March 23, 2026 • 11 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Trish Sherson from Sherson Willis PR and Child Fund CEO Josie Pagani joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more.
Credit ratings agency Fitch has downgraded New Zealand's rating - should we be worried about this? Does this go bigger than the Middle East conflict?
The Government has confirmed plans are in place to reveal a package to help households with the cost of fuel. Do we think this is a good idea?
Winston Peters delivered his State of the Nation speech yesterday - what did we think of this? Do we think this will help NZ First in the election?
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, a name
you can trust locally and globally. Either I'm thrilled with
Alfreingnado or joining New Zealand First. Have gotten to know
him on Monday night shows with Family First. I'm in
my early thirties. You will come back to that New
Zealand First stuff and just to tick with us right
now in the huddle though. Tris Sheerson of Sheerson Willis
PR and Joseph Acganni, the chief executive of Child Fund
(00:20):
High Ladies. Hi, right, jose you worried about the FIST
rating downgrade for the outlook.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I just think it buys into that whole narrative we've
got at the moment of right track, round track. The
country's headed in the wrong direction, and you're right, business confidence,
voters confidence. It's all to do with perception, isn't it.
And it's just this feeling now that we've been given
a warning and you know it could be a downgrade.
And I think that's where I mean, I know we're
(00:47):
going to talk about it, but I think that's the
problem with the government that they haven't managed the difficult stuff,
the trade offs the difficult storyline that things are hard,
times are tough, even before you know Trump's epic face
plant excursion into a run, haven't managed the sense that
these are tough times. Growth's gonna happen, you know, slowly,
(01:10):
it's not going to happen straight away. So as a result,
things like this just feed into that feeling we've got
that you've over promised and you're under delivered.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
We'll just say it, Josie, And you're actually not that
good at running the finances of the country like you
say you are.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yes, exactly, yes, I mean, I think it sort of
came also in line with the piece I saw from
Luke Malpass over the weekend, actually digging under the hood
of have we actually reduced debt like we've said we have,
have we reduced spending? And the numbers don't match up
with the spin that's been going on. And I think
(01:47):
what's happening here is that you can't bullshit the ratings agencies, right,
they look at the numbers, and I think, in fact,
this is a good thing because it's putting the government
on notice you have to be getting on top of debt,
and that's not what's happening and it's also a message
even though we are in a crisis, there is always
(02:08):
a crisis when you're in the government, and it doesn't
mean you can take your foot off the break of
the longer term stuff. And goodness knows. Ian Rennie, the
head of the Treasury, I think, has been doing a
fantastic job going around and being the adult in the room,
and he is really calling out this big stuff. He's
talking about where we headed in twenty thirty, if we
(02:28):
don't get on top of our debt, if we don't
tackle the big elephants in the room, like how we're
going to manage super And the interesting thing about Ian
Rennie is that he's actually been pretty politically agnostic.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Right. He's saying, there's two things you can do. Either
you cut more spending or you tax more. And those
are political decisions, right, and so he's not saying do
one or the other, but he is saying, you know,
for example, you look back on the first year of
this government and the first thing I did was a
tax cut. Now you know, you guys might go, great,
a tax cut, that's fantastic like that, but when it's
(03:01):
paid for out of debt, all it's doing is increasing.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
And be fair, it was okay at the time because
we actually thought they were going to follow through with
their spending cuts stuff as well, and then they didn't.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
But also they suggested a whole lot of spending cuts
around the public sector. But what they didn't do was
look at why the public sectors. Well, I mean, you're right,
I mean maybe it wasn't enough, but it wasn't. The
point is they didn't do that thinking about why is
the public sector not delivering what we need it to.
It's not just that it's got too many stuff, it's
actually that it's got a culture of risk averse, you know,
(03:32):
not taking, not actually innovating.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Not you need protest of ideas, so you.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Need proper reform. It's not just about cutting spending and
then you maybe have more growth.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, and let's be clear, the really frightening stuff is
the fact that we are now reliant on that because
we're borrowing so much every day, we are actually reliant
on the world to be funding us. So that that means,
you know, again when we when we get tough stuff happening,
makes it even harder for us.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
How do you feel, because Trisha, I'm quite cross about
lending to a profitable business like Meridian millions and millions
and millions of dollars to build EV charges that they
don't want to fund themselves. We're giving them free money.
