time we angst about where the things cost
too much, it just makes us not want to pay
for the next big project and then we don't get
(00:20):
the next big project and it's holding us back.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
What do you think or else? The big thing was
we waited too long? I mean like transmission Gully. How
many years did it go before they find? You know,
sometimes you want to go just do it, just do it.
But the lesson from this seems to be that is
that the way it was set up. I mean, this
guy's there is no idiot. I mean, he ran the project.
But if he's saying we could have done it but
(00:43):
they were tied up, I think this has to be reviewed.
We could have had another new hospital, yeah, top of
the rail.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, you don't need to, you don't need to. Would
you like a new hospital? Cathedral ceilings in your stations, Thomas,
which one that was for you? Mate?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Hello, oh, well a cathedral ceiling would be grand. I think,
you know, a nice fresco get you know, get Michelangelo
on there, and I think we could do something really really,
you know, good for you.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Why not it up? Well, do you have concerns about
the cost here?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Well, I just think for this, how New Zealanders are, right,
like something nice is happening, we'd better just put it,
put a dampener on it, right, Like we're not going to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
This is a fair point from you. I suppose maybe
we're maybe we are being too miserable, says So what
do you think?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, no, look, it's good. I mean, major projects like
this are important. But you know we can't we can't
afford to do them badly. We know we don't have
the same resources as other countries. And that's sort of
the world's most expensive, most expensive underground rail line mile
for a mile, that's that is a bit.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Of a well you know we're all going there though,
way saying, so, we're all going to be piling into
those stations the minute they open. So that's what we do.
If we've got a tunnel in this country. Basically all
of Auckland turns up you and you're welcome to fly
up from Wellington and join us.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Now there won't be I'll take the train up.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Heather Well as you should be only fitting now, Thomas.
This brings us to the I think quite nicely to
what's been going on with the OECD and the economic
report card that we've got, and the thing that they
focused on this time, which I think is unusual because
it hasn't happened in the past so much, is the
focus on the electricity sector. Do you like what you
see here in terms of the interventions they're calling for.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Well, I like that they're talking about it. You know,
electricity is just kind of the perpetual problem in New Zealand,
so that's a good thing. I mean, I'm I'm a
nuclear bro. I reckon you know, whatever else everyone wants
to do. I might put a nuclear reactor in New Zealand.
What do you reckon?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. But it's not going
to It's not going to solve our electricity situation for
twenty twenty seven, is it, Thomas?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Well, I don't think we can solve our twenty twenty seven. Problem.
You know, we're not going to build anything in time, right,
you know, central fear.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
But what if what if the government forced gent tailers
to cut their their dividends, right, so at least you're
getting some perhaps some pricing relief by twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Well but the problem with the electricity sector isn't that that,
you know, we're getting pricing relief. The problem has there
not investing in capital. They should They should cut their dividends.
They need to cut their dividends. They can invest in
developing stuff. Right, Like it's if we just cut cut
dividends so they can lower prices, we actually solved the
underlying issue.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, now saying so as as somebody who is you know,
taking the pension from the poor in this country, taking
taking food out of our mouths.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
How do I'm taking barries one? Yeah? Are you?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
He's taking his one? Toe though, So there's a problem.
How do you how do you feel about the means
testing the lifting of the age of because this is
I mean, it is getting to the crunchy point. The
National Party is going to campaign on it. We're probably
going to have to make a decision about it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I tell you. What I found most interesting about this
is that the OECD saying that you know, I mean,
they're kind of means testing, but it is the linking
eligibility to life expectancy, because I mean, Okay, if you
going to look at that, if you're a Mari male,
your life expectancy is seventy three. If you're a European
(04:07):
it's eighty one. So if European, you get fifty sixteen
years of the pension all right from your expected lifespan.
