August 11, 2026 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union and Jack Tame from ZB's Saturday Mornings and Q&A joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Chris Luxon's political future is hanging in the balance ahead of tomorrow's big meeting. Will he survive, or will he be rolled? Will Erica Stanford or Chris Bishop replace him?
What do we make of Chris Hipkins' plan to help small businesses join the AI revolution?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the huddle of this this evening, Jordan Williams and
Jack Tame high lads. The snuffs, haven't you?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Jordan's no, I don't smoke now the snus the snuffs?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
No, have you never done that?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
But it should be about it should be legalized in
New Yelling because we're the Swede of the lowest cancer
rates in the world and the other highest uses of us.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Have you ever done it?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Jack, I've done snurf. I did the snooze challenge. This
is probably not the sort I want to be. I'm
not advocating for the snooze challenge, but so I've never
This is not going to come to the huge spride.
I've never smoked a single cigarette in my life, right, never,
because why would you. It's totally irrational.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Achieve a husky broadcast of voice. If you don't, don't
it's the problem.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah. But if you've never had nicotine and then you
put a little pouch of snooz under your lip for
a few minutes, especially a strong patch of snook, the
room is spinning within about thirty seconds. Yet it's deeply unpleasant.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, I'd imagine, all right, Christopher Lux and Jordan is
he going to survive tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I don't think he is, and it doesn't but I
don't have any joy in that. My phone, like everyone's
in public affairs, is running red hot to be ready
clear from the start because there is diametrically opposed views
and among our twenty five thousand donors the tax Bars Union,
it's probably a little bit hard on a week ago
on the show where I said he's either a wounded
prime minister or a dead man walking, I think it's
(01:19):
past that now. Anyone though, who tells you they know
who's going to come through the middle or who's going
to win, is lying to you. It is a very
split caucus. But I think even if he wins tomorrow,
it's just not tenable that he can get He is
now so wounded, and as I say, it doesn't give
me great joy in that. I come to your view
that if it could have, if it should have been done,
(01:41):
it should.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Have already been done. Yeah, Jack, what do you think?
Does he survive tomorrow or not?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
But I don't know, but I think of the two options,
it's less likely that he survives. And I have not
been someone who's been calling for him to go, or
he's been picking that he would go before this, But
I think there are a couple of factors at play.
First of all, from the calls that I've had within
the party, my understanding is that there are MPs who
supported him last time who are angry and are really
(02:10):
unhappy with his performance the last couple of weeks, and
that quite feasibly their position in supporting him.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Has changed since the last vote of confidence.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
I would also say that even if tonight or tomorrow
doesn't end up in a vote of confidence the formal one,
the mere fact that you are in a position with
a quasi second vote of confidence in your leadership within
a short space of time is in itself an answer.
I also think I think there are several questions that
MP's are facing. Not just can National Form be in
(02:41):
a position to former government under Christopher Luxen's leadership post
November seventh. I think National is still likelier than not
to be in a position to former government, but I
think the question of what that government will look like
is increasingly gnawing at some of those some of those
members of the caucus. For example, is National facing a
scenario where it only has ten members in cabinet and
(03:04):
what would that mean for a policy agenda? And I
think those are the kinds of questions that increasingly members
of the Caucus are starting to grapple with.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Jack. Is one of the people you've spoken to who
is angry Chris Pink.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
I'm not going to reveal anyone that I've spoken the
names of anyone I've spoken to. I mean, I'm just
like everyone else dialing numbers. Answer and then promise thing
that I wouldn't owe.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
You would to speculate. Would you say that Chris Pink
is angry?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I would I would never speculate. All I would say
is that I don't think there has been any one
incident from the Prime Minister that has been a death knell,
as it were. But I do think that, you know,
people will roll their eyes and say this is just
the media. I do think communication is an absolutely vital
(03:52):
part of the job. I actually think this is what
cost Keir Starman. I don't want to compare the two,
but I think the Prime Minister would be the first
to admit that at times his communication beat him down,
and when compared to some of his predecessors, he isn't
as strong a communicator. And you know, take last Thursday,
for example. I mean, the announcing that you back a
referendum on MMP might not be the end of the
(04:13):
world in itself a captain's call, but it was on
the day that label was confirming they were scrapping investment
boost I mean, the one of the biggest opportunities for
National to go after the opposition, and it meant that
all of the attention was taken away from that and
focused on the Prime Minister and said and it's that
kind of discipline that I think is really or lack
of discipline that is really starting to irritate from MPs.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
All right, let's let's I want to hear what you've
got to say. Jordan, you have to take a quick
break and we'll come back to it. Right, you're back
with the huddle, Jack Tam Jordan Williams. Jordan, tell me
who have you spoken to it? Well, you can't tell
me who, but what are you hearing.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I spoke to three of the six leadership contenders that
are out there and they all broadly agree with this.
