March 5, 2026 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union and former Green MP Gareth Hughes joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
The Government is looking to possibly scrap the Clean Car Standard, and a review is under way. Do we think this is likely to go ahead?
Trade Me is ditching their 'success fees' and bank transfers as part of a new overhaul. Do we think this is a good idea? Do we prefer Facebook Marketplace anyway?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the huddle with me. This evening got Jordan Williams
Taxpayers Union and Gareth Hughes, who is the director of
the Well Being Economy Alliance and of course a former
Green MP. Hello you two, Gareth A you worried about
like seriously? Right, seriously? Are you worried about the scrapping
of the clean car standards?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I am? I mean why on earth would we want
to be alongside Russias two of the only country.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
But we're not actually going to do We're not really
going to do it though, are we.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Well, it would be ridiculous not to. I mean it
would fail basic economic common sense and ultimately lead consumers
to pay more. So I don't know why on if
you're wasting time you know, consulting on this particular question.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Jordan, go oh come on mate. You know how the
ETS works, don't you. Doesn't actually lead to any that
this screen car doescat well. Clean car regulations don't actually
reduce the number of emissions. And if you're seriously think
the government saying you have to import cars of ex
standard doesn't make it more expensive for consumers. I meant
(01:00):
you know that's not since on stilts the whole thing
that annoys me with this is it's this illusion of action,
and to compare us with Russia is just come on,
you're better than that. New Zealand has a comprehensive emissions
trading system that is a cap and trade. For every
extra emission that you have on the road, it has
(01:21):
to come from somewhere else. So if you pay more
to reduce transport emissions, it simply frees up carbon credits
or makes them cheaper for emissions elsewhere. It's a total
false economy. It really grates me these lobbyists that get
in the media and say, oh, you know, this is
(01:41):
bad for the environ It's going to mean that more
emissions and things like that. It is simply not true.
And actually you've got to call it out because this
is actually why New Zealand is poor. We have these
regulations that make it more costly to live for consumers
and it actually does nothing for the environment.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Garas, can you respond.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
To that, Yeah, this is kind of the logic that
we should invest billions and charge electricity consumers to build
now in g terminal high upfront costs, high ongoing costs
as you import these expensive and increasingly expensive fossil fuels,
where we've got cheap soul of power that we could
be using. This is the same false equivalency that Jordan's using.
You know, if we have more efficient vehicles, they're going
(02:24):
to be cheaper for consumers to use. We've got one
of the oldest, most least efficient vehicle fleets. And it's
not me comparing it to Russia. This is the Motor
Industry Association pointing out that almost every other advanced economy
in the OECD except US in Russia would be doing this.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Children.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
It's not a smart step at all.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
That Russia thing is a fact, and that is why
this government will not get rid of it all together,
right because it would it would be the climate lovies
will absolutely hammer.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Them for it. We are unable to we are unable
to import age Japanese cars and as a result, we
have even older cars left on the road. Because it's
all very well for the three of us having this conversation,
but for if you're in his islander on the minimum
or even average way and you're struggling to fill your
tank as it is, you want an affordable car. The
(03:18):
fact is politicians coming in saying we need rolls Royce
standards and we know best and that over the lifetime
of the car or what are according to our modeling.
Don't worry at Sunshine, it's going to be cheaper. Is
not the consumer choice that tends to lead to lower prices.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Jordan, while I've got you, have you guys got a
taxpayers union poll coming out tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yes, we do have a poll tomorrow, heater. I think
it's to be one that's likely to attract a little
bit of attention.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I've heard it's bad for national is it?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I couldn't be possibly comment. As a habit, we give
the heads up to the various politicians and parties and
party leaders as a courtesy before poll has made public.
But I based on the journalists calling me today, I
suspect there'll be a few eyes on end boxes in
the morning.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Okay, give me get one to five out of out
of five. How bad is it for the nets?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Heither it's been It's been a tough few weeks for that.
There's no se it has been a tough few weeks
for the government. This pole may or may not reflect that.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Okay, all right, we'll take a break, come back to
you guys shortly. You're back with the huddle Gareth Hughes
and Jordan Williams. Gareth, you still using trade me?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
No, I can't remember the last time I used it,
but I do have my kids swing, which they've outgrown,
which you know, I see the changes with the success see,
so yeah, I mostly use the Facebook marketplace. Maybe I'll
use trade me.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
No, I hang on, let's work this out for you.