So should Mari men start getting it at fifty seven?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Well, you would. You wouldn't start with that, but it
would go down that path.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Wouldn't it, Because there's, I mean, the stats is a
huge catchment of people who just will never get the
pension because they die before the age. So once you
start getting into that, are you're going to talk about
eligibility and all that sort of stuff, then I think
you're going to be looking across the boarder.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, then should we also say people who get ovarian
cancer don't live past the age of forty, so we
should let them retire at thirty five? Well, because if
we start breaking it down by ethnicity, why don't we
break it down by everything.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, because if you go I mean when we talk
about people who don't reach the age of six, if
they diet all sorts of about you know, that includes
people from you know, dying as children. But I think
and the other interesting thing in that report was saying
that you know that super is a poverty prevention method
and a huge percentage of people getting the pension that
(05:11):
is it for them, that is what they've got to
live on. So it has some massive we all know,
the numbers don't seem to stack up, you know, the population,
the demographics and everything like that, but for a lot
of a lot of New Zealanders, you know, that is
something absolutely you know, it's not just a nice to have.
They rely on it.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, I don't know, Thomas, do you want to get
involved in this?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I love to get involved.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Well hang on, no, hold on then if you want
to get involved, I'm taking a break and we're going
to hear it after the break, Right, you're back with
the huddle, Thomas scrimser Mark Sainsbury gone, then, Thomas, what
do you want to say?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well? I was getting you know, I'm a head up
of steam for a sermon about superannuation means test today
means test forever. It's you know, we've got Chris besherflan
to quible about two billion dollars the Central Rail length
twenty five billion dollars a year every year for super.
If it's a poverty prevention mechanism, give it to people
who are poor. You're rich, you don't need it.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, but I'm going to get my accountant to rearrange
my affairs so I look poor when I'm not actually poor,
because you know that's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Thomas, Well, yeah, but if we're saying that, you know,
people can commit tax evasion if they get their accountant
to do stuff. But for twenty five billion dollars, we
only have to carve out, you know, for certain numbers
of people. Means testing this is definitely doable. We means
test welfare, we can means test super. Sooper's just another
kind of benefit.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, we're probably on the path to that now. Saying so,
how do you feel, as a Wellington City rappayer about
the fact that Wellington City staffers have quietly exempted themselves
from a new law.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Oh God, I'm sick of I'm sick of sick of
logging on seeing more. Yeah, look, it was even though
they were entitled to do it. They haven't breaken any rules.
What kind of sort of nuse does anyone have not
to think? Hang on, this is a particularly tricky and
sensitive issue given everything that's gone on. They should, at
(07:03):
the very least, the CEO should have told the mayor.
For the counselors to find out literally by excellent day
they're hearing someone else is just not acceptable.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
It's in real life. And Thomas, especially when you think
that the law that they've exempted themselves from is a
law that makes it easier to fire well paid managers
without having to give them a golden handshake. And they
have too many stuff like they have at least a
couple of hundred too many stuff they need to fire people.
Why would you exempt yourselves?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And you got to reckon, You've got to, like, you know,
respect the game. Though right here, you know, I just
quietly slide the papers across, like I'm impressed.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
But I know, but what is this? What's the follow up?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Is it? Hate? What?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Don't hate the player? Hate the game?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Well, you know, I think the mayor should be pretty
hacked off. And you know it's going to make some
hay about it and the counselors, because obviously taxpayers are
going to be pretty pretty aggrieved, like Wellington City councils
not thriving and its performance, shall we say put it kindly,
you know. So the fact that they are giving themselves
some you know, potentially sweetness in the contract is not
(08:06):
looking after the interest of taxpatter. So yeah, not a
good look really, and it's going to cause them problems
down the road.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I've got a solution, Saneso. What we need to do
is you and I just quietly, does will quietly decide
to exempt you from your rates. How would you like that?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It don't get me stuff from the bloody right. I've
got the leader from the council practically doubling them, telling
them at the same time, we're cutting the value of
your house by twenty five percent. That's true much.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It's because they've got to pay the Golden handshake to
the forty two people on I'm.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So pleased going to summery deserving somebody poor.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, absolutely, thank you so much, guys, appreciate it. Thomas Scriminger,
Mark Sainsbrooer huddle this evening for more from hither Duplessy
Allen Drive. Listen live to news talks it'd be from
four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
On the huddle with us this evening. We have Mark Sainsbury,
Broadcaster and Thomas Scrimger of the Maximumstitute Hire you too,
Yeah you here now, I'll tell you what I'm worried
about here Saints. I was like, I do think we've
got to run the ruler over these things, and I
do think we have to ask questions. But I worry
that every time we angst about where the things cost
too much, it just makes us not want to pay
for the next big project and then we don't get
(00:20):
the next big project and it's holding us back.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
What do you think or else? The big thing was
we waited too long? I mean like transmission Gully. How
many years did it go before they find? You know,
sometimes you want to go just do it, just do it.