It's not free money. We're paying for it because we
have to pay the interest on this. This, I think
is part of the problem. Is this corporate welfare at
a time when we're borrowing.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I would agree with that. I saw that announcement today
and again I thought this, if you know, don't forget this.
Government came in and whether you're into it or not,
but they wound back all of the progress around EV's right.
So they got rid of the EV discount, which sent
a signal to the market at that set they and
they took the tax off off the yats, so sent
(04:43):
a signal to the market to say, hey, EV's are out,
get back into petrol and diesel, which people have done.
You only need to look at the sales numbers then
to come in now and say hey, we've got was
it fifty million to fund EV charges up and down
the country. That is not a crisis intervention. That is
something that you do. Again, this is building critical infrastructure
(05:06):
for New Zealand. It's a long term investment. You don't
suddenly pop up in a crisis. And none of today.
There is nothing in today's announcement that is going to
help the supermarket worker or the factory worker who can't
afford people to be the management.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
But I want you your take on it, Joseph. But
we'll just get it after the break. I hang on
a teaketok the huddle with.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the only truly global brand.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Right back with the huddle, Trisius and Josephgani, Josie, what
do you say?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Oh, I want to start a campaign no rationing and
no bloody EV subsidies stop it. We've had it. We've
had enough of that. Just Cinda are doing. Government's phoned
and they want their EV subsidies back, but.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Old stop doing.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Three of us here at the table, and none of
us love this announcement today. So who does it appeal to?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So I think, and I think this is something we're
just talking about in the break, and you said it, Trisha.
I think that this is the problem the government's got.
It's kind of and I'm quoting you, untethered by ideology
and so they're pivoting just in the way that the
Labor government did so one thing, barking at every car.
So I don't know what they.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
But this is like, this is like something that was
on the bonfire of ideas that's come back. Isn't it
like they ditched and then brought it back.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
That's exactly right. So they're going from one thing they think, oh,
this will be popular evs and look, you know, fabea,
I'm meant to be the lefty on this side, but
I'm saying it's not not left wing to say, let
the market decide if EV's are going to be popular,
and if then you need charging stations, let Meridium pay,
Let the private sector pay. Unless if you're going to
give Tesla drivers a subsidy, then they can give way
(06:35):
to me at every blooming intersection in New Zealand. If
they're going to get yet another subsidy.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Fair enough, they have to go last on everything. Okay,
this brings us the entrish to New Zealand. First, if
National's problem is that it doesn't know what it stands
for anymore, and it's going flip flopping all over the show,
including the roads of national significance, potentially today flip flopping
all over, here comes New Zealand First to cut its
conservative lunch right. This is why New Zealand First is
going to do well.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Well. Let's remember, in thirty years of MMP elections, which
the anniversary is this is this election, we have never
seen a minor party in a coalition agreement whose vote
is increasing at this time of an election cycle. So
New Zealand First, traditionally it has been a huge dragon
(07:21):
its popularity whenever it's gone into government. I think the
difference this time round is that, as we've said, National,
in trying to appeal to everybody and be the quote
party of the consumer, they have lost their call vote.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You know, business.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Particularly they don't know what to trust in National because
they are ideologically sort of untethered to what you would
traditionally expect from National. They are not winning other votes.
They've got a big problem with the woman's vote.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
We know that.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
New Zealand First is making strides because they they unlike
Labor National, they are actually connecting with voters. If you
watched that speech yesterday and I did in an hour
and a half in I have to admit I fell asleep,
but it was only because it was ten thirty at night.
But I have been to the State of the Nation
speech this year. I was in the room for Luxen
(08:18):
and for Hipkins, and you could have heard a pin
drop yesterday. The difference with Winston he didn't have an AUTOQ.
He was talking directly to his audience, old school off notes.
He built in, you know, jokes that no one else
would get away with. But one of the bangers that
just made me laugh. He said, you know, the union
people these days have never done a hard day's work
(08:40):
in their life. And in fact, they would think Manual
Labor was a Mexican president. Which and how long as
has it been since you heard the crowd at a
political meeting constantly saying here, here, yeah, and you know,
and he was. He had that crowd absolutely alive. So
they have got the kind of connection that Labor and
National can only dream about. Whether or not you agree
(09:03):
with what's Winston saying, he is saying stuff that people
can actually connect with. He's not mincing, it's not weser words,
he's not, you know, giving off these sort of terrible,
stale key messages. So it is no wonder they are
on an absolute tear.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I think that's what it is. If you think why
Trump was so successful when he won the election that
you know, everyone sayd my god, he doesn't make any sense.