How much do you reckn you get for that swing? Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I'm going to give it a spray paint. So I
reckon a couple of hundred bucks.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You've been on k March see if they can what
they're charging for a swing?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I know it's quite ridiculous. This is a beautiful
old metal and what one so?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Okay? Quite much?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
A couple of hundred You might actually I reckon a
couple of hundred bucks. I might make the effort. Jordan,
what about you?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I love Garrett now us being so might swing can
call up now to make my reading of this. Emily's
the trader in our household. She's much fier at this
sort of thing. But I think it's all Facebook marketplace now,
which I mean there's there's obviously some dodgy stuff on there,
but I don't think it has any fees or any
(05:28):
success fees, and I suspect this is simply trade me
having to adjust their pitch to reflect the huge volume
of people that are now use news Facebook.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
What are you people selling on Facebook marketplace?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Jordan? Oh, my kids are always impeccably dressed, and them
seems to be able to sell the kid's clothes more
than she paid for them. She spots them, she spots
a bargain. I'm very, very lucky. Oh, that's good.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I see both. You're both economically minded, so that's good. Gareth,
I have come to the conclusion I've reached. I didn't
want to reach this point, but I've reached the point
where I think that rural families will have to pay
for their own school buses if there are not enough
family in the area to justify a school bus.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
What do you think, well, I think we're particularly talking
about the case in the region. I'm from Tartarfidy Gisborne,
and you know this is I think outrageous. They've been
given seven weeks notice they might end up having to
travel two hours round trip because the school bus service
is being dropped without consultation. You know, it's just a
bureaucrat lead process. So look, we need to have a
(06:31):
national conversation about this, so we can't just.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Spring it on rural seven weeks not enough, Gareth, No, when.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
You're you know, the school years only just started. I
mean these are people who are working hard on farms
and in rural communities. This is going to you know,
two hours extra out of their day is going to
have a huge impact on their lives.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well, I with the ruthless efficiency of a working mother, Jordan,
I was like, don't worry, I can sort out a
bus in seven weeks for everyone. Am I being unrealistic?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, I'm going to go with socialists and squitchy here
and and agree with Gareth. I mean part of part
of New Zealand in many ways is cross subsidizing rural communities.
Obviously roads, school buses is another one. I think it's
a I think it is pretty and actually it's a
false economy. If kids can't go to the local rural
(07:20):
skill or the not so local rural skills it's a
couple of hours away. It will mean more kids have
to board in town. It is more expensive.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Fair point that you make, Jordan talk to me about
this Kumita patch thing. How did we spend one hundred
and sixty thousand dollars on a Comita patch.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Well, I've only seen the information from Jordan's newsletter as
he's come out, so I'd love to wait to see
all the information and how this National Science Challenge the
results are being found. But you know, from what I
can see, this is not so much about growing a
patch of coumitter. It's around the process and the history
and the culture, which I think is an important subject
(07:58):
for New Zealand to be looking into. This is ultimately
our history, and to be honest, I'm a little bit
disappointed about this because you know, I think we should
be celebrating Maori science matsadanga and actually there's much bigger
fish to fry. We've got half the OECD average spend
as part of our economy percentage than the rest of
(08:18):
the OECD. Fonterra has a let a skill spend of
R and D. Being such a major exporter and player
in our economy, we should be focusing on actually increasing
our investment in science. Will stop, not trying to attack
these very small amounts of legitimate science.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Come on, Garrett, but that the problem is we're not
putting enough money into science and you're seriously because look
the reason why it's going different. You can make the
argument that's spending one hundred and fifty six thousand dollars
on a three meter by three meter coumbra patch and
studying about that the role of Wahimi Maori woman is
(08:56):
to team the garden. We should be studying and promoting.
You can argue that that's all good value. I wouldn't,
but you can. But you were using money. There is
reserved supposed to be reserved for the krem de la creme,
New Zealand's best scientific minds to solve the science in
the national Science challenges. And the reason this story came
(09:19):
about is because and it's taken nearly a year to
get this out of the public agencies, is because of
when we discovered that we were paying millions to record whales, sound,
remix them, play them to forests on the basis of
the myths, the myths that the cali is the brother
(09:42):
of the sperm whale. And you can say, oh, well,
I mean maybe we should be doing that as part
of some cultural exercise, but this is money for science.
