April 15, 2026 • 11 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Auckland councillor Maurice Williamson and former Green MP Gareth Hughes joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Bunnings is set to begin rolling out facial recognition technology in some stores in order to combat retail crime. Do we think this is the way to go? Will other big stores follow suit?
Has the Government made the right call with the four-stage national fuel plan? Are we worried they're not taking things seriously?
Moana Pasifika is likely to shut down at the end of the 2026 Super Rugby season - what do we make of this? What do we think went wrong here?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the heart of Morris Williams and Auckland Council, a
former National Party minister and Gareth Hugh's director at the
Well Being Economy Alliance and former Green MP. Obviously, hello you.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Two, Gareth.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
How are you feeling about the facial recognition?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Well, I do go to Bunnings when I'm picking up
my compost or a bit of timber. Look, I'm already
you know, every time we get the super market we
seem to face this. So look, I think it's a
sad reality. You know, it's kind of closer to this
all pervasive surveillance state, kind of Chinese communist social credit.
Everything's being filmed. But as a consumer, I hate the
(00:35):
idea that I'm paying more because people are stealing products
or the workers are feeling unsafe. So I understand it
the opposite of the Privacy Commissioners come out with guidelines
to help protect us consumers. So yeah, I think it's
a sad reality.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Gareth. You haven't done anything wrong, You've got nothing to
worry about if for surveying us.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
No, that's right, and I'd love to live in a
world where people were abusing staff and weren't stealing products.
So we're not in the world, So that's why I
think it's an unfortunate reality and we're probably going to
see more of it. Where I think that the downside
is is when people get misidentified, you know, they look
like the person that's previously in the system, and let's
be frank, it's going to be people of a certain
color in this country. So that's why I think it's
(01:15):
good that they have looked at some of the Mahdi
data sovereignty in some of the impacts of those communities
as well.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Morris, what do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I think it's a great idea as a minister who
introduced Supgate to our report, so I could probably hardly
be against it. A bit of a problem, I guess
for Muslim woman won't be able to go hardware shopping.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I hadn't even thought of that. Do you think they're
going to be kept out? Are they?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well? I don't know. How are you going to tell
what's behind the little slit terms of who it is?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I don't know. Do you think bundings might just look
at it and go probably not a threat?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well letter in I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You never know.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Again, whatever there's little tie rags out there stealing from
them and just making everything more expensive for the rest
of us. I think it's bloody great and I have
no problem with it all. O can I?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Gareth Charmau Bill jakeb was on with us just after
five says he has concerns that there's not enough transparency
and the whole thing seems to be a little bit
too relaxed. This is the fuel plan. What do you think?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, I listened in on the interview and I agree
with him. I think he makes a great point. The
government should have been nothing to be afraid all of transparency.
We know the data can be up to a week old.
People are measuring different boats and different things in different ways,
so the more information that can be revealed the better.
But I think the major point that charmu Bill was
making is we do seem to be pretty relaxed here
(02:33):
in New Zealand. You know we've got maybe fifty plus
days for the different fuel types, but we know the
last boats pre war have sort of reached their destination.
The other boats haven't come out. We've got a blockade underway.
Buffers have been drawn down which have made a little
bit easier for us than this, and from interrectnum period.
But our government does seem pretty relaxed and casual about it,
(02:56):
whereas when you look across the ditch, Albanezi is really
hustling traveling to different supply of states. Some of the
states there made public transport free. Is a lot more
happening across the ditch than here.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, I think it's by design, Morris. I think it's
quite deliberate from the government. What do you think, well, I.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Mean, the first thing you don't want is cpl having
panic for no reason. I mean, God, we've already panicked
about bloody cyclone is going to tear us to shreds
and kill us in our beds, and it just comes
through with a bit of rain. And I just think
the government's handling this stuff really, really well. I think
that they were resisting pressure from every man and his
dog to give more money to somebody and give them
(03:34):
a payment and make a payment there, and deduct this
and get rid of rucktax here, and in the end
they're just taking it very calm and sensibly they've got
more information than the rest of us will ever have.
And I'm pretty sure they'd start to ramp things up
if they were getting panicked about it because they're not
selection year and they don't want to spoil it up.