He's weaving, he's sort of swaying to YMCA and so on.
What Winston does is he just he doesn't talk. I mean,
he's the most establishment politician in Parliament. Doesn't talk like
an establishment politician. So he tells jokes like that. And
(09:43):
I also think he's going. He's they've found a really
good niche. It's not just that they're sweeping up some
national refugees. They're also sweeping up some labor disenfranchised votes
who are going and also Pacific Islanders right conservative, religious, Christian,
socially coned. I think socially conservative is what we're talking
(10:04):
about here, right because what New Zealand first, and I
would say this is Shane as much as Winston. What
they've done is they've also owned that territory about reindustrializing
New Zealand. We're going to return, we're going to reverse
the de industrializer, the good old of New Zealand. Then
we're going to get back to manufacturing. Who doesn't like that?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Well? Winston, interestingly, he spent at least twenty minutes of
that speech hitting directly to labor voters who are disenfranchised.
He's making a huge move on them.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
He actually named them labour voters. Come, You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Over here, and the other thing that he's doing. To
your point about Trump, Josie, he is completely reflecting to
voters the anger and worries that they feel right now.
That is why he's connecting with them.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
One thing he's got to be careful about is we're
peak woke. Glad it's over. I don't want the reverse,
which is the conservative version of a woke fight in
a culture battle, the pendulum swing. Guys, it's good to
talk to you. Thank you, fascinating, so much to talk about.
That's a huddle this evening, Tritan Josie.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Obviously.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
The huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, a name
you can trust locally and globally. Either I'm thrilled with
Alfreingnado or joining New Zealand First. Have gotten to know
him on Monday night shows with Family First. I'm in
my early thirties. You will come back to that New
Zealand First stuff and just to tick with us right
now in the huddle though. Tris Sheerson of Sheerson Willis
PR and Joseph Acganni, the chief executive of Child Fund
(00:20):
High Ladies. Hi, right, jose you worried about the FIST
rating downgrade for the outlook.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I just think it buys into that whole narrative we've
got at the moment of right track, round track. The
country's headed in the wrong direction, and you're right, business confidence,
voters confidence. It's all to do with perception, isn't it.
And it's just this feeling now that we've been given
a warning and you know it could be a downgrade.
And I think that's where I mean, I know we're
(00:47):
going to talk about it, but I think that's the
problem with the government that they haven't managed the difficult stuff,
the trade offs the difficult storyline that things are hard,
times are tough, even before you know Trump's epic face
plant excursion into a run, haven't managed the sense that
these are tough times. Growth's gonna happen, you know, slowly,
(01:10):
it's not going to happen straight away. So as a result,
things like this just feed into that feeling we've got
that you've over promised and you're under delivered.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
We'll just say it, Josie, And you're actually not that
good at running the finances of the country like you
say you are.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yes, exactly, yes, I mean, I think it sort of
came also in line with the piece I saw from
Luke Malpass over the weekend, actually digging under the hood
of have we actually reduced debt like we've said we have,
have we reduced spending? And the numbers don't match up
with the spin that's been going on. And I think
(01:47):
what's happening here is that you can't bullshit the ratings agencies, right,
they look at the numbers, and I think, in fact,
this is a good thing because it's putting the government
on notice you have to be getting on top of debt,
and that's not what's happening and it's also a message
even though we are in a crisis, there is always
(02:08):
a crisis when you're in the government, and it doesn't
mean you can take your foot off the break of
the longer term stuff. And goodness knows. Ian Rennie, the
head of the Treasury, I think, has been doing a
fantastic job going around and being the adult in the room,
and he is really calling out this big stuff. He's
talking about where we headed in twenty thirty, if we
(02:28):
don't get on top of our debt, if we don't
tackle the big elephants in the room, like how we're
going to manage super And the interesting thing about Ian
Rennie is that he's actually been pretty politically agnostic.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Right. He's saying, there's two things you can do. Either
you cut more spending or you tax more. And those
are political decisions, right, and so he's not saying do
one or the other, but he is saying, you know,
for example, you look back on the first year of
this government and the first thing I did was a
tax cut. Now you know, you guys might go, great,
a tax cut, that's fantastic like that, but when it's
(03:01):
paid for out of debt, all it's doing is increasing.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
And be fair, it was okay at the time because
we actually thought they were going to follow through with
their spending cuts stuff as well, and then they didn't.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
But also they suggested a whole lot of spending cuts
around the public sector. But what they didn't do was
look at why the public sectors. Well, I mean, you're right,
I mean maybe it wasn't enough, but it wasn't. The
point is they didn't do that thinking about why is
the public sector not delivering what we need it to.
