June 8, 2026 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Auckland Councillor Maurice Williamson and Child Fund CEO Josie Pagani joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
There's no policy out of Labour just yet, but the party's unveiled their list. What did we make of it? Who stood out? Should Rakesh Naidoo have been allowed to stand?
New data shows Kiwi renters are better off than they were a year ago. Is this news encouraging?
Do we need to outlaw run it straight?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So on the hold today we've got Morris Williams and
Orkland City councilor and former MP, and Josey Pagani joins
us as well.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello people, Hello to Andrew.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's been a bad hour for Christopher Hipkins with the
announcement from Richard Chambers that he had no idea that
they do on his list was going to seek candidacy.
How did you what did you make of all of that, Josey.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Well, I actually think rakishn I do is one of
the stronger candidates in that sort of top list, So
I mean it's all a bit messy, yes, but I
think it'll part and he'll end up being one of
the stronger ones on a list which looking at it,
I'd have to say is predominantly driven by old identity
politics and the sort of activist approach that the Labor
(00:44):
Party used to take under the last government. And you know,
look at the constitution of the Labor Party, Andrew, and
it's there to govern on behalf of working people. It's
not there to be a protest movement. And what worries
me about that list is the likes of a new
mens me this, the likes of Craig Rennie. And I'm
sure if you you know, you might not like what
(01:05):
Craig Rennie says if you're not a labor supporter. But
he's a serious heavy weight for labor, and he's way
down in the fifties, and he is not standing in
a seat that's going to be easy to win. It
used to be a safe labor seat. It's wrong a tie,
but it's now Wellington Bays. It's a pretty safe green
seat these days. So I don't understand why they've put
(01:25):
people like him down the list, muck up the announcement
of a good, cant really strong candidate like Lakeish, and
then put a whole bunch of activists that no one's
ever heard of at the top of the list.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, I saw that. The Christopher can say, look this
foot Bright scholars on here and Rhodes scholars here, And
I'm thinking, what do working people actually care about those
sorts of qualifications? Maris, what did you make of it?
And what did you make of the n I do
appointment process?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well? I was gobsmacked about then I do thing because
I was working at a New Zealand in nineteen eighty
six when I had decided I'd seek selection for the
National Party and as soon as I got selected, I
was told by in New Zealand I needed to stand
down for a year, which I did on no pay.
And I went from August nineteen eighty six till the
(02:13):
elections in July of nineteen eighty seven on no pay.
I just can't believe that this wasn't organized so that
when the announcement came he would then vacate the position,
go from the police, or at least stand down until
after the election. Just a messy. I mean, you know
how important it is and to have neutrality within the
police as vital, and how that wasn't organized well in advance.
(02:34):
So that was Richard Chambers coming out to night saying
he doesn't think it's tenable. I think it damn well
isn't tenable.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, And this is the thing Jersey has ended out
in aid. He said, scenario between Chambers and Hipkins, and
that's not good.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
No, I mean, I do think Rakesha is a senior
police officer and he told a supervisor okay, but probably
he should have taken responsibility to to make sure that
the leadership of the police knew that he was going
to take a political position, and I mean it it
is a little bit more sensitive for the police. But
you know, I think the bigger issue here, Andrew, I
(03:09):
look at that list for Labor and you know, whether
it's a national party list or whatever. I think one
of the criticisms that people had about m MP right
at the very beginning was the idea that party officials
and officionados are kind of deciding who will be in
Parliament on these secret party lists. I actually think some
of the discussions we're having around all of this tells
(03:32):
you that maybe we should have open lists. I think
the case gets stronger and stronger for people to vote
on who should be on those party lists.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
They do in the States. They have primaries and so on,
so that those candidates have a mandate rather than this,
you know, who's popular with the party, you know, constantly
arges back in the back dark course.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Of course, of course, the more.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Important thing about the more important thing about this is
the structure they've got here. You've got last election, they
got seventeen constituency seats and seventeen lists, but they only
sort of won some of their constituencies by I don't know, eighteen.
I think in Mount Albert about one hundred and thirty elsewhere.
So now you've got a whole lot of people like
(04:14):
Ginny Anderson in South and Curan macinnulty and whire reference
on who if they do well and are going to
really put a real they will come back in this
constituent mpiece. It means you'll get a very very short
number of people coming off Labour's list, and if that's
the case, heaps and heaps of their sitting members of
Parliament are gone because they've been placed so far down
(04:35):
down the list exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And also Chris Hipkins was very proud of the fact
that the diversity, you know that the gender balance, the diversity.
I don't understand Marris why he even mentions that. I
mean he may be thinking that, but why does he
even mention that, because it suggests that people out there
on their merits.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
And Morris, I'm bucking in because I've furious serious because
this is where the Life Party went wrong last time
and it's doing it again. It's like it hasn't learned
me lessons. And even the way that Chippy talked about
Rakish Naidu, who I think is a very strong candidate.