But thank god they're doing it this way rather than
what the last lot did during COVID.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Gareth, you want to respond to that last light over
COVID saved an awful lot of life, have eventually saved
the economy. I'm not sing that we should be panicking here,
but look, a lot of you know, economists and experts
are saying we could be looking at some form of
rationing in the future. We don't have the information how
those decisions are going to be made. So I agree
(04:16):
again with Shummabil. You know, the government's been consulting on
this four step action plan, but it actually get some information.
You know, if we do it a should we end
up rationing, how that decision is going to be made,
Who's going to make it? What's the threshold?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Mercy? I know you love your little bit.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Well, the work's going on. Look that they're doing that work,
and I know exactly how the internals work in there,
and there won't be anyone something who cares, you know,
actually be right. So on. They'll be doing everything they
can to get as much information on the table and
do some really good analytics on it and so on.
They've got really good contacts with both South Korea and
Singapore in terms of supply and so on. I think
(04:51):
they're handling it really well. And the best thing we
can all do is not panic too much.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Now now, Morris, I know you love all your computer
stuff and all your data, and you're following this. Have
I got a text earlier? This is pat people are panicking, right,
So I've got a text earlier it said no more
ships coming in five weeks. Have you had a look
at that kind of stuff? Will we okay in five weeks?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
As far as I can tell, yes, And I truly
believe that the government, knowing it's an election year and
if they foul this up and we end up with
sort of no fuel and so on, after them having
told us they've got it all under control and so on,
they know it would be the end of the it'shober.
So I'm confident that the work's going on. They've got
pretty good people advising them in their teams. The analytics
will be pretty severe. I think we'll just have a
(05:33):
high price. That's always going to be the case because
of what's going on with the war, but I don't
think we'll end up with such a shortage. We'll have
rationing and people not being able to find fuel when
they edit.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
All right, we'll take a break. Come back to you
guys shortly.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's international real team, the
only truly global brand.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Okay, on the huddle with us again. We've got Morris
Williams and Gareth's Morris. I want to come back to
something you guys did at council level yesterday. But Gareth,
you're going to miss one in pacifica year.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
It's going to be quite sad. I mean, they've had
five seasons and they need to somehow find ten to
twelve million dollars. Well, this is the price for a
new owner. Rugby Football Union's posting a loss of nearly
twenty million last year. So I don't know what the
answer is. I just hope there are some of them
with deep pockets who can save the day. But also,
this is kind of the state of rugby today. It's
(06:21):
sort of it's a business. It's all about profit. I
watched an awesome game the Portugui versus Nartapa, and the
back box of Gisbourne recently and I loved it because
they're playing for passion, not for money.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
What made you go there, gares Well?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I was at a conference at a Mariah nearby and
I was heading home and I saw the game it
just started, So you just watched It was lovely.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Did you pull o that just to watch the game?
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I mean I've played rugby for many years and broken
my nose twice playing it, so I think it's a
beautiful game. And then she's seeing, you know, the amateurs
play it really well. It was wonderful.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I like you more every time I talked to you,
Garris or Morris. I mean, I think that the problem is, yeah,
they need ten to twelve million dollars. Whatever is not
going to happen. It's the end, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah. The problem with any professional sport nowadays is you've
got to get the audiences and you've got to have
them paying money, and you've got to be able to
fund things. And if specific sports that have become predominant
and others drop away, that will be just how the
market works. You know, rugby used to be the only
game in town and now there is so many different sports.
You can watch on a weekend and choose to and
(07:24):
women have got all the women's legs up as well,
and they've got to somehow be funded. I'm a big
fan of. If they can win an audience and pay
for themselves, good on them. And if they can't, this
idea that we'll use somewhat is it a Pacific Health
fund or something that will be paying them to keep
paying rugby is just madness.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
It was a charity funded by the government, so it
was not a great Yeah. Okay, Now yesterday I think
it was Auckland Council's Policy, Planning and Development Committee voted
fourteen to two to an investigation into supporting sanctions against
Israel over war crimes. Does that mean Morris?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Well, well guess where I was not that I was
in the two.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Were you kis me? What is this investigation? What is
the best case scenario that we get from this investigation?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, simply, Heather, I actually took it at a high
level than that. I just kept saying, we've got the
public angry at the biggest rate increase that we've ever
had as an Auckland Council, the seven point nine that's
our biggest ever We've got the government say I'm going
to stick a rates capin on you guys because you're
not sticking to what's your core role and function. And
I said, I'm sorry, but I just don't know why
(08:32):
we're getting involved in international affairs with regards to what
other countries are doing in the Middle East. So it's
not to do with whether one side's and the right
or wrong. I think they're all very tarnished enough. It's
not our role, it's not our role. Let's stay out
of it.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
That's exactly right because this investigation, If this investigation comes
back and says yes, Auckland Council, you should support sanctions,
then what happens. Does Auckland go out and go we
support sanctions against Israeli war crimes? Is that what's going
to happen?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, that probably be the next logical step for.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Some of the people that council things well.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Who knows where Auckland councilors. But more importantly, have a
look at some of our major trading banks. I mean,
where will we be banking in future? Because the vast
bulk of the trading banks around the world have investments
and sort of funds with companies that you might think
a dodgy or might argue one way or the other.