It's not just that it's got too many stuff, it's
actually that it's got a culture of risk averse, you know,
(03:32):
not taking, not actually innovating.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Not you need protest of ideas, so you.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Need proper reform. It's not just about cutting spending and
then you maybe have more growth.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, and let's be clear, the really frightening stuff is
the fact that we are now reliant on that because
we're borrowing so much every day, we are actually reliant
on the world to be funding us. So that that means,
you know, again when we when we get tough stuff happening,
makes it even harder for us.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
How do you feel, because Trisha, I'm quite cross about
lending to a profitable business like Meridian millions and millions
and millions of dollars to build EV charges that they
don't want to fund themselves. We're giving them free money.
It's not free money. We're paying for it because we
have to pay the interest on this. This, I think
is part of the problem. Is this corporate welfare at
a time when we're borrowing.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I would agree with that. I saw that announcement today
and again I thought this, if you know, don't forget this.
Government came in and whether you're into it or not,
but they wound back all of the progress around EV's right.
So they got rid of the EV discount, which sent
a signal to the market at that set they and
they took the tax off off the yats, so sent
(04:43):
a signal to the market to say, hey, EV's are out,
get back into petrol and diesel, which people have done.
You only need to look at the sales numbers then
to come in now and say hey, we've got was
it fifty million to fund EV charges up and down
the country. That is not a crisis intervention. That is
something that you do. Again, this is building critical infrastructure
(05:06):
for New Zealand. It's a long term investment. You don't
suddenly pop up in a crisis. And none of today.
There is nothing in today's announcement that is going to
help the supermarket worker or the factory worker who can't
afford people to be the management.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
But I want you your take on it, Joseph. But
we'll just get it after the break. I hang on
a teaketok the huddle with.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the only truly global brand.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Right back with the huddle, Trisius and Josephgani, Josie, what
do you say?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Oh, I want to start a campaign no rationing and
no bloody EV subsidies stop it. We've had it. We've
had enough of that. Just Cinda are doing. Government's phoned
and they want their EV subsidies back, but.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Old stop doing.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Three of us here at the table, and none of
us love this announcement today. So who does it appeal to?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So I think, and I think this is something we're
just talking about in the break, and you said it, Trisha.
I think that this is the problem the government's got.
It's kind of and I'm quoting you, untethered by ideology
and so they're pivoting just in the way that the
Labor government did so one thing, barking at every car.
So I don't know what they.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
But this is like, this is like something that was
on the bonfire of ideas that's come back. Isn't it
like they ditched and then brought it back.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
That's exactly right. So they're going from one thing they think, oh,
this will be popular evs and look, you know, fabea,
I'm meant to be the lefty on this side, but
I'm saying it's not not left wing to say, let
the market decide if EV's are going to be popular,
and if then you need charging stations, let Meridium pay,
Let the private sector pay. Unless if you're going to
give Tesla drivers a subsidy, then they can give way
(06:35):
to me at every blooming intersection in New Zealand. If
they're going to get yet another subsidy.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Fair enough, they have to go last on everything. Okay,
this brings us the entrish to New Zealand. First, if
National's problem is that it doesn't know what it stands
for anymore, and it's going flip flopping all over the show,
including the roads of national significance, potentially today flip flopping
all over, here comes New Zealand First to cut its
conservative lunch right. This is why New Zealand First is
going to do well.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Well. Let's remember, in thirty years of MMP elections, which
the anniversary is this is this election, we have never
seen a minor party in a coalition agreement whose vote
is increasing at this time of an election cycle. So
New Zealand First, traditionally it has been a huge dragon
(07:21):
its popularity whenever it's gone into government. I think the
difference this time round is that, as we've said, National,
in trying to appeal to everybody and be the quote
party of the consumer, they have lost their call vote.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You know, business.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Particularly they don't know what to trust in National because
they are ideologically sort of untethered to what you would
traditionally expect from National. They are not winning other votes.