The first thing he said about him is that he's
(05:13):
got ethnic identity and he's got ethnic friends. I'm sure
he brings a hell of a lot more to the
Labor Party than the fact that he's got a minority
ethnicity identity. He didn't talk about law and order, didn't
talk about keeping communities safe. Tippy just identified him on
his ethnicity.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Good point. Josey mcganney, Marris Williamson, The Huddle back after
too well on the Huddle Marris Williamson, Josey Peganey and
Morris Oh my goodness me a part of the housing
crisis finally over rents it going down.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, look, I find this hilarious. I mean the other
side of the house, we're climbing into the National Party
and the Coalition team in a dreadful poor housing and
rentals and all that. Well under them, it was just
going through the roof and the numbers were astronomical. And
now suddenly the new government get and said we're going
to do something about it. Oh year, right, I bet
(06:05):
you don't. Well, where's all the media coverage now about
fantastic outcomes and really BIPs and rental index and so on,
And it's a fantastic outcome for people.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Did you not hear my editorial at five twenty five today.
I was saying, finally some good news, but they did.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Not, And I apologize for a few go back and
do it as soon as we hang up.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
We've been complaining about this, Josie, for you and I
for fifteen years, if not longer. About you know, the
rents keep going up, the houses keep going up, and
anyone was saying political parties coming out saying we'll control
the increase. Now it happens and people are starting to go, oh,
but now I don't have capital gain, I don't have
money to spend, and now I'm not getting rents and
they're starting to complain about it. Be careful what you
(06:47):
wish for, Josie.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Oh, we're always going to be miserable about something. But
I think Morris, that's a little bit partizan of you though,
because I mean to be fair, this started in terms
of supply, and that's really what's leading this is housing supply.
We've got more houses being built and that did start
under the last Labor government, and you're right, Morris, Nationals
(07:09):
continued it, and so I think actually both parties deserve
some credit for this. Because the big change that we're
seeing is the increase in supply. Now there's also things
like that the NATS have have reintroduced interest deductibility, and
possibly that has also impacted because landlords no longer need
(07:30):
to recoup quite so much. Although I do agree with
Schamabalaca the simplicity economists who said that that rents are
pretty much determined by what tenants can pay, so their
ability to pay, rather than landlord's costs. So there's a
whole bunch of things that are contributed to it.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But I think, though I've got to defend myself here,
my point was that when national we're making all these
changes to policy, the other side was saying this won't work,
this won't do anything, this will make rents more expensive,
And of course the alternative outcome has come about. And
I don't hear Chris Hopkins one at any stag saying, well,
at least what the government has done is it's done
(08:07):
something about rental costs. You don't hear a mutter, not
a Mermaod Morris.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
The people aren't also congratulating the Labor Party for thrusting
us into an economic situation where we're in a recession.
And that the money got more and more expensive, and
it got harder and harder to actually have any spare
money to invest.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So thank you Labor, Absolutely correct.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I would say also Sectives could say you're welcome. We
started building more houses under the last labor government, and
thank you to the nets they continued it.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So there are a lot of people whoa, how many
more houses did they? Yeah? How much?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
How many?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Not one?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Not one hundred thousand, that's.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
For sure, and that's good.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So Morris, rather than stop it national, the National has
done something, they've said that they're going to outlaw. Run
it straight at right, Morris? Or should we just sick
dawanism take its course. I mean, it's your your body,
it's your personal property. You can do what you like.
If you want to run at somebody and kill yourself,
that's your choice.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Or no.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I'm very reluctant to try to be you know, nanny
state and control things. But what I do find unbearable
is that if anybody does cause themselves harm and damage,
you can be up for hundreds of thousands, if not more,
in acc costs that we're all going to pay for.
So how about we do this? How about when you
want to play the run at straight and you want
to enter the competition. When you fill out your form
at the bottom, you sign an ACC waiver says if
(09:34):
you're ever hurt, damaged or anything during this nonsensical sport,
you're not covered by the ACC levees that are poor old,
hard working key we's having to pay so you can
go out and be an idiot. I'd let them go ahead.
Then I'd let them play and do what they like,
and they're just not covered for any costs if they
happen to break their heads open. Boy.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Look, boys are always going to do stupid things like
run at each other and try and hurt each other.
Although to be fair, girls do it too. Where I
grew up in the tiny village and the Cotswolds, we
had a game where we take the breaks off our
bikes and we go down the steepest possible hill and
the person who wins is the person who doesn't fall
off and stays on. So there are multiple broke broken arms.