In the end here that we've got potholes, we've got
parks that need to be looked after, we've got foot
(09:28):
baths that need to be laid, and we've got a
bloody rate increase that keeps coming up and up in it.
And if the government's going to come in and put
a rates cap on us, then why I just said,
why don't we stick to what is our core role
and function and keep our bloody nose out of everything else?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Quite right, Gareth, Can you mount an argument for why
Auckland Council has to spend money doing this?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah, because I think Auckland Council Auckland is kiwis. We
are a country that believe in the rule of law.
We don't want to trade with those committing war crimes
or in this case, genocide. We don't want to buying
products from a legal occupied region. I think citizens want
to know that their rate payer money isn't contributing towards
causing harm, which was so egregious and wrong on the
(10:10):
other side of the world. So it could be a
I don't imagine it's a huge amount of money but
it can actually save money. If their trading was occupied territories,
they can stop that.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
But here the try doing the trace and track. So
many companies have subsidiaries and mothership companies and contracts somewhere else.
You can spend your whole bloody life trying a trace
and track to work out who's associated with what, and
I double dog there you to find a single major
trading bank that hasn't got something going on. And if
we're going to say they're all excluded there, where do
(10:44):
we even bank?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah? Garris, would you like to reply to that?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Well, I just think Auckland councils should probably be buying
more from Auckland businesses and spending money locally. That's probably
the easiest solution.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Or you've I've done all of the good work you
did with the your Portucky rugby game. Now I'm just crossing. Okay, guys,
have a good afternoon. Thank you so much, Morris Williamson, Gareth.
Here's a Hudle this evening.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
On the heart of Morris Williams and Auckland Council, a
former National Party minister and Gareth Hugh's director at the
Well Being Economy Alliance and former Green MP. Obviously, hello you.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Two, Gareth.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
How are you feeling about the facial recognition?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Well, I do go to Bunnings when I'm picking up
my compost or a bit of timber. Look, I'm already
you know, every time we get the super market we
seem to face this. So look, I think it's a
sad reality. You know, it's kind of closer to this
all pervasive surveillance state, kind of Chinese communist social credit.
Everything's being filmed. But as a consumer, I hate the
(00:35):
idea that I'm paying more because people are stealing products
or the workers are feeling unsafe. So I understand it
the opposite of the Privacy Commissioners come out with guidelines
to help protect us consumers. So yeah, I think it's
a sad reality.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Gareth. You haven't done anything wrong, You've got nothing to
worry about if for surveying us.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
No, that's right, and I'd love to live in a
world where people were abusing staff and weren't stealing products.
So we're not in the world, So that's why I
think it's an unfortunate reality and we're probably going to
see more of it. Where I think that the downside
is is when people get misidentified, you know, they look
like the person that's previously in the system, and let's
be frank, it's going to be people of a certain
color in this country. So that's why I think it's
(01:15):
good that they have looked at some of the Mahdi
data sovereignty in some of the impacts of those communities
as well.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Morris, what do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I think it's a great idea as a minister who
introduced Supgate to our report, so I could probably hardly
be against it. A bit of a problem, I guess
for Muslim woman won't be able to go hardware shopping.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I hadn't even thought of that. Do you think they're
going to be kept out? Are they?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well? I don't know. How are you going to tell
what's behind the little slit terms of who it is?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I don't know. Do you think bundings might just look
at it and go probably not a threat?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well letter in I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You never know.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Again, whatever there's little tie rags out there stealing from
them and just making everything more expensive for the rest
of us. I think it's bloody great and I have
no problem with it all. O can I?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Gareth Charmau Bill jakeb was on with us just after
five says he has concerns that there's not enough transparency
and the whole thing seems to be a little bit
too relaxed. This is the fuel plan. What do you think?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, I listened in on the interview and I agree
with him. I think he makes a great point. The
government should have been nothing to be afraid all of transparency.