They've got a big problem with the woman's vote.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
We know that.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
New Zealand First is making strides because they they unlike
Labor National, they are actually connecting with voters. If you
watched that speech yesterday and I did in an hour
and a half in I have to admit I fell asleep,
but it was only because it was ten thirty at night.
But I have been to the State of the Nation
speech this year. I was in the room for Luxen
(08:18):
and for Hipkins, and you could have heard a pin
drop yesterday. The difference with Winston he didn't have an AUTOQ.
He was talking directly to his audience, old school off notes.
He built in, you know, jokes that no one else
would get away with. But one of the bangers that
just made me laugh. He said, you know, the union
people these days have never done a hard day's work
(08:40):
in their life. And in fact, they would think Manual
Labor was a Mexican president. Which and how long as
has it been since you heard the crowd at a
political meeting constantly saying here, here, yeah, and you know,
and he was. He had that crowd absolutely alive. So
they have got the kind of connection that Labor and
National can only dream about. Whether or not you agree
(09:03):
with what's Winston saying, he is saying stuff that people
can actually connect with. He's not mincing, it's not weser words,
he's not, you know, giving off these sort of terrible,
stale key messages. So it is no wonder they are
on an absolute tear.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I think that's what it is. If you think why
Trump was so successful when he won the election that
you know, everyone sayd my god, he doesn't make any sense.
He's weaving, he's sort of swaying to YMCA and so on.
What Winston does is he just he doesn't talk. I mean,
he's the most establishment politician in Parliament. Doesn't talk like
an establishment politician. So he tells jokes like that. And
(09:43):
I also think he's going. He's they've found a really
good niche. It's not just that they're sweeping up some
national refugees. They're also sweeping up some labor disenfranchised votes
who are going and also Pacific Islanders right conservative, religious, Christian,
socially coned. I think socially conservative is what we're talking
(10:04):
about here, right because what New Zealand first, and I
would say this is Shane as much as Winston. What
they've done is they've also owned that territory about reindustrializing
New Zealand. We're going to return, we're going to reverse
the de industrializer, the good old of New Zealand. Then
we're going to get back to manufacturing. Who doesn't like that?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Well? Winston, interestingly, he spent at least twenty minutes of
that speech hitting directly to labor voters who are disenfranchised.
He's making a huge move on them.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
He actually named them labour voters. Come, You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Over here, and the other thing that he's doing. To
your point about Trump, Josie, he is completely reflecting to
voters the anger and worries that they feel right now.
That is why he's connecting with them.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
One thing he's got to be careful about is we're
peak woke. Glad it's over. I don't want the reverse,
which is the conservative version of a woke fight in
a culture battle, the pendulum swing. Guys, it's good to
talk to you. Thank you, fascinating, so much to talk about.
That's a huddle this evening, Tritan Josie.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Obviously.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Kingdom of Fraud
It’s the unlikeliest of criminal partnerships: a devout polygamist from an insular Utah sect joining forces with a shadowy Armenian tycoon from LA. The result - a billion dollar fraud conspiracy. In Kingdom of Fraud, investigative reporter Michele McPhee traces the origins of the extraordinary alliance between Jacob Kingston and Levon Termendzhyan. Together, the two men trigger the largest tax investigation in American history and weave around themselves a web of dirty cops, influential political relationships and transnational money laundering. All this is set against the backdrop of Jacob Kingston’s clan – The Order. A powerful and secretive polygamist organization in Salt Lake City. To whom Jacob is desperate to prove his worth. Kingdom of Fraud is produced by Novel for iHeart Podcasts. For more from Novel, visit https://novel.audio/. You can listen to new episodes of Kingdom of Fraud completely ad-free and 1 week early with an iHeart True Crime+ subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Open your Apple Podcasts app, search for “iHeart True Crime+, and subscribe today!