(10:15):
But I think that the issue here is more about
the fact that it's become a bit of a business
where there are large cash prizes and you know, it's
a bit like cage fighting or dog fighting or something
like that. So I think, yeah, I agree with Mitch
to change the legislation.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Good on you, Josie began, Yeah, I used to play
that game with the bikes as well. Nobody died. It
is seven to six.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks they'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
So on the hold today we've got Morris Williams and
Orkland City councilor and former MP, and Josey Pagani joins
us as well.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello people, Hello to Andrew.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's been a bad hour for Christopher Hipkins with the
announcement from Richard Chambers that he had no idea that
they do on his list was going to seek candidacy.
How did you what did you make of all of that, Josey.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Well, I actually think rakishn I do is one of
the stronger candidates in that sort of top list, So
I mean it's all a bit messy, yes, but I
think it'll part and he'll end up being one of
the stronger ones on a list which looking at it,
I'd have to say is predominantly driven by old identity
politics and the sort of activist approach that the Labor
(00:44):
Party used to take under the last government. And you know,
look at the constitution of the Labor Party, Andrew, and
it's there to govern on behalf of working people. It's
not there to be a protest movement. And what worries
me about that list is the likes of a new
mens me this, the likes of Craig Rennie. And I'm
sure if you you know, you might not like what
(01:05):
Craig Rennie says if you're not a labor supporter. But
he's a serious heavy weight for labor, and he's way
down in the fifties, and he is not standing in
a seat that's going to be easy to win. It
used to be a safe labor seat. It's wrong a tie,
but it's now Wellington Bays. It's a pretty safe green
seat these days. So I don't understand why they've put
(01:25):
people like him down the list, muck up the announcement
of a good, cant really strong candidate like Lakeish, and
then put a whole bunch of activists that no one's
ever heard of at the top of the list.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, I saw that. The Christopher can say, look this
foot Bright scholars on here and Rhodes scholars here, And
I'm thinking, what do working people actually care about those
sorts of qualifications? Maris, what did you make of it?
And what did you make of the n I do
appointment process?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well? I was gobsmacked about then I do thing because
I was working at a New Zealand in nineteen eighty
six when I had decided I'd seek selection for the
National Party and as soon as I got selected, I
was told by in New Zealand I needed to stand
down for a year, which I did on no pay.
And I went from August nineteen eighty six till the
(02:13):
elections in July of nineteen eighty seven on no pay.
I just can't believe that this wasn't organized so that
when the announcement came he would then vacate the position,
go from the police, or at least stand down until
after the election. Just a messy. I mean, you know
how important it is and to have neutrality within the
police as vital, and how that wasn't organized well in advance.
(02:34):
So that was Richard Chambers coming out to night saying
he doesn't think it's tenable. I think it damn well
isn't tenable.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, And this is the thing Jersey has ended out
in aid. He said, scenario between Chambers and Hipkins, and
that's not good.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
No, I mean, I do think Rakesha is a senior
police officer and he told a supervisor okay, but probably
he should have taken responsibility to to make sure that
the leadership of the police knew that he was going
to take a political position, and I mean it it
is a little bit more sensitive for the police. But
you know, I think the bigger issue here, Andrew, I
(03:09):
look at that list for Labor and you know, whether
it's a national party list or whatever. I think one
of the criticisms that people had about m MP right
at the very beginning was the idea that party officials
and officionados are kind of deciding who will be in
Parliament on these secret party lists. I actually think some
of the discussions we're having around all of this tells
(03:32):
you that maybe we should have open lists. I think
the case gets stronger and stronger for people to vote
on who should be on those party lists.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
They do in the States. They have primaries and so on,
so that those candidates have a mandate rather than this,
you know, who's popular with the party, you know, constantly
arges back in the back dark course.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Of course, of course, the more.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Important thing about the more important thing about this is
the structure they've got here. You've got last election, they
got seventeen constituency seats and seventeen lists, but they only
sort of won some of their constituencies by I don't know, eighteen.
I think in Mount Albert about one hundred and thirty elsewhere.
So now you've got a whole lot of people like
(04:14):
Ginny Anderson in South and Curan macinnulty and whire reference
on who if they do well and are going to
really put a real they will come back in this
constituent mpiece. It means you'll get a very very short
number of people coming off Labour's list, and if that's
the case, heaps and heaps of their sitting members of
Parliament are gone because they've been placed so far down
(04:35):
down the list exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And also Chris Hipkins was very proud of the fact
that the diversity, you know that the gender balance, the diversity.
I don't understand Marris why he even mentions that. I
mean he may be thinking that, but why does he
even mention that, because it suggests that people out there
on their merits.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
And Morris, I'm bucking in because I've furious serious because
this is where the Life Party went wrong last time
and it's doing it again. It's like it hasn't learned
me lessons. And even the way that Chippy talked about
Rakish Naidu, who I think is a very strong candidate.