We know the data can be up to a week old.
People are measuring different boats and different things in different ways,
so the more information that can be revealed the better.
But I think the major point that charmu Bill was
making is we do seem to be pretty relaxed here
(02:33):
in New Zealand. You know we've got maybe fifty plus
days for the different fuel types, but we know the
last boats pre war have sort of reached their destination.
The other boats haven't come out. We've got a blockade underway.
Buffers have been drawn down which have made a little
bit easier for us than this, and from interrectnum period.
But our government does seem pretty relaxed and casual about it,
(02:56):
whereas when you look across the ditch, Albanezi is really
hustling traveling to different supply of states. Some of the
states there made public transport free. Is a lot more
happening across the ditch than here.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, I think it's by design, Morris. I think it's
quite deliberate from the government. What do you think, well, I.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Mean, the first thing you don't want is cpl having
panic for no reason. I mean, God, we've already panicked
about bloody cyclone is going to tear us to shreds
and kill us in our beds, and it just comes
through with a bit of rain. And I just think
the government's handling this stuff really, really well. I think
that they were resisting pressure from every man and his
dog to give more money to somebody and give them
(03:34):
a payment and make a payment there, and deduct this
and get rid of rucktax here, and in the end
they're just taking it very calm and sensibly they've got
more information than the rest of us will ever have.
And I'm pretty sure they'd start to ramp things up
if they were getting panicked about it because they're not
selection year and they don't want to spoil it up.
But thank god they're doing it this way rather than
what the last lot did during COVID.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Gareth, you want to respond to that last light over
COVID saved an awful lot of life, have eventually saved
the economy. I'm not sing that we should be panicking here,
but look, a lot of you know, economists and experts
are saying we could be looking at some form of
rationing in the future. We don't have the information how
those decisions are going to be made. So I agree
(04:16):
again with Shummabil. You know, the government's been consulting on
this four step action plan, but it actually get some information.
You know, if we do it a should we end
up rationing, how that decision is going to be made,
Who's going to make it? What's the threshold?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Mercy? I know you love your little bit.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Well, the work's going on. Look that they're doing that work,
and I know exactly how the internals work in there,
and there won't be anyone something who cares, you know,
actually be right. So on. They'll be doing everything they
can to get as much information on the table and
do some really good analytics on it and so on.
They've got really good contacts with both South Korea and
Singapore in terms of supply and so on. I think
(04:51):
they're handling it really well. And the best thing we
can all do is not panic too much.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Now now, Morris, I know you love all your computer
stuff and all your data, and you're following this. Have
I got a text earlier? This is pat people are panicking, right,
So I've got a text earlier it said no more
ships coming in five weeks. Have you had a look
at that kind of stuff? Will we okay in five weeks?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
As far as I can tell, yes, And I truly
believe that the government, knowing it's an election year and
if they foul this up and we end up with
sort of no fuel and so on, after them having
told us they've got it all under control and so on,
they know it would be the end of the it'shober.
So I'm confident that the work's going on. They've got
pretty good people advising them in their teams. The analytics
will be pretty severe. I think we'll just have a
(05:33):
high price. That's always going to be the case because
of what's going on with the war, but I don't
think we'll end up with such a shortage. We'll have
rationing and people not being able to find fuel when
they edit.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
All right, we'll take a break. Come back to you
guys shortly.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's international real team, the
only truly global brand.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Okay, on the huddle with us again. We've got Morris
Williams and Gareth's Morris. I want to come back to
something you guys did at council level yesterday. But Gareth,
you're going to miss one in pacifica year.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
It's going to be quite sad. I mean, they've had
five seasons and they need to somehow find ten to
twelve million dollars. Well, this is the price for a
new owner. Rugby Football Union's posting a loss of nearly
twenty million last year. So I don't know what the
answer is. I just hope there are some of them
with deep pockets who can save the day. But also,
this is kind of the state of rugby today. It's
(06:21):
sort of it's a business. It's all about profit. I
watched an awesome game the Portugui versus Nartapa, and the
back box of Gisbourne recently and I loved it because
they're playing for passion, not for money.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
What made you go there, gares Well?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I was at a conference at a Mariah nearby and
I was heading home and I saw the game it
just started, So you just watched It was lovely.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Did you pull o that just to watch the game?