But the lesson from this seems to be that is
that the way it was set up. I mean, this
guy's there is no idiot. I mean, he ran the project.
But if he's saying we could have done it but
(00:43):
they were tied up, I think this has to be reviewed.
We could have had another new hospital, yeah, top of
the rail.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, you don't need to, you don't need to. Would
you like a new hospital? Cathedral ceilings in your stations, Thomas,
which one that was for you? Mate?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Hello, oh, well a cathedral ceiling would be grand. I think,
you know, a nice fresco get you know, get Michelangelo
on there, and I think we could do something really really,
you know, good for you.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Why not it up? Well, do you have concerns about
the cost here?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Well, I just think for this, how New Zealanders are, right,
like something nice is happening, we'd better just put it,
put a dampener on it, right, Like we're not going to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
This is a fair point from you. I suppose maybe
we're maybe we are being too miserable, says So what
do you think?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, no, look, it's good. I mean, major projects like
this are important. But you know we can't we can't
afford to do them badly. We know we don't have
the same resources as other countries. And that's sort of
the world's most expensive, most expensive underground rail line mile
for a mile, that's that is a bit.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Of a well you know we're all going there though,
way saying, so, we're all going to be piling into
those stations the minute they open. So that's what we do.
If we've got a tunnel in this country. Basically all
of Auckland turns up you and you're welcome to fly
up from Wellington and join us.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Now there won't be I'll take the train up.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Heather Well as you should be only fitting now, Thomas.
This brings us to the I think quite nicely to
what's been going on with the OECD and the economic
report card that we've got, and the thing that they
focused on this time, which I think is unusual because
it hasn't happened in the past so much, is the
focus on the electricity sector. Do you like what you
see here in terms of the interventions they're calling for.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Well, I like that they're talking about it. You know,
electricity is just kind of the perpetual problem in New Zealand,
so that's a good thing. I mean, I'm I'm a
nuclear bro. I reckon you know, whatever else everyone wants
to do. I might put a nuclear reactor in New Zealand.
What do you reckon?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. But it's not going
to It's not going to solve our electricity situation for
twenty twenty seven, is it, Thomas?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Well, I don't think we can solve our twenty twenty seven. Problem.
You know, we're not going to build anything in time, right,
you know, central fear.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
But what if what if the government forced gent tailers
to cut their their dividends, right, so at least you're
getting some perhaps some pricing relief by twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Well but the problem with the electricity sector isn't that that,
you know, we're getting pricing relief. The problem has there
not investing in capital. They should They should cut their dividends.
They need to cut their dividends. They can invest in
developing stuff. Right, Like it's if we just cut cut
dividends so they can lower prices, we actually solved the
underlying issue.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, now saying so as as somebody who is you know,
taking the pension from the poor in this country, taking
taking food out of our mouths.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
How do I'm taking barries one? Yeah? Are you?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
He's taking his one? Toe though, So there's a problem.
How do you how do you feel about the means
testing the lifting of the age of because this is
I mean, it is getting to the crunchy point. The
National Party is going to campaign on it. We're probably
going to have to make a decision about it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I tell you. What I found most interesting about this
is that the OECD saying that you know, I mean,
they're kind of means testing, but it is the linking
eligibility to life expectancy, because I mean, Okay, if you
going to look at that, if you're a Mari male,
your life expectancy is seventy three. If you're a European
(04:07):
it's eighty one. So if European, you get fifty sixteen
years of the pension all right from your expected lifespan.