Because there's lots of courses, competing rumors, everyone's trying to
plant their own one, but they all broadly agree that
it's roughly sixteen of the national Party caucus want to
role the leader and have an open ballot. Sixteen won
a roll, but only if there is a it's a
(05:05):
smooth transition and they've got a consensus. Candidate sixteen want
to roll, but only after the election. They're the one
sort of you know, lexcut the horses, and one is
for keeping Chris Luxon. Would I assume that's Chris Larson,
But as I say, three cabinet ministers said, that's broadly
right to me. In terms of Pink, there's like competing rumors.
(05:28):
Like literally in the last hour, I've heard one senior
cabinet minister really annoyed definitely in that sixteen of of role,
but only after is annoyed that Chris Pink is the
one agitating. And I'm obviously not spoken to Chris Pink,
but to.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Them now that Chris Pink is the one doing this,
Yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
But the thing is is during everyone is trying to
frame the narrative without having their fingerprints all over it. Yes,
so that's the way the stuff works. But then also
someone's putting about that he's potentially the compromise candidate.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh what that he comes through the middle. He comes
through the middle, is a stalking horse for Bishop.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, well that was what That's what some people are saying.
But it's really hard outside that. The thing is in
politics is often the perception tuned into the reality. Yes,
and so that they want the talking kids. What is interesting, though,
is that no one is defending luxen Or and it's
not actually just the stuff ups the m MP the
road to ruer, this tax grew up, of watering down
(06:27):
you're the one stick to whack labor with, of no
new taxes of working people. But the best that is
it's too risky to move him on. And the only
opy it I've seen actually defending him is Liam here
and that's always sort of been Luckxon's problem is that
he doesn't really have the crowd around him. And what
(06:49):
I hear, well, yeah, that's that's I mean, John, And
we know, you know, I think the same person you
were speaking to I've been speaking to about you know,
who's saying John Key's making making calls. But actually the
issue is the relationship between the PMO, the Prime Minister,
and caucus, because he's treated the caucus as if they're
his senior management team, when actually it is a strange relationship.
(07:12):
It's a little bit like it's more actually that they
are his board as well, because the power of the
caucus is even the most lonely backbencher who is largely ignored.
But in theory, you are the first among equals. And
you know Luxon is as he's going to find out
at nine thirty tomorrow, if not earlier, that he is
(07:34):
ultimately accountable to them.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Okay, Jack, what do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Does it? Is it?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Erica?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I have no idea as to who the as he
is role as to who the leader would be. I mean,
I think it's pretty obvious that there are some standout
members of cabinet who also happen to be stand out communicators,
often for whatever reason, that that arguably the strongish perform Yeah.
Well give me some of the strongest performers in terms
(08:03):
of cabinet portfolios this term. The likes of Chris Bishop,
the likes of ericas Stanford, even the likes of Mark Mitchell.
Also people who are pretty pretty confident and astute communicators.
And I think if you are asking for someone to
pick up the pieces after a leadership coup, pull the
(08:24):
caucus together and put the party in the best position
with you know, a fewer than one hundred days to
an election. You need someone who is going to not
require any media training. Who's gonna who's going to come
in on on morning number one and hit the ball
out of the park. And I would have thought there
are a few a few contenders there, ad Nicola willis to.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
It if you like. As well. From the communication.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Perspective, yeah, yeah, nearly.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
From a communication perspective.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It's interesting that in the in the focus groups that
we've been testing out our various election campaign both and
some of the messaging it is not actually Luxon that's coming.
We're only testing swing voters, the fifteen percent that shifted
from center left to center right the last selection. But
lux and didn't come up. It was all and the
(09:13):
scary thing for the NATS is that all the stuff
around costs of living and better management of the economy
is just falling flat. And a focus group after focus
group for US showed this all routes Unfortunately, you know,
lead back to Nicola. Because people are not feeling better
off than last time. You give them the message that
you remember what labor did, they overspent, they drove the
(09:36):
cost of living crisis. The common thing was, but I
feel way better off now.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah. Listen, Jack, do you want ten seconds? You have
ten seconds to reply if you want no.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
If you ask the average voter, do you feel better
off today than you did three years ago? I don't
think the answer currently is in the NAT Faber right.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Hey guys, thanks very much. I do appreciate both of
you coming in that. Jordan Williams and Jack Tamer huddle
this evening.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
For more from Hither dup Alan Drive, listen live to
News Talks it B from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
On the huddle of this this evening, Jordan Williams and
Jack Tame high lads. The snuffs, haven't you?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Jordan's no, I don't smoke now the snus the snuffs?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
No, have you never done that?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
But it should be about it should be legalized in
New Yelling because we're the Swede of the lowest cancer
rates in the world and the other highest uses of us.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Have you ever done it?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Jack, I've done snurf. I did the snooze challenge. This
is probably not the sort I want to be. I'm
not advocating for the snooze challenge, but so I've never
This is not going to come to the huge spride.