The first thing he said about him is that he's
(05:13):
got ethnic identity and he's got ethnic friends. I'm sure
he brings a hell of a lot more to the
Labor Party than the fact that he's got a minority
ethnicity identity. He didn't talk about law and order, didn't
talk about keeping communities safe. Tippy just identified him on
his ethnicity.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Good point. Josey mcganney, Marris Williamson, The Huddle back after
too well on the Huddle Marris Williamson, Josey Peganey and
Morris Oh my goodness me a part of the housing
crisis finally over rents it going down.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, look, I find this hilarious. I mean the other
side of the house, we're climbing into the National Party
and the Coalition team in a dreadful poor housing and
rentals and all that. Well under them, it was just
going through the roof and the numbers were astronomical. And
now suddenly the new government get and said we're going
to do something about it. Oh year, right, I bet
(06:05):
you don't. Well, where's all the media coverage now about
fantastic outcomes and really BIPs and rental index and so on,
And it's a fantastic outcome for people.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Did you not hear my editorial at five twenty five today.
I was saying, finally some good news, but they did.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Not, And I apologize for a few go back and
do it as soon as we hang up.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
We've been complaining about this, Josie, for you and I
for fifteen years, if not longer. About you know, the
rents keep going up, the houses keep going up, and
anyone was saying political parties coming out saying we'll control
the increase. Now it happens and people are starting to go, oh,
but now I don't have capital gain, I don't have
money to spend, and now I'm not getting rents and
they're starting to complain about it. Be careful what you
(06:47):
wish for, Josie.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Oh, we're always going to be miserable about something. But
I think Morris, that's a little bit partizan of you though,
because I mean to be fair, this started in terms
of supply, and that's really what's leading this is housing supply.
We've got more houses being built and that did start
under the last Labor government, and you're right, Morris, Nationals
(07:09):
continued it, and so I think actually both parties deserve
some credit for this. Because the big change that we're
seeing is the increase in supply. Now there's also things
like that the NATS have have reintroduced interest deductibility, and
possibly that has also impacted because landlords no longer need
(07:30):
to recoup quite so much. Although I do agree with
Schamabalaca the simplicity economists who said that that rents are
pretty much determined by what tenants can pay, so their
ability to pay, rather than landlord's costs. So there's a
whole bunch of things that are contributed to it.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But I think, though I've got to defend myself here,
my point was that when national we're making all these
changes to policy, the other side was saying this won't work,
this won't do anything, this will make rents more expensive,
And of course the alternative outcome has come about. And
I don't hear Chris Hopkins one at any stag saying, well,
at least what the government has done is it's done
(08:07):
something about rental costs. You don't hear a mutter, not
a Mermaod Morris.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
The people aren't also congratulating the Labor Party for thrusting
us into an economic situation where we're in a recession.
And that the money got more and more expensive, and
it got harder and harder to actually have any spare
money to invest.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So thank you Labor, Absolutely correct.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I would say also Sectives could say you're welcome. We
started building more houses under the last labor government, and
thank you to the nets they continued it.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So there are a lot of people whoa, how many
more houses did they? Yeah? How much?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
How many?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Not one?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Not one hundred thousand, that's.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
For sure, and that's good.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So Morris, rather than stop it national, the National has
done something, they've said that they're going to outlaw. Run
it straight at right, Morris? Or should we just sick
dawanism take its course. I mean, it's your your body,
it's your personal property. You can do what you like.
If you want to run at somebody and kill yourself,
that's your choice.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Or no.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I'm very reluctant to try to be you know, nanny
state and control things. But what I do find unbearable
is that if anybody does cause themselves harm and damage,
you can be up for hundreds of thousands, if not more,
in acc costs that we're all going to pay for.
So how about we do this? How about when you
want to play the run at straight and you want
to enter the competition. When you fill out your form
at the bottom, you sign an ACC waiver says if
(09:34):
you're ever hurt, damaged or anything during this nonsensical sport,
you're not covered by the ACC levees that are poor old,
hard working key we's having to pay so you can
go out and be an idiot. I'd let them go ahead.
Then I'd let them play and do what they like,
and they're just not covered for any costs if they
happen to break their heads open. Boy.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Look, boys are always going to do stupid things like
run at each other and try and hurt each other.
Although to be fair, girls do it too. Where I
grew up in the tiny village and the Cotswolds, we
had a game where we take the breaks off our
bikes and we go down the steepest possible hill and
the person who wins is the person who doesn't fall
off and stays on. So there are multiple broke broken arms.
(10:15):
But I think that the issue here is more about
the fact that it's become a bit of a business
where there are large cash prizes and you know, it's
a bit like cage fighting or dog fighting or something
like that. So I think, yeah, I agree with Mitch
to change the legislation.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Good on you, Josie began, Yeah, I used to play
that game with the bikes as well. Nobody died. It
is seven to six.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks they'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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