So should Mari men start getting it at fifty seven?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Well, you would. You wouldn't start with that, but it
would go down that path.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Wouldn't it, Because there's, I mean, the stats is a
huge catchment of people who just will never get the
pension because they die before the age. So once you
start getting into that, are you're going to talk about
eligibility and all that sort of stuff, then I think
you're going to be looking across the boarder.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, then should we also say people who get ovarian
cancer don't live past the age of forty, so we
should let them retire at thirty five? Well, because if
we start breaking it down by ethnicity, why don't we
break it down by everything.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, because if you go I mean when we talk
about people who don't reach the age of six, if
they diet all sorts of about you know, that includes
people from you know, dying as children. But I think
and the other interesting thing in that report was saying
that you know that super is a poverty prevention method
and a huge percentage of people getting the pension that
(05:11):
is it for them, that is what they've got to
live on. So it has some massive we all know,
the numbers don't seem to stack up, you know, the population,
the demographics and everything like that, but for a lot
of a lot of New Zealanders, you know, that is
something absolutely you know, it's not just a nice to have.
They rely on it.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, I don't know, Thomas, do you want to get
involved in this?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I love to get involved.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Well hang on, no, hold on then if you want
to get involved, I'm taking a break and we're going
to hear it after the break, Right, you're back with
the huddle, Thomas scrimser Mark Sainsbury gone, then, Thomas, what
do you want to say?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well? I was getting you know, I'm a head up
of steam for a sermon about superannuation means test today
means test forever. It's you know, we've got Chris besherflan
to quible about two billion dollars the Central Rail length
twenty five billion dollars a year every year for super.
If it's a poverty prevention mechanism, give it to people
who are poor. You're rich, you don't need it.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, but I'm going to get my accountant to rearrange
my affairs so I look poor when I'm not actually poor,
because you know that's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Thomas, Well, yeah, but if we're saying that, you know,
people can commit tax evasion if they get their accountant
to do stuff. But for twenty five billion dollars, we
only have to carve out, you know, for certain numbers
of people. Means testing this is definitely doable. We means
test welfare, we can means test super. Sooper's just another
kind of benefit.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, we're probably on the path to that now. Saying so,
how do you feel, as a Wellington City rappayer about
the fact that Wellington City staffers have quietly exempted themselves
from a new law.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Oh God, I'm sick of I'm sick of sick of
logging on seeing more. Yeah, look, it was even though
they were entitled to do it. They haven't breaken any rules.
What kind of sort of nuse does anyone have not
to think? Hang on, this is a particularly tricky and
sensitive issue given everything that's gone on. They should, at
(07:03):
the very least, the CEO should have told the mayor.
For the counselors to find out literally by excellent day
they're hearing someone else is just not acceptable.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
It's in real life. And Thomas, especially when you think
that the law that they've exempted themselves from is a
law that makes it easier to fire well paid managers
without having to give them a golden handshake. And they
have too many stuff like they have at least a
couple of hundred too many stuff they need to fire people.
Why would you exempt yourselves?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And you got to reckon, You've got to, like, you know,
respect the game. Though right here, you know, I just
quietly slide the papers across, like I'm impressed.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
But I know, but what is this? What's the follow up?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Is it? Hate? What?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Don't hate the player? Hate the game?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Well, you know, I think the mayor should be pretty
hacked off. And you know it's going to make some
hay about it and the counselors, because obviously taxpayers are
going to be pretty pretty aggrieved, like Wellington City councils
not thriving and its performance, shall we say put it kindly,
you know. So the fact that they are giving themselves
some you know, potentially sweetness in the contract is not
(08:06):
looking after the interest of taxpatter. So yeah, not a
good look really, and it's going to cause them problems
down the road.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I've got a solution, Saneso. What we need to do
is you and I just quietly, does will quietly decide
to exempt you from your rates. How would you like that?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It don't get me stuff from the bloody right. I've
got the leader from the council practically doubling them, telling
them at the same time, we're cutting the value of
your house by twenty five percent. That's true much.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
It's because they've got to pay the Golden handshake to
the forty two people on I'm.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So pleased going to summery deserving somebody poor.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, absolutely, thank you so much, guys, appreciate it. Thomas Scriminger,
Mark Sainsbrooer huddle this evening for more from hither Duplessy
Allen Drive. Listen live to news talks it'd be from
four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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