I do not understand with the strength face how you
can say the problem is in the OECD we're not
spending enough on research development, and yet in the same
breath you can justfend search and development money being used
for that. I'm sorry. There is a role for maldi
(10:06):
knowledge that is not being what it's been used for,
which is literally replaced so called colonial science. That's what
the text Paers Union is pointing out and believing we've
got more. Unfortunately we've got This is just one of
a series of stories of this sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
We'll be keeping our eyes open for those. Jordan, thanks
very much, and Gareth Hughes as well. Jordan Williams, Gareth hugh'
our hudle this evening. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,
listen live to news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
On the huddle with me. This evening got Jordan Williams
Taxpayers Union and Gareth Hughes, who is the director of
the Well Being Economy Alliance and of course a former
Green MP. Hello you two, Gareth A you worried about
like seriously? Right, seriously? Are you worried about the scrapping
of the clean car standards?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I am? I mean why on earth would we want
to be alongside Russias two of the only country.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
But we're not actually going to do We're not really
going to do it though, are we.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Well, it would be ridiculous not to. I mean it
would fail basic economic common sense and ultimately lead consumers
to pay more. So I don't know why on if
you're wasting time you know, consulting on this particular question.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Jordan, go oh come on mate. You know how the
ETS works, don't you. Doesn't actually lead to any that
this screen car doescat well. Clean car regulations don't actually
reduce the number of emissions. And if you're seriously think
the government saying you have to import cars of ex
standard doesn't make it more expensive for consumers. I meant
(01:00):
you know that's not since on stilts the whole thing
that annoys me with this is it's this illusion of action,
and to compare us with Russia is just come on,
you're better than that. New Zealand has a comprehensive emissions
trading system that is a cap and trade. For every
extra emission that you have on the road, it has
(01:21):
to come from somewhere else. So if you pay more
to reduce transport emissions, it simply frees up carbon credits
or makes them cheaper for emissions elsewhere. It's a total
false economy. It really grates me these lobbyists that get
in the media and say, oh, you know, this is
(01:41):
bad for the environ It's going to mean that more
emissions and things like that. It is simply not true.
And actually you've got to call it out because this
is actually why New Zealand is poor. We have these
regulations that make it more costly to live for consumers
and it actually does nothing for the environment.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Garas, can you respond.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
To that, Yeah, this is kind of the logic that
we should invest billions and charge electricity consumers to build
now in g terminal high upfront costs, high ongoing costs
as you import these expensive and increasingly expensive fossil fuels,
where we've got cheap soul of power that we could
be using. This is the same false equivalency that Jordan's using.
You know, if we have more efficient vehicles, they're going
(02:24):
to be cheaper for consumers to use. We've got one
of the oldest, most least efficient vehicle fleets. And it's
not me comparing it to Russia. This is the Motor
Industry Association pointing out that almost every other advanced economy
in the OECD except US in Russia would be doing this.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Children.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
It's not a smart step at all.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
That Russia thing is a fact, and that is why
this government will not get rid of it all together,
right because it would it would be the climate lovies
will absolutely hammer.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Them for it. We are unable to we are unable
to import age Japanese cars and as a result, we
have even older cars left on the road. Because it's
all very well for the three of us having this conversation,
but for if you're in his islander on the minimum
or even average way and you're struggling to fill your
tank as it is, you want an affordable car. The
(03:18):
fact is politicians coming in saying we need rolls Royce
standards and we know best and that over the lifetime
of the car or what are according to our modeling.
Don't worry at Sunshine, it's going to be cheaper. Is
not the consumer choice that tends to lead to lower prices.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Jordan, while I've got you, have you guys got a
taxpayers union poll coming out tomorrow?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yes, we do have a poll tomorrow, heater. I think
it's to be one that's likely to attract a little
bit of attention.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I've heard it's bad for national is it?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I couldn't be possibly comment. As a habit, we give
the heads up to the various politicians and parties and
party leaders as a courtesy before poll has made public.
But I based on the journalists calling me today, I
suspect there'll be a few eyes on end boxes in
the morning.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Okay, give me get one to five out of out
of five. How bad is it for the nets?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Heither it's been It's been a tough few weeks for that.
There's no se it has been a tough few weeks
for the government. This pole may or may not reflect that.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Okay, all right, we'll take a break, come back to
you guys shortly. You're back with the huddle Gareth Hughes
and Jordan Williams. Gareth, you still using trade me?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
No, I can't remember the last time I used it,
but I do have my kids swing, which they've outgrown,
which you know, I see the changes with the success see,
so yeah, I mostly use the Facebook marketplace. Maybe I'll
use trade me.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
No, I hang on, let's work this out for you.