I've never smoked a single cigarette in my life, right, never,
because why would you. It's totally irrational.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Achieve a husky broadcast of voice. If you don't, don't
it's the problem.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah. But if you've never had nicotine and then you
put a little pouch of snooz under your lip for
a few minutes, especially a strong patch of snook, the
room is spinning within about thirty seconds. Yet it's deeply unpleasant.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, I'd imagine, all right, Christopher Lux and Jordan is
he going to survive tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I don't think he is, and it doesn't but I
don't have any joy in that. My phone, like everyone's
in public affairs, is running red hot to be ready
clear from the start because there is diametrically opposed views
and among our twenty five thousand donors the tax Bars Union,
it's probably a little bit hard on a week ago
on the show where I said he's either a wounded
prime minister or a dead man walking, I think it's
(01:19):
past that now. Anyone though, who tells you they know
who's going to come through the middle or who's going
to win, is lying to you. It is a very
split caucus. But I think even if he wins tomorrow,
it's just not tenable that he can get He is
now so wounded, and as I say, it doesn't give
me great joy in that. I come to your view
that if it could have, if it should have been done,
(01:41):
it should.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Have already been done. Yeah, Jack, what do you think?
Does he survive tomorrow or not?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
But I don't know, but I think of the two options,
it's less likely that he survives. And I have not
been someone who's been calling for him to go, or
he's been picking that he would go before this, But
I think there are a couple of factors at play.
First of all, from the calls that I've had within
the party, my understanding is that there are MPs who
supported him last time who are angry and are really
(02:10):
unhappy with his performance the last couple of weeks, and
that quite feasibly their position in supporting him.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Has changed since the last vote of confidence.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
I would also say that even if tonight or tomorrow
doesn't end up in a vote of confidence the formal one,
the mere fact that you are in a position with
a quasi second vote of confidence in your leadership within
a short space of time is in itself an answer.
I also think I think there are several questions that
MP's are facing. Not just can National Form be in
(02:41):
a position to former government under Christopher Luxen's leadership post
November seventh. I think National is still likelier than not
to be in a position to former government, but I
think the question of what that government will look like
is increasingly gnawing at some of those some of those
members of the caucus. For example, is National facing a
scenario where it only has ten members in cabinet and
(03:04):
what would that mean for a policy agenda? And I
think those are the kinds of questions that increasingly members
of the Caucus are starting to grapple with.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Jack. Is one of the people you've spoken to who
is angry Chris Pink.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
I'm not going to reveal anyone that I've spoken the
names of anyone I've spoken to. I mean, I'm just
like everyone else dialing numbers. Answer and then promise thing
that I wouldn't owe.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
You would to speculate. Would you say that Chris Pink
is angry?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I would I would never speculate. All I would say
is that I don't think there has been any one
incident from the Prime Minister that has been a death knell,
as it were. But I do think that, you know,
people will roll their eyes and say this is just
the media. I do think communication is an absolutely vital
(03:52):
part of the job. I actually think this is what
cost Keir Starman. I don't want to compare the two,
but I think the Prime Minister would be the first
to admit that at times his communication beat him down,
and when compared to some of his predecessors, he isn't
as strong a communicator. And you know, take last Thursday,
for example. I mean, the announcing that you back a
referendum on MMP might not be the end of the
(04:13):
world in itself a captain's call, but it was on
the day that label was confirming they were scrapping investment
boost I mean, the one of the biggest opportunities for
National to go after the opposition, and it meant that
all of the attention was taken away from that and
focused on the Prime Minister and said and it's that
kind of discipline that I think is really or lack
of discipline that is really starting to irritate from MPs.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
All right, let's let's I want to hear what you've
got to say. Jordan, you have to take a quick
break and we'll come back to it. Right, you're back
with the huddle, Jack Tam Jordan Williams. Jordan, tell me
who have you spoken to it? Well, you can't tell
me who, but what are you hearing.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I spoke to three of the six leadership contenders that
are out there and they all broadly agree with this.