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I mean I've played rugby for many years and broken
my nose twice playing it, so I think it's a
beautiful game. And then she's seeing, you know, the amateurs
play it really well. It was wonderful.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I like you more every time I talked to you,
Garris or Morris. I mean, I think that the problem is, yeah,
they need ten to twelve million dollars. Whatever is not
going to happen. It's the end, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah. The problem with any professional sport nowadays is you've
got to get the audiences and you've got to have
them paying money, and you've got to be able to
fund things. And if specific sports that have become predominant
and others drop away, that will be just how the
market works. You know, rugby used to be the only
game in town and now there is so many different sports.
You can watch on a weekend and choose to and
(07:24):
women have got all the women's legs up as well,
and they've got to somehow be funded. I'm a big
fan of. If they can win an audience and pay
for themselves, good on them. And if they can't, this
idea that we'll use somewhat is it a Pacific Health
fund or something that will be paying them to keep
paying rugby is just madness.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
It was a charity funded by the government, so it
was not a great Yeah. Okay, Now yesterday I think
it was Auckland Council's Policy, Planning and Development Committee voted
fourteen to two to an investigation into supporting sanctions against
Israel over war crimes. Does that mean Morris?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Well, well guess where I was not that I was
in the two.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Were you kis me? What is this investigation? What is
the best case scenario that we get from this investigation?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, simply, Heather, I actually took it at a high
level than that. I just kept saying, we've got the
public angry at the biggest rate increase that we've ever
had as an Auckland Council, the seven point nine that's
our biggest ever We've got the government say I'm going
to stick a rates capin on you guys because you're
not sticking to what's your core role and function. And
I said, I'm sorry, but I just don't know why
(08:32):
we're getting involved in international affairs with regards to what
other countries are doing in the Middle East. So it's
not to do with whether one side's and the right
or wrong. I think they're all very tarnished enough. It's
not our role, it's not our role. Let's stay out
of it.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
That's exactly right because this investigation, If this investigation comes
back and says yes, Auckland Council, you should support sanctions,
then what happens. Does Auckland go out and go we
support sanctions against Israeli war crimes? Is that what's going
to happen?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Well, that probably be the next logical step for.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Some of the people that council things well.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Who knows where Auckland councilors. But more importantly, have a
look at some of our major trading banks. I mean,
where will we be banking in future? Because the vast
bulk of the trading banks around the world have investments
and sort of funds with companies that you might think
a dodgy or might argue one way or the other.
In the end here that we've got potholes, we've got
parks that need to be looked after, we've got foot
(09:28):
baths that need to be laid, and we've got a
bloody rate increase that keeps coming up and up in it.
And if the government's going to come in and put
a rates cap on us, then why I just said,
why don't we stick to what is our core role
and function and keep our bloody nose out of everything else?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Quite right, Gareth, Can you mount an argument for why
Auckland Council has to spend money doing this?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah, because I think Auckland Council Auckland is kiwis. We
are a country that believe in the rule of law.
We don't want to trade with those committing war crimes
or in this case, genocide. We don't want to buying
products from a legal occupied region. I think citizens want
to know that their rate payer money isn't contributing towards
causing harm, which was so egregious and wrong on the
(10:10):
other side of the world. So it could be a
I don't imagine it's a huge amount of money but
it can actually save money. If their trading was occupied territories,
they can stop that.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
But here the try doing the trace and track. So
many companies have subsidiaries and mothership companies and contracts somewhere else.
You can spend your whole bloody life trying a trace
and track to work out who's associated with what, and
I double dog there you to find a single major
trading bank that hasn't got something going on. And if
we're going to say they're all excluded there, where do
(10:44):
we even bank?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah? Garris, would you like to reply to that?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Well, I just think Auckland councils should probably be buying
more from Auckland businesses and spending money locally. That's probably
the easiest solution.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Or you've I've done all of the good work you
did with the your Portucky rugby game. Now I'm just crossing. Okay, guys,
have a good afternoon. Thank you so much, Morris Williamson, Gareth.
Here's a Hudle this evening.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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