How much do you reckn you get for that swing? Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I'm going to give it a spray paint. So I
reckon a couple of hundred bucks.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You've been on k March see if they can what
they're charging for a swing?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I know it's quite ridiculous. This is a beautiful
old metal and what one so?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Okay? Quite much?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
A couple of hundred You might actually I reckon a
couple of hundred bucks. I might make the effort. Jordan,
what about you?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I love Garrett now us being so might swing can
call up now to make my reading of this. Emily's
the trader in our household. She's much fier at this
sort of thing. But I think it's all Facebook marketplace now,
which I mean there's there's obviously some dodgy stuff on there,
but I don't think it has any fees or any
(05:28):
success fees, and I suspect this is simply trade me
having to adjust their pitch to reflect the huge volume
of people that are now use news Facebook.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
What are you people selling on Facebook marketplace?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Jordan? Oh, my kids are always impeccably dressed, and them
seems to be able to sell the kid's clothes more
than she paid for them. She spots them, she spots
a bargain. I'm very, very lucky. Oh, that's good.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I see both. You're both economically minded, so that's good. Gareth,
I have come to the conclusion I've reached. I didn't
want to reach this point, but I've reached the point
where I think that rural families will have to pay
for their own school buses if there are not enough
family in the area to justify a school bus.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
What do you think, well, I think we're particularly talking
about the case in the region. I'm from Tartarfidy Gisborne,
and you know this is I think outrageous. They've been
given seven weeks notice they might end up having to
travel two hours round trip because the school bus service
is being dropped without consultation. You know, it's just a
bureaucrat lead process. So look, we need to have a
(06:31):
national conversation about this, so we can't just.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Spring it on rural seven weeks not enough, Gareth, No, when.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
You're you know, the school years only just started. I
mean these are people who are working hard on farms
and in rural communities. This is going to you know,
two hours extra out of their day is going to
have a huge impact on their lives.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Well, I with the ruthless efficiency of a working mother, Jordan,
I was like, don't worry, I can sort out a
bus in seven weeks for everyone. Am I being unrealistic?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, I'm going to go with socialists and squitchy here
and and agree with Gareth. I mean part of part
of New Zealand in many ways is cross subsidizing rural communities.
Obviously roads, school buses is another one. I think it's
a I think it is pretty and actually it's a
false economy. If kids can't go to the local rural
(07:20):
skill or the not so local rural skills it's a
couple of hours away. It will mean more kids have
to board in town. It is more expensive.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Fair point that you make, Jordan talk to me about
this Kumita patch thing. How did we spend one hundred
and sixty thousand dollars on a Comita patch.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Well, I've only seen the information from Jordan's newsletter as
he's come out, so I'd love to wait to see
all the information and how this National Science Challenge the
results are being found. But you know, from what I
can see, this is not so much about growing a
patch of coumitter. It's around the process and the history
and the culture, which I think is an important subject
(07:58):
for New Zealand to be looking into. This is ultimately
our history, and to be honest, I'm a little bit
disappointed about this because you know, I think we should
be celebrating Maori science matsadanga and actually there's much bigger
fish to fry. We've got half the OECD average spend
as part of our economy percentage than the rest of
(08:18):
the OECD. Fonterra has a let a skill spend of
R and D. Being such a major exporter and player
in our economy, we should be focusing on actually increasing
our investment in science. Will stop, not trying to attack
these very small amounts of legitimate science.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Come on, Garrett, but that the problem is we're not
putting enough money into science and you're seriously because look
the reason why it's going different. You can make the
argument that's spending one hundred and fifty six thousand dollars
on a three meter by three meter coumbra patch and
studying about that the role of Wahimi Maori woman is
(08:56):
to team the garden. We should be studying and promoting.
You can argue that that's all good value. I wouldn't,
but you can. But you were using money. There is
reserved supposed to be reserved for the krem de la creme,
New Zealand's best scientific minds to solve the science in
the national Science challenges. And the reason this story came
(09:19):
about is because and it's taken nearly a year to
get this out of the public agencies, is because of
when we discovered that we were paying millions to record whales, sound,
remix them, play them to forests on the basis of
the myths, the myths that the cali is the brother
(09:42):
of the sperm whale. And you can say, oh, well,
I mean maybe we should be doing that as part
of some cultural exercise, but this is money for science.
I do not understand with the strength face how you
can say the problem is in the OECD we're not
spending enough on research development, and yet in the same
breath you can justfend search and development money being used
for that. I'm sorry. There is a role for maldi
(10:06):
knowledge that is not being what it's been used for,
which is literally replaced so called colonial science. That's what
the text Paers Union is pointing out and believing we've
got more. Unfortunately we've got This is just one of
a series of stories of this sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
We'll be keeping our eyes open for those. Jordan, thanks
very much, and Gareth Hughes as well. Jordan Williams, Gareth hugh'
our hudle this evening. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,
listen live to news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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