Because there's lots of courses, competing rumors, everyone's trying to
plant their own one, but they all broadly agree that
it's roughly sixteen of the national Party caucus want to
role the leader and have an open ballot. Sixteen won
a roll, but only if there is a it's a
(05:05):
smooth transition and they've got a consensus. Candidate sixteen want
to roll, but only after the election. They're the one
sort of you know, lexcut the horses, and one is
for keeping Chris Luxon. Would I assume that's Chris Larson,
But as I say, three cabinet ministers said, that's broadly
right to me. In terms of Pink, there's like competing rumors.
(05:28):
Like literally in the last hour, I've heard one senior
cabinet minister really annoyed definitely in that sixteen of of role,
but only after is annoyed that Chris Pink is the
one agitating. And I'm obviously not spoken to Chris Pink,
but to.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Them now that Chris Pink is the one doing this,
Yeah it is.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
But the thing is is during everyone is trying to
frame the narrative without having their fingerprints all over it. Yes,
so that's the way the stuff works. But then also
someone's putting about that he's potentially the compromise candidate.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh what that he comes through the middle. He comes
through the middle, is a stalking horse for Bishop.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, well that was what That's what some people are saying.
But it's really hard outside that. The thing is in
politics is often the perception tuned into the reality. Yes,
and so that they want the talking kids. What is interesting, though,
is that no one is defending luxen Or and it's
not actually just the stuff ups the m MP the
road to ruer, this tax grew up, of watering down
(06:27):
you're the one stick to whack labor with, of no
new taxes of working people. But the best that is
it's too risky to move him on. And the only
opy it I've seen actually defending him is Liam here
and that's always sort of been Luckxon's problem is that
he doesn't really have the crowd around him. And what
(06:49):
I hear, well, yeah, that's that's I mean, John, And
we know, you know, I think the same person you
were speaking to I've been speaking to about you know,
who's saying John Key's making making calls. But actually the
issue is the relationship between the PMO, the Prime Minister,
and caucus, because he's treated the caucus as if they're
his senior management team, when actually it is a strange relationship.
(07:12):
It's a little bit like it's more actually that they
are his board as well, because the power of the
caucus is even the most lonely backbencher who is largely ignored.
But in theory, you are the first among equals. And
you know Luxon is as he's going to find out
at nine thirty tomorrow, if not earlier, that he is
(07:34):
ultimately accountable to them.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Okay, Jack, what do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Does it? Is it?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Erica?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I have no idea as to who the as he
is role as to who the leader would be. I mean,
I think it's pretty obvious that there are some standout
members of cabinet who also happen to be stand out communicators,
often for whatever reason, that that arguably the strongish perform Yeah.
Well give me some of the strongest performers in terms
(08:03):
of cabinet portfolios this term. The likes of Chris Bishop,
the likes of ericas Stanford, even the likes of Mark Mitchell.
Also people who are pretty pretty confident and astute communicators.
And I think if you are asking for someone to
pick up the pieces after a leadership coup, pull the
(08:24):
caucus together and put the party in the best position
with you know, a fewer than one hundred days to
an election. You need someone who is going to not
require any media training. Who's gonna who's going to come
in on on morning number one and hit the ball
out of the park. And I would have thought there
are a few a few contenders there, ad Nicola willis to.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
It if you like. As well. From the communication.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Perspective, yeah, yeah, nearly.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
From a communication perspective.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It's interesting that in the in the focus groups that
we've been testing out our various election campaign both and
some of the messaging it is not actually Luxon that's coming.
We're only testing swing voters, the fifteen percent that shifted
from center left to center right the last selection. But
lux and didn't come up. It was all and the
(09:13):
scary thing for the NATS is that all the stuff
around costs of living and better management of the economy
is just falling flat. And a focus group after focus
group for US showed this all routes Unfortunately, you know,
lead back to Nicola. Because people are not feeling better
off than last time. You give them the message that
you remember what labor did, they overspent, they drove the
(09:36):
cost of living crisis. The common thing was, but I
feel way better off now.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah. Listen, Jack, do you want ten seconds? You have
ten seconds to reply if you want no.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
If you ask the average voter, do you feel better
off today than you did three years ago? I don't
think the answer currently is in the NAT Faber right.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Hey guys, thanks very much. I do appreciate both of
you coming in that. Jordan Williams and Jack Tamer huddle
this evening.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
For more from Hither dup Alan Drive, listen live to
News Talks it B from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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